Micro 558 | Slavic Music Mafia II | Endgame
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InflatablePie they / themAccept When They Dothey / them
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VOTE: Bullet n LynchproofIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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InflatablePie they / themAccept When They Dothey / them
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In post 15, BNL wrote:Don't like the activity rate in this game so far -.-
^thread's been open for ~17 hours
also instead of just saying "here's the math, we should do this, thoughts?" BNL is showing caution. don't like it.
LicketyQuickety wrote:low hanging fruit
why is BNL 'low-hanging fruit'?If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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sure
he's scum
and I'm town
now whatIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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In post 22, BNL wrote:In post 19, InflatablePie wrote:In post 15, BNL wrote:Don't like the activity rate in this game so far -.-
^thread's been open for ~17 hours
also instead of just saying "here's the math, we should do this, thoughts?" BNL is showing caution. don't like it.
LicketyQuickety wrote:low hanging fruit
why is BNL 'low-hanging fruit'?
How am I showing caution?
by not just listing the math outright
by waiting for town's approval before moving forward with your strategy
drunkposting side-note: 11 by Titus feels off. can't quite place a finger on why
In post 23, BNL wrote:Also I'd still like a reply from everyone (esp. Lickety and IPie) on whether they want to set up rooms with everyone (like last game) or reserve them for their suggested use.
I'd rather reserve them. I'd rather utilize them than abuse them, despite abusing them contributing towards a town win last game. I prefer being able to "break" the game as opposed to breaking the game, if that makes sense. Purely from a... morals perspective, so to speak.
---
Speaking of "breaking" the game, something I thought about prior to receiving my role PM - is it possibly strategic to have everyone post in-thread their two top BG targets (and the town players promising to 100% protect one of those two, obviously), to try and catch scum and/or force them to kill in certain pools? I haven't done the math, and also thought of this before realizing scum have a factional RB, but itissomething I briefly considered.
I'm personally in favor of doing something like this, but given that smart and/or lucky scum can potentially work their way around this (in similar fashion to the "here's the third letter of my role name, here's a list of who I protected if it was this letter" style of breadcrumbing) it's probably just a waste of time.
@passionate - I have a (legit) read - scumread on BnLynchproof. Thoughts, and or read on BnLp?If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Like I said, can't quite put my finger on why.
I don't like how cautious his post 15 is. "I did the math, do y'all want to do this?"
I realize that the "scum asking for town's opinions before going through with things" trope is pretty basic as far as scumtells goes, but it's the best I have to go on right now.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Maybe I'm completely misreading her posts (namely 26), but if you're trying to push the "trying too hard too early" angle, BnLp or myself are more fitting choices for that criteria.
If you want to elaborate on Postie though, go for it.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Postie, given you're townreading BnL, why vote for yourself and RC rather than add a third player in your room vote?
Titus, I'd still rather use the rooms sparingly or as necessary, but why 2:2:2:3? Gun to my head, I'd go with 3:3:3 D1.
LQ's 43 reads incredibly awkward/forced to me so I'll let BnL slide for now.
VOTE: LicketyIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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In post 58, Titus wrote:There is nothing awkward about 43.
It's almost like people interpret posts differently in mafia games.
I'm not sure how to walk someone through seeing posts such as 43 as awkward or forced, so if you don't see it, you don't see it, I suppose.
In post 56, LicketyQuickety wrote:Something wrong with the argument I made?
Competent scum could easily come up with this type of thing during N0 for towncred. It's fairly null.
Main problem I have is with your tone in that post.
Titus wrote:2 2 2 3 makes scum know less discussions and raises the possibility of scum having no information on night acts of half the group.
Do scum not have nighttalk?
I can see 2223 working for D2+ (or I guess 223 or something), but I think 2223 gives scum more opportunity to buddy up and sneak into a "townblock". I'd prefer the extra sets of eyes for at least Day 1.
And again, I still don't think this is necessary, but y'know.
BulletNLynchproof wrote:In post 55, InflatablePie wrote:Postie, given you're townreading BnL, why vote for yourself and RC rather than add a third player in your room vote?
This question is weird.
I'll elaborate and explain my thought process when I get an answer. Promise.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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I'd like Esp's opinions on the room stuff because from my quickskim of the first game, he was a huge proponent of breaking the game via rooms.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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*he seemed like he was a huge proponent.
Also, if we decide to go through with a room strategy, and we do decide to go 2223, I would like to request a 2 room with Titus.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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um
what?If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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so you don't have a townread on Titus, yet you think I'm trying to "pocket her", despite that implying that Titus would be town in this scenario?
or do you think I'm that good at ScumKabukiTheatre?
Tag fixed. --PLast edited by Plotinus on Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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I am noob at tags.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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How am I "appealing to Titus' reasonable side"?
How is "trying to pocket [Titus]" supposed to be read any other way than "I think you are scum trying to manipulate town"?
Why aren't you voting me?
And why am I apparently trying to buddy Titus specifically, when I've been more agreeable withyou, given that we both want to use rooms sparingly and both want to go with 333 if we had to pick a strategy?If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Can you elaborate more on 19 and 20, or are you just going to make vague, cryptic statements any time someone asks you to clarify?If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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So you think I'm trying to manipulate Titus, yes? Try and get us in a room together and cozy up with her? Maybe roast some marshmallows or chestnuts (it's Christmas time!)? I specifically said thatifwe use this strat (preferred order - not using it > 333 >>>> 2223) I want a 2 room with Titus.
More importantly, why are you getting scumvibes from me talking to Titus, yet have ignored Titus herself? She's had quite a few posts this game with regards to trying to optimize strategy to her preferred layout (despite you, me and BnL opposing it), yet she isn't seen by you as manipulative.
This shows that either you're not actually picking up on manipulative tells and you're scum fabricating a read, or you're town who's biased by the fact that I'm voting you.
So if you could answer my questions so that we can all sort this out together, that'd be great.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Sorry for the (relative to thread activity) spam.
@mod: V/LA til Sunday as per sig - not that it affects much with your weekend prod timer rulesetIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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LQ wrote:Why should I vote for you?
Well, what's your read on Vyse, then?
LQ wrote:Are you going to nit pick things like this all game? More of your arguments are based on small details that force me to explain my thought process and nothing more. Your arguments are both inconsistent and assuming in nature.
I'm sorry for asking you to explain your thought process...?
Turns out when you refuse to do that, other people tend to assume thing from your posts.
LQ wrote:Are you going to be giving Titus a Town read all game?
I don't have a townread on Titus and I never said I did.
LQ wrote:Are you going to be Scumreading me all game?
Only Day 1, I hope.
LQ wrote:Why should I be forced to explain myself when if just a bit of thought goes into what I say it is easy to see where I am coming from.
Here's the thing - this is twice now you've made posts that don't actually answer the questions I've asked of you. I asked why BnL was low-hanging fruit, you told me to compare him to myself. So yes, I retorted cheekily because I have no smurfing clue what you were trying to say there, and what were you expecting me to respond to thatwith? And then your "my words speak for themselves" bit. You can't make posts like that and then claim you're getting misinterpreted.
What is your read on Titus? What is your read on me?It's like pulling teeth here.
LQ wrote:Low hanging fruit means they are green, like I am green
We've established the color for town is green, yes.
LQ wrote:BLP is smart, yes, but don't have a lot of experience and you have gone and played very aggressively against 2 people who do not have the experience that you have.
The only situation in which this should ever matter is if we're playing a Newbie. That's an awful excuse otherwise.
In post 81, LicketyQuickety wrote:You done? You can get off your holy horse now your highness.
Thrice.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Define 'quote manipulation', because all I did was snip anything not worth responding to.
"How the hell am I supposed to have a read on Vyse?" - good question! That's why I asked - because you have an inferred scumread on me but you're parking on an RVS vote.
The fact that you think I'm being intentionally thick is more condescending than my snark. That's impressive. Me asking you to elaborate isn't me trying to "getcha", it's literally just me wanting you to elaborate.
You're not "required" to have a read but I have asked you multiple times in multiple ways to explain your read, because I am scumreading you, because of your earlier post saying I was trying to pocket Titus. I am wanting you to explain this and you keep dodging the questions I ask you. Guess what? If you're town and I'm town, you want to get those reads out there and try and work with me. If you're town and I'm scum, you want to clear up this confusion so that I don't push a mislynch on you. There's no pro-town reason not to hold onto your reads here, especially considering you contradicted yourself. Wanna know the best part? If your answers make sense, they should be easily explainable and we can drop this whole kerfuffle.
If you're scum, by all means.
Christ.
I will give you the green comment though, I 100% thought you meant you were green as a 'dohoho look at me I'm town' type of comment, not green as in new. My apologies for the miscommunication. Why did me voting BnL stick out to you? Have you played games with BnL prior? Too lazy to check.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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So here's the questions I want you to answer. They're very simple. I don't care if I can infer them from your posts or whatever you'd like to say to deflect, please clearly answer these and I'll consider getting off your back.
What is your read on Titus?
What is your read on me?
If you are scumreading me, why is your vote still on Vyse?
When you say I'm trying to 'pocket' Titus, are you saying I am scum manipulating town?
What is your opinion on Titus' posts regarding the rooms strategies?
Bonus Question: Why was me voting BnL early on notable to you?
Otherwise, I can just requote this post for the next forever, until you answer me. Or until we get shoved in a room as a result of that (all according to my master plan /s).If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Oh, I never did answer your question - I'm leaning scum on Titus. I thought that was implied by me saying I didn't have a townread but saying things clearly and not holding back reads helps progress the town wincon, so y'know.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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If everyone played the same scumgame every time, mafia would be incredibly easy.
I don't understand why you're so adamant about this.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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LQ 89 - I'm aware of Floating and Pocketing. Your explanation doesn't really refute my argument.
In post 68, InflatablePie wrote:BulletNLynchproof wrote:In post 55, InflatablePie wrote:Postie, given you're townreading BnL, why vote for yourself and RC rather than add a third player in your room vote?
This question is weird.
I'll elaborate and explain my thought process when I get an answer. Promise.
In post 96, Postie wrote:In post 55, InflatablePie wrote:Postie, given you're townreading BnL, why vote for yourself and RC rather than add a third player in your room vote?
Well, me and RC had a room last game that worked out well and I was just looking to replicate that, so it didn't really cross my mind. That's a good point though, although I'm not sure I townread BNLenoughto want a room with him at the moment, plus I have no idea whether RC would want him in one. Perhaps it's best for me to wait a little bit longer and see how my reads develop, and then choose a third person with RC that we're both townreading.
So, my thought process was that Postie has a townread on BNL for his 333-Rooms strategy. It stands to reason that Postie would be more likely to be in support of that plan, especially given her post 26 states she wants to see the rooms 'abused as much as possible'. So it really struck me as odd that someone who wants to abuse the mechanic doesn't even try to follow a proposed 'optimal' plan for using said mechanic. Make sense?
I don't like this answer too much btw. I do actually like that BNL noticed that my question was weird, because I realized that the question doesn't look logically sound given the way I worded it. Meanwhile, Postie treating RC like they're masons doesn't sit well with me. I don't think they're scumtogether(similarly, I think the odds of Lickety/Titus being scum together is low) but I can see scumPostie attempting to pocket townRC here. Postie isn't even saying "I'd want to hear from RC, my townread", she's wanting RC and herself in a room togethersolelybecause they were in one last game. Not even attempting to sort RC here, and he's made what... three posts so far? Yuck.
In post 114, RadiantCowbells wrote:If I was scum here, who would you most expect to be my partner and why?
You've made 4 posts, so there's really nothing to link you as far as associative tells. So not me or Postie. That's all I got without rereading the whole game forotherplayers mentioning you, which I'm not doing right now.
In post 124, Titus wrote:In post 122, LicketyQuickety wrote:BPL and Titus and myself should all be in the same room.
No. I don't want scum in our room.
insert snarky comment hereIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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RC and Vyse have promised content, so I'm just gonna sit back and wait on that. Don't want to tunnel too hard on my readslist given I only really have Postie/Titus/BNL/LQ to read right now. Espy definitely needs to post some more content too, and honestly I'm fine quickwagoning any of the three if they don't step up with something soon.
@mod:if Jester needs to be replaced, can we get an extension equal to the amount of time it takes to find a replacement?
Yeah. I've got 3 people in the replacement queue so it shouldn't take long, but we can have an extension. --P
Actually... I don't think both scum are in the five active players. Statistically unlikely and all.
Which is unfortunate because I have reasons to scumread literally everyone who's posted so far, with I guess BnL being my highest townread right now.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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In post 130, Hawk Eyes wrote:Why would you scum read him now if you're expecting to not scum read him later?
explaining the joke is like dissecting a frogIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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In post 166, Postie wrote:What gave you the impression I was townreading RC?
96
Hydra dissonance is making me want it dead, but I'm also fine with running up Espy til he contributes or something.
UNVOTE:
Gonna look shit over tomorrow when I'm not super tired.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Still leaning scum (at least) on LQ btw, I'll explain my unvote tomorrow.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Prod/content dodge, was too lazy yesterday. I'll try to get to it tonight.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Sorry sorry. Second week of a new job and my downtime has been occupied by other things.
I will say that I unvoted because LQ's immediate countervote was giving me slight townvibes but I can't make up my mind.
Leaning town on RC for his aggressiveness, and I need to actually read Vyse's posts to sort him.
Votes probably going on Titushydra barring seeing something obviously scummy on the rereadIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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vote LQ
This is fine, especially considering DL is looming.
I'll try to get a post in before deadline but holidays and procrastination etc.
Merry Christmas to everyone btw.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Eh sure.
GAR: Postiespeonage
#apathyIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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GAR: Vyse RC Pie
#apathy
#justtownthings
#piethoughtsIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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This last page is making me heavily lean HawkEyes scum, because I see exactly where BnL is getting at and don't see how that logic comes from town... but we're not getting that lynch this close to deadline so. Like yeah, I don't like BnL jumping off LQ here, but I can easily see it from town trying to make a point. I don't see how town-Hawkeyes trying to educate scum-BnL in 354 makes any sense.
Actually yeah it is just a flat out scumslip because he said "if you do this, scum will know to do" to a scumread.
fuck it changing my mind again
unvote
vote Hawk Eyes
Me, Postie, BNL - so LQ and Vyse, y'all better hammer or else we NL.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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If Hawkeye flips town my room sure is gonna be interesting tonightIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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and if LQ doesn't hammer... then I'm going to have an aneurysm sorting him, Hawkeye and BnL.
oh well, with no one else awake and Hawkeye never voting LQ, this actually is the only plausible lynch rn anywayIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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either way getting a scumslip for xmas is pretty nice
going to bed though, so hopefully I don't wake up to a NLIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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yep
VOTE: BellaIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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387 is a soft defense of Titus but I dunno how smart it would be to say that as Hawkeyes scumpartner after the lynch went through.
Also asking Postie and I why we weren't voting but didn't have a vote on Day end
So meh, fine with parking here for a bit at least.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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I'm town, Postie is town, BnL is town.
Espe and Bella haven't done much. Espe voting Titus makes me want to look at Bella first, despite the possibility of bussing.
Vyse and RC are leaning town, Vyse moreso bc paranoia. Especially considering RC basically only wanted LQ dead and now he's dead and that's setting off alarm bells (coupled with his room vote of me him Titus early on). I'm not gonna entertain that for a while though.
PoEing this shouldn't take longer than a Day or two at this point imoIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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you're the worst you knowIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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meh
if Bella isn't scum, last scum wouldn't hammer, and most town wouldn't want to hammer because they'd be self-aware enough to realize they'd become a distraction/target. assuming everyone in this game is competent anyway, which I believe is true.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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I could type a mastin-sized wall of how in situations like these, flashwagoning someone to L-1 can give us a wide range of information, but as usual, lazy.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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short version is that with one scum down I'm pretty okay with quicklynching because it gives scum less time to react and blend in when they're already on the ropes. there's nothing wrong with lengthening the day (to an extent obv), it's just something I'd prefer to do.
also we have some rooms that will open during Night phase so it's really not a huge deal and actually adds to the list of reasons to quicklynch if we're confident we have a few rooms without the last scum in them.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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trust me I'm trying really hard toIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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probably not
you think Hawkeye was trying to last-minute push his scumbuddy to "clear" him/Hawkeye or something?If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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I mean that's not too unreasonable a leap I guess given how gung-ho you were about LQ being scum with Hawkeye
I feel like you're going too far into the WIFOM rabbit hole with these associatives though, instead of sticking to Occam's RazorIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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eh I guess.
I'll take a look at the interactions later because why not, but I'll be going into it biased towards there being nothing there ftrIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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as long as this doesn't turn into "let's talk every little thing out until deadline to try and win on D2", because that's how town become apathetic in a situation like this. reads become stale, paranoia spreads, etc.
again, I'm wary of entertaining these reads because it allows scum to slip through to lylo a lot easier.
we have three shots to hit one scum, we're pretty likely to win if we don't lose focus.
[pedit] that makes sense. at least you're aware of it.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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I'll be back later, or after some other people have chimed in, depending.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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also keep in mind that one wrong kill or mis-RB can eliminate a townie from the lynch pool and give us a HUGE advantage as a result. like how I've narrowed it down to Espe or Bella for now, what if one of them dies tonight? or for you, what if BnL dies tonight? (assuming we hit town today duh-doy)
again, it really may be worth it to quicklynch to lylo with scum being so on the ropes here.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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In post 470, BNL wrote:In post 445, InflatablePie wrote:Vyse and RC are leaning town, Vyse moreso bc paranoia.
What paranoia are you taking about? Don't see Vyse being paranoid about anything.
Er, sorry. Moreso because of my paranoia of RC being scum.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Also, my schedule this week is at least 45 hours between both jobs, so activity this week is gonna be kinda low. I'll probably be posting on mobile for a while.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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well THAT didn't work.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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you should probably post this case you were talking about, as to help convince Espeonage as well
your approach to this isn't very townie and again, if you ARE town, you're being a giant distraction right now. at least for me.
so.
I still think it's correct to lynch Espeonage. If he is town, we lynch RC in LYLO. Not that hard. I really, really do not see Postie nor Vyse being scum, at all.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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So I was gonna say that RC being scum is really weird though, because the people he keeps wanting to lynch (LQ going into N1, BnL going into N2) keep dying.
Then I noticed he's basically townread Postie and that's it
like he went from thinking it was BnL, to Vyse in 498, to Espe in 519 to me over Night.
that's not sitting well with me
but I still think it's just Espy and RC is being... well, bad.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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RC also has no reason to make a "Titus CW was weird" comment after her lynch.
like... I'd feel a half-decent scum player would say something not so blah
vote Espe
going to bedIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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you don't have to bother with being condescending because it's not going to do anythingIf you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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In post 434, BNL wrote:Some updated reads:
Espionage is town, I do not see any scum motivation in the Hawk Eyes vote near deadline.
Postie is town too, her only serious vote was on Hawk Eyes, and I don't think scum is going to votepark their partner.
RC is likely town according to his scum meta of hard bussing.
Also all the above reads are supported by my previous post #421
BnL was scumreading me and Vyse by PoE.
Hm.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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nevermind, seriously need to go to bed. argh.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Why would you be NKed over Postie or BnL or anyone else? If I'm not scum, I mean, because I know your response otherwise and I'm already offended at your lack of confidence in my scumgame.
Anyway I came back on real quick to say that no matter who gets lynched today, we all need to go into Night with a unanimous townread to basically be an IC in lylo in case we don't just win today and set up whatever we need to with BGs and Rooms. Because I think the odds of three town players all agreeing the last scum is the towniest person in the game is unlikely (and frankly hilarious if it were to happen)
RC, do you disagree?If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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Arrrrgh.
Don't rush rooms. If, say, RC is lynched today, Postie (as our pesudo IC) needs rooms with Espy and myself in case she wants to direct BGs.
@Postie, I said IF we went with 2223. I made it a point multiple times in my ISO I preferred not spamming rooms day one to 333, and wanted 2223 the least.
I wanted the 2 room if 2223 happened because I was suspicious of Titus and keeping an eye on her when I was pressuring LQ, because I was aware Titus' scumgame is played with specific conclusions in mind and she would try to cause those scenarios or conclusions with her actions. So her wanting to take a town leader role with suboptimal strategy was making alarm bells go off.
LQ then kinda forced my hand with something he said and I revealed my scumread on titus because of that, go look in my ISO somewhere for that.If you don't know how to lie, then how do you know when you're being lied to?
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