California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh God, OhGodMyLife, you are such total scum!

You find LML scummy cause SensFan piled on Xtomx-town.
You find Rogueben scummy cause he's protecting Xtomx-scum!

You "agree with the case on BBMars" but don't say who what when or why!

Oh God, are you scum. Your list of suspicions is one of the worst fabrications I've ever seen. There's no internal consistency and nearly no specifics. Thank you for making it so easy to spot you--would you kindly post another lack of suspicions list so we can find your remaining partners!

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

BBMars: 4 (MichelSableheart, NabakovNabakov, Rogueben, Xtoxm)
MrBuddyLee: 2 (OhGodMyLife, vollkan)
OhGodMyLife: 2 (Gaspar, MrBuddyLee)
MichelSableheart: 1 (Thesp)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (Niv)
Thesp: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)

Current Condorcet Winner:

BBMars

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[OhGodMyLife]

You find LML scummy cause SensFan piled on Xtomx-town.
You find Rogueben scummy cause he's protecting Xtomx-scum!

Those suspicions represent two divergent possibilities. Obviously one of those two would drop off of my suspicion list depending on Xtoxm's alignment. What is wrong with listing both? I am clearly not trying to lynch either of them based on that suspicion at this point, but I am presenting my opinion as it is now.

For god's sake, he doesn't even rebut the case against him

Your case against me was that I hadn't engaged in any scumhunting yet. How am I supposed to rebut that when, as I freely admitted, its true. Other than pointing out this lack of scumhunting from me, you went into hyperbole mode and used increasingly strong language to deride for this same fact over and over again. I can't rebut your initial point, but I have done what I can to remedy the problem of not contributing by, get this, contributing. You had obviously already reached the conclusion that I am scum, and not taken into account that I could be anything else (lazy, stupid, a suboptimal player), and therefore what I did contribute is apparently meaningless in your eyes. Not everybody in this game is the paragon of mafia players that you seem to take yourself to be. You will be the one who looks foolish when you are proven wrong in your assertion that I am such total scum.

I would also appreciate it if you could remain civil - regardless of your opinion of my alignment in this game, I don't want to be called a creep.

[Thesp]

Also, major FOS to Gaspar for zeroing in (incorrectly) on my bait (setup speculation about the basement) and ignoring the crux of my point which is that OGML has played scummily.

...

What do you think of MichelSableheart?

does having see him play this way as town in the past make him town? I do not see how having played like this before as town makes him any more likley town,

or the playstyle any less scummy.

What do you mean by scummy? If it's to mean "something more likely to be done by town", which is the most sensible meaning, your assertion is absurd here.

I'd like to string up MichelSableheart (obv), but I like the MBL pressure and want to see where this goes.

Vote: MrBuddyLee

, MichelSableheart, RogueBen, Xtoxm, BBMars, Niv, OhGodMyLife, {(All players not listed)}, LoudmouthLee, Gaspar, No Lynch, Thesp

[Niv]

If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow. And I'm not wrong.

...you know, thats a really dumb thing to say no matter what you're alignment is.

QFT

ckd, what is your opinion on OGML?

I am leaning town. LIke I said when i first came into the game today, he had plenty of time to hammer me with Gorrad and he did not take it...he could have easily hammered me with his first couple posts and fall back on (today) that Gorrad was being scummy because he felt Gorrad had inside information (at least one scum in each group)...hell, he could have hammered me and spun today that in retrospect, gorrad's push for my lynch was scummy. This would have given him another target today that he could have organized with his scum buddies last night. Now I think about it, he could have organized an attack on me today if he was scum pretty easily. Once he got into the thread today and saw there was no way he could reference or quote the basement, he could have lied about how events went down in the basement, or at least slanted the truth somewhat.

He also didnt immediately hammer Gorrad when he had the shot either, and gave him time to address my post.

I understand it could have been a ruse to earn some town creds, but the way that it went down yesterday makes me think otherwise.

Reading this, it almose makes me feel thay you are scum for some strange eason, bt i just cant put my finger on it. it may be nothing. but it does irk me a little bit the wrong way

Niv - You are only listed above {People} because of your last line of Post 451 (which is what put you on my last condorcet) and for your response to my complaint about that, in Post 479 where you acknowledge that you "must have missed the other two" but do nothing to change your condorcet to reflect that.

The first issue is a theroy issue, the second is that I jut have not got around to changing my concordent, Which i am doing now. also, Thinking about it, it's probally no voteworthy in this senario. or atleast when this is the only issue i see agains you.

Also, moving BB up in my concordent for lynch assurance.

UnVote, Vote

BBMars,

Pooky

, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

does having see him play this way as town in the past make him town? I do not see how having played like this before as town makes him any more likley town,

or the playstyle any less scummy.

What do you mean by scummy? If it's to mean "something more likely to be done by town", which is the most sensible meaning, your assertion is absurd here.

What do you mean by "what do you mean by scummy" when the next thing you say is "something more likely to be done by town".

I think you just made a grammar error, but i'd like some clarification here

[Rogueben]

Rogueben - Something about your day one play made me uneasy, and I also think you're one of the more likely to have been trying to get the wagon off of Xtoxm to save a scumbuddy. Post 365 also looks to me like a warning to a scumbuddy to stop being dumb, since you bring up his poor play but don't actually come to a conclusion as to it meaning anything.

I've played with Xtoxm before and seen this playstyle, which often seems scummy at the start. Also poor play =/ scummy play. So I find this quite lacking.

MBL's post 525 has convinced me to vote for OGML. In particular his reasons for top 4 lynch candidates seem pretty weak and contrived to me.

Unvote, Vote: OGML

, BBMars, Niv, [people], NoLynch, Rogueben

[MrBuddyLee]

{People} - I don't have strong feelings on anybody I didn't specifically list. The only one I want to mention is Pooky. I'm not a fan of his method but I don't think its scummy and obviously he isn't going to change it for me if he's unwilling to do so after heated discussion with Vollkan and the repeated attacks from Niv. I hope on later days your tactics will change.

So no opinion on Thesp or Gaspar? You find Xtomx suspect for agreeing with Gaspar. Gaspar's the most prolific player in this game. You have no opinion on Gaspar? Does not compute. Makes me wonder what he's offered you to stay out of his basement.

Also, why comment on Pooky's method and not his actual Buy/Sell recommendations?

You had obviously already reached the conclusion that I am scum, and not taken into account that I could be anything else (lazy, stupid, a suboptimal player)

I actually did my homework, because I recalled hearing something about you. You're a very capable scumhunter, that is, when you're not scum.

Also, I don't think you're a literal creep, I just like the imagery of something creepy slinking up from the basement overnight. Please don't kill us all! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

[MichelSableheart]

I made it very clear that my setup speculation was entirely intended to point out that a PLAYER, not the mod, probably chose the players to put in the basement. There is nothing extremely dangerous or craplogicky about that. Your insinuation that I'm trying to set up any kind of double lynch on CKD is a LIE. Utter fabrication. YOU ARE SCUM.

If your main intention was to hint that a player decided who would end up in the basement, it wouldn't have been a reason for suspicion of OGML. However, the way you formulated your post, it was a strong reason for suspicion, whereas the possibility of a player choosing who ends up in the basement was deeply hidden in the wording of your post. Basically, I don't believe you when you say your setup speculation was entirely intended to point out that a player chose who to put in the basement.

I also believe it's not a good idea to lynch OGML today. It's extremely improbable that he and CKD are scum together, and both seem quite convinced the other is town.

Unvote

Vote: BBMars

, LoudmouthLee, MrBuddyLee, {people}, OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog, {missing people}, No Lynch, MichelSableheart

[vollkan]

Rogueben - Something about your day one play made me uneasy, and I also think you're one of the more likely to have been trying to get the wagon off of Xtoxm to save a scumbuddy. Post 365 also looks to me like a warning to a scumbuddy to stop being dumb, since you bring up his poor play but don't actually come to a conclusion as to it meaning anything.

This is conspiratorial and misleading.

I don't like the way Xtoxm has come out of the gates today. His attacks against OGML and CKD seem like they have been formed in a very rushed way, without thinking clearly. However, I 'm not sure whether this is just Xtoxm thinking things through before posting, or whether it's him building BS cases.

@Ben: Is that meant to say "Xtoxm not thinking things through"? The context would strongly imply that, but maybe there is something I am missing.

He opens by saying he doesn't like the play. His conclusion is that it might be Xtoxm [not] thinking things through, or just BS cases. That's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw based on a single piece of evidence.

Tell me, exactly what conclusion were you expecting him to draw? Have you analysed that post and come to a proper conclusion? If not, can you do so?

[Rogueben]

@Ben: Is that meant to say "Xtoxm not thinking things through"? The context would strongly imply that, but maybe there is something I am missing.

Yes. That's exactly what I meant. I really have to remember to preview and read my posts to make sure they make sense before I post them.

@Michel. Do you find the current case against OGML that lacking that you think he is less likely to be scum than almost everyone else alive?

[curiouskarmadog]

Reference to post 519…

Is this plausible, though? I mean, if OGML makes an outrageous lie about the basement, it means that the other remaining basementer will challenge him and one of you will be lynched, with the other sitting in the wings if that person is town.

Yes it is plausible. I don’t have a game with OGML that he was scum that I can meta….for the time being, I think he is more townish than several others in this game.

tl;dr: I think the scent of fake blood brought out some jackals. Keep an eye on Gaspar, OGML, vollkan and possibly Nabokov.

your thoughts on Gaspar, now he has taken up your cause?…Especially after your dumbass comment…

If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow. And I'm not wrong.

Reference to post 529

Reading this, it almose makes me feel thay you are scum for some strange eason, bt i just cant put my finger on it. it may be nothing. but it does irk me a little bit the wrong way

How easy is it to say something feels scummy about a post without any reason why? What is wrong with the post? What does my post make you think that I am implying that could possibly be scummy?


Gaspar (or anyone that was in Dantes in Fresno)

From reading the other Dantes (I find the game really troubling for a reason I will explain at a later date), one of the game mechanics for the mafia was that they were “unable to kill Edmond Dantès unless his identity is revealed”. Now as far as I can see there wasn’t a character named “Edmond Dantes” I haven’t read the 85 page game thoroughly though…so I am confused…can anyone shed a light on that for me?

The reason I ask is because if the mafia had the same mechanic in play this game, the ability of finding role names (niv)would really favor mafia over the town..

Revote coming soon…interested in some answers.

[Thesp]

does having see him play this way as town in the past make him town? I do not see how having played like this before as town makes him any more likley town,

or the playstyle any less scummy.

What do you mean by scummy? If it's to mean "something more likely to be done by town", which is the most sensible meaning, your assertion is absurd here.

What do you mean by "what do you mean by scummy" when the next thing you say is "something more likely to be done by town".

I think you just made a grammar error, but i'd like some clarification here

Oops - should read, "If it's to mean "something more likely to be done by

scum

", which is the most sensible meaning, your assertion is absurd here."

From reading the other Dantes (I find the game really troubling for a reason I will explain at a later date), one of the game mechanics for the mafia was that they were “unable to kill Edmond Dantès unless his identity is revealed”. Now as far as I can see there wasn’t a character named “Edmond Dantes” I haven’t read the 85 page game thoroughly though…so I am confused…can anyone shed a light on that for me?

As the mafia, we were able to guess one player to see if that player was Edmond Dantes or not. One night, Gaspar (if I recall correctly) correctly surmised that Mr. Grey was in fact Edmond Dantes, and we guessed that he was in fact Dantes, which kept us from pursuing what was ultimately a red herring through the game.

Happy with my vote.

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 71 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

BBMars: 3 (MichelSableheart, NabakovNabakov, Xtoxm)
MrBuddyLee: 3 (OhGodMyLife, Thesp, vollkan)
OhGodMyLife: 3 (Gaspar, MrBuddyLee, Rogueben)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (Niv)
Thesp: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)

Current Condorcet Winner:

BBMars

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[Niv]

Just wanted to be certain what the question was

does having see him play this way as town in the past make him town? I do not see how having played like this before as town makes him any more likley town,

or the playstyle any less scummy.

What do you mean by scummy? If it's to mean "something more likely to be done by

scum

", which is the most sensible meaning, your assertion is absurd here.

What I am saying is that if he has played like this as town before, it makes the playstyle no less scummy, and I will be treating it as such. If pooky wants to start contributing for real, that'd be nice, but for now he is not helping at all imo.

[curiouskarmadog]

niv, no comment on my last post?

[Xtoxm]

Whoa, didn't realise deadline was coming up so quick.

I'm happy with lynching either BBMars or OGML, deft not MBL.

I should be able to be online around thursday afternoon at the deadline.

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote: Niv

, Xtoxm, Rogueben, Gaspar {MichelSableheart, Thesp, LoudMouthLee}, vollkan, MrBuddyLee{everyone else}, OhMyGodLife, CKD

[curiouskarmadog]

slight change

{Vote: Niv, Xtoxm, Rogueben, Gaspar, {MichelSableheart, Thesp, LoudMouthLee}, vollkan, {everyone else}, OhMyGodLife, CKD}

my current read of MBL, is that he is a townie, tunnel visioning on OGML...not seeing his attack as a scum move, currently

as I dont prefer is lynch over BBMars (which I dont have a read on at all), I cant see him being higher on the list over BBMars.

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[OhGodMyLife]

On my way out the door to go to work, but I just skimmed whats happened and saw a question about games where I've been scum. This my only completed game as mafia: Newbie 507

Will be back after work for real posting

[Xtoxm]

I wish I was town as often as you...

[curiouskarmadog]

{

Vote: Niv

, Xtoxm, Rogueben, Gaspar, {MichelSableheart, Thesp, LoudMouthLee}, vollkan, {everyone else}, OhMyGodLife, CKD}

[Mr. Grey]

LoudmouthLee has received his first strike.

[Xtoxm]

I don't think Niv is a great lynch. With his power he can confirm 2 people's roles, be he scum or not. I think we should let him find out/clarify for his 2 investigations, atleast. It could wind up helping town even if he's scum.

[NabakovNabakov]

I agreed with what MBL had to say on OGML's "scumhunting" post before he even said it.

Thesp seems quite behind the times in general. Quoting that MBL post is

so

last week.

BBMars would be an acceptable lynch (LAL), but I think we have a better option in OGML.

Unvote; Vote: OhMyGodLIfe

, BBMars, Thesp, MichelSableHart, {others}, No Lynch, NabNab