Mini 543 - Election Day - Game Over!

[Holy]

OK.

Holy's top suspect is shanba.

Qman is most certain Shanba is town out of pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of Mgm (who needs prodding btw).

Would either care to explain?

You should re-read Shanba first, before read my post #522 (< it's maybe what Qman meant with WIFOMs :p) + #524 (on page 21) to understand my reason.

"continually undermines herself with WIFOM"

> And what's wrong with it?

Btw, he wasn't responding at all for that. Just say it, if he thinks I'm scummy for it, but what he posted was just a hanging comments. In addition, I don't feel any real scum hunting effort from him 'till now.

[Mgm]

Gorgon (replaces ibaesha)

- first to spot hascow as scum do to WIFOM comment.

Felt Elias was scummie do to Boggzie comments.WIFOM comment about what hascow would do. In regards to the argument between Elias and I he took Elias side Hello Mr. 180 degree turn. Care to explain further?

Didn't offer much for a past few comment. Immunity Arkonas. Now states Elias and I could both be town.

(How many times can you change your mind without really saying anything) and in the next breath states I look town and wasn't so sure about Elias.

Here were my issues with Gorgon. I'm not liking his I think this and change of mind. Unfortunetly he took off and I will most likely not get any answers to my issues on him. As for Shanba I felt when he answer my comments it didn't sound forced and I thought he came off well so he is not at the top of my list anymore.

farside, can you help out and tell us which posts the comments in the post refer to? I remember reading about it, but I'd rather not waste time retracing my steps since we're on the clock.

[Rishi]

Immunity Count

*Mgm – 3 (The Fonz, farside22, Holy)
Shanba – 1 (Qman)

*Would receive immunity if polls opened today.

Not voting: Shanba, Gorgon, Mgm.

Requests to Open Polls: 0

Four votes required to open polls. Election Day will automatically occur April 7 (may be pushed back) at 11pm EST.

Still seeking replacement for Gorgon.

[farside22]

@MgM. Here are the 3 post I found from Gorgon that I just found contradictory.

Regarding the farside22/hascow connection, I can agree it appears to be there, kinda. First, farside votes hascow for immunity and gets flak for it, and then later she turns around and votes him, based on 'gut'. Possible distancing indeed. However, in the meantime hascow voted farside22 for immunity, because he 'liked what she had said so far'. Would he really be that obvious?

Granted he was asked about this comment and just kind let it role off. Then he back tracks and says the below statement.

I think farside22 is being very defensive with regards to her supposed connection with hasdgfas. I don't see this as townish behaviour - although defending oneself from accusations is normal, focusing solely on defense is not pro-town.

Of the two arguers, farside and Elias, I think Elias is looking slightly better right now.

Elias looks better? Then bellow he states I look townish.

I still have a fairly townish read on him, although farside and Elias both look okay at the moment. At least they have been very active today, even it's through an argument I haven't been able to follow that well (For some reason I usually find it hard to concentrate when trying to keep up with two people 'bickering' in mafia. I just tend to zone out while reading that kind of stuff. ). Saying that they both look town could be a cheap cop-out, but heck, I'll say it as well.

After a brief reread, farside even reads pretty town to me. Not so sure about Elias, especially because of Boggzie - but he's certainly not uberscummy.

Basically he just goes back and forth. I felt like he was trying to just throw things out there to see what sticks without really doing anything.

[Qman]

I've had very limited time on site as of late, I'm working to catch up now. Making my post on Holy's WIFOM will require a re-read. It's still being worked on.

[Mgm]

@farside, I was actually hoping for post numbers so I could put the whole thing into context.

[Holy]

I've had very limited time on site as of late, I'm working to catch up now. Making my post on Holy's WIFOM will require a re-read. It's still being worked on.

Thank you for your explanation
Btw, are you trusting Shanba just because he was right about some mechanic things?
Although I don't really believe with Shanba's "innocence", but what is it from him that make you think he is pro-town? (maybe I'm just wrong, but I really feel he's not really scum hunting)

I still have a fairly townish read on him, although farside and Elias both look okay at the moment. At least they have been very active today, even it's through an argument I haven't been able to follow that well (For some reason I usually find it hard to concentrate when trying to keep up with two people 'bickering' in mafia. I just tend to zone out while reading that kind of stuff. ). Saying that they both look town could be a cheap cop-out, but heck, I'll say it as well.

After a brief reread, farside even reads pretty town to me. Not so sure about Elias, especially because of Boggzie - but he's certainly not uberscummy.

Basically he just goes back and forth. I felt like he was trying to just throw things out there to see what sticks without really doing anything.

That last quote is from page 18, the same post about his thoughts on lurkers as neutral, followed by accusing opie for not really active since day 2, and ended up with him voting opie.

[Rishi]

Skruffs replaces Gorgon, effective immediately! Yay!

Election Day extended to April 14, 11pm EST.

[Skruffs]

Hey guys! I am replacing gorgon. *hic* I think....

[Holy]

O noez, hi Skruffs!

[Qman]

So two things.

1.) I'll make my promised post tomorrow
2.) I'd like to formally request a one week extension on the election day, so skruffs can catch up. This would mean pushing it back to off all days, tax day, I think.

[Rishi]

So two things.

1.) I'll make my promised post tomorrow
2.) I'd like to formally request a one week extension on the election day, so skruffs can catch up. This would mean pushing it back to off all days, tax day, I think.

I already extended Election Day one week. Did you mean another week?

[Skruffs]

I won't be caught up by the 14th, but I will at least start forming half-assed opinions by the deadline.

[Qman]

So two things.

1.) I'll make my promised post tomorrow
2.) I'd like to formally request a one week extension on the election day, so skruffs can catch up. This would mean pushing it back to off all days, tax day, I think.

I already extended Election Day one week. Did you mean another week?

whoops, hadn't noticed.

[Qman]

OK.

Holy's top suspect is shanba.

Qman is most certain Shanba is town out of pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of Mgm (who needs prodding btw).

Would either care to explain?

Okay for this one I can't point to any one or two posts by Shanba. I think he's been very consistant and level in his arguments and hasn't really pinged much for me. He was straight-forward and explained why the double voter would most likely be town when Holy was saying it was a scum role. He's put pro-town information out there, and has challenged confusing or misleading statements/

All in all he hasn't felt forced to me, and I just get a good pro-town vibe from him. I had a problem with his attitude early Day 2, but that was more a personal dislke for his play than anything else. He's also be pretty good at poking holes in everyones arguments, something I tend to believe is more protown then scummy; as scum you want people confused or playing on false logic.

[Qman]

Somehow true... But that kind of action seems attracting attentions, I still have a doubt that a scum would attract attention like that.

Sure they would, for that exact reason. WIFOM

@Holy:

How would it be pro-town to vote for yourself for immunity?

A townie knew that him/herself is innocents but didn't have insight of his/her other innocents ally, we didn't know who to trust but ourselves of course. I didn't say it was a pro-town move, but he might be just didn't trust anybody at all for now (yes, I doubt scum would do that as the first, but after this whole discussion maybe they might do that someday), that's it.

Scum would do the same thing.

Yesterday, near deadline, around page 9 and 10, I found the wagon was between hasdgfas and Akonas, the possibility of Akonas and hasdgfas lynch was somewhat 50-50 on the air. But with hasdgfas himself (that turned out indeed was the mafia) supporting the Akonas lynch and then with his vote history on Akonas, I don't think that Akonas is the mafia because the high probability that Akonas's the one who might be lynched with hasdgfas' vote-to-lynch effort contribution.

Distancing? I understand we now know Akonas was a cop but at the time this was WIFOM.


Noticing on a re-read Holy makes a lot if “I suspect this person, but I’m not sure. I’m might change my mind/be convinced otherwise posts.” A lot of waffling and willingness to listen, but she doesn’t really stand firm on her own cases either.

Hm, quite interesting case from farside there. If Opie couldn't answer satisfyingly, I might end-up with voting him today. Farside's right, Opie seems like just following people along so far. With this, if Opie turned out scum, maybe I'm wrong about Shanba, I guess.

Waffle more. More than anything your language use bothers me up to now, you use a lot of fence riding phrases.

Then she comes out of the gate with the Open Polls because of a vote move, reasoning it must be MGM, because her vote was moved off him.

LOL! XD

Allright, I don't need a confession, I'm pretty sure Mgm is scum.

Open Polls

Obviously, yesterday lynch tendency was on Mgm or Opie, and last night my Vote was bought by the Politician, which I believe that a Politician means scum.

We are now 5 townies VS 2 scum, so I need all the townies to co-operate because now I know that the scum can buy a vote. And if anyone thinks that a vote bought to take down Opie and saved Mgm didn't means Mgm is scum, tell me right now of why.

Yes, I noticed that although my vote not bought by the politician, Opie still lynched with 1 vote difference, but it didn't change the fact of yesterday tendency and our clueless result might be.

She then rereads and pulls back on the above, after people explain why the vote mover is almost certainly a pro town role. The long term full game fence sitting bothers me, and there are other moments of WIFOM I didn’t pull. It might just be her playstyle, but if feels to me like Holy straddles the fence for a while, then comes down on one side, the gets back on it, then goes for the other side.

[Holy]

Somehow true... But that kind of action seems attracting attentions, I still have a doubt that a scum would attract attention like that.

Sure they would, for that exact reason. WIFOM

That just careless in my eyes. Fine, it happens, the careless scum would, but a good scum gain it from others willingly without much controversy from their 'good' appearance' on townies eyes.

@Holy:

How would it be pro-town to vote for yourself for immunity?

A townie knew that him/herself is innocents but didn't have insight of his/her other innocents ally, we didn't know who to trust but ourselves of course. I didn't say it was a pro-town move, but he might be just didn't trust anybody at all for now (yes, I doubt scum would do that as the first, but after this whole discussion maybe they might do that someday), that's it.

Scum would do the same thing.

So would a townie. Do you have anything more than this repetitive of 'who would do what' things? Why don't you brought that up before, why do you wait 'till now to "discuss" it?

Yesterday, near deadline, around page 9 and 10, I found the wagon was between hasdgfas and Akonas, the possibility of Akonas and hasdgfas lynch was somewhat 50-50 on the air. But with hasdgfas himself (that turned out indeed was the mafia) supporting the Akonas lynch and then with his vote history on Akonas, I don't think that Akonas is the mafia because the high probability that Akonas's the one who might be lynched with hasdgfas' vote-to-lynch effort contribution.

Distancing? I understand we now know Akonas was a cop but at the time this was WIFOM.

It didn't feels like an intentional distancing

when I reading

the arguments between them. It's proven now.

Noticing on a re-read Holy makes a lot if “I suspect this person, but I’m not sure. I’m might change my mind/be convinced otherwise posts.” A lot of waffling and willingness to listen, but she doesn’t really stand firm on her own cases either.

Because I don't have the scum knowledge, duh! On day 1 and day 2, not much I can learn about each player to find out which likely is the scum from their behaviour, certainty without knowledge is foolish.

Hm, quite interesting case from farside there. If Opie couldn't answer satisfyingly, I might end-up with voting him today. Farside's right, Opie seems like just following people along so far. With this, if Opie turned out scum, maybe I'm wrong about Shanba, I guess.

Waffle more. More than anything your language use bothers me up to now, you use a lot of fence riding phrases.

Fence riding phrases are MS scumtell, right... I forgot about that. Please forgive this stupid clueless townie ;_;

NO! I JUST

haven't learned much about Opie, I did my re-read before I voted, I've reached my conclusion if Opie-case was so wrong, although my vote history didn't really help me there to convince anybody.

Then she comes out of the gate with the Open Polls because of a vote move, reasoning it must be MGM, because her vote was moved off him.

LOL! XD

Allright, I don't need a confession, I'm pretty sure Mgm is scum.

Open Polls

Obviously, yesterday lynch tendency was on Mgm or Opie, and last night my Vote was bought by the Politician, which I believe that a Politician means scum.

We are now 5 townies VS 2 scum, so I need all the townies to co-operate because now I know that the scum can buy a vote. And if anyone thinks that a vote bought to take down Opie and saved Mgm didn't means Mgm is scum, tell me right now of why.

Yes, I noticed that although my vote not bought by the politician, Opie still lynched with 1 vote difference, but it didn't change the fact of yesterday tendency and our clueless result might be.

She then rereads and pulls back on the above, after people explain why the vote mover is almost certainly a pro town role. The long term full game fence sitting bothers me, and there are other moments of WIFOM I didn’t pull. It might just be her playstyle, but if feels to me like Holy straddles the fence for a while, then comes down on one side, the gets back on it, then goes for the other side.

If Akonas didn't clear him, I'm still pretty sure if Mgm is scum. My bad... :p
I prefer to consider all the probabilities, not shutting down any possibilities. I'm still saying my opinions and not staying quiet/being unreadable. I know nothing about a Politician-role in Mafia, a real Politician

in general

usually dirty

(consequences of walking in politic career)

, when I was objected about how wrong it might be (I'm not free from human mistakes ), so, I reconsider my thinking, searched about it and found out if I was wrong with my generalization. Thanks to mscumB.swf from MBF :p

[Skruffs]

Hmm.

[Shanba]

Hi guys, I got prodded twice, sorry about the inactivity.

Qman, Holy - are either of you actually going to be convinced of my innocence/scumminess by arguing with each other? If not, there's no point arguing and it will simply act as a smokescreen.

Skruffs - what is hmmworthy?

Holy - if you were to lynch me and I turned up town, who would be your next top suspect? How likely do you think that is? How confident are you that MGM is indeed clear? What about a godfather roleHi guys, I got prodded twice, sorry about the inactivity.

Qman, Holy - are either of you actually going to be convinced of my innocence/scumminess by arguing with each other? If not, there's no point arguing and it will simply act as a smokescreen.

Skruffs - what is hmmworthy? Are you scum? If so, how dare you betray me!

Actually, considering I'll probably end up at your throat regardless, you may as well be scum...

Holy - if you were to lynch me and I turned up town, who would be your next top suspect? How likely do you think that is? How confident are you that MGM is indeed clear? What about a godfather role?

Fonz - you said Elias played a pro-town game. What did he do that was pro-town? How do you think Qman's argument with Holy works with your assessment of his play? Why are you not pseudo-voting yourself?

[Holy]

Qman, Holy - are either of you actually going to be convinced of my innocence/scumminess by arguing with each other? If not, there's no point arguing and it will simply act as a smokescreen.

We're arguing each other because he thinks I'm teh scum :p

Btw, arguing is okay, but all he did was quoting me and labeling it with 'WIFOM' without much elaboration about his suspicion (for my wording or behaviour?) to the quoted posts.
I've argued about the self-immunity vote on day 1 and accept it as a null-tell in the process, but no, he chose to quote it solely, perhaps for a bigger effect.

Holy - if you were to lynch me and I turned up town, who would be your next top suspect? How likely do you think that is? How confident are you that MGM is indeed clear? What about a godfather role?

I'm pretty sure (at least 85%) you would turned up scum :p
Watching Qman's crap-case, I guess, it would be Qman. Farside's case against me today was far much better, it has her opinion there.
Hm, at least QB was okay in my eyes, better than Mgm, I haven't think about the godfather, but remembering QB and Akonas' result, I don't mind giving the benefit of the doubts to Mgm.

But I must admit, Skruffs/Gorgon/ibaesha are quite vague for me, not much can be read from them to understand more, Skruffs you need to elaborate your

"Hmm."

, please ;_;

[Mgm]

Please do, Skruffs, I'd like to get a read on you.

[Qman]

@Skruffs a little more than a "hmm" please

@Shanba I'm pretty sure you are town, I don't see that changing in the near term. I'm hoping to keep you from being lynched because I think it's a bad lynch.

@Holy, so my case on you, and my belief you are scum, would make you think I'm scum if shanba turned up town? Interesting.

[Skruffs]

I Will elaborate on the HMM later, I was just realizing the extend of hte rules on this game. I think hte whole 'vote for immunity' thing is neat, but it's more of hte other players in the game that are the basis of it. STill, I am keeping notes, and will update you guys soon. (Lots of stuff going on)

[Rishi]

Prodding The Fonz and farside22.

[farside22]

Hi all I'm back. I would appreciate if Skruffs you could just read my notes I made about Gorgon and see if you can answer the comments I made about him.
@Qman: I'm not really seeing your case against Holy. The whole WIFOM is not as much as you made it out. She did ask you why you didn't bring up the comments earlier which you neglected to mention. We only have a few days. I didn't see anyone else really have there top votes up. Please post your top suspects and why. Top 2 or 3 whatever you have.
One thing since reading everything and I agree with Qman in one respect for now that Mgm has nothing to worry about putting out who we would give immunity to also helps us finding scum. So if you have people you really think of as town I would suggest someone besides Mgm.

unimmunity Mgm
Immunity: The Fonz

After my argument with Elias and a few things that the Fonz has stated I feel he is one of the few people who I see as a town player. He is dogging issues and pressing points well.

Vote: Skruff or Qman