Micro 193 - HD had a Greater Idea (Mafia)! [GAME OVER]

[Grimgroove]

Hello.

VOTE: DrDolittle

I prefer doctors to do a lot.

Also, I'm going to start this day with a little V/LA announcement: I shall not be online for the entire weekend, possible up until and including Monday.

Mod Response

V/LA noted. ~HD

[Grimgroove]

The simple reason why I don't choose vengeful roles is because I don't start a game assuming I'm going to be lynched, and especially not as a town-aligned player. Vengeful town was therefore practically useless in my eyes.

[Grimgroove]

Guyett iis posting drunk. Would scum risk posting here drunk, possibly scumslipping? I think not. Townpoints.
TheTrollie has taken the first step to move this game out of the fluff-realm: Town points.
Cheery Dog comes off as overly defensive: Scumpoints.
Escpecially The Lies: prefers to play as scum, so would have picked scum if he had the chance to. He discarded a town roleblocker, which sounds like an interesting town-aligned role to me. Scumpoints.

For me:
Town > Survivor > Scum > Other Individuals Besides Survivor > Cult

My favorite role is the Innocent Child. I like the feeling of being virtually untouchable.

[Grimgroove]

I'm not sure if you can call them reads yet, I've been handing out mental points that will help me when the time is right for reads. Right now, I think it's a bit too early for those, considering the lack of material to work with.

When it comes to the drunkenness, I believe in the adagio "in vino veritas", and therefore drunk posters do earn a bit of my trust. I realize this isn't watertight reasoning: some drunks still manage to pull off a lie, and some people lie about being drunk. But those are minorities in my experience.

For Especially The Lies: What you say is true, but from the list of discarded roles, I think Town Roleblocker looks like the most interesting town-aligned role that got discarded. "Interesting" is indeed personal, but I think few will disagree. I find it interesting EspeciallyTheLies immediately starts defending this choice by claiming she (thank you for pointing that out Mac :p) doesn't know how to play that role well. I don't find this a compelling reason.

As opposed to DrDoLittle I don't find the forcedness a problem: I can see town feeling equally compelled to state a reason for not picking the roleblocker. But I just don't like the reason. There's nothing especially difficult about being a roleblocker. and even if there were, picking the role would provide one with the chance to actually learn some of the mechanics (if there are any) better.

[Grimgroove]

It's not defending....? Did we not discard a bunch of cards and then show them to each other? I hate roleblockers/jailkeepers for exactly the reason I stated. I dont like using something i cant figure out. Its useless to me and i find it irritating. I much prefer things like watcher, tracker, cop, doc, when it comes to town roles.

What makes the roleblocker more difficult to figure out than for instance the doc?
I still think this is a bogus reason. Yes, like you rightly said, one can expect to be asked for reasons to discard one role and not the other, and so did you and so does everyone. But I have the feeling you didn't think this true. I would very much like you to answer the question: What is it exectly that is so difficult when trying to figure out who to roleblock, and what makes this more difficult than a doctor-protection or tracking someone?

@ChannelDilibird:
1. That's not a word.
2. If it means what I think it means, it's balony.

[Grimgroove]

For Especially The Lies: What you say is true, but from the list of discarded roles, I think Town Roleblocker looks like the most interesting town-aligned role that got discarded. "Interesting" is indeed personal, but I think few will disagree. I find it interesting EspeciallyTheLies immediately starts defending this choice by claiming she (thank you for pointing that out Mac :p) doesn't know how to play that role well. I don't find this a compelling reason.

Yeah I didn't quite get the defence either. could be seen

as an early scum attempt to throw people off the case

but then again it could just be the truth. why would ETL defend against something she wasn't under pressure from?

You answered your own question. But like I said, clarifying a choice is not the problem for me. Even though DrDoLittle and I both have our doubts surrounding EspeciallyTheLies, we have them for different reasons.

As opposed to DrDoLittle I don't find the forcedness a problem: I can see town feeling equally compelled to state a reason for not picking the roleblocker. But I just don't like the reason. There's nothing especially difficult about being a roleblocker. and even if there were, picking the role would provide one with the chance to actually learn some of the mechanics (if there are any) better.

roleblocker is a hell of an annoying role to play because it's easy to manipulate. It's not the worst role for me in the world but I find it frustrating. I discovered this fact in a micro game a month ago when I was a roleblocker and manipulated into lynching town. we lost. and again, it come down to a difference of opinion

What does this have to do with the role of roleblocker? You can just as easily be manipulated as a doctor or any other role for that matter. Even as a confirmed sane cop you can still be manipulated, even when you hold extra information.

[Grimgroove]

I'm being honest.

Aren't we all?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mac

[Grimgroove]

nah its very different...supersaint role suks, 1-shot vig is hawt.

If another 1-shot vig was drawn, they are confirmed town with my discard though.

VOTE: JasonWazza

What motivation lies behind this vote?

[Grimgroove]

You really think inactivity is a scumtell?

[Grimgroove]

I highly doubt this is alignment indicative. Especially in the starting phase of a game it is very easy to "fake" activity, even when you're scum.
Could you explain why it would make more sense for scum to not post at all right now than for town?
I don't like people voting for those who are simply not around. They're easy targets and smell of policy-votes, and those don't allow anyone to draw any conclusions. It's not a read, it's a very middle-of-the-road thing to do to vote for non-people, and so far, JaszonWazza is a non-person here simply because he has not uttered a single word.
Also, will you simply remove your vote when he does come over?
I don't see any added value in it.

[Grimgroove]

That's what I'd be doing if I hadn't voted the person ignoring the game.

Why?

[Grimgroove]

And I deliever.
In a 4 scum game
0.04459554: 1 scum group
0.432656734: 2 scum Groups
0.450154985: 3 scum Groups
0.072592741: 4 scum Groups

In a 3 scum game
0.108489151 1 scum group
0.593640636 2 scum groups
0.297870213 3 scum groups

In a 2 scum game
0.313868613 1 scum group
0.686131387 2 scum groups

Gee DrDo, what does this all mean? Well, it means that we are overwhelmingly likely in dealing with 2 (and less likely 3) scum groups. Furthermore, all indicated that it is almost certain that there is a lone wolf(alien/scum) running about.
This is actually really bad, as we would potentially suffer 2 losses per night, and we would only have 2 mislynches.

What is the point of this exposé?

[Grimgroove]

I had not seen this was the "big load of crap" you were referring to.

I'm agreeing with Guyett's case on Cheery Dog when it comes to Cheery Dog voting JasonWazza. He seems very reluctant to give out any strong reads, and even claims that if he wouldn't be voting a formerly inactive player,h e'd be voting nobody. This on the fence-sitting-business is something that will always rub me the wrong way.

The 1-shot DayVig discard seems to point to Cheery Dog not being scum, but "ruling it out" (as Dr. Dolittle suggests) goes way too far. Seeing how Dr. Dolittle is fond of statistics and has already stated that the odds of another card being something are practically unrelated to the discarded card, he must realize that Cheery Dog could have drawn an Alien role or something. And even if he didn't, I could imagine some picking a Mafia Goon over a Mafia 1-shot Dayvig simply for being able to use the discard as an argument. I realize this is WIFOM, but so is assuming the discard makes him town.

[Grimgroove]

I didn't find the discards very telling either way.

[Grimgroove]

How do you feel about my vote on you?

[Grimgroove]

Solely based off the discard?

[Grimgroove]

Hello?

[Grimgroove]

We should lynch Mac. ISO him and see for yourself.

[Grimgroove]

I have been very lazy in this game and I apologize. Got very involved in other ongoing games. Tomorrow I will focus primarily on this game, and deliver the long-awaited case on Mac! Have to finish one wall in another game and then off to bed, so see you later.

[Grimgroove]

I have been very lazy in this game and I apologize. Got very involved in other ongoing games. Tomorrow I will focus primarily on this game, and deliver the long-awaited case on Mac! Have to finish one wall in another game and then off to bed, so see you later.

It's pretty evident that his post sucks real bad.

That's what I thought to, but I have been asked to clarify.

[Grimgroove]

*messed up the quotes, reported the previous one for deletion:


I'll start with this. It's been long overdue.

oh I forgot about this game.

TheTrollie's logic is kinda confusing me and I'm struggling to follow it. that said, I can see how Grimgroove feels it's defensive. cheery's posting kinda looks like scum caught for the wrong reason and he's trying to bring other people (in this case Guyett) into the equation too.

that said Grimgroove, I feel like you reads are a little strange. I wouldn't say drunkposting = townpoints in any situation considering you can't really tell whether it's true or not. and your ETL reasoning is a little meh, just because she discarded town roleblocker, which you define as interesting, does not mean she drew a scum role rather than a more interesting town role.

i think talking about discarded roles is pretty pointless in theory. everyone has their own tastes to suit them and how they play.

CDB can you explain your ETL vote please?

His first post already gave me scumvibes.
One of the reasons are his choices of words. Trollie's logic is "kinda confusing", my reads are a "little strange". It feels too fabricated and polite.
His reasons for why my reads are strange I don't find very noteworthy.
I also so a soft-defense for ETL in his post, both through his criticism of my scumpoints for her as well as his specific request to CBD to clarify his vote on ETL.

For Especially The Lies: What you say is true, but from the list of discarded roles, I think Town Roleblocker looks like the most interesting town-aligned role that got discarded. "Interesting" is indeed personal, but I think few will disagree. I find it interesting EspeciallyTheLies immediately starts defending this choice by claiming she (thank you for pointing that out Mac :p) doesn't know how to play that role well. I don't find this a compelling reason.

Yeah I didn't quite get the defence either. could be seen as an early scum attempt to throw people off the case but then again it could just be the truth. why would ETL defend against something she wasn't under pressure from?

Here Mac suddenly agrees with me in saying "he didn't quite get the defence" (note how again he goes for a very roundabout way of putting something in words).
"Could be", "but then again", all very fliffyfloffy and wishywoshy.
As regards to the last question: never heared of a pre-emptive defense?

As opposed to DrDoLittle I don't find the forcedness a problem: I can see town feeling equally compelled to state a reason for not picking the roleblocker. But I just don't like the reason. There's nothing especially difficult about being a roleblocker. and even if there were, picking the role would provide one with the chance to actually learn some of the mechanics (if there are any) better.

roleblocker is a hell of an annoying role to play because it's easy to manipulate. It's not the worst role for me in the world but I find it frustrating. I discovered this fact in a micro game a month ago when I was a roleblocker and manipulated into lynching town. we lost. and again, it come down to a difference of opinion

I called him out on this before because the argument doesn't make sense. The reason he lost the game was because he was manipulated, not because he was a roleblocker. He did not properly explain why roleblocker is frustrating and a normal discard. Again soft-defending ETL.

All I see from #84 is a bunch of nothing that looks like an effort at doing something.

Jason can you explain #89 please? Why does it matter if he rvs'd or voting based on discards?

I kinda like Guyett's vote; also curious as to why Jason thinks that town mason is the worst role to throw away? (Or whatever you said to that effect)

Again the word choice "kinda like". There's no ownership to what he thinks. When you "kinda like" something, it is easier to jump to "kinda dislike" that same thing with very minor arguments. He's not committed to any of his opinions.
His remark on 84 had been made before by at least two people, fluff.

How do you feel about my vote on you?

I am untroubled by it.

Note he didn't think it was a problem here that I didn't specify any reasons. He didn't ask me for any, which I found rather strange.

Hello?

hello.

what is the basis for your vote on me?

p-edit. OH HEY. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

Finally, the question. The untroubled façade is being forsaken, and he goes for the attack, which in my eyes is little more than OMGUS.

Hello. Not posting because WTF are you people arguing about. The discards tell us nothing. Call me when there's something real to discuss.

what do you make of Grimgroove?

Trying to rally the person he's been trying to buddy up through soft-defending in forming a case against me. Note he didn't do this himself yet. Why ask ETL's opinion specifaccly, and why about me specifically? Answers: Cashing in ojn the buddying and OMGUS.

In that the questions you're asking only seem to pop up when you spot something that you ought to or simply can safely ask about, rather than following a pattern of actually proactively hunting for scum.

Who do you think is most likely to be scum?

well right now I think Grimgroove is voting me and letting others do the work which isn't town motivated in any way. ETL isn't doing much which is odd. Cheery could also be scum too, I didn't like his Jason vote which came across as an effort to appear like he was doing something.

Very poor reads. The thing he accuses me off he did himself, trying to let ETL do the work in forming an opinion on me.
His read on ETL is not a read. What does "odd" mean?
I agree with his remark on Cheery Dog, but again "could be" sounds much too careful.

well right now I think Grimgroove is voting me and letting others do the work which isn't town motivated in any way.

So why aren't you voting for him?

because I wanted to see if he'd do the work himself.

no such luck yet however

Note I wasn't here at all during this time. Channel is right to think it's odd he didn't vote me yet.

VOTE: GrimGroove

This only comes after repeated questions of Channel why he didn't do so.
Why did you stop wxaiting for my case until that time? Why not a day longer? Why not a day earlier?

@Channel: you still didn't explain what is so spectatory about muy earlier posts. Please do so.
@Trollie: I meta'd you, and as a moderator you seem to post more coherently. Is this an act you are pulling here with this broken english and all? Also clarify your scumread on me.
@Guyett: I read your case on me, and to be honest I don't see the jump between what you put forward and you thinking I lean scum, apart from my unexplained vote on Mac. It was partially a reaction test, but I admit that it taking so long to actually give the case was also simple laziness and not really being in this game. But laziness isn't necessarily scummy.

Mod Note

Badly formatted version of this post deleted. ~HD

[Grimgroove]

As I find 1) an unsatisfactory reason I'll be sure to remind you of this as soon as 2) is no longer an issue.

[Grimgroove]

@Grim I'm not particularly fond of people voting without giving reason, to me it looks like you can't think of a good enough reason yet and you're taking a lazy easy option.

however I like your readings on Mac in post 152

I think my reads prove that I had reasons all along.
Do you think I'd take the risk simply calling someone scum wityhout having any reasons for it? I could have gone for the "argument" that I was reaction testing, but I shot down that possibility myself by actively rooting for his lynch. I had reasons from the very start, but simply chose not to give them yet. Partially out of laziness. But lazy doesn't make me scum.

I've only got two town-reads so far, two leaning scum, one scum, the rest is null.

[Grimgroove]

Regardless of the claim, I'm also very interested in what Mac has to say for himself, before ETL does it for him.

[Grimgroove]

Anything more refreshing to add?

[Grimgroove]

Oh, so you are an alien. Perfect. Lynch now please.

[Grimgroove]

[Grimgroove]

That's what you and trollie keep saying, but the "why" of it all is missing.
You're not granting me the right of defense when you don't give arguments.
Normally if you don't give arguments, I don't expect people to follow you (with the exception of trollie) so I'm not very concerned yet, but you should really start thinking about your case on me.
I don't find that consiparcy theorist at all convincing. I find it one of the least convincing claims he could come up with.

[Grimgroove]

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

[Grimgroove]

@Grim I'm not particularly fond of people voting without giving reason, to me it looks like you can't think of a good enough reason yet and you're taking a lazy easy option.

however I like your readings on Mac in post 152

I think my reads prove that I had reasons all along

.
Do you think I'd take the risk simply calling someone scum wityhout having any reasons for it? I could have gone for the "argument" that I was reaction testing, but I shot down that possibility myself by actively rooting for his lynch. I had reasons from the very start, but simply chose not to give them yet. Partially out of laziness. But lazy doesn't make me scum.

I've only got two town-reads so far, two leaning scum, one scum, the rest is null.

... I kind of covered that in my post?!? you say you had reasons all along but you only posted it long after your vote... like I said you vote for someone without reason and later you post reasons when you think some up.

How could I be sure that "I'd think something up", if I couldn't at the time of my vote? That would be stupidly risky, don't you think?
Do you find my thoughts on Mac's initial votes (from before my vote on him) compelling? Or do you get the feeling they are artificial and "thought up"?

[Grimgroove]

It's posts like 194 that

are

my case, Grim. You're being so mechanical. "You can't get me lynched, you have no case." "Conspiracy Theorist is a convenient claim for scum so the fact that Mac has claimed it means that he should be lynched." You're completely uninterested in

how

people say things, only

what

they say.

Don't diss my style. "What" people say is objective, you can do something with it. You can check if something is plausible or not, laws of logic and all that.
"How" people say it, that's grey territory. You say I'm mechanical, I say I'm rational. You say I'm spectatory, I say I'm objectively analyzing things.

What you have just described is a posting style. Town can be "mechanical" as you put it. Just as how scum can be just repeating reads hoping someone will simply pick it up (trollie) and play on meddling with the instincts.

We'll see where your "case" goes, but I am unworried. And not just because I think you won't get a long enough wagon on me. Even if you do I'll make it dissipate.

But I'd prefer a lynch on Mac, plain and simple. Mechanical or not, the things I've said are ture. That's why you call them as coming from a machine. Machines are straightforward, direct, and give logical conclusions.

Why would you not follow logic Channel? Give me a good reason. I need reasons.

[Grimgroove]

Oh, so you are an alien. Perfect. Lynch now please.

claimed

town

conspiracy theorist

.. and you still think I claimed alien? are you for fucking real?

You claimed a role that gets checked as an alien, pretty convenient in case you are, in fact, an alien.
Of course I didn't think you claimed an alien, that would have been suicide. Do you think I can't read?

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

IT COMES UP THREE FUCKING TIMES, ONE OF WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN COVERED?!

A ROLE THATS BETTER THAN MY DISCARD? EVERY FUCKING ROLE IS BETTER THAN VT.

well it could be proven if I found the alien, but if there's no alien..? WELCOME TO GREATER IDEA.

of course it does.

KEEP FUCKING TUNNELING, I CAN GO ALL NIGHT

I'm sure you can. I can't. My laptop is heating up. You didn't really deny that my argument makes sense here, you just shouted a bit.

There's theoreitcally the possibility that there's two CT's. Even if there's another one inhere, he can't counterclaim.

It's a very poor claim, and considering your earlier scumminess it's not a surprise I'm "tunneling" you. You wouldn't have believed me if the tables were turned, and you know it.

Some people call that a sincere explosion, I call it a poor act.

[Grimgroove]

so many p-edits. let me get to them.

your case is shit grimgroove, and you are starting to anger me

Going to get into your wall tomorrow, my laptop is at a very high temperature and will shut down soon. And so will I.

But why the addition of "you're starting to anger me"? Why the anger?

If you think I'm scum, you wouldn't need to be angry. It would be part of my role to try to get you lynched.

The fact that you're angry proves that you think I'm town being stupid and tunneling.

But I don't think you're angry in the first place. You're just frustrated that I caught you.

[Grimgroove]

I shouted because they don't MAKE SENSE. why would I be shouting if they did?

Because you can't reply to them when it comes to the substance. So you go for the form in order to convince and appeal to people. In this case: all caps.

If there's anything mechanical inhere, it's your "emotional" reactions.

[Grimgroove]

I've been playing this game for years. Do you think I vote for everyone who applies logic to things?

No. I am specifically voting for you because I believe that you are hiding behind these things. You are sitting back and looking for actions that could be construed as coming from scum rather than really trying to figure out whether they are thinking like scum. You are doing this because you know any lynch will do as long as it is not your own. You are doing it because you are trying to do things which have the least possible risk of incriminating yourself.

This is clever. Very clever. But it's just a wordy way of saying it's just "gut", backed up with some token of large experience in order to make this more believable. Nobody can defend themselves against "gut", but with your explanations you're trying to make it look like more than that, and make me defense look bad in comparison. You're good. If you're scum at least.

I'll tell you what I did: I more than probably found scum in Mac. And you want me lynched for it because you think my tone is too dispassionate. There isn't anything more to this.

Looking for actions that could be construed as coming from scum <==> looking for scummy actions

sitting back: what?

Where did I construe anything? If someone says scummy things, they think scummy things. That's how brain-to-finger coordination usually works. If it didn't, we wouldn't be able to find scum.

You were talking earlier about the "how" they say it instead of "what".
What about the "how" of Mac's claim is so compelling? "How" do you pinpoint the "how".

You made me lynch-candidate number 1 for this dayst

[Grimgroove]

*continued, my brain-finger coordination slipped up there

You made me lynch-candidate number 1 for this daystage, but have only gut and a trollie-satellite to back that up.

[Grimgroove]

Spoiler: lots of quotes

@Grim I'm not particularly fond of people voting without giving reason, to me it looks like you can't think of a good enough reason yet and you're taking a lazy easy option.

however I like your readings on Mac in post 152

I think my reads prove that I had reasons all along.
Do you think I'd take the risk simply calling someone scum wityhout having any reasons for it? I could have gone for the "argument" that I was reaction testing, but I shot down that possibility myself by actively rooting for his lynch. I had reasons from the very start, but simply chose not to give them yet. Partially out of laziness. But lazy doesn't make me scum.

I've only got two town-reads so far, two leaning scum, one scum, the rest is null.

... I kind of covered that in my post?!? you say you had reasons all along but you only posted it long after your vote... like I said you vote for someone without reason and later you post reasons when you think some up.

How could I be sure that "I'd think something up", if I couldn't at the time of my vote? That would be stupidly risky, don't you think?

Do you find my thoughts on Mac's initial votes (from before my vote on him) compelling?

Or do you get the feeling they are artificial and "thought up"?

what thoughts?
before this

My thoughts are to be found in the post 152 you liked so much. I didn't make them before in time, but the fact that I have thoughts to present on Mac's earliest posts in my 152 should hint that I had them all along. Now I ask you to look at what I said about those earlier posts and tell me if they look "construed" or not, if I have been splkitting hairs just to be able to come up with reasons after playing bluffpoker. I'm trying to show you that I didn't.

Yes, I agree your vote is pretty bad, certainly considering you supposedly liked my 152. If you really liked it, you'd understand my so-called tunnel on Mac.

[Grimgroove]

CDB am i dumb for not voting Mac?

why dont we like whoever im currently voting (i think ^this^) but im at work so i cant check right now

You're not dumb but it would help if you voted for Mac!

I voted for Grimgroove because it looked like he was watching and summarising rather than playing. I think Mac is worse.

As much as i hate people summarizing, how is it scummy, over just anti-town?

Either of you: tell me where I summarized. Gah.

Oh, so you are an alien. Perfect. Lynch now please.

This seems pretty scummy, you assumed this straight up without considering possible being town?

The tyhought crossed my mind ever so shortly, but given his earlier scummy behavior, the thought soon passed.

Imagine browsing through a list looking for a safeclaim, what would you choose?

* A role that comes up several times
* A role that's better than your discard
* A role that can't be proven
* A role that explains a "guilty" when somebody checks you.

Mac's claim ticks all the boxes.

1. Not nessecarilly, you could gamble on a single pick one and out a power role, or have a 100/109 in not being counter claimed (chance the card wasn't drawn given the discard knowledge)
2. His discard VT this point is null and void.
3. MOST roles can't be proven, your point is null and void.
4. Possible, but a stupid reason to suspect a claim.

If not for these reasons, when is a claim suspect to you, aside from the obvious (and evidently rare) case there's a counterclaim?
I strongly disagree with your point 3, especially in the longer run.

Bah, still have to get into Mac's wall. This simultanuous attack-defense thing is quite taxing. Yet another reason for my supposed "tunnel". MAybe I shouldn't call it a supposed tunnel. It is in fact a tunnel. But it's one with destination scum, so no harm done.

[Grimgroove]

I suspect the claim because I suspect the player. This is evident from my response to the second quote snippet in 230.

[Grimgroove]

If I see someone claim something that is so wonderfully convenient, I can't help but feel strengthened in my read and communicate this feeling to other players.

[Grimgroove]

Well, call me paranoid, but that's what I see.

What do you think of the rest of my case on Mac? (152)

[Grimgroove]

Could you explain your interactions with trollie, Guyett?

[Grimgroove]

Could you explain your interactions with trollie, Guyett?

which ones?

All of them. But I realzie this was a bad question to ask, since it's impossible to answer.
How do you read Trollie?
I see you show a lot of respect for him: you "lol" when making little criticisms towards him, you don't question his reads and you don't question his lack of arguments. You make an effort to see the way he sees things and I can't help but wonder why.

[Grimgroove]

Also Guyett, 229 !!

[Grimgroove]

You're not even trying to see it from my PoV.

152 deals with posts that were from before my vote on Mac.

To requote myself: "I didn't make them before in time, but the fact that I have thoughts to present on Mac's earliest posts in my 152 should hint that I had them all along. Now I ask you to look at what I said about those earlier posts and tell me if they look "construed" or not, if I have been splkitting hairs just to be able to come up with reasons after playing bluffpoker."

Also, reply to 241. you're making this more tiring for me than necessary.

[Grimgroove]

Why do you always only answer half of my posts? Again, you left part of my 244 uncovered. Quite annoying.

Also, you didn't answer my question when it comes to The Trollie thing, I wanted your reactions, not his. I'll help you in my next post and be more precise,b ut boy, you really enjoy straining me don't you?

Why wasn't Trollie present in your 166-reads?

[Grimgroove]

Guyett's interactions with Trollie. He's buddying.

well I'm not sober people weren't playing so I thought I'd have a chat.....

I'll stop if it irritates you that much.

CDB am i dumb for not voting Mac?

why dont we like whoever im currently voting

(i think ^this^)

but im at work so i cant check right now

Is that for me or Mac?

This question was never answered. But it was obvious he was referring to you. Yet he never explained why he thought he voted on you, and you never asked why he would.

they. r. both. obv. scum.

Grim and Mac?

Double-checking to make sure you're still his buddy.

I have ISO'd grim already, I'll have a look at Mac in a bit... just watching a film

@ trollie desperate much

lol

"You're constant repeption isn't helping and seems desperate, but it's ok because lol, you're my buddy".

He's not... if you had time to post that surely you have time to vote

vote for him then... or do you really want to hammer?
you are not very committing with votes onto a wagon are you haha

haha

And I never said trollie is your scumbuddy. Way to twist my words. I said you're buddying him.

Also, my ISO on you revealed something else that's very interesting. Your entire case on me seems tob e the result of you appeasing him.

[Grimgroove]

Grimgroove - Also getting a slight town read from your posts.

They are logical and concise.

Spoiler: Grim

post 35

I agree with the point about choosing vengeful roles but disagree with the part that vengeful townie is useless. It is in my eyes a very useful roles due to the win condition for a townie... you need to remove the scum and if you were to be lynched you could take one scum person out with you.

[url-http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5053248]post 36[/url]

drunk posting is townish? really?

post 38, post 47 and post 50 Could you go over your reasons against ETL again thanks

post 55 this is a bit out of the blue... its a bit late for RVS. slight hint of scummyness

post 88 In post 59 CDog suggests if another 1 shot vig was drawn they'd be confirmed town, he could be breadcrumbing that he is a town 1 shot vig. However I dont see how the discard would point to CDog not being scum.

post 106 Nothing more to say? come on grim don't be so lazy.

yeah so Grim is leaning scum for me at the moment.

Leaving aside the fact that the content of his comments don't match up with his udden scumlean on me, he suddenly seems to think my posts before 39 (35, 36, 38) are no longer logical and consice. Does not compute.

I have ISO'd grim already, I'll have a look at Mac in a bit... just watching a film

This quote in itself shows how he orients his entire game around Trollie's "reads".

[Grimgroove]

honestly I didn't like how quick grim was on to mac's role claim looking to make it out to be scum.

vs.

This really is the least important semantic argument we could possibly be having so let's stop.

lol yeah.
Tbh I'm still suspicious of Grim but I dont really find Macs reveal very convincing...

You're all over the place Guyett.

@CBD: We're done talking.

[Grimgroove]

Still think Grim is scum, partly because of how it's

killing

him that I won't engage with him on his terms about my read.

Actually, no, we're not done.
There is no way to "engage" on your terms. That's the whole problem. And yes, it's killing me. How does that make me scum?

[Grimgroove]

Yes, appease your way through Day 1.

[Grimgroove]

I never sniped you, I just questioned your read.

The support for a lynch on me has taken me by surprise, I must say. It's difficult not to get into OMGUS but seriously, of the four people voting me you seem to be the only one with sincere reasons. But their sincereity is their only absolving characteristic.

And Trollie, I can't even begin talking to him. I tried, I failed. Don't know how anyone will be able to get a read off of him if he keeps that up. He had his opinion ready on me ever since he saw my discard and that was that.

[Grimgroove]

I can't believe you fooled my during the starting phase of this game. You were one of my strongest town reads for a long time.

[Grimgroove]

@Guyett: not interested in meta arguments, not sure why you decide to bring those up. The thing between brackets is somewhat interesting though. Care to elaborate?

[Grimgroove]

Btw, why are you trying to convince someone you think is scum into thinking you're town?

[Grimgroove]

You're keeping someone at L-1 because you have a null/light scum lean on them? Sounds to me like you just want as many people as possible to claim.

Do you have any strong scumreads?

[Grimgroove]

Mac, get back in here. I've seen you. Don't hide from the spotlight.

I realize I haven't answered to your wall yet, but I've thrown some more posts at you to which you did not yet reply.


Responding to the wall now, contained within the spoiler in color! I normally make a point of never discussing this way (very difficult to refer to these things later on), but I simply couldn't be bothered:

Spoiler: big ass wall

*messed up the quotes, reported the previous one for deletion:


I'll start with this. It's been long overdue.

oh I forgot about this game.

TheTrollie's logic is kinda confusing me and I'm struggling to follow it. that said, I can see how Grimgroove feels it's defensive. cheery's posting kinda looks like scum caught for the wrong reason and he's trying to bring other people (in this case Guyett) into the equation too.

that said Grimgroove, I feel like you reads are a little strange. I wouldn't say drunkposting = townpoints in any situation considering you can't really tell whether it's true or not. and your ETL reasoning is a little meh, just because she discarded town roleblocker, which you define as interesting, does not mean she drew a scum role rather than a more interesting town role.

i think talking about discarded roles is pretty pointless in theory. everyone has their own tastes to suit them and how they play.

CDB can you explain your ETL vote please?

His first post already gave me scumvibes.
One of the reasons are his choices of words. Trollie's logic is "kinda confusing", my reads are a "little strange". It feels too fabricated and polite.
His reasons for why my reads are strange I don't find very noteworthy.
I also so a soft-defense for ETL in his post, both through his criticism of my scumpoints for her as well as his specific request to CBD to clarify his vote on ETL.

word choice??? I'm sorry if I didn't have a strong foothold on the game. I'll make sure to remember that town are

never

polite. also I'm not sure how it feels fabricated at all.

I have noticed word choice is indeed rarely a convincing argument for others, but for me it is very important in my reads. Word choices are a conscious process, definitely in typing. By typing, you portray a certain image of yourself. Scum is more self-conscious when it comes to this, and is more often than not most careful in their choice of words as well. Sometimes too careful, as in this case. Whenever I see someone tiptoeing through a topic with a polite smile here and there, I reek scum.

you don't find my reasons for finding your reads strange noteworthy. how on earth does this make me scum.

They were just a hand-out of some town and scumpoints after an inital reading. To give such a seemingly "in-depth" analysis of something so trivial with reasons so trivial is indeed scummy. Makes you look active without really doing anything.

again, your reasoning was weak. you said she drew a scum role because she discarded town roleblocker: I said that was weak reasoning. & asking someone to clarify a vote is not a defence of ETL either.

There you go. That's a stand. Weak reasoning. No more doubts. My reads are no longer a "little strange". Surely you notice the difference yourself? You know you and me isn't going to work anymore within this game, and already your tone has dramatically shifted.

For Especially The Lies: What you say is true, but from the list of discarded roles, I think Town Roleblocker looks like the most interesting town-aligned role that got discarded. "Interesting" is indeed personal, but I think few will disagree. I find it interesting EspeciallyTheLies immediately starts defending this choice by claiming she (thank you for pointing that out Mac :p) doesn't know how to play that role well. I don't find this a compelling reason.

Yeah I didn't quite get the defence either. could be seen as an early scum attempt to throw people off the case but then again it could just be the truth. why would ETL defend against something she wasn't under pressure from?

Here Mac suddenly agrees with me in saying "he didn't quite get the defence" (note how again he goes for a very roundabout way of putting something in words).
"Could be", "but then again", all very fliffyfloffy and wishywoshy.
As regards to the last question: never heared of a pre-emptive defense?

I don't get it. I said your reasoning for ETLscum was weak wrt her ditching town roleblocker, and then "suddenly agreed" (like I was ever opposing you or something? I don't know) that ETL's defence was unnecessary. so fucking what?

word choice again? ok...

and finally, good point about the pre-emptive defence. I hadn't considered that.

Not much to add.

As opposed to DrDoLittle I don't find the forcedness a problem: I can see town feeling equally compelled to state a reason for not picking the roleblocker. But I just don't like the reason. There's nothing especially difficult about being a roleblocker. and even if there were, picking the role would provide one with the chance to actually learn some of the mechanics (if there are any) better.

roleblocker is a hell of an annoying role to play because it's easy to manipulate. It's not the worst role for me in the world but I find it frustrating. I discovered this fact in a micro game a month ago when I was a roleblocker and manipulated into lynching town. we lost. and again, it come down to a difference of opinion

I called him out on this before because the argument doesn't make sense. The reason he lost the game was because he was manipulated, not because he was a roleblocker. He did not properly explain why roleblocker is frustrating and a normal discard. Again soft-defending ETL.

I was manipulated

because

I was a roleblocker. if you can't see how I find it frustrating then I'm not sure how I can help because it's pretty obvious what I'm getting at? didn't once say it was a normal discard: misrep.

I don't see what you're getting at. How was the manipulation linked to you being a roleblocker? Please explain in more detail.
And by you saying it was a normal discard I meant to say that you understood the discard. And you did. That's not a misrep.
How did you interpret "normal discard" that would make this a blatant misrep?

All I see from #84 is a bunch of nothing that looks like an effort at doing something.

Jason can you explain #89 please? Why does it matter if he rvs'd or voting based on discards?

I kinda like Guyett's vote; also curious as to why Jason thinks that town mason is the worst role to throw away? (Or whatever you said to that effect)

Again the word choice "kinda like". There's no ownership to what he thinks. When you "kinda like" something, it is easier to jump to "kinda dislike" that same thing with very minor arguments. He's not committed to any of his opinions.
His remark on 84 had been made before by at least two people, fluff.

ok. so I can't kinda like or kinda dislike anyone. does that mean I can't have any leaning town or leaning scum reads? because that's a similar argument you are getting at. my opinions are always committed. whether I like, kinda like, kinda dislike or dislike someone's post, it's still my opinion.

and wow, I was unaware if it was already covered by someone, I wasn't allowed to talk about it. no wait, that's not the case. You. Are. Tunnelling.

Repeating what others said: looking active. Can you point out to me where in this game you gave a refreshing argument, a new element, that points to you actually scumhunting?

How do you feel about my vote on you?

I am untroubled by it.

Note he didn't think it was a problem here that I didn't specify any reasons. He didn't ask me for any, which I found rather strange.

why the fuck did you think I was untroubled by it. I was waiting for your reasons. And they never came.

Why weren't you troubled by the fact that I didn't give reasons? Why did you think it was a priorty to show you could keep your cool, instead of calling me out for not providing any reasons?

Hello?

hello.

what is the basis for your vote on me?

p-edit. OH HEY. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

Finally, the question. The untroubled façade is being forsaken, and he goes for the attack, which in my eyes is little more than OMGUS.

no, you were still not explaining the vote. I asked you because you were not delivering what was expected of you. like I was expecting a case and all you said was "hello?" it's like you were waiting for approval, or someone to build a case.

At the moment of my "hello" the topic was at a stand-still. Why didn't you act before my "hello" in order to get it moving again? Why did you decide to wait?

Hello. Not posting because WTF are you people arguing about. The discards tell us nothing. Call me when there's something real to discuss.

what do you make of Grimgroove?

Trying to rally the person he's been trying to buddy up through soft-defending in forming a case against me. Note he didn't do this himself yet. Why ask ETL's opinion specifaccly, and why about me specifically? Answers: Cashing in ojn the buddying and OMGUS.

pot. kettle. black. ETL said there's nothing to talk about: I gave her something to talk about. why you? because I wanted to know what she made of your lack-of-case to that point. sure, i could've asked anyone but ETL said there was nothing to talk about when in fact I wanted to talk about you.

haha @ omgus.

Pot, kettle, black? You're calling me a hypocrite? Why? Where did I buddy? Where did I omgus? Where did I rally people I've been buddying up to?
Your other points are valid but don't change my read.

In that the questions you're asking only seem to pop up when you spot something that you ought to or simply can safely ask about, rather than following a pattern of actually proactively hunting for scum.

Who do you think is most likely to be scum?

well right now I think Grimgroove is voting me and letting others do the work which isn't town motivated in any way. ETL isn't doing much which is odd. Cheery could also be scum too, I didn't like his Jason vote which came across as an effort to appear like he was doing something.

Very poor reads. The thing he accuses me off he did himself, trying to let ETL do the work in forming an opinion on me.
His read on ETL is not a read. What does "odd" mean?
I agree with his remark on Cheery Dog, but again "could be" sounds much too careful.

nope, I didn't vote you and say "iso him, you'll see he's scum" without providing any proof. what the fuck do you think odd means? odd means that it's not like her to be asking for something to do; ergo she is not acting herself. You are still tunneling when you try to twist me saying something is odd into something scummy.

oh wow, shoot me. I said could be!

The word choice thing again, explained it above.

well right now I think Grimgroove is voting me and letting others do the work which isn't town motivated in any way.

So why aren't you voting for him?

because I wanted to see if he'd do the work himself.

no such luck yet however

Note I wasn't here at all during this time. Channel is right to think it's odd he didn't vote me yet.

"what does odd mean?" does that make CDB scum for using the word odd? note you still had made posts between the vote on me and the case.

Of course I did. But I didn't make posts between you "waiting" and you voting. Your timing seemed very arbitrary and unnatural.

VOTE: GrimGroove

This only comes after repeated questions of Channel why he didn't do so.
Why did you stop wxaiting for my case until that time? Why not a day longer? Why not a day earlier?

because CDB clearly wasn't going to let up and wait for you. if he's going to question me why I'm not voting when I made it clear I was waiting for you then what else can I do?

Act natural and be yourself?

so many p-edits. let me get to them.

your case is shit grimgroove, and you are starting to anger me

[Grimgroove]

Nah, too early for that my friend. Do you have any other reads besides the scumreads on me and Mac?

[Grimgroove]

Do you feel there's been anything more to your game besides the statement:

"Grimgroove and Mac are scum."

?

[Grimgroove]

Guyett, please respond to my latest posts.
Mac, just saying you think I'm town doesn't absolve you from replying to me.
ChannelDelibird, you also stated you would clarify your position.
Dr. Dolittle, I don't understand your options that you don't want to lynch. They're both completely null in my book.
Jason isn't part of my preferred lynches.
I used to have two townreads, but Guyett dropped from the top of my list to the bottom, joining Mac.
Trollie will have to be looked into during a later stage of the game. CBD vouching for him is weird, but somehow reassuring for the time being.

[Grimgroove]

CBD = CDB = ChannelDelibird

[Grimgroove]

Guyett, please respond to my latest posts.
Mac, just saying you think I'm town doesn't absolve you from replying to me.
ChannelDelibird, you also stated you would clarify your position.
Dr. Dolittle, I don't understand your options that you don't want to lynch. They're both completely null in my book.
Jason isn't part of my preferred lynches.
I used to have two townreads, but Guyett dropped from the top of my list to the bottom, joining Mac.
Trollie will have to be looked into during a later stage of the game. CBD vouching for him is weird, but somehow reassuring for the time being.

the ones of your interactions with trollie?

The one of YOUR interactions with Trollie. And your general behavior in this game.


@Mac: yes. The fact that I included the box "better than discarded role" just shows the objectivity of it. Yes, of course in your case it doesn't mean anything, but I think the tickbox is a good way to assess the value of a claim. Maybe you're right ins aying that my conclusion that because it is without value, it is also scummy, might be a bit too easy, but given that you were my scumread before that, you can't really blame me.

Your claim is without value, and therefore fits into my scumread on you.

[Grimgroove]

I'm not following you, could you point out what posts you're talking about?

You acknowledged to have been buddying with Trollie, supposedly because he has similar reads on you. But I showed by means of a chronological ordering of posts that it's been the other way around: you having similar reads, and actively working towards having similar reads, as Trollie. You just put the cart in front of the horse.

@mod: votecount please

I'd move my vote right now, Mac's wagon has lost traction because of his claim. If find it hard to believe, but it's time to face the fact he's probably not getting lynched today.

Consider my vote on you Guyett.

[Grimgroove]

@grim I have to go to work now but I will have a look at what you are saying when I return.
@ grim and CDog that's fine, even if I get lynched I can still win and I might be able to help out the people with the same wincon as me.... thus enabling me to win. I have a few ideas on who is scum and who is not so I hope I make the right choice with my PR.

Are you claiming Vengeful Townie?

[Grimgroove]

I'm not even going to wait for an answer, it's crystal-clear:

[quote="In post 312, Guyett] even if I get lynched I can still win and I might be able to help out the people with the same wincon as me.... thus enabling me to win.[/quote]

Being lynched but still being able to help out = vengeful or supersaint.

I have a few ideas on who is scum and who is not so I hope I make the

right choice

with my PR.

Supersaint doesn't make a choice, so this is essentially a Vengeful Townie claim.

I discarded the Vengeful Townie.

There is only one Vengeful Townie in the list.

Guyett lied.

UNVOTE: Mac

VOTE: Guyett

[Grimgroove]

I have a few ideas on who is scum and who is not

so I hope I make the right choice with my PR

.

How does a treestump fit with this?

[Grimgroove]

Oh. Missed that.

...

[Grimgroove]

Only 18 hours left.

[Grimgroove]

That was unusual.

[Grimgroove]

He claimed.
Cult leader.
There's 16 hours left.
What are you waiting for?

[Grimgroove]

I don't think that role exists in this set-up.

[Grimgroove]

Knock yourself out, you're still allowed to post until the mod gets here. You're a nice guy, I like you, but I'm glad you're lynched. Cults are a pain.

[*]All living players, including the lynchee, may continue to post until I lock the thread.

[Grimgroove]

The Cheery Dog kill is interesting, though, I must admit. He was pretty against lynching both Grim and Mac. I think I could see it as just trying to kill the towniest-looking player and CD was more or less that, perhaps, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't nag at me a bit.

WIFOM, come on, you know better than to make a non-argument like that.
You promised me something during Day 1. You said you would do it later because you were in a grumpy mood or something, but you still didn't up to this point.

How does the Cheery Dog-kill point to The Trollie?

I'm always wary of analyzing kills like this, what we do then is we see who's killed,s ay what they said before, and then decide. But whoever killed him based their decision on what they read before as well. And from there everything depends on what happened in thier mind, which is a closed box for town.

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: Trollie
Cheery's death lines up well with Trollie-scum the most.

You have forgotten to explain what your line of thinking was there.

[Grimgroove]

In other words, scum don't kill people suspecting them, they kill people they can't lynch.

But why would scum make people unlynchable in the first place with statements like the one DrDolittle made? Not buying that logic.

DrDolittle's case on you isn't as conclusive as he makes it out to be, but it's better than anything else we have right now, except for the case on Mac, but he's V/LA.

And where are the others?

[Grimgroove]

With the only two other active people probably being town, I must say I'm getting quite bored overhere.

[Grimgroove]

Same here. No idea how to get this thing forward with almost nobody around.

[Grimgroove]

Mac, why didn't you claim your investigation results when you posted your V/LA notice?

Very good point.

VOTE: Mac

[Grimgroove]

Grimgroove, I'd just like to say that I'm in a bit of a bad mood today because of some stuff not to do with this game and I hope my approach isn't being affected by that. I think you're scum, but I don't want to just wind you up for the sake of it. I just don't think that engaging you in the way that you want will help because of, well, I've already explained what I think you're doing. That might not be a way to get everyone else to agree with me and jump on as well but it seems like you're getting pretty close without me doing that anyway.

I may come back with a post for everyone else summarising my thoughts more clearly at some point soon

but I think I may need to disconnect from things for a day or something to do that without turning this into some sort of weird sniping match.

I had read that as a promise, but the subtlety of "

may

" did go over my head during my first reads.

[Grimgroove]

If your role would still be a mystery and you would want to keep it secret, I could see why you wouldn't reveal any result.
But in this case there's no drawback whatsoever to revealing what you found out. It might be only moderately interesting, but you never know if at some point it could help.

[Grimgroove]

This has got to be the slowest game I've been in so far. Everyone out enjoying the sun I guess?

[Grimgroove]

Several questions:

1. What kind of role tells you someone tried to shoot you and simultaneously allows you to survive? I can't think of any.
2. Why are you talking about "the last scum"? Why do you assume there's only one last scum?
3. Why do you want to carry out an additional test that will be inconclusive anyway on someone you seem to think is scum anyway? You do see how many loopholes there are present in the test you propose, right?

[Grimgroove]

Does it say Salrus in your PM?

[Grimgroove]

Saulus only switches alignments if it is lynched.

Check the Wiki-article. There it says nightkills also lead to an alignment switch.

But the Mafia isn't going to kill one of their own, so it has got to be either a Werewolf or an Alien who shot DrDolittle.

I don't see the point in holding off a lynch on Mac, just for some senseless test.

Not sure I believe the claim, the "Salrus" thing bugs me, as well as DrDolittle suddenly not wanting to lynch Mac.

My current line of thinking: Black Goo, targeted by Mac. Does Black Goo get informed when they were targeted and by whom?

[Grimgroove]

Scratch that, just checked and it appears Black Goo is a town-aligned role, so DrDolittle has no reason to lie about that.

[Grimgroove]

Lynching Mac now is stupid.

And also @JasonWazza:


You really have to explain why because I don't see it. He practically obv-not-town-aligned at this point. What difference does it make if he's an alien or mafia? Aliens are just as much of a threat as any other scum-alignment I reckon.

[Grimgroove]

Tell me why the fuck would anyone pick judas?

That question made my scum-radar ping though.
You discarded Vanilla Townie.
You realize how Judas is better than Vanilla Townie right? It essentially allows you to survive a kill.
Pretending you wouldn't pick a Judas role when presented with VT as an alternative sounds like a big fat lie to me.

Maybe Mac was the one who tried to kill you, essentially making you join his ranks, and making you not wanting to lynch him.

Even though his claim, also to me, suggest he'll be an Alien when lying, it is not fact yet. Yet DrDolittle makes it sound like it is. Why is it so self-evident that he's not mafia or wolf?

[Grimgroove]

Your gonna have to point me to where he became

confirmed

Alien.

ISO me, you'll see plenty of examples of why I like Mac as scum in general starting from Day 1.
His uncalled for reservations to state his night results have made things exponentially worse.

[Grimgroove]

If your role would still be a mystery and you would want to keep it secret, I could see why you wouldn't reveal any result.
But in this case there's no drawback whatsoever to revealing what you found out. It might be only moderately interesting, but you never know if at some point it could help.

there is a drawback. if we have an alien in game, and I confirm a not-alien then that obviously narrows down our targets for the alien but means the alien can kill off the person.

I feel like that doesn't make sense but there is an air of mystery if I keep my results and we do have an alien. if you want I can reveal it of course.

You mean this? I don't find that convincing.

And considering people consider the Aliens to be of no immediate danger because they only have one kill and possibly already used it, and hence we should not lynch them now, how does this town PoV still make sense?

Mac admits himself it doesn't seem to make sense. Because it doesn't.

[Grimgroove]

Also I'd definitely pick VT over Judas, just sayin'. Silly argument and not even that relevant anyway.

DrDolittle used it as an argument and thus made it relevant.
I don't see why you'd pick a VT over a Judas really. It's the same thing, only Judas comes with the bonus of having a 1-shot bulletproof.

[Grimgroove]

1) What is the motivation for Judas to claim that He converted?

Good point.

2) What?

During Day 1 Mac was among yuour preferred lynches. Today you don't want to lynch him, despite additional elements pointing to him being scum. This makes me wondzer what happened during the night. Under the assumtpion you are indeed Judas (which, given your earlier point, become less likely) it wouldn't be a stretch to interpret this switch as you joining Mac's ranks after he unsuccesfully tried killing you.

3) This makes no fucking sense. Tell me what is the scum motivation for telling people that I got shot?

Same as point 1 that last question.
But it made sense because the "he" in the last sentence wasn't referring to you but to Mac. Someone said that even if Mac would have tried killing you, you wouldn't have joined his ranks because Mac is an alien and Judas becomes mafia. I was questioning this "certainty" of scum-Mac being an alien, as opposed to a mafia.

I'm surprised to see so many people prefer VT over Judas. Guess I'll have to drop that point, but I still find it a very counterintuitive choice.

[Grimgroove]

This is probably JasonWazza trolling, that was a scumslip if I've ever seen one.

[Grimgroove]

Damnit!

[Grimgroove]

We coulda been scum buddies ;_;

If you hadn't been lynched, I would have policy killed you for not choosing a werewolf role.
I was hoping DrDolittle was a Judas, Mac was an Alien, and was counting on Amrun to be a possible mislynch, considering her JasonWazza-vote was incredibly scummy.
Seems like a rather random ending but congrats to the winners anyway. My first MS-death, and loss :p

[Grimgroove]

Still can't figure out how CDB was on to me by the way

[Grimgroove]

Why didn't cupid's Arrow work on me?

[Grimgroove]

We were not made to be loved

[Grimgroove]

The lynch on JasonWazza was bad. There's no denying it.
In-game I was agreeing with him being scummy because I don't want to rub town the wrong way at the time, but it was an objectively terrible speedlynch.
Thought it would work out better for me though. Already saw myself winning this, but did not take 2 mafiabuddies into account. Not that that would have changed much from my PoV.

[Grimgroove]

Are you going to tell me how you figured me out, CDB? :p

[Grimgroove]

I had Mafia Goon twice during the first go, so I didn't really have a choice.