Pick your Poison 3 (Game Over)

[Coron]

Day Rolecop + encryptor makes a strong combination, so I want to stay away from that, in fact, although it might seem weird in this case, I think we want to leave the scum in the dark, and not give them a rolecop, basically because it makes the roleblocker and encryptor roles much better. In general I don't think vigs are a good idea to give scum, but it may end up being the least of these evils, roleblocker I think would be for sure, encryptor could hurt us a lot in end game, so I'm not really sure about that. Godfather screws with out info a bit, but again, better than the other options I think. So basically the choice is between 2 shot vig or encryptor, let me know what you think.

[Coron]

Vote: Godfather, 3 shot Roleblocker, Encryptor

for now, with the understanding that I would be willing to switch to 2 shot vig if that gains any ground

[Coron]

After review, 2 shot vig costs us one day, which, if you think about it isn't that bad, the confusion of an encryptor could cost us lots more...

Overall I'd be a lot happier with going with an 2 shot vig so, let it be known, that if 2 shot vig gets a good bandwagon I will join it.

[Coron]

Vote: Godfather, Encryptor

Vig is definitely the worst role we can give them, imo. I do not approve of giving the scum two extra kills. As of now I am undecided on whether the rb or the rolecop.

If encryptor causes 1 mislynch it's already as bad as vig.

Unvote: Encryptor Vote: 3 shot vig

[Coron]

er 2 shot vig there... silly brain, confusing things.

[Coron]

Vote: 2 shot vig

[Coron]

Vote: StarkMoon

[Coron]

Vote: Coron

Obvscum trying too hard to push for the acquisition of a two-shot vig.

[Coron]

I'd like to point out that the Encryptor does more than just allow daytalking...

The second ability is imho much much stronger, and may cause much confusion/mislynching late in the game.

[Coron]

I'd like to point out that the Encryptor does more than just allow daytalking...

The second ability is imho much much stronger, and may cause much confusion/mislynching late in the game.

I agree. In fact, the daytalking doesn't really phase me at all, I think that that facet of the role is over-rated. Having a role hidden from us could be a thorn in our side later, but I don't think it is a patch on the 2 shot vig. Picture this: for whatever reason we mislynch on D1, the scum make their regular kill on Night 1 plus the vig makes a successful extra kill. Then for whatever reason we mislynch on D2 then the same happens night 2. All of a sudden we are down 6 townies. This is all speculatory as there are factors that could prevent same, plus the scum might not have played it like that anyway. It's just a bit of a scary thought to me. It's also moot at this point as they didn't get the vig. What

is

in contention is your support of this. Now I know that different people have different opinions and it may be that you are innocent and that was simply your opinion, but I know that personally the vig was one of two that jumped out at me

not

to let them get. I think I'm happy with my vote on you for now.

I almost feel like I've explained my choice before. Hm, perhaps it was post 31? Oh yeah, that was it.

If the lack of role reveal causes 1 mislynch it's already JUST as bad as a 2 shot vig(shortening the game by 1 day).

The real thing is it can mess with our numbers of how much power role we should have when it comes down to mass claim time, say we end up with 4 of the 3 point roles and we have a role that dies before massclaim and ends up ???, in the end we end up with 4 3 point roles claiming, can we trust them? Can't we? If we end up with 5 3 point roles claiming do we assume only 1 is scum or could there be 2 of them in there?

I don't like adding this uncertainty into the game honestly, I didn't like the idea of a vig either, but the whole point of this game is pick your

poison

not pick your bed of roses, so I picked what I figured as the better of two evils.

[Coron]

Unvote: Ether

[Coron]

Oops.

Unvote: Starkmoon

my bad.

[Coron]

@Coron:

Why did you not bother to comment on the progression of my wagon or actually become involved in any form of scum-hunting? Also, what was the reason for your recent unvote?

Part 1: I dunno, in large games I tend to be quieter early, too many people to easily keep track of them all like I'd like to, plus there really isn't that much info on a lot of people at this point.

Part 2: You question my unvote but not my vote in the first place?

[Coron]

Part 2: You question my unvote but not my vote in the first place?

I was thinking the vote was a random one. Was there an actual reason you placed the vote in the first place?

Yes, and I unvoted for that reason. It was random, no reason to keep it.

[Coron]

Vote: Babygirl

best I have for now.

[Coron]

Babygirl's reaction is reasonable. If I were a newbie, I would probably have thought along similar lines.

Anyways, about this whole claim-who-you-would-protect-if-you-were-a-weak-doc thing. When are we doing this again?

Dunno, when we get serious about lynching people(not just pressuring) I'd guess.

[Coron]

unvote vote: mellowed man

[Coron]

unvote Vote: Mr. Incrediball

For implying that day 1 is worthless.

[Coron]

This brings up an interesting question, in the case that we decide you should hammer should you claim?

unvote Vote: Mellowed

Hammer placer: Mr. I

[Coron]

mhm

[Coron]

It's also possible he hid with baby girl.

[Coron]

Both were clearly killed by the mafia though, correct, so to mean it means nothing that the means of murder was different, I assume that's only flavor.

I don't get how 256 pertains.

[Coron]

Care to read the excerpt from Patrick's night scene?

Doh! For some reason I thought that was a quote from another player.

[Coron]

Vote: Flameaxe

[Coron]

Flameaxe is obv town this game. Your vote is bad.

People who act like retards earn my vote for being detrimental to town.

[Coron]

Hi guys, I'm afraid I won't really be able to spend much time online the next couple days.

[Coron]

unvote Vote: scotmany12

[Coron]

@ Coron - why the unvote, why the vote? 'splain.

The person I unvoted looked less lke scum, and the person I voted looked more like scum.

[Coron]

@ Coron - why the unvote, why the vote? 'splain.

The person I unvoted looked less lke scum, and the person I voted looked more like scum.

Unsatisfactory.

is there a better reason?

[Coron]

@ Coron - why the unvote, why the vote? 'splain.

The person I unvoted looked less lke scum, and the person I voted looked more like scum.

Unsatisfactory.

is there a better reason?

Yeah.

Why did you think that.

So there is a better reason to unvote other than a person looks less like scum? Is there a better reason to vote other than they look like scum? Please explan.

The 2nd part doesn't proces as a declarative sentence.

[Coron]

The better reason is to say why you think this, rather then just "A isn't scum, B is".

Why don't you do some research, look at the posts, I don't have any information here you can't get from reading his posts, I personally looked at the posts in isolation.

[Coron]

Both were clearly killed by the mafia though, correct, so to mean it means nothing that the means of murder was different, I assume that's only flavor.

I don't get how 256 pertains.

Why would mafia not know that the mafia had only killed one person?

As much as I hate to get on the way of someone calling me town... Both *were* killed by the mafia in some way. Don't act like I'm an idiot here. I didn't mean they were both targeted by the mafia as such a thing would be impossible seeing that we know the scum power roles, I meant that they hid with the person killed or hid with a mafia, and a second killing faction(like SK, which often use knives in flavor of games), is out of the question.

Since I voted Flameaxe several things have happened, he's posted more semi-useful stuff, and has not voted himself again(which was my main problem to begin with). And also I found a scummier person. While I would still be fine with a Flameaxe lynch, it is not currently top priority.

[Coron]

Is scotmany lynched yet?

[Coron]

Is scotmany lynched yet?

No, but q21 isn't. Care to help?

Why q21 and not Scotmany? Scotmany is much more scummy.

[Coron]

Is scotmany lynched yet?

No, but q21 isn't. Care to help?

Why q21 and not Scotmany? Scotmany is much more scummy.

Why?

I suspect it is because Scotmany is scum.

[Coron]

Is scotmany lynched yet?

No, but q21 isn't. Care to help?

Why q21 and not Scotmany? Scotmany is much more scummy.

Why?

I suspect it is because Scotmany is scum.

Why do you suspect this?

Because the way scotmany is acting is scummy.

[Coron]

Is scotmany lynched yet?

No, but q21 isn't. Care to help?

Why q21 and not Scotmany? Scotmany is much more scummy.

Why?

I suspect it is because Scotmany is scum.

Why do you suspect this?

Because the way scotmany is acting is scummy.

What specifically about his actions makes you think he is acting scummy?

His posts have been scummy.

[Coron]

If you've been following this game, and looking back at everyone's posts now and then, feel free to skip this part, otherwise, get to effin work.

Vote: Godfather, Encryptor

Vig is definitely the worst role we can give them, imo. I do not approve of giving the scum two extra kills. As of now I am undecided on whether the rb or the rolecop.

Eh, I'm leaning towards the roleblocker over rolecop after reading what others had to say.

Vote: q21

I don't really care if scum happened to try to get you lynched once. Can you show me a meaningful trend of scum targetting you more than usual? Are you certain that this amazing claim (scum, numerically fewer, are more likely to find you scummy than town) is actually true? Can you postulate some reason why this might be so? Why do the scum single you out so? Why would I know to target you?

Stop trying to justify bullshit OMGUS.

I already told you what you need to do. I'm not going to go and do the grunt work for you and point out actual instances and then on top of that, answer those questions that you've posed for me when I told you to meta-game me on your own.

It isn't sarc's job. If you are trying to use this as a defense, that scum always try to get you lynched, then you need to provide examples. You don't force others to do it.

And BTW, this

Meta-game me and look for instances where I've been accused of being scum while I was aligned on the side of the town. You'll see that a pretty good majority of those times the scum themselves were doing the accusing.

is probably one of the worst defenses ever. This is not a meta; everyone who has been town has probably been attacked by scum at least once. All I see with this is an OMGUS against sarc.

He's talking about your push for the vig, and then your sudden change of heart.

I would much rather prefer a q21 lynch, but I can't say that I will be displeased with an incog lynch.

Nope, pretty much along the same lines.

Gah, I hate when people do that. I can never tell if they are genuine or if its an appeal to emotion. Bleh...

I'm going on a short, two day vacation on sunday. Before that, I do plan on looking over and seeing if I am happy with my vote on q21 or not.

Its not really fighting, its them voting for me followed by ignoring my attempts to answer their reasons.

I know I'm not ignoring them, and I'm pretty sure JD and armlx is not as well. It's really just us not being pleased with your attempts to defend yourself.

I wasn't sure he was scummy before and now I have no clue what to think. I wasn't going to leave a vote on someone who was at what, L-2, in that kind of situation. You want to find that suspicious, go ahead.

So you were participating in a wagon on someone who you weren't even sure if they were scummy or not? Were you going to unvote even if Incog didn't have his little outburst? From what I gather, your reason for unvoting him was because of his outburst. So yeah, I am still happy with my vote on you.

However, I have found ashmite suspicious when rereading. I look forward to seeing what his replacement has to offer to the game.

So I will be away Sunday and Monday. I have a reception for college. I should be back Monday night.

Its not really fighting, its them voting for me followed by ignoring my attempts to answer their reasons.

I know I'm not ignoring them, and I'm pretty sure JD and armlx is not as well. It's really just us not being pleased with your attempts to defend yourself.

Then at least say that. The fact that no one even mentioned my attempts at defence makes it feel like they are being ignored. In what way are you not pleased?

It's all pure hindsight. We can choose to believe you that you read over pyp 2 and changed your mind, or we can choose not to. The fact that you simply mentioned that you were convinced when you changed your vote to the encryptor does not do you justice.

I am starting to come around to a mellow lynch, though q21 is still a good lynch. I am suspicious of others, but not to the extent of those two.

Yeah, how about you claim now. Its quite a simple task; really I see no reason why you would refuse to claim if you are town.

Um, since when would scum know who the supersaint is? They would know if there was one, but not who it is.

I really didn't find ek's comment scummy at all. I really just saw it as her being misinformed and confused. I don't understand your fos at all.

I think the two most scummiest in my eyes are dave and q21, at least for now. Possibly xtoxm as well (mostly due to ashmite's behavior).

Vote: q21

q21 is still mostly from my reasonings from yesterday. His wishy washyness on Incognito, "I'm not sure why some of you think he is evil," calls the bandwagon "decent" and then he proceeds to say that he wasn't sure if he was scummy or not, while still allowing the wagon to grow to l-2.

And today, it seems he doesn't even care if Dave is scum or not.

Vote Dave

for either being scum and finishing of a townie as quickly as possible. OR voting towards the end of a day without checking the current game status. Either deserves a vote.

So are you saying that in the second possibility he is town? Cause it sounds like that. Why would he deserve a vote for that?

I think Dave should hang. He's probably scum. If he's town he's not thinking straight and is no real help to us.

I just have a bad feeling about both of these posts. Very little substance to his attack; just doesn't feel right to me.

Is there any reason in particular that you're voting for scotmany12?

too... coasty, staying-in-the-background-y, like, want moar out of him

I have to say, this is very ironic coming from you. Funny guy...

No, not particularly (It's quite difficult for me to get a read on him). I was simply showing Incog that flame needing a prod doesn't clear him at all.

I'm not really content with the wagon on dave right now. His latest actions are something I would expect from a newb town.

q21, on the other hand, is still a very good lynch. He has yet to do anything to convince me otherwise.

Essentially Incog is in the scum pile

When did this happen? Yesterday you called his wagon "worse than cancer mixed with AIDS with a strong dose of Ebola." What made you change your mind to him being scum?

Scot, what are your opinions of Xtoxm and Incognito?

Indifferent on Incog; I'm unable to form a solid opinion of him at this time. Leaning towards scum with xtoxm.

FAILURE TO DO ANYTHING EVER

How exactly have I not doen anything...

By not taking a solid stand on anyone...

It doesn't work that way coron. You can't just vote for someone and then have other people do the work for you. Simply saying "go look at his posts" is not enough. If you find someone scummy, you have to build a case...you don't have others do it for you.

he's posted more semi-useful stuff

He has? Did I miss something?

Oh, and xtoxm should hammer

Well, I actually agreed that xtoxm is scummy. I just find q21 more scummy...

Why are you trying to tell me who to vote for?

The fact that they want you to hammer is based on the Super Saint possibility. Get the second scummiest guy to hammer the scummiest guy. That way if you lynching a SS you have a chance of hitting scum anyway.

Personally I'd like Elmo or Dave to hammer and you can lynch the other one tomorrow.

You claiming ss?

What about flameaxe armlx?

Well, I'm back. I'm exhausted right now so i only really skimmed through. I believe I will be able to read over what I missed tomorrow.

They are scummy because they are posted in a way scum would post.

[Coron]

..........

Coron, I'm convinced you are just being as useless as possible right now.

I don't see why I had to quote all of those posts for you when you can just use the search by name feature at the bottom of the page, seriously.

[Coron]

Why do you think any of those are scummy. Dissect a post, do some work, don't just be a donk.

The problem is this: there aren't like 6 tells that tell me a person is scum; I could easily see 50 scum tells on a person and not think they are scum. I could probably spend the time to go through each post and make detailed notes on which parts and in which way each was scummy, but you and most other people would think 90% of it was BS because they aren't very strong scum tells, and it would also take me a hour or two to do. Honestly, if you really want, I could pick a couple random posts to find some tells in, but it'll probably seem insubstantial. The best way to understand where I'm coming from as far as I can see is to read the posts while thinking about how scum would act, so that's what I suggest.

[Coron]

I see nothing inherently scummy about most of those posts. You fail

Perhaps it is you who contains the fail.

[Coron]

Yes, let's lynch the most pro-town player in the game rather than the guy who's been sitting at lynch-1 for a hundred goddamn years.

Um, I kinda figure the majority of the people in this game are all equally protown at a value of 1.

[Coron]

Do we have a person that would vote if it were not the hammer? If so I think we should chose from the people voting the person we'd lynch, because personally, I see no reason I or anyone else not on the bandwagon should have to put our tail on the line when we think he's town. Now you people who think he's scum should be very willing to hammer him because you think he's scum, and scum are not super saints. Take some responsibility for your decisions and if it's wrong, your tail should be on the line not mine.

[Coron]

Um, do people just not read my posts or is it really not worth commenting on that idea?

[Coron]

So, there are 4 possible reasons I can think of for Armlx to act as he did yesterday:
1) he's scum and knows that there is no supersaint
2) he's scum and is gambiting
3) he's town and actually believed he was scum
4) he was anything and was just tired of the day dragging on

I'm thinking probably 4 mixed with 3 or maybe 1 is most probable.

[Coron]

oooh another good one
5) he's the super-saint and assumes there is not another.

[Coron]

So, there are 4 possible reasons I can think of for Armlx to act as he did yesterday:
1) he's scum and knows that there is no supersaint
2) he's scum and is gambiting
3) he's town and actually believed he was scum
4) he was anything and was just tired of the day dragging on

I'm thinking probably 4 mixed with 3 or maybe 1 is most probable.

There would have been a 1/11 chance to hit a supersaint at worst--q21 even claimed vanilla, for what that's worth; we just chose to ignore that. Do you seriously think he'd refuse?

He did? I didn't choose to ignore it, I'm just completely oblivious aparently.

[Coron]

My suspicion of armlx has skyrocketed after reading these past 2 pages. Just sayin...

Mine hasn't really.

[Coron]

Am I the only one to think Coron is scummy?

I certainly don't

[Coron]

EBWODP: I'm not trying to be offensive Coron, but I definitely view Ether as a higher tier of player than you.

No offense taken, at this point it's probably true. The metagame right now has been throwing me off. Also, I don't know how good of a player Ether is right now, so for All I know that's not much of an insult.

Halfway through my readthrough. So for it seems like Incog and Coron are fairly obvious scumbuddies.

Nope.

Sarc and Armlx are totally pro-town.

Armlx is probably protown, I agree with that read, but I dunno about Sarc at this point.

[Coron]

I just did so, you had 27 posts on the 27th 3 posts on the 28th and 5 posts on the 29th.

[Coron]

I think both of those should be considered as they are very different groupings.

4 are the same; not that different, my suggestion is add count the people that were on it either time.

You still haven't explained why you flat-out lied to everyone. Seems silly to lie about something so easy to confirm or deny...

Um yeh I didn't lie

Yeah, couldn't check the site for a few days but made ~50 posts in other games.....

35 is about 50 I guess, rounding to the nearest 50.

[Coron]

I think the 2 lists should be combined to make the 4th wagon to analyze.

Way to post the same thing as I just posted 1 post later. Glad we agree.

[Coron]

Wow, what I posted was completely unreadable. Good work me.

[Coron]

Out of town for the next 3 days.

[Coron]

I really want to vote for Coron. I really didn't like to way he positioned himself yesterday.

vote: Coron

Hi.

[Coron]

I really want to vote for Coron. I really didn't like to way he positioned himself yesterday.

vote: Coron

Hi.

Way to be worthless. I now understand why ScumChat 5 second lynches you and you once went 5 games without seeing a D1.

Well, explain to me how I'm supposed to defend myself from such an ambiguous attack and I'll do it. As far as I can tell the most I can do is acknowledge it's existence.

[Coron]

820(non mod posts)/14.5(average of starting # of players and # we have now)
= 56.55

So yeah I'm slightly above the curve, but we need some serious prodding of some of the peeople further down the list.

Why the (huh) next to my name? Thought I had been more inactive than that?

Hm. Honestly I need to get a move on and reanalyze this game, because my old analysis is getting old, and updating as the thread continues is OK, but not good.

I'll try to get that done sometime tonight.

[Coron]

Your average counts dead players.

as half people, yes.

Coron: Moderately scummy for jumping on the 2 shot vig wagon. (possible scum).

Bullshit, re-examine how it happened, I did not jump on any bandwagon. I pretty much initiated the bandwagon if I remember correctly. Get your facts straight.


Also, I guess the going back over the thread will have to wait until tomorrow.

[Coron]

Could someone explain to me why everyone is dead set on an Incognito lynch?

[Coron]

Could someone explain to me why everyone is dead set on an Incognito lynch?

This applies to you too DGB.

[Coron]

Could someone explain to me why everyone is dead set on an Incognito lynch?

This applies to you too DGB.

No, it doesn't. I have stated that I rather fancy an armlx lynch at the moment. Or a Coron lynch. That would be great.

So why are you voting Incog?

Please explain.

[Coron]

Armlx has now survived to his eighteenth birthday.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Coron]

People aren't taking me seriously. ._.

Who's fault is that?

Armlx has now survived to his eighteenth birthday.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Perhaps I should explain why I found this hilarious.

This about reading this quote only take away the context of the mafia game. That's how I read it the first time I read it.

Who are you gonna vote?

GRAH! Man, I really need to set aside an hour or so to read this game.

[Coron]

I really need to do that re-reading don't I?

<.< >.>

[Coron]

Who's fault is that?

What are you insinuating?

Wait? This was a serious question? Really? You wanted that answered? I was mostly just joking around with you, and I figured you were doing the same.

Hey.

Anyone else liking his attack?

Anyone else not liking his attack?

I know you're out there.

Do you mean do I find his attacks valid? No. Do I find his attacks particularly scummy? Also no.

[Coron]

Guys, I reread Armlx and I REALLY don't buy the armlx wagon. Can we go somewhere more productive? Like maybe some of the people bandwagoning Armlx?

Oh hey, I remember who is a part of that group! Scotmany12. He'll be my next target of a reread, but for now I'm on to other games for a bit.

Armlx, quit posting so darn much, reading all your posts takes too long.

[Coron]

Uh. Farside, I didn't attack Armlx for requesting the List, and I'm not sure where you got the idea that I did. I'm attacking him because his list is so mechanical and contrived and stuffed with double-standards that it can't possibly be real.

Blah blah blah.

On Day 2, he even used his process of elimination to get out of looking for scumtells on people. (Filter his stances on Xtoxm for the best example of this--he insists that he doesn't like the Xtoxmwagon, that Xtoxm is on the bottom of his short "uncleared" list (at the same time he insisting that he doesn't actually have scumtells on anyone except q21), but he uses the town list position to avoid taking a definitive stance and later hops onto the wagon after Xtoxm already has a large wagon, and instantly switches to an Xtoxmscum perspective in his posts.)

For reference:

I'm currently pushing ahead for more things to happen. Right now things seem very stagnant, and I'm confident enough q21 is scum that if a Incog wagon is the comprimise I have to make to resolve his lynch that's fine.

As for who is scum, its members of this group

q21
ether
xtoxm
Farside
Jdodge

If these fail, Elmo and Sarc are my outside shots. Mainly based on elimination I find town, but meh.

Protown people don't change opinions? I know when I'm town I change opinions quite frequently sometimes. Also, you act like there are not town tells. It is a mafia tell to not have town tells, or at least you could look at it that way. I'm totally cool with him eliminating suspects based on town tells, I don't know why you're not.

I love how he cleared Scot for his realistic attack on q21 which he thought couldn't possibly be distancing, and hasn't cleared me for my behavior toward Xtoxm because he now says I did so many other scummy things. On Day 2, remember, he tried to tell me I hadn't done anything scummy at all; I just hadn't done anything pro-town.

It would help your credibility to quote the posts you refer to, I managed to find the post you referred to in the first one, please find this other one for me, TIA.

He's full of shit.

Excelent arguement.

[Coron]

Its less I find you and Dodge scummy then I find you lacking in being especially pro-town looking. Like I said, I eliminated those I think are town and went from there The list just happened to only be 5 people long.

Yeah.

Ether, the rest of the list isn't even in order.

Hm... if he'd done a deep examination of all of these people THERE WOULD BE AN ORDER, but he didn't. Later he did, wow, shocking.

It's not that you

hadn't done anything scummy

it was that he hadn't examined in depth for scumminess yet, at least that's how I read it.

I really don't understand where your attacks are coming from Ether. I'm not sure I exactly think you're scum, I just think you're wrong, and also using pretty silly attacks in this case.

[Coron]

That's avoidance. Disclaimers like "No, no, you're not scummy; just, everyone else is townie" are avoidant. A blatantly half-assed justification--you used it to stall while you could push the q21lynch, and you used the q21lynch to stall answering me.

what the hell? He doesn't have to justify that you might be scum, unless other evidence is given it's assumed. Seriously, quit being dumb.

[Coron]

He said you were "possibly scum" this is the default case of a person playing mafia, thus he does not need to back up his claim.

[Coron]

So... deadline's in six days. Anyone gonna hammer or what?

I'm not, that's for sure.

[Coron]

vote coron

Farside. Content. Go.

You're voting me because I actively tried to save an innocent person or what?

[Coron]

Coron: Yeah, pretty much.

Care to elaborate at all?

[Coron]

After doing a needed readthrough on all players my opinions look something like this:
1) Incognito - Likely town
2) Elmo - scummy
4) Sarcastro - ????? not particularly helpful
5) Gorrad (replacing Dave) - Dave's actions looked scummy but Gorrad I feel has more than made up for it.
8) Flameaxe - terrible lurker ????? in terms of scumminess
9) Coron - obv town
10) DrippingGoofball (replacing Marmalade) - Scummy
11) farside22 (replacing starkmoon) - seems townish
13) scotmany12 - Scummy
If I had to order people in terms of scumminess it'd probably go something like this:
DGB
Scot
Elmo
Flameaxe
Sarc
Gorrad
Farside
Incog
Coron
Although top three are similar, next two are similar, then next three are similar really.

[Coron]

The funny thing is Coron's most likely town matches scotmany's most likely scum rofl.

I'm reading. I should have something soon.

Yeah, I saw that after I constructed it. -_-

Also, hurry up with that something. I like things.

Also, wake up everyone else too.

[Coron]

After doing a needed readthrough on all players

my opinions look something like this:
1) Incognito - Likely town
2) Elmo - scummy
4) Sarcastro - ????? not particularly helpful
5) Gorrad (replacing Dave) - Dave's actions looked scummy but Gorrad I feel has more than made up for it.
8) Flameaxe - terrible lurker ????? in terms of scumminess
9) Coron - obv town
10) DrippingGoofball (replacing Marmalade) - Scummy
11) farside22 (replacing starkmoon) - seems townish
13) scotmany12 - Scummy
If I had to order people in terms of scumminess it'd probably go something like this:
DGB
Scot
Elmo
Flameaxe
Sarc
Gorrad
Farside
Incog
Coron
Although top three are similar, next two are similar, then next three are similar really.

DGB, see bolded part, I've been planning to do a reread for a while, I did not get around to it yesterday unfortunately, I only managed to do a reread on Armlx, as that was the bandwagon of the time. I believe you'll find this noted in my posts yesterday.

[Coron]

I expect scum would tend to chicken out of voting more than townies. Not always. But you, yes. I'd expect you to chicken out of voting. And yet suddenly now you have opinions. Intriguing.

It's not as though I was like, "oh I'll just not vote" I was like "Oh, he is totally not scum guys". Which is actually an opinion. Also, rereads do tend to help, I really don't know where you're going here.

[Coron]

vote: Coron

Hello! How are you?

[Coron]

Just another day to contribute absolutely nothing to this game.

[Coron]

so, constructing a list in order as far as I can tell for Sarc, please correct me as I am probably incorrect:
DGB
Elmo
Flameaxe(not really sure on the placement of this one)
Incognito
Scot
Farside(farside and Gorrad are the same according to you, so order here is arbitrary)
Gorrad
Coron
Sarc

[Coron]

The funny thing is Coron's most likely town matches scotmany's most likely scum rofl.

I'm reading.

I should have something soon.

I have not recieved a thing. I am unhappy about this.

[Coron]

Flameaxe has not posted anything of use this game day, I'm considering voting him for this sole reason if he doesn't speak up more. If he's scum then we can't let him slip by, if he's town then we need his input in order to win this.

Scotmany12 has not posted since the 4th, he may need to be considered for prodding.

I am triple posting because you guys are not posting enough. Get on it.

[Coron]

scotmany12 is on vacation until tomorrow. I'll prod him if he doesn't post tomorrow.

Oh, my bad, I forgot about that, no worries, you can give him a couple days after he gets back.

But the rest of you. You need to post more.

[Coron]

Posts by players:
Coron-84
Incog- 75
Scotmany- 68
Sarcastro- 52
Gorrad/dave - 50
Farside/Starkmoon -47
Elmo-43
Flameaxe- 39
DGB/Marmalade- 36

Just for reference, Armlx had over twice the number of posts of anyone who is now left. I can understand why people who replaced in would fall towards the bottom of the list, but Elmo and Flameaxe's lack of activity is unexcuseable, although my feel is that elmo has been participating more of late and Flameaxe is a worthless peice of lard.

This game as a whole has shown a detestable amount of letting lurkers live and killing those who posted a lot and showed opinions. This is not a good thing.

[Coron]

Barring distancing is stupid. When a scum is dying they often distance.

[Coron]

Let's lynch Sarcastro. I have a sneaking suspicion that he's the Encryptor.

why?

[Coron]

Let's lynch Sarcastro. I have a sneaking suspicion that he's the Encryptor.

why?

Please tell us who you think is scum. TIA.

[Coron]

Please look at my vote, thank you.

That is the only opinion you have about anyone?

[Coron]

DGB - Has not posted in a while, the materialization of the bandwagon by two separate people after 2 people posted lists of who they think is scummy with DGB at the top(2 people in fact that I have listed as me 2nd and 3rd scummiest), so either this is really huge bussing or DGB is town or something. This drives down the scumminess here significantly. DGB needs to post asap. Still very scummy but slightly less.
Scot - Recently posted a reasonable case on DGB, but it seemed oportunistic between those it seemed like a null tell until I realized that the last post before that had claimed 3 people that I had listed as the least scummy as the most likely to be scum, then he comes back and attacks DGB(who I was suspicious of), I do allow for town players changing their minds, but this is a mild scum tell. Scot is back at the top of my scumminess list now.
Elmo - Vote on DGB also seemed pretty oportunistic, some of his recent comments have been good, but I want him to give original reasons for his vote on DGB. I am not really suspicious of his involvement going way up at the end, as I tend to do that a lot as town.
Flameaxe - still useless, I'm getting really frustrated by this. I would not be opposed to his lynch if he doesn't speak up more.
Sarc - Don't have much new to say about him, perhaps just a hair more townish than before
Gorrad - Faded to the background a bit, I find this more scummy than popping up out of no where. Slightly more scummy, but still not all that scummy.
Farside - Not much new here
Incog - just not having any scummy vibes on him recently. Well, maybe a bit, but he's still seeming pretty town to me
Coron - This dude is pretty freaking awesome.

Also, I remembered something. While I didn't vote Xtoxm, I did consider it, and I even did the research of how many posts he made between his posts in this game, so that people that wanted to see how rediculous his claims were didn't have to do the research themselves.

So yeah, there's some new info, go nuts.

[Coron]

DGB - Has not posted in a while, the materialization of the bandwagon by two separate people after 2 people posted lists of who they think is scummy with DGB at the top(2 people in fact that I have listed as me 2nd and 3rd scummiest), so either this is really huge bussing or DGB is town or something. This drives down the scumminess here significantly. DGB needs to post asap. Still very scummy but slightly less.

Coron, can you explain this? Why is her jump on a bandwagon of a person you think is town (me) after she failed to provide any reasoning for why she thinks I'm scum either bussing or a town action especially after a few people have listed her as scummy? Does it not look like she's simply trying to protect herself from the lynch therefore making her appear even

more

scummy?

I think you're misreading. DGB is less scummy because scummy people are making oportunistic votes on DGB.

[Coron]

on mayday.

Vote: Flameaxe

Since I voted Flameaxe several things have happened, he's posted more semi-useful stuff, and has not voted himself again(which was my main problem to begin with). And also I found a scummier person. While I would still be fine with a Flameaxe lynch, it is not currently top priority.

He posted some semi-useful stuff so I backed off my vote on the 13th and made this post on the 14th of may

After doing a needed readthrough on all players my opinions look something like this:
1) Incognito - Likely town
2) Elmo - scummy
4) Sarcastro - ????? not particularly helpful
5) Gorrad (replacing Dave) - Dave's actions looked scummy but Gorrad I feel has more than made up for it.
8) Flameaxe - terrible lurker ????? in terms of scumminess
9) Coron - obv town
10) DrippingGoofball (replacing Marmalade) - Scummy
11) farside22 (replacing starkmoon) - seems townish
13) scotmany12 - Scummy
If I had to order people in terms of scumminess it'd probably go something like this:
DGB
Scot
Elmo
Flameaxe
Sarc
Gorrad
Farside
Incog
Coron
Although top three are similar, next two are similar, then next three are similar really.

on July 5th I reread the thread and saw that Flameaxe was being useless again, he's listed as the 4th scummiest out of 9, but that's just scummiest not necisarily how much I think they need to get bandwagoned/voted.

Just another day to contribute absolutely nothing to this game.

July 10th, showing my frustration at Flameaxe's lack of doing anything useful.

Flameaxe has not posted anything of use this game day, I'm considering voting him for this sole reason if he doesn't speak up more. If he's scum then we can't let him slip by, if he's town then we need his input in order to win this.

on July 11th I consider voting him.

Just for reference, Armlx had over twice the number of posts of anyone who is now left. I can understand why people who replaced in would fall towards the bottom of the list, but Elmo and Flameaxe's lack of activity is unexcuseable, although my feel is that elmo has been participating more of late and Flameaxe is a worthless peice of lard.

This game as a whole has shown a detestable amount of letting lurkers live and killing those who posted a lot and showed opinions. This is not a good thing.

July 12th I think this post pretty much explains itself.

Let's lynch Sarcastro. I have a sneaking suspicion that he's the Encryptor.

why?

Please tell us who you think is scum. TIA.

Please look at my vote, thank you.

That is the only opinion you have about anyone?

On the 13th, 2 posts trying to get him to participate more.

On the 16th I made the post you referenced to.

This has not come out of no where.

My Gorrad line said that I saw an action from Gorrad that was mildly scummy, then a compared it to an action I don't find very scummy, saying it was slightly more scummy, then I said intended to say, but I wasn't very clear, that my read on Gorrad was that he wasn't all that scummy.

Some of that is my fault some of that is you having bad reading, some of it is ducks.

[Coron]

Scot - Recently posted a reasonable case on DGB, but it seemed oportunistic between those it seemed like a null tell until I realized that the last post before that had claimed 3 people that I had listed as the least scummy as the most likely to be scum, then he comes back and attacks DGB(who I was suspicious of), I do allow for town players changing their minds, but this is a mild scum tell. Scot is back at the top of my scumminess list now.

You call my vote both reasonable and opportunistic? First, stop fence sitting. Secondly, How is my vote opportunistic? I actually made a case, and there was only one other person voting for DGB, elmo. I fail to see how this is opportunistic. And when I listed you, incog, and farside, I totally forgot about DGB at that time. Those three names were just off the top of my head. After looking into this day, I remembered DGB, reread her, and decided that she was the scummiest.[/mech]

I said your case seemed reasonable, I still think so, but the timing of your presentation of this case and vote seemed oportunistic. While DGB only had 1 vote, both Sarcastro and I had listed DGB as our top/one of our top suspects.

What do you now think of me incog and farside, just for the record.

[Coron]

That last post should end in a ? not a .

[Coron]

At the time I made the case, I didn't even remember that both you are sarc thought dgb as scummy. Neither of you were voting for her. Whatever you say, my vote was not opportunistic.

here's the actualy content of the first paragraph, firstly, it is impossible to prove you don't remember that sarc and I found DGB scummy, and I see no real reason to believe it. I'll admit it certainly is one possibility. The fact that neither of us were voting her is not really important here. It is a possibility that you vote was not opportunistic, but it certainly

seemed

oportunistic

Even though you agree with m reasons,

I said they were reasonable, not that I agreed with them. Those are not really my reasons for voting DGB, but at least they are not total bs.

you still feel the need to make up a reason for why I am scum (at least you gave a reason this time, as bad as i was) for god knows why.

here you go in to blah blah blah Coron sucks I feel a need to claim that he is just making shit up and that his reasons were bad.

You are still quite scummy coron. You have constantly called me scummy while not providing any case,

not entirely true, but low explanation votes are often an intentional thing on my part.

have made quite a few amount of badvotes (Mr. I vote, flame vote on day 2,) and overall you just haven't really been helpful.

So, yeah, I voted a town member in the semi-random day 1 stage and a person we don't know if is town or scum(Flame) day 2, and you are claiming I have a horrible voting record. I stand by my Flame vote on day 2 as perfectly reasonable, as he has contributed so little since then, that it may have been better if we had eliminated him early.

However, there is part of my gut that is screaming to me that you are town and I should just leave you alone. Not sure what to think of you.

Listen to your gut.

[Coron]

No, Elmo, there is a difference between what you do and what I do. I vote people I find *suspicious* without reasons sometimes in order to get reactions, not people I don't. Not that I really have a problem with that in particular, but it's not something I do.

My suspicion of elmo has gone down recently.

FoS: DGB and Scotmany

I intend to do a full reread on both players then place my vote.

[Coron]

You want to, I don't know, actually make a case against me coron? You constantly calling me scum with out any substance is really getting annoying.

Sorry, I guess I should make as much of a case that you're scummy as you did with me.

Oh wait. The reasons I've provided, though fairly minimal are already better than what you've provided! That's right, I remember now!

Also, reviewing your posts from yesterday, you appear to have questioned both DGB and Armlx finding me scummy recently, yet today, you come out of no where and do the same thing. Odd, hypocritical and scummy. There is another example of something you've done that has struck me as a little weird, I seem to only be scummy when it suits you. If you can attack DGB or armlx by defending me then I'm town, but if attacking me will defend you or help lynch me it seems I'm scum. Hm. Odd, that.

Also, what you have cited as my "scummy actions" happened largely at or before day 2, but, you didn't even cite me as scummy then, but you couldn't cut armlx the tiniest break to change his mind. Hm.

This is what I find in a couple minutes of looking at and thinking about your posts, I could probably with more analysis come up with a ton more, but I mostly keep stuff to myself unless it's really good, because then I can see who notices the stuff like a townie would(as opposed to how the scum would).

[Coron]

I am posting this in all of my games and V/LA, as well as sending it to all the mods of games I am involved in. I will be away from Saturday, July 5th to Sunday, July 13th. As of now, I expect to have absolutely no internet access. While I hope that I am not, I will fully understand if I am replaced. My apologies to all that are involved.

Um, I'm really unsure of what to think about people. Just off the top of my head, I would say my top three as of now are farside, incog, and coron. I think I just need to take time and really look into this game. Unfortunately I won't have time for that until I return.

Did you post this while high, hung over and sleep deprived or something? This whole post just doesn't fit with EVERYTHING else you've said all game. Firstly, look at incog, who've you've defended for basically the entire game. I mean what? Suddenly he's in your top 3. Me who've you'd hardly commented on, and jumped all over Armlx for for finding scummy, and farside, which I guess is the odd one out, who you'd barely talked about but was on the scummy side of things acording to you before hand.

I mean, I know you said you were unsure, but this seems totally inconsistant with EVERYTHING else.

[Coron]

You want to, I don't know, actually make a case against me coron? You constantly calling me scum with out any substance is really getting annoying.

Sorry, I guess I should make as much of a case that you're scummy as you did with me.

Oh wait. The reasons I've provided, though fairly minimal are already better than what you've provided! That's right, I remember now!

Also, reviewing your posts from yesterday, you appear to have questioned both DGB and Armlx finding me scummy recently, yet today, you come out of no where and do the same thing. Odd, hypocritical and scummy. There is another example of something you've done that has struck me as a little weird, I seem to only be scummy when it suits you. If you can attack DGB or armlx by defending me then I'm town, but if attacking me will defend you or help lynch me it seems I'm scum. Hm. Odd, that.

Also, what you have cited as my "scummy actions" happened largely at or before day 2, but, you didn't even cite me as scummy then, but you couldn't cut armlx the tiniest break to change his mind. Hm.

This is what I find in a couple minutes of looking at and thinking about your posts, I could probably with more analysis come up with a ton more, but I mostly keep stuff to myself unless it's really good, because then I can see who notices the stuff like a townie would(as opposed to how the scum would).

After rereading this post I feel the need to go back and correct several errors, I got a bit caught up in the whole writing the post thing and said some odd things.
I'm not sure I'm in any danger of lynch right now so I guess not "help lynch me" I have no real basis for that.

The next paragraph you could look at as very similar to your arguement against armlx yesterday it turns out(purely unintentionally, I did a full reread on both DGB and scot after I finished and noticed that), but the fact that it's on the *same* player no less makes me more skeptical.

also:

Vote: DGB

I'm not intimately familiar with her playstyle, but I know she is a bandwagoner, but I feel that the bandwagoning done in this game is a bit much even for her.

PS. Damn it's getting late, I almost ran bit and much together with all of bit and the last 2 letters of much. -_-

[Coron]

One very last thing. Is this "testing out other people's scumdar" thing something that is fairly common to DGB?

[Coron]

also:

Vote: DGB

I'm not intimately familiar with her playstyle, but I know she is a bandwagoner, but I feel that the bandwagoning done in this game is a bit much even for her.

Eh? Weren't you just attacking scotmany12 calling him opportunistic for voting DGB at a time that you and Sarc mentioned that you found her scummy? Why are you so willing to place her at L-1 so quickly now?

"So quickly"? I've been considering placing my vote on DGB since before scot placed his. His and Elmo's seeming oportunism gave me pause which is why it took this long for me to place my vote.

[Coron]

oop forgot to append this to the end of that

You want to, I don't know, actually make a case against me coron? You constantly calling me scum with out any substance is really getting annoying.

Sorry, I guess I should make as much of a case that you're scummy as you did with me.

Oh wait. The reasons I've provided, though fairly minimal are already better than what you've provided! That's right, I remember now!

Also, reviewing your posts from yesterday, you appear to have questioned both DGB and Armlx finding me scummy recently, yet today, you come out of no where and do the same thing. Odd, hypocritical and scummy. There is another example of something you've done that has struck me as a little weird, I seem to only be scummy when it suits you. If you can attack DGB or armlx by defending me then I'm town, but if attacking me will defend you or help lynch me it seems I'm scum. Hm. Odd, that.

It's not hypocritical, odd, or scummy at all. The only thing I really defended you on was your vote for vig, which I do not find scummy. I never defended you in regards to DGB. I simply asked her to explain her vote on you.

right, after review, you're correct, no never really defended me against DGB, but the question does imply non-understanding. You've haven't give much reason for voting me other than citing a couple of "bad votes", which doesn't really seem to hold much water, and also my low content vote on you, which is not really a scum tell. So yeah, that might not be your reason for finding me suspicious, but who knows what is.

Also, what you have cited as my "scummy actions" happened largely at or before day 2, but, you didn't even cite me as scummy then, but you couldn't cut armlx the tiniest break to change his mind. Hm.

Besides for the person I am voting for, I don't usually voice my suspicions that much. That is all I have to say about no really calling you scummy until now.

You probably ought to, it helps the town point out constistancies and inconstistancies. I just went from the best information I could find on me(questioning people voting me and defending me against armlx), it seemed to me that these things pointed to you thinking I was town.

I am posting this in all of my games and V/LA, as well as sending it to all the mods of games I am involved in. I will be away from Saturday, July 5th to Sunday, July 13th. As of now, I expect to have absolutely no internet access. While I hope that I am not, I will fully understand if I am replaced. My apologies to all that are involved.

Um, I'm really unsure of what to think about people. Just off the top of my head, I would say my top three as of now are farside, incog, and coron. I think I just need to take time and really look into this game. Unfortunately I won't have time for that until I return.

Did you post this while high, hung over and sleep deprived or something? This whole post just doesn't fit with EVERYTHING else you've said all game. Firstly, look at incog, who've you've defended for basically the entire game. I mean what? Suddenly he's in your top 3. Me who've you'd hardly commented on, and jumped all over Armlx for for finding scummy, and farside, which I guess is the odd one out, who you'd barely talked about but was on the scummy side of things acording to you before hand.

I mean, I know you said you were unsure, but this seems totally inconsistant with EVERYTHING else.

I don't recall defending incog. But you are right, I did say I did not consider him scum at one point. But with you and farside. First off, you are attacking me for finding DGB scummy, who you also find scum. When I attacked armlx, I was simply unsatisfied with his reasons on why he thought you were scum. I had a brief interaction with farside yesterday, and in reality, anyone I put down you could have said the same thing about. Besides the people I am voting for, I do not voice my suspicions much. So if I put down gorrad and sarc in place of you and farside, you can be saying the same thing. As I said, that was all of the top of my head, which is why I did not follow it and instead voted for DGB.

Not only did you say you did not consider him scum, you also MULTIPLE TIMES called his bandwagon bad, if I recall correctly. I'm not attacking you for finding DGB scummy, I'm mostly attacking you for what I see as opportunism, with your opinions on me, DGB, and others. Also, I'd like to note I don't find your calling out over Farside, although I think he's town, which I guess is a mark against you, it's not really inconsistant like the other 2 people you posted there. I don't feel like doing the research on gorrad and sarc to find your interactions with them.

[Coron]

also:

Vote: DGB

I'm not intimately familiar with her playstyle, but I know she is a bandwagoner, but I feel that the bandwagoning done in this game is a bit much even for her.

Eh? Weren't you just attacking scotmany12 calling him opportunistic for voting DGB at a time that you and Sarc mentioned that you found her scummy? Why are you so willing to place her at L-1 so quickly now?

"So quickly"? I've been considering placing my vote on DGB since before scot placed his. His and Elmo's seeming oportunism gave me pause which is why it took this long for me to place my vote.

I realize that, but I would've thought their "opportunism" would have required more probing from you to convince yourself that it wasn't what you thought it was rather than just three day's worth and then L-1. Do you still think they are being opportunistic?

It's been 3 days that I've devoted a lot of time to this game though, and gotten several responses from each of the parties that could be guilty; it's been 42 posts since I posted my original analysis of the situation, so things have been developing.

There is still a possibility that they were opportunistic votes, either for a townie or trying to clear themselves by being early on their scumpartner's bandwagon. After rereading, I find the first slightly less and the secondly slightly more possible for Scot(I hadn't really thought about the 2nd initially), and both relatively unlikely for Elmo after prodding him. My suspicions for Elmo have been steadily waning recently.

[Coron]

You know, I guess I'll ask for a DGB claim and/or say anything you might to defend yourself. Claiming seems a bit irrelevent, but meh, why not.

-Coron

[Coron]

You want to, I don't know, actually make a case against me coron? You constantly calling me scum with out any substance is really getting annoying.

Sorry, I guess I should make as much of a case that you're scummy as you did with me.

Oh wait. The reasons I've provided, though fairly minimal are already better than what you've provided! That's right, I remember now!

Also, reviewing your posts from yesterday, you appear to have questioned both DGB and Armlx finding me scummy recently, yet today, you come out of no where and do the same thing. Odd, hypocritical and scummy. There is another example of something you've done that has struck me as a little weird, I seem to only be scummy when it suits you. If you can attack DGB or armlx by defending me then I'm town, but if attacking me will defend you or help lynch me it seems I'm scum. Hm. Odd, that.

It's not hypocritical, odd, or scummy at all. The only thing I really defended you on was your vote for vig, which I do not find scummy. I never defended you in regards to DGB. I simply asked her to explain her vote on you.

right, after review, you're correct, no never really defended me against DGB, but the question does imply non-understanding. You've haven't give much reason for voting me other than citing a couple of "bad votes", which doesn't really seem to hold much water, and also my low content vote on you, which is not really a scum tell. So yeah, that might not be your reason for finding me suspicious, but who knows what is.

It's a good thing I'm voting for you then. Wait...No your vote on me was scummy. You voted for me, and when asked why, all you did was quote al of my posts instead of explaining your vote. That's scummy. You reason for voting for flameaxe was, and I quote "People who act like retards earn my vote for being detrimental to town." There is no where in that sentence where you even express that you might find flameaxe scummy. It was a bad vote, and scummy in my eyes. And up until today, I have found you quite unhelpful as a whole.

No, that's not scummy, it really does sort of sound like the smart ass kind of thing I would do regardless of alignment. Also, yes, people who are detrimental to town earn my vote. Often times the people most detrimental to town are the mafias killing town, but sometimes the utter unhelpfulness of a player, that doesn't seem particularly town or scum makes him on average the most detrimental player to town(especially when you have no strong reads). I at that point did not find him particularly scummy or unscummy.

Also, what you have cited as my "scummy actions" happened largely at or before day 2, but, you didn't even cite me as scummy then, but you couldn't cut armlx the tiniest break to change his mind. Hm.

Besides for the person I am voting for, I don't usually voice my suspicions that much. That is all I have to say about no really calling you scummy until now.

You probably ought to, it helps the town point out constistancies and inconstistancies. I just went from the best information I could find on me(questioning people voting me and defending me against armlx), it seemed to me that these things pointed to you thinking I was town.

That's the problem with assuming things. I never once said I found you town. I already explained that I thought the reasons for why armlx attacked you were bs which is why I attacked him. I only really defended you when he tried to use the two vig thing against you, and I still woul because I don't find that scummy. That is no inclination, however, that I think you are town.

If people are finding me scummy and you are also finding me scummy it seems like you should be cool with that, at least more than you were, even if the reasons weren't great.

I am posting this in all of my games and V/LA, as well as sending it to all the mods of games I am involved in. I will be away from Saturday, July 5th to Sunday, July 13th. As of now, I expect to have absolutely no internet access. While I hope that I am not, I will fully understand if I am replaced. My apologies to all that are involved.

Um, I'm really unsure of what to think about people. Just off the top of my head, I would say my top three as of now are farside, incog, and coron. I think I just need to take time and really look into this game. Unfortunately I won't have time for that until I return.

Did you post this while high, hung over and sleep deprived or something? This whole post just doesn't fit with EVERYTHING else you've said all game. Firstly, look at incog, who've you've defended for basically the entire game. I mean what? Suddenly he's in your top 3. Me who've you'd hardly commented on, and jumped all over Armlx for for finding scummy, and farside, which I guess is the odd one out, who you'd barely talked about but was on the scummy side of things acording to you before hand.

I mean, I know you said you were unsure, but this seems totally inconsistant with EVERYTHING else.

I don't recall defending incog. But you are right, I did say I did not consider him scum at one point. But with you and farside. First off, you are attacking me for finding DGB scummy, who you also find scum. When I attacked armlx, I was simply unsatisfied with his reasons on why he thought you were scum. I had a brief interaction with farside yesterday, and in reality, anyone I put down you could have said the same thing about. Besides the people I am voting for, I do not voice my suspicions much. So if I put down gorrad and sarc in place of you and farside, you can be saying the same thing. As I said, that was all of the top of my head, which is why I did not follow it and instead voted for DGB.

Not only did you say you did not consider him scum, you also MULTIPLE TIMES called his bandwagon bad, if I recall correctly. I'm not attacking you for finding DGB scummy, I'm mostly attacking you for what I see as opportunism, with your opinions on me, DGB, and others. Also, I'd like to note I don't find your calling out over Farside, although I think he's town, which I guess is a mark against you, it's not really inconsistant like the other 2 people you posted there. I don't feel like doing the research on gorrad and sarc to find your interactions with them.

It was a bad wagon. I stand by that. My reasons to suspecting him boil down to his interaction with xtoxm. If I'm not mistaken, Ether also called his wagon bad, but found him far more suspicious than I do. I don't remember you ever attacking her for that. JD also called the wagon bad, but said that he though incog was scum. Seriously, I'm not the only one who has done that. And I thought I was only opportunistic towards DGB. This is the first time you mentioned that I have been opportunistic towards you and others.

I actually agree that it was a bad bandwagon. I honestly don't remember other people calling his bandwagon bad multiple times, then saying he's probably town and completely switching positions this late in the game. If you could quote me a couple I'd appreciate it. For some reason you seem to think the only thing that can indicate your position on a person is actually saying "I find X to be such and such." every action you have reflects how you see the players in the game.

You want to, I don't know, actually make a case against me coron? You constantly calling me scum with out any substance is really getting annoying.

Sorry, I guess I should make as much of a case that you're scummy as you did with me.

Oh wait. The reasons I've provided, though fairly minimal are already better than what you've provided! That's right, I remember now!

Also, reviewing your posts from yesterday, you appear to have questioned both DGB and Armlx finding me scummy recently, yet today, you come out of no where and do the same thing. Odd, hypocritical and scummy. There is another example of something you've done that has struck me as a little weird, I seem to only be scummy when it suits you. If you can attack DGB or armlx by defending me then I'm town, but if attacking me will defend you or help lynch me it seems I'm scum. Hm. Odd, that.

It's not hypocritical, odd, or scummy at all. The only thing I really defended you on was your vote for vig, which I do not find scummy. I never defended you in regards to DGB. I simply asked her to explain her vote on you.

right, after review, you're correct, no never really defended me against DGB, but the question does imply non-understanding. You've haven't give much reason for voting me other than citing a couple of "bad votes", which doesn't really seem to hold much water, and also my low content vote on you, which is not really a scum tell. So yeah, that might not be your reason for finding me suspicious, but who knows what is.

It's a good thing I'm voting for you then. Wait...No your vote on me was scummy. You voted for me, and when asked why, all you did was quote al of my posts instead of explaining your vote. That's scummy. You reason for voting for flameaxe was, and I quote "People who act like retards earn my vote for being detrimental to town." There is no where in that sentence where you even express that you might find flameaxe scummy. It was a bad vote, and scummy in my eyes. And up until today, I have found you quite unhelpful as a whole.

Add to this your whole avoidance of the xtoxm wagon. You didn't even mention anything about him until he was caught in a lie, and even then ou still did not give an opinion.

Yup, I'll admit, I didn't vote on the xtoxm wagon. As I said before I considered it, but felt like I needed to do more reading first. I sometimes think I'm too cautious with my vote, but it's also helpful sometimes.

Coron is really making me want to lynch Scot right now, but it looks like DGB is today's lynch. I'm willing to hammer, though I admit I've been having second thoughts about her. Then again, I've been having second thoughts about everyone. This has really not been my best game scum-hunting-wise.

I feel the same way Sarc. Everyone in this game feels at least a little bit weird in some way so it's hard to tell who is scum.

Flameaxe, you're pathetic. It's one thing to have problems with lurking - I admit that I'm not the most consistent player in the world - but consistently and consciously avoided any and all contribution is just too much. It's not a valid playstyle, and if you don't start playing properly we'll have no choice but to lynch you. Okay? Start playing properly

now

.

I'm not the only one talking about lynching Flameaxe for being consistantly unuseful, now am I?

Quote nesting is going too far, gonna have to purge some layers before doing more.

[Coron]

I really didn't find ek's comment scummy at all. I really just saw it as her being misinformed and confused. I don't understand your fos at all.

I think the two most scummiest in my eyes are dave and q21, at least for now. Possibly xtoxm as well (mostly due to ashmite's behavior).

Scot, what are your opinions of Xtoxm and Incognito?

Indifferent on Incog; I'm unable to form a solid opinion of him at this time. Leaning towards scum with xtoxm.

Oh, and xtoxm should hammer

Well, I actually agreed that xtoxm is scummy. I just find q21 more scummy...

Vote: Xtoxm

I don't believe that for a second xtoxm. Your last post in this thread was on Monday. Between that post and your most recent one here, you have made a total of 65 posts (give or take a few). And you haven't been able to check the site that much? Bullshit. You just flat out lied to everyone involved in this game.

various calls for people to vote fot xtoxm after this.

I need to go take a look at the game context of a couple of these quotes, then I'll get back to you on finer details, but now I'm off to a party, back later.

[Coron]

Hi, guys, you know those big winds in the midwest recently? Yeah, that hit the area around me. Hard. I have been without power since monday, and almost had a tree fall on me while I was sleeping(only like 4 or 5 feet away), luckily our house was spared, and am posting this while running the internet off a generator, so I don't know when I will have the oportunity to do any real work on any of my games.

[Coron]

Well since I have a few minutes I'll respond to some stuff in this game.

Final did my job reading through this.

Icogn said:

Coron, in post 1170, wrote:
also:
Vote: DGB
I'm not intimately familiar with her playstyle, but I know she is a bandwagoner, but I feel that the bandwagoning done in this game is a bit much even for her.

Eh? Weren't you just attacking scotmany12 calling him opportunistic for voting DGB at a time that you and Sarc mentioned that you found her scummy? Why are you so willing to place her at L-1 so quickly now?

I didn't get this either. Why not hold strong if you feel someone is scummy and yet for for someone else. Oh wait DGB has the biggest wagon at the time that's right.

Are you only capable of being suspicous of one person? I'm not, that's for sure.

It's a good thing I'm voting for you then. Wait...No your vote on me was scummy. You voted for me, and when asked why, all you did was quote al of my posts instead of explaining your vote. That's scummy. You reason for voting for flameaxe was, and I quote "People who act like retards earn my vote for being detrimental to town." There is no where in that sentence where you even express that you might find flameaxe scummy. It was a bad vote, and scummy in my eyes. And up until today, I have found you quite unhelpful as a whole.

I looked at Coron's comment along after seeing the first part of this and it does indeed look as though for most of the game Coron just was vote hoping around and then pushed for Scot's wagon and just pointed to a bunch of quotes and called it scummy.

I'll admit, I change votes a lot early in games, but it's not like I spend much time bandwagoning, it's just that when there isn't much info, the person I find scumiest changes often. I wouldn't say I vote hopped for most of this game though.
oh, and to get some perspective on vote hopping a lot, I went through and checked how many different people a few people have voted for:
Coron- 6 people
Scot- 4 people
DGB- 6 people
Elmo- 5 people
None of these includes votes by the replacees. So sure, I've voted a few people, but there's no problem with that. Oh, I and I would like to inform you that those weren't some of his posts, that was every single Scot quote to that point.

Now reading back I see that Coron didn't even look at the xtoxm wagon and then question Armlx's hammer, but later decides Arlmx is town. Why did it take a reread to figure this out?

Xtoxm I was considering voting for, I can't prove it, but I did get the raw numbers for his posts while he was "unavailable". And about armlx, I looked at some possibilities as to why he would have been willing to hammer, it's not like I said I found him particularly scummy for it. I did change my opinion on Armlx a little, but I never found him that scummy overall. Oh, and I didn't do a reread in that time between when I questioned that and when I said I found armlx town as far as I can remember.

[Coron]

@Coron no it wasn't that you cant have 2 suspicions. I think that your attitude about one person and voting another was off.

my suspicions of Scot went down slightly through that whole conversation, but that doesn't mean I don't think my original reads were any less valid, or even that he's not near the top of my scummy list. Also, I'd prefer if you pointed out the specific things you agree with scot about, since you were sort of vague about it.

As for DGB she too stayed away from the xtoxm wagon I questioned it yesterday and today she has offered nothing except hey I think these people are town.

vote: DBG

What she offered is 3 people she thought were town, 1 she thought was scum, 1 she can't get a read on, that comment on me, and 2 people she didn't even comment on, incog and gorrad.

[Coron]

@Coron no it wasn't that you cant have 2 suspicions. I think that your attitude about one person and voting another was off.

my suspicions of Scot went down slightly through that whole conversation, but that doesn't mean I don't think my original reads were any less valid, or even that he's not near the top of my scummy list. Also, I'd prefer if you pointed out the specific things you agree with scot about, since you were sort of vague about it.

As for DGB she too stayed away from the xtoxm wagon I questioned it yesterday and today she has offered nothing except hey I think these people are town.

vote: DBG

What she offered is 3 people she thought were town, 1 she thought was scum, 1 she can't get a read on, that comment on me, and 2 people she didn't even comment on, incog and gorrad.

It wasn't anything in her statement is my point. I can say look person X is town, but really there is nothing there that backs that statement up.

Nice job ignoring the part you actually needed to respond to. I also am not a strong believer in exhaustively backing up one's opinions all the time, though sometimes it's worth doing a small sample if pressed.

[Coron]

On this page I'm getting really bad vibes about farside. She unvoted me when my wagon slowed down, but the second Incognito votes me, BANG! She revotes me.

Um? Farside unvoted and then revoted with no voting inbetween.

It looks like my lynch is inevitable, but I'm fine with it if you promise to lynch farside tomorrow. Don't even let her make one post. No discussion. Just lynch her.

Not happening, sorry. If you're scum I will completely disregard this as infinately wifomable(and I trust that you are a good enough player to more or less randomize whether it is a scumbag or a townie), and if your town I will do another read of farside, perhaps slightly more in depth to check to see how scummy he is. It turns out, you're no better informed than I am, so I'm not gonna trust your beliefs over mine.

[Coron]

I leave tomorrow, jackass.

Then post something with content today.

Sincerely,
Coron.

[Coron]

He's gone right now you know, if you hurry up you could still replace him.

[Coron]

And you know, if no one unvotes me soon, he's going to drop by, hammer me, and you'll lose a townie.

Yeah, because your scumbuddies will kill one tonight.

[Coron]

And you know, if no one unvotes me soon, he's going to drop by, hammer me, and you'll lose a townie.

Yeah, because your scumbuddies will kill one tonight.

I calls em the way I sees em.

DGB, you are trying to be slippery, but I are not tricked.

[Coron]

Mod: Please replace me do to personal issue.
Thanks

[Coron]

I'm willing to do it myself.

If you were making more of an effort to save yourself and less of an effort to use every scum near death gambit in the book(and perhaps a few inventive ones I've never seen in any books) I'd be more likely to stop voting you.

[Coron]

Elmo and Incog- Please look at Food Fight Mafia. BM and Skruffs bickered for frikkin' ever, and they were town and scum. That's quite similar to what I see here.

Gorrad, I've seen this situation god knows how many times, with 1 scum 1 town, 2 town, 2 scum, or even a neutral and a town. One anecdotal story isn't going to change my opinion on this.

[Coron]

EBWODP:
It looks roughly like this compared to a normal distribution:

2 town: maybe slightly lower say 1/2
1 town 1 scum: more likely say 15/32
2 scum: less likely say 1/32
1 neutral 1 town: Very unlikely say WTF

normal distribution assuming 1/4 of the game is scum is:
2 town 9/16
1 town 1 scum: 3/8
2 scum: 1/16
Neutral: what the fuck.

So the total scum between the two raises 1/32. Which qualifies it to raise the percentage that each is scum about 3.125%. Just a hint, that's not a huge tell, but it is a tell.

So basically what I'm saying is that you're taking a minor tell way out of proportion.

[Coron]

oop, sorry, each person's chance to be scum raised 1/64(for a total of 1/32), so it's actually 1.5625%, my bad.

[Coron]

I'm willing to do it myself.

If you were making more of an effort to save yourself and less of an effort to use every scum near death gambit in the book(and perhaps a few inventive ones I've never seen in any books) I'd be more likely to stop voting you.

I'm just vanilla. Better to lynch me than a cop or a doc. I have nothing to save myself.

this ground has been covered and recovered.

And don't give me that "I'd be more likely to stop voting you" BS. That's so phony. On one hand you're saying that I'm using "every scum near death gambit in the book" and on another you're complaining that I'm "not making enough of an effort to save myself."

not making any effort to save yourself except through scumgambits.

Nobody is going to unvote me, nobody is going to change their vote.

I'm as good as dead.

I'm totally outscummed in this game.

You know, I was seriously on edge about the vote until you started doing all this funky bullshit.

[Coron]

Needless to say I'm sticking with the game.

That needed to be said. I was not aware.

I did some analysis overnight that now seems a lot less important now that scotmany is dead and proven town, but I guess I'll post it anyway so you can laugh at me.

scotmany12 wrote:
I really didn't find ek's comment scummy at all. I really just saw it as her being misinformed and confused. I don't understand your fos at all.

I think the two most scummiest in my eyes are dave and q21, at least for now. Possibly xtoxm as well (mostly due to ashmite's behavior).

scotmany12 wrote:
Ether wrote:
Scot, what are your opinions of Xtoxm and Incognito?


Indifferent on Incog; I'm unable to form a solid opinion of him at this time. Leaning towards scum with xtoxm.

scotmany12 wrote:

Oh, and xtoxm should hammer

scotmany12 wrote:
Well, I actually agreed that xtoxm is scummy. I just find q21 more scummy...

scotmany12 wrote:
Vote: Xtoxm

scotmany12 wrote:
I don't believe that for a second xtoxm. Your last post in this thread was on Monday. Between that post and your most recent one here, you have made a total of 65 posts (give or take a few). And you haven't been able to check the site that much? Bullshit. You just flat out lied to everyone involved in this game.


various calls for people to vote for xtoxm after this.

I need to go take a look at the game context of a couple of these quotes, then I'll get back to you on finer details, but now I'm off to a party, back later.

Forgot about this when things happened, I'm re-examining overnight, I will post this when day comes.

Context of first: Ether prods him about what he thinks of incog and xtoxm after voting xtoxm, and seems to be trying to push xtoxm pretty hard. Why did armlx think Ether was scum again? First quote does not really do much for me either way.

In here DGB self votes, promoting my belief that selfvoting in a post-random point, or proclaiming that you are scum(joking or no), is a fairly strong scumtell.

Ether says some more cool stuff. Ether was pretty obv town, I dunno what armlx was thinking.

Bandwagon and suspicion builds on Xtoxm, I vote scot, because I'm awesome.

I guess hindsight is 20/20, DGB advises Xtoxm to "put his vote somewhere more useful", ug.

DGB gets all annoyed because I vote scot without giving a reason, along with armlx(but I forgive you armlx), and scot himself.

He's the 3rd to suggest a xtoxm hammer, not much here.

Next post doesn't do much for me either.

DGB tries to direct xtoxm's vote again, why didn't I notice this before?

Xtoxm votes Scot. Could be scum distancing, hard to tell.

Scot votes Xtoxm and is immediately OMGUSed could this be a planned thing right out of the night?

Flameaxe admits(jokingly) to trying to kill 2 town if a dude is supersaint. Again I find this to be a scumtell.

Scotmany asks people to post more. Town tell?

Scotmany is the first to bring up xtoxm's lie. could be a continuation a scum set up, but less likely this time.

Ok, so analysing that in detail brought down my suspicion of Scot, and increased my suspicion of Flameaxe, showed why Ether was obv town, and told me we should have lynched DGB so much sooner. That was pretty interesting.

[Coron]

Day 1 MM lyched: (Red is scum, green is town)

Incognito (1) --

Mellowed Man

q21 (2) --

scotmany12, JDodge

Coron (1) -- Incognito
Mellowed Man (10) --

Ether

, Elmo,

armlx, q21, mr. incrediball

, Flameaxe,

babygirl86

, Sarcastro, Coron, Dave
mr. incrediball (2) --

Xtoxm, Marmalade

I'm always, always of the opinion day one you can find at least one scum on a BW of a townie. Here not highlighted is Elmo, Flameaxe, Sarcastro, Coron and Dave (Gorrad)

Day 2 q21 lynched:

q21 (8) --

scotmany12, JDodge

, Sarcastro,

DrippingGoofball

,

elvis_knits

, farside22, Flameaxe,

armlx

Xtoxm (1) -- Elmo
scotmany12 (2) -- Coron,

Xtoxm

armlx (3) -- Incognito,

q21, Ether

I see 2 familiar faces on this day 2 wagon. Flameaxe and Sarcastro.

Day 3 Xtoxm scum.
Xtoxm (7) --

scotmany12, elvis_knits

, Sarcastro, farside22, Flameaxe,

armlx

, Incognito
scotmany12 (1) --

Xtoxm

Incognito (1) --

DrippingGoofball

Not voting: Coron, Gorrad,

Ether

, Elmo

I note those who never voted as Coron, Gorrad and Elmo. I wouldn't be surprised to see scum bussing, but I'm always concerned when a scum is voted out and there are people not voting.

Day 4 Armlx:
Ether (1) --

armlx

Sarcastro (1) -- Elmo
armlx (6) --

Ether, scotmany12

,

DrippingGoofball

, Sarcastro, Incognito, Gorrad
DrippingGoofball (1) -- farside22

Not voting: Flameaxe, Coron

Day 5:

DGB lynch scum
Incognito (1) -- Gorrad
DrippingGoofball (5) -- Elmo,

scotmany12

, Coron, farside22, Incognito

Not voting: Sarcastro,

DrippingGoofball

, Flameaxe

In almost all of these lynches I see 2 familiar faces. One is Flameaxe and the other is Sarcastro. Neither has made any great leaps for me in actual scum hunting. I think both are good lynches for today based on this analysis.

Great, now what are your thoughts other than voting paterns.

[Coron]

Did you even read what I said inbetween each day lynch and them my comment at the end:

In almost all of these lynches I see 2 familiar faces. One is Flameaxe and the other is Sarcastro. Neither has made any great leaps for me in actual scum hunting. I think both are good lynches for today based on this analysis.
Great, now what are your thoughts other than voting paterns.

Sorry, I meant "Great, now what are your thoughts other than your thoughts on voting paterns."

[Coron]

Did you even read what I said inbetween each day lynch and them my comment at the end:

In almost all of these lynches I see 2 familiar faces. One is Flameaxe and the other is Sarcastro. Neither has made any great leaps for me in actual scum hunting. I think both are good lynches for today based on this analysis.
Great, now what are your thoughts other than voting paterns.

Sorry, I meant "Great, now what are your thoughts other than your thoughts on voting paterns."

That is going to take a read through more clearly, which I don't have time today. I will do a post analysis of flameaxe and sarac tomorrow, beem my comment at the end:

In almost all of these lynches I see 2 familiar faces. One is Flameaxe and the other is Sarcastro. Neither has made any great leaps for me in actual scum hunting. I think both are good lynches for today based on this analysis.
Great, now what are your thoughts other than voting paterns.

Sorry, I meant "Great, now what are your thoughts other than your thoughts on voting paterns."[/quote]

That is going to take a read through more clearly, which I don't have time today. I will do a post analysis of flameaxe and sarac tomorrow, because my vote analysis leads me to believe one or both as scum at this point.[/quote]cause my vote analysis leads me to believe one or both as scum at this point.[/quote] I suggest you do analysis(or at least skim over the posts) of at least 2 other people, and don't let confirmation bias get the best of you.

I hope to see your comments in the near future.

[Coron]

That analysis is convincing. I may have to rethink past ideas.

No it wasn't, but the second part is almost always true in mafia.

[Coron]

I'm a firm believer in vote assesments.

I've seen it work for me more then not when I look at votes.
@Coron. I will do my best to look at everyone tomorrow and have point by point on each persons post and comments.

I think posts in which votes are cast are important, but there is more to it than just "hey let's compare some lists!" When, how, why, where, what, duck, cat, green, and bob dole, are all important factors too.

Also votes that don't lead to lynches also provide info.

Take for instance, the inevitability of an Xtoxm lynch after he was proven to be a liar. Votes after that point are as or more likely to be placed by scum.

[Coron]

Coron keeps being right. That's a neat trick.

It is.

[Coron]

Holy CRAP paragraphing is your friend. PLEASE. I'm going to wait until you do some serious paragraphing on that to read it.

[Coron]

Holy CRAP paragraphing is your friend. PLEASE. I'm going to wait until you do some serious paragraphing on that to read it.

If you don't want to read it all read the bottom part that has my final thoughts on the player.

I want to read it all in nice broken up paragraphs please.

[Coron]

Holy CRAP paragraphing is your friend. PLEASE. I'm going to wait until you do some serious paragraphing on that to read it.

If you don't want to read it all read the bottom part that has my final thoughts on the player.

I want to read it all in nice broken up paragraphs please.

Seriously give me a break. Just read it as is.

Done. But paragraph in the future PLEASE.

[Coron]

bump

[Coron]

I want everyone's opinions on a flameaxe lynch for today.

[Coron]

Finally post 38 has quotes and thats it all quotes with one comment at the end. (I'm speechless)

I love me.

Question about you scum list. You had DGB, Scot and Elmo as you top 3. Do you still feel Elmo is scummy, why?
Awe list changed ever so slightly where Elmo is now #2 and Incog and Sarcastro are tied. Could you expand more on this?

the first question first. I need to a reread of Elmo, but right now he's my top suspect. Not much has changed in that regard. I'm betting that the scum are found in Flameaxe, elmo, and Sarc, with an outside shot of incog, he's the other person I really feel like I need a reread on.

Second question: I had trouble parsing this, is this even aimed at me?

There was a lot more Coron did after this, but I read enough to feel that Coron is not scum. A lot of what he did yesterday and coming on strong about his points. His participation and the comments back and forth between DGB and him were enough for me not to see this as scum bussing each other.

Good call.

[Coron]

Break time.
2 more people left, but brian went to mush.

Who is Brian, and why does whether or not he goes to mush affect your posting.

[Coron]

Finally post 38 has quotes and thats it all quotes with one comment at the end. (I'm speechless)

I love me.

Question about you scum list. You had DGB, Scot and Elmo as you top 3. Do you still feel Elmo is scummy, why?
Awe list changed ever so slightly where Elmo is now #2 and Incog and Sarcastro are tied. Could you expand more on this?

the first question first. I need to a reread of Elmo, but right now he's my top suspect. Not much has changed in that regard. I'm betting that the scum are found in Flameaxe, elmo, and Sarc, with an outside shot of incog, he's the other person I really feel like I need a reread on.

Second question: I had trouble parsing this, is this even aimed at me?

There was a lot more Coron did after this, but I read enough to feel that Coron is not scum. A lot of what he did yesterday and coming on strong about his points. His participation and the comments back and forth between DGB and him were enough for me not to see this as scum bussing each other.

Good call.

I know it was a mess, but did you read my points on Elmo?

Yes, don't remember much about them. If you better organized/summarized them it'd be more accessable.

[Coron]

(Let me know if this looks any better. I broke it down with my orginal post and more paragraphs on certain points.)

Much better.

PS. If you could summarize this whole thing when you get done and put all your overall thoughts of people in one spot, I'd appreciate it.

[Coron]

Huh. Rereading Elmo myself I have been getting a strong town read as opposed to my read earlier. I was probably fooled by the fact that his playstyle is one that is not entirely familiar to me.

He seems to have many many of the same opinions that I've had throughout the game. Ranging from thinking Mellowed was scum, to having a very bad feeling about the armlx lynch. He does the little "vote someone I'm not suspicious of" trick twice, which I'm atributing to playstyle instead of any particular alignment. His place on the DGB wagon gets him a few townie points from me.

Yeah, that makes me even more happy with a flameaxe lynch.

[Coron]

That last post was a joke. Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

Don't worry I figured that out.

[Coron]

Okay, rereading incog.

I'll pull out some quotes of interest. I want other people's opinions on them, this includes you too incog. If you see something in here worth mentioning whether you still agree with, or perhaps could use some more clarification, please do.

"Major pro-town points to Marmalade for Post 113 in which he votes for and FoS's two of the people who failed to explain their Incog-wagon votes."

"@Coron: Why did you not bother to comment on the progression of my wagon or actually become involved in any form of scum-hunting? Also, what was the reason for your recent unvote?"

"@ashmite84: ... Why did you not bother to wait until I actually responded again before placing me at L-2? Do you think that page 5 of a thread is an appropriate time to place someone that close to lynch?"

"JDodge wrote:
'Coron and e_k are almost entirely certainly town. Vote: q21, let's do this day right this time.'

What makes you think that both Coron and elvis_knits are almost certainly town?"

" Vote: Flameaxe

Would any of the non-voters care to join me on a mid day 2 lurker wagon?"

"JDodge wrote:
'Geez, Incognita (ah memories), it's like you're trying to get rid of townies or something.'

What makes you think that Flameaxe is town?"

"Speaking of Xtoxm though, Xtoxm, is there any reason you didn't do some kind of a summary upon entering the game as a replacement?"

"Linking people without any knowledge of alignments is pretty silly. I've already said why I have no read of Xtoxm and you're not going to force me to manufacture one just because you think I'm wrong. He's been providing his own thoughts with respect to the game, and he's voted for the people who he's been suspicious of. In NG 581 which I linked to, his posts just seemed more theoretical and completely outside of the realm of the game. If you would like to continue voting for him, then that's fine with me but you're not going to force me to do so by accusing me of being scum."

"I dislike the q21 wagon, and I don't think he's scum here. I think his wagon has turned into a wagon of convenience at this point. I especially don't like the fact that I'm being urged to hammer him by certain people. This game has been really hard to get into because the two main wagons that have existed in this game (mine and q21's) seemed to originate out of nowhere and no matter what he or I've said, they've still existed. I think people are just trying to get a lynch in without actually thinking about what's going on. "

"Anyway, like I've mentioned before, I really don't think Xtoxm is scum in this game and that's why I haven't voted for him. I should note also that I haven't been on any of the wagons for any of the townies who have died thus far in this game and yet you still hold me as the scummiest of the game which is really quite laughable. 10 bucks someone points that out as a scumtell too. I'm going to be rereading with that type of wagon analysis specifically in mind."

"farside22 feels really scummy to me thus far as do Coron and DGB. I'd certainly like to see much more from each of them as well."

"Anyway, as promised, I'll be laying down the hammer. If I end up dead because of this, all I can say is I told ya so. Look over my posts and please do me a favor and grill the shit out of these lurkers/non-content providers already. Thank you.

Unvote; Vote: Xtoxm"

this whole post:

You guys want a really, really, really good bandwagon?

Vote: Sarcastro

This early exchange between ashmite and Sarcastro reeks of scum attempting to link his scumbuddy with town:

I'm keen to see how the Sarcastro / Incognito exchange plays out before I comment.

Translation: you're his scumbuddy and you'll only bus him if you're sure that I can convince the town. Good to know.

I'm keen to see how the Sarcastro / Incognito exchange plays out before I comment.

Translation: you're his scumbuddy and you'll only bus him if you're sure that I can convince the town. Good to know.

Nah, just trying to decide if it's some grade A distancing, a misunderstandng between 2 townies, you've got his number or you're trying to start a wagon. And besides which it's very entertaining

Sarcastro even took this idea further when Xtoxm replaced in suggesting along with Ether that Xtoxm might be a scum power role here after Ether explained it to him:

Sarcastro, can we deal with him later? Xtoxm is much more likely to hold a power role.

Hm, perhaps. Why do you think he's more likely to be a power role, though?

The above post almost seems like Sarcastro knew that Xtoxm actually

didn't

have a scum power role. Then there was this post from Sarc directly afterwards:

Oh no! He's onto us, Ether! I knew we shouldn't have conspired to lynch power roles in the thread!

Anyway, I guess I'm okay with a Xtoxm lynch. If a bandwagon on him gets going, I'll switch over.

Want a real translation? "I will only bus my buddy if a good, solid bandwagon gets going on him otherwise I'd rather keep my vote on Incog-town. Then when Incog is lynched and shows up town, Xtoxm might be cleared."

And now that Xtoxm was revealed to not have a scum power role, Sarcastro is still attempting to push for my lynch without even considering all of the facts. Let's also not forget the fact that Sarcastro has been active lurking all game and has had a VERY strong tendency to push the bandwagons of people who have shown up as town.

"Elmo, armlx, and now to a certain extent Coron have been defending me a bit. I've never played with any of them before so I suppose there's two possibilities for them: they're either town who think I'm also town or scum who are buddying up to me. I don't think all three of them are scum, but I'd bet at least one of them is."

Feel free to pick and choose your quotes, there are a lot of them.

[Coron]

Oh, and I forgot scum could day talk out of thread, that changes my view of some things. I may need to rerereread this game.

[Coron]

Oh, and I forgot scum could day talk out of thread, that changes my view of some things. I may need to rerereread this game.

I forgot about that too. Doesn't that make Incog comment about scum talking to each other invalid? I would say yes. If scum can communicate anytime why would they need to try and do the interactions as he pointed out when they can just discuss it at any time.

none of those quotes struck you as... anything? impressive.

[Coron]

Buhbump. Flameaxe? Sarc? Gorrad? Incog? I need moar comments from all of you.

[Coron]

Buhbump. Flameaxe? Sarc? Gorrad? Incog? I need moar comments from all of you.

Sorry about my lack of contribution. See my sig about my access at this time.

About Flameaxe though: Please see my Post 1286 for my opinion on him. I just think DGB's categorization of him as "harmless" might be indicative of him being town rather than scum.

I have sigs set to off, because they're mostly just distracting. I couldn't even tell you what's in my sig right now. I might have cleared it out, I really don't know.

Also, I didn't just ask for comments on Flameaxe. If you could catch up and comment on everything it'd be appreciated.

-Coron

[Coron]

Okay, rereading incog.

I'll pull out some quotes of interest. I want other people's opinions on them, this includes you too incog. If you see something in here worth mentioning whether you still agree with, or perhaps could use some more clarification, please do.

"Major pro-town points to Marmalade for Post 113 in which he votes for and FoS's two of the people who failed to explain their Incog-wagon votes."

"@Coron: Why did you not bother to comment on the progression of my wagon or actually become involved in any form of scum-hunting? Also, what was the reason for your recent unvote?"

"@ashmite84: ... Why did you not bother to wait until I actually responded again before placing me at L-2? Do you think that page 5 of a thread is an appropriate time to place someone that close to lynch?"

"JDodge wrote:
'Coron and e_k are almost entirely certainly town. Vote: q21, let's do this day right this time.'

What makes you think that both Coron and elvis_knits are almost certainly town?"

" Vote: Flameaxe

Would any of the non-voters care to join me on a mid day 2 lurker wagon?"

"JDodge wrote:
'Geez, Incognita (ah memories), it's like you're trying to get rid of townies or something.'

What makes you think that Flameaxe is town?"

"Speaking of Xtoxm though, Xtoxm, is there any reason you didn't do some kind of a summary upon entering the game as a replacement?"

"Linking people without any knowledge of alignments is pretty silly. I've already said why I have no read of Xtoxm and you're not going to force me to manufacture one just because you think I'm wrong. He's been providing his own thoughts with respect to the game, and he's voted for the people who he's been suspicious of. In NG 581 which I linked to, his posts just seemed more theoretical and completely outside of the realm of the game. If you would like to continue voting for him, then that's fine with me but you're not going to force me to do so by accusing me of being scum."

"I dislike the q21 wagon, and I don't think he's scum here. I think his wagon has turned into a wagon of convenience at this point. I especially don't like the fact that I'm being urged to hammer him by certain people. This game has been really hard to get into because the two main wagons that have existed in this game (mine and q21's) seemed to originate out of nowhere and no matter what he or I've said, they've still existed. I think people are just trying to get a lynch in without actually thinking about what's going on. "

"Anyway, like I've mentioned before, I really don't think Xtoxm is scum in this game and that's why I haven't voted for him. I should note also that I haven't been on any of the wagons for any of the townies who have died thus far in this game and yet you still hold me as the scummiest of the game which is really quite laughable. 10 bucks someone points that out as a scumtell too. I'm going to be rereading with that type of wagon analysis specifically in mind."

"farside22 feels really scummy to me thus far as do Coron and DGB. I'd certainly like to see much more from each of them as well."

"Anyway, as promised, I'll be laying down the hammer. If I end up dead because of this, all I can say is I told ya so. Look over my posts and please do me a favor and grill the shit out of these lurkers/non-content providers already. Thank you.

Unvote; Vote: Xtoxm"

this whole post:

You guys want a really, really, really good bandwagon?

Vote: Sarcastro

This early exchange between ashmite and Sarcastro reeks of scum attempting to link his scumbuddy with town:

I'm keen to see how the Sarcastro / Incognito exchange plays out before I comment.

Translation: you're his scumbuddy and you'll only bus him if you're sure that I can convince the town. Good to know.

I'm keen to see how the Sarcastro / Incognito exchange plays out before I comment.

Translation: you're his scumbuddy and you'll only bus him if you're sure that I can convince the town. Good to know.

Nah, just trying to decide if it's some grade A distancing, a misunderstandng between 2 townies, you've got his number or you're trying to start a wagon. And besides which it's very entertaining

Sarcastro even took this idea further when Xtoxm replaced in suggesting along with Ether that Xtoxm might be a scum power role here after Ether explained it to him:

Sarcastro, can we deal with him later? Xtoxm is much more likely to hold a power role.

Hm, perhaps. Why do you think he's more likely to be a power role, though?

The above post almost seems like Sarcastro knew that Xtoxm actually

didn't

have a scum power role. Then there was this post from Sarc directly afterwards:

Oh no! He's onto us, Ether! I knew we shouldn't have conspired to lynch power roles in the thread!

Anyway, I guess I'm okay with a Xtoxm lynch. If a bandwagon on him gets going, I'll switch over.

Want a real translation? "I will only bus my buddy if a good, solid bandwagon gets going on him otherwise I'd rather keep my vote on Incog-town. Then when Incog is lynched and shows up town, Xtoxm might be cleared."

And now that Xtoxm was revealed to not have a scum power role, Sarcastro is still attempting to push for my lynch without even considering all of the facts. Let's also not forget the fact that Sarcastro has been active lurking all game and has had a VERY strong tendency to push the bandwagons of people who have shown up as town.

"Elmo, armlx, and now to a certain extent Coron have been defending me a bit. I've never played with any of them before so I suppose there's two possibilities for them: they're either town who think I'm also town or scum who are buddying up to me. I don't think all three of them are scum, but I'd bet at least one of them is."

Feel free to pick and choose your quotes, there are a lot of them.

Any of this would do.

Also, I note that you haven't voted which means either A) you think there is more to talk about or B) you don't want to get caught vote hopping.

[Coron]

I'm still torn between voting Incog and Flame. I'd vote Incog due to finding him scummy, and Flame for the vote analysis and major lurking. You did a good analysis of Incog, covered some good points...not really sure what you want from me at this point.

I didn't do one damn bit of analysis. I was like "hey here are some interesting things I think people need to comment on."

Coron: Do you suspect Gorrad? I might comment on that bit about Incognito later.

The more he evades commenting on things the more he seems scummy, but at this point, not really.

[Coron]

My definition of analysis is a bit more lax than yours, then. That you scanned his posts and pulled out ones you didn't like is analysing Incog, even if you didn't analyse his posts.

BZT. Wrong alright, I pulled posts that I felt were important for whatever reason, not just the ones that make him scummy.

Coron you are asking for people's opinion on what you found, but haven't stated your own opinion about it. What are your thoughts on what you found? Does the mafia's ability to communicate openly change your views on of the players?

I ain't gonna do all of it, because that would ruin the point... but I'll do some.
"farside22 feels really scummy to me thus far as do Coron and DGB. I'd certainly like to see much more from each of them as well." trying to get participation. Protown action generally.

"Elmo, armlx, and now to a certain extent Coron have been defending me a bit. I've never played with any of them before so I suppose there's two possibilities for them: they're either town who think I'm also town or scum who are buddying up to me. I don't think all three of them are scum, but I'd bet at least one of them is." Incog, do you still think this?

"Anyway, like I've mentioned before, I really don't think Xtoxm is scum in this game and that's why I haven't voted for him. I should note also that I haven't been on any of the wagons for any of the townies who have died thus far in this game and yet you still hold me as the scummiest of the game which is really quite laughable. 10 bucks someone points that out as a scumtell too. I'm going to be rereading with that type of wagon analysis specifically in mind." And hiding offwagon while townies are lynched is any better?
"Speaking of Xtoxm though, Xtoxm, is there any reason you didn't do some kind of a summary upon entering the game as a replacement?" Questions Xtoxm, increases protown chance.
"Linking people without any knowledge of alignments is pretty silly. I've already said why I have no read of Xtoxm and you're not going to force me to manufacture one just because you think I'm wrong. He's been providing his own thoughts with respect to the game, and he's voted for the people who he's been suspicious of. In NG 581 which I linked to, his posts just seemed more theoretical and completely outside of the realm of the game. If you would like to continue voting for him, then that's fine with me but you're not going to force me to do so by accusing me of being scum." Seems to overreact to the possibility of being linked with Xtoxm. Doesn't seem like that big of a deal if you didn't know Xtoxm was scum. ++ scumminess.

Here's a few random ones.

[Coron]

Buhbump.

Jesus guys, it's been 24 hours of no posts. Get on it

[Coron]

In particular, I didn't like your attack on scotmany12 where you called him "opportunistic" for voting for DGB just because you and Sarcastro voiced your opinions about her prior to when he placed his vote. It's awfully difficult to call someone opportunistic when, if I remember correctly, scot had mentioned even before you and Sarc mentioned stuff about her that he found her suspicious. Your attack on him just seemed really backwards and if you're scum, it could have been a way to shift attention from DGB and onto scot by labeling him as opportunistic when he was just following up on his previous suspicions with an actual vote.

BZZT. Wrong, his post right before it listed 3 people(none of them DGB), as the most suspicious 3 people. That's why it seemed suspicious. NOTE: I don't know if it was right before, but it was shortly before, and I think it was right before, too lazy too look it up.

Even your presentation of your night-time notes on scotmany12 at the start of today looks really suspect to me. I mean yeah, you were attacking him yesterday, so if you're town, it might make sense to have taken notes during the night to use as an attack on him today but if you're scum, your presentation of notes could be wine in front of me to show that you couldn't possibly be involved with his death since you took all these notes on him during the night to use against him today. Why did you not take notes about anyone other than scotmany12? There are two scum left in this game. Wouldn't you also take notes on people whom you might believe to be his possible partners?

I'll admit, it could seen as a ploy to prove my innocence. But it isn't. I looked over these things because at some point the previous day I was told to review Scot's position in the xtoxm wagon. Also, I did comment on Flameaxe and three dead players.

[Coron]

Fun exercise for

everyone

: Go pick any random Incognito post from Vollville. Pick any random post from here. Compare the two. Is it not kind of obvious?

Metagaming is anything but fun. If you don't mind, give me a rundown of yor thoughts on the similarities and diferences.

[Coron]

I kinda want to know what's up with flameaxe. This is getting uber annoying.

[Coron]

Xtoxm and DGB! (I'm in class, no time for a detailed post)

But during my reread of myself to refer back to what Farside said, Sarc didn't really seem all too hot to me. Then again, that was only a skim, and I'll read it more in-depth (as well as the other players) over the weekend.

You better.

[Coron]

It borders on Flameaxe-level.

No. Not even close. Flameaxe level lurking and worthless posting is much worse than that.

speaking of which I'm tired of this shit.

vote: flameaxe

[Coron]

...

Fuck this, I'm going back to lurking.

QFR = quoted for reasonableness.

Can we just lynch Flameaxe already, I want to move this game forward.

[Coron]

Flameaxe replacement would be good.

Please? Failing that we should lynch him and move on.

[Coron]

"Perhaps it's coincidence that Incognito and Gorrad put the last two votes on DGB, heh. Certainly there's remarkably little interaction between them."

If this is true, it's a good catch. This is my newest and most favoritest scumtell.

Right now it's late, I'm tired and have class tomorrow, and want to go look at my other games, and spent forever reading that monster. So, yeah, not now.

[Coron]

Firstly, flameaxe should have been replaced. His posts were REALLY REALLY infrequent, like 1-3 per prod or something like that, and 2/3rds of them didn't even pertain to mafia. It is just stupid to allow such a person to continue to play. Secondly, he normally posts a lot more, this is not the "usual flameaxe" and even if it was, I wouldn't really care.

Okay, mafia, so give me some insights into the private conversations you had. Right before the Xtoxm lynch? Right before the DGB lynch? Right before the Armlx lynch? Any other interesting times?

Before the end of yesterday, sarcastro was 2nd on my lynch list after Flameaxe, who was there from pure annoyance, but honestly after gorrad's hammer I would probably have voted him. It felt oh so wrong. Also I figured that the mafia would use their hiding powers on that day, when the day started, just so town didn't know whether it was at Lynch or Lose. I'd put farside back into the running just recently, but over all both of you did a great job. Sacastro was the only person I was truely suspicious of before Gorrad's hammer, which is kind of why I was willing to default to lynching flameaxe(there had to be 2 scum at least...).

Near the end I was sure elmo was town despite being suspicious for much of the game. I'm really not sure what the hang up was in the whole damn game about incog. Seriously. Guys, that was stupid.

Our power roles did end up getting so screwed it was crazy, I don't know if that was just random, or scum were actually aiming for any of it.

I still believe that the stupidest thing done in this game was the armlx lynch.

[Coron]

Also, wow, armlx and Coron's exchange starting around 581 is probably the best thing ever.

It cracks me up every time I read it.

[Coron]

1. I

totally

called Incog, babygirl, Coron, e_k, BBM. Then Incog pissed me off and diluted my opinion of him. Damnit. Was horrifically wrong on q21, but he needed to be lynched anyways.

2. Then I called Ether and Sarc, whilst saying DGB needed to be lynched as well. Then armlx threw me off again. Wrong on Xtoxm.

Essentially, had I been listened to, Sarc and DGB wouldn't have survived as long - I think Xtoxm's lynch would've become inevitable, and then farside would have a hellish chance of surviving. Also, the BBM-lynch was horrible. Absolutely horrible.

BBM's existence was horrible, absolutely horrible.