Micro 387: Double Day Unlimited (GAME OVER)
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TheAdrienC Goon
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TheAdrienC Goon
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So anyway, I never properly introduced myself. I'm Adrien. You're free to call me Ade. I think the only one here I am familiar with here is NotMafia. So I'm going to do a few posts going over what I'm reading with a fresh set of eyes, starting on page one. I'll try to spread them across a few posts so it's easier to read.
Mod slipped that the scum faction only has pre-game and night talk on 2. That favors us just a little bit and we know they can't communicate during the day.
Not a fan on the "vote everyone" strategy by Oka as with only a five person needed for an opening lynch and makes a mislynch very easy for the scum to achieve, which is why I don't like NotMafia going along with it a whole lot less. You essentially put everyone at L-3 and even if both of you were town, imagine one other townsperson puts a random vote up, you have them at L-2 with what I assume is two scums running around (numbers and the sample Role PMs saying "your PARTNER is..." as clues for that) is a very dangerous thing to do. So shame on both of you, a little more bad for NM than Oka.
I like how ProHawk put some pressure on NM for his very anti-town actions I outlined above.
The fact he said he may have been somewhat serious at 25 makes me feel even worse about NM.
Skipping ahead to 47, while they're openings were similar, I don't think both of them are scum. One scum in that group is much more likely. It would be very VERY foolish of a scum team to open up like that together.
I do agree with 54 when Flubber said that scum isn't interested in townhunting. He's right, they know who the town is. They need to appear as town as possible by pretending to scumhunt.
61 makes me shake my head. If I'm not mistaken, we are all VTs or goons.
More to come.-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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Damn guys, I come back home and you've practically doubled what I needed to read. I see Droog took the "just give me a summary" bit so I'll accept a summary as well. But I do have some questions.
Oka, Hawk...everyone I guess: Did NotMafia do anything to begin to earn your trust as he was hella scummy in the early stages of the game that I combed through?
Heph, you seem to be pointing your guns at the person I had the biggest town read, can you please summarize your case on him?
droog: You didn't like how I pointed out it was to our (the town's) advantage that the scum doesn't have day talk in a game where we have two day lynches, which means they can only communicate between every other lynch and have very little time working together. You don't think that pointing that out is to our advantage where the first lynch of a day could throw off plans of theirs without them knowing what to do next? If you don't think that is advantageous of us to know, why not?
Also, for everyone, is none, one, or both scum on the Flubbernugget lynch?-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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So on the lynch was Xayzeck, OkaPoka, hephaestus, Not_Mafia, roseylily. Off was Prohawk, scrambles (now droog), and my slot. While I'm not committing to the one on, one off theory yet, this information could be useful in the latter parts of the game.
You don't exactly enthused about NM with that question mark there so I'm going to officially cast my vote.
Vote: Not_Mafia-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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Did you mess up to quote tag or are you trying to pin your words on Oka? Also, saying that scum was more likely to do it and then putting a vote on me must mean something in terms of scumminess. Also, why exactly are you asking for a read on Oka? I'll go over his posts and give you one, but why him specifically?-
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In post 497, hephaestus wrote:Adrien 376 is already a pretty straightforward explanation of my vote, see above for hopefully some more clarity or feel free to ask whatever is unclear to you
Alright, I understand your vote. Not going to join in unless I see something else, but I at least understand your vote. I'll have my Oka read for droog after I get home from work tonight.-
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In post 470, droog wrote:In post 425, TheAdrienC wrote:
Mod slipped that thescum faction only has pre-game and night talkon 2. That favors us just a little bit and we know they can't communicate during the day.
small stuff: who else noticed this?Much more likely scum would noticemissing daytalk than town.
Not a fan on the "vote everyone" strategy by Oka as with only a five person needed for an opening lynch and makes a mislynch very easy for the scum to achieve,
this is a really watery, easy thing to condemn. I don't like it.
Adrien, please explain your oka read, and dazzle me with a vote on your top scumread
That right there was you calling me scum over it. Don't backtrack.
Also, I never claimed Oka was my top scumread. I said Not_Mafia was because it was even worse for him to do it after Oka did it in the first place. Also, don't say I'm refusing to give you my read on Oka when I clearly stated I would do it after I come home from work, which I just got home from?
In post 502, droog wrote:Adrien my excuse for posting nonsense is that I'm on a phone. What's yours
Why would you accuse me of shifting my case to Oka
Occam's Razor
You said I didn't like your post -- wtf does that mean if you aren't accusing me of calling you scummy
I was asking you for your Oka read because you made a very easy criticism of him and I wanted to hear your full opinion
Still want to hear it
What the hell? I never said you were shifting your case on Oka. While you've bugged me about my read on him, you've kept your guns pointing at me. Find a post where I said you were shifting your case onto Oka. Your posts are not making one lick of sense. I also do not like the way you are twisting my votes to make me look scummy for reasons you are making up.
Now that I'm home from work and have replied to your idiot ramblings, I'll go over Oka's posts and see if I can give you detailed read. Right now, I'm kinda null on him as a whole.
By the way,Vote: Droogfor twisting crap. Kinda similar to Lynch All Liars at this point.-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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Adrien's read on OkaPoka
Though I didn't like his initial votes on everyone and it was a bit hypocritical of him to attack NM, it was something a townie would do. His post 30 especially pointed out that Not_Mafia's tactics were not town.
He was right in post 53 that it's unlikely for him to be scumbuddies with NM unless they are really good bussers. Post 61 was an eyeroller. He prodded some inactives by voting for them to get them wrangled into the discussion, something I can see town doing on Day 1.
He has voted a few times without explaining, something I'm uncomfortable with, which takes away a few of his good points. I also feel like he was back and forth on pushing the flubber lynch, something I feel like scum knowing it's a mislynch might do (towards the end might have just been his survival instinct, but before he was even close to the noose, it looked flipfloppy). He also went back and forth on Hawk, calling him a top town read then a scum read very quickly, but reads are supposed to evolve, I suppose (he also voted Rosey after saying prior to the Flubber lynch that she was in his "never vote" pool). His self hammer makes me uncomfortable, but I can't see scum doing it unless it was a very ballsy gambit.
Overall, I have a middle ground read on Oka, but I explained why I have some town vibes and some scum vibes on him. Is that a good enough case for my null read?-
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In post 529, ProHawk wrote:Heph if oka flips scum does that make me town?
I know this wasn't directed at me, if Oka flipped scum, I think the only person my read would improve upon would be NM. I can't see both of them being scum.-
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In post 534, ProHawk wrote:All I have got is Oka at the top as far as town reads, and Heph at the bottom as far as scum reads. Haven't really sorted the in-between yet.
That's fair. Can you give me a summary for both of those reads?-
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In post 536, ProHawk wrote:Heph feels like scum pushing his case, he seems to have a good handle of whats going on but is pushing me for hypothetical stuff using Oka's alignment as a crutch when we haven't even seen his alignment yet. His predecessor was also really distant and anti-town.
Oka's near death flail was really town, or EXTREMELY good acting.
You and Doog feel like town v town arguing.
Not real sure about Xayxeck and I thought rose was town last I remember.
N_M is about the most middle of the road that I have.
I was thinking that about Oka. I didn't like a few things he did early on, but I'm having a hard time seeing him doing that as scum.
I'm gonna be the bigger person andUnvote: Droog. I'll do a run down similar to what I did on Oka for Not_Mafia and explain why my vote is on him or if anything suddenly sticks out as a reason to take my vote off of him.-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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In post 587, hephaestus wrote:In post 582, ProHawk wrote:Which means people on the last-minute-get-a-lynch-train will go... oh, the only one close enough to lynch is Oka. Vote Oka. Vote Oka cause we can't no lynch! Vote. Oka.
Why don'tyouvote Oka?
He was being sarcastic.-
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TheAdrienC
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In post 649, Not_Mafia wrote:VOTE: TheAdrienC
I actually found Oka's reaction to my hammer towny, droog's too but less so, although I'm townreading him anyway. Adrien's push on me however has been really weak and robotic "voting everyone is bad and quickhammering is bad, bad things mean scum" when he knows it's not that simple firsthand.
So another word's, this is a "YOU'RE VOTING FOR ME SO I'M VOTING FOR YOU!!"-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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Are you referring to Juls from Toomai. Because there was a reason Juls ended up being lynched. Because it was an ANTI-TOWN action. EVEN SHE ADMITTED THAT IN THE END. Your actions were anti-town and you have been skating throughout this entire game, as previously mentioned by people other than myself. My other vote is in pencil, but my vote for you, unless something drastic happens, is in ink.-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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TheAdrienC
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In post 660, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 657, TheAdrienC wrote:And yes, it DID address what you said.
It didn't, you've basically analysed me and Oka voting everyone and my quickhammer and nothing in between except accusations leveled at you. All you've done is either reactionary or picking out that easiest things you can pick on with no real consideration.
Who is my partner? Who is scum if I flip town?
I'll need to do some analysis to find your partner or the scum if I'm wrong about you. Droog and Xay are most likely to be your partners if not partnered together.
And part of mafia is reacting to all of the things that happen in this thread. Reacting to information and the people here is where we find out who is scum and who is town.
You've played with me when I was scum. Remember how I played that game? Am I the same or different than I was in that game?
And do me a favor, if I'm wrong about you. Don't just point the finger back at me. Give me something useful to make sure we find the real scum, NM. Find the scum, and maybe I will point my guns at someone else. Because that's the main reason I've been voting you since I came in. Look at your ISO, NM. You're not scumhunting. You started off trolling, all the way up to triple digits of posts, you were more interesting in trolling everyone than finding scum. Trolling and voting for everyone saying "Oh, I'm not unvoting until I figure out otherwise". Fact is, you haven't made a single post longer than a few lines the entire game. You have not been helping us find scum, all while being on two mislynches. What side would commit those actions? Are you town, NM? Then show me. Don't tell me, show me. If you can show me that you are serious about finding scum, I'll take my vote off. But until then, my vote remains and I believe you to be scum.-
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In post 680, Xayzeck wrote:notmafia votes are dumb
adrien votes are meh
oka votes should be here, don't know why they aren't
droog could be town now
i need to look at isos
Are you saying votes on me are meh (and votes on NM are dumb) of that the votes I have MADE are meh and the votes NM have made are dumb? If the former, that means you have a townread on NM and I would like to hear about it if you do. Also, your read on droog also flipped. What caused that?-
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In post 689, droog wrote:I generally think you're town
but would be more confident if you posted more
I got burned on my replace in scum reads
Still think it's Adrien
Then Xay or nm
ghouhts?
So an NM/Xay scum team is plausible to you?-
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In post 689, droog wrote:I generally think you're town
but would be more confident if you posted more
I got burned on my replace in scum reads
Still think it's Adrien
Then Xay or nm
ghouhts?
Bold part. I know I'm town. I'm trying to figure out who the two scums are.-
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In post 697, ProHawk wrote:Do you think Droog is town?
I'm split on him, still fairly suspicious of him though. But I'm focusing more on my scumreads than my "null-leaning scum" reads.-
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In post 721, OkaPoka wrote:Voting. Sorry im really tired right now
I explained why voting everyone is bad right here.
In post 425, TheAdrienC wrote:Not a fan on the "vote everyone" strategy by Oka as with only a five person needed for an opening lynch and makes a mislynch very easy for the scum to achieve, which is why I don't like NotMafia going along with it a whole lot less. You essentially put everyone at L-3 and even if both of you were town, imagine one other townsperson puts a random vote up, you have them at L-2 with what I assume is two scums running around (numbers and the sample Role PMs saying "your PARTNER is..." as clues for that) is a very dangerous thing to do. So shame on both of you, a little more bad for NM than Oka.-
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Two scum. You two opened up RVS with everyone at L-2. What happens when one person puts up an actual random vote? L-2. Two scum. Hypothetically, if you're town, you're handing the scum the power to mislynch. Unlimited votes is a good way to mask stuff like that and allow for mislynches. What side wants to do that? Scum. And you need to answer the questions I asked you, NM.-
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He hasn't been an active scumhunter, mostly trolled the entire game, his response to my vote was an OMGUS vote, he spat in my face when I reached out to him and ignored questions I presented him when I was giving him an opportunity to prove to me that he is town. Do you at least understand my vote on him, Xay or do I need to do a more detailed case on him?-
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And do you know what annoys me? People saying "I did this as town in that game so I must be town in this game". Like you just did below. No. Just no. People alter their meta all the time. More likely they can do it if they are aware of their meta.
In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:What questions?
And you think scum are going to quickhammer someone and out themselves the instant someone reaches L-2? This is just a boogeyman. I don't care how many scum there are,I will put someone at L-1 in RVS if it will help me pressure someone and get reads.
If you don't think that is an anti-town action, you really are thick
Your case on me is this
-I voted everyone
-I hammered without intent
-I was on both d1 wagons
I was also on most wagons in Toomai's game, I was town there, no mention of this from you. No actual analysis or consideration for any context for anything. No effort to think "Well would scum really attract this much attention to themselves pre-LyLo?" or "Well what if he was saving an Oka lynch? Although now he's changed his read" or "How significant is voting in RVS in this set-up, do people do it a lot? How long did it take for him to back down, was it only because he was getting negative attention for it?" or anything else. Just "Bad things are scum".
Wow, just what your case needed, a big pile of WIFOM.
In post 726, TheAdrienC wrote:His response to my vote was an OMGUS vote
Define OMGUS
Your vote on me was mostly because you didn't like my vote on you.
In post 726, TheAdrienC wrote: he spat in my face when I reached out to him
What has got to do with anything? Why should that post have affected my scumread on you?
In my opinion, if you were town, you would have been a bit more cordial to helping find scum other than have a hissy fit.-
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In post 732, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 730, TheAdrienC wrote:And do you know what annoys me? People saying "I did this as town in that game so I must be town in this game". Like you just did below. No. Just no. People alter their meta all the time. More likely they can do it if they are aware of their meta.
It's lucky I never said this then
Lies. Below is a specific part of your last quote inserted by me
In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:I was also on most wagons in Toomai's game, I was town there, no mention of this from you. No actual analysis or consideration for any context for anything.
In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:Your case on me is this
-I voted everyone
-I hammered without intent
-I was on both d1 wagons
I was also on most wagons in Toomai's game, I was town there, no mention of this from you. No actual analysis or consideration for any context for anything. No effort to think "Well would scum really attract this much attention to themselves pre-LyLo?" or "Well what if he was saving an Oka lynch? Although now he's changed his read" or "How significant is voting in RVS in this set-up, do people do it a lot? How long did it take for him to back down, was it only because he was getting negative attention for it?" or anything else. Just "Bad things are scum".
Wow, just what your case needed, a big pile of WIFOM.
Are you going to respond to my case, or just continue to throw the buzzwords at it?
That's exactly what your case is completely built on, you thick, thick person. Saying "Would scum do (insert action you did)" is WIFOM or do I need to define it. The Oka lynch saving is something that I did too, by the way. And just because you were stubborn to very stupid actions you took doesn't reflect on what alignment you are.
In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 726, TheAdrienC wrote:His response to my vote was an OMGUS vote
Define OMGUS
Your vote on me was mostly because you didn't like my vote on you.
OMGUS is voting someone purely because they voted you. Voting someone because you think their push on you is scummy isn't OMGUS.
No, that's just the excuse everyone uses when they are committing OMGUS. Droog hates me as much as you do and he thought it was OMGUS too.
In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 726, TheAdrienC wrote: he spat in my face when I reached out to him
What has got to do with anything? Why should that post have affected my scumread on you?
In my opinion, if you were town, you would have been a bit more cordial to helping find scum other than have a hissy fit.
Please quote where I'm having a hissy fit. And I think you're scum, why should your reachout have affected that?
As for your hissy fit, revisit this.
In post 656, Not_Mafia wrote:So is this a policy lynch or a scum lynch? And that didn't actually address what I said.
You accuse me voting for my top scumread as a policy lynch.
In post 654, Not_Mafia wrote:After subbing in you've pushed on me for voting everyone and analysed little else, everything after that was reactionary, until my quickhammer. You've just pushed on the easiest things you can find
Whining I've been pushing for you since I came in and said "Oh, you're just doing it because I'm an easy target..."-
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In post 737, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 732, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 730, TheAdrienC wrote:And do you know what annoys me? People saying "I did this as town in that game so I must be town in this game". Like you just did below. No. Just no. People alter their meta all the time. More likely they can do it if they are aware of their meta.
It's lucky I never said this then
Lies. Below is a specific part of your last quote inserted by me
In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:I was also on most wagons in Toomai's game, I was town there, no mention of this from you. No actual analysis or consideration for any context for anything.
Nowhere there did I say I was town for it. I said you know this is behaviour I've exhibited as town and you're not considering it in your read.
You were strongly implying it by having it be a cornerstone of your defense.
In post 737, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 732, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:Your case on me is this
-I voted everyone
-I hammered without intent
-I was on both d1 wagons
I was also on most wagons in Toomai's game, I was town there, no mention of this from you. No actual analysis or consideration for any context for anything. No effort to think "Well would scum really attract this much attention to themselves pre-LyLo?" or "Well what if he was saving an Oka lynch? Although now he's changed his read" or "How significant is voting in RVS in this set-up, do people do it a lot? How long did it take for him to back down, was it only because he was getting negative attention for it?" or anything else. Just "Bad things are scum".
Wow, just what your case needed, a big pile of WIFOM.
Are you going to respond to my case, or just continue to throw the buzzwords at it?
That's exactly what your case is completely built on, you thick, thick person. Saying "Would scum do (insert action you did)" is WIFOM or do I need to define it. The Oka lynch saving is something that I did too, by the way. And just because you were stubborn to very stupid actions you took doesn't reflect on what alignment you are.
"Would scum do this?" is the entire point of the game, not WIFOM. But by all means continue to throw insults and buzzwords rather than actually respond
Alright, allow me to physically define it since what I'm saying is going over your head. By saying you were doing something and that you wouldn't be doing that as scum could be you doing it as scum just to appear as town. That is what we call "wine in front of me" and I don't care if you think it's a buzzword, there's a reason it exists and it was part of everyone's case on me in the Toomai game. By saying "Hey, I did this! It makes more sense for me to do this as town than scum!" is something that I'm going to be very cautious to believe. As should anyone be if anyone uses such a tactic to try to convince anyone their town, including if I use it with you.
In post 737, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 732, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 726, TheAdrienC wrote:His response to my vote was an OMGUS vote
Define OMGUS
Your vote on me was mostly because you didn't like my vote on you.
OMGUS is voting someone purely because they voted you. Voting someone because you think their push on you is scummy isn't OMGUS.
No, that's just the excuse everyone uses when they are committing OMGUS. Droog hates me as much as you do and he thought it was OMGUS too.
If I'm making an excuse then respond to my case and shows that it's nonsense
Present an actual concrete case and I will respond to it.
In post 737, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 730, TheAdrienC wrote:In post 732, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 727, Not_Mafia wrote:In post 726, TheAdrienC wrote: he spat in my face when I reached out to him
What has got to do with anything? Why should that post have affected my scumread on you?
In my opinion, if you were town, you would have been a bit more cordial to helping find scum other than have a hissy fit.
Please quote where I'm having a hissy fit. And I think you're scum, why should your reachout have affected that?
As for your hissy fit, revisit this.
In post 656, Not_Mafia wrote:So is this a policy lynch or a scum lynch? And that didn't actually address what I said.
You accuse me voting for my top scumread as a policy lynch.
In post 654, Not_Mafia wrote:After subbing in you've pushed on me for voting everyone and analysed little else, everything after that was reactionary, until my quickhammer. You've just pushed on the easiest things you can find
Whining I've been pushing for you since I came in and said "Oh, you're just doing it because I'm an easy target..."
The first quote if I asked if you just want to PL me. It's a valid question, we're pre-LyLo and if you don't want someone in LyLo as policy you have to push it as a scum/utility lynch sometimes. The second quote is contingent on you actually responding to my case.
If it was a policy lynch, I wouldn't have laid out reasons why I thought you were scum. And what have I not responded to and what exactly is your case?
In post 737, Not_Mafia wrote:And both of those quotes came before your reachout post, you said I threw a hissy fit in response to it. And you still haven't answered the original question of why that post should have affected my scumread on you.
And are you really going to push "throwing a hissy fit" as a scumtell and "being cordial" as a towntell and make posts like this...
Spoiler:
All of that was AFTER my reach out. Thanks for taking that out of context and all. Gloves were off after your response there. If you reached out to me, I would have been cordial.-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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TheAdrienC Goon
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We apparently reached the quotes within quotes limit so I'm going to reply to each section with line breaks.
I hate using meta as a way to clear someone becausepeople can manipulate their meta. Meta has a place in catching scum, but it should NEVER be used to clear someone. I've got games where I was town and I looked similar to this game. You going to let me go if I link you to that? No, you shouldn't. Becausepeople can manipulate their meta!And if that's your attack on me, then you obviously don't get that or my playstyle because just because someone looks similar to how they played as town in another game doesn't grant them automatic town-confirmation.
Quote it now or remove you vote. I've asked several times for your case on me. You've ignored every single request.
I considered that spitting in my face because when I was saying both of us were using reactions, you said that mine wasn't a reaction, it was in retaliation. You accused me of retaliating to you which effective was your response to me reaching out. I considered that you slapping my hand back when I was reaching out.
Which I love how it's retaliation WHEN YOUR CASE IS APPARENTLY THAT I'M IGNORING YOUR TOWN META AND VOTING FOR YOU.
And my reach out shouldn't have affected your read on me. It was a chance for you to improve my read on you. And if my read on you had changed, then we might not be in this mess and we might be finding something out about the other players instead of going at each other's throats.-
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TheAdrienC Goon
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TheAdrienC Goon
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