Micro 1087 | It's normal | It's over!

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Helloooooooooo! VOTE: ChicagoTypewriter

Booo, I expected better from a fellow Fire Emblem fan.
...
Don't want to break the chain, though.
VOTE: T3

[ChicagoTypewriter]

lol wut

VOTE: t3

ooooh good vote, i approve

Is this out of character behavior from T3?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

As I understand it Scum team members will typically *fight* with each other early on, so I'm always looking for that tell.

I'm a veteran Mafia player but haven't played in about two years, so am rusty.

Saving this for later. Kinda curious on how accurate this is...

I don't know about this, actually. Staged fights are useful, sure, but there are benefits to other strategies.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Do you have any thoughts on the game so far?

Yes, I'm working on a readlist. Sorry, I'm sometimes a little better about this, but this game went pretty fast so I have some catchup to do.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Okay, I'm doing a little better on catch-up. The most important thing here is I needed to make sure I actually want to keep my RVS vote on T3.

Overall:
-T3 seriously voted for Kcdaspot 31, unvoted

six minutes later

34, and then seemed to indicate that the initial vote wasn't icky 226. I'm not a fan of this voting behavior.
-T3 supports Random Nurse over Medeia (and who in turn supports T3 back). I'm not sure I like this. Calling them a scumteam seems a bit too obvious as this point given how much they're supporting each other, but ... well, it's kind of weird from my perspective, given I have a scumlean on Random Nurse right now; given his main gripe against Medeia is the refusal to add a vote for pressure.
-T3 is currently at E-2 with my vote, I believe. I'm find with this.

Decision: Vote stays. I'm going to work on the rest of the catchup, be back in a bit. (By which I mean later today, if I can get to it.)

[ChicagoTypewriter]

VOTE: CT
to make that catchup extra stressful

VOTE: meuh

VOTE: meuh

Listen, I appreciate you coming to my defense, but I'm not sure two cold votes in a row is neccesary here.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Okay, so to continue my barely-existent readlist, by the way:

Mia

meuh

: Lurkiest player besides me, I think. Hasn't really contributed much of substance to the game, though I kind of like her reads. Like scumread anyway, because the reads are pretty common; but on the other hand, I'd rather vote for T3, so...

skitter30

: A lot of 1-line posts. Scumreads T3, scumreads meuh for unknown reasons. Seems to townread the vast majority of the players; not sure I like this. I kind of want a full readlist with justifications from skitter30. Null read, for now; pending success of her reads.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Meuh - nullscum, don't like the lurking

So, to clarify, it's just lurking, nothing else?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Anyway, moving on with the scumlist because I really have to justify my existence in this game:

medeia: A lot of dialogue, not exceptionally analysis heavy (though to be fair, the quantity is such that even 10% analysis still outweighs most players.) Most early game is in response to being scumread. Continuing, not a lot of heavy reads or action from what I can tell. Fights with Random Nurse over pressure voting Pooky. Defends T3 from E-1. Claims to be scumhunting in 183, but I don't see it. 216 is reacting to reads on her. Overall, I have read over 70 posts from her, and I don't actually know who medeia is scumreading.
Null, pending. Townread the game, but I kind of really want a tl;dr post of scumreads.

Kcdaspot: I'm getting ... vague scumread from him? The whole discussion which emanates from 15 isn't good, it's reading too into a throwaway RVS question. 27 is just fundamentally wrong, it seems to indicate that the controlling player is scum 85% of the time.
Also the most extra player.

Random Nurse: I have no idea what a 'Town Contract' is, but making one up and directing it at a player, threatening to scumread if rejected is kinda scummy to me. Scumreads Pooky, no justification (though it might just be 'pressure', but Pooky's the most scum player according to him). Goes after medeia for not voting to pressure Pooky. Definite scumread.

PookyTheMagicalBear: In theory, I echo the sentiment of 88. In practice, I think Pooky is doing a good amount to scumhunt and drive out responses. I also like his votes.

ceejayvinoya: Lurker. Tied with meuh, actually as of the time I'm writing this. Hasn't done much but comment. Nullread.

Now? For starters, UNVOTE: T3, that vote isn't doing anything useful there. I still maintain my scumread, I just want to move it.
Next, VOTE: Random Nurse. He claims that pressuring to create reactions is a core tenet of the game, so I shall follow his logic and turn it on him. I would also like to hear his explanation as to how he hasn't been tunneling medeia.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Was that ur main takeaway from this post?

Kind of, actually. I don't like it when players vote scum without having a justifiable reasons, either posted previously or with the vote.

idk what you're failing to read but a lot of Skitter's posts makes sense to me

this feels like you just scanned her iso and looked for something to complain about.

Yeah, I think I object to half her readlist at this point.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Do either of those things make me scum?

No, it's why I have a nullread on you. It's not the 'I don't know what to do about this player' nullread, it's the 'well, this player seems pretty towny but equally could be a good scum throwing everyone off track' nullread. Either way, I don't think I have any interest in eliminating you today.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

the scum team is just Meuh + Joker imo

By which you mean Random Nurse?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Although @ pooky i dislike your random nurse thing fwiw

You have that strong of a tr on Random Nurse?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

This post really rubs me the wrong way. The conversation being had is about what strategies scum usually use, but then CT chimes in and talks about what strategies are good for scum. Like, why mention this?

"Know thy enemy, know thy self; fear not the result of 100 battles."

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Fair 'nuff.

Also, can we acknowledge that T3 has been lurking despite being scumread and has given basically no response to that at all? Just wanted to put that out there. (And, yes, I've been lurking too, but I'm trying to do something about that now.)

[ChicagoTypewriter]

VOTE: CT
to make that catchup extra stressful

Catchup is done, by the way.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

and like, you seem to know this? because you say you like meuh's reads (even though she is townreading multiple players you are scumreading) but you are scumreading her nonetheless?

Difference here is that Meuh has a marked lack of engagement. A good readlist is only half of a good town play.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

I feel like t3 is scummy

I feel like we have enough players to eliminate T3, it's just not happening because we have decided to wait until the last possible moment. Is this accurate?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

No? Who do you think we have to vote out t3?

We have:
CT
skitter30
PookytheMagicalBear
ceejayvinoya
Meuh
Kcdaspot(based on the above post?)

medeia may slightly scumread T3, unknown if its enough to vote

Random Nurse definitely doesn't.
And, obviously, T3 doesn't as well.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Chicago are you willing to vote meuh or t3?

Bah. Ninja'd.
No to the first, yes to the second. My scumread on meuh is on the shakiest of grounds and I don't feel petty enough for an OMGUS ... yet.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Chicago can u vote t3 ?

Aye, ma'am, cat's paw away.
VOTE: T3
...
...
I reserve the right to blame you if anything goes wrong.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Idk what ur trying to say

I have a recurring but unfortunate minor case of snark. It's not contagious but it's quite untreatable. Best to ignore it, honestly.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Wdym by 'cats paw'

Acting under orders, basically.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

My best bet rn is flipping thru t3/chicago/meuh but idk if that wins

Are you voting for T3?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Wouls help if t3 reacted to his wagon but alas

It's part of why I scum read him.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

sorry

...the way chicagotypewriter was...

...felt like chicagotypewriter was...

...fee like chicagotyperwriter was...

This is fine, btw, you can use male pronouns. I just do CT because I don't want to be called Chicago.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Why isn't Random Nurse an alt wagon, again?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Now? For starters, UNVOTE: T3, that vote isn't doing anything useful there.

I still maintain my scumread

, I just want to move it.

Bleghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
VOTE: CT

oh ok I believe in you VOTE: CT

(i've only been vote parking for like a week)
VOTE: ct

I'm OK with a CT lim.
VOTE: CT

Um, @invisibility four votes, Meuh is voting for me.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Okay, I'm posting a defense here in the interest of, y'know, not having a town elimination on Day 1.

First step - yes, I scumread Random Nurse. I go into it earlier, my reasons haven't really changed. He tunnels and seems to look for an excuse to scumread. Also I kind of now like when he explains how in 437 he prefers not to have quickhammers and then puts me at E-1 without either mentioning that I'm at E-1 or a good case.
This is not helping me not scumread Random Nurse.

Second step - seriously, Pooky? Yeah, I get that you analyzed my scumgame and have determined that this Day 1 is 'closer' to the scumgame. It's because of the posting volume here more than anything else, I went behind like eight pages at one point this game and I'm trying to claw back interaction. Sure, I'm taking flack for it (and I don't mind) but don't pretend a single scumgame is the end-all of comparison analysis.

Third step - I don't even know Meuh's case on me. Half of it seems to be of the 'Random Nurse is town' variety, some of it is against my game but it's in broad strokes so I don't know what specifically she doesn't like. (She mentions that '95% of my ISO is assessment of the game + people's posting', but that's not actually true, it's like half at best; and yes, that's how I do analysis. I can link a post from a recent game to prove it.) Skitter30 is consistent, if nothing else. She's been vocal about wanting to eliminate meuh, CT, or T3 this whole time and has been scumreading me for almost the entire game for lurking.

I can go on longer, but the hour is late where I am. If anyone also would actually like to post a case for scumreading me at this time (yes, I'm throwing shade) so I can respond to that, that would be appreciated. Also, for role claiming reasons, anyone intent on hammering, y'know, declare intent.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Will you claim, CT?

In theory, yes if the situation demands it. Currently, no. I'd need intent to hammer to roleclaim.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

I was going by the most recent VC on #536, which showed 3 votes on you, not 4. Meaning, that last VC is incorrect.

Now, see, you could have said 'I didn't realize it was E-1', which isn't much of a defense given that the first vote happened at 508 and you voted at 535 (and, yes, Skitter30 voted earlier, but she revoted so all four votes were within 30 posts). I mean, I would find it a bad defense, but you could have done it. You have chosen to go with this defense, that you were reading an incorrect votecount. The one in 536 which was posted nine minutes

after

you posted your vote. I see. So, you are either lying or time is non-linear for you.

Also, my vote being #3 or #4 is not the same as quickhammering you. Do you understand the distinction?

I understand the distinction between a quickhammer and an E-1 vote. Do you understand the distinction between an E-1 and an E-2 vote, or more importantly; the distinction between someone who realizes that its E-1 and someone who doesn't? It's a little irresponsible play on your part; and your defense isn't even 'I didn't think it was important to mention that it was E-1' which means you

agree

with me as far as that's concerned.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

intent, please claim, etc

Yeah, fine, this was inevitable I suppose. I was hoping to push this off a bit.
Claim: Town PR, unspecified X-power type.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

X-power means x-shot?

Yes.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Chicago are you able to move your vote onto Meuh?

Certainly a possibly iniviting prospect, but I will choose to keep my vote where it is at this time.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

In that case IF Meuh flips Scum a subsequent Chicago lim would be something to look into.

Uh-huh. And if I voted for Meuh and Meuh flipped scum then I was bussing my fellow scum, right?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

CT why do you want to flip T3 above everyone else?

I don't specifically want to flip T3 above everyone else. T3 is someone I currently find scummy enough to flip. I don't find Meuh scummy enough to flip today and she hasn't had enough interaction to make it worthwhile figuring out if she's scum or not currently.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

ok but u understand we r really close to end of day so thats literally what we're doing right? we r picking one person to flip and you're voting for T3 which means you think he should be flipped instead of anyone else - so why is that?

Your post count indicates to me that you should know better than to phrase a question like this. No, I am not picking 'the one person to flip instead of anyone else', I am picking the one person I am willing to compromise on to flip above the rest of my scumreads because I think they have the strongest chance to be limmed. That's kind of how a democracy works.
Also, to forestall your inevitable follow up question, yes, the likelihood of T3 being eliminated has dropped drastically since I voted, but it was good when I first did it and I simply haven't removed it because I have no one currently compelling enough to switch my vote

to

.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

If t3 isnt a viable wagon anymore than this is just functionally abstaining

Abstaining is quite functional in the absence of good options. Besides, it's not actually like we're going to end the day without an elimination. We still have a good 29 hours to lim someone.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

If we get to two hours left and you need my vote to lim Meuh, then that's a different story.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

If Meuh flips Scum, Chicago must be limmed next.

And, again, if I voted, you'd say I was scum for bussing. Are you going to respond to anything I say to you or just keep this up? Couldn't help but notice that for all the flack I'm getting for sticking my vote on someone who isn't in danger of being limmed right now, so are you.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Nobody is deaded?

Chicago u need to claim your action

VOTE: pooky

Ah, yes, so I'm the reason no one is dead. A little thing called

2-Shot Bulletproof

. It kinds of seems unfair to the scumteam to be honest; but it's just a defensive role, so I'm going to have to rely on the offensive PRos for the rest.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

@Chicago are you told whether your shots have been decreased or nah?

Nope. Make of it what you will.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

The possibility has been raised that Random Nurse is a Mafia Roleblocker instead of Town Jailkeeper, right?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

T3?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

VOTE: Chicago

I think Chicago is the optimal lim today. I claimed Jailkeeper because I don't believe his Bulletproof claim; I don't see BP and JK in the same setup but I'm not 100% on that. If you lim me you lose your JK early, but chances are extremely high I'll be NK'd tonight anyways. There is a chance Scum opts to leave me alive Night 2 to set me up for a mis-lim Day 3.

So ... you feel the 'optimal' lim is to eliminate the guy who can't be NK'd right now.

I do see your point about the odds of BP and JK in the same set-up, I was wondering about that when I got my role PM. That, and your foreshadowing of being 'left alive' by the scum for a 'Day 3 mis-lim' is just icing on the cake. It's becoming increasingly likely to me that you are, in fact, a mafia aesthetic (hence the town odd-checker); and likely there's a hidden town pr right now with information gathering powers (i.e. cop or something) that has claimed VT (or at least that's my belief).

VOTE: Random Nurse

[ChicagoTypewriter]

You say that, but it's too convenient knowing that I jailed Medeia Night 1.

If I were Scum I'd have no reason to counter-claim in response to your Bulletproof claim. It'd be so much easier to just pretend to be a VT.

I'd agree with you

if

you posted before Medeia. But you didn't. In 732, Medeia claims she targeted you with the checker action which failed. This required an explanation - and if no town jailkeeper would step forward then either Medeia was roleblocked or you're a scum aesthetic; and apparently in a game with a checker; a scum aesthetic is quite likely.

In 758, you claimed Jailkeeper. You did not claim jailkeeper to counter-claim my bulletproof; you are claiming it to couter-claim Medeia's action.

If you were Town you would know that a tactic of Scum's is to leave alive a PR that is suspecting it would be NK'd, in order to dump suspicion on that target and have the rest of Town kill that PR for Scum instead.

Yes, WIFOM; I am familiar with the concept. I'm not sure what you gain by suggesting that I would never think of such things were I a scum player and such high-level scum play is only available to the privileged townies. But your theory is fundamentally flawed, for if you were Town, perhaps you would realize that the mafia can kill more than just the player who declared themselves unspecified PR.
You would have us believe right now that the scum targeted Medeia, who you just so happened to be checker and checked you; or perchance that Medeia is the scum. Who decided the best strategy upon opening Day 2 with would be to lie about being checker and that their checked action upon you was a failure.

You could be Scum, but I'm also concerned that it could be Medeia if she were the one performing the Night 1 NK.

Right, this theory, basically. So, you are suggesting that Medeia and I are a scumpair; and we have embarked on the brilliant strategy of both claiming PRs. Which, remember, we did first - Medeia and I claimed PRs before you did.
...Why? What would we gain from this? There are so many ways that a scum!pair claiming PRs right at the start of Day 2 could go wrong and so few ways it could go right. It's just a terrible theory.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Okay, so I think I haven't been keeping up - I know there's a thought that the town JK should have JK'd me last night which would be pretty good play; but there are equally valid play options, right?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

I personally feel a Chicago lim today would help sort out the mystery of these various claims, but if not today, then when? Day 3? Do I need to get NK'd before Town lims CT?

How about you respond to 892 and explain how you aren't the scummiest roleclaim right now before we lim CT?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Did you claim Checker before or after I claimed Jailkeeper?

.......................................................................

.......................................................................

before

hes really leaning into this play dumb thing huh

Do you think a Mafia Checker is possible?

Of what great use to scum would a checker be?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

So your theory is the scum have a checker "just cause"?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Okay, so I think I haven't been keeping up - I know there's a thought that the town JK should have JK'd me last night which would be pretty good play; but there are equally valid play options, right?

scum jk would be on you
town jk would be on anyone that isn't you

Or town jk would be on me if they believed my PR claim and thought the scum would target me...

[ChicagoTypewriter]

whereas this guy just has like no desire to solve the game

I solved it, check 892. Lim Random Nurse today; see where the cards fall tommorow.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Let's lim Chicago to sort that out. I don't buy the Bulletproof claim especially when I jailed Medeia.

Once again, I am not the scummiest roleclaim here. You are. You want to go down this path? We can go down this path - and lim you.

Compromise: In the interest of actually limming people; how about we shift back to T3 (like people were amenable to Day 1) and Random Nurse claims (and lies) about JK'ing me. I will vote T3 today as well as Random Nurse, provided we get a wagon for it.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

i have no idea what the VC is but I do want other people to like talk if there r objections to this plan

I think RN is at E-1

[ChicagoTypewriter]

probably just chicago + t3

Right, so I'm barely here, but I need to point out the egregious chain of logic here - I spent all of Day 1 trying to lim T3. Why would I do that if we were scum pair?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

I'm not getting replaced, I just have nothing to say today if we're going to go to sleep without lim.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Interesting final five. I get why I'm here, because I'm bulletproof. T3, if town, almost got limmed, so the mafia would want to keep them in. But why are the other three here?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

@medeia - you claim to have a pr, why do you think you're alive right now?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

like if the team is T3/CT then I voted T3 b4 u did so

There are 20 possible scum teams right now, and T3/CT; given my Day 1 behavior, is near the bottom of that list in terms of likelihood. But, yes, sure, let us pursue

that

line of reasoning.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Sorry, added a modifier. 10 teams.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

ok so who do you think it is from your perspective?

Not sure. I was waiting to see who died before I started my analysis to cut down on it.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

yeah i think the only real scumteam here is skitter/chicago. i'm pretty sure chicago is town and chicago/pooky makes no sense as a scumteam. i don't think scum!chicago ever has the interaction in 616 with scum!pooky. plus pooky started the whole meta case on chicago.

Yeah, I'm just going to echo skitter30 here.

What?

So ... skitter30 and I are scum, but you're pretty sure I'm town. Do you mean to say that you're pretty sure I'm scum?

[ChicagoTypewriter]

Okay, I'm going to have to invoke 'tenth man' here - no one seems to be considering medeia for scum, so let me do a thought experiment on the subject:

What if medeia were scum?

Medeia's D2 behavior is near perfect scum play in a game like this (with a single assumption). Because PRs aren't known in this setup, scum can claim PR with validation and not have to worry. Obviously, doing this in a vacuum isn't the best idea, a cast full of PRs makes it obvious that someone is lying. So let us cycle back to the D2 argument with Random Nurse - because as it turns out, Random Nurse was

not

lying.

So, N1, medeia got jailkept by RN, and in turn, she targeted RN with her odd-turn checker action and got no result. As least, so she claims. However, there's no backing on medeia's claim of odd-turn checker (and I say that fully cognizant of the fact that there's no proof of my 2-Shot Bulletproof aside from no nightkill Day 1). However, what if medeia were not, say, town, but was in fact scum - most likely a goon; as a matter of fact. RN jailkept her, so N1, medeia is staring at a failed scum action, possibly a failed NK (and if memory serves, at this stage, I haven't yet claimed bulletproof).

However, medeia decides to strike while the iron is hot - instead of allowing RN to make the accusation, medeia claims 'odd-turn checker' and that she had a failed check action against ... RN? Why single RN out? Well, there are two possibilities, either a) medeia got lucky or b) the scum team either soft-read RN as a PR or had a night action which let them know about it.

This explains the claim of 'odd-turn checker', because it is a lesser version of a niche power, so it existing it a game with, say, two other PRs wouldn't make the players bat an eye - it's one of the better PRs to claim in this kind of a situation. Though I suppose this might be my inexperience, I don't know how 'odd-turn checker' scales in power or how roughly useful it is in games.

Conclusion

: Possible, but not overly likely.

[ChicagoTypewriter]

So ... like I went after T3 pretty hard on Day 1 and Day 2; Day 3 I tried to look at medeia, but everyone ignored me and there was too many posts for me to run analysis on, so I kind of ignored the game for a while.

Was there something better for me to do here?