Realistic Mafia - Game Over

[Natirasha]

EBWOP: I just tied up Hjallti, so he can't attack us. Better safe than sorry.

[Surye]

EBWOP: I just tied up Hjallti, so he can't attack us. Better safe than sorry.

I tried that with Awesome Pants, mod told me I couldn't do it alone (He also thought it was such a silly request, I must have meant to shoot him ;P) So don't feel safe yet.

[Natirasha]

Well, why don't you join me in tying him up then, Suyre?

[armlx]

I already sent the assisting PM. Better to let the mayor not be involved for safety reasons.

[Hjallti]

I don't like to this because my PM clearly implies that doing this reduces me to vanilla. Aparently the 'claim not matter what' goes above 'claim sensible' as town. I always promoted the latter, but armlx is in this game apparently more trustworthy than myself.

It is not pro-town at all to demand a full claim no matter what, but I will be better for town as vanilla than as corpse so I will.

I am a federal cop, not connected or depended of the local mayor. I can perform some night actions but need the help of my authority. I managed to get a device to listen into the house of ABR (sorry for my english). In the beginning of the last night I got the result back from my federal lab connecting ABR, Dasquian and Celebloki. Considering I was at that moment no way sure to survive I decided to vig him immediatly. My authority will deny and stop every connection on my claim, which makes me pretty unconfirmable apart from my vigging last night.

FoS: armlx

[armlx]

Don't believe a word of it. Kill plz.

[Hjallti]

tunneling this way is a huge scumtell!

[armlx]

Stalling on a claim is a huge scum tell.

[Natirasha]

Just sent the order to kill Hjallti.

[Crub]

Wow I fully doubt Hjallti is scum.

[Hjallti]

The reason I stalled on my claim is quiet simple and already explained. The moment I claim (that I have federal (outside) resources to do/help my night actions) it will be denied and more importantly

they

will stop helping me. Due to armlx tunneling I will no longer be able to use my powers other than a vanilla townie. Note that if I had claimed under the pressure yesterday I could have well claimed vanilla, because I wouldn't have had my report back linking ABR to Celebloki.

If I was scum, why didn't I kill noone last day? Dripping could have hammered instead of letting me survive. i could have done what BM, ABR and Dripping did before me, isn't it? I can't see a single reason why a scum wouldn't go for that extra kill.

Since I have no certaintity that armlx and his buddies let me live through the weekend, I will take the time to address some topics without enough backing or urgency but just because it may help town later.

On the Dripping and Natirasha reports, I would guess they didn't investigate but went talking to eachother and showed there mutual badge.
In the townie pm first page there is a seperate night action:

(2) Try to visit a neighbor and strike up a friendship

On the dirty cop issue I want to come back. The reason I do believe like I expressed yesterday we have a dirty cop is that we have to many cops including myself. I couldn't use that argument yesterday anyway. With the number of cops indicated without counting me, and having them with the same powers I could see the game balanced with 3 player scum teams copless, but this is way over it. My other angel gives (as shown) to much extra power to town. Otherwise we are at this point down to finding the last goon! (10-1)

The problems I have with any theory about cops being dirty and number of scum is basically balance: I would expect Corsica-Sicily to be equally strong. This would mean that if there is dirty cop Corsica would have at least a fourth scumbag: either a dirty cop itself or 4th goon to compensate the dirty cop of Sicily. (In the former case Sicily would also have 4 scumbags, or to compensate a dirty mayor (at this moment I don't believe Surye to be scum).)

Ofcourse 3 scum teams of which one is a twoheaded dirtycop team, or even a dirty cop SK, could also be noteworthy.

Are these only rumours or is our mod trying to tell something?

There are more and more rumours there seems to be a third syndicate around the town, but if it's true, we will let you know as soon as possible.

and to answer armlx again:
I don't know what you exactly mean with stalling on a claim, but I don't think that in anyway this ranks higher in the scumtell list as tunneling and hypocrisy.

L-2, claim and or die.

you never meant anything else than claim AND die, did you?

For claiming, halfclaiming, stalling on a claim, it is up to the claimee to decide what to do. Apparently some players think it is a holy rule that you should claim but is not.

[Surye]

Just sent the order to kill Hjallti.

You didn't think the claim was reason to wait and discuss a bit? Honestly I think I believe it, or at least, it's not completely unbelievable.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Natirasha pulled out is gun and totally shot Hjallti to hell. Good job, since Hjallti was not in the towns best interest

Hjallti, a Sicilian Goon, killed during day 3

[armlx]

The reason I stalled on my claim is quiet simple and already explained. The moment I claim (that I have federal (outside) resources to do/help my night actions) it will be denied and more importantly

they

will stop helping me. Due to armlx tunneling I will no longer be able to use my powers other than a vanilla townie.

Appeal to emotion. In the scenario of lynch/death or claim and lose ability townies ALWAYS claim as either way the town loses the ability. Sorry, your attempt to blame this on me fails.

If I was scum, why didn't I kill noone last day? Dripping could have hammered instead of letting me survive. i could have done what BM, ABR and Dripping did before me, isn't it? I can't see a single reason why a scum wouldn't go for that extra kill.

Oh hi, I'm WIFOM and based on faulty logic as we only expect there to be 1 more scum in a group, which means they wouldn't suicide kill as their survival is the only way to win.

[quote[
On the dirty cop issue I want to come back. The reason I do believe like I expressed yesterday we have a dirty cop is that we have to many cops including myself. I couldn't use that argument yesterday anyway. With the number of cops indicated without counting me, and having them with the same powers I could see the game balanced with 3 player scum teams copless, but this is way over it. My other angel gives (as shown) to much extra power to town. Otherwise we are at this point down to finding the last goon! (10-1)[/quote]

So, you are saying if you are town, the game would be unbalanced at 3/3? Hmm, sounds like the simple scenario is YOU AREN'T.

Are these only rumours or is our mod trying to tell something?

There are more and more rumours there seems to be a third syndicate around the town, but if it's true, we will let you know as soon as possible.

There also was a story about the mafia recruiting. I doubt some of these to say the least.

and to answer armlx again:
I don't know what you exactly mean with stalling on a claim, but I don't think that in anyway this ranks higher in the scumtell list as tunneling and hypocrisy.

Stalling on a claim means refusing to claim in a lynch/claim scenario, often on the same basis of your claim (losing ability on claim). I would say 75% of the time its scum trying to get out of claiming or trying to stall for time to think. As for tunneling and hypocrisy, show me where I did either of those.

L-2, claim and or die.

you never meant anything else than claim AND die, did you?

I used to say claim or die, but too often it just became claim and die. So I amended it.

For claiming, halfclaiming, stalling on a claim, it is up to the claimee to decide what to do. Apparently some players think it is a holy rule that you should claim but is not.

In no way is the the claimee's decision when they are at L-1 with people unvoting so they don't self hammer. You not claiming can only lead to a town mislynch if you are town, you claiming at worst leads to your night kill. Being NK'ed >>>> mislynch. Do the math.

[Surye]

Okay, this day vig hammer thing is awesome. Even if we were wrong, I really like having information.

Okay, so as Hjallti put it himself, we have a third group, or likely one more Corsacin and Sicilian. I'm leaning third group, but SK? We need to remember these ideas came from a known scum, so grain of salt, but we're clearly not done here.

[armlx]

Stalling on a claim means refusing to claim in a lynch/claim scenario, often on the same basis of your claim (losing ability on claim). I would say 75% of the time its scum trying to get out of claiming or trying to stall for time to think.

Holds true yet again.

I doubt the last scum group/person is a Sicilian, based on Kscope's D2 flavor of "decreased recruitments". Possibly a 4th Corsican, more likely SK. Doubt its a 3rd full group as odds are we would have hit one by now if that was true.

Something to consider here is whether going to night so we can get more info about the last group and cop investigations and what not is better than trying to lynch people based on guesses at what the scum group is.

[Natirasha]

So...
3 Scicillian dead.
3 Corsican Dead.

With this many cops, I'd assume that there are ~2 more in each group?

I'm not too sure we should go to night yet. Who else is on our list of non-cop, non-mayors(since we cannot consider our investigations to work, now).



10. Sensfan
15. armlx
16. Ghostwriter
18. NabakovNabakov
21. Crub
23. Sykedoc
25. Singing Librarian

Of these, I doubt that Armlx are scum, along with Nabakov(the first due to his constant pro-towness, the second because two seperate cops investigated him and got innocent, the first night one).


10. Sensfan
16. Ghostwriter
21. Crub
23. Sykedoc
25. Singing Librarian

Of these five, I believe that SL is the one we need to take a look at. Anyone object?

[Natirasha]

EBWOP: DGB just confirmed himself scum in our daychat. I've already sent the order.

[Surye]

EBWOP: DGB just confirmed himself scum in our daychat. I've already sent the order.

What the hell? Clarify what happened please?

And I knew something was off with DGB. Who finds a death miller more likely then a corrupt cop that can change reports?

[Natirasha]

It was something like this.

DGB:Alright, what PM did you get last night.
Me: [My N2 PM] What's yours?
DGB: [Her PM]
Me: K. Looks like it's a minor difference, I wouldn't think much of it.
DGB: Agreed. I think we should investigate Suyre.
Me: Alright[I was playing along, I was suspicious at this point].
DGB: You should find the third cop and tell me, I'll investigate Suyre.[At this point, I was even more suspicious on the sheer fact, you know, she wanted to investigate Suyre, not together or anything. I thought it was a thinly veiled attempt to kill Suyre. Plus, she wanted the identity of the third cop.]
Me: Alright, we're doing this tonight?
DGB: Yes. Also, there's something I haven't told anyone else.
Me: What's that?
DGB: My actual role is that of a spy. I'm not sure what the differences are.[I knew this was scum, at this point. I sent the request then. The data adds up far too much to point to not being scum]

[Natirasha]

EBWOP: and in case it matters, that was paraphrased.

[NabakovNabakov]

Well this game is moving along quickly.

It seems DGB is likely one (only?) corrupt cop (I was wondering why everybody was putting all the cops on our "confirmed" lists when it's fairly obvious at least one is corrupt).

A lot of the deaths in this game have seemed too good to be true, and I guess a huge police department could provide for high levels of scum, but I just keep getting this sneaking suspicion that card flips are being somehow distorted. Maybe there's a scum role that can change them, or maybe they just show up as they are expected (if the town lynches/dayvigs, the expectation is that the lynchee is going to be scum) unless the matter is actually investigated.

[DrippingGoofball]

Nat, I am not pleased at the liberty you have taken in relating our exchange, in particular, you quote me as allegedly saying:

"Yes. Also, there's something I haven't told anyone else."

I never, ever said anything resembling this.

In fact, I hinted, earlier in thread, that I am not a cop. Check: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 00#1042600 where I wrote "For the record, my rolename is not "cop." "

So this is absolutely not something that "I haven't told anyone else" as you misleadingly suggest, but something that's been out in the open for several days.

Also, you claim that I wrote: "You should find the third cop and tell me" but I did not say "AND TELL ME." And I said MAYBE you should find the third cop while I investigate Surye. I was trying to see what our best options are.

I had sent you my role PM, but I no longer trust you. I deleted it from my outbox.

The rest is essentially correct, but the discrepancies, along with the gratuitous accusations, disturb me.

[DrippingGoofball]

It seems DGB is likely one (only?) corrupt cop (I was wondering why everybody was putting all the cops on our "confirmed" lists when it's fairly obvious at least one is corrupt).

NabNab, I am no corrupt cop. The corrupt cop, if there is one, is not me. If you read carefully and look at the facts, I don't think any of what Natirisha reports is damning, but her interpretation is outlandish and overexcited.

[NabakovNabakov]

It seems DGB is likely one (only?) corrupt cop (I was wondering why everybody was putting all the cops on our "confirmed" lists when it's fairly obvious at least one is corrupt).

NabNab, I am no corrupt cop. The corrupt cop, if there is one, is not me. If you read carefully and look at the facts, I don't think any of what Natirisha reports is damning, but her interpretation is outlandish and overexcited.

*Shrug* Not much I can do about it at this point. As I understand it, Nat already sent the kill order.

If you're really a protown role, you should probably claim fully with any information you might have.