Mini #564 - Mafia in Crubtown - Game Over

[Pink Puppy]

I would bet that Emptyger was a backup who became doctor upon yvonne seer's death, right? Otherwise, yes, I've never seen two docs in a mini.

I am most suspicious of QF and VoD. Both didn't vote at all yesterday, which really bothers me. WK actively tried to get us to reconsider DD, but QF and Vod just sat back, didn't vote for anyone, and let the lynch go through.

I am not sure about the Akonas-Cephrir relationship that EmpTyger put forth. I never really saw it. The fact that Cephrir was suspicious of Akonas, could go either way. Cephrir could have been trying to push guilt on townie or he could have resorted to bussing (because I was pressuring him and he thought he might get lynched). But I don't know for sure. The only thing I see as damaging to Akonas is what QF put forth about Akonas being sort of big-brother/father-figure to DD, trying to help him play better. This is the sort of thing that you wait for engame to tell people. Because if you're town you don't know if someone is acting scummy because they are playing poorly, or because they are scum. And you don't want to give scum hints how to play better, so you don't give hints.

Anyway, Akonas is secondary to me right now. I see QF and VoD as bigger problems. Actually, VoD probably moreso because he floated the idea that scum didn't have to work hard to get mozsuggs lynched D1. This sort of squashed any attention that might have landed on Cephrir for the way he pushed mozsuggs lynch.

Trying to find mafia in mozsuggs death is like trying to find sense in mozsuggs (short) life. I do believe that the mafia wouldn't have had to work hard for a lynch on moz, so they could have sat back and watched, but also given the nature of moz gameplay it would have been just as easy/safe to jump in on a lynch on him.

vote VoD

[Crub]

First Vote Count of Day 3

thevampireofdusseldorf (1):

Pink Puppy

Not Voting (6):

thevampireofdusseldorf, QuantumFruit, Talitha, windkirby, vikingfan, Akonas

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Sk or vig are both possible. With two docs I wouldn't be surprised to have a sk.
As for the coments made by PP I am again not liking the instant finger pointing straight after the night scene.

I am most suspicious of QF and VoD. Both didn't vote at all yesterday, which really bothers me. WK actively tried to get us to reconsider DD, but QF and Vod just sat back, didn't vote for anyone, and let the lynch go through.

I dont get what is wrong with not voting. DD was the only real lynch candidate and my attempts to gather more info from the day were of more importance than placing a vote on someone I pressumed would be lynched without my vote as we were in a deadline situation. I said I would support a dd wagon when it came to it but then realised it didnt need my vote for the lynch to happen. To say I let the lynch happpen is true but is that anymore true than those that voted dd? I dont get your point or your case about this. Over aggressive again I am starting to wonder if the whole flame thing with Cephrir was perhaps some sort of cover.

And your last quote of mine actualy says that mafia could have either been active in mozs lynch or could have sat on the wayside and this comment I still hold as being accurate as looking for one type of behaviour for mafia teams to take in a lynch is a bit narrow minded.

Before jumping in with finger pointing I will go back and have a read through of the game from the start.

[Pink Puppy]

Well if voting who you think is scummy is overaggressive, then I guess I am.

What's wrong with voting directly after the night scene? You're who I am most suspicious of right now, so yeah, I'm going to vote you. I also want to discuss it more. I don't advocate lynching anyone right away. But voting right away is a good idea, I think.

Also, I didn't say I had a problem with you because you didn't vote DD, my problem is you weren't voting anyone. You weren't either committing to the DD wagon or presenting another POV and voting another person. You were just hanging out. That is detrimental to the town.

As for Cephrir, I'm the only one who really attacked him hardcore, so take from that what you will.

[vikingfan]

I'm left wondering why Akonas, Talitha, and QF have not posted yet. At this point, I want to hear something substantial from everybody today, especially from QF since she refused to take a stand at all yesterday.

[Talitha]

Just got back from a holiday... tired.. will catch up tomorrow.

[Akonas]

Vikingfan: what do you think of that quote from Cephrir? Who do you think is scum?

I don't like the way PP has been acting lately, and there's a possible connection between her and Cephrir. Example provided here, but there are more:

UNVOTE

VOTE CEPHRIR

Just to speed things up. No justification at all, but it would be cool to get a lynch this century.

unvote; vote mozsuggs

the game is only a week old.

Also, it's worth noting that Cephrir voted for VoD first thing, and was voted for by YvonneSeer and darkdude (both dead).

[Talitha]

I would bet that Emptyger was a backup who became doctor upon yvonne seer's death, right? Otherwise, yes, I've never seen two docs in a mini.

The flavour text in the morning scene doesn't sound like this was a backup role, but I've never seen two full docs in a mini before either.

Of interest to me right now is the fact that Akonas, QF and Windkirby all expressed doubt that darkdude was scum, when I can't see what made them think that. Of course, they turned out to be right. WK was most explicit; Akonas & QF more implied it. WK seemed the most sincere... but he also seemed the most sure... sureness is a red flag for me, as it's the mafia who know things for sure. But I have to say Akonas is the most suspicious of the three for implying that darkdude is town then jumping on the bandwagon anyway.

Interesting that Pink Puppy claims to be the only one to attack Cephrir hardcore, whereas I recall Emptyger as the one most actively trying to get Cephrir lynched (It's easy for scum to attack each other with words then try and claim some innocence from that act.) I've just got my eye on Puppy for now.

VOD seems to be playing a lot safer since day 1. I will go back over the interactions between him and Cephrir as there might be something there.

But after listing the worthy suspects above, I am going to

vote: Vikingfan

I am not comfortable with how he has been flying below my radar, and I had him as my next suspect after darkdude and Cephrir. Further reasons (or an unvote) will follow, when i have some time for some digging.

[windkirby]

Again, I'd like to point to page two, in which QuantumFruit piles on the third vote on me with excessive reasoning. Darkdude calls her out on this, and she defends herself. Then...

Nobody's trying to bandwagon anyone or engineer anything this early in the game with ulterior motives. It's Page 2.

,

which I completely disagree with. Just because it's early in the game, we're supposed to ignore scummy things?

Thank you, Cephrir. I'm just trying to figure out darkdude's logic. It seems convoluted. I mean, with your logic, everyone could be scum either by joke voting or by jumping on someone for joke voting because they're being defensive of either themselves or a scum buddy.

Yes, everyone is potential scum. I'm just saying at this point, there really isn't evidence, unless you can pinpoint what about one action is scummier than another. And that you have not answered, darkdude.

Darkdude's argument was good, but here, QF and Cephrir team up to make him believe otherwise with responses that I personally feel are rather stupid. ... Darkdude had pretty well spelled out why the action was suspicious, but she is oblivious. This could be chalked up to a slight freak occurrence, but then Cephrir goes along with her! There is a chance that Cephrir agreed with a townie rather than his scum partner to throw us off in case he did get lynched, but I find this very unlikely... after all, "no one is trying to engineer anything this early in the game with ulterior motives."

vote: QuantumFruit

[QuantumFruit]

@PinkPuppy: I already explained that I had a pro-town vibe from darkdude, but at the same time, he was the only one I could logically see as being scum. But I won't vote if my gut feeling warns me against it. And I didn't have scum gut feelings about anyone. Sorry.

Also, not voting does not equal "hanging out."

@windkirby: I'm sorry - what? Why do you keep going back to the joke vote as evidence? Can't you dig up something more telling or reasonable than a bad joke? Also, not cool that Cephrir picking a townie pet and tricking me with flattery is getting me in trouble.

So

not cool.

[Akonas]

I think WK's point is valid. Arguing against taking people's comments/votes on Day 1 to mean something is generally counterproductive. Acting on "oh hey that was a bit scummy" starts conversation, gets wagons going, and at worst it's essentially just another random vote. However, my suspicions at this point lie on PP and vikingfan. vikingfan's latest post strikes me as "here guys, I saw some things" so as to avoid being accused of not saying much. Then he yells at us to post despite not having said much... sounds like he's got posting on the brain (sometimes scum post just to make sure it looks like they're posting). Ask me for a better explanation if you don't follow my logic here.

FoS: QF
Almost vote: vikingfan

but I don't quite want to run up a lynch right at this moment.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Well I will go out and say it now I have two very strong reads on town players, QF and WK. I will give a brief mention of certain things that leads me to believe this.
WK that whole DD is innoccent thing I cant imagine coming from scum. If he knew DD to be innocent a mild hmm im not sure about this lynch would be acceptable but his huge defence was IMO a good read on DD. WK has done nothing too scummy to have tweaked my scum senses and I am happy to read him as town for from this point untill further notice.
QF is very capable of providing good content and large posts. She was very similar to me around DDs lynch. Not being fully convinced about his lynch and seemingly not wanting to comit a vote. I see this behaviour as style style style not alignment. After being pressured about it there was no crumbling to vote or join in on the bandwagon. I believe that this not moving to follow trends and get out of the spotlight to be a strong indication of town.

So this leaves 4 to consider: Talitha, Akonas, Pink Puppy, Vikingfan.

At this stage I am most uneasy about Vikingfan and I would like to hear his thoughts and maybe a claim in the near future.
So

Vote:Vikingfan

PP I see your style now as the dog that sees something and sinks its teeth in. If the thing you bite wriggles you hold firmer if it relaxes and doesnt fight you let it go. Is this actual scum hunting or more the apearence of scum hunting. I am not sure. The ferociousness with which you bite but then let go is a worry to me.

[Pink Puppy]

VoD... you don't explain why you are uneasy about vikingfan. Also, your vote puts him at L-1, since I am pretty sure Akonas's vote counts. I could be wrong, but he bolds a "vote vikinfan." There is at least the possibility that it counts. And for you to go vote vikingfan right after with no explanation other than you feel "uneasy" about him, is highly suspicious. Especially after you tried to make me seem all overagressive for voting you, this vote seems highly contradictory.

[QuantumFruit]

@Akonas: I don't want the game to be distracted by joke votes and I think it's foolish if suspicions are based only on a joke vote. If there is other evidence anyone wants to bring against me, that is fine and I welcome it. Are you FOS-ing me for the joke vote or not wanting windkirby to be distracted or distract others by a joke vote?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok PP you have a very good point about Akonas vote possibly counting, I didn't think about that so for fear of a quick lynch

unvote:vikingfan

.

Now about PP: I am more on my way to formulating an acurate guess as to your alignment but further off about vikingfans. You I can count on posting on your own accord rather frequently to help this process but vikingfan I am a lot further off from having any accurate view. A vote in his direction will hopefuly be useful to me getting closer to his alignment.

As for viking fan it is a question of contribution as the game has gone on his input has grown less and less, as numbers get less chances of being noticed as scummy increase. I have a very uneasy feeling about all this and feel that viking has a night action that has led him to want to fly under the radar. I think L-2 is enough pressure to get something of content from vikingfan.

Having a read through vikingfan the biggest thing that bothers me is his actions about dd. He never brings any real case of substance about re dd but instead makes a few minor points and uses everyone elses more convincing analysis about dd saying he agrees with all this to justify his vote.

That being said, I'm still entirely happy with darkdude and in fact will vote him, for all the reasons already mentioned, both by myself and others. Hanging back, making lame excuses, and so forth. vote darkdude

This I can see as typical fly low mafia tactics of let town do the case building and when things look good slip the vote in. Same sort of bahaviour by him in the moz lynch also has been noted.

[windkirby]

@windkirby: I'm sorry - what? Why do you keep going back to the joke vote as evidence? Can't you dig up something more telling or reasonable than a bad joke? Also, not cool that Cephrir picking a townie pet and tricking me with flattery is getting me in trouble. So not cool.

It was not so much the "joke vote" that got me but the way you reacted to its interrogation - it contained a hint of "I'm being attacked for the wrong reason" in it to me, which is a scumtell in my book, and Cephrir's defense of you seemed very forced. This being a pet townie act seems

possible

, but with your lack of vote at the deadline yesterday, which is basically supporting a no lynch, I think it warrants a vote.

[vikingfan]

Sorry, had a busy weekend. Will reread and post in response to everybody tomorrow...tired now.

[Crub]

Second Vote Count of Day 3

thevampireofdusseldorf (1):

Pink Puppy

vikingfan (1):

Talitha

QuantumFruit (1):

windkirby

Not Voting (4):

thevampireofdusseldorf, QuantumFruit, vikingfan, Akonas

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Sorry for being slack guys, I'll get onto prods now.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

...

[vikingfan]

Finally back- my apologies folks. been extremely busy lately with a job search and a suicide in my sister-in-law's family. back now though.

Now, to examine thoroughly what people are saying about me. Akonas: I see you as being suspicious because Cephrir consistently said he was going to create a case on you and then said that he would wait since he didn't seem likely to be nightkilled. Well, he was. That raises my eyebrows quite a bit that he wasn't willing to take a stand on you. Moreover, he raised suspicions on Akonas without ever really making a case as TVOD noted earlier on in the game. It smells an awful lot like distancing to me. I also don't like QF's refusal to vote yesterday and her reasoning for doing so. Those two jump most clearly to my mind. Response to Akonas again: well, at that point, 3 players hadn't posted and I wanted to hear their thoughts. Unfortunately at that point real life was interfering but I did want to hear what they had to say.

TVOD, I don't have much to respond to in your post, but hopefully my prior paragraph helps you better see what I'm thinking. if you have questions, let me know. and as I read your next post, I see that you're accusing me of using everyone else's arguments. let me put it this way. when everyone else is using the same arguments that you want to use, is it worthwhile to repeat the same argument? everyone, for example, had the same argument with moz's idiocy.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Viking after such a long wait for content from you you do not fill me with much hope....I am not happy with your play at all and feel it is time to put the pressure on.

Vote:Vikingfan

You have given a really lame excuse for playing it safe. I feel you have added almost nothing new to the game and thus are most likely IMO to be hiding something.
Using everyone elses arguments is fine as long as you contribute your own to the table and I find you have done very little of this and am not gonna let you off the hook for this.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Oh and as a side note happy birthday Crub!

[windkirby]

Remember that Cephrir-QuantumFruit-VoD scumgroup I mentioned a while back? I'm starting to think I was right. VoD, you have been "playing it safe" more than vikingfan- you didn't even vote yesterday! I don't even see where vikingfan uses someone else's arguments.

fos: VoD

for such lousy reasoning to vote.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Wk have you done a look at all post by user, if you have I find it hard for you to call me out on "playing it safe" in the context I used it more than vf.

And look here....

I'm still entirely happy with darkdude and in fact will vote him, for all the reasons already mentioned,

Wk are you purposely trying to misrepresent my points made or do you not agree with them or do you not understand them.

[Akonas]

Viking after such a long wait for content from you you do not fill me with much hope....I am not happy with your play at all and feel it is time to put the pressure on.

Vote:Vikingfan

You have given a really lame excuse for playing it safe. I feel you have added almost nothing new to the game and thus are most likely IMO to be hiding something.
Using everyone elses arguments is fine as long as you contribute your own to the table and I find you have done very little of this and am not gonna let you off the hook for this.

scummyscummyscummyscummy.