Mini #564 - Mafia in Crubtown - Game Over

[Crub]

Thirteenth Vote Count of Day 2

darkdude (2):

Talitha, Pink Puppy

QuantumFruit (1):

darkdude

vikingfan (1):

Akonas

Pink Puppy (1):

Cephrir

Cephrir (1):

EmpTyger

Not Voting (4):

thevampireofdusseldorf, QuantumFruit, windkirby, vikingfan

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

1 post in 1.5 days = deadline approaching, pick it up

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Looking at the above vote count if it is right I wonder why PP still has her vote on dd.
I will admit I have had a fluctuating opinion on dd, from new town to new scum. I am really not sure. At times he does very wierd/new/scummy things but then a few post later makes good arguments and looks pro town.
Im also a bit hesitant about supporting a cephrir wagon, I have mild suspicions about him but the case PP put forward as I have mentioned seems to me to be a little thin and stretched.

Just saw the deadline looming threat mentioned above.

I would not like to be pushed into a vote on one out of two people I am not that certain about (like an American Election), I presume the mod would like more talk so I will do another reread and see if there is any thing more perhaps to add.

[Pink Puppy]

I still think DD and Cephrir are scummiest, and would be willing to vote either. If you think my case is thin or wrong, please come up with someone who you think is scummy. It's a little frustrating to see a number of good players just sitting back and not even voting anyone with a deadline approaching. Leaving it until the last minute cannot help us.

[Cephrir]

If nobody else votes PP soon, I would vote for Akonas or darkdude as well.

[darkdude]

Well I don't want to join any wagons since I still highly suspect QF...

[Cephrir]

Your suspicions haven't changed in 7 pages...?

[windkirby]

Hmm...

Something about Akonas rubs me the wrong way a

tiny

bit, but there is really nothing wrong with his posts that I can point out... Probably subliminal.

At any rate, if we hit the deadline, I'm probably leaning towards hopping on the Ceph wagon. While most of PP's points don't go too well for me, I think that the aggression issue is a big one: Day 1 he wants to find info, so he's agressive. Day 2, he's out of energy, and then states that he isn't sure how to proceed, while no situation like this transpired for him the previous day due to his very aggressive attitude. Where did the aggression go? Despite this, he could just be a townie who dropped a few notches on the interest-ometer overnight. Not too sure...

[Cephrir]

and then states that he isn't sure how to proceed

...for all of two seconds. I have no idea why everyone is making a huge thing out of this; dd had no suspects, like, forever, but I'm the one getting attacked for some reason.

dd's latest post almost is enough to make me prefer him to Akonas, but not quite. People talking about how they will vote at deadline, myself included- there's no deadline yet, you know. We

can

still do other things. It seems that either darkdude or I will end up being the lynch if there is a deadline soon, seeing as just about everyone has stated they would be willing to go with him and several want to kill me, but I'm really not satisfied with a darkdude lynch and I don't plan on selfvoting. That said, PP is obviously going nowhere; I have no idea why. Nonetheless, I should place my vote somewhere useful. I wish I could figure out what it is that seems off to me about Akonas. His vikingfan suspicions seem a little fake, but maybe that's just me disagreeing, since I see at least three better targets. And there are a few people just sort of hanging out in the background, saying nothing controversial, that bother me... hmmmmm. Well, my top suspect isn't going to get lynched today, and I don't think there's much against said background people, they're just quiet. Between the two, I just have to

Unvote, Vote Akonas

. My gut is often wrong, but this is one of the strongest feelings I've had in a long time.

Well, that was rather stream-of-consciousness. I love doing that.

[darkdude]

dd's latest post almost is enough to make me prefer him to Akonas

What? You just said I was suspicious for not changing my opinion on QF for 7 pages. Now I'm lower on your scumdar?

By the way I still suspect QF because of the previously mentioned things. Cephrir doesn't seem very suspicious to me...yet. QF seems to have sort of decreased her activity when suspicions were cast on Cephrir. But it could be that I'm only noticing this due to my previous suspicions; activity overall was low enough for the mod to issue a warning for deadline.

[Cephrir]

What? You just said I was suspicious for not changing my opinion on QF for 7 pages. Now I'm lower on your scumdar?

No, higher. Prefer as in prefer to vote.

By the way I still suspect QF because of the previously mentioned things. Cephrir doesn't seem very suspicious to me

...yet

. QF seems to have sort of decreased her activity when suspicions were cast on Cephrir. But it could be that I'm only noticing this due to my previous suspicions; activity overall was low enough for the mod to issue a warning for deadline.

Mmmmm.... excuse to change your opinion later... no, I'm not actually using that as a tell, it's just odd. Your QF thing was really just one little thing, I'm surprised you aren't more moved by

something

, be it Akonas, PP, me, vikingfan, zeddicus... basically anyone that a case has been made against since page 18.

[darkdude]

Yeah I put "yet" because of your last post where it seemed to contradict the earlier one.

[EmpTyger]

Cephrir:

and then states that he isn't sure how to proceed

...for all of two seconds. I have no idea why everyone is making a huge thing out of this; dd had no suspects, like, forever, but I'm the one getting attacked for some reason.
<snip>

Who is attacking you who isn’t also attacking darkdude?

(As far as your “feeling” about Akonas, it’s falling squarely in my “too little too late” box.)

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Mod

can you please prod the two love birds, Akonas and QuantumFruit.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir:

and then states that he isn't sure how to proceed

...for all of two seconds. I have no idea why everyone is making a huge thing out of this; dd had no suspects, like, forever, but I'm the one getting attacked for some reason.
<snip>

Who is attacking you who isn’t also attacking darkdude?

(As far as your “feeling” about Akonas, it’s falling squarely in my “too little too late” box.)

Well, PP has sure been all over me for it, much moreso. And there's probably someone.

I really, really don't care what box of yours it falls in; I'm not voting to please you, you can think whatever you want but I am going to try to get a scum lynched today.

[Akonas]

I'm just trying to be helpful so that we don't lynch YET ANOTHER stupid townie.

I'm getting a bit confused here, and again you reference moz in your "YET ANOTHER stupid townie" comment.
For someone who has stated constantly about DD

No, I don't know he's a townie; I'm suspicious of him, but I'm not sure.

you have tried giving many implications that he is in fact town. Im seeing this as all rather wierd: using the line about I dont know about DD, being helpful towards him and making many references to him being town. Something is not adding up IMO.

Alright... Let me explain. I don't want to lynch another townie for being stupid/bad town, like mozsuggs was lynched. I have seen people (I think I was this way myself) who are decent at playing the game, know some tells and whatnot, but don't know how to defend themselves (it's worth noting that this is done very differently in the game from real life). Darkdude has been putting off some fairly strong tells, and now I'm thinking he's likely scum--he hasn't been doing anything since suspicion shifted a bit away from him. I just wanted to give him a chance to be a good townie. Take a look at this post:

You clearly know what types of things to look for. D1 you were pointing out QF’s “scum bandwagoning”, Yvonne’s “baseless accusations” and “directing attention”, and the holes in mozs’s defense. And then earlier D2 you deduced that you were being framed, and how to make your defense most plausible. And you’ve also pointed out VoD’s taking a deciding vote less than seriously, and the distinction between voting for a claim rather than a lynch, and you’ve lurkerprodded zeddicus. And you’re especially able to play quite fine when it comes to defending yourself, or when you’ve attacked 2 players who, as it turns out, are innocent (that is, Yvonne and mozs; though also from *my* point of view, since *I* know zeddicus’s innocent).

But then every so often you lapse into this unhelpful cluelessness. You quickly resort to a claiming unfamiliarity with the site, and you just make everything out to be so much more hopelessly complicated than it actually is, that you can’t possibly express suspicions.

First of all, thanks for the compliment.

But do you honestly expect people to find those things all the time, with no break in between? And I wasn't using the newbie argument in my last few posts. I was talking specifically about this game. I didn't blame my recent lack of leads on noobishness.

---

I guess. It still wasn't a factor in my thought process. It's not like I thought, "Oh, this guy's going to get replaced soon so I'm going to unvote him" at the time.

Why not? That seems like kind of an important thing.

---

Something about Akonas rubs me the wrong way a

tiny

bit, but there is really nothing wrong with his posts that I can point out... Probably subliminal.

It could be worth looking at; often gut feelings are useful (see my sig for the purpose of talking). See if you can find something to back it up, though. Or if you can't find anything, maybe put it to rest.

[Cephrir]

Why not? That seems like kind of an important thing.

What I mean is, when I voted, it wasn't with the intent of unvoting soon.

It could be worth looking at; often gut feelings are useful (see my sig for the purpose of talking). See if you can find something to back it up, though. Or if you can't find anything, maybe put it to rest.

Saying this when the context is yourself and sounding all helpful-ish is weird.

[darkdude]

Darkdude has been putting off some fairly strong tells, and now I'm thinking he's likely scum--he hasn't been doing anything since suspicion shifted a bit away from him.

I think you're right. Recently I've just been watching this Cephrir thing unfold since I wasn't really suspicious of him.

Saying this when the context is yourself and sounding all helpful-ish is weird.

I think it kind of fits his image; remember the last time I said why I thought he was pro-town? It seems like the sort of helpful-ish thing that he would say. Only the last part is kind of weird:

Or if you can't find anything, maybe put it to rest.

That could be interpreted as "if you can't find evidence, don't suspect it anymore" which is weird considering that a gut feeling remains a gut feeling BECAUSE of the fact that it lacks evidence.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Akonas, so you would support a DD wagon at this stage then?

[Akonas]

Yes.

-----

Why not? That seems like kind of an important thing.

What I mean is, when I voted, it wasn't with the intent of unvoting soon.

But why didn't you keep in mind that he was going to get replaced and his replacement would have a chance to put up a defense?

[EmpTyger]

darkdude:

<snip>
Only the last part is kind of weird:

Or if you can't find anything, maybe put it to rest.

That could be interpreted as "if you can't find evidence, don't suspect it anymore" which is weird considering that a gut feeling remains a gut feeling BECAUSE of the fact that it lacks evidence.

I think it’s the interpretation that’s weird, not Akonas’s message. Akonas is essentially telling windkirby (et al) that if he can’t find tangible evidence for X, maybe start looking for a Y. Or, more informally, put up or shut up.

---

Cephrir:

Cephrir:

<snip>
dd had no suspects, like, forever, but I'm the one getting attacked for some reason.
<snip>

Who is attacking you who isn’t also attacking darkdude?
<snip>

Well, PP has sure been all over me for it, much moreso. And there's probably someone.
<snip>

Guess again. PP is *voting* darkdude. Do you have any other empty accusations to toss out?

---

Akonas:
Again: Cephrir’s consistently been highly suspicious of you. What do you think of Cephrir?

[Crub]

Prodded QuantumFruit, Talitha, vikingfan

I'm also now strangely wondering which thread I posted this in already.

[QuantumFruit]

First of all, sorry for lurking. I wasn't actually, but I enjoy calling it that because it's amusing. Anyway, haven't really been into mafia lately - felt like doing some art (and much heavy contemplation about college). Actually, I'll also be lurking from Wednesday April 16th to Saturday April 19th (college visit), so there you go.

--

@PinkPuppy: In reference to p. 23 - I feel like you're disagreeing with Cephrir's playstyle not an actual scumtell, and I don't think that objectively it was very scummy that he switched from being aggressive. What would prompt switching from aggressive to non-aggressive? Would that be scummy? Did Cephrir do it based on something scummy? Because the act in and of itself is not necessarily scummy. What circumstances that created it make it scummy?

On the other hand, this makes a lot of sense:

When you first voted Zeddicus, I asked you if you had seen my post stating zeddicus was also absent from another of my games and needed replacement. You said you had seen my post and didn't care. Scummy play is scummy play, etc. If that is the way you play, I would not expect you to unvote the player who replaces in, because afterall they have the same allignment [sic].

@Cephrir:

It's not because I disagree with your reasons, it's because after I respond in a way that (to my mind, at least) is a fine defense, you don't back them up again and instead go on claiming I'm scum. You don't have to respond to everything I write, but when you attack me, and I defend myself, I definitely do expect you to either have something else to say on the matter or back off.

Isn't that what she's doing? I dunno, just saying.

@PinkPuppy:

I really hate arguing the difference between saying someone is "not proactive" vs. "Being reactive is bad." Hate it. I think it distracts from anything useful.

You're so utilitarian.

@VoD: I'm writing now in response to your critique of Akonas saying first that he wasn't sure darkdude was a townie, but that he was somewhat suspicious and then saying he didn't want to lynch another townie: that's not contradictory. I can see why you'd think so and (sorry PinkPuppy), this is kind of semantics, but ultimately, he's not sure darkdude is a townie, so...

darkdude may or may not be a townie
Akonas is unsure, but suspicious that he may not be a townie
and then he

implies

that darkdude is town when he says he didn't want to lynch a stupid townie

Throughout, he maintains a fairly tentative position, and if anything, we should probably examine that behavior from Akonas.

@Talitha:

And I think it's suspicious that you want to treat Zeddicus and EmpTyger as separate entities, just because I don't think it's a natural reaction for a genuine scum-hunting townie.

That's definitely how I'd react regardless of the case. I never really felt very strongly about zeddicus, though, so I can't really do anything here. And the only other game I played in (where I was scum), I wasn't targeting the player who got replaced, so I don't have very much practical experience. It seems fairly natural, though.

@PinkPuppy:

I also find it funny that you were never suspicious of me until I started questioning your actions. Your vote on me is basically glorified OMGUS.

I don't agree with this at all. This is the sort of argument I'd make if I were scum - and have. If you arguments seem weak and built on faulty logic to him, he will naturally be suspicious of you for appearing opportunistic.

@PinkPuppy and Cephrir: Perhaps Cephrir/you (as the case may be) thought zeddicus would have a chance to respond before the replacement and the vote would put pressure? That's only thing that could really make sense.

@Akonas: The "helpfulness" seems like a contrivance. Kind of like pasting a halo above your head and shouting "I am God reincarnate!!!" in the middle of a crowded street. By which I mean "Look at me, I'm a good townie!!" You're not half that nice in person (now I'm just being a jerk, and I acknowledge this).

@darkdude:

Well I don't want to join any wagons since I still highly suspect QF...

That's fine, of course, but may I ask why? Without your permission I will do it anyway: Why are you suspicious of me, darkdude? You mentioned stuff, but it was kind of vague. I mean you tend to do that, but try really attacking me. Do what PinkPuppy did to Cephrir, but better.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok I have a decent idea now on who to possibly vote for.
It will not happen yet as I want to try and get some more out of this day.

@DD what was your case on QF from 7 pages and has QF done anything to add or lessen your suspicions?
Has anyone else been slightly suspicious to you in the last 7 pages if so whom?

@Akonas just to help me get a sense of comitment from you how strongly do you belive dd to be scum, a bet of $1-$10 would be helpful.

@Emp I see you investigating some possible "relationships" between players, or thats how it appears to me. Do you have any scum team possibilities you would like to share?

@QF please give us one of those epic posts you gave us day one.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

QF ^ thank you.

[QuantumFruit]

Hahahaha. Wow, that happened twice. You typed that while I was finishing up posting it and Crub prodded me as I was posting it.

This is the only one of my mafia games I like at all. The other two are kind of lame at the moment. So, I'm getting kind of blase about mafia. I apologize.

Also, VoD, you made me feel tremendously predictable.