Micro 377: Vengeballs. OVER!!!

[Espressojet]

/Comfirmo

[Espressojet]

UNLIMITED NUMBER OF VENGEBALLS?!?!?!?

VOTE: Skelda
VOTE: NakedJogger
VOTE: Bullish
VOTE: aphix
VOTE: ZZZX
VOTE: Espressojet
VOTE: Clusk92
VOTE: Csareo
VOTE: Dr Pants

[Espressojet]

UNVOTE:

[Espressojet]

Vote Espresso

I am sad im not scum in this :/ are you?

Yeah, I'm godfather with Csar-

no its Csareo and Espresso

they earn the RVS scum reads

OH EM GEEZEE

{howdidheknow?}

[Espressojet]

no its Csareo and Espresso

they earn the RVS scum reads

yeah lets start

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Csareo

"we need to take our time and make sure to hit scum"

"random vote"

"join my wagon"

do you see how these statements don't match?

[Espressojet]

Shit I hit submit

hold up

wait
one sec
just
wait
hold up

[Espressojet]

no its Csareo and Espresso

they earn the RVS scum reads

It ok, they got us. Time to turn ourselves in.

yeah lets start

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Csareo

NOOOO, don't vote my scumbuddy!!!

"we need to take our time and make sure to hit scum"

"random vote"

"join my wagon"

do you see how these statements don't match?

In all honesty though, there are some clear scum intentions there, more in a sec.

PEdit: Sorry I read the flavor, pants.

[Espressojet]

I've only played one game with two mafias before.
As the OP said, town doesn't have much chances of winning.

We need to take our time and make sure to hit scum on day one.

Random Vote
VOTE: clusk92

Ok, so real talk time now.

In my experience with the game last time around everybody in the game is going to want to scumhunt, ESPECIALLY MAFIA. Now this is just a preface, and I'm not accusing anyone of scum for scum

hunting

but it may as well be said that townreads should not be given so lightheartedly this game.

So what does this have to do with this post? Not very much specifically, sorry, it's just a really important piece of information so I wanted to make sure everybody read it. (Though pants does have a point, the above post is a tad scummy)

[Espressojet]

"we need to take our time and make sure to hit scum"

"random vote"

"join my wagon"

do you see how these statements don't match?

I used random.org's list widget
http://www.random.org/lists/

There were 9 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

Espressojet

ZZZX
NakedJogger
Dr Pants
Csareo
aphix
Skelda
Clusk92
Bullish
Timestamp: 2014-08-16 23:46:06 UTC

Well, tickle my pickle, looks like I'm scum.

Told you guys.

[Espressojet]

Hello there peoples.

So basically I've been thinking about this setup and, since every kill in this game is town-controlled, what is the point of any of us ever vengekilling? Wouldn't it be better to lynch so we gain info and if the person being lynched is a godfather, their teammates die? Or do people just enjoy their bursts of power?

At worst, we could just all make an agreement to lynch the person who would've been vengekilled next, if that makes sense. Since lynching has no drawbacks and vengekilling does.

You see, this is a great concept

on paper

, but the truth is that there's no guarantee that people will follow through.

For example, assuming ZZZX is town, and ends up lynched. He may 1) not have time to say "intention to venge-kill ____" before he gets lynched, or 2) choose somebody whom everybody else currently reads as town. There is power in the venge kill because it GUARANTEES a kill on whomever you want, no bullshit involved. (or another outcome where not venge-killing correctly makes the town lose, but we don't have to worry about that just yet)

PEdit: Csareo, that was MY list. I am allowed to use the website as well as yourself.

[Espressojet]

(I chose ZZZX because he was the next on the list^)

[Espressojet]

If enough people disagree with a venge-kill, it simply won't happen.

[Espressojet]

There were 9 items in

your

list. Here they are in random order:

Espressojet

ZZZX
NakedJogger
Dr Pants
Csareo
aphix
Skelda
Clusk92
Bullish
Timestamp: 2014-08-16 23:46:06 UTC

Well, tickle my pickle, looks like I'm scum.

Told you guys.

[/quote]

I don't... what?

[Espressojet]

We'd have to get the majority to agree before the hammer.

You also have to convince the person being lynched to trust the rest of the group with the kill.

[Espressojet]

I think it's a lovely idea, I'm just not sure it'd play out...

I'm down to give it a shot.

[Espressojet]

Venge kills > lynches because venge kills are guaranteed made by town, while lynches are at least part scum directed.

I've played 2 multi-ball games before, one as scum and one as town. The key is to limit information flow.

I get what you're saying on the top part, but explain how limiting information is key.

Espresso didn't play the same way in both town games. But when he was under pressure, he consistently had 2 kinds of responses: frustration/paranoia and defeat. He has never, ever, gone for the jokey sarcastic route. He also knows me well enough to know that my scum read on him was serious. He has also never been this eager to talk setup strategy. Right now he looks spastic, he isn't pushing for any scum at all, is only talking setup, and is defending my read on him with sarcastic posts admitting he's scum.

A sample size of two? You must be the best scientist ever!

I play whatever suits my mood at that point in time, right now I'm sick of waiting for people to post in other games, so I'm pretty excited for the new Dr. P game which just started oh wait this is it.

I try to mix up my playstyles every game, even just a little. I've said it before and I'll say it again "People play differently in different games"

I mean, come on buddy. I don't think you're necessarily scum, but this push is dumb and just plain wrong! Was I not part of the initial setup discussion in FTL? Did you ever consider I may have opened sarcastically in one of the many games I've played without you? You "knew" I was scum by the third page?

I'm not very good at scumhunting, I'll be the first to admit, but I take TIME to develop my reads.

Also, I did NOT know that your initial scumreads was serious, which is why I continued to be sarcastic, and which is why I'm currently upset with you.

[Espressojet]

One thing more, pants: you were also wrong about my being scum in those two games I was town. If you're so sure you can use both of those games as evidence against me, why have you not considered this?

Has anyone ever told you the definition of insanity?

[Espressojet]

The fact that you had to clarify it though...

... Doesn't necessarily help your case

[Espressojet]

One thing more, pants: you were also wrong about my being scum in those two games I was town. If you're so sure you can use both of those games as evidence against me, why have you not considered this?

Has anyone ever told you the definition of insanity?

lol what. by the end of day 1 in both games i was town reading you

Does page three look like the end of day one?

[Espressojet]

Straight up lied? When?

I wasn't suggesting you were bad at reading you. You townread me in other games, you'll do so here as well in time.

[Espressojet]

oh
well i misunderstood then
my bad

Straight up lied? When?

I wasn't suggesting you were bad at reading

me.

You townread me in other games, you'll do so here as well in time.

Me* sorry, I'm drunk

[Espressojet]

I didn't mean to quote that top one

[Espressojet]

I feel like this was a misunderstanding, rather than a scummy lynch push.

I'd hate to see someone get scumreads just because of a little interpretation issue.

Now, of course, there's an ok chance he actually IS scum (along with everyone else's chance to be scum), and there could be real scum intention behind these words, but I just don't see it right now.

[Espressojet]

But- But then how will people know my vote history??

(<3)

[Espressojet]

Actually, "The Entire Freaking Playerlist" suits me just fine.

[Espressojet]

The hell are you talking about? The best scumplay IMO is to scumhunt for the other team!

I was scum last vengeball game, and that's what made sense to me

[Espressojet]

Nah, Boonskiies fucked things up for me. I wasn't about to get lynched anytime soon, and I thought he was scum, but he was town and venge-killed me out of spite

[Espressojet]

Eh... You're right, actually...

[Espressojet]

I do think Csareo is wrong in his scum tactics post, but like the Legend of Skelda, I rather think him town. Being wrong doesn't make you scum. If it did, every time there was a mislynch we'd have half the playerlist up in strings on a moment's notice in every game.

By the way, what is NakedJogger's obsession with nudity? You're a few keystrokes away from satisfaction, buddy. No need to take it out on the rest of us. (Ha! "take it out"!)

[Espressojet]

Also, nobody should be keeping their scumreads to themselves.

That's just dumb.

[Espressojet]

One of you ass kissers is scum.

That awkward moment when you can't spell

[Espressojet]

You are a bit eager to lynch, but I have a town read on you for scum hunting.
I don't like having these games move to fast.

Didn't I already say that scumhunting should not equal a town read? The scum are obviously going to scumhunt for the opposite team!

hes taking the game way too casually to be scum hunting

him and naked jogger

wheres the paranoia? wheres the fear of messing up for your team, composed of members you aren't supposed to know?

I'm actually totally sick right now, so scumhunting is rather difficult for me at the moment. Once the fog dissipates I'll be able to contribute more accurately and less casually.

PEdit: Lol

[Espressojet]

You are a bit eager to lynch, but I have a town read on you for scum hunting.
I don't like having these games move to fast.

Didn't I already say that scumhunting should not equal a town read? The scum are obviously going to scumhunt for the opposite team!

hes taking the game way too casually to be scum hunting

him and naked jogger

wheres the paranoia? wheres the fear of messing up for your team, composed of members you aren't supposed to know?

I'm actually totally sick right now, so scumhunting is rather difficult for me at the moment. Once the fog dissipates I'll be able to contribute more accurately and less casually.

PEdit: Lol

PPEdit: Goddamnit, let me fucking post this!

[Espressojet]

I don't even what happen right now

[Espressojet]

Haha, thanks for the support guys! Tea has been helping quite a bit.

I want to give you a top scumread, but everybody who has been actively contributing is currently among my townreads (not for that reason), which gives me four townreads (Pants, Csar, Skelda, self), so by process of elimination I can rightfully say that scum is lurking right now.

Also Clusk hasn't posted since RVS.

If I was forced to give a singular name I'd probably say ZZZX. I want to justify this, now that I'm actually looking at it. Every post of his is "I am town" and he's obviously lurking on purpose due to his post history.

[Espressojet]

Hey, that wasn't too hard! I think I'm doubting myself too much.

[Espressojet]

thinking about it, i think the best thing for this game is to be transparent about town reads, and to highly encourage activity

scum reads are going to fluctuate a bit, but keeping a consistent track of who is town (ie actively town), who is scummy (actively scummy), and who is lurking, is going to end up being important.

the fact that we haven't heard anything really from clusk and ZZZX makes me worry, especially ZZZX.

Oh wait, now I just look like a sheep... I don't remember this post.

[Espressojet]

I can give another name if you want, otherwise I'm going to go sleep, I need rest for tomorrow.

[Espressojet]

KK, gnite, hopefully everyone else lurks less

[Espressojet]

I'm confident on NakedJogger/ZZZX being scum, most likely from different teams.

Sinus headache's gone, so that's an improvement

[Espressojet]

Pants.

No.

[Espressojet]

NakedJogger hopping on the ZZZX train to avoid all that pressure coming upon them.

Me no like

[Espressojet]

Of course the same could be said about me in regards to Pants' stance dance

[Espressojet]

I have an inkling that ZZZX us godfather and Pants could be his scum goon. If pants has no affiliation with ZZZX then he's probably town.

[Espressojet]

Why is ZZZX so low on his scumreads?

[Espressojet]

Why would you vengekill ZZZX over your three scummier reads?

[Espressojet]

If you had no net, how were you posting in other games?

[Espressojet]

Forum ate my post last night and I got a prod, great.

I'd be fine lynching ZZZX or yourself NJ. We have over five days left, and my stances on whom I am scum are clear (to my knowledge) so explain to me why I should feel such an immense pressure to place my vote right now.

[Espressojet]

Forum ate my post last night and I got a prod, great.

I'd be fine lynching ZZZX or yourself NJ. We have over five days left, and my stances on whom I am scum are clear (to my knowledge) so explain to me why I should feel such an immense pressure to place my vote right now.

I want to know what's going on with you and why you're not voting ZZZX.

I want to know why it's so important to you.

We have four days. That's a point I'm fairly comfortable with where we are at now. I'm just concerned with the replacements. Always gives me concerns where there is a replace in. They've obviously read the thread by their own accord and have yet to make any sort of posts.

Honestly Espresso continued lack of activity even after being put to l-2 makes me even more happy with lynching this slot, and I'd gladly have people sheep me there.

I was at l-2? I honestly had no idea.

[Espressojet]

I agree, everything is extremely sluggish at this point

[Espressojet]

NJ/ZZZX

[Espressojet]

I want to know why it's so important to you.

You're making it get important by dodging a legitimate question like that? Are you scum?

Did you not read 242?

[Espressojet]

Forum ate my post last night and I got a prod, great.

I'd be fine lynching ZZZX or yourself NJ.

We have over five days left, and my stances on whom I am scum are clear (to my knowledge) so explain to me why I should feel such an immense pressure to place my vote right now.

Just gonna put this here for you so you can have the pleasure of reading it again.

[Espressojet]

^Lol

[Espressojet]

Forum ate my post last night and I got a prod, great.

I'd be fine lynching ZZZX or yourself NJ.

We have over five days left, and my stances on whom I am scum are clear (to my knowledge) so explain to me why I should feel such an immense pressure to place my vote right now.

Just gonna put this here for you so you can have the pleasure of reading it again.

If it's clear to you who is scum. Why not participate in the game and help others become clear? Help generate discussion? Or be scum motivated and help build town apathy and let the day ride out hopefully into a speed lynch on town, or a nl. Good plan.

I was saying that it was clear who I THOUGHT was scum, as I've stated it multiple times, and my cases against them.

The reason I'm not voting is because I don't want a lynch to happen

right now

. Why do so when we can squeeze some more information out of everyone and, on the chance of a mislynch, hopefully give the vengekill more guiding information to help us find scum. Of course, now that we have three days left, seeing the activity of the game as it stands, NOW would be an appropriate time to cast out a vote.

Of course, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now if I wanted to have voted with all this upcoming pressure and nearly half of the current town's discussion (as little of it as there is) being focused on the fact that "OMGZ HURRDURRSPRESSOJET ISN'T VOTING SO HE MUST BE SCUMM" I would have been charged with the fact that I was simply voting to get the pressure off me because "I don't want them to find out that I'm scum".

But whatever, fuck it.

VOTE: ZZZX

NJ, I'm going to be voting you potentially for the entire duration of day two.

[Espressojet]

I would hammer NJ if people put her at L-1. I feel stronger about ZZZX, but I'd still go for Naked. I mean, there is no night kill, so there's really nothing to lose from lynching one scumread over another if you believe they would both eventually be lynched.

[Espressojet]

I'm willing to shift over to NJ if enough people comply.

Would still rather lynch ZZZX

[Espressojet]

There is no night kill this game, right? It's just a majority at the deadline.

[Espressojet]

I believe ZZZX is at l-1

[Espressojet]

Where did you reaction test?

[Espressojet]

Great white-knighting at twilight there.

[Espressojet]

VOTE: NakedJogger

VOTE: NakedJogger

[Espressojet]

Why the self-vote?

[Espressojet]

L-1

[Espressojet]

Because my read on ZZZX was shit. And I probably persuaded him to shoot Skelda.

unvote

It was my way of saying:

I know how fucking scummy I look right now. Even more so that I don't have anything to say about that reaction test. I was just thinking I should do one but couldn't think of anything other than claiming to have done one on Skelda to see how people would react. I don't know how to interpret the results, sadly.

AtE. Can we get a hammer?

[Espressojet]

A self vote with no supporting text around it cannot be taken lightly. It was obviously a way to get pressure off of himself, and judging by the words "I know how fucking scummy I look right now" He's obviously desperate and this looks like an attempt out of desperation. A reaction test to make yourself look town?

I know that if NJ gets lynched and flips town he's going to shoot me, so somebody hammer because I'm pretty damn sure he's scum, and even if I read him wrong, odds are he's scum anyways (66%).

[Espressojet]

NJ thinks I'm scum.

I'd go for an Aphix lynch tomorrow. He's second on the scumlist after NJ.

[Espressojet]

Hardly ignoring espresso. Just don't see that moving anywhere, and the self vote and the coinciding post by NJ is definitely much more concerning to me. Considering also the flips obviously two of my town reads are scum. If not more. If you don't understand my reasoning I don't see any other way to explain it.

Also, MMEek, ever stop to think that Espresso post there that devalues your theory is going to be something that scum would post about town in this situation? Especially going from having no established reads on me in thread, to me being his number two scum read above all others? Hmm ... Good to know you don't believe in double standards MMEek.

Should I lynch you now, is that what you're asking for? I'd gladly do it, it's just I want to lynch NJ more.

[Espressojet]

Whatever, you guys know how I stand. I'm probably not going to post much more until I calm down from getting lynched from a vote that happened post-deadline in another game.

I'm just fucking pissed.

Someone hammer NJ while I'm gone, or get Aphix to l-1 so I can hammer when I get back.

[Espressojet]

OK, this thread is dying slowly.

Dr Pants, MME, Bullish, tell me why you don't want to hammer NJ.

[Espressojet]

If somebody puts Aphix at l-1 I'd be OK with hammering

[Espressojet]

Mmmm that was really fast

[Espressojet]

Fuck it, I said I would.

VOTE: Aphix

[Espressojet]

Yaaaay! There was no QT, NJ

[Espressojet]

Therebwas a qt. I was lonely.

That... Makes a lot of sense...

[Espressojet]

I did post some thoughts in there.

Yeah, I actually remember looking at it once I think...

[Espressojet]

Oh, yeah, I think It was locked the first time I saw it, so I couldn't post and it didn't show up in my post history and I just forgot about it completely... oops.

That would have been really helpful. Ah well, we still won eh? Great job on your part!

[Espressojet]

Vote Espresso

I am sad im not scum in this :/ are you?

Yeah, I'm godfather with Csar

[Espressojet]

I have to confess that I forgot who replaced Csareo at one point, and I've made a few replies to Eek not actually remembering he was my godfather... I think those were the ones that you said I was his scumbuddy for, too

[Espressojet]

"The members of this team are [Csareo], the godfather with [Espressojet] the goon. "

Man, I read that wrong, because the whole time I was playing I thought ExpressoJet was the godfather. I would of hardbussed him otherwise.