Mini 547 - Youthville - Abandoned on Day Three!


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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 2:55 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

OhGodMyLife wrote:You express support of a cephrir lynch regardless of his alignment. That is an extremely scummy position to take.
Let me put it this way: he's the scummiest player at this point in the game. Obviously I'd prefer him to be scum than a Miller, but if he
does
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OhGodMyLife wrote:And the way you made sure to tack on that "but I really think he's scum" line at the end makes the whole thing look worse.
...Not really. All I was saying was that while there is a
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 2:58 pm

Post by OhGodMyLife »

I disagree with your assertion that he is the scummiest player at this point.

Qualifying your support for his lynch by trying to make it seem like lynching Cephrirtown wouldn't be bad is scummy any way you spin it, no matter how much you try to speak for the rest of the town.
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 3:53 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

OhGodMyLife wrote:I disagree with your assertion that he is the scummiest player at this point.
OK, now
this
I can accept. What you need to remember, though, is that on matters of opinion one should be careful about labelling the person you're disagreeing with scummy for that reason alone.
OhGodMyLife wrote:Qualifying your support for his lynch by trying to make it seem like lynching Cephrirtown wouldn't be bad is scummy any way you spin it, no matter how much you try to speak for the rest of the town.
We obviously have very different stances on how to deal with Millers. I find them to be nuisances that do nothing but distract the town. When you factor in Ceph's play (which surely you must admit isn't the towniest ever)... I think the risk is worth it.

Also, I never said that a Cephtown lynch wouldn't be bad. Stop putting words in my mouth, thanks.
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 4:44 pm

Post by OhGodMyLife »

You clearly imply that lynching CephrirTheMiller would at the least be an acceptable outcome, which I find exceedingly scummy.

The fact that I disagree with you about the level of Ceph's scumminess is not the part of your post that raised red flags.

I think that if you know you're a miller, claiming so is actually the most pro-town thing you can do. The role is a detriment to the town, meant as a balance to an overabundance of town power. Claiming you're the miller prevents the cop from wasting an investigation on you because he's already been told what the outcome would be.
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 4:49 pm

Post by Cephrir »

Also, I never said that a Cephtown lynch wouldn't be bad. Stop putting words in my mouth, thanks.
If he really is a miller, well, that's a distraction/source of confusion the town most certainly does not need gone.
One of these things is not like the other.

If you could explain why I suddenly have scummy play, that would be super.
Far as I can tell, your case on me is "he claimed Miller", which is awful. I smell oppurtunism.
it wouldn't be any real loss to the town
Losing any town-aligned player is always bad; unless they're a paranoid gun owner death miller who roleblocks all Cops while they're alive, not killing protown people is usually a good idea.
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 4:52 pm

Post by OhGodMyLife »

Cephrir wrote:Far as I can tell, your case on me is "he claimed Miller", which is awful. I smell oppurtunism.
QFT

CyberBob, please do elaborate on what exactly the case against Cephrir is.
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 6:10 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

OhGodMyLife wrote:You clearly imply that lynching CephrirTheMiller would at the least be an acceptable outcome, which I find exceedingly scummy.
OK. As I said, this is due to differences in the way you and I see Millers.
OhGodMyLife wrote:The fact that I disagree with you about the level of Ceph's scumminess is not the part of your post that raised red flags.
No - my position on how a potential miller should be treated is. The two are both matters of personal taste.
OhGodMyLife wrote:I think that if you know you're a miller, claiming so is actually the most pro-town thing you can do. The role is a detriment to the town, meant as a balance to an overabundance of town power. Claiming you're the miller prevents the cop from wasting an investigation on you because he's already been told what the outcome would be.
It also provides a very very handy outlet for scum who suspect they might have been investigated. Like I said, it just causes too much chaos for the town for its continued existence to be of any worth.
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Fri May 09, 2008 6:15 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

Kneejerkily hit Submit before commenting on the other posts:

Cephrir wrote:One of these things is not like the other.
I thought that it would be so mindnumbingly obvious that lynching scum is better than lynching a miller that I didn't really think to specify that point.
Cephrir wrote:Far as I can tell, your case on me is "he claimed Miller", which is awful. I smell oppurtunism.
I smell failure to read. See my posts near the beginning of the day, as well as near yesterday's end.
Losing any town-aligned player is always bad; unless they're a paranoid gun owner death miller who roleblocks all Cops while they're alive, not killing protown people is usually a good idea.
I disagree. I think that in some cases a townie can be so disruptive that their loss would provide a net benefit to the town.
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Sat May 10, 2008 2:45 am

Post by Cephrir »

Cyberbob wrote:
Cephrir wrote:Reread your posts, came to the same conclusion as Tar.
That's convenient.
FOS: Cephrir
Oh, hi there. Vote: Cephrir
OGML already said he needed another readthrough, and that his vote was basically off the top of his head.
Those are the only two times you've mentioned me since page 15, which is how far back I went. If that constituted a case, my conception of mafia would be heavily altered.
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Sat May 10, 2008 3:36 am

Post by Nekka-Lucifer »

I'll be done on Wednesday. I promise. Immense apologies for having it this late but full time education is a bitch.
GUESS WHO'S BACK?

Not me...
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Sat May 10, 2008 3:36 am

Post by Cyberbob »

...















Yesterday's - and today's - argument over the lynch never happened, did it?
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Sat May 10, 2008 3:37 am

Post by Cyberbob »

EBWOP: Ninja'd by Nekka. That was directed at Cephrir.
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Sat May 10, 2008 3:39 am

Post by Cephrir »

Disagreeing with me and making a case on me are not the same thing. Try harder.
"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Sat May 10, 2008 4:10 am

Post by Cyberbob »

That was more than enough of a case for me at this point in the game.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Sat May 10, 2008 9:12 am

Post by TheHermit »

I thought we already established that supporting the lynch of an absent player is scummy?
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Mon May 12, 2008 10:48 pm

Post by Hjallti »

I do believe the miller claim. I want even to meta the mod for it: in illustrated mafia town lost his first member by lynching the claimed miller. Although it was not clear at that moment post game the mod told he was a miller indeed. Nekka was in that game, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had miller in his setup, and that miller would have to deduce it from the flavour of his role-PM.

I think my vote should not be used on Cephrir for now but rather on angelmouse.

vote: angelmouse
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Mon May 12, 2008 10:51 pm

Post by Hjallti »

[i]"Early experiments in transportation" Gary Larson[/i]

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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Mon May 12, 2008 11:26 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

FOS: Hjallti


Mod-meta is a very very risky exercise - particularly when dealing with a role like the Miller that has the potential to be so damaging to the town should the claim be fake.
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Tue May 13, 2008 6:09 am

Post by angelmouse »

May i ask why i gained your vote Hjallti with no reasoning what so ever? I find votes like these at this point in the game interesting and suspicios.

Also agee with Cyberbob that mod-meta is very very risky. I'm not sure what you mean about deducing the claim and you believing it. According to what I read Cephir was told out right he was a miller and OMGL was told he was a "bully" and therefore thought he was a miller. Which one do you belive or both? I find it hard to belive that Cephir is told outright as well as OMGL having to deduce he is miller so can you explain further please?
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Tue May 13, 2008 11:58 pm

Post by Hjallti »

page by page (I paraphrase rather than quote to see if my interpretation is right)

page 1 random nonsense
page 2 contains a discussion including angelmouse, Cephrir and Monkey. At first read I thought Angelmouse was behaving weird (removing the vote after one reaction, while keeping it might have given more info), but at second readthrough I think that TrustGossip reacts weird in post 47. His way of calling Cephrir using universal patterns is strange.
page 3 contains more reactions. I still don't get what TrustGossip is upto. Most reactions now are more eagerness-tells than something else.
page 4 further positioning of the players
page 5 I single out this, because I don't like it, but I might consider it playstyle
CFK wrote:Fairly random, I noticed that when you put a thied vote on something happened, so I thought I would try the same.

I find Trustgossip a little suspicous right now, but it was mainly because he/she already had two votes on him/her.
This is even more timid than voting and removing it as fast as angelmouse. It is useless as pressure vote if you declare it a vote like this. I don't like this at all.
page 6 more discussion about the Cephrir - TrustGossip interaction. I still feel TrustGossip's reaction stranger than Cephrirs'
I agree with Cyberbob that OhGodMyLife went OMGUS voting Rime Ice Fury


I have no more time today. Will continue this asap.

unvote
, but only because I am rereading, I don't trust angelmouse a bit more today than yesterday.
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Wed May 14, 2008 10:40 am

Post by OhGodMyLife »

I'd like to point out that the game Hjallti just linked was in fact the meta reference I used in my debate with Cephrir over whether or not millers who don't know they're millers happen in mini normals. I didn't put two and two together with the fact that nekka was in that very game, but that only makes me more sure.

I'll be very short on time until next Monday or Tuesday, my college graduation is this Saturday and I already have family in town.
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Wed May 14, 2008 11:10 am

Post by Cephrir »

Game...dying...even more than it was. So here's a quick review of CB:

Early Day 1: Fairly useless bastion of sarcasm. Very little actual input.
Cyberbob wrote:Hm...

I like the Greasy Spot wagon. His recent posts have been extremely poor play, at best, and his claim to have caught every single scum in the game is... laughable. If he wasn't at L-1 I'd vote him. FOS: Greasy Spot
This post is a big part of the case. He says he likes the wagon, says GS has been playing horribly and his play is terrible, his roleclaim is atrocious... yet, no hammer. Why not hammer the obvscum?
Shaka, you're assuming that the scum has actually committed scumtells in the thread. If they've been playing pretty well, or if there are scummier players in the game, trying to push for their lynch is likely to end up with you claiming anyway.
Sounds like cocky scum, not believing he's made any scumtells and gloating about it.
Having said that, why are people pushing for a cop claim when a) we don't even know if one is in the game, and b) they are more likely to have gotten an innocent result than a guilty one? I realise you're speaking in hypotheticals, but goddamn does it look like you're assuming a guilty result.
Afraid of a cop claim. Not neccessarily a scumtell though.
Things changed, angel. Greasy became a little to scummy for me to feel comfortable dismissing him on the grounds of his fast wagon; after all, it is in no way impossible for a town-driven wagon to grow like that. It's bad play, but not at all implausible.
This is in response to a post where amouse basically hits the nail on the head in terms of CB's flip-flop on GS. The wording of this post bothers me a lot, but I can't really explain it. Trying to sound like the cautious townie, maybe? Not sure. Cautiousness seems odd coming from Captain Sarcastic.
Hindsight has shown that the wagon was in fact a good one, but that doesn't mean allowing it to grow as fast as it did was good for the town with the information we had at the time. Unless they were bussing him (another possibility), it was bad play.
Lynching scum is good play. I don't care how it gets done.

A fe posts of sarcasm and bandwagon vote on peg follow this...

Then,
I am in favour of the CFK wagon - but don't you think we should be at least giving whoever it is that replaces him a chance to defend themselves?

It won't "fizzle", it will just be on hold for a couple of days. I don't see why you're so keen on quicklynching him, TBH.
If attempting to avoid a quicklynch on someone who isn't currently able to defend themselves or offer the town any more information that could prove useful if they cardflip townie is being difficult, sign me up.
Extremely cautious of CFK wagon, probably because he knew CFK was town.
Oh, hi there. Vote: Cephrir

OGML already said he needed another readthrough, and that his vote was basically off the top of his head.
Votes me for no apparent reason, basically 100% unadulterated OMGUS, as his reasons are still bad.
The only reason I laid the hammer on was because his replacement was taking aaages and I didn't want to risk anyone else flaking.
Thinks lynching CFK was a bad idea. This game would probably have stayed in D2 forever if we didn't do that.
I'm still happy with my Cephrir vote. If he's scum, hooray. If he really is a miller, well, that's a distraction/source of confusion the town most certainly does not need gone.

Besides, I really don't believe he's anything other than scum.
Advocates lynching me even if I am town, but thinks I'm scum, still with no reasons.
Let me put it this way: he's the scummiest player at this point in the game. Obviously I'd prefer him to be scum than a Miller, but if he does turn out to be one it wouldn't be any real loss to the town (both in terms of the confusion regarding his true alignment and his scummy play).
Lynching any protown player is still bad, been through this already. Decides that I have had "scummy play", but nonetheless fails to provide any examples.
We obviously have very different stances on how to deal with Millers. I find them to be nuisances that do nothing but distract the town. When you factor in Ceph's play (which surely you must admit isn't the towniest ever)... I think the risk is worth it.

Also, I never said that a Cephtown lynch wouldn't be bad. Stop putting words in my mouth, thanks.
Millers can scumhunt, thanks. And you basically did say that lynching me as town would only eliminate a "distraction" (I see no reason why I'm a distraction btw; it's just that the Cop (who probablybecause I do) already knows what an investigation on me would yield.
I smell failure to read. See my posts near the beginning of the day, as well as near yesterday's end.
This is his only response to my saying he has no case on me; as I have pointed out, said posts do not exist.

Then he finally decides that he's voting me over yesterday's CFK lynch, even though he finds OGML just as scummy. Why did he not mention this was his reason sooner? Good question.

And, in his most recent post, he shies away from meta-ing the mod, which, coincidentally, provides some evidence in my favor. Just gotta keep the imaginary case alive, eh, CB?
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Wed May 14, 2008 7:43 pm

Post by Nekka-Lucifer »

Vote counts, death scenes etc coming up after I return from work today. It would be helpful if someone could write a to do list but it's not necessary.
GUESS WHO'S BACK?

Not me...
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Wed May 14, 2008 8:14 pm

Post by angelmouse »

Hjalli wrote: page 2 contains a discussion including angelmouse, Cephrir and Monkey. At first read I thought Angelmouse was behaving weird (removing the vote after one reaction, while keeping it might have given more info),
Is that not exactly what you have done, voted myself then removed it after only one reaction? If it seems weird to you then this seems weird to me.

And still you don't say anything at all at why you don't trust me or why you voted me in the first place. I can handle to vote, but the lack of resoning and re-reading to gain a reason, to me, is not entirely town behaviour.
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Wed May 14, 2008 8:23 pm

Post by TheHermit »

MAN, Cephrir, your "case" against CB is really shoddy. Hardly any of the points you make stand up to scrutiny. But, I'm not going to go into detail on why you're wrong. I'll leave that to Cyberbob, both because he doesn't need my help for this one and also because I want to see him try. Who knows? Maybe he really is scum, and by forcing him to defend himself he'll slip up.

But personally? I'm seeing a scum who's trying to take advantage of what he sees as a target of opportunity to get a townie lynched. Your tunnel vision is giving you away. I don't remember where my vote is, but
Unvote, Vote: Cephrir
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