Thespival Mafia (Denouement)

[Holy]

Sorry all, I'm having an internet connection problem at home from my ISP.

I'm posting this from public computer at my office, per user, we aren't allowed to access the internet, I'll visit an internet cafe after work to post and read the game.

[mathcam]

Are you setting up for PJ to refuse to answer my question? If so, why?

If I've learned anything about PJ's playstyle, it's that there's essentially nothing I could say that would stop PJ from responding to your question. Your "why" question is disingenuous at best -- I explained in the exact post that you're responding to why I didn't think the question should be answered. You're trying to establish a (completely implausible, IMO) mathcam-PJ scum pairing because those are the two people you've somehow decided are scum.

If she is scum then the scum gain nothing by me answering

The motive of the asker seems irrelevant to me (though the asking seems to shed light on that motive) -- the scum gains the same information regardless of who asked it.

This is one of those canned responses to something that I hate seeing. If someone doesn't like a question or whatever, they call say, "Oh don't say that because it gives the scum information!" and 9 times out of 10, it's information the scum could figure out on their own and probably already have.

First of all, I don't think this response is canned at all -- it actually seemed rather controversial when I made it yester(game)day. And even if this were true, this would likely be that 1 time in 10. I suspect that the mafia would be delighted to know exactly who a pro-town PJ would go after tomorrow if a pro-town Beep were lynched, and don't think it's information they could possibly already have or figure out.

[Mizzy]

mathcam:

The thing is that information sharing will always benefit both the town and the scum. That's just how things work. What you have to do is think about what information would help what side more. In this case, I think the information would benefit town more than scum, because another mislynch for us and it could be game over.

[petroleumjelly]

Slowly doing reread. But while I'm at it:

JDGA(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, petroleumjelly, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22

Beep! Beep!(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22, Talitha(town), PookyTheMagicalBear

Beep! Beep!, what do you think of this second wagon? The one where every person voting you is not mafia? From my perspective, the following players have voted for you:

1.)

hasdgfas (presumed town)

2.)

Me (I know myself to be town)

3.)

Monkey (town)

4.)

RossWilliam (town)

5.)

Farside22 (town)

6.)

Talitha (town)

7.)

Pooky (Jester, but not mafia)

The most any mafiate has really could have done to you is to FoS you, or to vote you while you were not currently in the process of being bandwagoned (like when CKD voted you and unvoted your twice in a row, seemingly debating whether or not you were the Jester).

I actually just noticed you completely left out this second bandwagon. What (if anything) does it say about your scum scores? There has already been one wagon that has been "proven" (except for hasdgfas) to have been composed

entirely

of non-mafia this game. But by your scores, if anybody from the second wagon was still alive, you would have given them "100 scum points", effectively putting them at the top of your "list".

[petroleumjelly]

Edit:

From my perspective, the following players have voted for you

on a wagon

: (etc, list of players)

[Holy]

Re-reading Beep still in progress..., I still think she's scum because of her 'device', but what made me hesitant, for I might be wrong, was Beep's uncertainty for CKD yesterday seems genuinely came from town. So, due to my difficult access to the internet lately, last night I did my analysis about that, relying from my memory. And I remembered if CKD and Beep were strongly accusing jester each other > it could be they are scum together and did a bussing strategy, and Beep's uncertain-appearance yesterday could be just a distancing last minute effort from her buddy. It's the conclusion I got, but to have a better view about Beep, I guess it's better if I finish the re-read too.

[Beep! Beep!]

and Beep's uncertain-appearance yesterday could be just a distancing last minute effort from her buddy.

Maybe you're unclear on the definition of "distancing."

[Beep! Beep!]

Slowly doing reread. But while I'm at it:

JDGA(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, petroleumjelly, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22

Beep! Beep!(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22, Talitha(town), PookyTheMagicalBear

Beep! Beep!, what do you think of this second wagon? The one where every person voting you is not mafia? From my perspective, the following players have voted for you:

1.)

hasdgfas (presumed town)

2.)

Me (I know myself to be town)

3.)

Monkey (town)

4.)

RossWilliam (town)

5.)

Farside22 (town)

6.)

Talitha (town)

7.)

Pooky (Jester, but not mafia)

The most any mafiate has really could have done to you is to FoS you, or to vote you while you were not currently in the process of being bandwagoned (like when CKD voted you and unvoted your twice in a row, seemingly debating whether or not you were the Jester).

I actually just noticed you completely left out this second bandwagon. What (if anything) does it say about your scum scores? There has already been one wagon that has been "proven" (except for hasdgfas) to have been composed

entirely

of non-mafia this game. But by your scores, if anybody from the second wagon was still alive, you would have given them "100 scum points", effectively putting them at the top of your "list".

PJ since I don't know your alignment, you are, to me, the only unknown-alignment player on this wagon, and this increases the likelihood that the scum on that wagon is YOU.

But I'm going to pretend that you're town, and I'll got back and look at that wagon. This was a deadline wagon, mind you, so it's likely that the scum being sure that a townie was going to be lynched anyway, didn't bother compromising themselves on a townie wagon, because there was no need to.

But I'll go back and check more closely. Give me a few minutes.

[Beep! Beep!]

BM: "PJ just gives me uneasy vibes. AlKo is obvscum."
BM: "so jump on the AlKo wagon already."
After I replaced...
BM: "please wagon AlKo already."

When I replaced, my first impression was:
"Seems even more pro-town than Monkey. So I have to wonder why Battle Mage and curiouskarmadog are voting for him, and these two are suspicious for the same reason Mastermind and Sarcastro are voting for Monkey."

Interestingly, CKD and Mos both turned out to be scum.

Holy chose to vote for Monkey instead of voting for me. Like she wanted to be off the wagon on purpose.BM: "PJ just gives me uneasy vibes. AlKo is obvscum."
BM: "so jump on the AlKo wagon already."
After I replaced...
BM: "please wagon AlKo already."

When I replaced, my first impression was:
"Seems even more pro-town than Monkey. So I have to wonder why Battle Mage and curiouskarmadog are voting for him, and these two are suspicious for the same reason Mastermind and Sarcastro are voting for Monkey."

Interestingly, CKD and Mos both turned out to be scum.

Holy chose to vote for Monkey instead of voting for me.

I also wrote: "My wagon is not so big that I think there is a lot of scum on it. This being said, I do believe that Pooky's vote on me IS scummy."

Good grief I must have been psychic on that day.

Now, MeMe quickly unvoted me (and to be perfectly objective, I was way scummier than Monkey, and as a vanilla townie, I was perfectly expendable - heck I was suspected of being Jester!). It's as if MeMe planned on extracting another claim before deadline.

Holy posted this:
"BeepBeep: I was biased by wolfcrier's posts though, so when I read her now, I still consider she's might be jester." And she kept her vote on Monkey.

So if PJ is not scum, all roads lead to MeMe/mathcam - and maybe Holy or BM.

I also wrote: "My wagon is not so big that I think there is a lot of scum on it. This being said, I do believe that Pooky's vote on me IS scummy."

Good grief I must have been psychic on that day.

Now, MeMe quickly unvoted me (and to be perfectly objective, I was way scummier than Monkey, and as a vanilla townie, I was perfectly expendable - heck I was suspected of being Jester!). It's as if MeMe planned on extracting another claim before deadline.

[hasdgfas]

Holy, done?

[Thesp]

Official D5 Vote Count

Note:

Cult of the Couch Members:

2 (Mr_Gnome_It_All, Beep! Beep!)

Beep! Beep! - 2

(hasdgfas, Mathcam)

Not Voting - 6

(

Cult of the Couch (2 votes)

, Holy, Iammars, Mizzy, petroleumjelly)

Replacing Iammars.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Prod Recieved

I've been trying to follow this PJ/BB exchange but trying to read it is like trying to understand the teacher from the Charlie Brown cartoons ("wa wa, wa wawawa")

And before some one comes in and asks me what my opinion is about wether or not I think either of them is scum, I'll say right now that I thik they both are. It looks to me like they're either improvising this whole exchange or they're from seperate scum factions, and as is always the case in these situations, I have no real logical basis for this opinion. It's just that, an opinion.

[petroleumjelly]

Jesus criminy.

MGIA:

1.)

How many scum groups do you think there are?

2.)

What do you think the scum groups are? Two mafia? Mafia and a Werewolf? Cult? Serial Killer?

3.)

How many members do you think are in each scum group?

I am

this

close to asking to be replaced. This game is almost reaching the unbearable point for me. It's like I'm trying to talk to a roomful of rocks.

God. I need to go to class.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

1.)

How many scum groups do you think there are?

2.)

What do you think the scum groups are? Two mafia? Mafia and a Werewolf? Cult? Serial Killer?

3.)

How many members do you think are in each scum group?

1) could be one, could be two. can't know for sure until more information is revealed.
2) any of those, except cult, i'd call a possibility
3) again can't know without more info

[Beep! Beep!]

MGIA your recent posts are so bad, if I had a vote, I'd be canvassing for your lynch.

After some soul-searching I have come to the conclusion that PJ is town, mathcam is scum, Holy/Mizzy aren't coming up townie enough.

And there's something not quite right with MGIA's actions, and his posts.

[petroleumjelly]

Posting under time constraint.

I know that before I began my reread of the game, I reread wolfcrier's and JDGA's posts and realized they were not as bad as I had remembered. Most of my bone with Beep! Beep! actually seems to be coming from Beep! Beep! herself, and that

may

just be coming from the fact that I find her completely illogical most of the time. I will try to give the game a fair a reread as possible if I find time, but I have finals for about the next two weeks (the largest factor in why I am considering replacement) so I am worried that I will not be able to read this entire game before the deadline for today hits.

I am definitely not impressed with MGIA right now. He is basically setting himself up for stealing my vote tonight regardless of what happens today.

[Holy]

I'll have more free time next week, after April 23rd. Works deadlined at 22nd. Sorry.

@hasdgfas: re-reading was halted, fyi.

But

tonight

I can allocate some time for the game, I'll try to finish my re-read objectively.

[mathcam]

Agreed on MGIA, both in terms of meaningful participation and in terms of setting up stealing PJ's vote tomorrow. It is striking that given the controversy, he hasn't said that he won't use his ability again tonight -- makes me wonder if he thinks there won't be any more days.

Beep: Can you explain any more why you now think I'm scum? The best I could find was this:

I fucking knew it...DGB and Beep Beep are the same person...god everything makes so much sense now. No wonder I dont understand anything you are saying....which is funny, because i said the exact samething in another game about DGB today....

I ran across this line again in reading through CKD's posts again. This too seems a little over-the-top. Given that we already know CKD was prone to faking dramatic positions (the self-vote, the imploring pleas, the fake bah post, etc.), it would certainly fit the pattern for CKD to have already known that Beep was DGB and have taken this opportunity to feign a dramatic surprise at this revelation. Unless you're suggesting that

that

itself was an elaborate scheme to frame you, then I'm not sure what brought upon the ckd-fooling-you discussion.

Cam

I think I'm sold.

Vote: Beep! Beep!

.

Cam

What you say makes no sense, cam.

I was scum in Heroes Smalltown and he was town. You were in that game, too, mathcam. So you ought to know.

We were 3 scum left, and there were 4 townies. CKD really had no chance, my scumbuddy Adele framed him in such a way that we had to either lynch CKD, or lynch Adele. The town was really outscummed, but I could sense his frustration and despair, I actually felt terrible playing with his emotion like that, in a way, for me, it was a bitter victory because I didn't enjoy making CKD miserable. He was right, he was telling the truth, but there we were framing him on purpose.

So in Thespival yesterday, I saw him pull out the same drama. So it got me thinking that maybe both hasdagas (whom I firmly believe to be town) and CKD might be town. And then PJ made this long post, second guessing the mod and all, and it wasn't so clear that CKD was lying scum, this time.

Ah well, CKD and I are now even. I fooled him, and now he fooled me. I shall have no mercy on him should he wish to pull my heartstrings ever again.

mathcam I know you are scum in this game. Just confess. It's not the type of victory that will give you satisfaction. You don't want to make me cry do you?

I don't understand this at all. The reason I gave in that post, and indeed one of the predominant reasons I'm voting for you right now, is because of a post that ckd made that seemed to me to be a fake surprise at discovering your true identity. It seems like all you're defending is why you were a sucker for (or pretended to be a sucker for) CKD's overacting.

Cam

[Mizzy]

MOD:

I just went into labor, be back ASAP! It should only be 2-3 days. Wish me luck

[hasdgfas]

hi Holy

[mathcam]

Congrats, Mizzy! Just make sure you keep your priorities straight.

[Holy]

Re-reading Beep objectively, I'm not so sure anymore of her being scum. She did scumhunt, she admitted her 'device' is only looking at vote patterns. She did her analysis/hunt in this game, although every time she did her Scum Scores (meaningless numbers in my eyes :p ), it kind of tainted her foregoing efforts bit by bit. She didn't push a weak case merely from her Scores, although her Scum Score did point RW as scum for example, she still questioning RW, tried understanding him more.
Re-reading Beep made me want to re-read PJ too.

Btw, congrats Mizzy

[Thesp]

Official D5 Vote Count

Note:

Cult of the Couch Members:

2 (Mr_Gnome_It_All, Beep! Beep!)

Beep! Beep! - 2

(hasdgfas, Mathcam)

Not Voting - 6

(

Cult of the Couch (2 votes)

, Holy, Iammars, Mizzy, petroleumjelly)

Still hunting a replacement for Iammars. Deadline in about 36 hours - a simple plurality will lynch at the deadline, using longest-held last-vote as a tie-breaker.

And congratulations, Mizzy!

[petroleumjelly]

Ugh. I still do not have time to read this game in detail (in my two weeks of finals). But (as I mentioned before) we

absolutely have to

lynch somebody with an actual lynch today and not a plurality lynch. A plurality lynch means scum could switch their votes last minute and that'll be that.

Of course, now that we have 36 hours I am sure most people will go into "safe mode" and not bother with anything but the "obvious lynch" (which is Beep! Beep! by a mile, although I am not nearly as convinced of her being scum as I was before).

I also think lynching is better than voting for No Lynch, since there is a strong chance we have a live Vigilante who will bring the numbers down to 5 tomorrow (assuming no double-kills or stopped kills) -- such that if the Vigilante dies overnight the town hopefully has two lynches to go (unless MGIA is scum, clearly).

I will try to skim the live players and vote before I go to bed. Reasoning might be scant, but I'll do what I can.

[hasdgfas]

deadline, guys.