Micro 4 - Double Day Unlimited (Over)

[N]

VOTE: Yosarian2
VOTE: Fate
VOTE: UberNinja
VOTE: Jarvis
VOTE: Om of the Nom
VOTE: N
VOTE: IceGuy
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage
VOTE: Kcdaspot

Two of them have got to be right.They're in there somewhere.

[N]

VOTE: N

Self-votes in a list of players containing all the scum? Scum claim much.

What's a logic? Just because a list contains mafia and also contains me doesn't mean the two are linked. If I'd voted for everyone except myself, I know people would've jumped on that straight away too. What alternative did I have?

Okay, so I could have just

not

voted for everyone, but where's the fun in that?

[N]

By voting for everyone, basically all you just did was lower the lynching threshold on everyone, so now it only takes 4 more votes to lynch someone instead of 5. Do you think that that's a pro-town thing to do here?

Here I was assuming people would look at the vote count and think "hmm... that person is at L-1 already and it's still RVS. I'd better not also put my RVS on there." I would think that to hammer this early on without a massively good reason would be tantamount to claiming scum.

[N]

So what you're saying is I should
UNVOTE: N

[N]

No, I'm asking why you did. And a little more.

I've got to admit - it's mainly

because I can

. It's unlimited voting and anyone that doesn't take advantage of that is a fool. It's like not posting anything rude from your friend's facebook when they leave themselves logged in.

[N]

You got me, I just wanted to use the word 'tantamount'.

[N]

You got me, I just wanted to use the word 'tantamount'.

Holy shit.

See this? This panic-justifying himself to Yos? And the last time too. Fuuuuuuuck.

Yos is the only one that's actually talking, so of course I'm going to reply to them.

[N]

Yes, mum.

UNVOTE: All

[N]

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage - he's made three posts with an average of 5 or 6 words each one.

It's early on, and I don't have much to go on, but I don't think UberNinja, IceGuy, Om of the Nom or Kcdaspot are scum. Not so sure about Yosarian2, Fate or Jarvis. Obviously I'm quite likely to be completely wrong, so I'm not going to vote yet.

Okay, experiment over.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jarvis

I think you have to say who you're unvoting.

[N]

N parking his vote on ABR for shit reasons is pretty bad considering the amount of content already in the game.
Who do you think is scum and why?

Content from other people, sure, but none from him.

And was that last bit directed at me too, or was it general? I'm leaning towards Fate at the moment, because of vote-hopping, but I figure it's pretty early on and if I voted for everyone that had changed their vote, I'd be voting for everyone again. Yosarian2 and Jarvis too, because they're coming across a bit bossy, but I don't know their play-style so maybe that's just how they roll.

[N]

What more reasons do you want? It's page 4.

[N]

Uhhh, it's page 4 and IceGuy has certainly managed to give great reasoning >_>
It's the same amount of pages for him as it is for you.

I imagine it's quite dark that far up IceGuy's ass.

[N]

Don't give me that shit, when the total of your reasoning is:

@Om

- Reads now please.

Welp, after recent developments IceGuy is scum.
You are town.
I am leaning scum on Kcda due to gut.
Fate is probably town.
Yos is probably town.
Not sure on the rest.

and

Shit man, IceGuy is being pretty convincing.
I agree with a lot of his Jarvis case, but I'd rather see a reaction from Jarvis before I vote.
I was actually a little weary of Yos earlier. IceGuy just convinced me further of that read.
VOTE: Yosarian2

N parking his vote on ABR for shit reasons is pretty bad considering the amount of content already in the game.
Who do you think is scum and why?

"Hurrr, here are some names and not what I think of them or why" and "I like IceGuy; he smells nice."

[N]

Is that all you wanted? I thought you were looking for something a lot more in depth than that, which I don't have.

Okay, I think both you and kcda are town because you were mucking around a lot at the start of the game. I know this is a pretty crappy reason, and I'm projecting my own feelings from the start of the game: not having anything in particular to do and waiting for someone to make a slip-up. I honestly think if I put a vote on you, it would be a waste.

Jarvis and Yos: I'm thinking town, because although they've been aggressive, they've listened to reasons from other players and taken those on board. And I guess another positive is that they haven't just steamrolled their way to a lynching, even though they've had plenty of opportunities.

UberNinja is replacing out, which is I feel not something he'd do as mafia. He gives off the vibe of someone who would rather be in control of a situation and is struggling with not having that control.

Who does that leave? Um... IceGuy, Albert and Fate. IceGuy leans town, as you agree, although I'm not as confident on him. Albert I've already voted for because out of his three posts, two contain votes and little else. So... Fate... their post count is quite high, but that's mainly because they are all one-liners.

Wait, that's only 8. I'm missing someone.

Oh, myself. I can understand my posts are a bit all over the place, but this is my first game. (I'm still waiting for my newbie to start...) I know newbieness shouldn't be a get out of jail free card, but I've been honest in all my posts.

You asked me I haven't voted for you, and I put the question back to you. Questioning/attacking someone doesn't equal thinking they're scum.

[N]

How does the double-lynch work? Does the first lynch happen ASAP (and the lynchee can't talk anymore), or do they both happen at the same time (and the first person hammered can talk until the end of the day (when second person is also lynched))?

Also, I just want to put it out there that I have no intentions of hammering anyone at this time. Make of that what you will.

I'll be nicer to you then, considering this is your first game. Though tbh you're playing rather decently so far.

This is why I didn't want to play the newbie card. It was my decision to sign up for a non-newbie game; I don't want to drag it down to newbie level for the rest of you.

[N]

There, now it's much more accurate

New tells:
~Not giving a shit about how people are reading me.
~Acting like an arrogant asshole for teh lulz.
~Frequent Buddying of awesome people
~Fluffing it up like a mofo.

Oh look at that: your new and improved towntells are just like how you're playing this game! What an unbelievable coincidence!

I'm not going to hammer, in case Maestro (welcome, by the way!) wants to take all those votes off.

Oh, and

mod, (if you haven't already) can we get a prod on kcdaspot please?

[N]

wow I should've just hammered when I had the chance

N, vote IceGuy because we've obviously got some derptown here between OmNom and Maestro.

All right, but if he flips scum, I know exactly who I'm voting for next time.

VOTE: IceGuy

I really hope I don't regret this.

[N]

Oh look at that: your new and improved towntells are just like how you're playing this game! What an unbelievable coincidence!

So you're saying that I would go out of my way to edit my wiki (that anyone can see) just so that I could be cleared in this game alone?

...Yes, I am.

[N]

You're the one that did it.

[N]

Why did you do it at all?

[N]

To coincide with how you're playing this particular game.

[N]

I isolated your posts in that thread and I don't see any of your "new tells".

[N]

I guess so, if you squint.

[N]

wow I should've just hammered when I had the chance

N, vote IceGuy because we've obviously got some derptown here between OmNom and Maestro.

All right, but if he flips scum, I know exactly who I'm voting for next time.

VOTE: IceGuy

I really hope I don't regret this.

Well, damn.

VOTE: Jarvis

N- Similar reasoning for his read. He's revealed his thoughts on all the players and he's not been cautious are afraid to post his thoughts when they don't always agree with everyone. The main thing that looks scummy is he said he's leaning town on iceguy then votes him shortly afterward. Overall though the way he's played mostly leans town and when voted.

Yeah, I should have thought about that vote a bit longer. My two main reasons for the IceGuy vote were
- I was getting sick of the whole circling around doing nothing thing
- If IceGuy flips scum, good; if not, Jarvis is looking pretty damn suspicious now. I'm sure one of them is scum, and seeing as how it wasn't IceGuy, it must be Jarvis.

[N]

Thoughts on who Jarvis's buddy is?

[N]

Have a look at that wall. Have you ever seen a wall so defensive? Ain't it a beauty!

[N]

In that post of mine you quoted in your wall, I said why I thought you should be the next lynch, but you grabbed a bit out of context that sounded good to you.

Look at you talking about that mislynch as though you weren't the driver of the wagon. And I don't know where you're getting this idea of new-found confidence: I said, on this page, that I had no idea where to go after you.

[N]

you hammered whats his name so obviously youre gettnig lynched today. I'm just trying to make sure we get scum lynched as well wit a double hammer. Vote for Om nom, Jarvis

Can we discuss this post?

[N]

What's happened to Albert? His last post was saying he'd be away until Friday. It's now Sunday - what's the deal?

[N]

I isolated Jarvis's posts, and a lot of them were either attacking IceGuy or Om of the Nom, or complimenting Fate. (I don't know if complimenting is the right word, but Jarvis's comments directed at Fate were a lot friendlier than those directed at the other two.

So, my conclusion is: Jarvis was either distancing himself from Om or working together with Fate. I'm not sure whether this is a good conclusion or not, but it's all I've got at the moment.

VOTE: Om of the Nom
VOTE: Fate

I will say I'm leaning more toward Fate at the moment.

[N]

Did that really just happen?

UNVOTE: Om of the Nom

[N]

In the second post I ASK for Jarvis to vote for Om nom, clearly I didn't know he was hammered.

So what you're saying is you are unable to read a mere 36 posts. (Yes, I counted them - lynch to lynch was only 36 posts, so actually it would have been even less when you came on and hammered Jarvis.)

I don't believe that; you knew enough that IceGuy was dead, and that Jarvis was the one driving the wagon. I suspect your thought process was more like "Oh crap, Jarvis is about to get lynched and if I'm not on that wagon I'm going to look pretty suspect."

[N]

VOTE: Om of the Nom
Guys, I caught scum already.

[N]

Oh, and VOTE: Om

[N]

Why?

[N]

You never said anything about him until last page.

:\
I'm at a 1 for 3 in scum lynches, let's make it 2 for 4!
VOTE: ABR

is that first mention of him you made.

[N]

And how, from one page, in which he shared pretty much the same opinions as you, did you deduce he was scum?

[N]

N knows he just hammered...right? He dies next.

I actually didn't notice when I did it, but I don't regret doing it. Why are you planning ahead when Om hasn't even flipped yet?

[N]

Well, shit. Om's flip really surprised me, and I've been thinking about what to do next. I was pretty sure I'd still be alive in the morning, because to be honest, I've played a really shitty game and have voted for every one of those lynches. No more mucking around - one of you two are scum and I need to be absolutely sure before I vote for anybody this time. I actually don't have much on either of you, because you're both replacements. I do have a suspicion on one of you, but I need to check who replaced who again so I can see if that matches with my early thoughts on your predecessors.

Alright, so this is lylo (right?) and it looks like it might be a scum win; I look like the most likely lynch. So I'm pleading for my life and for a town win - don't pull that trigger yet. I shouldn't've voted for IceGuy so early, but I thought I had a master scum-hunting plan: that either he or Jarvis were scum. When that worked, I thought I was onto something and pulled the same thing with Fate and Om, and that backfired.

I've been trying to perfect this post for a while now, and I don't think I'll ever get it the way I want it, and if I don't post it soon I'm likely to delete the whole thing again.

[N]

Yeah, Mehdi - get online please. I'm still all for lynching N.

Why so hasty? The other wagon (which you also supported) also just flipped town.

N should be quaking in his boots.

I just said that I was.

[N]

Because I've played a shitty game and I know I look bad. Okay, I'm not quaking, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if I'm today's lunch.

[N]

Okay, my thoughts on the two of your from the past few days:

Mehdi:

• The only one who thought Fate was town, which could be scum trying to create town-cred for later in the game
  
• Says predecessors are irrelevant, because both posting so very little content
  
• More cautious voting throughout the game
  
• Wasn't around during the Om lynch

Maestro:

• Voted for Fate when it became clear he was going to be next lynched
  
• Straight-away tells me who replaced who (they replaced UberNinja, who I had previously stated I had a town read on)
  
• Jumps from suspect to suspect
  
• Was on both the Om and ABR wagons

When I started typing that, I wasn't sure which way I was leaning, but it's becoming more obvious to me now.

I don't trust my own reasoning, though, so I'm just going to go through everyone else's. (i'm going to refer to myself in third person for this bit to save confusion.)
ABR: suspected Om of the Nom, Fate and Maestro (259, 260); not N or Mehdi (279)
Fate: voted continuously for Maestro, Om, Jarvis and N (199, 232, 243)
I'm not going to include Ice Guy, because he was lynched before either of you really had a chance to post (although I will mention he said to lynch Jarvis, Yos and N (149))
Jarvis (scum): posted in massive walls and tunnelled IceGuy (all early posts); later voted for Om, Yos and N (167, 192)
Om: spent most of the first part of the first day mucking around, then tunnelled Jarvis in part 2; next day tunnelled Fate and then ABR
Yos: suspected IceGuy and Om (118), although this was quite early in the game and neither of you had replaced in yet
Maestro: came just before IceGuy's flip and went straight for Jarvis; most of day 2 voted with all the main wagons, until Om was hammered and immediately went for me (289, before Om had flipped)
Mehdi: 170 thought Fate, N, Maestro and Yos town; thought Jarvis was scum.. 212 thought Om, Maestro and Fate town; N and ABR null

[N]

I actually thought who I suspect came through clearly in the post, sorry. I'm leaning towards Maestro=scum, but not enough to vote yet. Got any info I missed?

[N]

@Mehdi: Your request is more than appropriate given the situation, I will respond as soon as possible.
(If you're wondering, I'm having problems in the game I'm Modding. I'm not ignoring this.)

Still waiting on this.

[N]

So what specific things makes maestro more likely to be scum then me in your mind (at the moment I'm honestly leaning towards you scum, but the more you explain your thoughts on him/me the more it'll help me decide better)?

I'm waiting on answers to both.

Honestly, these things could be a tell for either way, but you've been more conservative on who you vote and seem to be hoping your reads are correct, whereas Maestro has been thinking in the long-term (see, for instance: turning on Om before Fate had flipped, and me before Om had even flipped, as though he already knew Fate/Om were going to be town). He's been trying to breadcrumb who his next suspect will be before the current one has flipped, so that he can point back and say "I told you so". I play more ... in the moment, I guess - I have no reason to doubt my current vote is on the right person, because if I did I wouldn't be voting them.

[N]

I've seen him posting elsewhere. I think he's abandoned us. so let's just get this over and done with.

VOTE: maestro

[N]

Okay, you're here. I was sick of waiting.

UNVOTE: Maestro

[N]

You promised Mehdi an explanation for the way you've played, and I just wanted to let you make that speech. (I'm also interested in what you have to say, of course...)

[N]

For fuck's sake, Maestro.

[N]

I've got heaps of stuff going on this week, so I thought I'd put it there just to be safe.

[N]

N; please link Town meta in your next post.

I'm sorry; I can't do that. I have no completed games (for town

or

scum). The best I can offer you is a night 1 (page 4 or 5) death in Micro 18, but that game hasn't been completed yet.

And damn that wall. It's switched me from leaning-maestro-scum to leaning-mehdi-scum. So well done on a sound argument there. I'm still not confident in voting for either of you yet, though.

[N]

I don't want to answer wall with wall, so I'll try and keep this short.

After you mentioned analysing the NK, I isolated Yos and ABR. Yos barely interacted with either of you, so I assume whoever killed him knew him previously and was worried he'd work them out. Either that, or because his suspicions were on IceGuy and Om and you (is in whoever is scum) wished to frame Om. ABR, on the other hand, didn't think it was Mehdi or myself. I feel like if one of us were the scum it would make more sense to kill the other so that his suspicions would be solely on Maestro, whereas from your perspective keeping him alive would be stupid because you were his biggest scum-read. (I think you covered that, saying it could be one of the other two of us playing funny buggers, but I don't see the point in doing that going into lylo.)

I'm also a bit confused about you going from "N dies next, no question about it" to "Mehdi's played scummy throughout".

Oh, and you called my sick of waiting vote "Town-who's-too-into-the-game-and-doesn't-realize-LyLo-should-be-taken-in-slow-baby-steps"; I think there's a difference between taking it slow and just not posting at all (hint: you were doing the latter). I'm not sure why you weren't posting; perhaps you were waiting for one of us to vote for the other so you could swoop in and quickhammer?

[N]

Interesting. 331 makes it seem like your opinion hasn't changed at all...

I'm not sure why we're still talking about the NK. We all know it's WIFOM, what did you want me to respond to exactly?

I didn't go "N dies next, no question about it" to "Mehdi's played scummy throughout," I went "N dies next - but after reread, reanalyze, and reaction test Mehdi looks just as bad if not worse." On that note, me not posting entirely was exactly what I said: it allowed me time to reread and reanalyze, and it allowed me to see how each of you would react to an unresponsive player in LyLo. You reacted with more foreseeable Town-motivation so that made me look even more closely at Mehdi than I already was going to.

Anything else?

I will admit my opinion is flip-flopping at the moment. From up on the fence I can see a bit more. This post s actually making me more suspicious of you: you want discussion of NKs to stop, and you're making up shitty "it was a reaction test, honest!" excuses as to why you didn't post for several days. Of course, now we wait for Mehdi. What's our deadline?

[N]

2 weeks from the 23rd...the 6th. So, a little while yet.

[N]

Perhaps mehdi not posting is because "it allows him time to reread and reanalyze, and it allows him to see how each of us would react to an unresponsive player in LyLo".

[N]

Mehdi, I don't think you ever explained why you thought Fate was definitely town. I think everyone else suspected him, but you refused to be associate in any way with his lynch. To me, this looks like you knew in advance that he was town (i.e., that you were scum), and thought that his flip would give you town-cred.

[N]

So your opinion never changed since your second post of the game? In that same post, you said both Maestro and I were leaning town - if your opinions haven't changed since then, it means that you must be the scum.

[N]

Am I saying what is unlikely? I'm saying I think Mehdi can't explain his read any better because all there was to it was "I'm scum and Fate isn't, therefore I can say I have a town-read on him and be truthful".

[N]

I'm not confident enough to vote yet. We've still got a few days and I'd like to take it slow. My other game (micro 18), someone quick hammered in lylo, and I don't want to make that mistake. (Although the person in question was PM...)

[N]

I'm really suspicious about you saying that, like you're trying to boost my ego and convince me whatever decision I make will be the right one. There's no point in going on about how town you see me, because I already know I'm town. But equally, when Mehdi sees you trying to convince me that I am town, that could push him onto suspecting you, which would be a pretty stupid thing to do as scum (especially when he already has said he's leaning more towards me being the scum), and pointless to do as town (because if he is the scum he would already know we're both town and doesn't need convinced either way).

[N]

Gah. I don't knoooooow

[N]

Okay, I've got a few days. I'll take this slow.

I guess I'll start by rereading the whole thread.

[N]

Okay, I just skim-read the whole post. Two main things that stuck out to me were that Jarvis/kcda relations early in the thread during RVS seemed forced (but this might be due to some previous game they played together, and it does look a bit like Medhi brought me to lylo because he thought I'd be an easy mis-lynch (although the same could be said for maestro, it's just that Maestro had said several times he suspected me, while Mehdi wasn't quite as confident).

Ill let you two argue for a bit while I go check out mini 1351, which Maestro mentioned as a game he bussed in (I think that's what post 258 meant).

[N]

I'm reading through it now. to be honest, how you acted with Jarvis was very similar to how you acted with McStab there. I have something else I noticed from your play there I want to check if is consistent in this game, too.

[N]

I as checking to see why you made your nightkills in the other game - it looked to me like you were killing those that suspected you (especially with guttersomething), and that matches with Yos having voted uberninja and abr having you as his last suspect.

Maestro, your confidence is unsettling :/

Mehdi, do you have any games I can look through?

[N]

I see you've got micro 3 in your sig; are there any others?

[N]

Thanks for those links; I'll get right to reading them. (I actually read micro 3 as it was happening, so I have no need to read up there.)

[N]

Is there a way to isolate your posts at the other forum?

[N]

I think I might have to sign up to do that. Damn.

[N]

I just had a read of the first dozen or so pages of one of the games Mehdi linked to on the other site. It's pretty different than how it's played here, but the only thing I really noticed about Mehdi was that he didn't post very much (but I didn't check tiimestamps, so that could have been because it was fast moving).

I'm really stressing about this game, but right now I'm leaning towards hammering Mehdi.

[N]

I'm going to sleep on this. Sorry or keeping everyone in suspense.

[N]

Can't I just vote for both of you? That would solve all my problems.

[N]

I don't think it would be; it would probably go to whoever was voted for first.

I'm getting close to a decision. Just one last question for you both (and I don't know how helpful it will be): what would your reaction be if it turned out I was the scum?

[N]

You're right; it was ill-thought-out. But then again, so was your reaction. Why the fuck would we still be going if I was the scum? You know I'm not, and your reaction was very forced.

[N]

If I don't do it now, I'll never do it. My hands are shaking right now.

VOTE: Maestro

[N]

That wasn't just based on that, but it clinched it. I had been reading your previous games, and when you were town in lylo (newbie 1228), you actually acted a lot like I am now, but when you were mafia in lylo (mini 1351) your actions were very similar to your current actions. Your long absence at the start of lylo can also be explained by you wanting Mehdi and I to go at each other and one of would hopefully (from your perspective) vote for the other so that you could swoop in and quickhammer.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. If so, I'm sorry.

[N]

I thought Mehdi had already voted?

[N]

If he hasn't, I've made a terrible mistake.

[N]

We'll see.

[N]

Were your hands really shaking with the hammer?

Yes, and they still are.

[N]

Where's Chaos? I'd like the Post-Game to start so N can stop being all stressed.

He's V/LA. I suspect that he was just checking in on all his games from his phone or something when he made that lost post.

[N]

Still not sure if you're fucking with me or not.

[N]

what would your reaction be if it turned out I was the scum?

This sounded a lot better in my head.

[N]

Fuckin' hindsight.