Loser Mafia (Game Over)

[PokerFace]

I got an idea. Assuming he has still not picked it up, you could delete it from your outbox. That should remove the message from his inbox before he has a chance to read it. Then throw him onto the replacements list and let him come in later for someone else, should someone else have to leave the game later. That way armlx won't know what role he originally had, so him coming into replace someone else later could be possible, I think.

[PokerFace]

Meh, there is no need to apoligize. Playing with Armlx for the first time outside of scumchat will definatly be fun. The game starting was the only thing I needed.

vote armlx

is there any strategy anyone has for this kind of game?

As far as strategy goes, we are suppose to find and lynch town. Lord this game is going to be a head trip.

Vote:TheSweatpantsNinja

Mafiso's wear suits and expensive shoes. A guy in sweatpants has to be town.

[PokerFace]

Man Jester, some of your earlier posts in general seem to convey you are greatly concerned about how townie you look.

unvote vote zombieslayer

Policy Quicklynch. JD?

Behold. The one time that I will NOT get angry at FlameAxe or JDodge for quicklynching/bandwagoning me.

I should savour this moment.

Ok, Dahill, why are you attacking someone for VOTING you? The point of this game is to GET voted.

people were accusing me of being scummy
i can understand if TVOD was random voting me, but why would you vote for the person who is apparently scummy? if i were him, my vote wouldn't go on me at this moment in the game

And this looks funny somehow cause it looks like you are saying you consider yourself looking scummy at the moment, and that you wouldn't vote yourself. Kinda sounds like you are saying you think you are scum.

_________________

Well, maybe that is the only thing he has to go on, so therefore he votes for you?

Just because someone does that does NOT mean they are scummy.

Anti-HOS on dahill1.

Anti-HOS? Somehow that confuses me since HOS means Hand or suspicion. So you point your hand with suspicion at him or not? I think it will be easier for me to FOS or HOS those who I find to be scum and vote those I find to be town. That seems less confusing to me. And for the moment my vote is staying on ninja because this here is some good logic.

DG: No, not really. I mean, you didn't even try to make an argument, so I just sort of skimmed right over it.

In other news, I have a proposition: No one self-vote, because that makes it harder to get a consensus/come to a lynch, and we treat L-2 as L-1, because its in everyone's interest to self-hammer anyway.

Self hammering is a powerful tool in this setup. If you know you are town and are at L-1 it is actually a good move as long as there is nothing else to be said Especially in lylo (or rather ly-win: lynch scum or 'win' in this game). One of the wonders of this setup is it does not allow for both mafiso's to force a 2 vote speedlynch win. They both have to be lynched, not just one of them. If we can find just one scum and keep that one alive, the town will win. We don't have to find both, but still we should find both so that we can win faster and better.

I think a strategy we can do here is to just go and randomly lynch someone for today. We have a 11/13 shot at taking out a townie, why not just go for it?

Nocmen's plan here is sound. Odds are definatly in our favor of finding and lynching town. BUT if we find and lynch one of the mob quickly, we may loose info that could otherwise allow us to link together and find the two scum together. So statisically, yes that is a brilliant idea but in the long run it can't be used forever especially if we mess up and lynch one of them. If one of the scum is lynched the strategy falls apart and only the dead mafiso's alignment or voting habbits could point us to the other scum. I think discussion may be more useful in the long run so that we have more than just those 2 ways to find the scum.

It takes the scum at least 2 days and 1 night to win (2 scum and 1 town dead). It takes the town at least 5days and 4 nights to win (9 dead townies; 2 mafia and 2 town alive) We will need some longer strategy to get through 5 days.

[PokerFace]

I bet Flameaze and Zoneace are arlmx'z townbuddies. Mark my words.

DGB you are funny there is no question about that, and though I enjoy your jokes as much as the next guy, it should be noted that ZoneAce is not in this game.

...Like I said, ZA and Flame are the safe lynches today and tomorrow. Makes life easy for us.

ZA is the abreviation for the player ZoneAce. ZoneAce is not playing this game. Zombie Slayer =/= Zoneace.

90% sure both FA and Zombie are town as well, and quite frankly they are both going to be less productive then poker this game and are the only people I'm remotely convinced of their townieness.

Vote FA

for being less productive so far then Zombie.

Also Armlx I fail to see how you are so convinced Flame Axe is town. Armlx, you yourself, have posted more content/words than Flame Axe in this game. Can you please show why you are 90% certain he is town?

...With that said:

Votes FlameAxe

No way he can be Mafia this often. He HAS to be Townie this game.

Are you making a random vote?

...Also: I seriously need to find a way to automatically switch between regular Mafia and Loser Mafia mindsets easily. 'Cause I keep thinking that I WANT to vote certain people, but then I realize that means that I do NOT want to vote them.

Screws up my thinking.

The Objective of this game is to lynch town. I want to lynch town. I have to agree that its mechanics are screwy to the point that winning in a general mafia game would be like loosing here. No wonder the guy that made this setup was called "Fiasco". I am going to try and look at the game mechanics and try to get an idea or two of a breaking strategy based on its special rules of lynches and night kills being compulsory or enforced. later.

[PokerFace]

Well like alot of people I don't really get what DGB is getting at with the townie should act scummy thing. I don't think its a good idea for a townie to ever act scummy. I tried to think of a good idea or means to go about trapping the the scum based on mechanicz but I think the direction we are going is probably best with just one comment further clarified or added in.

To win the game we have to trap the mafia with 2 townies. in other words narrow things down to 4 people that we all agree are most likely to be scum. Then we can together lynch those who we believe are not scum. Probably the best thing I can think of at this moment without hurting my head by staring at the rules longer.

Now can anyone tell me what towntell exactly Flame Axe is making, or will I have to end up metaing him? I have rarely played with him so I'm not totally sure what you guys are getting at.

[PokerFace]

I still don't understand what goofball was driving at earlier.

unvote - PokerFace is TOO useful. Given that we had leveled serious charges of being useful earlier on, a normal response would have been to correct this behavior, and become chaotic and useless. However, PF sank himself further when trying to find order and try to come up with a strategy. It's obvious that he wants to be lynched. I will not be a party to it.

She says I continued to be useful and/or helpful when it was understood that doing that was not desirable. Some players were fileing charges not to lynch the useful players. If the growing concensus at that time was not to lynch the useful players, then continueing to be useful wouldn't have gotten me lynched back then.

And Jester I seem to remember you saying you were going to take a look at the mechanics too.

Don't Meta, it makes you look silly. With this being Reverse-Pseudo logic mafia, you'll get more confused with the results you shouldn't base and verify 100% upon.

The "town-tell" for flameaxe that I know of is a joke I made about him confirming he's Town because of what he said in a thread about the avatar meme.

Maybe I'll stare at the mechanics though, it sounds like fun.

I re-read the mechanics to see if there was an easy way I may have overlooked. Figuring out who one of them is and keeping them around with the others is the basis of writing up the suspicion net I mentioned earlier. We should do some scum hunting to go along with the town lynching

I missed the Shyguy wagon. That thing formed fast, but at least we got some good comments out of it. Considering the stuff shy guy said and who i'm most certain is town. I would be voting Zombie Slayer right now, but that would put him at L-1 and ending the day before everyone checks in with any comments they may have so I'll wait for the others to get here before I vote him too.

[PokerFace]

Sorry about lurking there, was busy with other games and junk. I'll reread dahill, but the rest sounds good. I haven't seen jdodge do anything scummy yet. For those that might not know BBM is Flameaxe

Vote: FlameAxe

That's L-2

Anything else need discussing?

[PokerFace]

Meant to hit preview there oh well.

I think what ninja was driving at earlier was that some of us signed up in the queue and joined this game because it has the principle that getting lynched is a good thing, but not every member of the town needs to be lynched. We can finish or get through the game via other means. Scum only win the game by getting lynched. We win as long as they both don't get lynched.

We should stop at L-2 to see if anything else needs discussed

[PokerFace]

Well Flameaxe is undoubtably town now. As the game continues self voting should indeed not be done until hammer time. Ninja alluded to some of that day 1 but we sorta strayed away from that and what he said day 2 was important, it isn't a good idea for the town to self vote until hammertime.

Now to comment on what else has gone on during the day. I will not be voting for Jester. I am starting to think his random portal comments are there perhaps because he has given up. I am also for keeping vampire around. His ideas on who the scum pair are is rather baffiling, as dahill pointed out earlier. Vamp is either someone that looks too much for distancing or he is scum. I will not be voting vamp or jester. I thought it would be harder to find the scum but I guess not. I'd be very surprised if one or maybe both of them weren't scum.

Since I mentioned a suspicion list of 4, I'll mention 2 others I would like to keep around despite it possibly not being necessary.
Shadow lurker - Have no real read on him since he has only posted once.
dahill - A few of his actions day one still seem peculiar to me. Though I lean toward thinking he is the most probable town in this group of four because of how he has been voting.

I figure that group should net 1 or possibly both scum. With all that in mind I think I am fine with the hammer now. Once everyone else has given there ok, Flameaxe can drop it like its hot.

[PokerFace]

Sorry I didn't post sooner. I read the thread looking back at day 3, armlx does make a good point about where dahill1 probably stands in post 272. It should be ok to lynch him in the future. Considering armlx's 4 and the fact we got more than 1 probable town person alive, we should have this won tomorrow. Not everyone can die during the night after all. Not really much else to comment on since ninja's last post still has him looking townish so I'll see you later.

[PokerFace]

Vote: PokerFace

[PokerFace]

bah!

yay! Go Scum!

Drop the act good buddy. I officially owe Korlash Big time!

[PokerFace]

I'll comment on this game more tomorrow when I get off work. I got to go to sleep now. I made some big mistakes especially with the nightkills. DGB had me pegged. More on that later. I would especially like to know how she would have played this as scum. She read me well. She is a better player then most people give her credit for. I regret and didn't like having to kill her. I like to have fun in games and I feel I lowered this game's fun level by killing her. I realize it may have been the best choice considering where we are now, but I still didn't like it. I really want to hear her comments.

I'll leave with summary before I go to sleep.

Pokerface day 1 when getting voted


PokerFace when he realized DGB was right about him with that strategy tell


PokerFace Days 2-3 as he deals with partner and he himself not getting voted


PokerFace during day 5

I literally laughed so hard I cried.

PokerFace when Korlash won it

[PokerFace]

PokerFace Days 2-4* as he deals with partner and he himself not getting voted

At any rate good game. Sorry if I came off bragging this game was rough and difficult. I did alot of thinking on this game and it really messed with my head. oh well later guys. I'll comment more tomorrow. Good game town

[PokerFace]

Town mistakes:

D1 lynching ShyGuy, a productive obv town member.

Jathan's just showing up and arguing against the obv town.

Jester + DGB having more filler then content most of the time.

Me not following the night actions in end game and listening to Korlash of all people.

Trusting PokerFace.

Scum Mistakes:

Killing "confirmeds" over "confirmers"

I like how almost every single point in this post is wrong.

Your fundamental strategy rested on being lynched. That lost the game for town.

I'd love to make a quote pyramid out of this. Getting rid of other confirmeds got me lynched because I was so trusted. I am an actor in real life. It is my job to make you think I am something I am not! Why kill confirmers when they will lynch me too? I suppose killing certain confirmers would have gotten me lynched quicker (More on that later), but I think I did pretty well on my own.

Anyone can talk all they want, but I had little to no help in this.

I should be the one saying this. But seriously Vamp did do some comments and work so I not mad at him. This game was good. I owe Korlash and am anxious to see what DGB says. Later all.

[PokerFace]

Jathan = Shadowlurker

now I got to get some sleep bad. Later

[PokerFace]

hmm...Took you a little while to guess it, Jdodge, but since this statement is very true

Jester + DGB having more filler then content most of the time.

DGB was pretty much right the entire time she was in this game, wasn't she? And you're the one who was too stupid to realize Jester was town.

Interestingly enough, DGB agreed Jester was scummy. As did everyone bar you and Jathan.

Like I said - pretty much. One scum read on town shouldn't be game-losing, like one town read on scum shouldn't be game-losing.

you had some breathing room.

In truth I sent the kill of Jdodge for the following reasons. The day before he was killed, Armlx said he was fairly certain Jdodge and dahill were town. Also Jdodge's playing style throughout the game was that of the AITP style. He was voting and lynching quickly. Someone that lynches that rappidly without giving his viewpoint is a problem. They are unpredictable. It impossible to predict or find a moment in which they are gauranteed to vote you. Because i had no means of predicting how you would play, because you looked very town, and because you were rappidly lynching others without discussion, you had to go. Also as Armlx said, because you and I had played with each other alot on irc, I considered the possibility of you catching on to my plans a good possibility and I certainly couldn't predict when or if you would catch on.

The killing of dahill was made because Armlx believed him to be town. He was pretty much the most likly to get lynched day 5 next to me.

The kill of Dripping Goofball was made on night 2 for a few reasons aswell. She was a supporter of other lynches like Flameaxe's. I had defended myself to her day1 attack on me earlier on in day2 and she made no rebuttal, which would portray a sence of the "The heat has gone off to all onlookers", a portrayal of her dropping her case on me. Sure she could still be planing to ignore and not lynch me during the rest of the game, but if she died right then she certainly wouldn't be able to rebutal my response later. I was voted by ninja on day 3 and had DGB been around I'm certain she would have said something about that.

The kill of Nocmen I'd argue as being a mistake. Nocmen did make some comments referencing stuff Vampire said so there was a slim chance he could have been useful to lynching Vampire later. He was gotten rid of because he would probably be lynched before he could contribute to that and I considered the possibility of him catching me since I have played with him before as scum. See newbie game 422. A better kill would have been Zombie Slayer since I beleive some of the stuff I said about self voting days 2 and 3 may have hurt my credibility with the players including Ninja. Look at ninja's comments on day 4 for more on that. I think had zombie been gone sooner with DGB still as the second kill I may have gotten lynched on day 4 and Vampire could have gotten lynched later depending on circumstances.

Another good option would have been killing Armlx on night1 and allow someone else, possibly myself, to assume the stance armlx portrayed against Jester. That could have also gotten me lynched earlier since armlx was the one person most intent on keeping me around. Armlx dieing night 1 and DGB dieing night 2 would have been useful pending on who took the stance against Jester. Armlx trusted me alot and wouldn't vote me til late while other players were willing to vote me imediatly like ninja did on day 3, so things may have been better to never have the self voting discussion or not have anybody willing to keep me around so long. A blow out could have been possible like that depending on Vampire's later play after that situation. I am not so certain that would have worked out well for us, but it was a viable option.

Armlx and Jester were kept around after day*2* no matter what simply because of their disagreement. Because they did not like each other, they would not lynch each other especially in a lylo situation. Armlx trusted me so I figured I could use that too my advantage. I still wish I could have made use of that sooner since I got lynched late in the game, but the events surrounding my lynching on day 5 were worth it. The comments on day one and five made me laugh so hard.

I am not sure why Shadow lurker was killed. Shadowlurker's fake PR and apearance out of no where certainly changed things. Armlx's playing to get lynched as well certainly hurt things and could have been used to make Armlx out to be scum had both of them been around day 6. That was an interesting plan Jathan. I never thought of killing you since you weren't a threat. I did tell Vampire early in the game that if you forever remained silent, you would need to die since you weren't going to vote us, but you did not remain silent so I am not 100% sure why he killed you. Had i been alive and vampire gotten lynched I would have killed Jester since it is obvious that the fued between Armlx and ShadowLurker wouldn't yeild either of them lynching the other. Then again I am more active then vampire so I would have been around to self hammer instantly the moment armlx or shadow voted. Throughout niughts 1-4 when the Armlx & Jester quarel was going on strong i sent vampire the basic idea of keep the two of them around to lynch us off should we get cramped near lylo situation. Perhaps he kept that idea more prominently in his head since he did not post much during the game and didn't say too much at night. His tardiness of getting back to me on most nights is why things took so long at night. Perhaps he didn't even read day 5 when he made his choice. Regardless I think Korlash did a good job day 6. If there is any player that can get through that kind of awkward situation it is Korlash. If there is any player that can get Jester to vote him, it is Korlash. Armlx did give Korlash some trouble on day five. Jester and Armlx may have worked better for Korlash than Shadow and armlx anyway so I guess its good, though I am still amazed how Korlash made use of his skills to turn what was a terrible lylo situation to his advantage.

Sorry about not making this post sooner i have been rather busy as of late. I still wish DGB would comment. She of all people has knowledge about getting lynched considering her claims to fame in her wiki. I think we (The scum) could have done better in this game, the pace of lynches threw some things off, but all in all things went well. If anyone ever wants me to post or see the night comunications they are welcome to pm any time. Later all gg.

(Lylo referes to get lynched or loose in this post. this game was fun and confusing throughout. Perhaps I'll join Fiasco's next setup being run should I have the time.)

[PokerFace]

One more thing

And as for ShyGuy lynch D1, my point was he was the perfect NK for them (pretty confirmed town and useful) and we lynched him.

Pretty confirmed town is the exact reason we were right in lynching him. As a bonus, we forced the scum to kill a less confirmed member, thus making our job as a town easier.

This was the strategy I wanted to introduce. I would have said this immediatly as town. I did not thinking my acting/writing skills would make me come off so useful so I didn't say it at the start as scum. Had I known I could trick everyone so well I may have said it early, but the moment DGB caught me it became impossible for me to say it. On night1 we considered the option of having my partner say it, but that would only lead to conections between us should it imediatly result in my lynch.

Pre-Game and Night1 were the only ntimes Vampire was really helpful because he was not sick yet. My strategy was come off as town and get lynched early. His was after I had gotten lynched he was going to make use of a conservative play style. This style would involve him getting Shadow Lurker and Flameaxe lynched. The two of them were doing nothing and hense not rying so they wouldn't be linked. After these lynches earned him some trust he could eventually get himself lynched. Things feel apart after night 1. Just before i sent the kill he said he got sick. Things fell apart day 2 and that plan was scrapped. He later lost interest while he lightly responded to me during the following nights. Korlash had to pick up and fix things on the last day and the situation played well towards him and his style for the most part. later all.

[PokerFace]

Thanks goofball, I <3 you too. Think you wouldn't mind saying how you would have played as scum? I'm curious to how you would have done it. I have but one fear from this game. That I will get lynched as town for being too useful in the future over meta info from this game.