Micro 14: Think Twice (Day 2) *Sunshine Icon Here*

[Timeater]

woooooooooooooo

who's scum talk to me people so i can use my spidey sense to determine this

[Timeater]

ice

why is that relevant

[Timeater]

how hard are you thinking about your response right now

[Timeater]

PEdit: Ice, because I hadn't gotten a handle on the site's meta of faking votes.

is this an ad-hom attack?

please provide links to the situation ice has mentioned

[Timeater]

Err, to get this started, I'm going to say that I am about the worst person to get cleared, so I'm going to request that I don't be lynched day 1.

are you proposing that only someone we should focus on "clearing" someone over just lynching scum?

[Timeater]

that we should focus on*

[Timeater]

@saulres - what do you think of my posts so far
@cobbler - what do you think of siv's first post

[Timeater]

PEdit: Ice, because I hadn't gotten a handle on the site's meta of faking votes.

is this an ad-hom attack?

Misread this. Thought you were saying Ice didn't have a handle on site meta.

1. You say its "ridiculously" frowned upon - Does this mean you disagree with the general assertion that self voting is bad?
2. You contradict yourself in the same post - a sign of cognitivie dissonance; which is a symptom of being scum. It arises because you want to accomplish several different things at once in the same post (you want to look townie, you have an agenda). I think you're scummy because of #13. What do you have to say to that?

@Saul

I ask everyone random questions at the start of the day to kickstart various avenues of conversation. Also thanks for the dead qt link. Just a heads up I am generally a spammy-sort of poster. Shouldn't be a problem in a game with 5 people though.

[Timeater]

dem typos

[Timeater]

You just did it again, you know.

You said you need to think before you act.

Then you say as town you try not to edit your posts.

You realize those are two conflicting statements right

[Timeater]

Well thats one scum down. After getting other reads I dont change my mind.

Vote: Siveure

[Timeater]

Barring I wont change my mind after getting other reads*

[Timeater]

Siv, if you want me to read you as town just keep posting and post alot. If you're town, it'll seep through your ariticulation issues. However, I am saying no to any further discussion between us. I have nothing to discuss with you right now because I think you're scum.

[Timeater]

unvote

[Timeater]

you should know that time = power for the town

attempting to justify a quickhammer before lylo is pretty scummy

[Timeater]

i phrased that right (remembered its nightless)

attempting to justify burning our only power so quickly without having a moderate amount of conversation first is pretty scummy

[Timeater]

seems like a pretty jumpy move saul

[Timeater]

/walks up to saul and sniffs for evil

hmm.

trying to shift the blame? take responsibility

i put down the vote hoping scum would jump at his throat/who would vote him with me

@ice - what do you think of saul
@cobbler- answer my initial question + what do you think of saul also

[Timeater]

QLing does nothing for the scum here you should know that

[Timeater]

saul u scum

[Timeater]

pedit: It gets them into LyLo while they still have daytalk. That's not bad.

this is a scummy perspective

[Timeater]

I mean its something the scum would be thinking about not town

[Timeater]

The above post is very weird for numerous reasons

[Timeater]

why do you think I think its weird

[Timeater]

answer the question

obviously my behavior is worthy of your vote

so you must think I have ulterior motives for saying what I did

what are they

[Timeater]

Why exactly did you just vote me

[Timeater]

uh huh

But seeing as we are at an impass: pressure and reaction-testing.

what did you learn

[Timeater]

Your backpedaling has been noted btw

Mess with the Dark Knight you get the horns

[Timeater]

To say you did not just backpedal in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4262884 is just ludicrous.

You have taken to insinuation of "backpedaling" as an accusation of scumminess. I never associated it with your alignment.

[Timeater]

As for the post itself, I'll let ICEguy tell you why its "weird"

[Timeater]

You can wish to interpret the course of events that way if you wish

This is how I play. I will tunnel every single player in the game eventually.

[Timeater]

You can interpret*

[Timeater]

Not because it comes from a "scum perspective" (because that's bullshit just like the "doesn't get lynched" tell) but simply because scum is much more likely to remember this. I read the setup too with the "first 48 hours" part, but I didn't keep track of it - it simply did not occur to me that we are/were in the first 48 hours because it's irrelevant to me.

Um thats exactly what I meant

Ice your analysis on http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4262665 if you will.

Also Ice, your thoughts on Siv and I?

[Timeater]

...

Whats the meaning of this grey

[Timeater]

really

no vibes from either us, sounds like bullshit

i'm gonna have to press you

[Timeater]

Siv. Scum are going to try to manipulate you into mislynching me. Its the only way they can win. Scum are in

Cobbler|Saul|Ice

Vote: Cobbler

[Timeater]

What happened to your pseudovote?

[Timeater]

Also you are active in the forum right now (active enough to respond quickly to my vote)

Give me a real read on myself or Siv.

[Timeater]

Oh okay so its Ice+Cob then

GG

[Timeater]

Saul, hammer please.

[Timeater]

Nothing. It's still there and will become a real vote once there should be a hammer or 48 hours have elapsed, whatever happens later (saulres might be scum but he had a good point there).

lol@this

[Timeater]

Siv you're town.

Yes.

I am town.

Yes.

Dont let your paranoia get the best of you. Dont overcomplicate things. I had to pressure you like I did to get a proper read on you. Cobbler is just scum all over. Ice is scummier than Saul by a mile.

[Timeater]

Nobody fucking hammers.

Yes, please continue to act like you have something valuable to say while "48 hour dangerous scum talk session" is over in 2 hours or so.

[Timeater]

"nice try" "depending on when the 48 hours start"(LOL)

look at this snarky sniveling scumbag

@cobbler

what are you concerned about

I realize im an imposing player, please tell me what you are concerned about and I will try to alleviate those concerns. yes, I want to hammer scum and end the game quickly. I dont want this game to drag on for 3+ weeks. Pretty confident in my reads, but I'm not afraid of "thinking twice" =P. I was reluctant on you because I genuinely have a hard time reading noobies/people with articulation issues. And besides, not everyone posted yet. Ice guy and Cobbler have subsequently basically claimed scum. So yea.

[Timeater]

"nice try" "depending on when the 48 hours start"(LOL)

look at this snarky sniveling scumbag

@cobbler

what are you concerned about

I realize im an imposing player, please tell me what you are concerned about and I will try to alleviate those concerns. yes, I want to hammer scum and end the game quickly. I dont want this game to drag on for 3+ weeks. Pretty confident in my reads, but I'm not afraid of "thinking twice" =P. I was reluctant on you because I genuinely have a hard time reading noobies/people with articulation issues. And besides, not everyone posted yet. Ice guy and Cobbler have subsequently basically claimed scum. So yea.

[Timeater]

unvote

rethinking

[Timeater]

I'm seeing a very likely Siv-Tim scumteam here.

lol, just lol.

If you think I'm scum vote for me. Lynch me. Lynch me today.

Please

. As for your comments; you're speaking from an entry-level perspective when its obvious I'm playing the game at a much higher level.

Siv's recent post made me rethink my position on him. Gonna let you guys flounder a bit without me and observe what happens.

[Timeater]

Speaking of which, Tim, when did you go from "Siv is scum" to "Siv is town"? And in that post you put Cobbler at L-1, which I still don't understand. What if he's town and scum quickhammered? Which is clearly what you were going for, with Ice not hammering and you calling him on not doing so, even though earlier you were calling me on thinking of doing the same thing to Siv. So it's not okay to do to Siv but it is okay to do on Cobbler?

Gah! And then in 86 you even ask me to hammer! Make up your mind, is hammering good or bad? Or does it depend on who the lynchee would be?

Going to address these points one by one. The numbers are associated with each question in sequential order.

1. Whenever I want. Since you never played with me before I can understand your confusion at my rhetoric and style. Generally I dont give a fuck and will change my mind on the drop of a dime.
2. Yes, because at the time I was dead certain he was scum with Iceguy. Cobbler's initial interaction with me I read as extremely scummy; e.g his vote on me which he refused to explain then backed out of as I got confrontational. This + Ice's refusal to commit to reads on myself and Siv made me think I had the game locked down. This still might be the case, and Siv just might be really bad and paranoid, I dont know yet.
3. Its a different situation for reasons I already laid out. The time for the "scum talk period" is obviously up. Look at the start of the day and around when that happened. I was right, Ice was wrong. He clearly misrepresented the situation to make me look bad and himself look good. Not everyone in the game had spoken yet when that happened. I think the situations are pretty different. AND even if WAS being hypocritical, is being hypocritical scummy? Why? I dont think so. Its my playstyle to do what I want and just have the troops fall in line. So yes, its not okay to do it to Siv and its okay to do it to cobbler. Yes it is. I wasn't even sure of my siv read at the time.
4. Is "hammering good or bad"? This seems like an empty attack miming what has been already been said. It feels like you needed ammunition here so you say "OH TIMEATER IS SO INDECISIVE HE IS NOT CREDIBLE". If you're town, dont commit subtle ad-hom attacks like this. Its bad. Also its vindictive, which scummy.

Okay that being said refer to my above post. Gonna think about the game some more. Siv, please do not lurk. Please be active and post and try to scumhunt. Thanks.

[Timeater]

Didn't I already tell you, masons and monks its in my wiki

Whatever I was looking at post #1 I think

[Timeater]

Siv do you know how to scumhunt

[Timeater]

Do you understand the concept?

Do you see how I've played this game?

[Timeater]

Siv whats your mafia experience prior to mafiascum

[Timeater]

Having said that, I haven't had a correct read in I can't remember how long. I think after this game I'll stick to modding. That's a large part of why I'd like Tim's reasoning for thinking you're conftown in his eyes. If

he

's not scum, maybe there's something I'm missing.

keep saying dumb shit like this and you're gonna get lynched

[Timeater]

cobbler and ice

are you guys just gonna lurk or what

[Timeater]

before i go for the day i'd also like to say I want everyone to commit to giving full reads on everyone in the game before we lynch

[Timeater]

Because I already said why. I said my read on Siv is floudering, can you not read? I said I needed him to post more, can you not read? I'm leaning on him town yes, but his unvote made me rethink my stance, can you not read?

I've already gone over this. I have answered your question. Why are you misrepresenting the situation, thats scummy. Are you just not reading the thread? Thats scummy too.

Why would I have town read on Siv? Because his "I suck at this game" reads genuine. Could be scum pleading, I dont know yet. Also the whole "dont lynch me today" reads genuine. Scum would be more careful than that but I dont yet as I have yet to fully grasp his character and style.

Get the fuck on my level or dont come at me with this weak shit or I'm gonna get aggressive. You wont like me when I'm aggressive.

[Timeater]

None of this null shit.

If you think I'm scum say why. I've given you more than enough information to form a proper read. Stop being ambiguous. It defeats the purpose of what I'm trying to accomplish here.

Also; are Cobbler and Ice ever gonna post or what.

[Timeater]

Um, how was that obvious? How is it obvious you wont be lynched today? How is your alignment obvious?

Seems like a bullshit thing to say

[Timeater]

Is a 5 player game really that hard to keep up with?

[Timeater]

Its a dumb question so I ignored it.

Explain why you cant keep up with a 5 player game.

[Timeater]

3 pages of content and you remark on irrelevant shit with innane one-liners

[Timeater]

Answer it. You seem to be the only player that has a problem with null reads. Do you want to force players to make up reads?

Its a weak copout.

I have no problems with null reads in a 13+ player game.

In a 5p game I have a problem. There has been more than enough content posted by myself, saulres, and siv to form reads on them. You and cobbler to a lesser extent because you've been dodging the thread.

The problem with saying "lol null" in a 5p, especially this game, is that it gives you wiggle room as scum. A lot of it. At the end of the day before the lynch, once we have everyone commit to reads, scum have less options in terms of practicality of their play. I'm not saying everyone has to stick to those reads, I'm saying its good record to have. Also full reads are not a problem considering there is no nightkill.

[Timeater]

So you're not keeping up yourself, because what I've seen from you was spamming the thread with ever-changing underexplained reads and stupid arguments like null reads are bad.

Or, you know, we're actually keeping up. Except I'm sifting through the mountains of irrelevant stuff and try to find the few things in this six-page game that could be indicative of alignment, while you produce aforementioned mountains.

Nice ad-hom bro!

I'm waiting for you and cobb to attempt to show us solid reads then I'll solidify my own.

[Timeater]

Forgot I was dealing with Empking-lite.

It'd be an ad-hom if I'd said I think you make forming reads difficult because you smell.

It's not an ad-hom if I criticize your playstyle because it makes forming reads difficult.

Wrong.

Alternatively, you pull a Timeater and change your reads in around every third post.

Other than that, I don't buy the "wiggle room" theory. Doing an 180 does get you a lot of heat but so does doing an 90. Or would you not call me out if I'd suddenly declare Siv town or scum without a reason?

More ad hom. Its not a theory. Commit to a read on me or get lynched today okay thanks bye.

My null reads aren't "null because I can't read them".

They're "null because A, B and C indicates they're scum, and D and E indicate they're town, and A, B and C combined carry as much weight as D and E combined".

Are you a wizard or something? Please teach me the mathology of scumhunting, PLEASE!!!

[Timeater]

Vote: IceGuy

[Timeater]

I dont respond to entry-level scum baiting

[Timeater]

IceGuy is the lynch for today.

100% never changing my vote

[Timeater]

IceGuy - Scum (strong read)
Saul - Town (strong read)
Cobbler - Scum (weak read)
Siv - Town (weak read)

[Timeater]

rofl

stop being bad please

[Timeater]

siv+ice is a possibility

cobbler get in here dayum

None of this null shit.

If you think I'm scum say why. I've given you more than enough information to form a proper read. Stop being ambiguous.

It defeats the purpose of what I'm trying to accomplish here.

Is this your purpose?

I'm waiting for you and cobb to attempt to show us solid reads then I'll solidify my own.

You want to see what everyone thinks before giving your own? So you can tailor your reads to them? How convenient it would be for scum to know what mislynch they could get today, and who will win the game if they lynch tomorrow.

This is why I'm null on you. You seem town and then you go and do a scummy thing like this.

(And yes, I know you gave them later, but only after IceGuy challenged you. That's not as strong a counter as if you had done it immediately.)

Also, asking everyone to "play up to your level", whatever that is -- look, if you're some sort of super-great mafia player, good for you. You're on a site full of people who aren't, and when you /in to a game you get what you get. If that's bothering you, perhaps you should restrict your play to only games where you have some control over who's playing in them.

More and more I want to know your alignment because I'm starting to think you're going to be as dangerous in a possible LyLo as Siv.

Siv

: Are you voting Ice because you think he's scum, because you think he'd be a better as a confirmed townie, or because you're just sheeping?

@Mod: When does cobbler come due for a prod?

Now might be good. He hasn't been onsite in over two days...

Yes. Because I'm the Big Dog of this game. I'm calling the shots. I'm leading. I'm the proactive force. This is how I play town. Meta one of my hundred billion town games and see for yourself. Its not so I can "tailor my reads" its so I can be in control and have all these little lurky scumfucks do what I want. Sure, I can understand you getting a lil upset at my arrogance, but realize its just a playstyle not my personality at all. I suck at scum. I'm loud as town. Its pretty obvious I'm town here.

[Timeater]

@townies

Dont let your egos get in the way of winning.
Dont let your paranoia cloud your reads.

In other news Cobbler hasn't been on site for a few days so he's not active lurking, which is a good sign.

[Timeater]

lol if you're town (which you arent) you deserve to be policy lynched like RBT

[Timeater]

If I'm so scummy why arent you voting me

[Timeater]

Saul can we lynch Ice now?

[Timeater]

Oh right you are

[Timeater]

Cobbler could I convince you IceGuy is scum?

[Timeater]

Do you only vote based on what you think are scumslips?

Attitude, tonality, approach, dont factor in for you?

[Timeater]

Also just curious but why the v/la where were ya

[Timeater]

lol

siv you are really bad

players are coasting right now and you dont even realize it

[Timeater]

unvote me now

[Timeater]

they will not hesitate to hammer

[Timeater]

SIV GET OFF ME NOW I SEE YOU READING THE THREAD

[Timeater]

DOESNT FUCKING MATTER IT WONT BE CONSIDERED A QUICKHAMMER

GET THE FUCK OFF ME IM OBVIOUSLY TOWN

IF AM LYNCHED, I

OWN

YOUR VOTE

[Timeater]

VOTE: Timeater

He's not the most scummy, but he's somewhat scummy, and definitely the best person to have confirmed.

GOOD GOD USE YOUR BRAIN

LYNCHING SCUM WILL ALWAYS BE INFINITELY BETTER THAN LYNCHING TO CONFIRM

[Timeater]

WHY ARE YOU STALLING I KNOW YOURE READING THE THREAD

[Timeater]

I think I'm getting a better view of Timeater's playstyle, and I see now that just because his refusal to answer could be used to avoid having to posting made up opinions as scum, it doesn't mean that he is scum. I'd unvote him, but he's still the scummiest player:

I wanted to see how you would react to obstinancy. I wanted to see how you would react when the tables were flipped. You were evasive and you backed down. I felt that was scummy. To say that I have EVER avoided "posting my opinions" in this game is insanely far from reality.

Not only does this come from a suspicious mindset, as Siv put in better words, it's also hyperbolic in its untruth. Even if he's town, the scum would not have to lynch him to win. This could be a scumslip, because if he's scum, his opponents would have to lynch him to win. This post also convinces me that Siv and Timeater are not scum together.

It was hyperbole, yes. Why is it a "suspicious mindset". Technically the scum wouldn't have to lynch me to win but I'm speaking in terms of practicality. I am almost -never- lynched hence my arrogance about my town play and my thoughts about ME being lynched. I've been lynched like once in 20 something games on MS. WOO SELF META but its true. And obviously I'm not scum with Siv. OBVIOUSLY. I'm not scum period and I dont think he is, though his recent topsy-terving votes on me is making me nervous.

Keep in mind that this is a setup without power roles and even if there is a mislynch on D1, the townie is simply confirmed.

Why are you playing this down?

[Timeater]

Just taking a break from mafiascum. Competition is fun, but can be stressful.

Who are you competing against?

[Timeater]

I'm not touchy I want your dumbass to unvote me.

[Timeater]

Touchy, aren't you? If I'm voting you, you are obviously not obviously town to me.

Also, obvscum rarely is.

I think you're possibly scum, and yeah.

PEdit: I don't know how to put this at all.

So one moment I'm town the next "not obviously town"

"Also obvscum rarely is" - rarely is what? That makes no sense. Rarely is touchy? Are you saying I'm some fucking brad pitt-tier actor here? With the speed of these posts all 100% genuine?

No you dont know how to put it because you're full of SHIT

[Timeater]

Damn Ice for being a shitty scummy empking player
Damn Siv for being a useless scummy noob
Damn Saul for being genuinely scummy and hard to read
Damn Cobb for being scummy as fuck

you're all awful and i'm gonna have to hammer one of you tomorrow

great

[Timeater]

He took a break because of the "competition" and just dodged that question when I asked him about it.

Do you "compete" against your fellow townies? no

Eating crow on the Ice thing.

Unvote

[Timeater]

Tim: Regarding Ice, I'm really not seeing the argument that he's scum, or that he's a better target to be conftown if we're wrong than you or Siv would be. I would rather put my vote on one of you two (or Cobbler).

So basically everyone in the game is a good lynch target? Gotcha

[Timeater]

I'm not scummy. Only bad players read me as scummy.

[Timeater]

Or mafia.

[Timeater]

Vote: Timeater

[Timeater]

kk

[Timeater]

Tomorrow, you will cross who I tell you to.

You can make your cases to me, for I will be The King.

Then I will hammer.

[Timeater]

Noting the Siv commentless dodge.

[Timeater]

yeah

not talking now are you

fuckers

[Timeater]

shut up bad kid

[Timeater]

You think I'd self-hammer as scum?

Jesus christ.

[Timeater]

Why am I not seeing any of these types of posts from you Ice

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3498538

[Timeater]

Also, none of you vote for ANYONE, until I fucking tell you to.

Siv, I will tell you who to vote for.

[Timeater]

Refusal to comply will result in your lynch

So unless you're town and you want to lose, you will do what I tell you.

[Timeater]

Siv is making a good case on why he should be today's lynch.

You realize this is lylo right?

So why act like it isnt?

This is why I like you for scum.

[Timeater]

Iceguy and Saul are BOTH pushing Siv and Cobbler.

This has been noted.

[Timeater]

Wondering if Saul is good enough to make a play like that

Link me to some scum games Saul.

[Timeater]

and town games please

[Timeater]

who are the two scum players saul

[Timeater]

Cobbler please convince me you're town

[Timeater]

Also what did you mean by competition

[Timeater]

because you're only in one game

[Timeater]

I just want to rage vote Siv tbh

[Timeater]

were onsite when i was l2 ice

[Timeater]

Tim, DON'T VOTE. On the chance you hit town, scum has a win, assuming they're on. The chances of the townie hitting the other townie is unlikely, especially if you order second scummiest to vote for scummiest.

\

you realize how retarded this is right

[Timeater]

that has to be one of the worst posts in a game in the history of MS

[Timeater]

@ ice

were you* onsite, meaning did you have site presence (post elsewhere, too lazy to look it up)

[Timeater]

you guys can vote siv im ready to hammer

[Timeater]

yeah you're just abysmal

if you're town i honestly dont give a shit

[Timeater]

fucking lol

[Timeater]

lol he just admitted to being scum

[Timeater]

I agree, Cobb vote Siv please.

[Timeater]

I honestly dont care if Siv is town whatever fuck it

[Timeater]

why are you arguing with saulres

you realize im the one you have to be pleading to right

[Timeater]

lol so they haven quickhammered

[Timeater]

*twiddles thumbs*

[Timeater]

Someone please vote siv so i can hammer yawn

[Timeater]

siv has admitted to being scum on several occasions uptil now I dont see why we have to wait for anyone

[Timeater]

saul get in here and vote siv

unless this is some massive practical joke and siv is town, we have two extra lynches =D

[Timeater]

do it dude

=\

cobbler did it because he had to, think about it

we lynch between cobb and ice after siv flips game is over we won gg

[Timeater]

what the fuck are these numbers stop being arbitrarily irrelevantly pointless

no shit we lose if we ML

man up and do what i ask please

[Timeater]

any attempt to dissuade me from siv (which you've already done) will be met with extreme suspicion

[Timeater]

saul, did you miss the part where siv claimed scum?

[Timeater]

jesus christ

[Timeater]

Just for starters

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4277201
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4277271
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4277287
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4279816

[Timeater]

I've thought about this on a level you aren't prepared to visit

[Timeater]

So, I'll wait for Ice.

If he's the worst VI in the history of mafiascum sobeit.

[Timeater]

Those aren't slips, those are VI moves. Remember, we're talking about a guy who in my game

self-hammered

to put the town in LyLo.

Also this is such a gross under simplification and misrepresentation you pretty much have to be his parter if/when he flips.

[Timeater]

over-simplificiation*

[Timeater]

Cobbler-Siv team: +2 +1 +(either +1 or -2) +2 +2 +2 = 9 + (either +1 or -2) so either 10 or 7. 6 events. So either 1.67 or 1.1

Cobbler-Ice team: +1 +2 = 3. 2 events. So 1.5

Siv-Ice team: -2 +2 +1 +1 +1 +2 = 5. 6 events. So .833

What the hell is this jibbering nonsense?

Seriously.

[Timeater]

Those aren't slips, those are VI moves. Remember, we're talking about a guy who in my game

self-hammered

to put the town in LyLo.

also he self hammered under the pretense that his vote format was wrong and would not count

misrep more please

[Timeater]

you werent trying thats why you casually mull over reality to make your points seem stronger

because i control the hammer fuckhead

[Timeater]

lol

[Timeater]

u saul, u

u make me laff

[Timeater]

gg

[Timeater]

Timeater vs Two Scum: The Game

[Timeater]

I dont care really.

[Timeater]

Sorry for the low quality of this game GI

I just felt like I was playing alone here

[Timeater]

also competition was a slip

=p

[Timeater]

Please dont act like this game wasnt a wash.

Thanks for modding Grey. Interesting setup.