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Hello friend! I'm excited to meet again soon, if only for a short time.
It is always really nice to see you, for however long you can manage.
We had these grand plans of playing more online and I don't think that worked (maybe with some others?) , maybe we should still try that by playing warm up boardgames before the meet?
As for the game, I don't think andantes excitement is alignment indicative. It seems pretty common. Outside that, I would lean town here for now on the content of her posts, not the tone.
Lisa asked whether I played with Dat and I played one mini last year where he was scum (Andante was in it as well). Of the others, if I played with you it's been ages ago, I don't remember how you play.
Wavelength has got a point about Aureal, that's the A I should have gone for.
vote: Aureal
What content of Andante's are you townleaning her for and why?
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Post #289 (isolation #28) » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:27 am
Postby Aristeia »
ali my read on your mech is that i dont think you are likely to fake it as scum and i dont think dats is likely to argue with it as scum. i also am not great at mech.
In post 165, Alisae wrote:
That does sound like it would make Herta quite readable. Okay I like this more than your arguments for Aureal actually being a wolf. I read your arguments and I just think "Myko would probably be making this arguments if he was a wolf."
I'd be silly to put a townie looking person at E-1. That makes no sense at all.
You put scum there. I'm voting for the person with which limited information I have now I think is likely a baddie. I'd very much like everybody to do the same, but you won't oblige.
In post 165, Alisae wrote:
I've never encountered someone saying "I don't want to tell wolves who obvtown is" why are you saying that?
Must be an old argument then. Though I kind of doubt it's gone out of meta? People always held their townreads a bit closer to their chest, might as well see if scum kill some reads you aren't too certain about. By the time night comes around, I don't know where my read stands. If I explain where it comes from, you might have a guess where it sits. I don't think her wagon has all that much substance, tbh. It feels like some people parking their vote there. Datisi and Klick are wait and see people like you. They just felt they had to put out a vote. Anyway, I'm hardly in a rush to get to Andante's aid on an early game read.
In post 165, Alisae wrote:
I think this is fine because if they're a villager they see you and they are probably thinking that you don't care to understand them or see eye to eye. reading it more now it's probs likely to come from either alignment.
What you describe is what it would be coming from town. As luck would have it, we have the game Aureal talked about where she got quickhammered day one, where there is someone semi aggressively pushing her (furtiveglance) in micro 1068. And certain enough, she disagrees, but key: is rather annoyed with the push and the bandwagon. It gets cut short by the quickhammer. It's just talking though about all the reasons why they are wrong (and stupid, crazy), but no vote back.
It's completely different from here where she goes into a vote on me without talking about me at all till the vote, then coming up with logical reasons from the posts where I accuse her without actually calling out why I'm stupid to even think those reasons could apply to her here. She's not calling out the evidence, but calls out that I don't talk about andante when asked and instead talk about her.
(I didn't look up the meta till during today, did have a look to see if my way of treating the OMGUS post actually fit the person. People sometimes react differently from how you expect, but the response from 1068 is how I'd expect a town to suspect the people that are pushing them. It's not like this game. She's not prone to OMGUS anyway, tends to have a pretty open view on the game where she's not at all dependent on people interacting with her personally to gather her reads.)
I don't understand why you think Aureal will play one way, get quickhammered and yeeted as town. and then play the exact same way under pressure again.
In post 214, Klick wrote:
Have I not been previously clear about my Aureal townread? Genuine question, because both yourself and Andante seem to not be considering it in the posts you're making. I don't want Aureal at E-1 because I have a fairly solid townread on Aureal, and I feel like that should be obvious.
Not really. From the top of my head there's two posts, one a bit earlier where you explain for Aureal that their vote was a continuation of the RVS and not really that serious (and how you are supposed to know their motives for them is a bit dubious), and another post where you state that she is following her stated plan for how she always plays games. Which is kind of what I have an issue with with Aureal in the first place. It feels like you see the same thing, except you think it's perfectly reasonable to present your gameplan, then execute said gameplan without actually taking into account what's happening in the game. So unless I missed some post, I don't think you've made a hard statement like "I will never vote Aureal and this is why", it's not that clear to me where the read is coming from and it feels a bit reactive. I'm pushing hard, so it's not weird some people are digging their heels in.
On that note, it's a bit silly at this point to call this wagon easy, I think you had before. We have two of the people actually presenting arguments why someone is scum on the Aureal wagon and it's impossible to get another vote at there apparently. You aren't the only one waiting and seeing. This game is going to have a deadline elimination unless a couple of you get yourself into gear.
Klick cont. wrote:I guess if I dive a bit deeper into that, I want to not disturb it, because I feel that often when I try to influence the discourse with specific intentions, I fail to get anything that significantly influences my read on the game. I find much more success getting an accurate read from watching a game develop naturally without large influence from me. So I want to encourage a gamestate that feels naturally developed to me so that I can solve it properly.
Outside of that, there are a few things that I don't want. I don't want Aureal eliminated. I don't want Wavelength eliminated. I don't want you eliminated, I think.
I'm not surprised, but this is why I'm not so convinced about your Aureal defense. You play for things you don't want. You don't want to upset the balance of the town, so the moment E-1 appears you try to get it back in balance. It's too early. That was influence, as is the chainsaw on Lisa that you try to get Datisi on board for (lets frame that negatively for the moment). Unless it's the unvote that bothers you?
If I had to make a case on you now, you are scum because you want a normal game where you can settle. You know Aureal is not your buddy and we are being a bit mean and you are a nice guy. It's easy to understand where she's coming from and we are piling it on there. The moment a weaker voice jumps on in a bit of a hesitant way, that's the moment to get off the stalling Andante wagon and see whether you can look proactive about Lisa. He'd been waffling all day, but this was the moment to shine, it flows naturally from your defense of Aureal too. Datisi isn't your partner but it's nice to buddy up to him, I suspect he tends to be a voice of reason in towns? (in the previous game he was a bit of a lurkerscum, so not certain).
Your partner... hmm. Not sure yet.
i dont really understand this post
why do you say klick scum does this for aureal town e-1?
Post
Post #394 (isolation #41) » Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:32 pm
Postby Aristeia »
In post 387, Wavelength wrote:
I was considering the possibility of Aristeia scum, because they seem to be navigating the day in an way that feels like it is trying to be unintrusive / trying to be amicable, I did not like their push onto Myko, and trying to pivot the day onto the lowest content poster at this stage of the game seemed weird too.
But now that I am thinking more of Herta as scum, that softened that read, because obviously would not pivot onto their partner at that stage in the game either.
So I am back once again to just Aureal and Herta as scum reads, and with those both being the two leading wagons, and perfectly fine with either option as the day 1 elim, I am just kind of... here now
My pronouns are she/her. I think herta is mafia. i could be wrong.
In post 445, Gimli wrote:
I fail to see how herta not playing at all, not making a single read, dropping the game and replacing out is scummy.
Yes, it has been a bad wagon, who's the worst vote on there?
I have yet to investigate it. what I read from both aristeia and datisi are things I dislike. I liked your early push on herta back on page 5? calling her single post a 'lurkerscum post' that you can't even pursue for reasons.
Post
Post #457 (isolation #48) » Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:57 am
Postby Aristeia »
I think it is fairly obvious there are much easier paths for me to take this game than pushing for herta's elimination myself.
for example, aureal's wagon which myko pushed to e-1 without my vote or andante's wagon or myko's wagon.
even sheeping alisae and voting datisi would be easier than pushing herta.
being a mafia is mostly a game of managing perception, i can just yeet any of the above without getting my hands dirty and keeping a lurker slot like herta as a potential mislim later down the line. i do not really need to push him here on d1 and draw attention to myself.
In post 452, Gimli wrote:
@myko remember you had a problem with aureal's 'going with the motions' post?
what do you think of aristeia this game? do you think 'going with the motion' is a fair assessment of her game so far?
I think it's different. Aristeia is reading the game and making choices. Choosing to sheep Datisi, in a way choosing to vote Andante, choosing to vote an inactive player. These are the easiest choices to make in most cases and bad imo. I think the Datisi one could be premeditated. Come into the game and wonder how you are going to play it as scum, you might think you are just going to play off your relation with Datisi and let it flow from there. I could see that.
I still have the whole "he's not posting and that's the reaction" in my head. I.. just don't understand what kind of mind that comes from. And what alignement that mind would have to have. I think she's played bad, I'm not sure she's scum. Could very well be, it was in my top two worst votes on that wagon, yes.
there are only two votes on gimlis wagon so i am not sure why he is "thinking" here
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Post #460 (isolation #50) » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:02 am
Postby Aristeia »
"what kind of mind thinks that way"
i mean it is pretty simple what I said about herta. i think he has a tendency to not post when he is scum and i think if he was town he would not have kept his vote on his rvs as it got run up. i think he is usually more interested in the game when he is town and interacts with people more.
if i am wrong and he just happened to decide this game to not play as a townie then it just happens that this was a game he chose not to play.
i think my thoughts are fairly simple and easy to understand. i dont think mykonian has any trouble understanding them.
Post
Post #462 (isolation #52) » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:05 am
Postby Aristeia »
my read is that datisi is a townie who is exasperated with alisae and cant make up his mind whether she is scum shitpushing him or townie being unreasonable.
In post 83, Alisae wrote:
Is there a reason why I would want to put it in hammer range right now? I don't think I need to use my vote to add to the pressure at the moment.
Because if you don't pressure someone what are you doing. And herta is there as a RVS, they'll get cold feet (or they don't) and it'll be interesting to see what they do. And if someone quickhammers, that'd be very convenient too, wouldn't it. Tomorrow would be easy.
So yes, I don't see why you'd wait. Risk/reward is on your side.
See, now look what you've done Herta gets to make a lurkerscum post and doesn't have to respond to the fact that he's on a E-1 wagon. And I don't even get to call him out for it!
@ari this is the push myko is making that I'm referring to
pedit: IDRC what you push, I care about how you're pushing things, I care that you're not being towny this gameday and your stances are too safe.
what's your read on datisi?
that is not a push
a push is a vote and getting people to vote someone
making a casual comment about how someone is lurking without pressuring them in anyway is not a push
i mean it is pretty simple what I said about herta. i think he has a tendency to not post when he is scum and i think if he was town he would not have kept his vote on his rvs as it got run up. i think he is usually more interested in the game when he is town and interacts with people more.
if i am wrong and he just happened to decide this game to not play as a townie then it just happens that this was a game he chose not to play.
i think my thoughts are fairly simple and easy to understand. i dont think mykonian has any trouble understanding them.
okay to the first paragraph.
to the second one: I don't think herta 'decided' not to play. I think herta has a RL thing that's keeping them from playing, as they literally said so in their three post ISO:
In post 111, Herta wrote:
I found myself busy. I'll try to catch up this evening.
Gambler's fallacy says andante is town.
In post 363, Herta wrote:
I"m not informed as to whatever the informed thing is. But I have to read to see.
I'm having a procedure done this week so will get into this when I can.
vla through 26 Feb
dropping this game wasn't AI. are you scumreading their content?
as to caring what you push: you're pushing the game's low hanging fruit that I know is a townie. there are many reasons why you'd do that as scum, one of them is that it's much more convenient to push someone who won't push back. so I don't wanna read into the push itself either way. I care about why you're doing it. I see herta's content and see no evidence of scumminess, and for now I do not buy that you thought otherwise.
either way I expect you to update your read on my slot through my own posting and not your herta meta read so let's see how this develops.
your own posting is to omgus at me and not really develop anywhere else
it looks antispewy to me because I am town.
Note: fixed formatting inside quote
Last edited by biancospino on Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #484 (isolation #59) » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:44 am
Postby Aristeia »
In post 475, Gimli wrote:
@ari: I posted read progressions in every slot and I just replaced in. you said my play was to OMGUS you and avoid that, which was the first thing I did. I could be scum, sure, but I'm working the game and I'm not antispewy. I can't think you seriously thought that now.
your only meaningful push is to shove back at your main shover[me] and the only other person voting you.
you more or less townread everyone else
so if i flip you and you flip scum, it looks like the person who was shoving you[me] is not aligned with you. which was pretty obvious. that is the definition of anti-spew
You are always gonna be my love