Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)

[Ether]

3 Rotten Snitch (Yosarian2, Mizzy, Y)
1 Zindaras (Skruffs)

5 Unvote (Andycyca, eldarad, hasdgfas, Rotten Snitch, Zindaras)

9 alive; 5 to lynch.

Andycyca has been prodded.

[Yosarian2]

They were wrong for attacking you?
A bandwagon is good to have going but not because of a deadline threat. It makes it easier to lynch a townie because of the bandwagon and not their play. It allows a last resort and an easy out even though it may not be the best choice at the last minute.

Uh, yes, they were wrong for attacking me just because I said "we need to bandwagon someone and we need to do it now." We did need to bandwagon someone, and we should have done it then. The fact that we failed to do so has seriously coast the town.

And if there's a deadline threat, then yes, we do need to get bandwagons going, because if you don't, then you're risking either a no-lynch or a hastily rushed last minute lynch. I said so yesterday, and events have pretty clearly proven me right.

Trying for an early bandwagon to make the deadline lynch easier is not a good tactic and in my opinion seems scummy. It makes it hard to figure out who the scum on the wagon is and why they were there.

Trying to put together a bandwagon in order to make it possible to lynch someone isn't "scummy", it's what every townie should be doing all the time, and ESPECALLY so when a deadline is coming up.

And you know what makes it even harder to figure out who the scum on a wagon are? A no-lynch.

Right now you and Mizzy are on my wagon but if it continues to grow because the town is more afraid of a no lynch instead of catching scum then I see an anti-town reason to start the bandwagon.

I am voting for you because you're acting like scum, and have been acting like scum all game. If you don't want people on your wagon, then I'd suggest you should act in a more pro-town way.

Using fear of a no-lynch as grounds for yours and Mizzy's vote on me to encourage an early bandwagon?

An early bandwagon? You should have been dead like a month ago. This isn't an "early" bandwagon, it's one that's much, much too late.

Besides, there's no such thing as an "early" bandwagon, especally when it's based on logic. It's never too early to bandwagon; voting people who look scummy and getting other people to do the same is how the town wins games.

[Andycyca]

Sorry guys.

I believe that Mizzy and Yosarian are the scum in this game.
I believe that Mizzy played a decent part in the Capri wagon.
I believe that Mizzy has been fighting back and forth with Skruffs to distract the others and to draw attention away from any other conversation.
I believe that Yos has been trying to get a bandwagon on an easy target (Me) and when I pop town he can say I acted scummy and therefore his vote was legit like he did with Capri.
I believe that Yos's vote on Capri to pressure a defense from him would have stayed no matter what Capri defended with.
I believe from Yos and Mizzy's immediate vote on me was more out of frustration of their night actions than anything else.

Classic noobscum-tell I think not
You should probably be wary of making comments like this- everyone plays differently and no scum tell is 100% accurate

OK, I'll go phrase-by-phrase

1. Nice belief. What makes you think that (not that I agree with you)
2. If by "decent" you mean "no vote", ok
3. Well, she debated a lot with eldarad yesterday because of her

non

participation in D1's lynch. Why don't you take that as "distraction" as well?
4. I think that's called "Appeal to emotion". back in D1 I voted you and you made more or less the same mistake.
5. Again, what makes you think that? We're excluding psychic abilities.
5a. what purpose does that belief serve?
6. Again, contentless phrase.
7. OK, I agree here.

[Mizzy]

I believe that Mizzy and Yosarian are the scum in this game.
I believe that Mizzy played a decent part in the Capri wagon.
I believe that Mizzy has been fighting back and forth with Skruffs to distract the others and to draw attention away from any other conversation.
I believe that Yos has been trying to get a bandwagon on an easy target (Me) and when I pop town he can say I acted scummy and therefore his vote was legit like he did with Capri.
I believe that Yos's vote on Capri to pressure a defense from him would have stayed no matter what Capri defended with.
I believe from Yos and Mizzy's immediate vote on me was more out of frustration of their night actions than anything else.

Classic noobscum-tell I think not
You should probably be wary of making comments like this- everyone plays differently and no scum tell is 100% accurate

My turn!

1) You're probably missing one. If Yos and I are scum, who's the other? In a game this size, there ought to be three.
2) Um, how?
3) Except, Skruffs and I haven't fought in ages.
4) Considering that all we have to go on is scummy activity to gain a lynch, I don't see that making a valid case against someone and then lynching them is a bad thing. Townies are wrong all the time. It doesn't make them scum. This is also assuming they we are wrong about you, which I don't think we are.
5) Easy to whine about something you can't prove, isn't it?
6) I asked for proof and didn't get any, which means you're either pulling that out of your ass or you're too lazy to go find proof.

Actually, there IS one scumtell that is 100% accurate, but that's not it. Even so, scumtells and solid evidence are what we go on in these games. There are both against you here in this game, and your lack of decent defense isn't helping you.

Look, I'm willing to entertain the idea that you are not scum IF you can provide me with some non-bullshit defense. Can you try?

If

you are pro-town, then you owe it to the town to try. No offense, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Mizzy]

Mod:

I'll be going away for the weekend today and I'll be back sometime late on Sunday. Thanks!

[Rotten Snitch]

Look, I'm willing to entertain the idea that you are not scum IF you can provide me with some non-bullshit defense. Can you try? If you are pro-town, then you owe it to the town to try. No offense, but I'm not going to hold my breath

Mizzy I am pro-town I have my defense and I will make that later but for now I believe with absolutely no information of the roles in this game that right now I am making the best pro-town decision. I know what this sounds like but I am not hinting towards that claim at all. I will state again I am just a regular nobody in this game.

If you seem to think that there are three scum in a game this big then that puts us in a LYLO situation right now if I am right about my hunch.

[Mizzy]

If you seem to think that there are three scum in a game this big then that puts us in a LYLO situation right now if I am right about my hunch.

There are usually three scum in a game of this size, yes. Sometimes there are different combinations, 2 scummers and an SK or something like that, but I have no idea what weird shit Ether's cooked up, really.

[Skruffs]

The third werewolf is obviously GABRIEL... who we can't vote for because he's still a baby.

There is no reason to think that there is more than one killing group, though. We don't know if that killing group is a mafia, an SK, or a vig. If it's a vig, than we are probably dealing with a cult. If it's an SK, then we probably don't have any power roles. If it's a mafia, and we don't have any power roles, then it's probably a two player one (based on calvin and hobbs mafia and other mountainous setups), but if there are, and a doctor or roleblocker stopped the kill, then yeah it's a 3 player.

Yosarian: Who was idle on site during the 48 hour night stage?

[Rotten Snitch]

I will not be around much during the weekend but I will try to check in as much as possible.

Next week I will be away on business and will not be available during the day although I will try to keep up.

[eldarad]

3. Well, she debated a lot with eldarad yesterday because of her

non

participation in D1's lynch. Why don't you take that as "distraction" as well?

Well, Andy, what do you think about that? Because so far you've avoided expressing an opinion either way...

[Y]

If you seem to think that there are three scum in a game this big then that puts us in a LYLO situation right now if I am right about my hunch.

Which is? Because unless I'm mistaken, we're not in a LYLO situation until D4, if there are three werewolves.

Skruffs, who is this Gabriel you're talking about?
I also don't thing we have a vig. A vig wouldn't kill on N0. Either that, or we have a lousy one. Either way, it seems unprobable. I can't believe that a doc actually prevented a death every day and two deaths last night. That would be a record (Even a combined effort betwen a doc and a RB wouldn't prevent so many kills).

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian: Who was idle on site during the 48 hour night stage?

That's a reasonable thought. Only problem with that theory is that that would probably require all of the scum to have not been around at night, for them to just fail to get a kill in just because they weren't here. Still, 's worth considering. Why, do you know of anyway who was away during that time?

[Skruffs]

Yup! And it also means that if scum noticed one or two players idle at that point, they could have no killed to set up a wifom. I'm kind of sad that you would push the point.

Y: Gabriel is Mizzy's baby.

I still don' tlike Mizzy's 'knowledge' she has presented abou the scum through the game. I agree that it is likely to be a 3 person scum group, but considering the only roles revealed have been townies, there's no way to say WHAT we are arguing against, so.

[Yosarian2]

Yup! And it also means that if scum noticed one or two players idle at that point, they could have no killed to set up a wifom. I'm kind of sad that you would push the point.

...what?

You were the one suggesting that the scum might have no-killed because they weren't around. I was willing to listen to your theory, and asked if you had anyone specific in mind, and now you're "sad I would push the point"? Huh?

[Mizzy]

I still don' tlike Mizzy's 'knowledge' she has presented abou the scum through the game. I agree that it is likely to be a 3 person scum group, but considering the only roles revealed have been townies, there's no way to say WHAT we are arguing against, so.

I presented

opinions

, not knowledge, based on precedence and experience.

[Y]

Skruffs, you were the one to suggest scum missed a kill because they weren't here (as Yos commented already), and you wrote a post agreeing, as a final conclusion, that three mafiosos is a reasonable bet.

You say things, and then accuse people for listening to you?

[hasdgfas]

Yup! And it also means that if scum noticed one or two players idle at that point, they could have no killed to set up a wifom. I'm kind of sad that you would push the point.

....

I agree that it is likely to be a 3 person scum group, but considering the only roles revealed have been townies, there's no way to say WHAT we are arguing against, so.

Well, we also had a Gaoler die. While we don't know what the scumgroup(s) are composed of, since we've had a maximum of one death pernight, we can assume at this point only one group since there's been nothing to contradict that. If there are 2 deaths some night, we can think about it again, but at this point why are you on mizzy for this?

[Andycyca]

I saw your question eldarad. I'll adress it later today.

[eldarad]

Well, we have a week until deadline and, if anything, we're in a worse position than we were this time Yesterday.

I find the RS wagon to be very unappealing. I would be very reluctant to join that wagon unless something radically changed.

[Yosarian2]

Well then, Eldred, who do you think we should lynch?

[Skruffs]

I was pretty sure that Yosarian2 brought it up first, and I was baiting him to see if he was actually trying to push it. HOwver, like with everything else in this world, I guess I could be mistaken.

Y: Could you quote the post where I agree that there is 3 scum 'as a final conclusion'? I know you're not trying to put words in my mouth.

I'm trying to figure out how I am being linked to RS. Can someone explain this to me? IS this the classic "He's defending the really obnoxious player which means he is scum and 'knows' he is town and is trying to get townie points" attack on me? THat's the only one I Can see as applicable, and even then, I made the connection between me and RS known in the beginning of the game. For those who forget, me and Rotten Snitch have played mafia together in real life.

[Rotten Snitch]

I find the RS wagon to be very unappealing. I would be very reluctant to join that wagon unless something radically changed

Why Eldarad? I think my lynch would be in the best interest for the town.

I could explain my reasoning but it would be completely WIFOM and being as we do not know the roles of the pro-town peoples I really think it is the best decision.

I am pro-town but to be on the safe side (in case my hunch is correct) lets all lynch me at deadline ok?

[Andycyca]

3. Well, she debated a lot with eldarad yesterday because of her

non

participation in D1's lynch. Why don't you take that as "distraction" as well?

Well, Andy, what do you think about that? Because so far you've avoided expressing an opinion either way...

My gut didn't like the way she expressed about the people in the wagon, but so far I haven't seen it as an attack strong enough to consider it a scummy tell.

BTW RS, if you're approving of your lynch, why exactly do you suggest it to be by deadline? We've seen that those deadlines are terrible for scumhunting

[Y]

There is no reason to think that there is more than one killing group, though. We don't know if that killing group is a mafia, an SK, or a vig. If it's a vig, than we are probably dealing with a cult. If it's an SK, then we probably don't have any power roles. If it's a mafia, and we don't have any power roles, then it's probably a two player one (based on calvin and hobbs mafia and other mountainous setups), but if there are, and a doctor or roleblocker stopped the kill, then yeah

it's a 3 player

.

Note, please, that I never said that you agree that there are three scums as a conclusion, but that you agree that it's a possibility.

[Yosarian2]

I was pretty sure that Yosarian2 brought it up first, and I was baiting him to see if he was actually trying to push it. HOwver, like with everything else in this world, I guess I could be mistaken.

Lol. Nope, I'm pretty sure I never said anything like that until you did, Skruffs. In fact, while your suggestion (and yes, I do think it was your suggestion, unless you can point to a quote where someone else suggested that...) that the scum might have been away all night was possible, it's not very likely, since that would require all of the scum to be away the whole time; and I wanted to see where you were going with that, if you were planning to use your theory to put together an attack on someone.