Open 65 - Mini Love (Over!) before 578

[Korts]

Besides which, forcing the scum to NK dahill instead of lynching him delays the death of his lover by a Night. So there is always an outside possibility that his lover will be targeted for a NK even though they are going to die anyway.
If dahill's lover is revealed that option disappears.

Wait, doesn't the lover-pair die at the same point in the game? Is the death of the other half delayed? I realize I may not have read the rules/roles thoroughly enough. I'm going for a reread of them.

...

Geez. Whatever, yeah, you're right. Well, the alternative is to lynch dahill without him claiming his partner, then.

Or because of a doc save, or because the scum target the claimed doc instead.
Quite an enormous oversight on your part there Korts...

Yeah, I was bound to miss something, I thought about what it could be for five minutes. But hey, I'm not one of the smart guys'n'gals around here.

And another thing - the scum may NK dahill even though his lover is treacherous just for the WIFOM value of having a scum who knows he is dead man walking anyway.

I don't really understand this part. Are you saying they'd try killing the treacherous lover, just for the sake of the remaining scum being able to take the town on by himself?

[dahill1]

i say we just try and find any scum, whether that be lone scum or lover scum.

What is wrong in my logic, then?

i never said anything was wrong, just offering my opinion

i don't want to claim my partner, because i believe him/her to be town.

If you are both town and the scum kills your partner, we can identify the treacherous lover tomorrow, so the scum probably wouldn't kill your partner and thus claiming your partner does not do any harm.

I think for that reason we should force dahill1 to claim partner - it does not do any harm and that way we find out whether his claim was true.

Anyway, I admit my thinking may be flawed here, there is no hurry, I don't want him to claim partner before this is discussed/accepted.

am i missing something here? there are 3 lovers, so when my partner and i both die (assuming my partner is town), then you won't be able to identify the treacherous lover right away. claiming my partner doesn't mean you will necessarily be able to find the scum lover.

I agree with silence, who, despite his name, has a pretty valuable suggestion. Here's the plan, as I see it.

Dahill claims his partner. After that, there are two possibilities. A) they die, B) they stay alive either because dahill or his partner is in fact treacherous lover, or because scum want to try WIFOM.

If A) happens, and both dahill and his partner come up town, the town half of the other pair should claim immediately, because then surely his partner is the treacherous lover. And then we're down to 1 scum against 3 town, and we have a fairly good chance of winning from thereon.

wrong! again, aren't there 2 more pairs of lovers left (excluding me and my partner)? also, just because someone claims they are the town lover, doesn't mean there partner is scum! you can't base truth on whoever claims fiaster that's ridiculous!

If B) happens, I think the town's best chance is to policy-lynch dahill, or his partner, and from there, it's the same as point A), except that we have one more night kill, so it'd be 1 scum to 2 town.

why should we policy-lynch me? how about we scumhunt as normal?

Alternatively, we can policy-lynch dahill now, and our chances would improve, the fact being that 4 town would face the single scum.

again, why not just scumhunt? it seems to be working so far

[kravhen]

(stil alive, will re-read and post tonight, although ive seen sneak peeks and this game is looking interesting enough... LETS CRACK THIS SHIZ OPEN)

[ThAdmiral]

Vote Count:

Korts - 3

(Dahill, Jex, Elderad)

Sethaniel - 2

(Babygirl, Korts)

Dahill - 1

(ABR)

Babygirl - 1

(Coron)

Not Voting -

(Kravhen, Silence, Sethaniel)

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

To clarify - if a lover is lynched the other lover will die in the night. If a lover is night-killed the other lover will die the same night.

[Korts]

i don't want to claim my partner, because i believe him/her to be town.

If you are both town and the scum kills your partner, we can identify the treacherous lover tomorrow, so the scum probably wouldn't kill your partner and thus claiming your partner does not do any harm.

I think for that reason we should force dahill1 to claim partner - it does not do any harm and that way we find out whether his claim was true.

Anyway, I admit my thinking may be flawed here, there is no hurry, I don't want him to claim partner before this is discussed/accepted.

am i missing something here? there are 3 lovers, so when my partner and i both die (assuming my partner is town), then you won't be able to identify the treacherous lover right away. claiming my partner doesn't mean you will necessarily be able to find the scum lover.

No. Aside from you and your partner, there's one other pair of lovers, therefore if you and your partner die and both of you are town, the treacherous lover will be in the other pair. Now, the town half of the other pair has win conditions that require all the mafia, lover or not, to die, therefore it is in his own best interest to claim and die. Therefore we get the treacherous lover killed.

FoS: dahill

for not realizing this.

I agree with silence, who, despite his name, has a pretty valuable suggestion. Here's the plan, as I see it.

Dahill claims his partner. After that, there are two possibilities. A) they die, B) they stay alive either because dahill or his partner is in fact treacherous lover, or because scum want to try WIFOM.

If A) happens, and both dahill and his partner come up town, the town half of the other pair should claim immediately, because then surely his partner is the treacherous lover. And then we're down to 1 scum against 3 town, and we have a fairly good chance of winning from thereon.

wrong! again, aren't there 2 more pairs of lovers left (excluding me and my partner)? also, just because someone claims they are the town lover, doesn't mean there partner is scum! you can't base truth on whoever claims fiaster that's ridiculous!

Wrong, again. There's just a single pair of lovers other than you and your partner. And once you die, there will be only one pair. The town half claims, and I think in this case we can believe the claim, since no-one else in this setup would win anything by falsely claiming lover. If the mafia goon claims, he's dead anyway, and if a townie claims, he just fucked up a good plan for the town.

If B) happens, I think the town's best chance is to policy-lynch dahill, or his partner, and from there, it's the same as point A), except that we have one more night kill, so it'd be 1 scum to 2 town.

why should we policy-lynch me? how about we scumhunt as normal?

We lynch you because it all works out best for town that way.

Alternatively, we can policy-lynch dahill now, and our chances would improve, the fact being that 4 town would face the single scum.

again, why not just scumhunt? it seems to be working so far

Again, if you think clearly and have pro-town intentions, you should see how it helps the town to lynch you.

[Korts]

Also, one more thing I forgot.

Unvote, Vote: dahill

[kravhen]

I feel bad for you, dahill.. i really do... lol
"You have been chosen to die!!"
I know I shouldve given a longer more contentful post right now, but Im a bit busy and not home atm, so expect it soon. I dont feel i have enough info to vote anyone as of yet, require more rereading, especially the part where people were analyzing Yoshi and trying to associate him with people...

So dont lynch anyone yet, kk?

[dahill1]

Setup

• 5
  townies
  
  
• 2
  mafia
  
  
• 3
  lovers
  
  
• 1
  treacherous lover
  
  
• 1
  doc

doh! sorry i assumed it meant 3

pairs

of lovers
anyways, i can accept me being lynched, but i think that if anyone is lovers with Korts that would be a

much

better lynch

[kravhen]

yeah man i dont like seeing dahill go like this... its like 1-2 people said "hey lets lynch him and see"... not enough participation from other people.
We need more opinions, drama, resistance, anything

[eldarad]

yeah man i dont like seeing dahill go like this... its like 1-2 people said "hey lets lynch him and see"... not enough participation from other people.
We need more opinions, drama, resistance, anything

lol, I can't help thinking of the Erasure song "Drama". But that's my (psychological) damage, not yours...
If it's worth anything, I am currently opposed to a dahill lynch at the moment.

[dahill1]

yeah man i dont like seeing dahill go like this... its like 1-2 people said "hey lets lynch him and see"... not enough participation from other people.
We need more opinions, drama, resistance, anything

lol, I can't help thinking of the Erasure song "Drama". But that's my (psychological) damage, not yours...
If it's worth anything, I am currently opposed to a dahill lynch at the moment.

what do you, and everyone else for that matter, think about another lover claiming but only if they are lovers with Korts?
of course, Korts could be just a regular goon, but if he is a lover i think it is highly possible that he is the scum lover

[eldarad]

yeah man i dont like seeing dahill go like this... its like 1-2 people said "hey lets lynch him and see"... not enough participation from other people.
We need more opinions, drama, resistance, anything

lol, I can't help thinking of the Erasure song "Drama". But that's my (psychological) damage, not yours...
If it's worth anything, I am currently opposed to a dahill lynch at the moment.

what do you, and everyone else for that matter, think about another lover claiming but only if they are lovers with Korts?
of course, Korts could be just a regular goon, but if he is a lover i think it is highly possible that he is the scum lover

Hypothetically?
I would lynch Korts at the drop of a hat anyway - a Korts-lover claim would complicate things somewhat. But in a rather interesting way...
I'm guessing that is not the answer you were looking for?

[Korts]

If I'm the treacherous lover, I'm not your partner, and we lynch you, dahill, today, the logical step is to lynch the other lover pair, therefore it would be stupid for me to have proposed this plan. And before you shout WIFOM, it's not so much of that here, because with me having (hypothetically) a town partner, who finds out tomorrow that I'm scum, I wouldn't be able to avoid death.

[kravhen]

If I'm the treacherous lover, I'm not your partner, and we lynch you, dahill, today, the logical step is to lynch the other lover pair, therefore it would be stupid for me to have proposed this plan. And before you shout WIFOM, it's not so much of that here, because with me having (hypothetically) a town partner, who finds out tomorrow that I'm scum, I wouldn't be able to avoid death.

Wait, so you're saying you're scum?

[Korts]

No,

you idiot

kind sir, I was just following a train of thought, accepting that hypothetically I could be scum.

[Jex]

While I understand the logic of killing off the known lover today, I feel that Korts only brought this plan up in order to get everyone's attention off of him and onto someone else. Korts is on the top of my scum list, as well as many others lists, and I feel he's the best lynch for the day.

The love plan works on any day, so we kill korts today (getting rid of one scum) and then deal with the lovers tomorrow.

Also, I'm indifferent to whether dahill should claim his partner or not. I see both pro-town and pro-scum reasons for doing it. I'm going to have to go with no, dahill shouldn't claim because I think it helps the scum more than it helps the town at this point. If the town wants to be rid of the lover pair there is no need to know the 2nd partner as we'd all just vote to kill dahill eliminating both. Therefore, a claim in unnecessary.

With that, my vote stays on Korts as he still sits at the top of my list of scum and I feel like he's just trying to save himself by targeting the lovers right now instead of waiting.

[Korts]

I feel like he's just trying to save himself by targeting the lovers right now instead of waiting.

Waiting? For what? The game to stall?

The love plan works on any day, so we kill korts today (getting rid of one scum) and then deal with the lovers tomorrow.

The only problem with this is that, if say I'm pro-town and you lynch me, then you go on and lynch the two pairs of lovers, the town's chances are reduced compared to lynching dahill's pair today.

Also, I'm indifferent to whether dahill should claim his partner or not. I see both pro-town and pro-scum reasons for doing it. I'm going to have to go with no, dahill shouldn't claim because I think it helps the scum more than it helps the town at this point. If the town wants to be rid of the lover pair there is no need to know the 2nd partner as we'd all just vote to kill dahill eliminating both. Therefore, a claim in unnecessary.

I agree with that. Whether or not we go with a dahill lynch today, he shouldn't claim his partner.

[dahill1]

While I understand the logic of killing off the known lover today, I feel that Korts only brought this plan up in order to get everyone's attention off of him and onto someone else. Korts is on the top of my scum list, as well as many others lists, and I feel he's the best lynch for the day.

The love plan works on any day, so we kill korts today (getting rid of one scum) and then deal with the lovers tomorrow.

Also, I'm indifferent to whether dahill should claim his partner or not. I see both pro-town and pro-scum reasons for doing it. I'm going to have to go with no, dahill shouldn't claim because I think it helps the scum more than it helps the town at this point. If the town wants to be rid of the lover pair there is no need to know the 2nd partner as we'd all just vote to kill dahill eliminating both. Therefore, a claim in unnecessary.

With that, my vote stays on Korts as he still sits at the top of my list of scum and I feel like he's just trying to save himself by targeting the lovers right now instead of waiting.

i agree. as i see it, i will either:
1) get NKd tonight and both my partner and i will die
2) not get NKd for WIFOM
3) they somehow guess my partner and NK that person, so we both die
4) they don't NK us because one of us is the scum lover
those are ranked from most likely to least likely to happen. i can see how lynching me would be beneficial, but to me Korts is obvscum

[Albert B. Rampage]

We should lynch Jex today. She's....evil. She's not on our side, I can sense it.

V/L/A

[eldarad]

While I understand the logic of killing off the known lover today, I feel that Korts only brought this plan up in order to get everyone's attention off of him and onto someone else. Korts is on the top of my scum list, as well as many others lists, and I feel he's the best lynch for the day.

The love plan works on any day, so we kill korts today

(getting rid of one scum)

and then deal with the lovers tomorrow.

The bolded part really gets to me. It's a much stronger statement than a townie would make, I feel. I think that by lynching Korts we are lynching the

most likely

scum, but I'm not complacent about it.

All we need to figure out is whether Jex is pushing for a townie lynch, or whether she's bussing Kortscum. In the meantime,

unvote
vote Jex

[Korts]

Yeah I've been scummy, I'm trying to work on it. But Jex, I'd like you to explain why it'd still be beneficial for the town to start lynching the lover pairs tomorrow.

[Coron]

While I understand the logic of killing off the known lover today, I feel that Korts only brought this plan up in order to get everyone's attention off of him and onto someone else. Korts is on the top of my scum list, as well as many others lists, and I feel he's the best lynch for the day.

The love plan works on any day, so we kill korts today

(getting rid of one scum)

and then deal with the lovers tomorrow.

The bolded part really gets to me. It's a much stronger statement than a townie would make, I feel. I think that by lynching Korts we are lynching the

most likely

scum, but I'm not complacent about it.

All we need to figure out is whether Jex is pushing for a townie lynch, or whether she's bussing Kortscum. In the meantime,

unvote
vote Jex

FoS: Eldarad

I don't like your tone.

[Korts]

While I understand the logic of killing off the known lover today, I feel that Korts only brought this plan up in order to get everyone's attention off of him and onto someone else. Korts is on the top of my scum list, as well as many others lists, and I feel he's the best lynch for the day.

The love plan works on any day, so we kill korts today

(getting rid of one scum)

and then deal with the lovers tomorrow.

The bolded part really gets to me. It's a much stronger statement than a townie would make, I feel. I think that by lynching Korts we are lynching the

most likely

scum, but I'm not complacent about it.

All we need to figure out is whether Jex is pushing for a townie lynch, or whether she's bussing Kortscum. In the meantime,

unvote
vote Jex

FoS: Eldarad

I don't like your tone.

Good reasoning. You almost had me convinced.

[eldarad]

Coron, what don't you like about my tone?
Is my tone scummy?

[kravhen]

*Looks at Coron's join date*
Whoops, can't use the newbie excuse for this one huh?