mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[Evilgorrilaz]

It's not necessarily the wagon happy reason, I personally just have a bad feeling about you, It's just how I feel.

Explain.

Vote Count:

3 Evilgorrilaz (populartajo, iamausername, CoheedCambria09)
2 Alvinz95 (Mellowed Man, Gaspode)
1 mellowed man (Evilgorrilaz)
1 Gaspode (Marmalade)


With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

[CoheedCambria09]

No, its not that type of reason, it's one of those gut feelings, the ones where if you lined up a bunch of people, there may be one or two that just stick out to you, not for any particular reason, but they just do, I have that feeling with you.

[Mellowed Man]

Alright, so for some reason I think iamusername and alvinz95 are like a pair, it is just an illusion that came to my mind when rereading the 1st post of Iamusername, on page 5, etc. and so on.

Post 100 by iamusername has me on the edge, so I will try to explain tomorrow.

[Gaspode]

<---Product of US public schools. Although to be fair, most of my vocabulary probably didn't come from that. Reading a lot as a kid helped, as did reading sites like this for the past five years (seriously, it helps a lot).

Now, however, it's my turn for vocabulary questions: What do EDWOP and IC mean?

Also, I wouldn't say the argument against you is moot. It's been badly stated for a few pages, but the basic principles still apply. It's just not quite as big a deal as some people have made it (IMO).

[Evilgorrilaz]

EDWOP = EBWOP
I can't type =p

[ashmite84]

Just caught up. A lot is being said, which is good, but nothing that jumps out at me particularly for now. Evilgorillaz has faded a bit on my scumdar since my last post and now. His post 117 rings true. A bit WIFOMy maybe, but plausable enough for me for now.

[Hypatia]

I personally don't think "wagon happy" was ever really correct for Evilgorillaz. I would consider "wagonhappy" a term for someone who likes to bandwagon, and I think that's an individual playstyle issue rather than necessarily a scum or town tell. (Can being wagonhappy be dangerous? Yes.) As was said earlier, he didn't seem very wagonhappy, and if he turns up town the quick voters on him will prove interesting.

I found Evilgorillaz specifically scummy for his joke post at 50, and although post 65 was not overtly scummy it did not make him seem townier to me. However it seems to me that the suspicion going around him went up quickly, and since he won the general award for "most scummy" in almost everyone's post we don't have a whole lot of information out of this.

I will do a thorough reread later today and see what my personal "second scummiest" would be so far. I would like to hear others' "runner-up" if they still think Evilgorillaz is scummiest, or their new first choice. I realize that almost everything is gut feelings and wild paranoiac theories on Day One, but it is good to start laying some stuff down.

[Cream147]

Sorry I haven't posted as much as I like people! I'm not intentionally lurking, though it's quite clear that I am lurking. I haven't got into the feel of this game yet. However, I have just gave it a quick reread and that has got me back into the swing of things.

I am not liking alvinz at the moment for several reasons. First, he singled out Elias among the lurkers, and used incredibly bad logic to back it up. Someone said why would alvinz try to single out someone as experienced as Elias. Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

I don't think Elias is scum at all (lynch all lurkers is a bad policy), but, what I meant was that if there was scum in that group then I would say Elias.

Even after your logic was shown to be stupid, you continued to go with it! I don't see where you're coming from there at all. Just because Elias is IC doesn't mean anything.

I think that the small FoS on iamausername is COMPLETELY uncalled for. No one's really noticed that, but I have, and it's for a poor reason. I agree with iamausername about your idea to get everyone say the most townly and most scummy. To me, that's most useful to the scum as they can collect information such as 'Who shall we nightkill' and 'Who shall we scapegoat next'.

All this makes you the most scummy player in my books at the moment, and definitely earns you a

Vote:alvinz95

. Please comeback on all of my points.

[Elias_the_thief]

Tajo: yeah, its part of my scum play too, but my point stands. The antidefensiveness meta is ridonkulous. As for the bandwagoning, I already touched on why I dont find early game wagoning scummy. Therefore theres nothing of note about evilgorrilaz except that pretentious is not in his vocabulary.

[alvinz95]

Sorry I haven't posted as much as I like people! I'm not intentionally lurking, though it's quite clear that I am lurking. I haven't got into the feel of this game yet. However, I have just gave it a quick reread and that has got me back into the swing of things.

I am not liking alvinz at the moment for several reasons. First, he singled out Elias among the lurkers, and used incredibly bad logic to back it up. Someone said why would alvinz try to single out someone as experienced as Elias. Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

I don't think Elias is scum at all (lynch all lurkers is a bad policy), but, what I meant was that if there was scum in that group then I would say Elias.

Even after your logic was shown to be stupid,

you continued to go with it

! I don't see where you're coming from there at all.

Just because Elias is IC doesn't mean anything.

I think that the small FoS on iamausername is

COMPLETELY

uncalled for. No one's really noticed that, but I have, and it's for a

poor reason

. I agree with iamausername about your idea to get everyone say the most townly and most scummy. To me, that's most useful to the scum as they can collect information such as 'Who shall we nightkill' and 'Who shall we scapegoat next'.

All this makes you the most scummy player in my books at the moment, and definitely earns you a Vote:alvinz95. Please comeback on all of my points.

I hate these posts. To me, you have poorly reread an misinterpreted what I said. I've explained most of those points you've made, yet you have failed to understand.

First off, thats a lot of reasons why I "definitely" earn a vote (sarcasm).

Liike 2

. Again, do you think I meant to lynch him? And does my crap-logic contribute to scumminess? No, its just logic I tried to make up to comment on Gaspode. All the things that are held against me are things that I've posted to comment on everyone's posts, like a good town member, always joining conversation. And, the least townie, most townie thing was to "speed up conversation".

Second, on elias the thief.

Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

So you're saying I'm trying to lynch him? Why would I lynch a lurker? You haven't reread the thread I'm pretty sure. Again I say, the crap-logic was just a reply, not real scumhunting. If I wanted to lynch him, maybe I would put a FoS or a vote on. And refer to what populartajo said.

Mmm, why would he (a relative newbie) would suspect Elias (an experieced player) and for a weak reason? Wouldnt newbie scum avoid this kind of players?

Lastly, WTF?

I think that the small FoS on iamausername is

COMPLETELY

uncalled for. No one's really noticed that, but I have, and it's for a

poor reason

.

So just because I put a SMALL fos on iamausername for a "poor" reason, then its COMPLETELY uncalled for? Thats

OVEREXAGGERATED

. If I voted him, then that would just be uncalled for. And if I said "iamausername is scum!" then that would be COMPLETELY uncalled for. No, actually making him claim would be completely uncalled for. I find this as a poor reason to add to your list of scumy actions so your vote seems more valid.

definitely earns you a Vote:alvinz95

Are you serious? These reasons that have already been tooken up, and replied, and one other pathetic, poor, reason, results in a DEFINITE vote? I see this as scum trying to grab a chance to lynch as cream sees a wagon, except there isn't enough stuff to say. You may call my stance defensive, but this attack is a ridiculous scum move.

MAJOR FoS: Cream147

[CoheedCambria09]

So three votes for both Evilgorrilaz and alvinz95, these two have seemed to catch the most attention from everyone. I think that Alvinz did a good job of defending himself in the last post. It seems though that he was getting a bit angry in it. Was this a scum tell, or just a good-townie trying not to die?

[Evilgorrilaz]

I agree with iamausername about your idea to get everyone say the most townly and most scummy. To me, that's most useful to the scum as they can collect information such as 'Who shall we nightkill' and 'Who shall we scapegoat next'.

Rundowns do not necessarily give a path for the scum. As a matter of fact, often scum are intelligent enough to deduce who we think is town by a mere who we think is scummy list.

[Elias_the_thief]

Dont try to tell me anger is a scumtell. I'll hunt you down and kill you. Also, I like Alvinz response.

[CoheedCambria09]

I never said it was, I was merely asking a question

[alvinz95]

I'll hunt you down and kill you.

Now we're

pretty fcked up becuase Elias is scum.

joke

[alvinz95]

often scum are intelligent enough to deduce who

we

think is town

Who we? You have just mistakenly given your role out maybe. For now...

Vote: Evilgorrilaz

Comes off when you can properly explain.

[Evilgorrilaz]

We as in the people in this game

[alvinz95]

Ok. Weird. When i first read it, i thought it said that we=the scum. Second time, it made more sense. Lol.

unvote

[CoheedCambria09]

This is just a side question, but how long do day/night phases last in games, or does it vary?

[Gaspode]

Night=about 72 hours, on average.
Day=forever, and then some.

I agree that anger, at least in this situation, is not a scumtell. It can contribute to some suspiciousness in some cases, but plenty of pro-town people get angry when confronted with CrapLogic.

Speaking of which, I agree that most of Cream's post was not all that great. However, alvinz' reply, while sufficient in some areas, wasn't all that spectacular. My main problem with it is the attempt to write everything off as "a good townie's reply to other posts simply to promote discussion".

Again I say, the crap-logic was just a reply, not real scumhunting.

This is a terrible defense. Everything after page one is a reply to someone's post. Yes, discussion is good, but that doesn't give you a free pass to say anything you want and then write it off later. If you don't have anything to say, don't say anything. It's not a crime to be quiet for a (real-life) day or two.

[populartajo]

Thought 1: If Evilgorrilaz is scum, then Mellowed Man and Cream are his most possible scumpartners, maybe Gaspode.
Reason : Evilgorrilaz is highly suspected, but :

All this makes you the most scummy player in my books at the moment, and definitely earns you a Vote:alvinz95. Please comeback on all of my points.

I also think he uses too much weak logic for my taste.

Alright, so for some reason I think iamusername and alvinz95 are like a pair, it is just an illusion that came to my mind when rereading the 1st post of Iamusername, on page 5, etc. and so on.

As you can see, I still dont like this guy.
Now, Gaspode, do you still like your vote for Alvin? What do you think of evilgorrilaz?

Thought 2: I approve the majority of Alvinz post but:
[quote:"Alvinz"]All the things that are held against me are things that I've posted to comment on everyone's posts,

like a good town member

, always joining conversation. [/quote]
Was that necessary to post that?
Anyways, Im liking alvinz more and more. Ive played with him before so I feel that he's acting town. If you told me to pick a lynch today I'd totally go with Evilgorrilaz or Cream.

[Hypatia]

And does my crap-logic contribute to scumminess? No, its just logic I tried to make up to comment on Gaspode.

Crap-logic

always

contributes to the general level of scumminess in the game. It's like peeing in the swimmingpool of this game. At best it's unhelpful. At worst it muddies the waters, obscuring *good* logic and reasons to suspect people, and misleading the less clearheaded of us. And crap-logic is scummy because scum have fewer good reasons to cast suspicion on townies than smart townies do on scum; so anytime you reach for the crap-logic you look like a scum trying to get a townie mislynch.

Again I say, the crap-logic was just a reply, not real scumhunting.

Well I'll agree that crap-logic is not scumhunting... BUT IT'S STILL CRAP. {I had more but then I got to Gaspode's post 144, and he said it all.}

[Elias_the_thief]

Thought 1: tajos thought would have been better left unsaid until a later stage of the game so that were it correct, more evidence could have been compiled to support the theory up until a point when it was actually useful

The second thought is meh. Not in actuality that scummy, but worth noting.

[Gaspode]

Now, Gaspode, do you still like your vote for Alvin? What do you think of evilgorrilaz?

Well, I can't say I love it (or that I ever did--I am rarely overjoyed about any day 1 vote), but I don't really see anything that has changed since I voted that would make me unvote (do you? or were you just checking in?). I still don't think there's anyone scummier at the moment. I'm not saying it would be impossible for this to change, but I don't like being flaky with my votes.

Would anyone mind laying out a good case against Evilgorrilaz? All I can see is the following: Stupid bandwagoning at the beginning (which I've discussed before), his dumb "lynch all lurkers" comment (obviously a joke, albeit a bad one), and his refusal to metagame (yes, a bit scummy, but no smoking gun). Maybe I'm missing some of his posts, but the case as it stands right now doesn't seem terribly convincing to me.

[Evilgorrilaz]

(obviously a joke, albeit a bad one),

DON'T DISS MY JOKES
Also, how does a refusal to metagame seem scummy?