California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[Xtoxm]

In that last line, replace what's with word's, lol.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

8 to lynch.

BBMars: 3 (MichelSableheart, NabakovNabakov, Rogueben)
Thesp: 3 (Gaspar, PookyTheMagicalBear, Xtoxm)
Niv: 1 (MrBuddyLee)

[BBMars]

Vollkan his point about popping was related to a pm between Flamaxe and Iammars that Flamaxe (BBMars) mentioned. Flameaxe said:

...and I've been waiting on my other head to pop in to respond to my PM...

In this case I agree with MBL, its possible that he is trying to get their story straight. Now that I've thought about this a little more I think this is actually quite a compelling point. There is no pro-town reason I can think of to wait around for the partner.

Vote: BBMars

What is so anti-town about one of the heads who hasn't had a chance to stay caught up in the game to consult with the other head? After all, we are two heads...Why shouldn't we talk...

NN: My reaction is "Go for it".

Still haven't finished reading, and my partner is AWOL. This week is a big test (ACT, mock AP) week for me, so don't expect a whole lot of posting until probably late Thursday or Friday. I'll probably print out a few pages to read in class this week though.

[vollkan]

so I was confused, is there a point?

"Innocent" is alignment, not role. The fact that you thought "Innocent" was a role indicates you were not aware of the fact that "Innocent" is an alignment, not a role. That, in turn, raises a reasonable question as to whether, if you are indeed "Innocent", you would neglect to realise that "Innocent" is simply an alignment,

[Xtoxm]

so I was confused, is there a point?

"Innocent" is alignment, not role. The fact that you thought "Innocent" was a role indicates you were not aware of the fact that "Innocent" is an alignment, not a role. That, in turn, raises a reasonable question as to whether, if you are indeed "Innocent", you would neglect to realise that "Innocent" is simply an alignment,

I've stated my opinion on this argument, I don't agree with it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

X,

Do you think CKD has a role pm with "Innocent" as his alignment?

If yes,

Do you think he read this role pm?

If yes,

Do you think he simply forgot what was in his role PM?

If yes,

What makes you believe he forgot what was in his role PM?

Sorry for being somewhat leading, if you would rather explain your thought process on why you don't agree with Vollkan in a different way, I'm certainly open to it.

[Xtoxm]

What makes you believe he forgot what was in his role PM?

It doesn't matter what the answer to the previous questions are - I believe the answer to this one is it's possible...As I just explained I myself had forgotten and part of my role PM.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Anything's possible, that ain't saying much.

[MichelSableheart]

Because only a name and alignment was listed…”innocent” could have easily been a role like “townie”. How did you automatically know that “innocent” was an alignment and not a role? Also, what is your point of asking that question?

Did you read Dantes in Fresno? Reveiling worked exactly the same in that game. Furthermore, there is the sample role pm in the first post, and your own role pm (if you're innocent, of course ). If you had discussed Gorrad's behaviour with OGML after Gorrad was lynched yesterday, IMO you would have figured out that it was alignement, not role. What I don't understand is why you immediately assumed a pro-town player was lying about his role, but did not discuss what his motivations for that could be. There's something very strange there.

also, on your list, why am I higher up on the vote than OGML?

Not for definite reasons yet, but OGML gave me better feelings then you did.

Xtoxm, in CT:DiF, the secret words had no relevance besides linking all the various fake Dantes'. I see no reason to assume that's different here, but even if there is, I'm not sure if it's wise to discuss.

[curiouskarmadog]

so I was confused, is there a point?

"Innocent" is alignment, not role. The fact that you thought "Innocent" was a role indicates you were not aware of the fact that "Innocent" is an alignment, not a role. That, in turn, raises a reasonable question as to whether, if you are indeed "Innocent", you would neglect to realise that "Innocent" is simply an alignment,

of come on...."Innocent" is also in the role name. I didnt read the other game so I was not familiar with how the roles/alignments are provided at death. I have never been in a game (that I can recall) that did not list the town role as well. I assumed that the town role would be provided too. Usually someone is listed as a "townie", I thought that "innocent" is another way to say "townie"... Please see game that I am Modding where I do this.

the fact is, i didnt really know until I asked the Mod. Now how far and long are you really willingly to keep pushing that vollkan? Isnt it true that in most games town and role are provided?

[curiouskarmadog]

If you had discussed Gorrad's behaviour with OGML after Gorrad was lynched yesterday, IMO you would have figured out that it was alignement, not role. What I don't understand is why you immediately assumed a pro-town player was lying about his role, but did not discuss what his motivations for that could be. There's something very strange there.

as I said, and OGML can verify, Gorrad was not acting very pro-twon. He came in voting for OGML and wanted me to hammer. When he claimed, he said his name that he was the Role Blocker.

when he died and all i also was his name and "innocent", nothing about Role blocker...I thought he lied..simple as that..I didnt know that the role wasnt provided until the mod sent me the PM.

I thought Gorrad lied just to save his ass. Why does anyone do whatever they do? I thought he was lying at the time, because I thought he was scum. When he died, I mentioned I thought he was lying and wondered why and then went on to post something like "gorrad, if you are still reading this, that really was a bad play"...

of come on...."Innocent" is also in the role name.

actually I just reread my PM again, the word "innocent" is not listed in my role name...Just my name. "innocent" is provided as an alignment. take from that what you will.

[Mr. Grey]

SensFan and Thesp have received their second strike.

[vollkan]

Now how far and long are you really willingly to keep pushing that vollkan?

Did I say it was a good argument? Did I escalate your number ranking? Did I FoS you? My exact words: "raises a reasonable question". My express use of those words impliedly excludes that I think it a compelling argument.

I agree entirely that your alleged mistake is perfectly reasonable, but it is also a reasonably possible scum error and, as such, inquiring about it is not unreasonable.

[OhGodMyLife]

When he died, I mentioned I thought he was lying and wondered why and then went on to post something like "gorrad, if you are still reading this, that really was a bad play"...

I do remember your post addressed to dead gorrad, but I didn't realize until the discussion in here with everybody that you still thought his being an RB had been a lie. I just assumed it was no role reveal, and we never discussed that in particular in the basement.

[curiouskarmadog]

Now how far and long are you really willingly to keep pushing that vollkan?

Did I say it was a good argument? Did I escalate your number ranking? Did I FoS you? My exact words: "raises a reasonable question". My express use of those words impliedly excludes that I think it a compelling argument.

I agree entirely that your alleged mistake is perfectly reasonable, but it is also a reasonably possible scum error and, as such, inquiring about it is not unreasonable.

fair enough

[Xtoxm]

I agree entirely that your alleged mistake is perfectly reasonable, but it is also a reasonably possible scum error and, as such, inquiring about it is not unreasonable.

Pooky - When I say that I mean I think it's suffieciently possible that an argument based on it can be discarded.

Btw, this defense of CKD doesn't mean I have a town read on him, I am unsure atm, I am just arguing...Against the argument, essentially.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL vibes kicking in strongly on OGML. Pure defensiveness, with a twinge of nasty little threats mixed in to shake town off his tail. And a few little details. Yuck. *shudders*

unvote, vote: OhGodMyLife

[NabakovNabakov]

For the record, my only intention in reposting the PM was to make sure everybody was on the same page regarding reveals. I consider the whole "well,

you

wouldn't know because your PM has a different allignment" idea to be underhanded and superficial, and if Vollkan placed just as little worth on it, I think a "reasonable question" is raised in: "Then why did he post it in the first place?"

[OhGodMyLife]

Nasty little threats, MBL? Where exactly have I been nasty or threatening. I haven't had a chance to really go through the thread and do any scum hunting yet, but I'm answering the questions posed of me and trying to clarify for people what happened in the basement. I'm not sure where you're drawing the conclusion that I'm trying to shake the town off of my tail, until you just came out of left field with this I wasn't aware there was anybody ON my tail to shake off.

[Xtoxm]

Looks like we're gonna need some replacements...Both for roles under suspicion...

(From me anyways)

[Niv]

Hey pooky:

Question for you:

What do you feel you hve contirbted to the game, and why?

[Thesp]

I am so, so sorry for my absence. Let me get caught up on my modding, and I'll be right back to read and catch up.

[Thesp]

Thesp needs to die today.

I respectfully disagree.

Thesp has 9 posts. 1 of them was very long, with a lot of content...But I think he still qualifies as lurking.

And sounds like you have a good reason, so i'm happy to go with this

and:

vote Thesp

This bothers me. I can understand the former entirely, but the latter is problematic. Perhaps Gaspar is scum and his "good reason" is I'm town? Perhaps his "good reason" is a paranoid cop investigation? Perhaps his "good reason" is actually pressure to see how I (and others) react, rather than deep justification? You're abrogating your duties here, which troubles me. He very well may have some compelling reasons, but I have yet to understand why you should have compelling reason to trust them.

Actually playing the game, I see no particular reason to disbelieve the account of what happened in the basement. If one was scum lying, the other townie would have exposed them, and them both being scum seems very unlikely just from the perspective that it would mean Gorrad got completely and unescapably screwed by the setup.

Agreed (unless there's the highly unlikely scenario that they're both scum, but for different factions/for themselves, but I find this to be dubious at best). I'm struggling to avoid potentially harmful speculation here.

I don't like the way Xtoxm has come out of the gates today. His attacks against OGML and CKD seem like they have been formed in a very rushed way, without thinking clearly. However, I 'm not sure whether this is just Xtoxm thinking things through before posting, or whether it's him building BS cases.

I remember why I had you up on my list earlier yesterday.

Glork was not busing Faerielord. Faerielord + Niv tell here.

Agreed 1000%.

I don't like BBMars, but I don't like the people

on

the BBMars wagon even more.

Vote: MichelSableheart

, RogueBen, Xtoxm, BBMars, Niv, OhGodMyLife, {(All players not listed)}, SensFan, Gaspar, No Lynch, Thesp

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I have contributed my thoughts.

I've done so because I want to kill scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

getting to a reread today or tomorrow..then will post thoughts...and questions.