Mature Mafia: Game Over

[mathcam]

Ack. That was DGB, not Adel. I was so overcome with frustration at DGB that I lashed out at an innocent victim. My apologies.

Cam

[mathcam]

Just in case DGB doesn't believe me:

The whole point (and I can't seem to emphasize this enough) of separating alignments from roles is to make the claiming of one's role significantly less important than it is in other games.

There is nothing in my role that could be used to determine if I was scum or not.

DGB: If you were going to be so upset that my role didn't provided any information on my alignment, WHY OH WHY did you not stop pushing for it after I repeatedly explained this precise fact to you?

For my own sanity, I am

begging

you to answer this question.

Cam

[Glork]

Pssst.


It's 'cause she's scum.

[Adel]

cripes Glork, micro text is usually a no-no as well.

[Glork]

I couldn't help myself.

Plus, I don't consider it a no-no in my games. It is most certainly visible (especially when it is the only content of any given post).

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No those 2 statements are not the same except for tense.

one explicitly mentions alignment, the other does not.

[Coron]

No those 2 statements are not the same except for tense.

one explicitly mentions alignment, the other does not.

How can a claim of "protown" be anything other than an alignment claim? I don't understand.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

When a player "claims protown" or "claims to be protown"

The general assumption is that he is claiming to be in the protown side of the game, it is generally assumed that all players are "claiming protown" as to do otherwise would be fairly silly.

This is a general attitude, that one is "protown" in the sense that one is aligned with the town.

What cam wrote was:

On a related note, I'm very suspicious of Glork, raj, and DGB for pushing for a claim. In my role PM, there is a very clearly delineated difference between my alignment and my role. There's no doubt that I will claim pro-town as my alignment, and given that my role is presumably independent of my alignment, I'm not sure what there is to gain from that either. Not only is it therefore bad play to claim (unnecessarily giving away information), it's also scummy to push for a claim. It's also possible that the scum role/alignment structure is set up differently, and thus that scum didn't know how worthless it would be to push for a claim. Raj is the scummiest of those three, so he gets my vote.

It is clear from that quote that he is not talking about an alignment in the general sense of the word alignment but specifically related to the alignment section of his role PM and making an observation of a clear difference between that section and the "role" section of the PM.

As a result he is saying that he is claiming "protown" as his "alignment" but alignment in this sense is not alignment in terms of the overall game but alignment as in the alignment section of the role PM.

This is a fundamentally different statement than saying that you are aligned with protown forces.

This is also a statement that hints severely at Cam's guilt.

[mathcam]

Alignment in terms of the overall game is the same as in the alignment section of the role PM. In this game, you are aligned with protown forces if and only if the alignment section of the role PM indicates that you are pro-town. They are the same.

Pssst. It's 'cause she's scum.

I've long since learned that I cannot tell the difference between a scum DGB driving me crazy and a town DGB crazy, primarily since by the time I realize what she's doing, I'm crazy and slowly becoming incapable of rational thought. In this case, I don't actually think that her pestering me is scummy, though the pushing for the role claim in the first place still strikes me as somewhat off.

Cam

[Axelrod]

Mathcam, I don't care that you are a "replacer" (which it's nice you do not choose to elaborate on - is it exactly what it sounds like and no more). I don't care that you don't want to quote a specific word from your PM. I am not interested in arguing about ethics and whether or not claiming "pro-town" is the same thing as saying that your alignment is pro-town.

This is what I want to know: Aside from your role of "Replacer", are you anything else? Anything traditionally Mafia related? Or are you otherwise "Vanilla" as zu_Faul appeared to claim before his post was edited.

[mathcam]

I think someone just deleted my last post.

I don't feel like retyping it, so the answers to your questions are no, no, and yes.

Cam

[Axelrod]

Well, that was like pulling teeth.

Now to decide if I believe it or not....

[Glork]

I do.

*shrug*

[Axelrod]

Well, I'll put it this way - had he claimed some kind of "extra" Mafia-related ability I would have voted him till he was dead. So he managed to do that correctly. This does not make him town though. Still feels like he was being very evasive before.

[Glork]

Incidentally, I'd give at least 25% that this is a 12-2 Mountainous setup (aside from modpowers, obv). I'm still trying to assess balance, given all that has happened.

[Axelrod]

Also, Glork:

Are you taking the position that these things are also useless and pointless to claim? That we cannot learn anything?

I'm pretty sure I have a very relevant response to this, but I'll wait for Cam to answer first.

What was your "very relevant" response?

[Glork]

Oh. Crap, I don't remember it exactly; should've written it down.

It was along the lines of:

Cam's taking the position that claiming modpowers is pointless. This implies to me that he doesn't have any "regular" powers, which would make him effectively vanilla (if protown).

It all fits in quite nicely with his responses, my own musings on possible game setups, and Cam's language up to that point. One reason I believe Cam is legit is because the "alignment" part obviously tells alignment, but if his only "ability" were the modpower, that'd fit perfectly. You stated that he was "completely ignoring" traditional 'roles,' and the reason for that should already have been painfully obvious -- Cam doesn't have a "traditional role," and he correctly asserts that claiming his modpower will not help anybody discern his alignment. As far as Cam was concerned, "Replacer" was his "traditional role," even if it is rather.... unorthodox.

I suppose it is still possible that his alignment PM said he was mafia and his role PM said he's a Replacer. For some reason, I just find that to be very unlikely right now.

[Macros]

well I'm thoroughly lost, this game is not anything what I expected, the fun value rapidly drained from it and my interest is only maginally above the zero mark.
Are we still on day one?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If you can't deduce this is a vanilla setup from your role PM, then how would cam deduce such a thing that much earlier?

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't understand why mathcam took so long to claim if he was vanilla. I expected a really creative made up roleclaim after making us wait an eternity.

Cam - why did you decide to claim vanilla instead of making a credible fakeclaim?

[rajrhcpfreak]

the point was brought up about revealing all mod powers? is this smart or stupid? shall we do it now or wait for a better time?

[elvis_knits]

I apologize if my suggestion to "cheat" has drained this game of fun for anyone. It was meant in good faith as a means to make the game fair.

I am not suspicious of cam at this point.

[rajrhcpfreak]

im still suspicious of cam.

and just as suspicious of e_k.

[elvis_knits]

Though I am suspicious of raj.

[rajrhcpfreak]

are you for or against claiming mod powers?