Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote: Guardian

.

[lord_hur]

...
.......
..............
Good lord. I am just speechless. IF you're town (and that's a HUGE if), do you realize how much you just hurt town ?

But anyway, let the grilling start.

I breadcrumbed this somewhere, but a miller breadcrumb shouldn't really convince anyone of anything. So um. Yeah.

Where is that breadcrumbing supposed to be ?

[lord_hur]

Vote: Guardian.

I am so itching to just do this. Never anything else has ever appeared so tempting.

[Musher333]

If we let him through how do we know he isnt scum and the cop shouldnt investigate him, sounds like an i am scum don't investigate me post.

[PyroDwarf]

I don't like spontaneous claims like that, especially when you say "don't bother to investigate me, I'll turn up scum." I'd was hoping to get more votes on TVod to pressure him, but

unvote, Vote:Guardian

Lets get this ball rolling in a different direction. As for alluding to be a cop and bread-crumbing miller... what does that mean?(ie: see lord_hur's post 326)

[Guardian]

I think my claiming is good *because* I've been playing so badly, and think I'd be highly, highly likely to draw a cop inspect.

Miller implies cop to me, so even if you do lynch me, me being lynched today would be better than a cop wasting an investigation *AND* me being lynched tomorrow.

Like I said, it's about that thing, and also about how he made a very reaching interpretation of lord_hur's setup speculation.

Side Note:

M

eh,

I l

iterally

l

ike...

e

h...

r

eally feel I'm playing badly this game. So um... I'll try to play better? Mmm. Nighty night.

Side note = claim, first letters = miller. Put that together -->
Claim: Miller.

[HackerHuck]

Millers are bad news for the town.

I agree that you've gone on with very poor play Guardian. Didn't you realise that "playing" as the cop would only make you a bigger cop target?

I'm pretty sure this is unnecessary, but I want this on the record again.

Vote: Guardian

[Guardian]

Not if SlySly was a scummy scumbag and died .

Why are millers bad news, Huck? Why do you think specifically my poor play is indicative of me being scum?

[hasdgfas]

Wow. just wow. Now comes the "Do I believe him or not?" part of the claim. Gimme a little while to think and I'll return (hopefully) soon.

[SlySly]

In your opinion, shouldn't Stoofer, knowing that I had just rejoined the game, have kindly either a) answered my newly formed question, or b) pointed out that he had already answered a differently formed question of similar content in 111?

Well, you sorta answered your own question. Mr Stoofer would have done that if he was playing "kindly". Judging by his play in this game, this is not the case.

I asked your opinion of what Mr. Stoofer should have done. You did not give it in your response, any reason for that?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To ignore a question when it is written in a completely comprehensible manner is scummy. Doing it under the guise of "ignoring me" is no less scummy.

QFT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That must have taken a lot of hard work, SlySly, but is in fact a load of crap.

It did take some work, yes. Load of crap, no. Though it now appears you did answer a few of the questions I pointed out, there are still plenty that you didn't.

I am not the only one who thinks this:

I believe slysly has a decent point about Mr Stoofers reluctance to answer questions

He actually answered a load of questions though (

even if he did leave some out

)

I really don't care about the answer to most of those questions, what bothers me is your consistent ignoring of others questioning. In fact, you ignored another question of mine about Shin very recently.

As far as your insisting to not answer tVoD's questions, that is total crap. First, refusing to participate in one area of discussion is anti-town whether you are frustrated with the other player or not. Second, you really aren't standing firm on your insisting to not answer his questions as now you are selectively answering some of his questions while ignoring some of his others. Am I going to have to make that list for you too or will you admit that you are still answering

some

of his questions and not others?

Don't forget, it is not just tVoD and Guardian's questions you have avoided.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sure you will agree that lord_hur has hardly been pro-Stoofer in this game

You should not be so quick to assume what I agree with. lord_hur has been pro-Stoofer in my eyes more than once in this game, including recently.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To everyone other than Guardian and Stoofer:

Did anyone else pick up on Guardian's alluding to be a cop?

I think this could be a gambit the two (or 3) of them are pulling that they discussed in night 0 to setup Guardian's fake miller claim.

Here's why...

I am annoyed that you virtually claimed Cop at the start of this game and you are now backing off from that.

I didn't pick up on G's virtual Cop claim. Maybe I am just dense or maybe my late entry to the game kind of helped me forget about night 0 somewhat. The possibility of G hinting that he was a Cop never entered my mind.

Guardian usually starts off the game messing about a bit,

posting in haikus

.

Funny that Stoofer mentions this just before Guardian points out his scumcrumbing earlier in the game...

Like I said, it's about that thing, and also about how he made a very reaching interpretation of lord_hur's setup speculation.

Side Note:

M

eh,

I l

iterally

l

ike...

e

h...

r

eally feel I'm playing badly this game. So um... I'll try to play better? Mmm. Nighty night.

Side note = claim, first letters = miller. Put that together -->
Claim: Miller.

Stoofer also implies that the other person that has recently been acting suspicious, HackerHuck, also picked up on the claim. Maybe HH was part of a 3 way scum discussion with G and Stoof.

HackerHuck obviously noticed that something was up because he asked Guardian how why he thought SlySLy was probably the other scum in [100] and [102].

I didn't know what a miller was before G's claim. I'm sure Mr. Stoofer does with all his mafia experience, both playing and modding.

Here's what the wiki has to say about it...

A Miller (sometimes called an Outsider) is typified as a member of the town with an air of corruption and/or suspicion surrounding him. Thus a Miller acts like a normal Townie in every way except for one important feature: whenever a Cop investigates a Miller, the Moderator returns a guilty result, even though the Miller is pro-Town.

Sometimes an important part of a Miller role is that the player is not told this aspect of their role. Rather the Moderator assigns one person to be the Miller, but only tells him/her that the role is a vanilla townie. Thus, the Miller cannot simply claim their role Day 1 as a prevention against lynching.

Guardian tries to cover the holes of his fake claim just like a good little minion of Mr. Stoofer should. He even admits that his role doesn't specify that he is a miller, but he full claimed it anyway.

Maybe it is because I subconsciously feel like scum, but I'm not, because best I can tell, I am a miller. My role PM says I am a townie, but it is not an exact copy of the townie role PM.

I could be crazy with this thinking but if only Hacker and Stoofer picked up on this virtual Cop claim of Guardian's, I could be on to something. There is definitely evidence there. I will be convinced if either Hacker or Stoofer change their Guardian vote if he gets nearer to being lynched.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we let him through how do we know he isnt scum and the cop shouldnt investigate him, sounds like an i am scum don't investigate me post.

QFT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guardian, millers are bad news for the town because investigations of them return guilty even though they are town, of course you already know that since Stoofer told you in night 0.

[Guardian]

I am annoyed that you virtually claimed Cop at the start of this game and you are now backing off from that.

I didn't pick up on G's virtual Cop claim. Maybe I am just dense or maybe my late entry to the game kind of helped me forget about night 0 somewhat. The possibility of G hinting that he was a Cop never entered my mind.

Stoofer's also... a better player/more experienced.

Guardian usually starts off the game messing about a bit,

posting in haikus

.

Funny that Stoofer mentions this just before Guardian points out his scumcrumbing earlier in the game...

First off, I never said: that's not accurate. I start off with haikus like... 3 times ever. Varying play style. Second off... that's it.

Like I said, it's about that thing, and also about how he made a very reaching interpretation of lord_hur's setup speculation.

Side Note:

M

eh,

I l

iterally

l

ike...

e

h...

r

eally feel I'm playing badly this game. So um... I'll try to play better? Mmm. Nighty night.

Side note = claim, first letters = miller. Put that together -->
Claim: Miller.

Stoofer also implies that the other person that has recently been acting suspicious, HackerHuck, also picked up on the claim. Maybe HH was part of a 3 way scum discussion with G and Stoof.

Wow, paranoia.

HackerHuck obviously noticed that something was up because he asked Guardian how why he thought SlySLy was probably the other scum in [100] and [102].

I didn't know what a miller was before G's claim. I'm sure Mr. Stoofer does with all his mafia experience, both playing and modding.

Here's what the wiki has to say about it...

A Miller (sometimes called an Outsider) is typified as a member of the town with an air of corruption and/or suspicion surrounding him. Thus a Miller acts like a normal Townie in every way except for one important feature: whenever a Cop investigates a Miller, the Moderator returns a guilty result, even though the Miller is pro-Town.

Sometimes an important part of a Miller role is that the player is not told this aspect of their role. Rather the Moderator assigns one person to be the Miller, but only tells him/her that the role is a vanilla townie. Thus, the Miller cannot simply claim their role Day 1 as a prevention against lynching.

Guardian tries to cover the holes of his fake claim just like a good little minion of Mr. Stoofer should. He even admits that his role doesn't specify that he is a miller, but he full claimed it anyway.

Um. My role says I'm

JEWISH

. I think that it is pretty reasonable to infer that a JEWISH player in this game who isn't scum is a miller.

Maybe it is because I subconsciously feel like scum, but I'm not, because best I can tell, I am a miller. My role PM says I am a townie, but it is not an exact copy of the townie role PM.

I could be crazy with this thinking but if only Hacker and Stoofer picked up on this virtual Cop claim of Guardian's, I could be on to something. There is definitely evidence there. I will be convinced if either Hacker or Stoofer change their Guardian vote if he gets nearer to being lynched.

Wow.

If we let him through how do we know he isnt scum and the cop shouldnt investigate him, sounds like an i am scum don't investigate me post.

QFT

Why's it sound more like that than a "im miller dont investigate me post".

Guardian, millers are bad news for the town because investigations of them return guilty even though they are town, of course you already know that since Stoofer told you in night 0.

Why does that make them bad news? I don't see where the bad news is coming from. If I never get investigated, how's it bad news? PS: any trackers, watchers, whatever, feel free to investigate me ;).

ROFL at me needing to be told what a Miller is by Stoofer. I think I've mod'd about 5 games on this site, and have played over 20. :P

SlySly's post is even more odd to me cuz it doesn't have him voting for me, despite him agreeing on all t his stuff. Not sure if thats odd in a good or bad way.

[SlySly]

Why does that make them bad news? I don't see where the bad news is coming from. If I never get investigated, how's it bad news?

Wouldn't be such bad news had you not claimed miller. You really weren't under any pressure to claim. Now we all know that if you are investigated, you will return guilty if you are scum or if your claim is true. That, IMO, is bad news for the town.

Wow, paranoia.

I do own a tin foil hat. Time will tell if I am wearing it unneededly in this instance.

I think that it is pretty reasonable to infer that a JEWISH player in this game who isn't scum is a miller.

After reading my role PM again, I think it is pretty reasonable to infer that any Jewish player in this game is scum.

ROFL at me needing to be told what a Miller is by Stoofer. I think I've mod'd about 5 games on this site, and have played over 20.

Duly noted. I didn't hear your fan club at the first of this game as I did Stoofer's.

SlySly's post is even more odd to me cuz it doesn't have him voting for me, despite him agreeing on all t his stuff.

Did you miss my post about my vote not going to change unless you reach L-1?

[Guardian]

No, that's an odd stance to take though.

[SlySly]

No, that's an odd stance to take though.

Not really, I still think Stoofer has been the scummiest in this game so far, though, other than the non-contributing lurkers, you have played the worst.

I would prefer to lynch Stoofer but I won't hesitate to hammer you as you are a close 2nd on my scum list. I doubt any investigations will be wasted on you at this point in the game.

[Singing Librarian]

Oh my...

So it comes down to a simple question, I suppose. Do we believe Guardian, or not? After reading through the last couple of pages of posts several times, I think not. The claim was unforced and doesn't in any way explain why Guardian acted the way he did. Not in the slightest. His argument seems to be that he acted scummy because he knew he'd come up scummy on investigation - bzuh?

Pretending to be a cop (even if most of us didn't notice) - bad. Easy way for us to lose a townie for no other reason than someone pretending to have got a guilty result on a random player.

Breadcrumbing - meh. The claim was completely unforced, completely unneccessary and impossible to prove. I simply don't believe it.

Unvote

(in case the other one is missed - I did it in the middle of a sentence, which wasn't very mod-friendly of me).

Vote: Guardian

I've still got my eye on tvod and m333, but urgh, yes, this is just awful.

[Mr Stoofer]

MOD

: please can we have a Vote Count.

[Mr Stoofer]

@SlySly

: I'm not sure at the moment what to think about your recent posts. But could I ask you to think a bit more deeply about the interaction between Guardian and me.

Guardian's plan was to breadcrumb as a Cop (with a guilty on you) right from the start of the game. He admits that, and if you look at his first ~8 posts you can see that it's true.

You can also see that I picked up on it very early in the game.

Now Guardian subsequently backed off from his breadcrumb. He stopped acting like he had a guilty result on you -- which confused me enormously.

Finally he said "Stoofer thinks I'm something I'm not". As a result I exposed him and he is going to be lynched as a result of the pressure I put on him.

Is that the way two scum buddies would work together? Surely I would have ignored his Cop breadcrumbs -- as everyone else did -- allowing him to either (a) claim Cop at a convenient moment, or (b) back off if he preferred? I would not have gone on the offensive the moment he backed off his breadcrumbs, would I?

I would also never have linked myself so strongly to his Cop claim (as I did in [105] and [168]) if I knew it was false (as I would do if I were his scumbuddy).

I would quite like your response to this, because at the moment I don't see you as being a partner with Guardian-scum; but I am also having severe doubts about you as a result of some of the points you are making.

[Guardian]

If I am lynched, when I'm dead consider:

Stoofer is acting too confident that I'm scum. He's reversing far too much, for too confidently, and giving up on tvod really easily.

I played like an idiot, but my thoughts now:

unvote vote: Stoofer

I bet you'll think I'm just babbling more. Whatever. I think I'm right and it is gratifying.

[Mr Stoofer]

That is the worst attempt at WIFOM I have ever seen.

[Musher333]

I am not sure if i have a vote going on someone, if i do it didn't show up on the last vote count but i can't remember unvoting, so

Unvote

maybe a guardian vote will come, i will wait and see how any votes away he is, stoofer still seems scummy to me.

[lord_hur]

In your opinion, shouldn't Stoofer, knowing that I had just rejoined the game, have kindly either a) answered my newly formed question, or b) pointed out that he had already answered a differently formed question of similar content in 111?

Well, you sorta answered your own question. Mr Stoofer would have done that if he was playing "kindly". Judging by his play in this game, this is not the case.

I asked your opinion of what Mr. Stoofer should have done. You did not give it in your response, any reason for that?

I thought I answered your question. To develop it, I think he would have probably appeared a bit less scummy had he done a) or b), so that's what he should have done logically.

[Mr Stoofer]

I'm having trouble understanding why Guardian hasn't been lynched yet. How much more evidence do you need than someone admitting that they pretended to be a Cop, tried to make people think they were a Cop, when they are not? And when challenged, claims Miller and says "don't investigate me tonight because I will come up as Scum"?

[hasdgfas]

Well, I'm not going to vote before another VC, but a Guardian lynch looks really, really good to me right now. I somewhat picked up on Guardian's faux-claim/breadcrumb early in the day, because I figured "Why would someone with no information be that confident on a certain person's scumminess?" I assumed he had some sort of information.

Then that claim came when it wasn't really needed. I'm always suspicious of claims that are unnecessary, because it's more like someone wants to get it out there and be believed for it, then actually being it.

Now Guardian's last post is pretty much crap:
Far too confident? Why wouldn't you be confident about a scum alignment for someone you thought was the cop, who was acting like a cop, and then backed off?
I also think it's safe to say that he's not giving up on tvod, but that he's found someone that he's

more

confident in.

I'm not buying it, Guardian.

[Musher333]

Now i think about it i agree at the moment a Guardian lynch is our best bet, lets wait and see how many votes he has and see his reply :d.

[Musher333]

He is at L-1 according to my count there.