Mini #564 - Mafia in Crubtown - Game Over

[darkdude]

Still pretty certain QF is town, maybe it's just because I tend to judge based on play as a whole and rarely vote based on a single post.

Well if you're going for WIFOM you may as well consider the fact that scum won't just generally try to be an obvious hindrance to the town. Therefore I think catching a few errors would outweigh any preconceptions.

Not to mention I found QF suspicious for a while now. That case with talitha was quite a few pages back.

[Akonas]

Basically, scumtells and playstyles are hard to tell apart?

That's what mafia is all about right? Otherwise it wouldn't be so hard.

Yeah. I was just pointing out that your post was somewhat convoluted.

I don't think there are many instances where someone is 100% sure. I'm not saying that we should only lynch with full confidence, but I'm merely giving an explanation to the divided opinions.

This seems contrary to PP and Cephrir's attacks on QF. What do you have to say to that?

---

Wow. I don't like that post at all. You basically said how you can see everyone being scum or being town, and you're not sure yet on anybody. Which is useless fence-sitting. All you're doing is muddying the waters, and impeding progress towards a lynch, which is not helpful when we have a deadline. I've tried to have patience with you and your obviously different playstyle, but this is ridiculous. If we all played like you we'd no-lynch every day.

And I think you're being much meaner to DD than DD ever was to Talitha. You said you don't respect his intellect and that he is annoying. I really don't like that at all coming from a player I had decided was so protective of people's feelings. The fact that you said you know it's hypocritical, does not make it any better for me. Not being sympathetic about people's RL commitments < insults and name-calling.

The only person you feel particularly negative against is DD, although you say you think he's town! Thanks for showing up to insult another player, sit the fence on EVERYBODY, and NOT VOTE after a deadline is posted. This behavior is not pro-town. It confuses people who have to go through your post and try to figure out where you stand on things, and see that you stand in the middle of every issue, seeing all sides and committing to nothing.

unvote; vote QF

Wow. I don't like that post. You basically just pounced. She's been like that all game; you acknowledged it yourself:

I realize Cephrir (and you) seem to have a different playstyle. A much more verbose, indirect style. I am trying to allow for that because I don't want to just suspect anyone who plays differently from me. BUT, the reason I do suspect it is because I think it can easily be manipulative. I like to be direct and concise, and I suspect people who aren't direct and concise, of hiding something. Not always, but it is something I watch out for. Dancing around the issue, answering it from the side, arguing about meanings of words... I am not a fan, and it makes me suspicious.

And you said it was suspicious before, but something bothers me here. What assuaged your suspicions on Cephrir? And why is this suddenly so scummy? If you want her suspicions, then

ask for them.

I am distressed by this latest sudden two votes on QF, especially windkirby's, especially because windkirby kinda just came back. However, I think I'd still be fairly happy with a darkdude lynch. It would clear up a few things; darkdude has the most controversy surrounding him, and a lynch would give us a lot of information (plus I consider him scum). However, I'm not going to vote 'till I come back.

[Crub]

Sixteenth Vote Count of Day 2

QuantumFruit (3):

darkdude, Pink Puppy, windkirby

darkdude (2):

Talitha, vikingfan

vikingfan (1):

Akonas

Cephrir (1):

EmpTyger

Akonas (1):

Cephrir

Not Voting (2):

thevampireofdusseldorf, QuantumFruit

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch, 3 at deadline in a little under 12 days.

[darkdude]

This seems contrary to PP and Cephrir's attacks on QF. What do you have to say to that?

I don't understand the question. I was giving an explanation on why people may seem to be obviously defending someone else. It is based on perspective of the playstyle, in the case when that behaviour is arbitrary. QF's case was based on her nonsensical accusation of me being mean. And most recently her case was the reaction.

This is irrelevant. I was saying WHY someone may be defending someone else (in the case of two players not being scum partners, obviously). This is completely different from whether that defense is good/logical or not.

[vikingfan]

I haven't forgotten about this game, but I have an important job interview tomorrow afternoon and will give my thoughts after that's done.

[windkirby]

windkirby:
I want an answer to this. Did you vote Cephrir because you’re actually suspicious of him, or to stop me from voting darkdude? If because you’re suspicious, then why exactly?

Oh sorry! I knew I was forgetting something.

I voted him mostly because I was suspicious of him, though I suppose not wishing to see dd near a lynch that is, IMO, undeserved, could have played a part. I am suspicious of Cephrir because I was getting a bad vibe from him, and also because I didn't like his large change from aggressive to passive. It wasn't huge, but he was the only player besides QF who really stood out in my mind, and I suppose I would've rather voted him to avoid dd getting lynched too fast. (I would hate to see a Day 1 rerun.)

[Pink Puppy]

Akonas, I kept thinking QF was gonna get better. She said things like, "I can't tell this early in the game", "I don't feel strongly enough yet." So, I was trying to give her a chance to figure out how she feels, if what she needed was time or something. The circumstances of a deadline coming and it being d3, just really rubbed me the wrong way. I really don't like it when people don't vote in situations like this. It is pushing us towards a no-lynch, which is anti-town. And it's not really playing the game if you just sit in the middle and let everyone else do the work, and don't even help by voting.

Cephrir said something about how mafia would be voting at a time like this. I don't necessarily think so. I have seen mafia wait in some situations -- because they're not sure they can get on a certain wagon without looking suspicious, or because not voting will further confuse the town, or because they want to force the town to act very close to deadline (increasing town mistakes), or because they want to force a no-lynch. Not saying mafia never vote, just saying that there are circumstances when it definitely benefits mafia to act like QF is acting.

Akonas: as to why I am not voting Cephrir... QF jumped out at me much more. I couldn't let it go. I still harbor a lot of the same suspicions on Cephrir, but I am open to looking at other people, even if I still suspect him to some degree. Usually, the way I play is to keep voting someone until I see something more scummy, then stay on that until I see something else I think is more scummy. Also, I felt like I got about as much out of Cephrir as I could. He knows how I feel, I know how he feels. Unless something new happens, we've already talked about everything.

windkirby's vote on cephrir to "save" darkdude is a little weird. Seems like windkirby sympathizes with DD, both being newbies, so that's why he did it. But I don't think that's really a good reason. And the "cop" insinuation (which he later said he didn't mean), is weird too.

[EmpTyger]

When darkdude and Cephrir’s alignments become known, windkirby is going to be mighty interesting to look at. And PP, too, although for the opposite reason- that dog did not bark.

---

windkirby:
I wasn’t voting Cephrir because I didn’t want to vote darkdude. I was voting Cephrir because I wanted to lynch him. So if that’s not going to happen:

unvote: Cephrir, vote: darkdude.

[darkdude]

When darkdude and Cephrir’s alignments become known, windkirby is going to be mighty interesting to look at. And PP, too, although for the opposite reason- that dog did not bark.

So what is your plan if I turn up town?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Been awol a couple of days and hmm I am pleased with the sudden pick of of activity.
A couple of things have stood out at me from a quick read.
1. The way in which PP "jumped" on QF. Now I can see this as her playstyle but I am getting a slight scum vibe from it for some reason. Maybe it is just the agression that is used in her posts towards rather small or slight issues.
Anyway this gives me a little concern and a good reason to keep a closer eye on her.
2. The relationship between Akonas and QF in this game. Yes I am aware of some relationship outside of this game but at times I have watched there interactions. Sometimes it is supportive sometimes antagonistic, but this seems to be more comments on how each other "is" as a person and not so much about how they are playing this game. As I thought earlier "I hope there is no conflict of iterest", so I would rather like to hear when each of you get back your thoughts about each others play in this game so far.

[vikingfan]

busy times for me right now. I'll respond to akonas as soon as I have a chance. For now though, QF has severely raised my antennae and I want to hear more from her. Cephrir has satisfied me so far with his responses pending further more info and I still see darkdude as my vote of choice- that hasn't changed.

[Talitha]

I am content with my vote.

(And should be around more often over the next week...yay!)

[EmpTyger]

I will probably not be able to post until after the weekend.

---

PP:
What do you think of the fact that darkdude and windkirby are the other 2 voting QF? For me at least, the list of those who are voting QF is making me relatively happy that I’m not…

---

darkdude:

When darkdude and Cephrir’s alignments become known, windkirby is going to be mighty interesting to look at. And PP, too, although for the opposite reason- that dog did not bark.

So what is your plan if I turn up town?

Hey, I was the guy who really wanted a Cephrir lynch today. vikingfan’s a better one to ask.

[darkdude]

Well if you want to lynch someone to get information then you should have a plan so that you can benefit town based on the revelation of the role.

If you can't think of any benefits, wouldn't it be better not to lynch the person? (benefits in the case that the player turns up town, not including when the player is obviously scummy)

[Cephrir]

You're right, if someone turning up town would be beneficial, we should let them keep cruising along, because obviously the point isn't to lynch scum

[Cephrir]

EBWODP:

wouldn't

be beneficial.

[darkdude]

Well he said one of the reasons was to see the player's alignment; as if he had a plan. But when I just asked he said he didn't have a plan. So the first statement is redundant...?

[Pink Puppy]

PP:
What do you think of the fact that darkdude and windkirby are the other 2 voting QF? For me at least, the list of those who are voting QF is making me relatively happy that I’m not…

I know what you mean, but scum can buss each other. It's not the first thing I look for, but I think when scum are under heat they will attack each other to either save themself or make the other look more pro-town when their allignment is revealed. So I'm not terribly worried even though the other people on the wagon with me are not the most pro-town-looking players.

If QF were to come back and vote someone with logic I either agreed with or atleast didn't think was totall BS, I would probably move my vote. As of now, she still hasn't voted anyone. I don't expect her to start being totally sure and shouting that someone is "SCUM SCUM SCUM." But I take not voting to the extent that she is, to be scummy as it is "not playing the game." Not scum hunting. Not helping. Not committing. I also think in situations like this that she is more likely to give herself away further if she is scum, when she starts voting and playing. I feel that pressure does that. So if I find her logic okay, I would move elsewhere.

[darkdude]

With a deadline it doesn't help that QF is missing when there's some confusion around her behaviour....

[Crub]

DONG! DONG! DONG! DONG! DONG! DONG! The ceremonial cowbell up in the clock tower strikes 6. As the sun heads down behind the horizon an ominous silence falls over the crowd. The time for blood is near.

The deadline is now fixed for 28/4 @ 1:00am GMT (about 6.5 days from now).

[darkdude]

I don't like how QF suddenly went inactive with a deadline approaching.

Guys? What is the best option for us now?

I think a No Lynch may actually be an option, since we have an even number of players and there seems to be only one kill per night. We can see who dies today and do a lynch everyday for the rest of the days. It

slightly

increases our chance of hitting scum for the next day....

[EmpTyger]

I'll post more later tonight, but quickly:
darkdude:

Well if you want to lynch someone to get information then you should have a plan so that you can benefit town based on the revelation of the role.

If you can't think of any benefits, wouldn't it be better not to lynch the person? (benefits in the case that the player turns up town, not including when the player is obviously scummy)

I'm not voting based on chance or expectation of information. I'm voting based on who is most suspicious. [Or, in this case, who is most suspicious of those who can accumulate enough votes for a lynch.]

[QuantumFruit]

If we all played like you we'd no-lynch every day.

I don't want everyone to play like me. You're right, that wouldn't work. It also wouldn't work if everyone was jumping on everyone else the whole time and no one was being a mediating force. Then, individuals would latch on to one thing and not consider the broader implications. Hence, we'd have essentially arbitrary voting. There needs to be a balance of both.

QF's case was based on her nonsensical accusation of me being mean.

I wasn't saying you were scum because you were mean. I was saying to stop being mean in general.

Anyway, must go to class now. Farewell. I will read the rest later.

[darkdude]

I wasn't saying you were scum because you were mean. I was saying to stop being mean in general.

!!!!!!

Are you even reading what I wrote? Based on the "you're mean" point, you attempted to stop me from questioning Talitha. THAT'S what makes you scummy!

[Cephrir]

Doesn't that argument fall flat on its face if Talitha isn't scum?

Also, No Lynch = fail.