Micro 441: Less Pressure

[Jingle]

You may begin your worship of me.

Also, I'm not catching up, it's far too long. Someone is gonna need to summarize everything that's happened.

[Jingle]

You may begin your worship of me.

Also, I'm not catching up, it's far too long. Someone is gonna need to summarize everything that's happened.

Jingley!

Summary: No one is doing anything and out of boredom I'm posting poorly-written smut.

Careful, my join you. I'll start peeing on people's wheaties to stir up thread activity in 4 hours.

Set your clocks.

[Jingle]

I think that if the thread's activity continues like this, we should just assume that a few hundred more posts happened and randomly assume that someone is scummy.

This is an excellent idea.

VOTE: ++--

I'm sure he did something scummy between pages 3 and 5.

[Jingle]

Careful, I might join you.

FTFM

Preliminary reads, not based at all on the three pages I didn't read.

Cause for concern:

++--
Huntress

Piss off, I don't have to read you:

Reck
TTH

I'm gonna have to slap you upside the head with an activity stick:

The rest of the party.
And the people in the other lists.

[Jingle]

VOTE: ++--

This or Pine

Dry-fit isn't as strong a read.

Hey, Xay. Long time no see.

Could you maybe posts some reasons?

[Jingle]

I'm going to assume we agree on ++--.

The other two reads you mentioned would be a start.

And which game is that. Last time I remember seeing you is ikaruga, and neither of us were all the way there in that game.

[Jingle]

You were in Space Invaders?

Huh.

Learn new things every day I guess.

I find your cases uncompelling. If Dry Fit is not scum, who else do you suspect?

[Jingle]

Wait a minute. Who were you in SI?

[Jingle]

The implication being that I'm a townread.

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Huntress, your thoughts please?

[Jingle]

I could quote her entire iso if that'll help.

I can't actually cause I'm mobile, but you get my point.

[Jingle]

I could quote her entire iso if that'll help.

I can't actually cause I'm mobile, but you get my point.

I actually am embarrassed to admit I don't. I feel really stupid right now.

Her entire ISO is various shades of questionable to me. I'll explain why when I'm not trying to get a migraine. Probably tomorrow afternoon at this point.

[Jingle]

Her entire ISO is various shades of questionable to me. I'll explain why when I'm not trying to get a migraine. Probably tomorrow afternoon at this point.

Here, hon, I'll do the busy work for you.

No wagon yet?

Vote: Pine

I'm going to be following the wishes of the innocent children this game, and everyone else should do the same.

Why? They actually know slightly less than we do.

Yeah no

This is the scum, here. Disavowing responsibility and hedging his bets

We've all had a fun RVS, but it's time to play for reals now

But no vote?

I was thinking of switching to Dry-fit after 16, but now I'm happy with where my vote is.

Vote: Dry-fit

11 has a surface appearance of trying to generate discussion and reads, but there's no real follow through.

19 begins by marginalizing the ICs' reads, which I find suspect. Then she pushes Pine for what appears to be no reason. The idea that scum Pine is in any way more reluctant to vote when he pushes people than town pine is is alien to me.

40 is a switch off of Pine when the momentum there seems to be stalling and TTH started pushing at Xay. There's no reasoning or content, and I don't see anything from Pine that I think would have changed her mind if her original read was genuine.

Further, she'd been inactive for almost two days when I posted, which itself was cause for concern when the big problem with the thread is lack of activity.

How so?

Because I operate selfishly when I play mafia and it's much easier for me to glean reads off of people attacking me than off of people attacking other people, and nobody's going to attack me if I'm IC.

A likely story... I bet you just don't want scum to kill you with their vengekill.
Why do you throw me under the bus like this, Reck?

If it helps, TTH is terrible at this game and her reads are worthless.

If I'd wanted an easy wagon I could have stayed on Dry-fit, or moved to Xayzeck following the IC's, rather than opening myself to criticism by following the most recent votes. But I think Xayzeck may be town and I was split between Dry and Pine, so I moved to a stronger scum read.

And my suspicion of your Dry-Fit vote and the fact that the Xay push had come before my discussion with him means nothing? As of post 40, why was Dry-fit a better vote than Pine?

[Jingle]

Always, tth.

[Jingle]

Huntress, if you'd be so kind as to respond to 103 I'd love to read it.

[Jingle]

104, sorry.

[Jingle]

Always, tth.

Spoiler:

I'm not sure what that means, but seriously, you should know better than to ask me that question. Have you read my signature?

[Jingle]

11 has a surface appearance of trying to generate discussion and reads, but there's no real follow through.

Are you kidding me? If not please explain what you're getting at here in the view of the context of this particular post.

No kidding here. At least right now. Wagoning for the sake of wagoning has never led me to accurate reads, but it has proven quite useful in looking like it. Combine that with a lack of follow through on questioning Pine, and the picture she paints is not pretty.

19 begins by marginalizing the ICs' reads, which I find suspect. Then she pushes Pine for what appears to be no reason. The idea that scum Pine is in any way more reluctant to vote when he pushes people than town pine is is alien to me.

You find questioning and probing to get reads "suspect" and "for no reason"?[/quote]

I find accusations with no basis in reality suspect, yes. If you're trying to build a read out of toothpicks, you're not gonna get a real read. You're gonna get a stack of toothpicks. Tell me again who is more concerned with making it look like they're looking for alignments than actually figuring things out. Unless you're Titus. Are you Titus? Or, if there's a logical basis behind the questioning, please share it with me.

40 is a switch off of Pine when the momentum there seems to be stalling and TTH started pushing at Xay. There's no reasoning or content, and I don't see anything from Pine that I think would have changed her mind if her original read was genuine.

The wagon had served it's purpose in starting things moving. Pine responded without fuss to my 19 so I moved on to Dry-fit as I had said I was thinking of doing earlier. As you can see from my 82, the read on Pine is still there but it's not strong enough to lock on to.[/quote]

And as you can see from my post 104, I'd like to know why. What did Pine do that made him less wagon-worthy? What did Dry-Fit do that made him more wagon-worthy? What about Pine's response to 19 was so compelling? They why is very important Huntress. In fact, it's more important than the what.

Further, she'd been inactive for almost two days when I posted, which itself was cause for concern when the big problem with the thread is lack of activity.

Life happens. It is

not

an alignment tell.[/quote]

Cause for concern =/= alignment tell. Cause for concern = worth mentioning. Thank you.

Huntress, if you'd be so kind as to respond to 103 I'd love to read it.

Attempting to make it look like I'm ignoring your post, are you?


I'm guessing it's ++--, Jingle and Pine in the library with the candlestick. Pine is the least certain of those.

Thank you, Huntress. And no, I was trying to make it look like I was waiting for a response before continuing. Possibly because I was waiting for a response before continuing.

[Jingle]

"Top suspect?" How can you even have a "top suspect" in post 16? No one had made any posts of substance. All I'd posted was two jokes. On page one.

I can have reads on page 1. Sometimes even pretty solid ones. It's nothing unusual. I tend to base reads on one or two posts more than other players, rather than on overall play.

[quote"Pine"]No, you were making an easy, scummy vote, while at the same time setting up an "I'm not responsible" excuse for when I flip Town. Now you're blustering and making excuses for past actions[/quote]
I don't feel its setting up an excuse. By all means I should be held responsible for the quality of my reads. I just think the ICs should make the ultimate decision about the lynch. It's not like I can make them the fall guys and get them lynched if a townie is lynched.

I would vote ++-- right now but that would be L-1 and I don't know if scum would be willing to go for quickhammer shenanigans in this setup.[/quote]

*Checks player list.

Nope, no Guyett or ika. You don't gotta worry about quickhammers.

But seriously, why are you so interested in putting him at L-1 if you're afraid of scum quickhammering. Do you think scum is gonna quickhammer other scum? Do you think it's against our interests to trade 1 for 1 with scum?

Hell, I'd be rather excited if scum quickhammered.

[Jingle]

You couldn't be more wrong, T. I'd never kill anyone with a tuba. They're unwieldy and inelegant, not to mention that it would actually be rather difficult.

And reck, cheeky isn't an alignment tell with me. If anything, it's a tell of how invested in the game I am and my opinion of the other players. I usually sober up eventually though.

[Jingle]

Quick question. Why does a nightless game without plurality lynching have deadlines? If we hit deadline, the thread is going to stay open and the Vote Count is going to reset and nothing else is going to happen. Seems like a waste to me.

[Jingle]

I think your reading comprehension sucks.

[Jingle]

gasp

SCUM!

[Jingle]

*Checks player list.

Nope, no Guyett or ika. You don't gotta worry about quickhammers.

But seriously, why are you so interested in putting him at L-1 if you're afraid of scum quickhammering. Do you think scum is gonna quickhammer other scum? Do you think it's against our interests to trade 1 for 1 with scum?

Hell, I'd be rather excited if scum quickhammered.

I'm surprised to hear something like this come from you, Jingle, because I know this is the kind of stuff you think about.

Due to the nature of the set-up, scum need to mislynch two VTs to win. With the scum vengekill in play, it doesn't necessarily matter how you get those mislynches and there's room to lose someone without needing to get more. Taking a 1 IC and 1 VT trade for 1 scum wouldn't be a bad strategic move.

Yes. I am good at setup spec. Very good. And trust me when I tell you that a quick hammer here is not in Scum's best interest. The thought would be that they only need one myslynch, but they're outing one of their own for a player who was already a likely lynch.

Further it doesn't solve the issue of being afraid of a quick hammer implying a town read on the player in question. Either you're willing for him to be lynched or you're not.

Did Jingle tell you to bus in the PT Xay, or did you come up with that on your own?

Bussing is stupid in this setup.

[Jingle]

I have a light scum read on ++--

So does everyone else in this game. Get in line.

Rather surprising he hasn't been lynched yet then

More surprising to me is how there's no takers for the IC-blessed wagon. Instead, they opted to make their move on ++--.

I know xay and I'm pretty sure we can figure each other out eventually. I'll get back to you once I've got a read on him.

[Jingle]

I think your reading comprehension sucks.

While crudely expressed, I agree with the sentiment, Jingley. The Huntress case sucks. It holds her to this oddly high standard and the things I quoted in ISO look fairly innocuous to me. Having a kind of clunky and disjointed ISO would seem to me to come with the condition of not knowing what you're doing, which I actually associate more with town.

perhaps I hold her to high standard, but she was in the game that convinced me to join the site so I reserve that right.

Your reading comprehension also sucks, BTW. Check my iso and tell me what my read on huntress is.

[Jingle]

Don't you roll your eyes at me, Mr. Sugarpants. >:\

What's your explanation for how ++-- is so popular while the Xayzeck wagon languishes?

I'm not entirely sure, although I don't really think Xayzeck is scum at the moment.

Your reading comprehension also sucks, BTW. Check my iso and tell me what my read on huntress is.

I actually don't know. More scum than not, though.

I don't have one. She's done a couple of things to raise eyebrows, but I'm nowhere near sure on her. The "case" you keep referring to was in direct response to you asking me why I thought her behavior was worth noting, and was not intended to be convincing. If I wanted to fabricate a case, I'd fabricate a much better case.

[But seriously, why are you so interested in putting him at L-1 if you're afraid of scum quickhammering. Do you think scum is gonna quickhammer other scum? Do you think it's against our interests to trade 1 for 1 with scum?

Scum might want to quickhammer because it gives town less information. ++-- isn't by any means a lock for the lynch today so scum might jump for the chance. I'm not interested in giving scum the choice of whether or not to go down the quickhammer route if they feel it's in their interest. I may be wrong about whether or not it's a valid play but it does seem to me to be a legitimate option.

As for whether or not I'm willing to lynch ++--, as I've said I think it should be up to the ICs to decide. If it were up to me he'd be my top choice.

I don't have any kind of handle on Xay at the moment. I don't think that's a good sign.

It gives town less information how? Because the wagon of someone who is scary enough to quickhammer has no information? And the scum being willing to sacrifice one of their own before figuring out where everyone's reads are? It's a shitty idea.

I think it's likely that ++-- is a patsy. There is an awkwardness about him, but I think it's more likely a result of being new than a result of being scum. This is supported by his fairly recent join date and his unfamiliarity with how the game is played on this site (Post 112). Looking at his ISO, it doesn't look like he starts conforming to the flow of the game, either. That's wouldn't seem characteristic of a man who has access to a PT with people familiar with the site meta. It's also unsettling that four out of six non-ICs were scum reading him and were either voting or expressed willingness to vote him. Add in my town read on Pine and this wagon is poison. I won't support it.

I would support this, though.
VOTE: Dry-Fit

Maybe. I do find it suspicious that it a bunch of people who are scumreading me sheeped me onto this vote.

I can agree that I at least need to look deeper at +

Well that's disappointing.

Well, you're not doing anything

[Jingle]

Huh. I meant to

UNVOTE:

[Jingle]

Why are people not voting Dry-Fit?

Because I'm not comfortable with the game state or where my reads are, and we've got a functionally infinite deadline so I'm in no hurry.

I'll catch up with this in the morning.

I'll hold you to that. I'll also try to stir some shit up tomorrow. Hold me to that.

[Jingle]

Dry-Fit- Pine has a point. In addition, he's very self aware with regard to wagon positioning. And 47 sounds a lot like he's trying to defend himself if Xay flips town. I can support this lynch.

Huntress- I'm not a fan of her explanation on why she switched to dry fit, and I don't see an attempt from her to read much of anyone. Her only interaction with Pine (aside from her RVS wagonvote) is to call him scum for not interacting with anyone. I can support this lynch.

Xayzeck- I remember thinking gut town from our back and forth, but I just read his ISO and I'm not really a fan of the fact that he didn't really explain his reads to my satisfaction. Xay, talk to me about +. Talk to me about Pine. Talk to me about Dry-Fit. How have these reads evolved. What are you thinking. What about me? What do you think about me. I might be able to get behind this lynch. We'll see.

Pine- He reads as confident in his Dry-Fit push. This is probably my strongest townread.

++-- It kinda feels like he's trying to convince me to vote him. Normally, I'd feel like this is a "low hanging fruit" situation after TTH's comment, but with him having a 60% chance of being scum... Well. I could get behind this lynch.

[Jingle]

DryFit, talk to me about Pine.

[Jingle]

If it helps I also get progressively sadder every time I check the thread. New plan. We no lynch 300 times to make a new site record.

[Jingle]

God, I should have been Lying Cat for this game.

[Jingle]

Taking the opportunity to hit on Jingle is never a bad use of time.

GM, (And TTH) expound on your worry about me.

Also, if I could trouble you for a towncase for dryfit, I'd be ever so grateful.

[Jingle]

Although on the townie looking side the whole thing about saying that we in effect have no deadline in this game seems pretty damn town.

Why? I'm a setup spec and gamebreaking kind of player. Why would manipulating the setup (in a pretty damn obvious fashion, if I may) mean anything for my alignment?

Oh, this is so much fun!

Whoopsies. This be me, peeps.

[Jingle]

I'm very drunk right now, but it occurs to me that being willing to lynch literally more than half of the players is bad. I'll reread looking for town again in teh mornign

[Jingle]

That's a stupid post.

[Jingle]

Actually,

VOTE: Xayzeck

That looks a lot like faked ignorance to me. Like, there's no way that's legitimate.

[Jingle]

Quick question. Why does a nightless game without plurality lynching have deadlines? If we hit deadline, the thread is going to stay open and the Vote Count is going to reset and nothing else is going to happen. Seems like a waste to me.

Because I'm not comfortable with the game state or where my reads are, and we've got a functionally infinite deadline so I'm in no hurry.

Although on the townie looking side the whole thing about saying that we in effect have no deadline in this game seems pretty damn town. So overall he's a conflicted read for me. More on the scum side though.

hello gm

can you get your other IC's read in check?

thanks

oh lord 7 hours

VOTE: Pine

++-- is a good wagon too if you guys can flash him

No.

The only way you don't know the deadline is infinite is if you aren't reading the thread. And that means that you aren't scumhunting. The Xay I know doesn't miss shit like that in a 9 page game.

You're scum. And you're trying to get people to jump to a lynch without thinking.

Further, appealing to gm to influence TTH's reads?

Congrats though, you're making me think Pine is town.

Xay is scum. I'd bet the game on it.

[Jingle]

Cats are evil. Be aware, be wary.

[Jingle]

But seriously though, Xay is scum.

[Jingle]

Oh, hey. I forgot to vote.

VOTE: xayzeck

That's better.

[Jingle]

Dry Fit is worse though. Continued attempts to avoid takin responsibility for his own reads, obvious attempts to hedge when he knows people will flip Town, buddying ICs, etc

If I'm hedging on voting anyone in this game, it's ++--. But you think he's scum. So how am I hedging on people I know will flip town in your opinion?

Top three scumreads right now:

++--
Jingle
Xay

I'm pretty much back to not having any town reads at all right now though.

Is that dissonance painful.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Xayzeck

He's scum and he's dying today.

[Jingle]

Boxers.

If you're asking for scumreads, pine is my only townead and I'm not at all sure on anyone but xayzeck.

I link to my case when I get home tonight, or you can check my iso.

Me. Sorry guys, I was pretty sloppy last night.

[Jingle]

Liar.
Vote xay.

[Jingle]

Huntress may be a partner.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Xayzeck

Blind

Vote: Xayzeck

Not the votes themselves, per se, but your reasoning and timing have felt quite a bit off. It's a common scum assertion that, just because they've voted scummy people, that that automatically makes their reasons scummy. It ain't true

I haven't gotten much significant vibe from Xayzeck. Sell me on why he's scummy?

That second sentence doesn't make sense. What did you actually mean there?

As for Xay, it's just a gut feeling, as I said earlier.

Not as blind

Is that dissonance painful.

Yeah. I'm kind of antsy to see a flip to see where to go from here.

Vote: Xayzeck.

Could be scum

VOTE: Xayzeck

He's scum and he's dying today.

Scum

Because there is significant case on me being scum, and you guys should be competent enough to realise that.

At worst, I'm apathetic town, and best I'm lurkytown.

I've pushed 0 scum motivation. Don't be dumb.

VOTE: Jingle

And you can make way better pushes like that if you cared about solving this game, which you clearly don't since you're pushing me, therefore you're scum.

Not rocket science, guys.

I see 0 town motivation in any of your posts. This reminds me of a game we played, where you were wax and Wisdom dropped off of the radar. Lemme look once more at your alignment in that game? Oh yeah...

Wax:

mafia goon

, lynched day 2!

the

town

! (Krystal Bald, Slainte Mhath, Jake from State Farm, Calcifer, Brian Skies, Snork, and Jingle) have won!!!

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

If anyone enjoys a good read while waiting for a hammer on caught scum, feel free.

[Jingle]

Dammit. I added a space in the quote tags somehow. Pretend I didn't fuck that up.

[Jingle]

No. TTH, Xay is scum. VOTE HIM NOW.

[Jingle]

What exactly is hard to understand about surface level reads and going with the flow being scum motivated? I don't have to explain things that are obvious.

And you can make way better pushes like that if you cared about solving this game, which you clearly don't since you're pushing me, therefore you're scum.

Back at ya, buddy. Have we had the discussion about hypocrisy as a scumtell? I thought I mentioned it to you back when you were a newbie. Ah well, you're projecting your own behavior onto me and calling it scummy.

I remember enough about your meta to remember you being apathetic as fuck as scum, and your own wiki seems to support me by telling me you're more interested in playing as town.

Your apathy and lack of presence is exactly what I expect from scum-you here. You tried to let the thread apathy foster until deadline, pushed a deadline lynch, and then realized you're boned when the game revealed itself to be independent of deadlines. Sorry, Xay. I love you and I love playing with you, but this time you drew scum and I caught you.

[Jingle]

I answered it with the realization that I would lynch anybody except Pine. As of now, my top three is Xayzeck, Xayzeck, and Xayzeck, with a mild case of Huntress on the side. Would you please help me lynch Xayzeck?

Everyday Xayzeck isn't lynched, a cat goes without a good home.

[Jingle]

You can save this cat, gm.

[Jingle]

@Jingle: Why don't you want Pine lynched again?

He looked like he was trying to get town moving with hi dryfit push and it felt like he did when we were masons together. I'm holding onto the read for sanity reasons, but more importantly, XAYZECK IS SCUM.

[Jingle]

Yes. But that's okay, lynch Xay with me and everything will be alright.

Pine posts-

I'm going to be following the wishes of the innocent children this game, and everyone else should do the same.

Pine probably is scum but I'm not going to vote him right now.

Yeah no

This is the scum, here. Disavowing responsibility and hedging his bets

We've all had a fun RVS, but it's time to play for reals now

This reads to me like he's trying to generate real discussion and move the town out of RVS. It doesn't hurt that I can understand why he finds fault with Dry's post.

Because of wagon position? Kinda weak. Dry fit is better

He didn't need to say anything here. But he is. He's trying to find out why people think the way they do, and yet he's still holding true to his read. He's not going where the wind may take him, but actually taking a stance and fighting for his reads.

Although, looking at that last one again, he might be a Xay partner.

[Jingle]

Also, let's see how much support we can get for a Goodmorning wagon. Everyone, y/n, would you lynch goodmorning?

[Jingle]

Right, and your OMGUS is totally convincing. Have you considered logical arguments describing behavior? No? Maybe because you can't. Somebody hammer him, he's caught scum, and he's not even putting in effort at this point.

[Jingle]

I'm calling you scum because as a logical, careful person, I don't see how it's possible that you missed a core mechanic of the game, and I see why youscum was doing it. But sure, argue how I'm scum. It'll only make me look better when we see your flip.

Who are you gonna kill?

[Jingle]

In other news huntress is day's partner, and I've solved the goddamn game.

[Jingle]

Jingle's "Bussing is stupid in this setup." comment is still bothering me. Because it's not true. If scum refuse to bus they're going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Bussing =\= distancing.

And no, they wouldn't. You push one person to lynch. I would bet that scum have each other as secondary or tertiary scum reads.

But sure, correct theory is scummy, especially from a theory guy.

[Jingle]

Cool Deal. But he will, so...

Also, I'm out until Monday, so you'll all have to live without me for a day. Try not to break too much glass and clean up after yourselves, because I won't be here to babysit you.

[Jingle]

Just checking in to say Xay is scum, you're all being dense, and we should lynch him. By god, people. The game is solved. Follow me to VICTORY!

[Jingle]

ugh i don't know if i want to hammer xay now

Yoi should ask Jingle to repeat his scumcase eh that'll be handy

Yup, he's still scum.

[Jingle]

The point is that Xay is scum.

XAYZECK IS SCUM!

[Jingle]

Me too! But by prod dodge I mean post:

XAYZECK IS SCUM!

Over and over and over and over.

This is a public service announcement by your friendly neighborhood Jingle.

XAYZECK IS SCUM!

[Jingle]

I don't know if I believe that!

Make a towncase that I can refute, or join me on the Xay wagon. Huntress won't help us lynch Xay anymore, so we're gonna need all the townies.



Also, Just a friendly reminder:

XAYZECK IS SCUM.

[Jingle]

You've driven away any confidence I had in that read.

[Jingle]

Xayzeck is scum.

Do I actually need to restate my reasoning? It's fucking obvious. Town Xay pays more attention to the thread than that. He doesn't give a shit about the game and he's making no attempt to read anyone. He's goddamn scum. Now help me lynch him.

[Jingle]

See, the problem I have with that is that your points boil down to:
1. effort
2. effort
3. untrue assertion.

Vote: Xayzeck

Not the votes themselves, per se, but your reasoning and timing have felt quite a bit off. It's a common scum assertion that, just because they've voted scummy people, that that automatically makes their reasons scummy. It ain't true

I haven't gotten much significant vibe from Xayzeck. Sell me on why he's scummy?

That second sentence doesn't make sense. What did you actually mean there?

As for Xay, it's just a gut feeling, as I said earlier.

This is pretty obviously scum bussing. She's trying hard to look like she has a reason to vote her buddy, but she doesn't. She's trying hard to be on the Xay wagon, but she's still not arguing for it. She's trying to lynch Pine while voting for Xayzeck, and it's because she wants the towncred of being on his wagon.

Why would voting/not voting matter though?

Because in this setup if scum doesn't bus then we need every townie voting unamimously to get a lynch, so if you're town we may not be able to get a lynch on scum without you.

Bussing =\= distancing.

And no, they wouldn't. You push one person to lynch. I would bet that scum have each other as secondary or tertiary scum reads.

I'm talking about bussing, not distancing. If we lynch scum we look at those not on the wagon, which means at least one scum has to be on the wagon otherwise they're out in the open. Bussing is good play for scum here. But then, so is abstaining as it just drags the game out and we end up with a compromise lynch, probably on town.


I can't make my mind up whether Xay or Jingle is scum, or both or even neither. So I'm going back to those I have decent scum reads on: Pine and ++--. Pine has been refusing to answer questions and has been posting in other games while avoiding this one.

Vote: Pine

@ ++--:

If you think Xay is town, then who on the the wagon do you think is scum and why aren't you voting them?

@ Pine:

If you think Xay is town, then who on the the wagon do you think is scum and why aren't you voting them?

And as soon as the wagon stalls on her buddy, she jumps ship. Don't want to be voteparking on your buddy, you've got town to lynch!



Effort isn't really indicative of alignment, and he obviously has tried to read people or what the fuck was p13?

I know that part of me is only resisting the lynch because I feel forced into it but more of it is because I genuinely don't think Xay is Scum.

1. Effort is sometimes indicative of alignment. Some players put more work in as certain alignments. Live with it.
2. No. No it isn't. The backbone of the case is that he isn't reading the thread. Xay is more careful than that as town. He reads critically and he doesn't miss things that have had multiple posts dedicated to them in an 8 page game. That's just not town him behavior.
3. P13 was Xayscum looking at me, who caught him, and going "Oh shit, I better shut him up. I better make sure no one listens to that." What better way to do so than to call me scum? Given that every mention of another player on that page by him was somehow tied to me, it reads a lot like survivalistic scum trying to minimize my reads whenever possible.

Someone, please give me a spectacular motivational speech. I promise I'll go find some stirring orchestral music to play in the background while I read it.

Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of Xayzeck and all the odious apparatus of Scum rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall lynch Xay in France, we shall lynch Xay on the seas and oceans, we shall lynch Xay with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our town, whatever the cost may be. We shall lynch Xay on the beaches, we shall lynch Xay on the landing grounds, we shall lynch Xay in the fields and in the streets, we shall lynch Xay in the hills; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New Town, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

[Jingle]

Me putting less effort than normal is not indicative of my alignment, I just don't feel particularly motivated to play mafia in general. My activity sidewide is this way.

I'm interested, do you have reasons for Xayscum without meta? How convinced are you without comparisons to how I play as town/scum.

The case started as a meta observation, but your reaction was decidedly not town. It's noted that you're about to try to convince me you're not scum.

[Jingle]

See, the problem I have with that is that your points boil down to:
1. effort
2. effort
3. untrue assertion.

Effort isn't really indicative of alignment, and he obviously has tried to read people or what the fuck was p13?

I know that part of me is only resisting the lynch because I feel forced into it but more of it is because I genuinely don't think Xay is Scum.

1. Effort is sometimes indicative of alignment. Some players put more work in as certain alignments. Live with it.
2. No. No it isn't. The backbone of the case is that he isn't reading the thread. Xay is more careful than that as town. He reads critically and he doesn't miss things that have had multiple posts dedicated to them in an 8 page game. That's just not town him behavior.
3. P13 was Xayscum looking at me, who caught him, and going "Oh shit, I better shut him up. I better make sure no one listens to that." What better way to do so than to call me scum? Given that every mention of another player on that page by him was somehow tied to me, it reads a lot like survivalistic scum trying to minimize my reads whenever possible.

1. Maybe so, but I'm not convinced that Xay is one of them.
2. If this is about the deadline thing, that's a really dumb argument. I once read a setup, replaced into the (Open) game, and immediately said someone was a Serial Killer when there wasn't one in the game. People forget things like that, things that aren't relevant to their player-based trains of thought, all the time.
3. Or maybe, it's giving-up Town who wants to clarify his top scumread for the dithering IC.

OH LOOK

Conveniently, now you don't like his reactions. THIS IS NEW.

Right, and your OMGUS is totally convincing. Have you considered logical arguments describing behavior? No? Maybe because you can't. Somebody hammer him, he's caught scum, and he's not even putting in effort at this point.

I'm calling you scum because as a logical, careful person, I don't see how it's possible that you missed a core mechanic of the game, and I see why youscum was doing it. But sure, argue how I'm scum. It'll only make me look better when we see your flip.

Who are you gonna kill?

Yup, totally new. Now help me lynch xay.

[Jingle]

VOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: XayzeckVOTE: Xayzeck


XAYZECK IS SCUM!

Also, TTH, how did you like my emotional and moving speech? I spent a lot of time writing it for you.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Xayzeck

[Jingle]

VOTE: Xayzeck

I'm serious guys. He's scum, and I'd bet the game on it. Lynch him. Hell, lynch me. Just promise me you'll lynch him tomorrow.

[Jingle]

Is this mistaken tunnely-as-fuck Jingle, or just scumjingle hm

Neither, this is Jingle who caught scum and isn't being listened to. It's almost like you're Titus and TTH is Antihero.

Lynch Xayzeck.

[Jingle]

in fact, if they're scumminess is independent of my flip, then shouldn't they be considered for lynch too with Xaytown flip?

If Xayzeck were to flip town, the most likely scumteam would be GM and TTH, IMO.

[Jingle]

In fairness, I've reached the point of prod dodging until you people grow a second braincell to rub against the first one.

Lynch Xayzeck.

[Jingle]

I, too, have played with him before and I don't agree.

Next reason?

On a scale from 1 to even, I just can't.

[Jingle]

Characterize to me town xay, if you would.

[Jingle]

I wouldn't.

So what you're saying is that you can't tell me what town Xayzeck looks like, but that Xayzeck here is playing to his town meta. That doesn't make sense. Even if you think Xay is town and I am scum, you still KNOW that TTH is town and voting Xay. KNOW. But you won't try to convince her of your point of view because... What? I'm genuinely at a loss here.

Ok, lets try this from another angle.

Official Vote Count

Xayzeck

(4): Jingle, Dry-fit, TellTaleHeart, Huntress

Not Voting

(4): ++--, Xayzeck, goodmorning, Pine

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-02-21 22:45:00)

Official Vote Count

Xayzeck

(4): Jingle, Dry-fit, Huntress, TellTaleHeart

Jingle

(1): Xayzeck

Not Voting

(3): ++--, goodmorning, Pine

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-02-21 22:45:00)

Xay is at L-1 here for fucking forever. Why, in your chain of events doesn't scum hammer town-Xay despite being asked to by TTH?

[Jingle]

Why, in your chain of events, doesn't Scum hammer Scum-Xay despite being asked to by TTH? They'd get townpoints from her, could kill one of us, and Xay was looking like the inevitable lynch anyway so keeping him wouldn't be much help.

Do the words White Flag mean anything to you?

[Jingle]

Do the words HE WAS GOING TO BE LYNCHED ANYWAY mean anything to

youuuuu

?????

That you're being intentionally obtuse. Should they mean anything else.

Now that I'm actually on a computer, how about:

Vote: Xayzeck

Not the votes themselves, per se, but your reasoning and timing have felt quite a bit off. It's a common scum assertion that, just because they've voted scummy people, that that automatically makes their reasons scummy. It ain't true

I haven't gotten much significant vibe from Xayzeck. Sell me on why he's scummy?

That second sentence doesn't make sense. What did you actually mean there?

As for Xay, it's just a gut feeling, as I said earlier.

Huntress may be a partner.

No scum worth their salt busses for towncred after that. None.

You're at the point where I want to start being nasty. Don't make me be that person.

[Jingle]

No scum would hammer out of no where on their buddy in the hopes of towncred when that's pretty obviously not working, no. Because it wouldn't get them towncred.

Tell me about how Xay is so town in your mind. It might stop me from thinking of you as the VIC.

[Jingle]

Also: I'm not going to discuss Scum strategy here.

Probably because you're incredibly bad at it.

I'm going back to prod dodging and voting Xayzeck, because obviously GM isn't capable of rational thought.

[Jingle]

Then Jingle first.

Or Viomi because DID YOU EVEN READ THAT

Fine. But you promise me you lynch him after.

VOTE: Xayzeck

[Jingle]

VOTE: Xayzeck

[Jingle]

VOTE: Xayzeck

[Jingle]

Hey, has anyone considered

VOTE: Xayzeck

Or hell, lynch me, then lynch Xay and Huntress. In that order. I'm that fucking confident.

[Jingle]

Hmmmm. Still no Xayzeck lynch. See you guys tomorrow.

[Jingle]

Fuck. Don't quicklynch me, please.

I'm busy for the rest of the weekend, although if I don't pass out in the next 20 minutes I'll be up all night to entertain everyone. Regardless, I should have free time on monday.

@Xay- I'm horribly disappointed in your play this game. C'mon, man. You're better than this. You can do so much more.

[Jingle]

Workpost, I am the remaining town. Will explain how you can be sure later.

[Jingle]

Also,lylo, please don't vote etc.

[Jingle]

I'm gonna go drink myself into a coma, but first:

Huntress was killed. She was a Vanilla Townie.

There is no way in hell I'd ever let any scumpartner of mine kill a VT in this setup. That's borderline playing against your wincon, and if I had a scumteam as incompetent as the players in this game, I'd have dictated their play from the word go. I'm good at scum. I'm a manipulative fuck, and that's about all I'm great at in mafia. There's no way in hell a scumbuddy of mine would have shot Huntress.

That explains the last townie.

vote: Jingle

This is exactly what scum opens the day with. I need one of the ICs to vote this person, so I'm going to naked vote out of the gate. He's fishing for a lynch on me, expecting you guys to stick to your stated plan of lynching me. It's also the only thing that even remotely explains the huntress kill, although they're really stupid, because there's a chance I would have turned to Huntress scum as a conclusion.

More when I get to it.

[Jingle]

A show of good faith.

unvote
vote: Viomi

Doesnt matter to me which one dies, because Im not at white flag

Yup. They're partners. TTH, GM, I'll vote whichever you would like.

It's fucking hilarious that you backpedal onto Vi once I've already called you out on trying to jump into lynching me, though. Priceless.

[Jingle]

This is exactly what scum opens the day with.

No, that's actually what I would expect town to start out with. Town would know exactly who the scum were from the get go and wouldn't be shy about naked voting. While the accompanying sentence is cryptic as shit, I don't think it's scummy.

I think lynching Viomi here would win us the game.

No, it really isn't. Town's most important thing here is making themselves known as town. pisskop's entrance was an attempt to get you to lynch me. Specifically me. Not me or Viomi, but me. The only town left who had a ton of suspicion on him coming into the day. The backpedal he just did is only what he had to do when I drew attention to it.

TTH, GM, I'll vote whichever you would like.

I don't see any votes.

And holy shit I wasn't even /here/ for that last lynch, talk about fast.
I think pisskop is the most likely partner for Prolapsed.

Nor do I see Viomi even mentioning Jingle.

It's because they literally cannot vote for the other without playing against their wincon. Don't make this take another month, GM.

I haven't voted because there's literally no reason for me to. TTH and GM have to decide this lynch. If either of them votes me, scum wins. Rest assured, I intend to hammer any wagon at L-1 though.

[Jingle]

I think lynching Viomi here would win us the game.

Me too. I could do that.

[Jingle]

Me too. I could do that.

The issue is that he isn't GM. He gives the lip-service to the idea of lynching Viomi, but to actually do so would cost him the game.

Get in here and talk with us, so that we can resolve this. Both ICs want to lynch a different scum, and we all need to iron this out.

I haven't voted because there's literally no reason for me to. TTH and GM have to decide this lynch. If either of them votes me, scum wins. Rest assured, I intend to hammer any wagon at L-1 though.

Your misrep would be more believable if it came after something that didn't explain it away.

Your little crossvote stunt is fucking meaningless. All you need is ONE of TTH and GM to vote me and you can quickhammer. Conversely, if one of them votes one of you, the lack of quickhammer will make you obvscum. The only possible way my vote matters here is if I hand you the game by selfvoting, and I'm not entirely retarded.

Frankly, though, this is wasted energy on my part. TTH and GM need to come to a consensus on who they think the most probable scum is, then vote. My voice isn't really going to add weight to any arguments, and neither should either of yours. I trust the ICs to pull this game off.

[Jingle]

What of Jingle is there to analyze? A hard push on town for no reason which isn't his town play? There's not much to look at, I know you're both scum, what else is there for me to say?

Pot, meet kettle.

Fucking mobile I'm going to kill myself if I'm mislynched by the time I get to a keyboard

Nice ATE, and fucking useless ATE at that.

[Jingle]

if I may be frank, regardles of roled or alignments, you two ICs put Jingle on some Do Not Lynch list, because emotions/past social interactions

its irritating

And some more ATE. People like me more than you, deal with it.

2) Jingle has been pushing for you to see me in a scummy light, but what about Viomi. 'yea, she's scum too'.

Yeah, shooting down everything you say is ignoring Viomi. I have one goal here: Don't get lynched. You have the opposite goal: get Jingle lynched. Not responding to nothing is not a scumtell. If Viomi was helping you push my lynch I'd be spending just as much time shooting her shitty arguments down.

[Jingle]

Sounds like, as town, you'd have no problem lynching that slot.

You know, since its guarentteed scum if you are town.

Oh, it's kinda like you completely understand what my post says. Guess you do speak English after all. I'd been wondering.

[Jingle]

Let's lynch Jingle.

In other news huntress is day's partner, and I've solved the goddamn game.

*looks at watch*

Just waiting on that flip.

If Xay isn't scum, you're next sweetie. ^_^

Vote: Prolapsed Brain

That's L-1.

Not sure which of the other three is town but I've a feeling it's Jingle.

I'm just gonna point again at the Nightkill and point out that me being scum doesn't make any fucking sense at all.

[Jingle]

No, because she is scum.

There is nothing I care to say at this point to affect the game state.

I'm going to prod dodge until the end of the game.

TTH, you've got this.

[Jingle]

p-dodge

[Jingle]

VOTE: viomi

Fucking finally. For the record, I blame tth.

[Jingle]

[Jingle]

Criticisms here.
The vengeshot lost the game. We may have lost without it, but it made the game virtually unwinnable.
The setup is bad. Disregarding my disdain for opens, this setup is not very playable. Given infinite time, it's slightly interesting, but as it is, you've got a trap for replacements until either the game is abandoned or someone with enough charisma to singlehandedly get a lynch replaces in, which just isn't a fun use of time.

An option to fix it would be to add plurality lynching or some other incentive to lynch and a deadline. As it is, there is no reason for scum to advance the game state at all, and there's very little incentive for town to do so. It's technically balanced, just incredibly prone to turning into a giant mess of inactivity.

On the other hand, this is a great setup for F2F mafia, it just doesn't translate well into forums.

With all of that said, I don't hold ill will towards anyone in this game, and I'd play with all of you again. I totally blame TTH for my presence in the game though. Your fault. Live with it.

[Jingle]

I mean I hate your fucking guts but still thanks

My only option other than hammering you was to lurk until I got replaced. I have never replaced out of a game, and I don't ever intend to. Not to mention that is strategic replacement, which I view as actively cheating.

We lost when TTH voted. In essence, either IC held the hammer vote, it only lasted until one of them chose to vote.

[Jingle]

gj town

Jingle you were pretty obv fmpov

Oh, god yeah. All you had to do to get me lynched was bring up ikaruga. I just didn't really want to put effort in.

[Jingle]

I do have a special attachment to Jingle so I won't vote him yet. Not without cold, hard evidence in the form of a flip.

Also, best post this game.