Mature Mafia: Game Over

[elvis_knits]

Every one of Adel's interpretations of my post are based on an assumption that I am scum.

You can't assume someone is scum and then read their posts that way. You have to read their posts first and come to the conclusion that they are scum.

FWIW, I would never insult someone as a means of applying psychological pressure. I think it makes the game less fun, and I would never want to do that to anyone.

I object very strongly to personal insults in a game. And I think what Adel has done is much much worse than my possibly horrible suggestion to "cheat" as a means of making the game fair.

[mathcam]

I agree with the rajwagon.

Adel -- Unless I missed it, I was not at all mentioned in that last post, so I'm not sure how I got on the list. This seems to be in strong contrast to last Friday's

The mathcam wagon is a bullshit semi-random (probably fueled by scum) nonsense.

He shouldn't claim since he shouldn't be at lynch -1!

Someone please unvote him, soonest!

Otherwise, I guess he will have to claim, but it shouldn't come to that.

DGB will the "mafia firingsquad" thread as meta-cover is behind this, and I feel she is a much stronger lynch candidate than mathcam is.

It seems like such a drastic change of heart would merit at least one comment.

I would also like to point out to that it's Macros, not Marcos.

Claim:

I'm the replacer.

Cam

[Adel]

This bothers me. Perhaps it's because it feels insincere coming from Adel.

I put players under psychological pressure from time to time, and I don't think I have ever regeretted or apologized for it.

Remind me not to let me drop my game-face around you again.

I think that little pink symbol under her avatar encouraged me to empathize with her more than I usually would, especially since she isn't in my "dumb bitch" category. Those cows I will happily brutalize all day long. Keep in mind I was in the military for several years, and today I work at a power plant that has an even more lop-sided male:female ratio, and I think she really was taking my insults to heart. If she were male I don't think I'd have second thoughts about it.

Plus, I think I just broke this game for us, and there is no point in rubbing additional salt into her wounds.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Ah but cam, you did make it a relevant part of your play when you decided to claim "protown" as your alignment.

We did not bing wording up, that was your action when you said you would clearly claim "protown" as your alignment.

We aren't cheating or playing outside the rules because we did not open that door, you did when you partially claimed.

If a scumbag claims townie and sights the wrong type of wording for his role PM, he can hardly accuse the town of cheating when they call him out on it and lynch him for it.

[Adel]

I agree with the rajwagon.

Adel -- Unless I missed it, I was not at all mentioned in that last post, so I'm not sure how I got on the list. This seems to be in strong contrast to last Friday's

while I don't like the way your partner bussed you, they proved in my mind that you didn't know the right word to drop. I think it was a bullshit wagon that happened to be accurate. 1/4 or so random wagons are going to be.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

And I do believe asking for the last letter or the specific word of the role PM is highly unethical.

However lynching based upon something volunteerarily coughed up by the suspect in question that seems to not jive with the information one has at hand. I do believe that is perfectly ethical.

[mathcam]

We aren't cheating or playing outside the rules because we did not open that door, you did when you partially claimed.

You're seriously arguing that it's cheating to claim that you're pro-town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no im saying you opened the door.

Im not saying you cheated

[Adel]

We aren't cheating or playing outside the rules because we did not open that door, you did when you partially claimed.

You're seriously arguing that it's cheating to claim that you're pro-town?

I have trouble believing that is a sincere objection.

you could've immediate said something to the effect of "pro-town is a proxy for the word in my role pm".

Anyhow, there are four or five players who I think acted in an unethical manner by asking your for the precise word, or a letter, or whatever.

~~~

@elvis: I doubt there is anything approaching a consensus rejecting psychological pressure as ethical play. FTR, I don't consider what you did to be unethical either, since you figured it out honestly.

[mathcam]

Ah, okay. I mis-parsed

We aren't cheating or playing outside the rules because we did not open that door, you did when you partially claimed.

You meant "You did open" and not "you did cheat." Still, there seems to be the implication that whoever opened the door was cheating or playing outside the rules. In any case, never mind.

Nonetheless, claiming pro-town is just about the most generic thing one can possibly do. I implicitly assume everyone is claiming pro-town all the time, and I think it's a stretch to even classify it as a "partial claim." There's also a significant difference between claiming pro-town and saying something like "My role PM says that I'm pro-town."

Cam

[Adel]

I'm really interested in what Macros has to say about all of this.

[DrippingGoofball]

Claim:

I'm the replacer.

That says NOTHING about your alignment.

In other news, Adel's case against Elvis is rubbish, in the same way that Glork's case against Raj is rubbish.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think it was a bullshit wagon that happened to be accurate. 1/4 or so random wagons are going to be.

Well said. That's how I feel about it.

[elvis_knits]

You should not make any post, or start any thread, with the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site. Within a game, criticism of another player's play is acceptable - making it personal is not, and may result in action by the moderator of that game. Outside a game, determination of the intention of the poster will be made by mith, or someone appointed by mith.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you didn't "claim protown"

you wrote :

"There's no doubt that I will claim pro-town as my alignment"

That's a huge difference.

[Adel]

Every one of Adel's interpretations of my post are based on an assumption that I am scum.

You can't assume someone is scum and then read their posts that way. You have to read their posts first and come to the conclusion that they are scum.

I honestly thought that you were a townie acting unethically until I read

I never said (or even suggested) that the wording still existed anywhere. I just stated that it

used to

exist in Zu's original post.

I also think this is important so as not to "confirm" any scumbags who remembered Zu's post (such as whomever edited the post to begin with).

Then I quickly read through the first three pages to see which players, if scum, might have put 2 and 2 together.

You stood out a little, so I read through all of your posts in isolation and had a serious moment of "Eureka!" -- almost enough to go racing naked through the streets of my town.

[elvis_knits]

Adel, so you think that because I remembered zu's post correctly that I must be scum??

[Adel]

You should not make any post, or start any thread, with the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site. Within a game, criticism of another player's play is acceptable - making it personal is not, and may result in action by the moderator of that game. Outside a game, determination of the intention of the poster will be made by mith, or someone appointed by mith.

good point. This is a lesson that will effect my future play.


Did you notice that I apologized? I meant it.

[elvis_knits]

Thank you for apologizing (I mean that too) but your case on me is still BS.

[Adel]

Adel, so you think that because I remembered zu's post correctly that I must be scum??

I quoted all of those lines from you because they collectively establish your guilt. You responded to the lines, then had a second response when you figured out just how literally honest Zu was. And you wrote all of that stuff establishing your position on cheating... and then you pretended to be willing to cheat to lynch scum.

[Adel]

that discrepancy, the difference between being so anti-cheat, and then so pro-cheat, is most easily explained by you writing the anti-cheat passages from your natural scum perspective, and then being willing to cheat from your "town" perspective. You saw your partner in a bind, and so you choose to buss him using a method of convenience.

[Coron]

You should not make any post, or start any thread,

with the intention

of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site.

Within a game, criticism of another player's play is acceptable

- making it personal is not, and may result in action by the moderator of that game. Outside a game, determination of the intention of the poster will be made by mith, or someone appointed by mith.

I'm all for honesty at all times, so if I see you as acting like a scumbag, I will say it, note, that I rarely do anything to ridicule, insult, offend, or upset anyone.

If adel was intending those things, I will honestly say that Adel was at least as much of a scumbag, and if not, honestly Adel didn't do anything wrong.

you didn't "claim protown"

you wrote :

"There's no doubt that I will claim pro-town as my alignment"

That's a huge difference.

...the two things only differ in wording.

Claim:

I'm the replacer.

That says NOTHING about your alignment.

he never said it did?

In other news, Adel's case against Elvis is rubbish, in the same way that Glork's case against Raj is rubbish.

Both are better than most of the things I've seen against Mathcam.

Every one of Adel's interpretations of my post are based on an assumption that I am scum.

You can't assume someone is scum and then read their posts that way. You have to read their posts first and come to the conclusion that they are scum.

Let's say that you'll do something 99% of the time as scum and 60% of the time as town. This is still a tell, so if it is something you'd be VERY likely to do as scum and only somewhat likely to do as town, it can be a tell.

FWIW, I would never insult someone as a means of applying psychological pressure. I think it makes the game less fun, and I would never want to do that to anyone.

Mafia is a psychological game, if not controlling your psychology and analysing everyone else's what is it about? Applying pressure(through voting, FoSing, or any way) is the only way to get results.

[elvis_knits]

Adel, so you think that because I remembered zu's post correctly that I must be scum??

I quoted all of those lines from you because they collectively establish your guilt. You responded to the lines, then had a second response when you figured out just how literally honest Zu was. And you wrote all of that stuff establishing your position on cheating... and then you pretended to be willing to cheat to lynch scum.

I'm really not following...

I responded to what lines with what response and then had a second response which was what? And how do you think it proves that I had some sort of epiphany about zu's original post?

Also, my previous position on cheating was that I didn't think it would happen, and if it did there was nothing we could do about it other than quit the game. So we should just continue to play the game. Well, I thought of something we could do about it. IF we believe the scum is cheating, and IF we are reasonably sure they are, we could consider a type of town cheat -- IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE THE GAME FAIR. It is not cheating just because I want to win.

And you're really framing all my actions in a way that is totally unsupported. "Pretending to be willing to cheat." You have no idea if I was pretending or not, and nothing I have said supports your statement. You're framing everything based on your theory and assumption that I am scum.

[rajrhcpfreak]

Amusingly enough, I'm wondering if we shouldn't

all

claim our modpowers now.

im for it, i dont see any way it can hurt the town or help the mafia.

[mathcam]

That says NOTHING about your alignment.

I spent five pages trying to convince you of this exact fact.

Pooky: Those two things are the same except for tense.

Cam