LoL eSports Discussion

[mykonian]

Let's be honest here, Flash Wolves are better than KOO right now. So it'd be better if CLG 2-0'd them. This whole Koreans are the only good players bullcrap is actually starting to annoy me.

It might annoy you but despite the flash wolves upset, koo was still a fundamentally good team.

[mykonian]

I see a team possibly getting first place in a group that clg could totally beat...

[mykonian]

Let's be honest here, Flash Wolves are better than KOO right now. So it'd be better if CLG 2-0'd them. This whole Koreans are the only good players bullcrap is actually starting to annoy me.

It might annoy you but despite the flash wolves upset, koo was still a fundamentally good team.

I said nothing!

These games!

[mykonian]

mini china > na

[mykonian]

I'll take the 4 points from that group.

Not sure how pain clg gets resolved if pain wins.

[mykonian]

yaus, 8 points from group 1.

[mykonian]

We had flash wolves make first place in a group!

First day was awesome and exciting. Not strictly good, but hardly boring.

[mykonian]

I think OG has 3 tough matches ahead, hopefully should be able to beat TSM on raw skill alone so that even if shit hits the fan they at least get that game. I think esspecially imp is out for blood from LGD. Last game vs them was hardly a walkover and although I think LGD was better there than in the later games (tilt?), it still wasn't what LGD could do. Anyway, if LGD beats KT, they still have something to play for, so that game is key for origin's score as well, I think. If LGD win that (and that's possibly going to be harder than against origin, KT looks solid, while OG is overperforming and has soaz/peke/mithy on one team). I do not trust mithy to deliver as he has in the long run (hell, even himself doesn't seem to) and as soon as you need a "worlds buff" to explain someone's performance you accept that you actually don't know why he didn't do it in the normal league (and it might just happen again)

But where OG at least can fall back one or the other player stepping up against tsm and make it, I could see c9 lose games as quickly as they won them. The showed one strategy, total, and sneaky can only do so much. Maybe they got more in their bag, but they'll have to show that. I would be rather disappointed if someone in Fnatic hadn't done some good oldfashioned shouting. But that one is going to be fun to see, whether fnatic can turn that around.

[mykonian]

but by who?

You have to find 3 players in NA.

[mykonian]

pffft

poor AHQ, poor taiwan. That was a won game, and they got more or less cheated out of a sure victory, a second 1st place for taiwan.

I can't be too happy about that.

[mykonian]

so who's going to be the one throwing basic sports psychology at the players not actually knowing the rules of the competition (but thankfully the support does)

[mykonian]

hermit and aranea actually seem to know what the possible outcomes are. The actual players don't even know and think they are facing fnatic.

idk, I tended to see it as a bad thing if during a game or a tournament you didn't even understand what was happening in it.

[mykonian]

well there's also the part where they say "hmm, but we are on the same side as skt", "whatever, more money anyway"

[mykonian]

his ult duration lengthens on kills

[mykonian]

I had hoped that with a week to prepare for one opponent, EDG would become better than they had been in the group phase. Shame that didn't happen, I think in that case we might have seen a 2-3. Now though, this is a bit of a disappointment

[mykonian]

^ more proof you aren't EU

Well I think it's fun that they win and all

but I'm still just a spectator. I would like to be entertained, feel excited, marvel at the counter and counter-counter plays etc.

Between that we didn't even get to see the result of the match with gp and morde in it, and edg rolling over and dying in 2 of the 3 matches, idk. I was looking forward to this.

Tomorrow though, could be great. I'm sure koo have something in store and KT got somewhat exposed in the finals vs skt.

[mykonian]

2 EU teams in semis will make an all Korean finals even more disappointing.

idk. Give me 2 5 game semi's and I'm a happy camper.

[mykonian]

there were a set of soaz deaths that were "darien" deaths. Yes he got caught, yes he was overextended, but he did it at a time where the team could afford it. Makes his statline look worse, but were ok plays.

There's also a set that are 50/50 plays. You could argue about those being a good idea.

and then there's the times it just looks bad.


Now I'm not a top tier player, but you might make a case that (probably not calculated, but intuitive) players get greedy right over the edge to see if they can cheat themselves into gaining a small advantage. Sometimes the opponent calls their bluff, sometimes the team is indeed in place to cover it, sometimes it isn't. Faker has this story around him as well, that he's almost asking opponents to call his bluffs, see how much of an edge he can cheat. Because who's not going to give faker some respect?

Now not saying Soaz is faker, but these plays he's been making and the deaths he's had aren't isolated. They are and have always been a constant in his play. And over that time he's been one of Europe's top tier toplaners. All together, maybe you have to start looking for where the payoff for that playstyle is. So maybe the paragraph above makes sense (but how am I supposed to know).

Huni's deaths though, are much more streaky. When he gets behind, he keeps trying to make the same plays and they backfire now and then. It's harder to see a style in that.



Also why I came here: 4/4 in quarterfinal picks! WOO I have the best luck

[mykonian]

well, this will be a whole new challenge.

We can talk about xpeke's worlds buff all we want, but so far he's been able to hold his lane and be a utility, just like in the EU LCS. He has been able to do that vs the likes of godv (lol), nagne (lol), bjergsen (it's still just tsm) and his biggest test was maple. This is going to be entirely something else, whether they put easyhoon up there or faker. Further, xpeke's issues weren't that he was bad overall, it was that he could be taken out of his comfort zone and look bad. He has played 3.5 champions here. Orianna a bunch, a couple of anivia games, some viktor and a tf game. Orianna and tf are known champs for him, viktor he was good on during the season. The new one is anivia and shanba had an insight on that, which I think is right on the mark. This is xpeke's azir. It fills the same slot in the teamcomps and he can play it. But all in all, this is a patch job. Easyhoon mostly, but faker as well, are known azir players. Might play a role, may not, but I have trouble to see xpeke as a new man this world championship given the way he's played in games. It's still the same as in eulcs, soaz is good, mithy has amazing hights and good synergy with amazing, and niels does his job and then some. Xpeke has to stay out of the way and provide utility.

Now wolf vs mithy isn't a contest, but bengi vs amazing clearly is. Even if soaz can hold his own top (and we might just see another lane getting snowballed on him, who knows), the question remains if amazing and xpeke can even get the game to the situation where niels is allowed to carry.

IDK guys, 2 of origin's players can look amazing and can completely drop off, if mithy and soaz have 5 straight amazing games I could see them having a shot, but I feel it takes some miraculous pick bans where skt hold the cards IMO,and them not playing as well as they can for origin to have a shot here. Could happen, but looks seriously hard.

[mykonian]

yes, it's just that the argumentation is a bit easier that way

I don't think xpeke has been amazing. I think he's been quite good at hiding that he's the weak spot. I think bengi is having a great tournament and that he's making his already good team look really amazing.

[mykonian]

cause i've seen people bash Season 1 worlds as not counting.

Clearly season 2 worlds is more alike season 5 than season 1.

Yes as broseidon mentioned, "the west won". The whole top was "the west" because the east had barely been playing the game and was hardly represented. It was a tournament like any other but with the given name of world championship.

So if you are in the church of "the west" (before we forget that even in season 1, na came with the hype, and didn't deliver), praise that there's a line that says that fnatic won the first but lets not talk all that much about it, lest people might actually start discussing it with you.

[mykonian]

Naw, it was the season 1 world championship. Season 1 happened to be when the game was still nascent, and still hadn't caught on in a bunch of places.

Say you had a competition which only Canadian and American teams could participate in. They can call it a worlds series all they like. But would you call them world champions?

[mykonian]

Naw, it was the season 1 world championship. Season 1 happened to be when the game was still nascent, and still hadn't caught on in a bunch of places.

Say you had a competition which only Canadian and American teams could participate in. They can call it a worlds series all they like. But would you call them world champions?

you're asking americans this, we do it in at least three different sports anually

well, that explains it then

[mykonian]

The argument usually boils down to "There were no korean or chinese teams, ergo it wasn't a REAL competition".

Well, consider that after that season 1, china, korea and taiwan had some catching up to do. The west had just more experience.

And yet, no European, nor American team made it to the finals since. You can count their semifinalists including this worlds on one hand.

There seems to be some merit to that argument.

It seems very likely that the only reason there was an all European final in the first "world" championship because the whole world wasn't there to play for that final.

[mykonian]

No, but lets not soil that achievement by pointing to season 1. If either of the teams make it to the final, that would be huge. It's already big that two European teams made it to the semi's, nothing stolen there either.

Say fnatic makes it. I'd say that this would be their best tournament ever. I'd be pretty sad if someone pointed at season 1 in stead then. And that is taking into account that the game simply advances through time, so not just saying that they were more skilled than then (duh) but that this result would have the most value. They are facing the top of the world now, teams that have practiced for years, played through regular seasons and playoffs and who all try to peak at this moment.

[mykonian]

well the world was a lot smaller

So I feel the less one talks about it the better it is. It looks good in the history books and someday people are going to forget the circumstances.

Again, I think season 2 is much more similar to season 5 in terms of setup and quality etc than season 2 is to season 1. Worlds changed through the years obviously, but the big gap is between season 1 and 2.

[mykonian]

someone spoke before his turn.

[mykonian]

gosh, bro, you are so clever

where did you learn that???

[mykonian]

doesn't look like the gods can bleed (yet).

I don't think skt have at any point really been unable to control the game, and in game 1 a lot of things went OG's way. I don't see what they could improve to make it work for a game.

[mykonian]

The Koo/Fnatic semi will decide the MS Pick 'em - if Fnatic wins, then my my reckoning, it'll be a tie between me and Myko for first, if Koo win, Myko wins outright. Fnatic win pls.

sorry izzy, I wouldn't mind sharing the victory with you, but it's not looking good

[mykonian]

Is no one watching this or something?

cool people watch in scumchat

[mykonian]

man.

I was really hoping that we wouldn't see a one-region final again. Sad day.

Again?

shrug, chinese, korean, they all look the same to me!

Either way, I can't be too sad. I think KOO will show up. I don't think they'll tilt if they lose a game, they'll have a plan for the next one and the one after. They were the best team today and hell, for the storyline alone this is great. They've taken revenge for their performance at msi, but if they are competative players and even if they know the score (skt is stronger) they have to know you don't get opportunities like this often. They'll have some good comps, some wacky ideas, and I think they'll pull out everything to properly test skt. KOO may be one of the more exciting teams that could attempt that.

[mykonian]

you hope to get close finals on one side and we didn't.

Also re easy groups and saving strats: look at fnatic. They get a taiwanese team (w/e), the 7th na team (and the region wasn't looking any good) and the clearly worst chinese team (if you judge beforehand).

Somehow after the first week they are no longer in the position to hide their kennen. That could have been a powerful trick in a bo5. Fnatic couldn't manage to get default wins. They don't have the champions that you can just put them on and know they will carry the game. You couldn't hand over lulu to skt, couldn't give them fiora, couldn't give them kalista, or even elise. If you did, that player was very likely to take over the game. That's not just that they got it easier, it's also that they are better and that they deliver clean performances.

[mykonian]

So I remember the last team I really liked etc (gambit), weren't my team anymore when alex left. It just wasn't the same. They were bad before and bad after, but with him leaving it lost it's charm for me. I wonder how TSM fans feel now. Do they give up on it? Or are they so cynical to go with the argument that bjergsen was all tsm had anyway? Would they feel some misplaced loyalty to the TSM brand?

[mykonian]

So I remember the last team I really liked etc (gambit), weren't my team anymore when alex left. It just wasn't the same. They were bad before and bad after, but with him leaving it lost it's charm for me. I wonder how TSM fans feel now. Do they give up on it? Or are they so cynical to go with the argument that bjergsen was all tsm had anyway? Would they feel some misplaced loyalty to the TSM brand?

It's about being the fan of a franchise and what it represents, not a player.

misplaced loyalty it is!

[mykonian]

It's literally impossible for them to be known imports, though. There's a maximum of 2 imports per team. Bjergsen counts as American by being grandfathered in, but even if they import two more players, they'll be short 2 and have to invest in NA talent. If that comes from another team, then THAT team needs new players. One way or another the orgs are going to have to promote local talent, the numbers just don't work any other way. C9 is in a similar situation.

There'll definitely be a couple of Koreans, that's just the way of things now, but regardless the region lock prevents it just being Korea b league (or C league, after China I guess). I guess the worst case scenario is something like, TSM and C9 steal the best players of the weaker teams, then those weaker teams import players to hold the positions that were gone?

Edit: WTH I swear there was a post I was replying to here, not just repeating myself for no reason.

what is this post?

[mykonian]

There's a reason that the US is fairly dominant across a wide range of things (most sports included).

most expensive doping.

[mykonian]

I cry. As long as Aphromoo and DL stay on CLg though they'll probably remain my favorite team.

We'll see, C9 and/or Renegades look very interesting as well. I'm interested if C9 will keep Balls, and who they will replace Lemon and Hai with. Renegades and the team being built by Meteos both look like interesting teams coming up.

but rejoice, Freeze is trying out for TSM!

Now if only we managed to ship our star european jungler, winner of a eu split over as well... With shook, bjergsen and freeze, you'd get a mini copenhagen wolves in NA!

[mykonian]

I want to see Sven on TSM honestly.

well, eh, yes! Same with freeze. I think my tone doesn't carry here.

No matter how you look at it, TSM have a legacy at this point. They are supposed compete for the NA championship, anything less is unacceptable. And sure, that doesn't have to happen with Americans. Bjergsen was a prodigy of sorts and getting him was an inspired move. Lustboy was an arrived player, brought the experience the team may have needed in that position.

But you have to be extremely cynical to see the adc of the autorelegated team in EULCS fit for TSM, and in a same way the jungler of the other relegated team.

[mykonian]

yes that is a curious post. I don't know what I was thinking, or why your quote is there.

[mykonian]

they have had a lot of success with it. It's a dated comp for them that they did take a lot of games with.

[mykonian]

top 0.038% pickem.

That'll do

[mykonian]

TSM Doublelift confirmed.

RNG WildTurtle please god?

must your love for TSM imply hating the other teams?

[mykonian]

TSM Doublelift confirmed.

RNG WildTurtle please god?

must your love for TSM imply hating the other teams?

What? I want RNG to do well! I really like RNG!

I think Turtle would fit well there.

You cannot like a team and wish wildturtle upon them

[mykonian]

WildTurtle is a top tier ADC who has a ton of experence.

But he's a known quantity with obvious flaws that he could not fix in all those years!

[mykonian]

So? Who is this perfect ADC RNG could pick up?

They have two arrived players who know how shit works. They have no pressure at all going into the league, nobody expects a championship out of them. There's nothing stopping them for trying to find someone new and hoping they find someone they can work with who can and wants to learn.

Old players rarely have a resurgence, they peak and they fall off. Sure RNG could get turtle, but you cannot see that as a permanent solution. He's not going to get better anymore.

[mykonian]

Yup, Freeze to RNG. Freeze + Remilia could be scary as fuck.

Also, Ganked By Mom is confirmed by JAG to be playing in the NALCS next split - given that I don't think any teams are in the market for a midlaner, him being TSM's new top holds some water...

We talked a bit about the next split in scumchat, and idk, it smells like a liquid move. I don't know why they would want to drop fenix, but if you could get GBM...

[mykonian]

let him become GBM

He's playing in NA! You can't expect miracles in that environment.

[mykonian]

This is going to be awesome!

TSM have this amazing image. Lets not deny, you can like how they play or not, they aren't the most cozy or pleasant org. And they signed doublelift, America's nr1 dick! But we aren't done yet, this team needs more hatefulness. TSM svenskeren fits the picture perfectly. Say, get xpecial for support, apparently cris is the most toxic toplaner in NA, and you'll have a team full of people shouting at bjergsen and alienating TSM fans.

I cannot wait. Make this happen.

[mykonian]

Ya, it's called the USA population

Uh, no. TSM sucks ass. C9 for life.

You fucking commie.

[mykonian]

lol @ people in the TSM roster announcement thread trying to say Hauntzer isn't top western talent.

Dude was the 3rd best top laner in NA last split.

that was so the wrong moment to use western

What use is it if he's 3rd in NA when he'd be 10th or so in the west? Suppose we don't even count the imports, then you'd still have soaz, zorozero, odoamne, wicked, fredy, czacsi, cabochard, zion, at least who talentwise are probably his betters.

I have no clue what sven does on this roster though. He lost to G2. Got relegated. Why the hell does the team that always plays for the championship want that guy. Hauntzer is serviceable and with bjergsen and doublelift that's probably all you want from toplane. Kasing got worlds experience, but might have had the perfect roster for him. Maybe that works out. But sven, idk man. That cannot have been the best option available.

[mykonian]

suppose that team played last worlds. Do you think they'd have made it out of groups?

Idk, it's fine for NA, but these aren't world beaters. Like maybe on just doublelift/bjergsen's talent they go to a championship, but I'd have to see it.

[mykonian]

well, the core message is the same. Xpeke just has trouble letting go.

[mykonian]

well, we aren't talking grownups here. It's a question if doublelift/bjergsen can carry. We don't know yet. That team might explode, despite the managements best efforts.

[mykonian]

I don't get why you people are complaining about the talent in NA. Look at that stacked roster. Moon has shown great promise, impact and GBM are very talented players, altec is young and hungry (and again in a team that speaks korean, please, learn )

Also kindly remember coast for what they are. The team that when they were about to lose their LCS spot, bought up a challenger team that was looking to make it, and shifted their foreign players to there. This is the most bullshit kind of moral high ground they are trying to gain with a tweet like that.

[mykonian]

if only odoamne was a great toplaner. He is good, but he has issues (namely playing from behind/shotcalling from behind). Just a good player. I like Jankos a lot, but in fairness you have to admit he has only one gear. He snowballs the game, or he doesn't. There's no option where he does not make the play in stead provides a warm body in midgame for his team, or roams the map just to make sure his lanes don't get ganked. It is always all in. Maybe, just maybe, he's a bit oldfashioned. I love him, but supportive junglers have been very succesful lately.

How is that better than the already shown (and largely proven) origen, or even tsm's roster?

[mykonian]

H2k, but yes, possibly. I personally would take cabochard over odoamne, but then you'd have to worry who'd be shotcalling, I guess. That's not clear cut anyway. Vizicsacsi also a good option there. Jungle is harder to improve on, my issue with jankos is one of style, not of capability. Maybe it works for the team, maybe it doesn't. Vander has more hype than results, so calling him the best in the west in his position is probably a bit too much. I can think of a couple. The other two, sure, you can go with that.

[mykonian]

Kasing, Vander, and Mithy are all hard to rate. If we were to just go off mechanics/obvious impact, Vander is the best, but it's pretty obvious that Kasing and Mithy both contribute in huge ways that are harder to see (and I don't think Vander does as much).

I don't think this is a fair representation. Also lets not totally forget about yellowstar.

Vander has had some nice hooks, but the fact that his team has been one of the slower going is on him as well. He has been working very hard on vision in his games, iirc he had a big percentage of wards for eulcs teams as well, but also in absolute numbers. I think it's unfair to limit KaSing's impact only in coms or something, his roaming has been very good, H2K's early and mid game did not come from just loulex. And I'm a fan of mithy, but even if I wasn't, I think you have to see him as the main playmaker of origen. When origin looks really good, mithy has been on fire, generally.

And these guys are proven (sorta in kasing's case). All vander has is a nickname from his thresh play.

[mykonian]

yes, doublelift alone turned off one of the staunchest TSM fans I know.

[mykonian]

Given the prevalence of Bo2 in many European sports leagues (specifically soccer…sorry, football), we decided to implement Bo2 format in a region where ties are both understood and accepted in sports culture. In NA, where there’s a regional sport tradition of avoiding ties, we chose to implement Bo3.

ehm, lol?

[mykonian]

that's rather beyond the point, don't you think?

[mykonian]

but the venom over going BO2/BO3 is ridiculous ,even if offering "used to soccer splits" is a lame reason.

I couldn't even care less about bo2 or bo3, but the second part really sets the tone.

It wasn't till I got to the discussion forums on MS that I learned football had a different meaning in the context of an American dominated discussion. And you joke around with it, in the football and the NFL thread and it's an American dominated forum, so it's a topic and such fooling around happens. It's good fun.

However, I don't know why Riot felt the need to reassert that they were American with a similar forced joke in a forced explanation why they'd approach the EU and the NA competition differently. They didn't have to use football as a tool to explain their choice, because it's 90% likely not even part of the real decision, much more likely it has to do with viewer numbers, sponsors, stage limitations etc.

After that, I'm not quite sure what you expect. Riot sets themselves up with a poorly timed overused joke for the suspicion that NA gets preferential treatment. Since that's not the first time that's discussed, it adds to the situation. Mix in two parts NA<v>EU and you get what you see.

[mykonian]

a bit lame?

A BIT LAME?

let me tell you where you can put that hand-egg of yours, zor!

[mykonian]

freeze > piglet.

what a time to be alive.

[mykonian]

It's nice for such an up and coming region to get such exposure, but idk if it's a good idea to run the world championship in a wildcard region. I don't doubt the enthusiasm of the fans, but you know you won't get the same crowds you'd get in a major region.

[mykonian]

Wow. Forgiven just announced he's got to do army duty, nearly in tears. Clearly he's broken up about it. This seems a surprise to the interviewer who was like... "shit... guess i'll just ask the normal questions about how they did well!"

At least Sjokz had the presence of mind to say "uh no... let's not talk about the game"

It's so hard to on the fly say something tactful and Riot approved when a player blindsides you with that.

Sjokz likely had instructions from above to talk about it as opposed to game analysis.

I think the reporter did the best he could in the circumstance.

Doubt it came from above, also seen how she later talked about it. Sjokz isn't new to this, isn't Riot made. You get thrown a curveball like this, it counts to have experience to fall back on. Pulse had nothing but Riot protocol to help him respond to a new situation. I think this is where you get to appreciate Sjokz, more than usual.

[mykonian]

Has NA already lost or are you making sure you've got the excuses ready? I thought NA had one of the favorites for the title. You guys should be a little bit more confident.

[mykonian]

he didn't have a champ pool. Never got one together either. Attempting to find a more flexible top was an easy choice to make imo.

[mykonian]

Soaz sucking in spring split. Who'll call the papers?

This was the issue why old fnatic needed to break up. The old guard (soaz/peke/cyanide) were tournament players, in a same way that m5 used to be. They could go all out in a deep run in a tournament, bite into a BoX series. Week in week out playing 2 games? Not their thing. They didn't finish all that many splits in first place pre-playoff. Somehow they do have a lot of split victories. They need that pressure, the excitement, a real goal. Otherwise they'd coast on quality till playoffs came near. Origin being peke's pet project delayed it for a season, there was some real risk involved, etc. But getting the semis at worlds just reinforces the whole cycle again. All pressure is gone, and it's same old same old.

I think the goal for origin is "making worlds". Which is ages away. I don't think we should be surprised origin isn't looking as good as they looked at worlds. That was the time where you could depend on the same guys peaking. Xpeke redeemed his poor season in that tournament. Not because he was "good". But he clearly rose well about his normal level for just those games. And in a toplane focussed meta, Soaz beat the baddies, only imploded once against the better players, otherwise held his own, was one of the two carries origin brought to the games, because one really could not expect that from peke. But they've shown year after year they cannot play like that all the time. It's not "their level". They drop off, every, single, spring.

What I would love to see, and pray is going to happen, is that origin and vitality make it to the finals. Because Cabo is having a great split and is the top to beat. I think in that scenario if soaz gets wrecked 3 games in a row, you'd have a point. But last split, the finals between origin and fnatic, and mostly the battle of the tops was interesting, given how top heavy the teams were at that time. I think that could be exciting to watch, regardless of how the split has gone.

[mykonian]

Regardless of the result, at 2-2 it's really anyones game.

You guys are clearly haters

[mykonian]

my my LLD, haven't seen you in this thread in a whole split, it feels. Didn't you become an immortals fan this season?

[mykonian]

and Ekko still functions as a bruiser. His stun is tricky, but his slows and base damages make him work.

You could build a frozen heart on caitlyn, it wouldn't make her a tank.

Bruisers being a dominant force is totally unheard of obviously. That never happens.

[mykonian]

He's just not very relevant. He hasn't been relevant in ages. He was the support in a team in the time that you'd put your worst player on support. Which is a long ass time ago. He was coaching for I think half a split where he introduced huddles to his team. Woopie. It's now still that an amount of the coaches are old players that are there to stick around with "esports", he was just an early example of it. This is just more of that. He's probably a very nice guy in person, but I have no clue why anyone should still care about him. I wish he'd just leave.

[mykonian]

ani enjoyed making fun of your typo.

[mykonian]

oh god it's that cycle again. Worlds has past and NA "improves".

[mykonian]

too little of this conversation is about how they lose their playmaker and shotcaller (also the guy who let zven reach his hights). Rip OG indeed.

[mykonian]

was mithy their shotcaller?

lategame, apparently, yes. Amazing did early/mid game stuff with him iirc.

[mykonian]

So they go from creating a superteam of established players to picking up "talent".

There are a couple of ways to look at that, I guess. One could be that since TSM is a succesful org, they'd pick the best players from lesser teams and that way stay succesful. However, halfway the split there aren't any good supports that they can actually buy out so they are stuck and have to pick up someone completely new. I get that they would most likely want a NA support (junglers fall off faster past the top and sven's got to go). Aphro and xpecial are out (those bridges are burned), bunny and matt are probably happy where they are, so you'd be looking at someone like gate? Second is that TSM actually chooses as a strategy to invest in someone new, which idk, is a really quick strategy change in one split. You might even call it whimsical.

[mykonian]

I guess we have different views on the word whimsical.

aww shoot, I did use a dictionary for that one. Picked the wrong word then, I guess

[mykonian]

How these analysts talk about Illaoi bothers me. Occasionally they are clueless

[mykonian]

haven't watched competative lol in ages, but picked some groups anyway!

[mykonian]

doesn't matter that your sololanes lose: mata > TSM

[mykonian]

bjergsen was a disappointment though, that is worrying.

[mykonian]

I have never seen anyone as excited about anything as the girl next to me is about Uzi

(time to drop your morgana, practice your ezreal!)

[mykonian]

I have to be with the cynical owl there, one team was worse, the other lacked any hint of decisiveness to convert their advantage into a victory. The result was a game that had no business dragging on, but did anyway :/

EDIT: I can imagine the crowd was energetic, that could be great.

[mykonian]

me, if it means CLG can't make it through.

you got to see them for 6 games. That's plenty!

[mykonian]

nope you can have him.

[mykonian]

Just to catch the thread up with the lol worlds chat room: dash's tie knot is out of control.

Please join us in the lol worlds chat, I had to sit there as the professional and the gay judged the dresses of everybody on camera. HELP

[mykonian]

guys, two things.

Can we kindly not call Russia EU.
And can we kindly not call ANX M5's successors.

[mykonian]

the 2nd happened out there, dram. The first, nobody important

[mykonian]

So, surely we can bury the closing the gap myth now. NA isn't coming any closer, EU isn't coming any closer. Sometimes you have a better group that gets together, sometimes worse, but at this point you have to see the western regions as plateau'd. Infrastructure is there, there's a league, best of somethings etc. What's missing and what will be missing is a culture and the same competition the major eastern leagues have. To break it youd need a (magical) lineup that comes together and makes it work, or some major overhauls in tournament structure (more international tournaments, not going to happen) and even then a healthy amount of luck. Every year the best NA and EU teams will come to worlds, sometimes one or two makes it out of groups, and they likely won't play for the cup. The gap that might close is the minor regions, who do have infrastructure to catch up on.

Even if C9 at this point pull everything together and jensen bodies everybody, or H2K play on their peak the rest of the tournament and somehow they make the finals and make it close, I don't think you can use that to fuel the myth. Sometimes it's going to go worse, sometimes better, and for those things to happen they'd need a healthy amount of good fortune, hardly indicative of regions strength.

IDK, I can't be the only one who gets tired of hearing yet another hopeful story how this year it's all going to be different. Changing things is hard, it's not going to be different just like that.

[mykonian]

I'm sorry I'm sorry you're right that was rude.

Could you please

kindly

choke on a dick?

There there. It's all going to be alright.

[mykonian]

Yes, but they can't and we saw Rox hang into a game they very behind in (vs ANX) and provide meaningful resistance all along the way. There's no way H2K fixes their issues to the point they can break that consistently.

And regardless, this is something that region is way ahead on year after year. They have been very good at containing losses, good at closing out leads. Individually you find players and teams that can compete (only have to look at the chinese, or people being happy about going even with faker in lane etc), but in decisionmaking consistently nobody has been able to keep up. So now we have a European team, with lovely individual players, a great early game, with poor lategame decisionmaking. "If only they could figure that out".

yes...

[mykonian]

Is it outlandish of me to believe that the NALCS literally does not matter anymore unless/until an NA team wins MSI or places semis or better at worlds? (less so for EU since regardless of their opposition they've won one season and have only missed semis once as a region (S4))

yeah, that's silly. It's like saying the MLS doesn't matter because the premier league, the bundesliga or la liga exists. Sure it matters, your team plays in it. They have their ups and downs, some elation, some drama. If nothing else, it's a template for Phreaks puns and you surely like those?

Similarly, EU "won" a tournament when the game was in it's infancy, both playwise, popularity wise and in terms of participation. It really doesn't matter, for one because it's not as meaningful a victory, but mostly because the majority of the viewers nowadays did not watch any of that.

And the stupid thing is, I can't even tell you you are odd for believing only winning matters and anything else is not worth your support, because I suspect that is something cultural. But it is silly nonetheless.

[mykonian]

This isn't really a great comparison because a lot of what holds the MLS back is the salary cap. There are clubs that could fork over more money to buy more international talent (LA Galaxy and NYCFC are pretty loaded), but the salary cap and the wonky rules around it with designated players and funny money limit how much clubs can bring in "top players" to bolster their rosters. You could also argue that international slots, to a degree, hold back the MLS, but that would really only be a compelling argument if the salary cap weren't already such a big hamper.

it's a retirement home for top players atm, who rake in some more money after a succesful carreer. Really don't think a salary cap is the issue, exposure and competition is.

Going back to the soccer thing, look at Michael Bradley. He'd probably be a better player if he stayed in Europe, but $6.5m Canadian/yr was too hard to pass up.

See, salary cap isn't the issue. Bradley had the name (bc lets be honest, I've seen him play, not an exceptional talent), and cashed out on it.

Which is why I think the comparison is rather apt. Do you think Piglet, or Ryu, or Deft left Korea, because they had some will to compete at the highest level? Neither do the Europeans who move over to the states in football. Ryu wanted an easier route to worlds, maybe Piglet too, but lets be fair, money played into it. And we'll still watch EULCS and NALCS with the same amount interest, even when they are playing worse. It doesn't make those leagues pointless, because your team plays in it and you get your Phreak puns.

[mykonian]

Hard to call the MLS a retirement home when you have Altidore, Bradley, and Giovinco all on the same team, among other arguments that this is becoming less true.

I've seen two of these a couple of seasons as they got picked up in Europe. Not straight to the main competitions, and Altidore in fairness never made it. He was a striker of a subtop team in the eredivisie, of which you haven't heard, wasn't the star, was a decently hard worker when his trainer got his head into it. Tried a major league (Great Brittain) and failed. Bradley was a stable piece in the same competition, the eredivisie, with a team of similar standing, and made it to the big leagues after, Italy, Germany. Never on the top teams, just below that, never the star of his team either, but a hard worker and you need those as well. He had a good carreer.. and now he's in his football retirement home. He can be proud of what he achieved.

Your glasses have stars and stripes here Bro

[mykonian]

eh, if Altidore had ambition, he wouldn't be in the MLS. This should be his prime. He has tried, and it didn't work out. He's the talent that could never quite deliver.

[mykonian]

three, it's super condescending to assume that someone hasn't heard of the Eredivisie

yes, but to who or what?

That league is irrelevant.

[mykonian]

But if your only European success is a mid tier team in a 2nd tier competition, where as a striker you manage to score goals with Beerens on your flank (not to say he's great but with multiple strikers he delivered a silly amount of assists, serviceable winger) and Maher or Maartens behind you (and there was no doubt, Maher, a teenager, hardcarried that team after Maartens got injured), I am quite happy to call that a failure, yes.

I mean, to get back on topic, you say he looks good now in his comfortable league. So did TSM's botlane in NA LCS. You can't have it both ways, the level can't be great bc you have 3 "great players" in one team, while they only look good because they are in your league playing whoever.

[mykonian]

I feel that'd be unfair to him.

[mykonian]

Hey, we just saw a great example. Bro really likes watching the MLS. And who'd begrudge him that? I've seen some of the matches, they are rather exciting.

[mykonian]

hey, I need you to do something for me. Like somewhere between game 1 and 2 (so we know it's you), get a USA chant going. Ty in advance!

[mykonian]

I'll take the unprejudiced account of the Aussie, I think...

[mykonian]

or sad.

I don't hear the USA's yet

[mykonian]

yup. Bummer

[mykonian]

what a time to show that list

So yeah, of the top 3, zor went with skt, I then took ROX, skrew went with samsung. Think Zor will convert his groups lead into the victory. I took my chance and Zor chose wisely on this semi.

[mykonian]

So who's excited for PSG vs. Shalke 04 in the EULCS at some point?

eh.

it's a bit cringy, isn't it. Like the Turkish big teams doing it might be a bit cute, also because Turks experience that differently and it creates some "rivalry", but in this case I don't think there's really any added value (and possibly for me it devalues their brands).

[mykonian]

Skt fans are even worse than c9 fans.

thought you were in the states?

[mykonian]

yeaaah sure.

Consider me a cynic, but I think there's a bunch of fair weather (ex TSM) fans amongst them right now.

[mykonian]

seems shit.