Mini #556 - The Most Excellent People Ever - Called.

[Korlash]

As of right now I do highly doubt Panzer would have not known he was a miller and thus answered right off the bat, yet still know that Battlemage factored into his role in some way. doesnt make sense to me, either your told your a miller, or your not. I have never fathomed a time where you are told that something reguarding another player may or may not effect you in the game when a sepcific role targets you for a specific reason.

...

I mean come on....

I'll see what he comes back with before I lay my vote. Wouldn't mind some more input froms others too.

(Anyone notice Dizzy is keeping fairly active yet Panzer hasn't? I know it's only been one day, and RL issues and what not. I'm just saying.)

[Korlash]

EBWOP:

Backstreet Boys are excellent? Seriously?

I had this thought myself, but then I thought excellenfe is subjective...

Alright... Subjective? You got to be kidding me. I mean I know a lot of die hard ninja fans who would boo Captain Jack. I personally have never once seen Jonny Depp in a role that wasn't the most excellent, but still... There will always be a few people who think other wise. And buddha? I mean thats crossing religious grounds a bit. This is the type of crap people die for. i mean you can say all you want he was excellent I think the role itself hinges too much on beliefs and stuff to even be considered a role. As a person i can see him as being super excellent, but his teachings may give the opposite impression to others. Subjective doesn't even begin to describe it. Our version of excellent means jack in this game. It's all about what the mod thinks.

Ona side note,

Siddartha Gautama - Postponed Omniscient If I survive until Day 5 I get to see the alignments of remaining players. I was also warned of a handicap. I was not informed as to what it was..but I feel it has something to with with Battlemage.

Alright I had to look the name up, I know sue me, and most sites i saw had it listed as "Siddhattha Gotama" or "Siddhārtha Gautama." Panzer's claim was misspelled in the name area. seeing as how it is only missing one letter I can accept a typo, however when i claim flavorful roles I usually do the old copy and paste so... not sure if it means anything just figured I would point it out.

[Oman]

BM fits a miller role for me though. Flavour-wise.

I just...don't think its worth the risk to leave scum alive cause they may be a miller.

[PJ.]

Siddhārtha Gautama, in Sanskrit, or Siddhattha Gotama, in Pali, was a spiritual teacher from ancient India and the founder of Buddhism.

There you go Korlash. And also on your whole subjective excellence thing. I'm an atheist, and I believe that Jesus, Mohammed, and Siddhārtha Gautama were all excellent, and had followers who established their teachings so much so that we still know their lessons today. It may be bullshit, but excellence nonetheless.

I just lost a huge post.

Dizzy started avidly going after me, and at that point I wasn't sure cause it was well after the whole Guardian thing(which strikes me as weird). I called her bluff. She then stated Battlemage after somebody asked her what information she had. At that point, I figured she was some kind of role cop and had investigated me ensuing my handicap. I was told I had a handicap but not told it had to due with Battlemage. Previously I suspected it was some sort of miller handicap. Dizzy, right now you are just argueing semantics, How I said over What I said. Look, when someone hints they have info on you, then says something assumed to be scum, and you know you have a handicap, wouldn't it become evident what your handcap is. All I was mentioning in my role claim is that Rosso told me there was a handicap but did not specify.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm wasn't arguing semantics, I was trying to correct a mistake Guardian was making that was potentially affecting his interpretation of the situation.

[Korlash]

There you go Korlash. And also on your whole subjective excellence thing. I'm an atheist, and I believe that Jesus, Mohammed, and Siddhārtha Gautama were all excellent, and had followers who established their teachings so much so that we still know their lessons today. It may be bullshit, but excellence nonetheless.

I can only asume you quoted that because I mentioned you mispelled it, and yet thequote itself proves you mispelled it... What was the point?

[The Jester]

I'm leaning against Panzer being mafia for the "I have a handicap, but no idea what it is."

That is completely different from having a role that may or may not do something, aka some red herring role. Basically what Korlash said about it.

(CJS' is one of the coolest movie characters I've seen, definitely Excellent. Not sure about the BB boys, I'll avoid comment so as not to offend Dizzy.)

[PJ.]

I only missed the scripted a which wasn't given to me by rosso.

And Dizzy you are, because what makes you so sure that i'm scum is that at first at sounded like i knew and second i sounded like I didn't. I did know cause it did say Handicap. You were pretty much argueing that the words "it might" have something to do with BM. I mistyped. I should have said "It probably is why you got that result" but for all I know we can have a role name switcher and my handicap is completely different. It still can be anything, but I'm pretty sure it is a fake role name/miller handicap.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

One post has certainty. The other has doubt. There's a fair period of time between the posts which provides for the opportunity of role creation, though I recognise that you didn't post anywhere in between. Your role seems entirely overpowered, and far too useful to the town to be particularly likely, even if you have a miller handicap. If you put all this together, coupled with the result I got on my investigation and the lack of any evidence that I have sanity issues, then I believe that you are far more likely to be scum than not, and that it is in the town's best interests to lynch you.

I really urge people to vote for him. I'd like to be able to say that I managed to take out scum because of my claim, so that when I'm NKed tonight, I can be happy I did my part to help the town win.

[Oman]

I've mispelled my name before (veggie mafia) its dumb to lynch over.

[Korlash]

never said lynch him over it...

[Cavebear with a toothache]

I dunno... It seems like a powerful role, but at the same time, day 5?
It's day two now, with ten left. Assuming one lynch and one NK each day/night, at the dawn of day five, there'd be four people left. Not very good odds.

What kind of bothers me is that all the arguments against Panzer are meta arguments.
One point is that he didn't claim immidiately, but even a fake claim can be made in advance.
Another point is the role name, but I have no idea if it even means anything. Battle Mage seems a reasonably excellent person to me now, but I would've expected Backstreet Boys to be un-excellent (no offense to anyone, but when I grew up, listening to Backstreet Boys was decidedly uncool), so that's pointless.
Third point is how much Panzer was told about the handicap, and that's impossible to find out since there's a rule against quoting pm:s, and so the rest of you can go on experience from normal pm:s. I can't. I guess I could meta Rosso's old games, but I don't like doing meta reads (especially not on mods.)
A fourth point is that the claim is convenient, and while true, that doesn't mean the claim is fake (although probably more likely to be fake).

So the question is, are the points above (or did I miss something? I'm not counting the possibly misspelled role name here) enough to lynch? I'm leaning towards "maybe", but I'm not convinced. More information needed.

[PJ.]

I don't believe it is overpowerred with a miller handicap. Because Day 5 is a loooong way to go, especially when your outted day 2. I have to not catch a night kill 3 nights in a row. The miller thing matters a whole lot, cause there can be multiple cops in this too.

[WhoMe?]

I don't believe it is overpowerred with a miller handicap. Because Day 5 is a loooong way to go, especially when your outted day 2. I have to not catch a night kill 3 nights in a row. The miller thing matters a whole lot, cause there can be multiple cops in this too.

overpowered? It's crap. Lets assume you have stayed hidden, we have made it to day 5, there are 4 or so of us left, damn near if not at lylo, then u pop up and say I know everyone's alignments vote so and so. Of course we will trust you, it couldn't be a scum gambit at all....


Still not buying it, made up fake claim to get off of Dizzy's inv on you

[Oman]

Panzer, I probably would've believed one or the other, but right now, you're claiming NK immune miller vig.

[WhoMe?]

Panzer, I probably would've believed one or the other, but right now, you're claiming NK immune miller vig.

have I missed soemthing? He's claiming a delayed omniscient miller?

[Oman]

*sigh* I got lynched in PEGBAM because I was an NK immune SK but not inv Immune. I decided to claim all portions of my role but try to sound town at the same time, not thinking the cop hadn't investigated me.

I claimed (essentially) NK immuner miller vig and was promptly lynched for the basic overcomplication of the role.

Thats what Panzer is doing, he is claiming Facets of his role (like miller) that are neccessary because he's been investigated, whilst still trying to get us to keep him around.

Essetially: Cop, townie, doctor, vig even . all fly as fakeclaims because they're simple. delayed Omniscient miller is not, and does not.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Oman has a valid point, it does overly complicated. Add to that that it's not just an ordinary miller - it's a rolename miller. (Of course, seeing as how there's a rolecop, maybe there's nothing odd about that.)

Besides, now that the secret is out, I doubt that the omniscient thing would be useful, so we're not losing very much even if it's true. No more than we would if we lynched a townie, anyway. Which means it wouldn't be a very good fake claim, either.

I'm going to sleep on this. >_>

[DizzyIzzyB13]

If he was a genuine rolemiller, wouldn't you expect him to come back as someone who's obviously unexcellent? Personally, I'd be expecting, like, Adolf Hitler or Robert Mugabe or something. Also, if you want to expand on the point about overcomplication... his rolename. He is roleclaiming Buddha. Why is is rolename not just "Buddha"? Maybe that's overthinking, but still... worthy of consideration, IMO. Especially if you lynch him.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

If he was a genuine rolemiller, wouldn't you expect him to come back as someone who's obviously unexcellent? Personally, I'd be expecting, like, Adolf Hitler or Robert Mugabe or something.

Valid point... But then again, apparently Backstreet Boys are excellent, and according to the intro, Steve Jobs isn't.

Also, if you want to expand on the point about overcomplication... his rolename. He is roleclaiming Buddha. Why is is rolename not just "Buddha"? Maybe that's overthinking, but still... worthy of consideration, IMO. Especially if you lynch him.

Actually, Buddha is sort of a title, meaning "enlightened one". There has been several if I remember correctly, but the most famous one, and the one you usually mean by saying "the Buddha", was Siddharta Gautama.

Okay, so the claim stinks. It's just... weird. The Battle Mage thing doesn't make sense, the Buddha role seems a bit off, the timing of the claiming and the circumstances surrounding it reeks.

I've reread Panzer, trying to make up my mind. About the only thing stopping me from voting him at this point (I'm not sure the claim is fake, but when I get to choose between a needlessly complicated explanation and a simple one, I prefer the simple one, which is that Panzer was caught with his pants down and had to make up a claim) is the fact that it means that there was some serious busing going on with Lloyd day one. That makes me pause. Does anyone have a good meta read on Panzer, is that something he'd do? Is he ruthless?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Yes, but... the real name of Buddha is nowhere near as well known as his title, and the vast majority of people would know exactly which one was meant if you just used the title. It's like Gandhi. There are an awful lot of people who think Mahatma is his first name, not a title.

[Oman]

Worth thinking about if

we

lynch him?

Not joining us?

[PJ.]

When did I claim NK immune?

Oman explain how what I'm doing is similar to you in PegBam. You said you claimed eash facet of your role. Are you saying you believe my omniscience? The only way the me and you could be similar in those situations are if I'm somekind of omniscient survivor(named BM). And seriously, I'm an asshole but who busses there buddy day 1 for no reason?

[Guardian]

I've been silent to allow Panzer to make his own defense; but I am still of the position that he should not be lynched.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Worth thinking about if

we

lynch him?

Not joining us?

I've already voted for him. My vote is staying there no matter what. So it's up to you (as in, the rest of the town) to finish the job. Besides, I'm already thinking like a dead(wo)man walking. Outed Cops don't tend to last the night.