NY 213 - Game Over!
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Krazy
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Krazy Jack of All TradesKrazy
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Krazy
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Krazy Jack of All TradesKrazy
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viewtopic.php?p=7787619#p7787619Lynching/wagoning you is far too troublesome so i'd take the easy route; sheep you and then buddy you for a bit
OK. Since town either today or tomorrow seems to want to wrestle defeat from the jaws of victory, we will do one more push. Ultimately I cannot make you guys win. It's really up to you.
But let's just do full meta breakdown of GR.
Let's look at a data bracket of:
Spoiler:
So let's begin with a few basic observations.
First,GR clearly has an inverted meta. What I mean by this is that GR's involvement is the opposite of that of a player like Creature. She tries very hard as scum, but as town she very often gets bored and replaces out. Now, in fairness, this level of GR involvement is something new regardless. But the first point to establish here is that you should NOT take high activity GR as being town indicative. Even if GR has replaced in after hundreds of posts have already been put out, GR will still be in the top posters for a game as scum. Whereas, GR hardly ever is in the top posters as town.
Partly this is becauseas scum GR puts on active town theater.
Let's consider how GR constructs a list as a TPR
Spoiler:
as TPR, GR constructs a list, indicates who is town and who is scum just going down. While there are "potential scum" there's really only town, scum and potential town. But of course she plays a lot of games, this isn't the only way she makes a list.
Spoiler:
Here we have a VT GR read list. How is this different than the TPR list? Well, there's a simple explanation for each read. This is because GR knows that if her pushes are going to have merit there needs to be an explanation behind her reasoning. And she needs weight behind her pushes because she needs to find scum as town.
Now, what does GR do with lists as scum?
Spoiler:
Well what's the first thing you notice here? Well, there's more than one list! This is what I mean by active!town theater. GR is constantly throwing out full read lists as scum, making small edits, because she wants to showcase just how much she is trying to sort and her entire view of the game state.
Spoiler:
What the fuck are we even looking at here? Look at how many full read lists with very little variation and only a few explanations are given here. None of these read lists are really developing her push in a significant way. But they all give the IMPRESSION she is trying to sort. It is CONSTANT revision of a full reads list that is pure theater.
"OK" you're saying, "GR gives a lot of read lists early in the game. That's not that scummy right?"
But that's just part of it, GR is constantly dropping little 'seeming pro-town' actions, like:
Mod/deadline extensions:
Scum game:
This game:@mod do we get a deadline extension?
As scum, GR does more: "Hey look at me guys I'm online, who wants to talk?"In post 3257, Golden Robster wrote:@mod can we get an extension on the deadline since we need two replacements, not just one
Spoiler:
What does she do in this game?
Spoiler:
Scum GR LOVES Active Town Theater, and it is something that is largely scum indicative for her.vote conspiracy-
Krazy
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Krazy Jack of All TradesKrazy
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Now let's talk about vote progression:
Here is a VT unvote --UNVOTE: Pisskop
And then GR revotes a while after reassessing. It does happen.
I emphasize that there are exceptions to the rule here, but I want to say that they 'prove the rule.'
Here is what you will usually see from GR:
viewtopic.php?p=7677974#p7677974Also, add Boon to the lynch pile as well. His slot looks complete shit from the votes alone.
UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: UTL
viewtopic.php?p=7891879#p7891879VOTE: Java
LEZ GO
(GR never "unvotes" in this game)
viewtopic.php?p=7682046#p7682046UNVOTE: Dwlee
VOTE: Rask
viewtopic.php?p=7704779#p7704779UNVOTE: Massive
VOTE: Oceanwind
viewtopic.php?p=7797112#p7797112i have balanced all
brought all to mind
and we should now bandwagon
VOTE: Slandaar
(VT GR never unvotes in this game)
viewtopic.php?p=7797094#p7797094VOTE: kts
wagon this
(GR never unvotes in this game)
viewtopic.php?p=7708769#p7708769UNVOTE:
VOTE: Maxous
You really think an RVS wagon would transition into a full scale lynch.
As you can see, in the general pattern, GR either votes, or unvotes and IMMEDIATELY votes another player. This is because GR's TOWN philosophy is to APPLY PRESSURE WITH VOTES. She applies pressure with votes to get content and solidify her read. She puts pressure on slots because she wants to lynch scum.
Now, let's compare to GR's voting pattern in this game:
In post 602, Golden Robster wrote:
throwing shade and painting my unvote as a scummy narrative when I said I'm thinking and re-evaluating?In post 562, Vaxkiller wrote:It feels like you voted your scum buddy for some distancing then it backfired, now hes yelling at you in scumchat.
:s
VOTE: VaxkillerIn post 2078, Golden Robster wrote:VOTE: Hopkirk
what would you say if I said I had a guilty on your slotThis is not how Town!GR plays mafia. This is how Scum!GR plays mafia. Scum!GR does unvote, pause, vote, because Scum!GR wants to play up her active!town theater and also get the impact of 'unvoting' on a player. Oh, I thought you were scum, but BECAUSE I AM THINKING ABOUT THE GAME, I have changed my mind! Power scum like GR LOVE the emphasis on how much THOUGHT she is putting into the game. But this is actually a scum tell, because town!GR doesn't care if people think she is thinking about the game, she just tries to lynch scum.
This is why GR has so many hundreds of posts in this game. Because EVERY TIME she decides that town!GR has had a thought, she makes a post. Because she has to prove to town JUST HOW MUCH she is thinking about the game.
It is fake. She is scum. She must be lynched.vote conspiracy-
Ankamius
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Ankamius SurvivorAnkamius
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Krazy
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Krazy Jack of All TradesKrazy
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Now let's talk about Texcat.
GR has often had texcat as fairly scummy, or "meh" -- what does "meh" mean anyway?In post 2153, Golden Robster wrote:Town: Ausuka (conf town) (3p hood)
Leaning Town: KK, Gamma, ETL, FA
------- (town block)
Semi-leaning Town: Hopkirk, Dunstrall, Pine
------- (not willing to lynch above)
Kind of town: Android, Wavemode (3p hood), Lalendra
Neutral/Undecided: Mylon (UD), PP (UD)
Meh: JJD, FL, Texcat, AA9, Whemestar
Leaning Scum: Vax*, Creature, Scioness
Scum:
In post 246, Golden Robster wrote:
Probably just a passing comment and not her full reads; texcat, why are you voting osuka?In post 245, texcat wrote:But what about Myloninja? He doesn't get a tr?
Here's a question. Why does this question not have a vote?
Let's compare to Town!GR:
viewtopic.php?p=7704767#p7704767
And presumably you scum read masquerade since your voting him.In post 62, OceanWind wrote:
VOTE: Masquerade
I have townreads on Keyser Soze and mn.
Why?
I disagree with both of those reads but go ahead. Explain.
viewtopic.php?p=7704779#p7704779UNVOTE: Massive
VOTE: Oceanwind
When GR does not like a question, or does not like a slot's reaction, she votes the slot.
But GR doesn't do this for texcat.
GR's read of texcat changes early on to become a "potential lynch" -- but she never votes texcatIn post 362, Golden Robster wrote:Town:
Leaning Town: A50, KK
------- (town block)
Semi-leaning Town: Osuka, Pine
Kind of town:
Neutral/Undecided: Charles (N), Ausuka (UD)
Meh: JJD, Texcat, Hopkirk
Leaning Scum:
Scum:
Potential lynches:JJD, Texcat, Hopkirk
Reads right now; haven't listed everybody because some people only have votes and zero content so not taking this seriously but where I'm at right now
Great point! Where's the vote?In post 533, Golden Robster wrote:
thisIn post 528, Scioness Sajj wrote:texcat- you have asked a lot of questions - do you have any conclusions? or just reads.
texcat is all questions and zero commitment
just pings me like passive scum acting town with lack of actual followup and zero interest in the questions they're asking in the first place
Let's go back to our observation from earlier:
What the fuck? GR goes from "texcat is a potential lynch" and "texcat is not producing content" to "unvote JJD" to "vote Vax" -- WHY?In post 602, Golden Robster wrote:
throwing shade and painting my unvote as a scummy narrative when I said I'm thinking and re-evaluating?In post 562, Vaxkiller wrote:It feels like you voted your scum buddy for some distancing then it backfired, now hes yelling at you in scumchat.
:s
VOTE: Vaxkiller
This progression MAKES NO SENSE and it is NOT how GR plays town
And then what happens next?
WHAT? Why is Texcat now back to "Meh"?In post 933, Golden Robster wrote:Town:
Leaning Town: A50, KK, Pine
------- (town block)
Semi-leaning Town: Osuka, Creature
Kind of town: Hopkirk, Dunnstral, Scioness, Android
Neutral/Undecided: Lalendra (N), Lovebird (dave) (UD), Whemestar (N), Wavemode (N), Rampage (N), Mylon (N)
Meh: Texcat, JJD, ETL, Lalendra
Leaning Scum: Performer, Vax
Scum:
And here's where you can see the active!town theater leads into a play strategy. Texcat is ALWAYS SCUMMY, but never the lynch in GR's early game. She can ALWAYS BUS LATER, but she doesn't want texcat lynched today. THIS IS HOW GR PLAYS SCUMIn post 936, Golden Robster wrote:Town:
Leaning Town: A50, KK, Pine
------- (town block)
Semi-leaning Town: Osuka, Creature
Kind of town: Hopkirk, Dunnstral, Scioness, Android, Ausuka
Neutral/Undecided: Lalendra (N) (kind of meh), Lovebird (dave) (UD), Whemestar (N), Wavemode (N), Rampage (N), Mylon (N), FL (N)
Meh: Texcat, JJD, ETL,
Leaning Scum: Performer (could be scum or playstyle pinging), Vax
Scum:
Lynches: Vax > Performer > Tex > ETL
WHAT? WHY IS TEXCAT NOW TOWN?In post 5030, Golden Robster wrote:
my take on this wagon right nowDunnstral(6) ~ JarJarDrinks(9), Creature(12), PenguinPower(8), Texcat(4), Gamma Emerald(10), Skygazer(11), tchill, GR
JJD - leaning hard town
Creature - undecided
PP - leaning hard town
texcat - surface town
gamma emerald - surface mafia
skygazer - leaning town
tchill - surface town/potential mafia
Ah, but the question isn't WHY is texcat town. The question is WHEN is texcat town. Texcat becomes town in GR's reads WHEN WAGONS DEVELOP ON HER.
But GR continues to poke questions at texcat, but never puts a vote on it. Why is there no vote on texcat after THIS question?In post 5916, Golden Robster wrote:
no I'm asking you for actual reasoning that compelled you to vote tbg and not half-hearted reasoning that you made up on the spotIn post 5897, texcat wrote:You asked for my reasons and I gave them to you. They may not be the best reasons, they may not be a convincing case on TBG, but they are not fake. Oh, or were you expecting me to say that your case on TBG is what convinced me?
where was your TBG predecessor scumread stated?
This is bullshit and completely at odds with how town!GR plays mafiaIn post 6069, Golden Robster wrote:if tex was scum she would 100% be making more of an effort to appear town right now; her last post was awful
the fact that she doesn't look like she gives a shit means that she's either pro scum (which I 100% doubt) or town that doesn't care (which I believe right now)
This is bullshit and completely at odds with how GR approaches scumhunting as town.In post 6100, Golden Robster wrote:texcat had a flash wagon on her brought down to L-2 and she did nothing to defend herself; how is that survivalistic?
hard lurking isn't alingment indicative so don't give me that shit; you didn't wagon mylo or vax for that
Sky has already made a big part of this case. Sky has already observed--GR's progression on Texcat makes ZERO sense. I want to re-emphasize that not only is GR's progression on texcat totally illogical but it is also TOTALLY at odds with how town!GR plays mafia.
This is scum voting a counter-wagon on town to protect a buddy that she spent the first half of this game calling scum, randomly switched to town, and then INDIRECTLY defended by pushing counter-wagons while she was being run up.
vote conspiracy-
Krazy
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Krazy Jack of All TradesKrazy
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So let's review:
What evidence is there that GR is town?
None.
-We already know scum committed to bussing Wheme, and GR joined on Wheme after the wagon was already fully formed.
-GR did NOT bus texcat but used WIFOM to argue that she wouldn't
-GR was put into a position where she has to crossbus after the texcat vote because the masons and townblock had grown too large
Where is the evidence that GR is scum?
Everywhere.
-GR Is constantly playing up scumhunting theater while rarely developing reads into sustained arguments and rarely getting wagon support for her pushes. Remember, when she is town, she pushes to get people to join her wagons and sheep her vote.
-She goes out of her way to foreground 'active town play' with little barrages of small posts
-She is constantly unvoting and revoting, always playing up her decision making process rather than emphasizing the pressure she's putting on wagons
-She is constantly tweaking her own little lists to play up her appearance of sorting while never actually committing to half her reads
-Her development on texcat is totally incoherent and her counter-push on Scion was inconceivable for a town!GR
-Texcat's interactions with her are forced and very puffery, and always include an additional response to JJD because texcat doesn't trust herself to only respond to a scumbuddy
-Gamma's interactions with her are incredibly fake and totally at odds with how both vote
-She has unloaded a massive wave of AtE and why-meisms as soon as she was under pressure which is TOTALLY consistent with how she plays scum when she's under pressurevote conspiracy-
Krazy
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Krazy Jack of All TradesKrazy
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Anyway, I'm sure Ank will spam like 5000 fucking little response so this gets pushed back to an earlier page by the time anyone logs on, but GR is basically playing her scum game to a T and she absolutely should get lynched today. I know Ank will throw nonstop shade at me while quoting herself or something and saying the word "gamestate read" three times a post, and then GR will come in and say I'm tunneling because that is literally the only rebuttal GR has ever offered. But I do at some point need some mixture of TBG, Creature, Mylo, and Sky to actually lynch GR if we are going to win this game.vote conspiracy-
Ankamius
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Ankamius SurvivorAnkamius
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Golden Robster
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Golden Robster Mafia Scum Golden Robster
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Golden Robster
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Golden Robster Mafia Scum Golden Robster
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This inverted meta argument points to me being town (even though meta is awful); my involvement is based on my emotional investment into the game; if I'm doing great in a game I'll be more invested to actually post content vs. not being great and not doing anythingIn post 7426, Krazy wrote:First, GR clearly has an inverted meta. What I mean by this is that GR's involvement is the opposite of that of a player like Creature. She tries very hard as scum, but as town she very often gets bored and replaces out. Now, in fairness, this level of GR involvement is something new regardless. But the first point to establish here is that you should NOT take high activity GR as being town indicative. Even if GR has replaced in after hundreds of posts have already been put out, GR will still be in the top posters for a game as scum. Whereas, GR hardly ever is in the top posters as town.
this is factually wrong and slightly offensivebut as town she very often gets bored and replaces out
which derails everything you've just said about in terms of meta; tell me what year those games were in and tell me the date nowNow, in fairness, this level of GR involvement is something new regardless
factually wrong again; the two scum games I were in the first one I won because I lived to endgame so it makes sense that I was top posterEven if GR has replaced in after hundreds of posts have already been put out, GR will still be in the top posters for a game as scum. Whereas, GR hardly ever is in the top posters as town.
second scum game I was 5th?-
Golden Robster
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lab rat mafia that I finished recently; these reads are literally the same as the ones I post here which point to me being town krazyHere we have a VT GR read list. How is this different than the TPR list? Well, there's a simple explanation for each read. This is because GR knows that if her pushes are going to have merit there needs to be an explanation behind her reasoning. And she needs weight behind her pushes because she needs to find scum as town.
Now, what does GR do with lists as scum?
Spoiler:
Well what's the first thing you notice here? Well, there's more than one list! This is what I mean by active!town theater. GR is constantly throwing out full read lists as scum, making small edits, because she wants to showcase just how much she is trying to sort and her entire view of the game state.
In post 201, Golden Robster wrote:Town:
Leaning Town: UnrealSeal, Ircher
Semi-leaning Town: Joral
Kind of town: TE
Neutral/undecided: N_M, PP, Espeonage, KK
Meh: Hopkirk, Creature, Byron
Leaning Scum: Performer,
Scum:
Potential Lynches: Byron, Hopkirk, Creature, Performer
Going to post my reasoning and explanations later.In post 466, Golden Robster wrote:Town: UnrealSeal
Leaning Town: Ircher, JJD
------- (town block)
Semi-leaning Town: Hopkirk
Kind of town: Creature
Neutral/undecided: Performer, Projectmatt
Meh: PP, TE
Leaning Scum:
Scum: N_M-
Golden Robster
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Golden Robster Mafia Scum Golden Robster
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Golden Robster
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d6*In post 7424, wavemode wrote:what about what transpired yesterday nullifies what parts of my reasoning, exactly?
counter-wagon to scum, gamma was first vote and pushed me non-stop all of d6?-
wavemode
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wavemode Mafia Scum wavemode
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he briefly voted you day 5. on day 6 he was like the 6th vote overall, if you factor in people who unvoted
not that any of this proves much in the first place. you yourself want to lynch vax, who tex wheme and gamma all pushed. even you recognize that bussing is the game of mafia, even at times when from the outside we might say "it's bad strategy for scum to have bussed there"retired...?-
Ircher
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Vaxkiller
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Vaxkiller Jack of All Trades Vaxkiller
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Vaxkiller
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Im flipping town so dont friggin make that mistake.-
Vaxkiller
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real quick krazy mylo and creature are town-
Vaxkiller
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ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.-
Vaxkiller
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mylo could you please reconsider.-
Ankamius
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This is a caught scum reads listIn post 7443, Vaxkiller wrote:ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.-
Ankamius
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Ankamius SurvivorAnkamius
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In post 7442, Vaxkiller wrote:real quick krazy mylo and creature are town
Scum partner, slot doing nothing, and slot shielding him is townIn post 7443, Vaxkiller wrote:ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.
Slots that think the counterwagon is scum is suspicious
Miscellaneous slots on counterwagon are looking townier
This is so fake-
Vaxkiller
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Vaxkiller Jack of All Trades Vaxkiller
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Do you already have your responses ready for when I flip town?In post 7446, Ankamius wrote:In post 7442, Vaxkiller wrote:real quick krazy mylo and creature are town
Scum partner, slot doing nothing, and slot shielding him is townIn post 7443, Vaxkiller wrote:ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.
Slots that think the counterwagon is scum is suspicious
Miscellaneous slots on counterwagon are looking townier
This is so fake
"Oh he wasnt being towny enough.... we all thought... it's not my fault..."
Yeah ok.-
Ankamius
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Ankamius SurvivorAnkamius
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Vaxkiller
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Vaxkiller Jack of All Trades Vaxkiller
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Can we all lynch ank instead?
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