Not Quite Normal -- The Monastery

[Lukewarm]

Right, so who's the bad one?

Not it!!

VOTE: Mastina

Currently trying to get caught up in the main thread, will be back here later

[Lukewarm]

Oof what happened with T3

[Lukewarm]

Hello -- should we be talking in here ?

[Lukewarm]

It just seems so quiet

[Lukewarm]

I am not really sure.

I have never actually played in a large game before, or in a multiball game before, so that is fun.

How sure are you that there is a scum in this PT?

Alignment assignment had a random element; as a result, the setup may break certain common assumptions, such as the idea that a neighborhood cannot be composed entirely of members of the same scumteam.

For example, if I rolled a neighborhood composed entirely of members of the same scumteam, I would not have a problem with that, given that I have now warned you about the possibility.

Cephir seems to have made a point of telling us not to start with assumptions on that

[Lukewarm]

Peta is weirding me out. I think if he was online when T3 slipped and town, he'd have been more active in the thread. If they are indeed aligned, I bet he was raging in the scum PT and managed to [mostly] restrain himself in the main thread, but I am picking up on some frustration geared towards T3. Hard to say for sure if it's just sloppy newbie condescension or "bastard ruined my team's chances" frustration.

I will look back over Peta and get back to you

[Lukewarm]

Looking at Peta, it feels like he is too sure too early that T3 should be the elim. Which is like the opposite of what I thought about Titus, but personally, I was conflicted so it seems strange to see both talking with such certainty

Specifically posts 131 168

[Lukewarm]

50/50

Meaning

There is

or there isn't.

Yeah, I got you

[Lukewarm]

How're you doing Luke

Currently cooking pasta!

[Lukewarm]

I am back, and caught up again.

I am wary of both Morph and Unwnd right now, but don't think they are a team.

Multiball + 22 players are combining to make this hard for me to try and sort everyone I think.

[Lukewarm]

speculation: this design might be monks and masons for big kids.

Any thoughts on this post seeing that we are the monks?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _and_Monks

[Lukewarm]

Like, does that mean that they have to be masons for them to make that guess?

[Lukewarm]

If they flip as mafia, then that will instantly up my suspicion on both of you because that would mean that they got the monk/mason info from out pt.

If they flip werewolf, then that means that there is a werewolf in the masons.

[Lukewarm]

What the fuck is happening in the thread right now?

[Lukewarm]

Oh with the unwnd/Echo stuff? I think it's mostly shitposting.

Yeah, but it went on for too long imo

[Lukewarm]

speculation: this design might be monks and masons for big kids.

Any thoughts on this post seeing that we are the monks?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _and_Monks

Like, does that mean that they have to be masons for them to make that guess?

If they flip as mafia, then that will instantly up my suspicion on both of you because that would mean that they got the monk/mason info from out pt.

If they flip werewolf, then that means that there is a werewolf in the masons.

Any thoughts wrt to Morph's guess here?

[Lukewarm]

Like, does that mean that they have to be masons for them to make that guess?

No, it's a fairly common open setup that goes back a long time, and there are enough hints from the OP and the various claims out in the open for anyone to make a conclusion like that.

What claims do you think would lead to that conclusion?

I did not see anyone making any claims along those lines.

(although, you are right that there were a couple comments from Cephir about neighborhoods)

[Lukewarm]

Oh with the unwnd/Echo stuff? I think it's mostly shitposting.

Yeah, but it went on for too long imo

You haven't seen anything yet, with some of these combinations of players. The Ydrasse/Pooky/unwnd/[others I'm forgetting atm] crowd are notorious for shitposting in seemingly impossibly large waves.

I guess so.

I was actually in another game with all of Pooky+Unwnd+Ydra before, and it never got to that point, so still surprised me this game I guess

[Lukewarm]

I'm not thinking about timeline rn, so this may not add up, but off the top of my head there's the werewolf miller claim.

I am pretty sure we have a werewolf miller claim and a mafia miller claim

(or at least someone who said that they are revealed to have a gun during investigations)

I guess I was just unsure what about miller claims = Monks and Masons

But this could make some sense

But the fact the game is explicitly multiball, if you're familiar with site meta/history, would lead most to thinking along those lines first, I should think.

@Mastina, you have more experience with the site history then me. Do you think that multiball would reasonably lead to someone thinking we are in a monks and masons set up, or do you think it is more likely that they had some extra knowledge there (either being in the masonry themselves or being scum partners with someone in a masonry)

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

Game is moving fast. I check as carrying a gun.

I am Werewolf Miller.

Putting these here for easy reference

Vaxkiller claimed mafia miller (I think that is what that would mean)

Kdowns

Ytham claimed werewolf miller

[Lukewarm]

Also, Shelby. Any thought on this:

just realized that based on the setup info ceph absolutely could have created a werewolf miller that is mafia-aligned, lmao

guess i have to actually read the miller claims on play, that's so annoying though

[Lukewarm]

Wait. Shelby, you are an account made in 2014, but with 0 games played?

[Lukewarm]

Is this an alt that you made, and just never used?

You seemed pretty up on "site meta and history" lol

[Lukewarm]

Last question on the alt status :: have you and I played a game together with you playing on another account?

I am not trying to figure out your identity here, (and I don't want to know what game it was or anything), I just would like to know if you are starting off with more info on me then I have on you.

[Lukewarm]

Is Mastina ever going to show up? :oops::oops:

[Lukewarm]

[Lukewarm]

ebwop lmao

[Lukewarm]

I uh, think that was more a "Arceus Dammit you are a hood magnet" than a "Press X to Doubt"

If that is the case, I would say that I generally believe you guys are in a hood, and lowkey assumed you were in one since post 14 lol

Can I talk to you without contributing to waryiness now or are we still shrodinger's cat read?

I am much less wary of you now, yes. I would say I am currently tentatively town reading you guys now.

A concern of mine has actually completely vanished recently (no, I won't be telling you what that was )

By the way, that concern was that I was worried that you and Morph might be aligned lol

Your reaction to post 27 did not sit well with me.

But, since they are now claiming to be in the mason chat with Manatee, it is impossible for the two of you to be aligned <3

[Lukewarm]

Man, I was ready to be the town hero, bringing 2 members of the mafia down at once, but now you are probably both just town. smh

(both meaning morph and shelby -- no idea whats up with Mastina)

[Lukewarm]

Hi Mastina

The main thread is on page 74, so like... my condolences on trying to get caught

[Lukewarm]

Important claims that you might miss if you dont read:

Ythan has claimed a werewolf miller
Vaxkiller has claimed that they investigate as having a gun (which I took to functionally be the mafia miller, but ythan somewhat disagrees)

Morph has claimed to be a Mason, and that Manatee is also a Mason (manatee has not confirmed yet).
Morph has also claimed that manatee has been scummy in the pt

[Lukewarm]

Meant, if you don't read *everything* which is understandable

[Lukewarm]

T3 also claimed lots of things

Orginally joke claimed being an informed miller (apparently a call back joke specifically for titus)
Walked that back as a joke
Got ran up to e-2, claimed Loyal Babysitter
Morph said that Cephir would never put that role in this game
T3 said that was mod influence, and repped out.

Dann took his slot and claimed VT

[Lukewarm]

Vaxkiller has claimed that they investigate as having a gun (which I took to functionally be the mafia miller, but ythan somewhat disagrees)

Having a gun is a miller to a Gunsmith, which there's any number of town roles that could be.

I understand the distinction there, but I guess seeing Vaxkiller's claim and Ythan's claim back to back led me to assume that our "mafia cop" was just a gunsmith this game, and so vax was functionally the mafia miller.

Maybe that is a bad assumption, but that was my first thought seeing both claims

[Lukewarm]

Other thing is that like half of the anons this game have revealed already, so if that will influence your reads:

Posieden = Noraa
Zeus = Momregal / Artemiana
Hades is still anonymous tho

And Echolocation = Ydrasee

[Lukewarm]

Oh, and Kakeguri Addicts includes MariaR

[Lukewarm]

I chuckled at your opening post lol

[Lukewarm]

I personally am in the camp that T3 (and now Dann) is scum.

Like I could kinda swallow the first claim, and the "fake" pt slip both coming from town T3 just fucking around, but

the second fake claim while getting run up + the frustration at "mod influence" + the rep out all pushed me over the line of that.

And then looking at Dann, he generally feels pretty good, but I just get a vibe that he is trying really hard to come across as perfectly fine with (and even advocating) him being the day 1 elim, but then under the surface he is looking for someone else to shift the elim to.

[Lukewarm]

And then looking at Dann, he generally feels pretty good, but I just get a vibe that he is trying really hard to come across as perfectly fine with (and even advocating) him being the day 1 elim, but then under the surface he is looking for someone else to shift the elim to.

And my worry here is not hat he doesn't want to be the elim, because I understand not wanted to get miselimed if you are a townie, but it feels like he is trying to hide that he feels that way, which seems scummy to me

[Lukewarm]

I retract everything I said about vax's gun claim now lmao

[Lukewarm]

I thought it was funny, because I did in fact post this exact thought in this neighborhood at first lol

[Lukewarm]

Maybe "conclusion" was too strong of a word to use at the end there, but it was more like, put enough doubt on my own read to be willing to avoid the eim today. My first pass of saying "Dann's chances of being town go up" is probably more accurate.

I feel like, in general, I use much stronger / more definitive language then I ever really mean.

------

I was mainly more focused on figuring out why the hell Ythan was set on saying that "scum are trying to save Dann, then confirmed Mafia Rolecop" but then also adverse to me paraphrasing that as the Mafia was trying to save Dann.

Like, was he trying to leave the door open to say that the Werewolves were saving the mafia rolecop, that the malefactor was? ---

And him putting shade put on Morph specifically as the person trying to save the Mafia Rolecop, when we know that Morph cannot be Mafia and Morph cannot be the malefactor

[Lukewarm]

Ythan's thoughts and points around that time really do not make sense to me

[Lukewarm]

Like, if he thinks that T3's slip was genuine, and that T3 is in fact the Mafia Rolecop -- why is he adverse to saying that the mafia is the ones who would want to save him?

And then, if he does think that Morph is just trying to "scrape together a case" to save Dann, then doesn't that imply that Dann is a Werewolf, and that T3's slip was in fact bullshit?

-----

It feels like he is trying to attack the Manatee wagon from 2 different, incompatible directions at the same time

[Lukewarm]

Yay for the manatee wolf flip

Morph is like confirmed town now, but also almost certainly dead without a doc save

[Lukewarm]

Is anyone worried they are not going to make it through the night?

[Lukewarm]

I don't know that any of us are priority targets currently, but I think that if any of us were to die it would be Shelby??

[Lukewarm]

Thoughts on the accusation of Manatee being partnered with Vecna?

[Lukewarm]

[Lukewarm]

Is anyone worried they are not going to make it through the night?

I mean if any of us three were to get shot it'd be you--I've barely been in the game, Shelby is low-presence, you're the only one who's obvtown, so I'd be shocked if anyone among us died unless it were you.

Sadly, I've no way to prevent a death in here or protect morph who're obviously going to die sooner rather than later.

I feel like Shelby has been out making pushes and stuff.

I think I am pretty widely town read, but also not doing much I don't think?

I feel like I have more been fighting a scum read on Morph, and then when I finally ended up with a town read on them sheeping them lol

[Lukewarm]

Thoughts on the accusation of Manatee being partnered with Vecna?

I didn't get a chance to read morph's posts but I didn't understand the pairing with Vecna. I got why Manatee was scum from the case; that was self-apparent and very very obvious. I don't really get why Vecna's a partner from the case though, at least what I saw.

The perspective slip that Morph accused Manatee of making was specifically when talking about Vecna, so I guess the question is whether you think it really was a perspective slip or not.

I am still a bit unsure, and mainly voted Manatee for their response to the accusation

[Lukewarm]

I am in the middle of going back to look at how other people responded to the Morph accusation, will update you later

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I have sorted the reactions as follows

Loudly against a Manatee vote:
Ythan
The Resistance

Did not seem to like the case, but did not loudly stand up against it:
Vecna
Petapan

The Kazyan tier:
Kazyan

Agree with the case, but in a way that I could see it coming from a partner:
Unwnd
Celestials
Wheme

Agreed with the case in a way that I do not think could come from a partner:
Kakeguri (probably the least certain one on if they should be in their category, or the one above it
Dann
Anya
Pooky
Echo


Mechanically could not partnered with Manatee, all all ended up agreeing with it lol:
Mastina
Shelby
Me <3

[Lukewarm]

The Kazyan tier:
Kazyan

I think his reaction looked the most like a partner tbh.

Started out lightly against it, without saying they were hard against to. Instead seemed to pseudo-shade Morph.

Then when it became clear that Manatee was gonna be the elim, their tone changed a lot, to the point of trying to get someone to hammer it

[Lukewarm]

Sure is dead in here

[Lukewarm]

I have been thinking about something ever since Manatee flipped....I think Manatee's ability will make my ability seem super scummy if I ever have to claim. :/

Like, I know that I probably don't really have to worry about it in the near future, but like if we walking into like day 5 or something, and there is a mass claim....

I have been debating just going ahead and sharing it here to try and preempt that in some way. I guess? Maybe?

Like, is it better for me to say it now, and you guys can back it up that I said it now while under no pressure?

Almost, the same reasoning why a miller claims in their first post I guess?

[Lukewarm]

Anyways, here it goes:

I am also 1-shot bulletproof, and I feel like if I ever claim people are going to assume that means I am actually the mafia mirror to Manatee

Like:

Werewolf

1-shot bulletproof mason <- Manatee

Mafia

. . . 1-shot bulletproof monk . <- What people will now be expecting

Town

. . . 1-shot bulletproof monk . <-

What I am

[Lukewarm]

Well, I am glad you asked because I did not notice that distinction on my role pm.

I looked back, and it does say mafia kill but I kinda assumed I knew what bulletproof meant >.<

[Lukewarm]

The mod's answer to this question was that bulletproof does not apply to the werewolves' factionall kill.

So why was a mafia member bulletproof, then?

A good question that I have my theory about!

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

Want to share the theory in here?

[Lukewarm]

Based on how my ability is worded, I do not think it would protect from a vigilante kill.

[Lukewarm]

So, I think that it is actually more that the abilities were assigned with a random element (which Ceph actually said in the op)

[Lukewarm]

they thought that mastina might be werewolf

hey, I think morph might be wrong about this one

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, I don't think anyone currently doubts you are a monk lol

[Lukewarm]

We should figure something out for shelby, but I feel like we are good to wait til tomorrow, since we would have to both die tonight for it to be an issue

And since I am immune to the Mafia kill, so they would have to perfectly line it up ww kill on me, mafia kill on you lol

[Lukewarm]

lmao

[Lukewarm]

Happy birthday!

[Lukewarm]

I guess Mastina is claiming malefactor? If true, murder Wheme

I really don't think that is what she is softing -- I have a different guess lol

its not and its funny vecna is twisting a pretty clear soft.

-Mister Ocean

I think they got there lol

[Lukewarm]

...I guess I've missed a lot.

I just got home today from a camping trip, and obviously there's a lot I have to catch up on. Hopefully between the 3 of us (assuming we're all still alive in here?) I'll have an easy enough time re-integrating into the game come daybreak. But! there's no way I'm doing any reading til tomorrow. Cheers!

We are all 3 still alive atm -- could change by the start of Day 3, so we shall see

[Lukewarm]

Key things that happened (all from memory so forgive me if i get any details wrong)

2 night kills, Morph and Echo
Morph flipped Roleblocker mason
Echo flipped strongman + bulletproof

Mafia

Was confusion on that, because bulletproof only works for the mafia kill, so strange ability for her to have. Best guess is that the abilities were assigned with a random element that did not account for that kind of nonsensical ability

We got 2 eliminations, because **mechanics**

Flipped Spiffeh's slot first, they were a backup roleblocker

mafia

Then Celestial powerhous outed themselves as the 3rd mason, and gave Morph's final reads from during Night 1

Taco claimed to be a WW equivalent of a gunsmith, but refused to say the name of that role, but did say that role blocker would false positive his ability similar to a cop with a gunsmith, which... is weird

Anya claimed Townie (I think, It was an Anya post, so not 100 clear lmao)

Mastina softed being a monk, like about as obviously as you could without coming right out and saying it lol

We then killed the VFP slot, but Cephir has not done that flip yet.

[Lukewarm]

We then killed the VFP slot, but Cephir has not done that flip yet.

VFP slot flipped werewolf gunsmith

So we are currently 3 for 3 on scum flips, and with the crossfire we have 2 dead mafiosos and 2 dead wolves

[Lukewarm]

I can confirm that bulletproof does not stop the werewolf kill

[Lukewarm]

I also don't trust taco though

[Lukewarm]

Vecna and Manatee don't seem like partners to me but I'm not sure off the top of my head what the case there really is.

The main case for manatee+vecna, from what I can tell, is that manatee perspective slipped when asked to town case vecna, and basically said "I don't think that he is a wolf" instead of saying something like "I don't think he is scum" or "I just think he is town."

Morph said that did not make sense, since in the neighborhood, Manatee said that the masons should focus on mafia hunting over wolf hunting, so manatee's thought processes when talking to morph did not make sense.

The morph theory being that Manatee knew that Vecna IS a wolf, and that was the main accusation that manatee was trying to protect Venca from.

------

Someone also said something along the lines of: when manatee made a list of their town reads, then were like person 1 for vibes, person 2 for gut, person 3 for reasons I can't put into words, and Venca because of "actual reason to town read someone"

And they said that scum feel like they need to have a good reason to give a town read to a partner

I cannot find this post anymore, but I distinctly remember it.

Taco spammed the thread a lot day 2, so it makes finding things harder x.x

[Lukewarm]

Wheme's malefactor-miller claim is strange to me because I'm not sure what investigative role would ever return a result like that, especially in multiball. Typically there are going to be Cops and Seers, who return Mafia/Not Mafia and WW/Not WW respectively, and we know there are [several?] gunsmith-related roles, so do we think it's likely there is an investigative role where "Malefactor" would be a viable result?

I don't think that we have a cop tbh

I think our mafia investigative is a gunsmith

---

The leading theory wrt to wheme, is that "miller who investigates as malefactor" means he is just the malefactor

[Lukewarm]

If the first part is about the use of the word "wolf" rather than a more generic "scum", I don't buy it. I'll take another look at Manatee's reads after I finish the full thread catchup and get around to ISOing dead scums. I do remember it being an atrocious post, though, so hopes are high there is some gold to be found.

When Morph made the accusation around the use of the word "wolf." Manatee claimed that it is a common term to generally mean all scum, and that morph was wrong, and that people use it all the time, and that their site before Mafia Scum used "wolf" almost exclusively.

In response, I did a search for the word "wolf" in all of manatee's posts on site, and it was used a grand total of 2 times total before this game started.

Once in 2019, once in 2018. So, manatee does not use the word wolf as a replacement term for scum in general.

[Lukewarm]

I just went back, and did a morph+vecne joint iso, specifically right after Morph makes the case that manatee is a wolf, and I don't think it looks very good for vecna?

It looks kinda like he does not want to encourage, but also does not want to encourage the manatee wagon, but also does not want to seem like he is defending manatee.

He has made a comment that implies that when he gets on, the first thing he does is check the vote counts. So, he checks in at 2547, and suddenly manatee is the leading wagon, and he just does not comment on it, and in stead starts talking about how he wanted a wheme or a kakeguri wagon.

Did not comment on Manatee until asked about that slot directly, and his response was... strange

I think its probably very hard to read Manatee atm. there were some posts of her that really spoke to me. I remember feeling that way. I do not remember what they were. Im pretty sure Its probably documented in my iso in some form.

My gut is usually pretty good.

Is there something damnit in the last ~60 pages on her? Id like to look at some pov's.

And, I am having a hard time understanding how he legitimately gets to this point. He is presenting himself as though he is not caught up, and does not know the case behind the Manatee push, so what leads him to say "its probably hard to read manatee atm" -- If she was obviously townie before now, and he has not read anything recent, what leads to the assumption that she is now somehow hard to read?

Again ^^ this post was before he read the morph case

[Lukewarm]

Then after being forced to read the morph case (like, he did not go look at it on his own, The resistance had to link him to it directly before he commented on it, and he disagrees with it, but in a way that feels like it can be walked back

First response:

-Generally speaking, id be expecting the actual wolf in that neighbourhood to be MUCH MORE inclined to focus heavily on "finding the wolf". Manatee hasnt actually done that, has she? Id be expecting a wolf to be much more keen to be looking like theyre hunting for that wolf, because that is to be expected.
-Given the mod information, going purely by statistics, its much much more likely the hood is a masonry than it actually containing a wolf.
-Did anyone actually look into the meta comparison? Compare emoticon useage? Any response from Manatee?

Ill maybe look into it tomorrow, but on first sight this really doesnt feel like a great reason to kill Manatee. Im probably biased because Ive had a slight townread on the slot, and because im being lumped together with it

In post 2568, unwnd wrote:
I think the day being between Dannflor (regardless of my read) and Manatee is probably the best outcome. Ythan's campaigning is what it is, but if I'm right on Dann then the opposition should show something. If wrong? Then my tinfoil on certain players goes up.

Is your desire for a Manatee wagon based on Morphs read, or do you have individual reasoning?

[Lukewarm]

I also found his first post of Day 2 pretty performative

With how this game has been going so far, you should probably cross-reference it to my townreads and just nuke any matches.

At this point, there have been three flips: Manatee, Morph, and Echo

Manatee flipped werewolf, Morph flipped town, and Echo flipped mafia.

Manatee, he called a "slight town read," he never gave a read on Morph, and he did not mention Echo a single time Day 1.

So, from what I can see, a single "slight town read" flipped scum, and he is talking as though his entire read lists was just

soooo

off the mark

[Lukewarm]

For now though, since I think they're the only two slots I haven't mentioned much here yet: petapan is tricky, I'm trying not to remain tunneled, and nothing he is doing pings me, so this is solidly in my sorting pile for much later. As for Vaxkiller... I don't have a read there at all.

I am terrified of scum!Peta tbh.

----

Vax is another one of the never posters...

The only thing he really has going for him is the fact that he said he investigates as having a fun in his first post of the game, and then a gunsmith flipped

[Lukewarm]

I'm also pretty sure Anya is town

I was leaning town on Anya, but have started second guessing that read.

Specifically our interaction wrt DGB/VFP

She came into day 2 a little late, and what she saw was: Cheeky had already flipped mafia, and DGB was at e-2

She comments on the cheeky flip, saying "i would've pushed spiffecheeky if i was around so just pretend i was guns blazing on that wagon thanks" but then no comment on DGB being at e-2 already

and then instead sheeped dgb's push on vaxkiller.

And then did continued to not comment on the leading wagon until I asked her why she seemed to be ignoring it.

-----

So she has downgraded from a town read, to a null read. If she is scum tho, she would specifically be a werewolf

[Lukewarm]

If you're on I'll try and engage a little more meaningfully with you as well (the same offer extends to mastina!), sorry I was sort of singularly-focused in here today, and I find it hard to do any sort of back-and-forth when I'm not fully informed on the gamestate.

This was good. Even if you were more focused on catching up, I was happy to see your thoughts and comment on them. Much better then Night 1 where I was

lol

[Lukewarm]

Malefactor functions in this game as a bit of a universal scum, in a game where most abilities are separated into specifically for werewolf or mafia. We have abilities that work specifically against mafia and abilities that work specifically against werewolves--and a malefactor counts as both, and thus, a malefactor miller is basically a universal (rather than mafia-specific or werewolf-specific) miller.

I know that malefactor wins with either team, but I do not think we have any reason to think that it "counts as both" for any form of investigatives.

Like, the original sign up said that it was explicitly its own alignment, like a 3rd party alignment

[Lukewarm]

Night 2 ends so late x.x.

I am in bed, and already taken melatonin, so hopefully will be sleeping peacefully by the time the thread opens.

So (hopefully) see you guys in the main thread tomorrow

[Lukewarm]

I am voting taco, incase he is the malefactor faking a guilty, hoping that we vote out Anya first, then vote out Taco netting 2 miselims for the last werewolf.

If we flip Taco first, and he really is a "werewolf-esque gunsmith" then we kill Anya tomorrow, and win anyways

[Lukewarm]

Also, now that the mafia is eliminated, we now know we all all 100% town, which is cool

[Lukewarm]

btw, I lied to both of you night 1 -- I am not bulletproof.

Both of you being mia night 1 left me suspicious of you, and I wanted to make sure that if either of you were mafia, you would not kill me, so I could voice my suspicions in the main thread.

But then day 2 started, and I was less suspicious.

[Lukewarm]

It is probably Anya, but I want to kill Taco.

Like, that is the safer play, and the way he keeps acting like killing him is throwing just makes me want to kill him more

[Lukewarm]

Celestial Powerhouse