Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)

[Mizzy]

That's my point: You're saying that, while doing the opposite.

Like I said before, if I were attacking someone, you'd see FoSes and votes from me. Just because you say what I am doing is attacking doesn't make it so.

[hasdgfas]

That's my point: You're saying that, while doing the opposite.

Like I said before, if I were attacking someone, you'd see FoSes and votes from me. Just because you say what I am doing is attacking doesn't make it so.

Just because it doesn't look like attacking to you doesn't mean it's not.

[Mizzy]

Just because it doesn't look like attacking to you doesn't mean it's not.

I think you guys just don't like the fact that I'm talking about a mistake that was made by the majority. I've made plenty of bad mistakes in games, gotten townies killed by accident for them, and I'm only saying that we can't continue just lynching for the sake of lynching; ANY of us, myself included. We should ALL learn from the mistakes and not repeat them.

My suspicions are formed from actions and responses that have nothing to do with the wagon, as much as I didn't like it...so I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks I'm attacking anyone for it. I don't see any quotes, here.

[Skruffs]

Capricious and Elmo being down DO NO DETRACT from my arguments that the scum are Mizzy and/or Zindaras! IF he had been scum, I would have recalibrated.

[Skruffs]

I said it already, but I'll say it again: Skruffs, I have no idea what connection you're seeing between Zindy and Mizzy, besides the fact that they're both playing in this game. Again, I think you're making up whatever you can to put suspicion onto people.

The alternative is to make jokes, be irreverent, and... what? Not try to be suspicious of people? Let other people be suspicious and coast along until the end for a mafia victory? Is that what you are doing?

[Mizzy]

Capricious and Elmo being down DO NO DETRACT from my arguments that the scum are Mizzy and/or Zindaras! IF he had been scum, I would have recalibrated.

So why, then, were you so happy lynching someone you didn't think was scum instead of working out a good, strong case against either one of the people you

do

think are scum? This is not an attack; it's a serious question. As far as I can tell, the deadline mechanism was the driving force in your pushing for a lynch. Is that correct or false?

Yes, we have an automatic deadline mechanic that can result in a no-lynch if we are not on our game. I don't see that the deadline mechanic is something we should panic about, nor do I think we should let it rule our decisions going forward. We tried it, it didn't work out very well, and now we should try something else. That's my point and my opinion.

[Skruffs]

I think it was because all attempts I had to encourage discussion towards other people were backhanded into the corner and called the red-headed step child.

You yourself

took the charge in trying to stop me from branching the conversation away from Capricious, before deadline.

What should we do, then, next deadline? Just let it happen?

[Skruffs]

Oh for heaven's sake, this is why I hate meta. It's clouding a perfectly good game, and no matter how you look at it, clouding the game is only good for scum. FoS: Skruffs for not leaving past grudges behind back in the games they belong in,

drawing focus away from the two scum candidates

, and being tunnel-visioned. Zindaras' role/alignment in other games has absolutely no baring on his role/alignment in this one. Get past it.

Capricious: What the hell were those beanpoles you tried to pass off as posts/content? There's a case against you and you're on the lynchlist of at least two people, and that's ALL you can muster? Eesh. And by the way, your opinion that my opinion is false is bullshit.

[Zindaras]

Capricious and Elmo being down DO NO DETRACT from my arguments that the scum are Mizzy and/or Zindaras! IF he had been scum, I would have recalibrated.

My rebuttals do. 507 through 510. Respond.

[Mizzy]

I think it was because all attempts I had to encourage discussion towards other people were backhanded into the corner and called the red-headed step child.

You yourself

took the charge in trying to stop me from branching the conversation away from Capricious, before deadline.

What should we do, then, next deadline? Just let it happen?

Of course we don't let the no-lynch happen, but that's easy enough to do by

staying active and posting

. The deadlines aren't set, they are fluid, and as long as we participate, then we're safe from the no-lynches happening.

As for you steering the conversation away from Capricious before the deadline, I really don't see you trying much other than to scream, "Mizzy is scum, omfg!" In fact, the last time (before the day ended) that I spoke directly to you was Wed Mar 26, #361, when the day ended Thu Apr 03, #449, nearly 8 RL days and 100 posts later. You had

at least

that span of that time to steer the discussion any way you wanted, but I don't really see that you tried, and I certainly didn't tell you not to try.

In fact, during those 8 days and near-100 posts, here's what you did post about (backtracking some to include the whole page:)

My justification is that if someone isn't lynched, we don't get information.
Capricious was at three, the person I was voting was at three. I changed to Capricious to put him at 4.

Discussing Capri.

Ding Dong!
Five more people need to post, or one mroe needs to vote Capricious.

Discussing Capri.

I am anxious to CORRECTLY END day One, NOT get to night 2. Night 2 is inevitable, and we are playing with a loaded gun by drawing day 1 out. We either get a STRONG wagon on someone other than Capricious, FAST, (because scum would rather not post and let day go to night with a no-lynch then let themselves be quicklynched) OR we lynch Capricious and have SOME info OR we do nothing and let the big ? wait until tomorrow.

Discussing Capri.

^- Translation "hope for nolynch"

Finally, no direct mention of Capri, but this IS a direct attack of my sentiments in my post #359 that I didn't want a Capri lynch.

Assuming I am in the next block right now.
Filler post !

Exactly what he said, a filler post but not trying to discuss anything, let alone steer conversation from Capri.

I am not antitown town. I have a pretty good track record, matter of fact, except the last two Lylos, but in both of those cases, the other other town player was ignorant or absentee.

No real content, and not trying to steer conversation from Capri.

Lynch scumkitties, moving, we're playing with fire by withbdeadlines
Can anyonew check to see if anyone's posting frequency before/after deadline has passed

No real content, and not trying to steer conversation from Capri.

HMmmmm.
Elmo: Think it's about Andy.

No real content, and not trying to steer conversation from Capri.

Oh, okay. ^.^

It's really easy to pick at other players without, you know, putting yourself at risk, isn't it?

No real content, and not trying to steer conversation from Capri.

Y:
I see absolutely NO posts where you criticized for attacking me. Since you decided to pick a person that several other players have already shown resentment towards, I imagine that you picked a player that you could 'bandwagon'-attack, knowing that your sentiments would be easily shared - and carried, by others. Thus, you attacked someone that would lead to NO risk of yourself being attacked. I do not see WHERE you were attacked, but please quote posts where you were voted against and/or attacked for being suspicious of me. Obviously, I do not count in this, because I am the one who called you out in it.

Hey look, some content! But I still don't really see you trying to steer conversation onto any scum candidates; just being defensive in general.

Can we lynch Mizzy?
I am voting Capri ONLY to ensure a day one lynch, which is town's ONLY WEAPON that we can be sure of at this juncture. I have been saying since the FIRST DAY that we entered deadline that we needed to hammer fast, because otherwise scum will just lay low and wait for the atrophy to sink in until we miss a deadline and lose.

Mizzy is SCUM. D: SCUM I TELL YOU LYNCH THE BETCH!!! If not today than tomorrow.

And more Capri talk, in fact, directing the conversation back onto him.

----------------

And then Capri was hammered in post 449. So within the 98 posts that happened before the day ended, I don't see you once trying to steer conversation off of Capri, and no where except once did I even directly address you. So where did I "try to stop you from branching the conversation away from Capricious, before deadline?"

[Mizzy]

Skruffs, that post was not made anywhere near the end of anything, and we didn't HAVE a deadline.

[eldarad]

Rotten Snitch: what is your opinion on the Capri lynch? In contrast to Mizzy, you have not been vocal about attacking the Capri wagon, apart from post 486. So what do you think happened?
Was the Capri lynch caused by scum? Or lazy townies desperate to avoid a mislynch? Or something else?
What do you think of Mizzy's actions today with respect to the Capri wagon?
Do you agree with her attacks on people who joined the wagon without really thinking Capri was scum? Or do you disagree with me when I say that Mizzy has been attacking people Today?

[Ether]

2 Mizzy (Skruffs, eldarad)
1 eldarad (Yosarian2)

6 Unvote (Andycyca, hasdgfas, Mizzy, Rotten Snitch, Y, Zindaras)

9 alive; 5 to lynch.

Deadline's in about half a week.

[Yosarian2]

Yos seems to be subtly goading Mizzy, which I really don't like.

How am I "subtly goading Mizzy"?

I've been mistrustful of Yos ever sinec Open 14, though, so I'm hyper sensitive to his playstyle, even if I can't really understand it.[/quote]

Heh...yeah, you pretty much do attack me in every single game we're in together.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, we need to wagon someone, and we need to do it now, we've got no time. Why are so many people not voting? Are people so afraid of another bad bandwagn that we're just going to no-lynch today? What the heck?

I'm still thinking either Rotton Snitch or eldarad is fine. I'm actually a bit more suspicious of Rotton Snitch at the moment

unvote

vote:Rotton Snitch

I don't really like the Mizzy wagon, but we need to move SOMEWHERE. Everyone needs to get in here and vote, and they need to do it now.

[hasdgfas]

Anyway, we need to wagon someone, and we need to do it now, we've got no time. Why are so many people not voting? Are people so afraid of another bad bandwagn that we're just going to no-lynch today? What the heck?

I'm still thinking either Rotton Snitch or eldarad is fine. I'm actually a bit more suspicious of Rotton Snitch at the moment

unvote

vote:Rotton Snitch

I don't really like the Mizzy wagon, but we need to move SOMEWHERE. Everyone needs to get in here and vote, and they need to do it now.

Hey, no. Try again. This is a terrible post. First off, we have plenty of time. People aren't voting because there's good discussion going on right now. Why do you think we're going to no-lynch? Do you not like the discussion that's currently going on? I think it's very useful.

[Mizzy]

Hey, no. Try again. This is a terrible post. First off, we have plenty of time. People aren't voting because there's good discussion going on right now. Why do you think we're going to no-lynch? Do you not like the discussion that's currently going on? I think it's very useful.

Even if it's me that's on the roasting pit here, I agree with Has. We certainly do not need to wagon right now and we are not in danger as long as people pay attention and stay active, yes? More information is better.

[Rotten Snitch]

Eldarad I hope to respond to you today. This game takes so much time to read and double check that it is harder to do while at work. I do plan on acknowledging you question though.

[Rotten Snitch]

Rotten Snitch: what is your opinion on the Capri lynch? In contrast to Mizzy, you have not been vocal about attacking the Capri wagon, apart from post 486. So what do you think happened?
Was the Capri lynch caused by scum? Or lazy townies desperate to avoid a mislynch? Or something else?
What do you think of Mizzy's actions today with respect to the Capri wagon?
Do you agree with her attacks on people who joined the wagon without really thinking Capri was scum? Or do you disagree with me when I say that Mizzy has been attacking people Today?

@ Eldarad –
My opinion of the Capri Lynch: It was warranted. Looking back at it he really didn’t do too much to defend himself and or redirect / answer questions asked of him. He just about looked like caught scum. You get me close to lynch and I will gouge some eyeballs and try as hard as possible to root out scum even with my impending doom. Anything thing that could help town the next day. Capri didn’t do this and it has hurt us.

Was Capri’s lynch cause by scum. I can say there is a guarantee that at least one scum was on his wagon. We do not know how many bad guys there are but we can most defiantly assume there are two or more. Looking back at the voting patterns Zindy was on Capri in the beginning and then bailed when it started gathering speed. Maybe this was to say he thought Capri was town. I think anyone at this point in the game saying Capri was town should be looked at. Capri was not acting completely scummy but was also not acting in a purely town manner.

Avoiding a mislynch was a good thing. Although we are now down 3 townies we were able to keep control of the game and we used our power as a majority. Andy’s hammer was as I have said before essential for putting day 1 out of it’s misery. I was not going to hammer because I was not convinced either way that he was or was not scum. Mizzy was very quick to jump on the “who did what” and “it leading up to finger pointing thing” I did mention day 2 that everyone bitching about it had the power to remove their votes. I do not like how everyone on the wagon has justified their guilt by saying there was not going to be any other option. Again no one really truly went after anyone else.

What I do not like about the wagon and it’s riders is that Yos suspected me day 1 and day 2 but was ok with a “vote someone else because nothing is gonna change it” and Skruffles suspected Mizzy and Zindy day 1 and 2 but again “vote someone else because nothing is gonna change it” this kind of thinking is going to lynch another Townie today, IMO it is scum thinking.
Take a look at Yos’s post 484 and then his new post 589 he has mentions that my posting is suspicious and such but has not really gone after me or questioned me at all. Content to switch votes and lynch but not content to aggressively pursue a suspected scum???? Although Skruffs has been more aggressive towards Zindy and Mizzy he is showing the same characteristics.

I still suspect Mizzy and Zindy and I also suspect Skruffles and Yos.

To answer your question about mizzy….. I don’t know. I think she completely annoying in her posts and her amount of posts. The annoying part is not scummy. I do find her amount of posts a little suspicious. When you post so much it kinda discourages some to not bother reading and separating the facts from the BS. I personally am too lazy to re-read 24 pages and 115 of her long life draining posts to call her on anything. If this is an attempt to intentionally distract / dissuade / and overwhelm then she has completely beaten me. My belief of her possible scuminess is more of a gut feeling and if it boils down to a town win I will waste a day of my life to analyze all of her posts and interactions.

Hope this answered some of you questions Eld-

[Skruffs]

• Rules (you should probably read these)

1. Assuming you don't lynch anyone, a day phase should last two weeks. When the two weeks are up, the game will enter a deadline. In every 24-hour block after the deadline, a majority of the living players must post or the game will go to night. Basically, lynch quickly or keep things active.
   
2. If the game goes to night due to a deadline, there won't be a lynch. Someone has to consciously place a hammer.

Mizzy, the game started with a KNOWN two-week deadline, every day.


You can't say we didn't start off with one, because it was public knowledge that we did. You were too busy trying to prevent actual scum hunting from going on to read the rules, I guess.

[Skruffs]

Hey, no. Try again. This is a terrible post. First off, we have plenty of time. People aren't voting because there's good discussion going on right now. Why do you think we're going to no-lynch? Do you not like the discussion that's currently going on? I think it's very useful.

Even if it's me that's on the roasting pit here, I agree with Has. We certainly do not need to wagon right now and we are not in danger as long as people pay attention and stay active, yes? More information is better.

We still need >50% of all players posting once per 24 hours in order to avoid no-lynching. You shouldn't be defending that kind of situiation, considering how irate you are about the desperation-fueled deadline lynch yesterday.

[Zindaras]

Capricious and Elmo being down DO NO DETRACT from my arguments that the scum are Mizzy and/or Zindaras! IF he had been scum, I would have recalibrated.

My rebuttals do. 507 through 510. Respond.

I'm not a broken record.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, we need to wagon someone, and we need to do it now, we've got no time. Why are so many people not voting? Are people so afraid of another bad bandwagn that we're just going to no-lynch today? What the heck?

I'm still thinking either Rotton Snitch or eldarad is fine. I'm actually a bit more suspicious of Rotton Snitch at the moment

unvote

vote:Rotton Snitch

I don't really like the Mizzy wagon, but we need to move SOMEWHERE. Everyone needs to get in here and vote, and they need to do it now.

Hey, no. Try again. This is a terrible post. First off, we have plenty of time. People aren't voting because there's good discussion going on right now. Why do you think we're going to no-lynch? Do you not like the discussion that's currently going on? I think it's very useful.

Uh, we have half a week until deadline, and the biggest bandwagon is exactally two people. I'm not saying we need to hammer someone right now, but we need to start moving towards a lynch, hopefully with time and inclination to be able to back off and go somwhere else if we want to. We need to start moving towards a lynch NOW, so we AREN'T forced to either no-lynch or fire off a quick "it's deadline lets lynch someone now" situation.

As for the current conversation, I don't have any specific problem with it, other then it's not moving us any closer to a lynch. Mizzy didn't like the wagon yesterday, but dosn't seem to really suspect any one person on the wagon. Fine, but why are we dewlling on it so much? People need to either make a case based on the Capi wagon, or make a case based on something else, but we need to be making cases.

Deadline could come as early as 3 days from now, and we've got no real leads from today, no bandwagons or reponses to wagons, and very little in the way of attacks or defense. Sy it's day 4 and you're re-reading today. Is there anything that's happened today so far that's going to help you figure out player X's alignment once you know player Y's and player Z's alignment? I don't really think so, because no one's attacking anyone else, so no one's defending anyone else, so there's no connections or scumhunting or "X was right about Y being scum, X is probably pro-town", or "A attacked B, but it looks like a bus" or anything like that.

Basically, no, I don't like the way today is going so far, because it's not going anywhere. Seconly, no, we do NOT have "pleanty of time"; we're only assured of 2 weeks per day, and we've already used up most of that without getting anywhere. Yes, "more information is better", but if no one's voting and no one's attacking anyone, then we're not really GETTING much information. We need to actually start moving somewhere, and we need to do it now.

[Yosarian2]

What I do not like about the wagon and it’s riders is that Yos suspected me day 1 and day 2 but was ok with a “vote someone else because nothing is gonna change it” and Skruffles suspected Mizzy and Zindy day 1 and 2 but again “vote someone else because nothing is gonna change it” this kind of thinking is going to lynch another Townie today, IMO it is scum thinking.

I made my thinking yesterday quite clear, thank you. If you have a problem with my thinking, then respond to the post where I explained exactally what I did yesterday and why.

Take a look at Yos’s post 484 and then his new post 589 he has mentions that my posting is suspicious and such but has not really gone after me or questioned me at all. Content to switch votes and lynch but not content to aggressively pursue a suspected scum???? Although Skruffs has been more aggressive towards Zindy and Mizzy he is showing the same characteristics.

(shurg) I've explained why I think you're suspicious. You have not convinced me I'm wrong. After thinking about it, and after some of Eldred's more recent posts which felt a little less scummy, I came to the conclusion that I was happier with lynching you then lynching Eldred, although I wouldn't mind either one and I think there's a good chance that the two of you are scum together.

I do find her amount of posts a little suspicious.
When you post so much it kinda discourages some to not bother reading and separating the facts from the BS. I personally am too lazy to re-read 24 pages and 115 of her long life draining posts to call her on anything. If this is an attempt to intentionally distract / dissuade / and overwhelm then she has completely beaten me. My belief of her possible scuminess is more of a gut feeling and if it boils down to a town win I will waste a day of my life to analyze all of her posts and interactions.

You've hardly said anything of content, and now you're attacking her for posting too much content?

[Skruffs]

Zindaras - you can post more rather than just endlessly repeat yourself while deadline creeps up. Even thought he rest of hte game is moving on, you want me to talk about who you quoted in another game, presumably as some way to detract from the allegations I'm making about you in this game. Why?

510 is directed towards yos and eldarad, do youw ant me to respond to that too?

Are you hiding behind waiting for other people to respond to avoid contributing and/.or actually scumhunting yourself?