Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Vecna]

The game I based that post on finished in november. And the three links you just posted actually show the same pattern to me. Your play this game -is- different in tone from the last link where you claim to be cocky.

Not saying just yet that it nails you to the wall as scum, but ill be keeping my eye on you again.

The game you based that post on was a newbie where I was thinking about IC'ing. And those three games absolutely do not show the same pattern to that newbie Ali linked. Did you even read my ISO in those games? Because I'm pretty sure based on that response that you didn't. Especially considering the last game shouldn't be like the others because I was playing like someone else, and people in the game even commented on that.

So no, likeable/goofy and friendly like you're describing is not my usual town play. My usual town play varies depending on how I feel like approaching the game.

The initial post contained two games, also a recent one. And i did read throigh your iso in several games. The fact your fighting me on this is maybe not that odd if it doesnt match the way you view your own play, but im noting it and ill keep it in mind - and like i said ill remain suspicious from now on and youre under my hourglass

[Vecna]

Then let's sync up.
Talk with me about Vecna and Yuri.
And why do you read them the way you do?

I've talked about Vecna.
He pushed Titus to leave the game when she was one of his hard defenders (like if you'll remember she threatened me with a policy lynch when I first pushed him). It's something that he stood to gain very little from, because the potential town cred from that has to be pointed out by someone else for him to get anything out of it for one, and he got rid of his strongest supporter to be left with someone in the slot that he knew was scumreading him for another. Then you have the fact that the infighting in the hydra was clogging up the game and making for an environment where people really didn't want to be around/read so he could have more easily manipulated the lynches to where he wanted as scum because of it.
Like, there are points for doubt but they're not points I'm going to bring up in the main thread unless I decide it outweighs the fact that he would have to be shooting himself in the foot with how he tried to fix the hydra dissonance in your slot. It's not a smart move for scum at all.

Yuri is a bit of wagonomics and a bit of experience with the main. I'm not going to out who it is but the weird defending thing and such is not unusual given who it is. The wagonomics I need to double check on though because I think I misremembered it. D1 felt like a consensus wagon with no real counter though, and when the counter DID come about we know it was mainly ABR that pushed it yeah? Which means it wasn't a scum motivated counter. I do need to double check that but it's where I'm at with my thoughts currently.

um...did I do ok with the attempt btw or not really?

Im not sure i completely buy this reason to TR me either. I pushed on the DEO to choose between death/replace out/become a unified front. I had no idea at this point what the outcome would be. Framing it as me willingly getting rid of titus is very much in my favor, but not an accurate portrayal of events.

Im surprised noone actually has brought this up before. At any rate, it had to be done for the good of town and i was in a position to do so.

[Vecna]

Senator Mathblade, We are perplexed. We have made Our case for the loyalty of Senator Nero many times in Our own words. In short, We are citing Our own personal experience with the Senator, including several recent debates with him, as evidence of his loyalty.

Senator nancy, We have decided to respect your position against Us, and have resolved to vindicate Ourselves in your eyes through deeds rather than trite and petty words. We look forward to welcoming you back into the fold.

Spoiler: Translation

Nero is Town by meta. I've played with him off and on for six years, from one of my very first non-Newbie games on, and this isn't his scumgame. I just saw that recently in NY199 where we were scum together. He tends to be lurky and flippant as scum, and will usually try to break up any Townblocs or productive discussion. Here he has been vocal and aggressive, which is his Towngame. Granted, that has tailed off a bit, but he's settled into the stubborn attitude I generally see from Town NC. I'm not claiming to have a deep soulread on him, but my gut says that this is Town!Nero, same as it says this is Town!Creature.

Talk about what you recognize from town nero in his play here. I want details because ive tried to do the same but i just cannot see how you can make this read so easily

[Vecna]

i want sodam to get in there and explain me theirs view on the game atm

Good luck with that, everyone else has tried to get this to happen to no avail

[Vecna]

Gracious patrician Gin, it gladdens Our Imperial Heart to see you surmount the electoral contest to replace the retiring Senator Elbirn! It pleases Us greatly to now bestow upon you the title of Roman Senator. We bid thee courage in thy efforts to catch up, and caution against undue haste in braving the archives of the Senate proceedings.

I know this will be hard within the confines of your gimmick, but im gonna once again request you to do an up to date CASE with deep reasoning as to why you continue to scumread me even though my recent play. I wont accept any broad terms throwing around and i want something that i can read into whether your reasoning is at least genuine.

Failing this, you will most likely get lynched today. I dont want to lynch you just because youre making your slot unreadable - ill leave that to scrubs like gerry, but im expecting much much better from you.

[Vecna]

Also even if Math is scum they shouldn't be lynched, they should get vigged btw.

I mean if they are scum Stonehenge they aren't going to use the investigation power. So it doesn't really matter. Traditionally speaking you lynch scum 9/10 times b/c you don't always have a vig. Like if we DO get another vig then Math would still be a quality shot and even if Math is scum there are still 4 other scum to lynch but my main point is that Math should die and I don't care how.

Do you have any way to read people off tone

I DO!

Im actually starting to agree. If we have a town vig here he should shoot math. Don't keep us in the dark thinking that scum might have that vig and we have a day less. Get rid of a slot causing a lot of questions, that has two upsides on death.

[Vecna]

Who's the one saying someone's a PR that requires they need to be shot and then says they need rope?

From your perspective it doesn't make sense for you to want to lynch them, it would make sense for you to want them vigged.

reading skillz 1/10.

I'm saying they had a PR that requires they be shot and them

NOT

wanting to be shot makes them scum. Pray tell how we'd vig Math without a vig? (b/c scum likely got the vig b/c why wouldn't they shoot Math last night?)

I'll have you know I passed 3rd grade reading with a solid C, thank you very much.


Okay...so scum picked a role that painted a giant ass "X marks the spot" for what reason?

Interesting jump in tone here all of a sudden. From a very characteristic entry to an agitated tone under attack.

Also the defence regarding the replace out message.

Elbrin was already a potential scum, and these signs help to reinforce that feeling.

Slot moving down a step on my ladder

[Vecna]

@Nero, if Math needs to be shot, let them get shot >_>

If the PR works only by being shot, you literally negate the PR by lynching them

ok this is town

What?! Explain this read, and why that post made you conckude that. Until you do, more scum suspicion for you.

[Vecna]

@Nero, if Math needs to be shot, let them get shot >_>

If the PR works only by being shot, you literally negate the PR by lynching them

ok this is town

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what a scumpartner interaction looks like.

Aslan, I'm sorry, but Notice is scum. I have a scumtell on them that involves them not doing a particular behavior that they

always and only

do as Town.

They are not doing it this game.

Caesar is coasting scum. What first keyed me on Caesar being scum was his meta defense of Nero, where he said that Nero was lurky as scum. Maybe in his experience that has actually been the case, and I have caught scum for the wrong reasons, but Nero's recent scumgames clearly do not involve lurking whatsoever. This might seem insignificant, but let me remind you that Pine does not bus. Why would he insist on defending Nero when he hasn't defended any other slot in that way? Because Nero is scum. Caesar looks awful on VCA. Caesar's stances are stale. He hasn't reacted to anything that has happened today. He's stopped evaluating the game. There's no fire to his push, no conviction in his reads.

Nero is scum. His ISO is palpably scummy. What convinced me that Nero is scum? He has a violent temper and yet when I accused him of being scum because of an awful argument he barely even blinked an eye. The way that he's been trying to replicate the same type of behavior that has been getting him read favorably. Nero doesn't tunnel on Math like this. He doesn't concoct the kind of bad theory about Math contradicting themselves. He hunts scum with a passion that in this game is replaced by empty aggression.

Gin is scum. See the interaction above. See mastina speaking to him in game thread. Would mastina break the hydra boundary merely to say hi to Gin? No. It's WIFOM. Designed to distance Notice and Gin. The timing of Gin's replacement is too perfect. He replaces in less than an hour after Elbirn's replace out post, a carefully written and well thought-out piece. Gin is Pine's scum protege. This is not a coincidence.

PeregrineV is scum. This kind of WIFOM is something that Pine thrives on. It's something he would be comfortable doing in a game where Town was in a state of disarray and none of his scumteam were even getting pushed. His tunnel on Math is blatantly scummy. There is no other reason for PV to have been janned than that he is scum.

CK, join me on Caesar. Whatever you're thinking about the gamestate right now, Caesar is not Town. Math and Sondam are the counterwagons scum are trying to push right now. If I'm right, we can win this game here and now.

Was already wondering if i was the only one that noticed....

[Vecna]

@Nero, if Math needs to be shot, let them get shot >_>

If the PR works only by being shot, you literally negate the PR by lynching them

ok this is town

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what a scumpartner interaction looks like.

Aslan, I'm sorry, but Notice is scum. I have a scumtell on them that involves them not doing a particular behavior that they

always and only

do as Town.

They are not doing it this game.

Caesar is coasting scum. What first keyed me on Caesar being scum was his meta defense of Nero, where he said that Nero was lurky as scum. Maybe in his experience that has actually been the case, and I have caught scum for the wrong reasons, but Nero's recent scumgames clearly do not involve lurking whatsoever. This might seem insignificant, but let me remind you that Pine does not bus. Why would he insist on defending Nero when he hasn't defended any other slot in that way? Because Nero is scum. Caesar looks awful on VCA. Caesar's stances are stale. He hasn't reacted to anything that has happened today. He's stopped evaluating the game. There's no fire to his push, no conviction in his reads.

Nero is scum. His ISO is palpably scummy. What convinced me that Nero is scum? He has a violent temper and yet when I accused him of being scum because of an awful argument he barely even blinked an eye. The way that he's been trying to replicate the same type of behavior that has been getting him read favorably. Nero doesn't tunnel on Math like this. He doesn't concoct the kind of bad theory about Math contradicting themselves. He hunts scum with a passion that in this game is replaced by empty aggression.

Gin is scum. See the interaction above. See mastina speaking to him in game thread. Would mastina break the hydra boundary merely to say hi to Gin? No. It's WIFOM. Designed to distance Notice and Gin. The timing of Gin's replacement is too perfect. He replaces in less than an hour after Elbirn's replace out post, a carefully written and well thought-out piece. Gin is Pine's scum protege. This is not a coincidence.

PeregrineV is scum. This kind of WIFOM is something that Pine thrives on. It's something he would be comfortable doing in a game where Town was in a state of disarray and none of his scumteam were even getting pushed. His tunnel on Math is blatantly scummy. There is no other reason for PV to have been janned than that he is scum.

CK, join me on Caesar. Whatever you're thinking about the gamestate right now, Caesar is not Town. Math and Sondam are the counterwagons scum are trying to push right now. If I'm right, we can win this game here and now.

Also if you're literally gonna copy all statements i made wrt the caesar / nero interaction, at least give me the courtesy to make me a hard townread. I think i deserve as much by now

[Vecna]

Senator nancy, We have completed Our review of Senator davesaz. We find very little remarkable about his participation in this convening of the Senate, which is itself remarkable. This gives us reason to immediately suspect his intentions, as We find an extreme dearth of original thought or effort at solving the dilemma before Us. Davesaz's records are rife with small speeches with little of worth, meaningless questions, and weak endorsements of others' positions. We find it likely that he is trying to blend into the crowd behind the din of louder representatives.

Davesaz knows better as scum. I have been a part of his scum play in Gistou. This to me is his town play. Because reasons.

Im just wondering if he reduced his activity because me abd luv were scumreading him for it...

[Vecna]

Noble Senators, I hear your dissatisfaction and turmoil, and request quarter. A brief recess while tempers cool, and for Us to address these new and spurious charges in full light of day.

Spoiler: Translation

Ugh, there's a bunch I want to say, but it's 4AM and I have a six-hour training in the morning. I'm quite confident that I can eviscerate the wagon on me, as I've actually examined the cases against me and the only one with any original thought or attempt at gamesolving is nancy, maybe Math. The rest is largely thinly-veiled OMGUS and "lol why not this wagon seems fun." Looking at you, CK. My training ends around 3PM EST tomorrow, but I might be able to get out early considering it's a basic first aid/CPR class I need to qualify as a trainer and I'm a professional EMT. Don't lynch me til then and I'll finish this omnibus case on LUV and finish re-evaluating Vecna.

And stop hating on Caesar, he's really fun

Lol all the points that nancy just brought up were brought up by me waaay waaay before.

Sorry but its just a plain case of copyright infringement and for some reason you still give nancy all the credit.

[Vecna]

hm okay but this isnt my read VOTE: ceasar

VOTE: cloudkicker

Oh look, he's as scummy as his predecessor.
This vote is not coming off.

More posting that goes against everything that i feel.

Cloud has actually managed to move his slot to near townread status for me

[Vecna]

Talk about what you recognize from town nero in his play here. I want details because ive tried to do the same but i just cannot see how you can make this read so easily

Is there a post somewhere where you actully explain whats scummy b/c all I remember is "you're playling like Death Note" and "you're hard to meta!" or something like that.

I feel like ive answered this before? I feel your hard to read, not particularly that youre scummy.

Im not sure yet whether your math pusb is based on pure motives, abd i can see it coming from both allignments.

I dont think the pine read affects you as much as it affects my read of caesar.

The slot has a lot to explain and is running out of time to do so.

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: caesar

Having said that, the reread of the last 10-15 pages was great for my reads and im starting to get the feeling more and more that im gettjng a grasp of this game.

I still wanna hear what caesar has to say. This unvote is not me abandoning the wagon, but making sure he gets to speak up. Prediction: his scumread on me is gonna be gone.

[Vecna]

Deadlock Town: vecna, nancy, LUV

Most likely town: leonshade, Cloudkicker, creature

Needs sorting; Nero cain, brian skies (this one is coming closer to town now), davesaz, Alisae, yuri

Needs bullit: mathblade

Probable scumlords: maxous, sondam, notice

Scumlords: GnT, Caesar

[Vecna]

Nancy id like to discuss wonder picks between the two of us. I think both of us should submit for the scum wonders today. And with that i mean, the roleblock, night action protection, and the investigation manipulator.

I feel were the most likely kills (barring a docsave) so we should make sure we take low townvalue wonders today that are great to deny to scum. The roleblock abd investigative block should not be used ofcourse if we aquire them.

This way we force scum to choose between getting rid of the gamesolvers in this game, and to hunt for the investigative wonders.

Thoughts?

[Vecna]

I think i'll submit for the investigation manipulator myself so im completely convinced scum cant mess with our investigations.

[Vecna]

Goodluck trying to get me lynched now scum

[Vecna]

I'm literally not scum reading him for anything outside of the game.

I'm not going to talk to scum Ali so don't bring up Hogwarts when the context is completely different.

Well LUV is town. :/

Damn I hate being unable to read you.
But so is Ali.

Hurrah. Only took 8600 posts

[Vecna]

i havent read u lol

DEO slot is scum and Vecna is scum. i just wanna get them lynched

~Gerry

Read my last post addressing you and stop being a damn detriment you clown.

Maria post more. Im not gonna have your slot slide by purely on gerry's gimmick so ill sort you based on your posts.

Get active

[Vecna]

Then let's sync up.
Talk with me about Vecna and Yuri.
And why do you read them the way you do?

I've talked about Vecna.
He pushed Titus to leave the game when she was one of his hard defenders (like if you'll remember she threatened me with a policy lynch when I first pushed him). It's something that he stood to gain very little from, because the potential town cred from that has to be pointed out by someone else for him to get anything out of it for one, and he got rid of his strongest supporter to be left with someone in the slot that he knew was scumreading him for another. Then you have the fact that the infighting in the hydra was clogging up the game and making for an environment where people really didn't want to be around/read so he could have more easily manipulated the lynches to where he wanted as scum because of it.
Like, there are points for doubt but they're not points I'm going to bring up in the main thread unless I decide it outweighs the fact that he would have to be shooting himself in the foot with how he tried to fix the hydra dissonance in your slot. It's not a smart move for scum at all.

Yuri is a bit of wagonomics and a bit of experience with the main. I'm not going to out who it is but the weird defending thing and such is not unusual given who it is. The wagonomics I need to double check on though because I think I misremembered it. D1 felt like a consensus wagon with no real counter though, and when the counter DID come about we know it was mainly ABR that pushed it yeah? Which means it wasn't a scum motivated counter. I do need to double check that but it's where I'm at with my thoughts currently.

um...did I do ok with the attempt btw or not really?

Im not sure i completely buy this reason to TR me either. I pushed on the DEO to choose between death/replace out/become a unified front. I had no idea at this point what the outcome would be. Framing it as me willingly getting rid of titus is very much in my favor, but not an accurate portrayal of events.

Im surprised noone actually has brought this up before. At any rate, it had to be done for the good of town and i was in a position to do so.

Let's explore those options then:
Death - Requires Titus and MathBlade to both live in a dysfunctional hydra for the rest of the day phase, continuing to fight and bloat the thread and potentially cause more people to replace out.
Replace Out - Math already said they refused to replace out again, so only Titus would be replacing out in this instance.
Become a Unified Front - This was obviously impossible with the state of things being how they were.

So yes, that is a valid reason to TR you. The only

real

option you gave Titus was to replace out for the good of the town. You can't seriously have not known that's how that would end?

Mustve missed the part where math said smthey deff wouldnt replace out

[Vecna]

Giiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin W@T R UR REEEEeeeeeEEEEEeeeeEEADZzzzzzzZZZZZzz

As of current I'm liking nancy at first glance. She's actively scum hunting and pushing shit/not afraid to get your hands dirty.

You, so far you've been cute and playful so it gives me a town lean on you because of the tell I told you I have on you.

I need to spend some time sorting through the Maxous/Senpai/Vecna arguments that were mentioned the first page I joined in.

For the rest of the playerlist I've forgotten they're in the game or they haven't talked enough for me to start forming interaction reads.

My main scum read is on Nero. He's pushing this case on Math, but he won't vote it, he's also pushing Math for a disproved reason and he can't actually answer a fucking question as to why scum!Math would claim a wonder promising her death. I caught him in his bullshit.

Oh and speaking of Math, by that claim I'm leaning town

So surprising that gin is actively mentioning me here but completely disregards the arguments i brought up a few pages before as to why hes likely scum.

More suspicion points. Vote incoming if theres no mention of it on the nect bunch of pages i still have to read

[Vecna]

I feel like the following are all town:

Ali
Creature
Gin
Leon
Mathblade
Max
PV
Vecna

This has been updated.

Why gin?

[Vecna]

Yeah im just gonna go back to the potential of a NOTICE + ELBIRN/GIN + potentially yuri scumteam here.

Elbirn trying to soft bus notice the way he did on day1 makes sense.

Gin ignored all my posts. In fact most of my posts that i posted 8-10 pages back got largely ignored.

VOTE: Gin n tonic

Also in before notice starts scumreading me again because i removed his reason for doing so

Also fine with voting notice actually. Wouldnt be surprised if alisae is also part of that team.

Alisae/notice/gin/yuri sounds just about right.

Looling forward to the ceasar reply.

Looking forward to people actually not ignoringbmy posts

Looking forward to the moment where people realize that all of the active posters are likely town (minus gin and maybe ali)

[Vecna]

Someone else do me the fsvor of looking up the day1 and day2 voting patterns of these people.

[Vecna]

I don't want to catch up right now.

I'll just point to this page next time someone says Creature is scum.

I like Creature's PoE scumpool, only one I would immediately take off is Senpai. Don't want to lynch in Yuri/Sondam today, but if I'm going to start doubting my TRs they would be the first two to go.

Its almost scary how similair his thoughts are to me. Like either hes uber town, or got told to copy all my reasoning and logic.

[Vecna]

Also, senpai is scum

[Vecna]

Growing more and more sure of it again

[Vecna]

Gin/notice/alisae fits so damn well its allmost too good to be true.

And a random extra space for yuri

[Vecna]

Anyways i do tend to see connections that dont really exist as town. Gotta be carefull with drawing too many hard conclusions and confbiasing myself.

How come you dont see what im seeing leon? We were vibing rather well earlier

Looking forward to your catchup

[Vecna]

Also one of these days i want you to do a vig catchup before ive giveb thoughts on the recent developments

[Vecna]

VOTE: notice me senpai

[Vecna]

Still suspicious of the dondam slot as well. Those last few gerry posts just felt too damn fake and forced trying to appear as his established meta again all of a sudden

[Vecna]

Gin's is town because of tone.

And what tone is that? Because his tone has gone from charismatic, to agitated to erratic.

Which is not somethibg id consider town indicative for anyone.

Talk me through your thinking here please.

[Vecna]

Also him ignoring my suspicions and posta regarding the slot almost feels like hes just hoping noone is gonna listen to my opinion

[Vecna]

Also him ignoring my suspicions and posta regarding the slot almost feels like hes just hoping noone is gonna listen to my opinion

[Vecna]

That leaves:
Yuri
TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Caesar Wills It
CloudKicker
davesaz
Sondam
NoticeMeSenpai

If you take out Dave and Gin and add Brain and nancy, you have my scum reads.

Nancy is not a diehard townlock for you?

[Vecna]

Yuri still hasn't done anything either all game long. Im fibebpolicyibg that as well for information if were not getting anything solid off the ground.

Dont think anuone can really oppose that 1 either

[Vecna]

they are saying that he's coasting but he's not even the worst coaster. (Dave is) and the one's in my living room are old and worn out.

Coasting and being lynchbait is standard Dave townplay. So much even that the fact he was actually posting before made me scumread him. Whether his resorting back to coasting is due to him falling back to his standard pattern or realizing my read was accurate for the right reasons....

[Vecna]

Trust me, Yuri is Town. The wagon on him Day 1 was mostly Town.

This is what a wagon on Town looks like:

Lynch Vote 1.30

Yuri (9): Lil Uzi Vert, Aslan, Vecna, Spiffeh, beeboy, Fro99er, MathBlade, Nero Cain, Creature

beeboy (3): CloudKicker, PeregrineV, Yuri
Sondam (1): Drixx
Aslan (1): Albert B. Rampage
Vecna (1): Caesar Wills It
CloudKicker (1): Maxous
Fro99er (1): Leonshade
NoticeMeSenpai (1): TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Not Voting (3): davesaz, NoticeMeSenpai, Sondam

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to to lynch.

I guarantee there's only 1 scum on Yuri. By PoE it's either LUV or Nero, and LUV is Town. Nero is scum. 1 of {davesaz, Notice, Sondam} (not voting) are scum: Notice. There'll be 1 scum on the 3-person wagon. Yuri is obvtown, CK is Town, so PV is likely scum. The rest of the scum are on the other wagons. ABR, Maxous, Leonshade, Vecna, Drixx and Yuri are all Town, which leaves: Caesar & Gin. This just basic pattern analysis and PoE by strength of reads.

How do you conclude that Yuri is town from this though?

[Vecna]

how come i was ignored when i first talked about notice and now its caught on

Because, me

[Vecna]

K Drixx is not town for attempting to play optimally early game, fucker's like sleeper scum dont give brian a pass just cause drixx didnt scumslip in his first few posts

Drixx is Town therefore Brian Skies is.
Scum don't say what Drixx said.

yeeees they can

[Vecna]

Alisae brought up the point that it would be better to save the alignment because numbers and to add to that, with there being a higher percent chance of Math hitting a townie, if the player was mod confirmed D3 as town, that person would be killed the following night.

also just to clarify, the

plan

was to have the pyramids claim and Math would cop them but PV didn't claim for ???? so we'd still have that IC.

That's grody. That makes sense now from your side.

It's still a damn stretch, tell me still how, as scum it would be best to claim you should die?

I can see a Math/PV scumteam. PV grabbing the Pyramids and then refusing to claim gives Math an out to not be vigged. Killing PV in the night phase makes him look bad for not claiming. Meanwhile, distancing and an outright claim from Math gives Math a free ride to the end game where people can't question why he hasn't died for having his role.

1) I am a They.
2) Even if I get the scumteam right which I am either very good or very bad on scum won't kill me because of Stonehenge. This means I need to rely on Town seeing I am Town. In other words because Titus asked for a claim I have to play the exact opposite of the way I like while job hunting flu fighting band RL responsibilities.
3) I told Titus this and she insisted we have to die so us claiming would not achieve that purpose. She said syncing was impossible and after telling and screaming on Skype I just decided it was less toxic to let Titus have her way than have this continue. When she was wrong on Vecna Pyramids I tried damage control and she replaced out.

Specifically her reasoning was we trade our dysfunctional hydra in which Titus kept screaming Beeboy and ABR scum and any attempts to hunt got shut down with ABR and Caesar have to be the lynch. I townread Caesar at the time so ABR was the only option permissible. When ABR messed things up again I thought he was scum so I tunneled.

Now I realize I should lay back and not tunnel here for reasons mentioned before. The claim IMHO wasn't smart but Titus was begging me to replace out constantly and with how Thing Mafia went after I replaced out I just couldn't replace out again.

Ok, from here on out you are NO LONGER ALLOWED to use your hydra infighting as a reason as to why your town.

PROVE IT by getting proper reads and being usefull. Every 3rd post of you is reminiscing about the past and how awfull it was for you. Stop this now, we no longer care.

We had Titus replace out for a reason. You keeping yapping on about this is resulting in the opposite.

[Vecna]

Oh yeah Sondam.
Yeah they can be locked town too.
That's 8 townreads.

Unsure:
Math, nancy, Yuri, Cloudie, Vecna, Gin, Leon.

Scum:
Maxous, Dave

Being unsure about me at this point is a joke right?

[Vecna]

I said there'll only be 1 scum on the wagon but there could feasibly be as many as 3. 4 would be a stretch.

Bus happy + coasting scum are a thing, having scum wagoned without a counter wagon is a plausible thing if theres 2 just coasting having their vote on a no-wagon and 1-3 others are fine bussing (since lets be honest, why wouldnt you bus yuri in that position?).

[Vecna]

Alisae keeps being obstinate about any scumread people have, without providing any reasons whatsoever.

We need investigation or a lynch on one of the people he's hard-defending so much. His reads are all over the place, and like almost a complete 180 from mine. I dont see other town have that different of a grasp on the game.

[Vecna]

Coasting and being lynchbait is standard Dave townplay. So much even that the fact he was actually posting before made me scumread him. Whether his resorting back to coasting is due to him falling back to his standard pattern or realizing my read was accurate for the right reasons...

hmmmm....I don't really agree. To me he's in the same vein of PV type players that are either really busy or really lazy. I'll be honest here...I can't really read him but I think its plenty possible he's scum sitting there and promising us more content but hasn't had any content related posts in like 6 posts.

I fully agree.

[Vecna]

in fact, ill do a bit of a tone/content comparison between his current play and the play ive seen in his previous 2 towngames.

[Vecna]

Davesaz this game: viewtopic.php?p=8943566&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8943566

in PYP: viewtopic.php?p=8582743&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8582743 (TOWN)

in CODE GEASS viewtopic.php?p=8767578&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8767578 (TOWN lynchbait)

First, going through his iso in this game to characterize his play.

-Short - Medium length posts, showing some desire to gamesolve
-Bunch of questions adressed to people after just replacing in
-LOTS of comments about what is happening in his RL, explaining why he isnt active

Just guide me to scum this time.

In the middle of my catchup, but giving fair warning -- blatant coasting like this will only earn you an incompetence read for a little while -- after that it's screaming scum.

-that post ^
-Readslist appear reasonably genuine
-Reads people their iso's and reports on it a few times
-Actually responds agitated to my comment that he was lynchbait before in code geass as well

So far, rereading all of it....it doesnt really strike me much as scum.

[Vecna]

Part 1 of the Davesaz investigation:

Spoiler:

Davesaz this game: viewtopic.php?p=8943566&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8943566

in PYP: viewtopic.php?p=8582743&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8582743 (TOWN)

in CODE GEASS viewtopic.php?p=8767578&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8767578 (TOWN lynchbait)

First, going through his iso in this game to characterize his play.

-Short - Medium length posts, showing some desire to gamesolve
-Bunch of questions adressed to people after just replacing in
-LOTS of comments about what is happening in his RL, explaining why he isnt active

Just guide me to scum this time.

In the middle of my catchup, but giving fair warning -- blatant coasting like this will only earn you an incompetence read for a little while -- after that it's screaming scum.

-that post ^
-Readslist appear reasonably genuine
-Reads people their iso's and reports on it a few times
-Actually responds agitated to my comment that he was lynchbait before in code geass as well

So far, rereading all of it....it doesnt really strike me much as scum.

Part 2: PYP observations ( viewtopic.php?p=8582743&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8582743 )
-Also short - medium length posts
-Tone appears slightly sharper / less ameniable than in this game, but only a slight difference
-States he usually gets caught as scum because he cannot lie efficiently
-Also does the full overview of reads every once in a blue moon
-from time to time quite opinionated about what people do
-Also into mechanics quite a bit
-Is quite certain about his mechanic knowledge - and acts cocky about it sometimes "having to give lectures to people" that sort of stuff.
-Agitated tone when people do stupid shit such as claiming cards
-Some actually decent reads every now and then
-Loads of comments about not liking certain wagons

[Vecna]

Part 1 of the Davesaz investigation:

Spoiler:

Davesaz this game: viewtopic.php?p=8943566&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8943566

in PYP: viewtopic.php?p=8582743&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8582743 (TOWN)

in CODE GEASS viewtopic.php?p=8767578&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8767578 (TOWN lynchbait)

First, going through his iso in this game to characterize his play.

-Short - Medium length posts, showing some desire to gamesolve
-Bunch of questions adressed to people after just replacing in
-LOTS of comments about what is happening in his RL, explaining why he isnt active

Just guide me to scum this time.

In the middle of my catchup, but giving fair warning -- blatant coasting like this will only earn you an incompetence read for a little while -- after that it's screaming scum.

-that post ^
-Readslist appear reasonably genuine
-Reads people their iso's and reports on it a few times
-Actually responds agitated to my comment that he was lynchbait before in code geass as well

So far, rereading all of it....it doesnt really strike me much as scum.

Part 2: PYP observations ( viewtopic.php?p=8582743&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8582743 )

Spoiler:

-Also short - medium length posts
-Tone appears slightly sharper / less ameniable than in this game, but only a slight difference
-States he usually gets caught as scum because he cannot lie efficiently
-Also does the full overview of reads every once in a blue moon
-from time to time quite opinionated about what people do
-Also into mechanics quite a bit
-Is quite certain about his mechanic knowledge - and acts cocky about it sometimes "having to give lectures to people" that sort of stuff.
-Agitated tone when people do stupid shit such as claiming cards
-Some actually decent reads every now and then
-Loads of comments about not liking certain wagons

Part 3: Code geass observations ( viewtopic.php?p=8767578&user_select%5B% ... 4#p8767578 TOWN)
-Shorter posts
-Plenty of conversation type of posts, responding to people
-Does stuff as voting people for trolling (it was me) and pressuring them to stop
-States quite clearly he doesnt do early reads
-Pays quite a lot of attention to inconsistencies in people their posts
-will actually be quite stubborn when thinking he has caught someone in a lie and keeps on hammering em for it (reminds me of town-gerry a bit)
-Will remember stuff that happened earlier, such as statements, to rub them in people's face later on as a reason to vote them
-Plenty of short "creature-like" train of thought posts
-Once again a bit of a cheeky posting style.

------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line: The play _FEELS_ different. I tried to look at it from an activity point of view. in the other 2 games Dave is much more opinionated about things, more edgy, more cocky, and more "involved" and interacting with people and attacking them directly. I dont see any of that here. Not even the usual mechanical posts to solve stuff (allthough granted, theres less of that in this game at this point).

Just questioning random posts.
No agitation/cockyness or seeming desire to find stuff to attack.
Different tone, more usage of his real life as an excuse why he isnt active (mind you, he never is - but normally never uses actual examples to explain it).

Maybe some of it cna be explained because he's not caught up, but he was before - and showed none of the traits id characterize his townplay with.

Maybe I should go find another scumgame of his to see if my finds hold up there as well. At any rate, for now:

VOTE: Davesaz

[Vecna]

Lol stupid forum quote breakage.

Part 3: Code geass observations ( viewtopic.php?p=8767578&user_select%5B%5D=24574#p8767578 TOWN)
-Shorter posts
-Plenty of conversation type of posts, responding to people
-Does stuff as voting people for trolling (it was me) and pressuring them to stop
-States quite clearly he doesnt do early reads
-Pays quite a lot of attention to inconsistencies in people their posts
-will actually be quite stubborn when thinking he has caught someone in a lie and keeps on hammering em for it (reminds me of town-gerry a bit)
-Will remember stuff that happened earlier, such as statements, to rub them in people's face later on as a reason to vote them
-Plenty of short "creature-like" train of thought posts
-Once again a bit of a cheeky posting style.

------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line: The play _FEELS_ different. I tried to look at it from an activity point of view. in the other 2 games Dave is much more opinionated about things, more edgy, more cocky, and more "involved" and interacting with people and attacking them directly. I dont see any of that here. Not even the usual mechanical posts to solve stuff (allthough granted, theres less of that in this game at this point).

Just questioning random posts.
No agitation/cockyness or seeming desire to find stuff to attack.
Different tone, more usage of his real life as an excuse why he isnt active (mind you, he never is - but normally never uses actual examples to explain it).

Maybe some of it cna be explained because he's not caught up, but he was before - and showed none of the traits id characterize his townplay with.

Maybe I should go find another scumgame of his to see if my finds hold up there as well. At any rate, for now:

VOTE: Davesaz

[Vecna]

VOTE: Davesaz

Yes I really want to vote him

[Vecna]

Subject: NY 198: Nexus is Now a New Normal Mafia (Game Over)

Seems legit to me.
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Pedit: How do you get active lurking? I posted last week that work was too heavy, and I never lie about that.

He made that exact statement this game ^^

[Vecna]

Hey Nancy, how about you stop this fight with Nero and stop spamming my Davesaz case away?

And how about you comment on it, and then let me know if u still townread davesaz afterwards (if im not mistaken youre tr'ing em right?).

[Vecna]

I don't agree with any of nancy's scumreads

I don't have the time or energy to double-check Vecna's case, I'l just put my trust in him. Of interest to me is that davesaz claims to have scumreads in this game but hasn't had a vote out all day. He also had LUV as an (unexplained) scumread alongside ABR in his D2 reads list but the scumread seems to have disappeared since.

VOTE: davesaz

Why would you flawlessly trust my judgement after that ABR faillure?

[Vecna]

Do we even have time to hear back from anyone? Dave seems like a very busy guy and Pine isn't feeling well.

We still have 5 full days....Thats like a small eternity in mafia-time

[Vecna]

......what?

[Vecna]

Delaying it =/= making it vanish

[Vecna]

The result of which is that I've basically decided that the meta tell I thought I had on them could be flawed and they may actually be scum, and considering that possibility landed me here with reads:

MathBlade

Yuri

Brian Skies

Leonshade

Vecna

davesaz

PeregrineV

Caesar Wills It

CloudKicker

Sondam

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Maxous

Aslan

Creature

Lil Uzi Vert

NoticeMeSenpai

Nero Cain

I don't buy this for a second.

You wanted to shade me as much as possible so that you could get a mislynch off on me then follow it with Aslan when no one was around to out that you have a hard meta towntell on Aslan that he did this game.

For everyone who is out of the loop: there is a tell that both myself and nancy are aware of that Aslan

only does as town

. Aslan dropped that towntell in this game. In no world where nancy is town does she ever ever

EVER

consider Aslan as scum in this game given that. This is an incredibly weak walk back from that now that she thinks she can mislynch me/that I have no credibility and all will be forgotten for her to go after Aslan without someone around to call out her shit.

Youre gonna share what this towntell is now.....?

[Vecna]

Thank you for finally fucking Towntelling Senpai. OK so this puts me at:

MathBlade

Brian Skies

davesaz

NoticeMeSenpai

Aslan

Creature

Caesar Wills It

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

PeregrineV

CloudKicker

Sondam

Yuri

Lil Uzi Vert

Leonshade

Maxous

Vecna

Nero Cain

Which is strikingly similar to where I was at much earlier in the day, I just have a lot more confidence in this now.

Also....seriously? You scumread both him and aslan, and then jump a complete 180 after being called out for being full of it? And state just those 4 posts and that 1 statement made you completely flip your reads?

I want this so-called "super meta piece" to be outted.

No more excuses.

[Vecna]

Thank you for finally fucking Towntelling Senpai. OK so this puts me at:

MathBlade

Brian Skies

davesaz

NoticeMeSenpai

Aslan

Creature

Caesar Wills It

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

PeregrineV

CloudKicker

Sondam

Yuri

Lil Uzi Vert

Leonshade

Maxous

Vecna

Nero Cain

Which is strikingly similar to where I was at much earlier in the day, I just have a lot more confidence in this now.

Also youre gonna tell me why youre scumreading me, after hard townreading me earlier and flipping around the way you did.

I want some good reasoning.

[Vecna]

i havent read dave but 6-7 slots agreeing with eachothers on a slots that isnt very actives, all in the span of 4-5 pages is exactly how mislynches on lynchbait lurkers happen

Read my comparisons of his play, dont just talk about lynchbait and blablabla.

Just because someone is lurking, doesnt mean he's auto town lynchbaiting.

[Vecna]

Also, that lynch possibility has been discussed over a lot more than 4-5 pages.

[Vecna]

Hmmm I actually hope youre not correct here, but I do have to admit I probably have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to leon

[Vecna]

At any rate, when I wake up tomorrow itd be lovely if either notice or nancy has explained that read on ali, and the other confirmed that that was what they were talking about.

Something really really fishy is going on with that trio.

[Vecna]

Yeah a lot of Nancy's flip-flopping around is unexplained, but I doubt its coming from scum. At any rate, im not happy about it.

[Vecna]

Vecna they wont give the tell ever, its common place to keep really successful tell for yourself because when shared, the tell become unusable

This is complete bullshit if true. Theyre basing their complete play and their entire read-set over it so we have the right to know to analyze whether theyre full of crap or not.

[Vecna]

i havent read dave but 6-7 slots agreeing with eachothers on a slots that isnt very actives, all in the span of 4-5 pages is exactly how mislynches on lynchbait lurkers happen

Read my comparisons of his play, dont just talk about lynchbait and blablabla.

Just because someone is lurking, doesnt mean he's auto town lynchbaiting.

Im talking about game behavior, not individuals behaviors. Its easy for mefia to keep a mislynch option entertained just in case they have to push that very agenda the moment they need it. Keeping the idea of a dave lynch open makes towns much more easily coerced into giving in and changing their votes. Nancy's change of heart on ceasar is as of yet, unexplained and i read her posts

I played Vecna. He's been obvscumming for ages now and I just wanted to use him to fish out the other scum. I got extremely frustrated last night and gave up, but now that I know Senpai is Town I'm feeling motivated again. Caesar is really painfully obvious Town to me, but that might just be the personal connection I have with him making him easy for me to read.

Oh boy. LUV/Maria, please tell this slot that its day3 and there havent been any scumlynches - AKA, its bussing time if im scum. Better sheep me, im bandwagoning my teammates!

Also, how convenient to do this when I finally do put in some work to give reasons for voting Davesaz. How about you put away that bad read on me, and actually approach my dave-case with an open mind? Because if im right, and your ignoring my case with some emo-attack and the story that you were trying to "play myself to make me out my team" - then tomorrow im gonna flip around some reads as well.

[Vecna]

oh yeah Vecna I'm making this post to remind you that I don't really care about you, hence why I'm not putting effort to sort you.
Cry, kick, complain all you want, I really could not give a fuck.

Which is not your town game

[Vecna]

oh yeah Vecna I'm making this post to remind you that I don't really care about you, hence why I'm not putting effort to sort you.
Cry, kick, complain all you want, I really could not give a fuck.

Also this post is -total nonsense- after that code geass game we just played together, where you wrongly scumread me for large parts, only to get killed and have me (&Leon) carry your ass to victory afterwards.

Why on earth would you NOT put in the effort to sort these slots?

[Vecna]

In response to the posts / votes following this:

But I'm going out, my daughter's glasses are ready to pick up.

I

never

lie about RL.

It's still day so I assume I haven't been lynched. Congratulations, you're managed to keep civilization going.

In separate news,

it is bedtime

, tomorrow I have work, a 504 meeting for my son, my daughter's 16th birthday.
You can expect serious work from me if I survive to get a wonder and useful results, or about day 5 if not.
Meanwhile, chill pills all around. Thanks!

Just because you dont lie about reallife dont make you town.

As town you never actually mention your reallife, and you dont care at all whether people know why youre afk.

[Vecna]

leon as mefia would lead to alisae/vecna and myself as town, dave as possble partner

vecna is mefia

~Gerry

Hey Gerry, how about you use some sense of logic if youre town?

Answer me this - if I was scum again in this game - why would I directly attack you, knowing what it would result in if you were town?

Also, Maria hiding behind this Gerry gimmick is really really weaksauce.

[Vecna]

Ive had a similair discussion with davesaz in PYP where he actually stated that he cannot lie well and fake town-behaviour, which is why he usually gets caught.

Now lo, and behold - in this game, most of his posts are filled with him talking about real-life, stating he doesnt lie about reallife and him making long posts doing some strange calculations with numbers.

ALL POSTS THAT DO NOT INVOLVE HIM SHOWING ANY TOWN THOUGHT PROCESS.

[Vecna]

Very surprising that noone has actually managed to respond to my analysis of Davesaz's playstyles. People are appealing to me, left right and centers, accusing me of shit, showing how much of a badboy they are for ignoring me.....

But noone has actually come out and told me why im wrong. Or why Davesaz IS lynchbait as opposed to just caught scum.

@Gerry, I want you or maria to respond to this case

@Gin n Tonic - Divert that attention from me thinking your scum to reading and assessing my davesaz analysis.

@Leonshade - make that time, and assess my case.

@Nancy - get over your read of me, and keep a blank slate. I still dont really think youre scum, so get over yourself.

@LUV - what do you think? You've also played with Davesaz before with me.

[Vecna]

For today ill randomly submit between the investigation wonder, no wonder or the Hagia Sofia.

We need some others that randomly submit between the Roleblocker (Never to be used untill endgame) and the investigation and no build

And the same for the night action blocker.

Preferably some obv-town people thatll be killed that can submit for these wonders that are rather useless to town but are great utility while denied to scum.

[Vecna]

As for today, id kind of want to lynh either Davesaz or NoticeMeSenpai.

Still no response AT ALL to my Davesaz case just makes me a sad puppy.

[Vecna]

Why on earth would you NOT put in the effort to sort these slots?

You can wait late game if I'm around

Scumread intensifies.

[Vecna]

In response to the posts / votes following this:

But I'm going out, my daughter's glasses are ready to pick up.

I

never

lie about RL.

It's still day so I assume I haven't been lynched. Congratulations, you're managed to keep civilization going.

In separate news,

it is bedtime

, tomorrow I have work, a 504 meeting for my son, my daughter's 16th birthday.
You can expect serious work from me if I survive to get a wonder and useful results, or about day 5 if not.
Meanwhile, chill pills all around. Thanks!

Just because you dont lie about reallife dont make you town.

As town you never actually mention your reallife, and you dont care at all whether people know why youre afk.

Have all our previous games been during the holidays when I'm on vacation from work and the kids are out of school?

The reason doesnt matter, its the behaviour. Town-Davesaz wouldnt try to laugh this off, but be snappy and confrontational at me being terrible for being so wrong. At least thats how id picture your response to this pressure if it was wrong.

[Vecna]

viewtopic.php?p=8816739#p8816739
viewtopic.php?p=8774803#p8774803

Well at least that is something of a defence - allthough finding 1 example per game still doesnt raelly compare to what we've seen here.

Hmmmm

[Vecna]

Subject: Gistou: Madness of Monsters

Just saw the 1st vc after dinner. Don't forget the plurality lynch mechanic. Be especially wary of unvote / revote the same player in a short timeframe, as it will be seen as manipulative to push that player lower in the group of tied votes.
I played plurality for years before moving here, so have all the relevant tricks up my sleeves

This is from the scum PT. As scum Davesaz has a mechanics mentality that is missing from his play.
He is also a lot more confident as scum.
Furthermore he handled RL differently.

UNVOTE: Davesaz

[Vecna]

@Vecna: I like your Dave case but I also want to hear from others like Math who have town meta on Dave. I just don't feel Dave is scum though.

Noted, and I value your and math's opinion on this. Searching for a different wagon - people hopped on in a terrrible manner (Leon, Alisae) so im suddenly liking this wagon a lot less since it feels like the day3 mislynch.

[Vecna]

Nero is more interested in sounding plausible than being right.

theses posts of him before this statement sound like neither to me

[Vecna]

UNVOTE:

Oh, he unvoted before me. Nice

[Vecna]

VOTE: Maxous
Dear town: Can we please not no lynch today and lynch Maxous. Thanks.
Love, Ali

Oh even Alisae unvoted before me. hmmmm

[Vecna]

LUV Cloud maybe.
Sondam no.
BaeReed no.
Those are solid "NO"s
Those "NO"s mean if scum want to lynch Sondam and BaeReed, they're going to have to nightkill me.

convince me why I need to believe your reads, when your read on mine is completely wrong, and youve been refusing to answer any of my questions the entire game.

Do this, and we might actually get somewhere where I take your reads seriously and we can get to a great lynch today.

[Vecna]

What ho, Senators!

Your Glorious Emperor tends to concur with Senator Lil Uzi Vert regarding Senator Sondam, but as We suspect the former's motives, We are less secure in this assessment.

Much of what has gone on in Our absence feels like the Senate's usual frustration and inactivity. We believe many of the present candidates for conviction to be victims of plots by enemies of the Empire, looking to seize upon the Senate's intractability.

Spoiler: Prodge?

This isn't

really

a blatant prodge, but I'm in that range.

I'm trying here, guys. I've been mostly keeping up, but it's been hard to muster the effort to do the heavy lifting I really need to do to make a real re-entrance. Suffice to say that I have some good reasons to suspect LUV, and will do my damnedest to post my case on him before day end in case I die (unlikely, given the potential to ML me.) Sondam was/is also on my list, but LUV looking to opportunistically move on them makes me uneasy.

Most of the wagons right now are trash.

You still have a lot more pressing matters to attend to as well. Were still looking for a wagon, and youre quickly sneaking back to the top of my preference list.

[Vecna]

Specifically, the efforts against Senators Senpai, nancy, and yourself meet with Our disdain, as does lingering resentment against Our Person. The attacks against Senator davesaz also seem baseless, though We object with less vigor. We have no feelings whatever regarding Senator Cloudkicker, as Our investigation of him remains inconclusive, and We approve of incipient movement against Maxous and Leonshade.

We have given the criminal Vecna the additional scrutiny that Senator nancy requested, in light of her insight, but remain steadfast in Our judgment against the traitor. However, We recognize that perseverating for a conviction of the barbarian in this session is likely a fruitless effort, so we will lend the efforts against the scoundrel Leonshade Our blessing.

We fervently hope to elaborate on these positions soon.

VOTE: Leonshade

VOTE: Caesar

Just have had about enough of this nonsense.

[Vecna]

^ doing control + f to find their name, ignores everything else, thinking they know shit

[Vecna]

All you people with your fake reads on me should probably realize that at least 5-6 people have mentioned such a read on me. Any person which was really reading the game, AND really scumreading me would be trying to wagon me by now.

but ofcourse, its mostly fabricated nonsense.

People this applies to: Nancy, Alisea, Sondam, Caesar, Mathblade and someone else im no doubt forgetting.

[Vecna]

Youre gonna state now that youve actually read the thread Gerry? Dont make me laugh

[Vecna]

See, if you read the actual thread you'd know you were closer to a null for me atm. But youre just being insistent on being a detriment to town. This is why you'll never be nightkilled and any town that doesnt mislynch you as town is doomed to lose in lylo. I sure know thats what we were banking on in PYP as our easiest wincondition.

[Vecna]

So, either get serious or put maria in charge, ive just about had enough of your nonsense as well.

[Vecna]

Btw Mathblade, ive read your gistou link and ill agree with your assesment that I was most likely wrong on Davesaz and shouldve had a scum game to compare it with.

Thank you for most likely saving us from a mislynch.

[Vecna]

I said you need to read the thread to know what MY read on YOU is clown.

[Vecna]

As long as we have a mislynch remaining, id gladly lynch the sondam slot btw.

Best lynch we can have to increase our wincondition.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Sondam

Even if town, he will make us lose the game in lylo, I guarantee it.

This is the most pro-town lynch we can ahve since maria is not playing anymore.

[Vecna]

Theres at most 1 scum in that list. Most likely 0

[Vecna]

Indeed gerrry, you do suck, and that is my reason for voting you.

First accurate statement you made all game. Bravo

[Vecna]

Exactly, not even gonna argue it. That is my entire reason.

I want to win this game, having you around makes sure we will lose.

[Vecna]

Its not even frustration, just logical thought based on what I know of your play, that is once again confirmed to your current behaviour.

Besides your reads are shit anyway, so its not like your vote is ever gonna help town.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Nay
No. Let's not give scum that information thanks.

scumclaim

VOTE: Nay

The info isn't all that useful, and we can make people claim it anyway if we really want to know.

Oh yeah btw I'm pretty sure Leon is scum now considering his Sondam vote.

Sondam was going to be lynched with or without my vote, I merely sped up the process.

Wtf, scumclaim

Glorious Caesar greets the new Senators, and presumes that they shall serve the patricians they represent with dedication and wit.

We are most pleased with the foiling of whatever Barbarian plots were attempted in the night, and have little regret for the condemnation of the late Senator Sondam. While their innocence has since been proven, We feel that they were more useful to Our cause as a momentary diversion in the arena than any efforts they attempted in the Senate chambers.

We shall collect Ourself and present Our cause against the heathens Vecna and Leonshade later this day.

Augustus Caesar

How convenient. Its true, but you didnt state this as a reason at all.

We bid the criminal Leonshade to silence, as his voice grates upon Our Ears.

We are quite concerned that certain Senators are using the spectre of Barbarian influence as a pretext to deny information to the Senators. The resolution proposed would be of great value in assessing claims made, and is of practically no detriment. We dismiss any fearmongering to the contrary with contempt.

VOTE: Yea

Good. This resolution better not have passed with a Nay in my absence. Currently rereading from the start of the day and live commenting as we go. Im just gonna assume I was docsaved for convenience's sake.

[Vecna]

No. Let's not give scum that information thanks.

convince me.

Kinda nice that Gorkington replaced into a most-likely scumslot since itll probably be rather easy to confirm during my reread whether my suspicions are true.

Attention to Gorkingposts increased to AAA status

Gork tbh I expect that from you.
Actually yeah I like your arguements.
VOTE: Yea
#180sarescummy.

EXPLAIN WHY YOU LIKED THEM

. The arguments didnt make sense at all, and were clearly from someone that didnt know the setup. More scumclaim from Alisae.

hm i had an idea about the rsolution but it doesnt really works

Would like to know what this was.

Exemple :

CK tried to build
X : not built
Y : built

We know that town has X and mefias doesnt. Mefia would already know that town has X so theres no downside or am i not seeing it ?

The downside is when town flips and the same scenario happens no? Like mefia would know which wonders they tried to build and failed, if mefia doesnt have that wonder then town has it. Its like a resolution that is like "win more" than a resolution that helps town with their mislynches

Good-post, the first clear reasoning on the topic.

well let's do a bit of a rundown here:

MathBlade

- between herself and Titus, has to be town surely. it was ridiculous scum-theater if they're not

Brian Skies

- Drixx was so obviously town that i'm sticking to the read. at least until i get a damn good reason why i shouldn't.

Caesar Wills It

- Still think Pine bleeds town here. I'll be disapointed if i'm misreading him *this* badly. but i don't think i am

Vecna

- I would certainly hope he's town considering his behaviour around the ABR wagon on D2.

NoticeMeSenpai

- still a very genuine slot that i would be surprised to see flip scum.

nancy

- Spiffeh's meltdown was town and nancy is fairly town too despite very whimsical read changes.

---

Alisae
Nero Cain
Leonshade
Gorkington
Creature
Lil Uzi Vert

---

lynch-list

KidAmn - Yuri probably should of been lynched D1 in retrosepect. Yuri coasted like fuck on D2 & D3 when he wasn't under pressure anymore. Wasn't exactly a town-read for me on Day 1 either..i regret not hammering.
CloudKicker - still scum.
davesaz - i got some cold feet about lynching him yesterday but i can't quite remember why. A glance at his ISO shows that reads are still scarce from him and he seems more interested in explaning why he's not giving reads instead of playing along and just giving reads. Vote on Mathblade doesn't impress either.

This is a nice post for evaluation actually. Showing regret about earlier actions? Sounds town'ish. At the same time, I never saw town-Maxous be this elaborate in PYP as town. Not really agreeing with the reads regarding drixx and Notice. Also rather weak-ass lynch list since it shows NO suspicion in any of the active players at all. Will keep this post in mind for later.

Maxous if you really want to have any credibility whatsoever with me you need to provide content so i can sort you correclty, saying im still scum doesnt cut it

Your scum list is pretty terrible, dave towntold recently and yuri is one of the most likely town slot for the game behaviors of d1. i agree with the nancy/vecna reads mostly everything else should moves

Cloudkicker slot continuing to make town-posts.

my town-list is not open for debate unless there's a

really

good specific reason.

i even trimmed people i kinda town-read but am not very confident on like creature and Leon.

p-edit: PV is town.
can we please stop debating this?

Seems like a pretty town-reply from maxous here tbh.

@Nero @Vecna I have no idea if my push on you yesterday had anything to do with you both being alive today, but I'd like to think so. It was pretty obvious we weren't netting a scum lynch, I tried to make the best of a bad situation.

@Maxous the hydra dissonance doesn't have to be scum theater. It is entirely possible for all of that to occur within a scum hydra and be 100% genuine.

I dont get this post at all. Nancy is dropping fast on my townreads list, especially after the emo-outburst at the Davesaz wagon yesterday. Starting to suspect it couldve been scum whiteknighting. Still makes more sense as town than scum but I really dont like the direction of their recent posting.

@Nero @Vecna I have no idea if my push on you yesterday had anything to do with you both being alive today, but I'd like to think so. It was pretty obvious we weren't netting a scum lynch, I tried to make the best of a bad situation.

@Maxous the hydra dissonance doesn't have to be scum theater. It is entirely possible for all of that to occur within a scum hydra and be 100% genuine.

...Nero should have been lynched. We could have flash lynched Nero and probably hit a scum lynch.

Someone please explain Nero townreads please?

I even said MariaR towntold wtf people?
I say Beeboy is town people don't listen wtf?

So you told us 2 of our lynches were town. Even I knew Sondam was town yesterday. I still have no clue why he got speedlynched in the way he did since it was obv it was gonna be a mislynch. Im not gonna say I mind since I did call for it. Id like to see you analyze the wagon formation and give me your conclusions on it. I have a very strong idea about it, and id like to see if it matches your conclusion. At any way, I would be able to take your reads more seriously if you didnt continue to scumread the most obvious town in this game (HINT: me).

Hey Math.
Your scumread on Nero and PV is bad.

Okay tell me how. Show me where I am wrong so I read them better.

Kid idc but I got a question for ya.
Your previous slot holder stated they built Machu Picchu. Can you confirm this?

ALISAE CONTINUES TO IGNORE ALL QUESTIONS. MATHBLADE JUST LETS HIM IGNORE THE QUESTION AND NEVER FOLLOWS UP ON IT.

Kid idc but I got a question for ya.
Your previous slot holder stated they built Machu Picchu. Can you confirm this?

I really hate to call myself a liar, but I gotta. I don't have Machu Picchu. I would hope you'll understand that I don't want to discuss any other builds/failed builds at this point?

Oh good because he didn't. Saying you did have that would be a scumclaim.

Interesting. Real genuine reaction test, or scum theatre?

Does a roleblock count as a guilty?

TOWN PICKING THE ROLEBLOCK SHOULD PROBABLY NOT USE IT.

its funny because your pred did exactly what you are doing rn

:/

Even if it blocked the kill, you dont count it as a guilty inb4 i get fosed for saying this.

fos.

Feels like scumposting from gork

Okay, I won't state who I roleblocked for a while, for reactions.

Reminder for myself to get deeper into this if it hasnt.

Who do you have a guilty on?

This is a scum response.

I still will most likely lynch the person I blocked.

If it's within my SRs I will rejoice for having an acccurate view of the game right now.

{Caesar, CK, Maxous, Nero, PV, Vecna}
{Brian, davesaz}
{Yurislot}
{Ginslot}
{Aslan, Leonshade, Math, Notice, LUV}

What the hell? Im suddenly your top townread again?

So youre thinking the notice post attacking you for a read on Alisae is fake? I STILL DEMAND THE REASONING WHY THAT HAPPENED.

Also there way in hell you consider JaeReed scum here.

Why the fuck not? The slot is uber-scummy and hasnt done shit all game. START EXPLAINING SHIT.

Thank you for finally fucking Towntelling Senpai.

OK so this puts me at:

MathBlade

Brian Skies

davesaz

NoticeMeSenpai

Aslan

Creature

Caesar Wills It

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

PeregrineV

CloudKicker

Sondam

Yuri

Lil Uzi Vert

Leonshade

Maxous

Vecna

Nero Cain

Which is strikingly similar to where I was at much earlier in the day, I just have a lot more confidence in this now.

Not after a post like this especially considering the bolded.

At least you noticed this too. So youre very honed in on the fishy-ness going on here. Might also mean you are actually scum with Notice though. The flip from Nancy could make some sense if she simply agrees with my assesment of whats going on here. Hmmmm

[Vecna]

Also alisae, did you change your playstyle? i think you did

Im not the only one noticing the difference in Alisae playstyle. Interesting.

VOTE: LUV

Scum please bus.

If I'm scum I'm bussing atm, please help me.

Oh look at this. The slot is flipping around me/Alisae/Notice VERY HARD. Yet what does it vote? LUV? The fuck?

How can you have this much of a read flipping around going on, AND NOT wanting to lynch to sort it out for yourself?

This reads very much like <SCUMCLAIM> to me. Damn, was I wrong all this time? Explaining time or dying time Nancy.

btw if someone grabbed Chichen Itza it's basicly a cop, just target yourself and one other player if you're town.

Can only be done once, and is a bad use of the wonder since you already know your own allignment. DO NOT DO THIS.

Math, Forbidden Palace was made for you.

Did you suddenly forget math already has a wonder?

LUV is 100% a better lynch today than Leon. Leon can die tomorrow.

Again no mention of either Alisae or Notice....the 2 people that went from top townread to top scumread earlier. The hell is this.

Wow, you people suck at scumhunting.

Townread of creature is also slowly vanishing.

There's literally no way that Aslan isn't scum here. All his behavior with scumslots aside his play yesterday and today is just scum overload.

Yet youre pushing elsewhere, and keep insisting that she's bussing Leon. Yet youre voting LUV. Does not add up.

You gave off some pretty reliable Town tells according to the meta I have on you.

Yeah no you don't consider me as scum here after saying this.

Meta is not reliable.

Hmmmmm. Starting to expect that Alisae vs Nancy is scum vs scum based on interactions like this. Would also explain why notice noticed (he-he) the discrepancy in Nancy scumreading Alisae and the slot instantly flipping.
Only works if Notice is town though, which im not so sure about.

do you have experience with his towngame?

Yeah I played with him in Code Geass Mafia when he was town and there he was basicly obvtown from what I remember. Yet again this was like going back to like D3 and D4 where we were blatantly gamesolving and were on the right pace.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69708

I agree with this assesment btw, Leonshade is starting to look more different from his play there as the days pass by. He was very involved D1/D2 but is getting less and less involved as the game progresses and doesnt have anywhere near the same sense of gamesolving desire.

Based on that game I also feel youre playing different though.

Whats stopping you?

oh dangit are my posts not seeming very town?
hm.
i'll try and readjust.
do you have any suggestions for me?

Gorkington trying out the too scum to be scum approach? Hows it working out gorker?

Vecna Vecna Vecna

Let's see if that works.

It does, but you'll generally have to wait till its not nighttime in my timezone

I said I see it as an option coming up if the current wagons don't pick up

this is scum planning to go with whatever wagon is popular.

I really dont think so. Ive seen his scum-game and his voting behaviour and reasoning is way different. Im not saying im infallible in my reads and all that, but I really really think this wagon on LUV is another mislynch. And I havent tried to dissuade any other wagon so far this game (i think?) but I really dont want LUV to be our lynch today.

VOTE: LUV
yeah fine this read has degraded to scum now.

The fuck, after all this nancy/leonshade you just compromise to this? Really?

Hey buddy!
Your posts today have been disgusting.

Wrong

Well, Ali's vote is the straw that broke the camel's back here. I'm done.

I'm town and haven't attempted to build a wonder.

Well that was awkward.

Senators Alisae and nancy, desist this instant with thy antagonism. Your loyalty is entirely assured in My Eyes, and We will not have your bickering distract from the holy mission of this Senate, namely to serve the Roman people. We would chastise you both to teach you a lesson in humility and wisdom, but We require your services in council.

Our scribe is preparing a lengthy address to the Senate regarding Our present positions on matters of import, but the short of it is that We endorse motions against the criminals and traitors known as Vecna, Leonshade, and Lil Uzi Vert. This last We know We have provided little reasoning for, and We note that a large part of this reason is that the selfsame Lil Uzi Vert defied Our quite explicit decree that the final motion to convict be held until your Emperor be able to present His case on him. We find this no small coincidence. In Our address on the morrow, We shall lay Our allegations against each of these three barbarians, as well as present Our suspicions as to who their compatriots may be.

Caesar Wills It

And this slot is still slowly slithering by WITHOUT THAT DAMN CASE ON ME, AND ANY IN-DEPTH REASONING AS TO WHY IT IS SO PERSISTANT IN ITS HORRIBLE READ.

VOTE: Caesar - youre reaching Sondam levels of annoying/useless by now and youre doing nothing to let us read your slot, and ill gaslit your ass any second now if you keep this shit up. If you didnt notice - nearly everyone is gonna sheep me in this game. So how about you do as I ask so we can deduce whether your read on me is genuine or whether we indeed need to lynch you? Because I do agree with your Leonshade read, but youre not giving us anything to figure out whether your just bussing there if the slot is scum.

Additionally, We note that this most recent claim by the scoundrel Lil Uzi Vert is precisely what a constructor of the Great Lighthouse or Machu Picchu would say.

True, but its also what any town would say that has been harping about waiting for the late-era wonders all game.

Only going to respond with DK from now.

Can you guys just trust me this is his town defence style? Ive been observing his scum-defences all game long in PYP where he also was under constant attack. THIS IS NOTHING LIKE THAT.

People are hopping onto this wagon because were close to catching scum elsewhere.

Please, continue scumclaiming. Colors are pretty, I tried a lot of variations and I like the one where you're red best.

Liking something doesn't make it true. FYI I also can't scum claim as I'm not scum.

Likely at least one scum if not more in: CloudKicker, PV, nancy, Gorkington, Creature, Alisae, Leonshade, Brian Skies, Yuri
Likely at least one scum if not more in: Lil Uzi Vert, Vecna, Leonshade, Caesar Wills It, nancy, Alisae, CloudKicker
Likely at least one scum if not more in: Vecna, Creature, Nero Cain, Gorkington, Caesar Wills It, Brian Skies, Leonshade, Lil Uzi Vert

That is what we know from VCA (and obviously I'm town sooooooo)

Then start adding and subtracting townreads from that list. If people suggest scum teams that don't meet those criteria I'm going to go WTF and ask how an all town lynch on that specific day happened. You'll see that's what I did from earlier VCAs as well.

Nero, PV, Caesar, LUV << I think those four are all scum.

Making note; Town-mathblade in PYP did never do VCA. Town-mathblade in PYP never kept repeating that "he's town obviously" even after getting voted. Also I dont see any of the agitated self-righteous tunneling in this game. Townread/nullread of mathblade is going down a bit more.

[Vecna]

Lets see if I can do something with my different trains of thought.

Universe 1:

Alisae Nero Cain nancy Vecna CloudKicker Lil Uzi Vert

KidAmn MathBlade Creature Maxous Brian Skies davesaz

Leonshade
Gorkington
Caesar Wills It
NoticeMeSenpai

Alternative universe 1:

Alisae Nero Cain NoticeMeSenpai Vecna CloudKicker Lil Uzi Vert

KidAmn MathBlade Creature Brian Maxous Skies davesaz

Leonshade
Gorkington
Caesar Wills It
nancy

Alternative universe 2:

Nero Cain NoticeMeSenpai Vecna CloudKicker Lil Uzi Vert

KidAmn MathBlade Creature Maxous Brian Skies davesaz

Leonshade
Gorkington
Caesar Wills It
nancy
Alisae

Do take note; I do not have very super-strong scumreads yet. Some deep level comparisons on Nero make me town-lean there since his involvement is indeed picking up compared to his usual scum one-liners. He might be doing that to distort reads ofcourse, but all his reasoning so far I can follow and see coming from a town-place. Dont think he;d be able to fake it.

The trinity of Notice/Nancy/Alisae is of importance, but its as of yet very hard to deduce which is scum and town there. I could see nancy/alisae be SvS theater, TvT clown fiesta with either notice as a laughing third scum or town as well, or the scenario where only nancy or only Alisae is scum. I dont think Nancy and Notice are scum together due to the way Notice called nancy out, and I dont think hed do that as a bus (but I could be wrong ofcourse).

Ill need to do some more in-depth looking at the sondam case, allthough when I was reading it during the night I already felt a certain way that I will not disclose yet.

My agitation with the ceasar slot is growing.

For now, id say Leonshade is the most likely lynch resulting in scum. Very big 180, but im starting to suspect he was indeed copying most of my reads day1/2 and he isnt showing any desire to solve this game anymore.

VOTE: Leonshade

[Vecna]

oh no Vecna is death tunneling me again D:

Sucks that trying to kill me during the night didnt work right?

Call GM - If you get doc-saved, would you get a notification that you were saved from a kill?

[Vecna]

Trump should hire me.

[Vecna]

Talk Creature, what was all this stuff about roleblocking. You probably shouldnt be using the roleblock too much (or not at all) since it has a lot more likelyhood to ruin town wonders than scum wonders.

Call GM - if the person performing the scum factional kill is roleblocked, will it stop the factional kill altogether, or will another person perform the kill meaning it will still happen?

[Vecna]

Also im just going to out this since I expect scum tried to kill me so they can WIFOM later on that my wonder was used to frame them or w/e (which would mean they took the wonder to hide people their builds).

I AM THE BUILDER OF THE HAGIA SOFIA. ALL YOUR INVESTIGATIONS SHALL PROVIDE TRUTHFULL RESULTS SINCE I SHALL NEVER USE THIS WONDER.

EDIT: Please don't use my color or similar shades kthx.

[Vecna]

Maxous, I want you to work with me and clear LUV since he is a mislynch. You should have the same meta on him and see the very very clear difference in his play from PYP. His current play just oozes town in a way that everyone should see that has played with him before imo.

Were not gonna force him to play the way we want him to. He's town and were not lynching him or wasting effort there.

[Vecna]

At least you noticed this too. So youre very honed in on the fishy-ness going on here. Might also mean you are actually scum with Notice though. The flip from Nancy could make some sense if she simply agrees with my assesment of whats going on here. Hmmmm

What is your assessment of what is going on here? There's nothing fishy, I was WIFOMing the fuck out of Notice and watching how they responded. It's called scumhunting.

VOTE: LUV

Scum please bus.

If I'm scum I'm bussing atm, please help me.

Oh look at this. The slot is flipping around me/Alisae/Notice VERY HARD. Yet what does it vote? LUV? The fuck?

How can you have this much of a read flipping around going on, AND NOT wanting to lynch to sort it out for yourself?

I'm scumreading LUV..?

So this flip-flopping around your vote on me, was just a reaction test as well? And you do this provably in all your games?

[Vecna]

So this flip-flopping around your vote on me, was just a reaction test as well? And you do this provably in all your games?

Yes no. I'm moving away from heavy WIFOM in my play actually, it was mostly an experiment.

How about you post a list of your -actual- reads without wifom?

And then tell me which of your posts containing reads, IN THE PAST, were real reads.

I want to be able to follow your real progression of reads. Testing people and pushing for a reaction is fine. Being completely unaccountable for everything you say, or every read you got is not. We already have one such person in this game (ceasar) and that annoyance is more than enough.

[Vecna]

Notice + Alisae + Leonshade + Ceasar does sound like a pretty plausible scumteam I guess.

[Vecna]

Maybe with the addition of the Yuri/replacement slot, and possibly creature/Brian skies as the lesser likely scum.

Yep thats pretty much where im at.

[Vecna]

Hmmm Gorkington belongs in there as well.

[Vecna]

At any read my list of solid towns that ill strongly oppose to lynch is growing, so im starting to feel better and better about this game, even though we yet have to see a scum flip.

[Vecna]

My prediction: Either I got docsaved from the nightkill or creature roleblocked someone in [Nancy/Alisae] , [Ceasar/Leonshade] and the bussing is intensified because of it.

[Vecna]

^ dont be offended if you come back to a noosed avatar

[Vecna]

Oh fucking hell, I just now realized that Sondam flipped with the tracker, and that petra wasnt the setup question wonder.

Talk about gamethrowing to selfhammer their as opposed to claiming that thing.

WOTC/dodging any game that Gerry ever intends on joining from now on

[Vecna]

Not if they had claimed they had the tracker wonder

[Vecna]

lol did someone just alt-slip?

[Vecna]

VECNA WHY DID YOU CLAIM THAT DO YOU HAVE A DEATHWISH?

This thing has no town-utility at all. All it does is further confirm me as town, by claiming and letting this scum-tool go to waste. If scum wanna kill a slot that can no longer get a useful wonder they can go right ahead.

In the meanwhile ill be here being a thorn in their side.

[Vecna]

Ego

Yeah now I kinda need to know behind which cover youre hiding Matt

Reveal yourself!

[Vecna]

Not if they had claimed they had the tracker wonder

Wouldn't we assume they're scum who got tracker for themselves?

No? Why would scum ever take a tracker

[Vecna]

At any rate, it no longer matters. It just confirmed all the more to me what I already knew.

[Vecna]

Yeah Nahdia, who did you let into this game huh.

[Vecna]

I bet its Nancy btw.

[Vecna]

VECNA WHY DID YOU CLAIM THAT DO YOU HAVE A DEATHWISH?

This thing has no town-utility at all. All it does is further confirm me as town, by claiming and letting this scum-tool go to waste. If scum wanna kill a slot that can no longer get a useful wonder they can go right ahead.

In the meanwhile ill be here being a thorn in their side.

What was your result atleast?

Youre mixing up wonders.

[Vecna]

My prediction: Either I got docsaved from the nightkill or creature roleblocked someone in [Nancy/Alisae] , [Ceasar/Leonshade] and the bussing is intensified because of it.

Alisae was not roleblocked. I would bet the game on that. Leonshade is a townread.

Therefore Creature would have blocked Nancy or Caesar or someone was saved from the NK via a DOC I'm not buying scum shot you when your reads are atrocious and you're literally just dividing my townreads hard.

Furthermore at least I feel vindicated arguing with Titus she kept screaming MariaR scum and couldn't give me a reason after I said MariaR towntold. So at least I feel some derpage stop came out of d1. Note to self: Never hydra with Titus again.

Why are you triggered so hard by a prediction?

[Vecna]

Oh fucking hell, I just now realized that Sondam flipped with the tracker, and that petra wasnt the setup question wonder.

Talk about gamethrowing to selfhammer their as opposed to claiming that thing.

WOTC/dodging any game that Gerry ever intends on joining from now on

Bullshit. You really made a read wall without realizing what MariaR flipped? Bull FUCKING shit.

That means your entire read wall is null and void to me.

Your reads now with that into account.

Thats nonsense, because my reads arent influenced by what wonder the slot flipped with AT ALL.

For someone quoting so many of my posts (and ignoring everything else that went on in the meanwhile) you sure do a lousy job properly reading any of it.

Just because I mistook the name petra for the effect of the oracle doesnt mean it changes anything in my reads - since NOONE knew up front what wonder sondam had since it wasnt claimed.

Also for someone that continues to scumread me (apparently) you sure keep adressing me as if you know im town.

[Vecna]

Like I don't think vecna is scum simply because it would take 4 scum and PV is obv scum so like someone in that list has to be Town so Vecna maybe? But Vecna is doing pure shit and Vecna isn't that bad as Town from PyP.

Wtf?

I wasnt town in PYP, this is the second time you state that while I was the scum mastermind that won us the game.

You have no town meta on me. You just keep fabricating nonsense to discredit me.

[Vecna]

@Vecna: I didn't forget, they were just the first thing to come to mind.

Ali, Dave, Ceasar, and Math are perfect candidates for that Wonder.

......Unless you can change the first post I am a horrible candidate as I have Stonehenge. It's not paying attention like this that makes me think you're scum.

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Vecna]

I'm disturbed by the amount of people who have completely ignored Vecna's claim.

Figuring out what you're talking about would take scanning a 5 page iso.

Or just reading the last 10 pages of the game and looking for the very big letters.

At any rate it doesnt matter. I was obv-town before the claim, and the claim wasnt intended to make me more obv-town.

[Vecna]

Cloud what the fuck are your reads I am losing my mind in this game and you're now my only locktown.

im looking at leon/gin/luv
people that im still trying to sort are max/pine and in a lesser extent alibae
my towns are vec, nero and you. Math is a townlean but if im wrong on a townread its prob this one

anything else is null, yuri is town for d1

I'm disturbed by the amount of people who have completely ignored Vecna's claim.

My lockscums are MathBlade and Notice. I'm still SRing Leonshade and LUV. Aslan is like a strong scumlean. My reads on LUV and Aslan are tied together a little, i.e., if one is scum they're both scum. LUV and Math's interactions have seemed vaguely SvS.

Notice and Math have both done things that are like wildly out of character for them, and some subtler things are missing too.

Mathblade is locktown through play.
Alisae is locktown through Yume meta and through his own play not being anything like his scum play, AND through the towntell which Alisae has NEVER ONCE done as scum. While he doesn't

always

do it as town, he has NEVER done it as scum, and that's the important thing. Every single time he has done it he has been town, and you know this.
LUV is town as well.
Not to mention that you also should know that I'm town here given you've always come around when we both have been.

Now drop your fake ass reads and play the fucking game if you're town because you have actually managed to successfully destroy my townread on your slot by pushing these reads as real. This is easily the most bullshit I have ever seen come from a slot and there's no way that flips town if you're serious on it. If you're not scum, the wifom is fucking not helping and you need to pull your fucking head in. There is ZERO chance of Alisae being scum here and you fucking know it.

Full readslist of the game please.

And more than 2 posts / phase would be wonderfull.

[Vecna]

I wish people would actually talk about Vecna's claim instead of just pretending it didn't even happen because I have nfc how to read it.

Everyone realized its obvious im town. Get with the program. Also why sheep Ceasar? Someone you were scumreading before and trying to wagon less than one game-day ago?

As for notice's post;

so the "yume-tell" is purely activity based? Ill admit ive played with her as scum where she just tried to lurk through, but how can you be so sure that Ali didnt just tell her to step up the posting? Also, the yume head got replaced because it couldnt stick to activity levels didnt it? What makes you so sure Ali didnt just tell her to replace out so the activity thing wouldnt cast suspicion on them?

Also even if youre right about Math and Ali, it still doesnt mean it cant be a notice + creature team. Im not convinced about your creature scummeta since he does that stuff as town just as well. Be more specific please because im not seeing any strong indication of allignment or a difference in playstyles.

[Vecna]

Creature, just tell us who you roleblocked please

[Vecna]

VOTE: GORKINGTON

[Vecna]

How is my claim bad or confusing?

Scum probably the wonder that hides information when they nightkill someone.

There is a wonder that could mess with investigation results from town. I took it to prevent scum from abusing it.

If I die with that wonder without town knowing that (and the flip information is hidden), they will always remain slightly paranoid that their investigation results were tampered with. I suspect that is why scum tried to kill me last night and I was doc saved. This is also why I asked to be doc-saved yesterday, because it was a predictable thing to do.

I took the wonder to deny it to scum. Im telling you I have the wonder so that you can 100% trust all your investigative outcomes. I will not use the wonder.

Now scum has to choose to kill me knowing I have a useless wonder to town, OR they have to let me live and focus on finding our actual powerful wonders.

And sorry if me harping on that im obv-town makes you paranoid. But I think its fairly straight forward to realize I am factually the most townread person in the game, whether you agree with it or not. If you actually think id be able to pull this play off as scum then I guess ill take it as a compliment.

[Vecna]

Yeah guess I shouldve done it properly straight away, at least your correct that noone else asking about it is a bit strange.

[Vecna]

Im really on the fence with this Leonshade vs Gorkington thing btw. Theyre both attacking eaachother now and only interacting with eachother while both are under large ammounts of suspicion.

Are their interactions SvT or SvS you think Nancy?

[Vecna]

Im like 90% sure its not TvT. Also if Gorkington is Scum it looks pretty bad on notice yet again (but then again that line where he townread the slot....). Also the fact he keeps attacking me, calling me bad-town and whatnot is kind of annoying as well, especially since the slot has no scumreads that theyre pushing themselves.

That reminds me that the Yuri slot still had that weird thing going on D1, and it never got resolved and the slot has been AFK ever since, not doing shit.

[Vecna]

Also I really hope whoever has the double investigative wonder can sort out the Alisae slot. I really just dont see how its town, but everyone and their mother keeps telling me how wrong I am.....

[Vecna]

I wish this suspicion of the LUV slot would just go away.

People want me to stop scumreading the Alisae slot

A bunch of people asked me to ignore the Davesaz slot and I complied.

Im even willing to not lynch Leonshade today as a favour to mathblade's read....

but i'd wish people would just leave alone LUV and focus elsewhere as a gesture towards me.

[Vecna]

Yeah I also have plenty of meta with Alisae, Math - and my conclusions are the direct opposite.

[Vecna]

Yeah I also have plenty of meta with Alisae, Math - and my conclusions are the direct opposite.

So do I and a recent game where I caught them as scum.

Scum wouldn't do <redacted>.

However I could see you nancy Gorkington.

And you could see this how given all the recent developments? Because I feel this is you ignoring pretty much everything that has been actually happening. Tell me, why would I claim my wonder in the way I did as scum?

[Vecna]

How about you post a list of your -actual- reads without wifom?

And then tell me which of your posts containing reads, IN THE PAST, were real reads.

I want to be able to follow your real progression of reads. Testing people and pushing for a reaction is fine. Being completely unaccountable for everything you say, or every read you got is not. We already have one such person in this game (ceasar) and that annoyance is more than enough.

Fortunately I have my PT to keep a track of this without stumbling through my ISO.

First:

Aslan

Nero Cain

Yuri

MathBlade

Leonshade

Elbirn

Creature

Brian Skies

Caesar Wills It

Lil Uzi Vert

Vecna

ssbm_Kyouko

davesaz

Maxous

Sondam

NoticeMeSenpai

(I actually wasn't TRing Notice of my own volition, Aslan just told me to sheep their read and I did.)

Somewhere in the middle:

Aslan

Nero Cain

Yuri

MathBlade

Leonshade

Elbirn

Creature

Brian Skies

Caesar Wills It

Lil Uzi Vert

Vecna

ssbm_Kyouko

davesaz

Maxous

Sondam

NoticeMeSenpai

Now:
{Brian, Caesar, CK, PV, Vecna}
{davesaz, Maxous, Nero}
{Creature, KidAmn}
{Aslan, Math, Notice, Gorkington}
{Leonshade, LUV}

But they're currently fluctuating a little, I need time to re-establish and get a better feel for the gamestate. Rereading is in order (lol).

So the jumps on Nero and Yuri? What caused those?

[Vecna]

proddodging, catching up and posting tomorrow.

[Vecna]

Vecna catch-up starting:

Brian is town because of Drixx.

I replaced in like 200 pages ago, you can't still be holding onto this.

VERY MUCH this. This is total bullshit. Drixx didnt do shit to be town. The replacement though, has done a lot more to be town (although im still not completely sold on the idea)

Disgustingly light, I know, but it's what I have.

davesaz
Vecna (matches to Code Geass)
MathBlade (reads and actions make sense to me)
Creature (I doubt he could pull this off as scum)
Maxous (kinda the opposite of Creature, and I've seen him be very terse as town)
-- large gap --
Brian Skies
Caesar Wills It
Nero Cain (kinda probing at the kind of things that I usually expect)
-- small gap -- for the most part I don't have much experience reading people below this line
Alisae
nancy
CloudKicker
-- small gap --
Lil Uzi Vert
NoticeMeSenpai
KidAmn (can't remember which slot this is so this could be hilariously wrong)
Leonshade
Gorkington (can't remember which slot this is so this could be hilariously wrong)

A few things; Creature COULD pull it off as scum. Math's scumreads me, how do you feel about that? Arent you missing his normal snide tunneling? Maxous read; Dont you feel he plays different here from PYP?

Id really like some more in-depth reasoning on a bunch of these if you could, but thanks for the effort i guess.

[Vecna]

Brian is town because of Drixx.

I replaced in like 200 pages ago, you can't still be holding onto this.

Until someone explains why Drixx would do the things Drixx did as scum you could post bat shit insane reads and streak down the thread naked and I wouldn't give a fuck. Pretty much you'd have to scum claim for me to scumread you. To me you're an innocent child. I see no reason further to put down Brian is town because blah blah blah when you're practically an innocent child due to your predecessor. Game has too much clutter as it is.

This has been done about 17 times already. And im not exhagerating.

I just don't see Math being town here. I don't care about all the AtE or whatever you think it was doing with his sister. His Vecna push is questionable at best and his interactions with PV the previous day are so slimy. Not to mention he keeps trying to ride on the back of 'I would never do that with my sister' instead of, you know, being 'obvtown' like he constantly claims to be.

1) I am a they.
2) I am obvtown get over it. I'm trying to work with people but I'm not changing word choice etc for it. People can be obvTown to me and not be obvTown to everyone else.
3) Ask what questions you like then move on because we have scum to lynch and I'm not it and I want you to be able to see I'm town.

Youre not obv-towning at all, sorry. Also town-math doesnt keep repeating this so im not sure why you are right now.

I wish people would actually talk about Vecna's claim instead of just pretending it didn't even happen because I have nfc how to read it.

Vecna's partner ^

I'll give everyone a hint: claiming that wonder benefits him as scum more than town there. This is trying to push people to look back at Vecna claiming he's obvtown when he's not and look at his reasoning for it to have someone else push it as a town thing when it's the furthest thing possible.

LOL! youre back to scumreading me again all of a sudden? what happened to "vecna as scum would never ever break up the DEO"? No longer convenient now that youre being scumread?

Also, claiming that wonder before knowing the tracker died is retarded as scum. Good luck trying to reason yourself against that. Yes I very blatantly claimed yesterday already I was gnona build it to deny it to scum. But if you wanna pretend you think I took it just to wifom myself safe of tracker investigations, be my guest I guess. It even makes sense somewhat since I could probably be doing the nightkills safely for the rest of the game, but sadly for you you didnt use that piece of premium reasoning (which is now copyrighted by me, vecna, you'll have to come up with your own again). At any rate, in a world with roleblockers this still is terrible play. Im not a terrible player when it comes to these types of decisions as scum.

In the offchance youre right about Nancy however, I do find you being her partner here plausible for obvious reasons. You were the one snapping on him for not noticing the Ali town-thing. You snapped on him here because he made it obvious (if scum) that he wanted my claim discredited. Theres a lot more going on in this game, where for some reason youre very much focussed on nancy, while you pretty much only have had 3 other reads here.

I am fairly certain that Titus has used hydra diss as a means to gain sympathy before and even if they weren't trying to Math-Titus fighting over to claim or not to claim doesn't make them town.

I guarantee you that Math doesn't do this as scum. They have a lot of pride in their scum game and ability to get by without resorting to cheap tactics, and on top of that they don't continue to AtE about it, as I outlined in my post last night.

Even if you believe Titus would, Math wouldn't.

Yes, yes, you continue to white-knight Math - and youre probably right here. The fact remains youre buddying the slot that is attacking your attackers. Quite the convenient circle-assistance for self-preservation as scum.

Nero Cain
KidAmn
CloudKicker

but I only trust threads of Nero Cain.

Why the Yuri slot?

I like his posts, thought the Yuri wagon was dumb and I don't think all the useless slots can be scum.

Not sure im buying this.

like guys, I'm telling you that if I were scum I'd kill LUV or Alisae so be sure to kill those players to frame me.

Thats some top-level wifom, or pretty good townline.

[Vecna]

Maxous feels very similar to PYP Double Deck. (I hope that prebuilt ISO link works, first time trying that)

Hmmm not sure I agree with this at all. Suspicion growing slightly again.

It's Gorkington.

Good I guess. Id like you to roleblock ME tonight creature. Removes the possibility youre roleblocking our investigative wonder and it allows me to confirm your RB claim while at the same time it makes town realize im really not intending to use my wonder. Thoughts?

[Vecna]

Glork, do you think Creature genuinely believes his roleblock of you stopped the kill? Do you think everyone who voted after Creature (being LUV and Alisae) believes in that being a hard guilty?
What did you think of Nero and Alisae's back and forth earlier where they voted you then Nero switched to Alisae?
What do you think of Vecna, MathBlade, and Leonshade all voting you together before Creature outed the roleblock?

What do YOU think of any of these? At any rate I did predict the roleblock was in 4 people due to a sudden increase of hard 1v1's popping up after the RB announcement. If gorkington is scum, Id feel quite safe thinking the same about Leonshade. I hard-think theres at least 1 scum in the 2, and 2 is not at all unlikely.

At any rate, ive been suspicious of the slot ever since D1. Gin made it worse. Gork made it even worse. And the fact you suddenly popped in to TOWNREAD the slot for completely ugly reasons made it look worse as well.

[Vecna]

i ask anyone to seriously look into how leon has been engaging me so far this cycle and tell me with a straight face that that seems like someone who is trying to sort someone vs someone who is literally just trying to stay alive by finding reasons to call someone scum.

and mathblade totally discrediting that argument by focusing on the tone of my posts over the content feels fucking garbage too.

This is exactly how id expect Gork to post if the leon vs gork is SvS.

im entirely willing to own up to my content being kind of shit so far.
i was trying out something that i usually do with my replacement game, but i dont have the energy for it anymore and i got really demotivated trying to do it here.

and i think scum saw me as an opportunity to jump on as an easy lynch.

im not sure if the scum is faking a claim they know they can get away with or if theyre just trying to take advantage of my general lack of investment in this game so far/my predecessor's posting.
but i would be fucking shocked if there werent at least two scum in leonshade, mathblade, cloudkicker and creature.

p-edit: im feeling actually kind of good atm.
if im still feeling this good tomorrow i promise to give more specific and comprehensive and tangible thoughts on things.
but i should really probably sleep or i'll die tomorrow q.q

pp-edit: gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
one sec.

Your assesment here probably isnt wrong, especially if were wrong on you (which I still doubt).

Blatant prod dodge after friendly warning from mod before the real prod happens. State of emergency blizzard in central New York. We got 25 inches in 16 hours today. Been snow fighting and hunkering down with loved ones all day. Will post meaningfully and in character in the morning. It's expected to snow all night and through tomorrow. Wife already has her second snow day in a row called.

You guys sure have it rough there every year man, good luck.

Sondam (9):

Vecna

, Creature,

Nero Cain

,

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

, Caesar Wills It, Brian Skies,

Leonshade

,

Sondam

,

Lil Uzi Vert

Lets not forget that mariar was onto leon as well

Leon is a very strong townread. MariaR's reads I feel were crap.

Reflect on this read, knowing that Leonshade is a very good player that can easily fake town-play. Dont be surface level here, because youre also attributing some godlike-scumplay skills to me for thinking im scum here, so apply that shit to Leonshade as well please (even though I feel what he's shown so far this game isnt that amazing at all, allthough he clearly was towntelling a bunch d1).

tbh PV.
I have no idea myself.

I suppose I'll have to go back and read it.

It seems I missed the Gorkington catcup post. When did day4 start?

Oh and this is PV scum FYI. I think this post is a scum tell for PV I feel it in my gut based on prior games.

Scum nk'ing one of their own makes no sense given PV's participation. They havent abused the treestump at all so this opinion is very moot atm. It makes no difference is PV is scum since he's not doing anything or directing us anywhere. At this point actually, its almost sad it didnt go to Drixx.

[Vecna]

Math the next post you say where PV is scum I'll just policy lynch you I don't even care anymore.
The joke is old and you need to stop running off of OMGUS for that read because scum decided to use their factional kill on PV for NO REASON!
No seriously, stop.

If you think the slot is scum for some ungodly reason then just ignore it. You're not getting anywhere trying to plant the idea that PV is scum.

Atta boy

I am somewhat willing to eat my Dave read since yeah, this doesn't exactly look like Gitsou Dave. Though I still have a hard time seeing town from his posting. They are mostly promises of future content and what little "content" there is is hollow fleshed out statements.

Its true, im still not getting the usual town-pings either. Even though it has to be said that he does this non-posting shit as town all the time. If he's scum someone definately told him to just post less to live up to that.

Btw, scum getting Alhambra equals scum

Like. Creature got the rb wonder, but he says this?
I am really confused here.

Interesting point. Maybe my scumread on you is lessening again, since im not sure you'd be paying this much attention to detail as scum (unless youre scum teammates with creature I guess). Maybe its just a weird breadcrumb of sorts?

How about this.
LUV/Vecna/Leon/KidAmn/nancy
gg thanks for playing.

Your earlier posts really didnt indicate a scumread on me at all. What changed?

Like, here's where I at with my reads.
{PV, Nero, Math, Maxous, Creature, Brian, BaeReed}
{Gork, Dave}
{Cloudie}
{KidAmn, Leon, LUV, nancy, Vecna}

Like, wth - you were just voting for Gorkington but now he's suddenly a townread? How come youre not trying to do anything against me if youre scumreading me? Why were you appealing to me earlier for tunneling you? These actions youre having here literally make zero sense to me. I know how you've engaged me in Code geass while you were actually scumreading me. Wheres the venom against me, the attacks, the call-outs of suspicion for [reasons]?

On a scale of 1-10 (1 low 10 high) how offended will people be if I start typing up my notes from my read through?

It's gonna be slow

and it's gonna be D2 onward to minimise the amount of spam.

Like this is really the only kinda scummy post to me. He shouldn't be asking if he can post his notes and then, like on one hand I can more than understand him not wanting to read d1 but D1

IS

the most important day so not reading it is not real pro-town. The bolded could MAAAAAYYYYBBBBEEEE be an excuse for lurking it out but there's also truth in it. And if Yuri was scum who are Yuri's scumbuddies that tipped the scales in favor of a not Yuri wagon?

Why do you think this is the case? Theres only been two really fast wagons this game, Yuro and Sondam. The rest were all slow as shit. What if Yuri is just scum and his teammates were hardcore bussing early because they thought the slot was obviously doomed? Town wagons have all gone slower (except Sondam).

I'm also kinda in the same view that its funny that scum would send Gork to do a kill. And Gork being the leading wagon when Creature claimed seems potentially opportunistic.

He already was the leading wagon before....

but I mean, I just can't shake Dave scum. I still think Alisae going "oh I'm blaming ABR for ruining town cohesion and not lynching Yuri" was one of the more stupid things said this game and both LUV and Dave going "yea us too!" makes me think that there has to be atleast one scum in that threesome.

Blaming him for not lynching Yuri might be false, but we definately had some nice cohesion going on untill ABR jumped in. I honestly liked the DEO slot more day1 than im liking math right now. I also shared the sentiment that he was being a disturbing force on purpose, by design, so im not sure sure those reasons are bad. Blindly sheeping on it is fine for scum ofcourse, but id say its hard to distinguish between the two.

Spoiler: Important VCs. From the time Yuri was wagoned to the end of the Day 1 lynch.

Lynch Vote 1.32

Yuri (9):

Lil Uzi Vert, Akane and Nebby, Vecna, Spiffeh, beeboy, Fro99er, The DEO, Nero Cain, Leonshade

beeboy (4):

ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV, Yuri, Albert B. Rampage

Vecna (2):

Caesar Wills It, NoticeMeSenpai

davesaz (1):

Creature

Sondam (1):

Drixx

ssbm_Kyouko (1):

Maxous

NoticeMeSenpai (1):

Elbirn

Not Voting (2):

davesaz, Sondam

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to to lynch.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-02-21 10:05:30), at which point we will default to no lynch.

Lynch Vote 1.49

beeboy (11):

ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV, Spiffeh, Elbirn, Albert B. Rampage, Fro99er, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Leonshade, Drixx, Yuri

Albert B. Rampage (5):

Lil Uzi Vert, Vecna, The DEO, beeboy, Caesar Wills It

Vecna (1):

NoticeMeSenpai

Yuri (1):

Nero Cain

Lil Uzi Vert (1):

Sondam

Creature (1):

Maxous

Not Voting (1):

davesaz

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to to lynch.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-02-21 10:05:30), at which point we will default to no lynch.

These are what these VCs tell me.
Basicly these VCs tell me that Yuri was a lynch that scum really did not want, so they were forced to bus.
But then once ABR did things, scum found an excuse to hop off of Yuri and either go on ABR or Vecna, which ever one they picked.
You can tell this just by how slowly but surely Yuri went from 9-10 votes to 1.

Leonshade + Gork/Elbirn + Notice + Ceasar still seems like a mightily likely scumteam to me looking at the progression here. Ceasar could be replaced with Yuri as well (or him being the 5th).

HOLY FUCK GORK IS CLEARLY A MISLYNCH

How is it "obviously" a mislynch?

I told ya I would lynch my rb target regardless.

Let's see.
Someone with the Great Wall is probably out there.
There are also 2 FUCKING DOCTORS.

So why is Gorkington town?

I expect far more of myself than what I'm doing here. If I wasn't so time poor I'd be able to straighten out my reads and grok the PoE on this but I am and it's frustrating.

Town

[Vecna]

Why not? He might very well be the person that has that wonder that hides the flip info.....At any rate im definately willing to take the gamble that we lynch to get rid of that wonder today.

[Vecna]

Meh I dont care for it. Have been scumreading the slot for the longest of times, and if creature states it was roleblocked, and it coincides with a no-kill im pretty happy to lynch it.

And no, even if the no-kill was actually a doc-save the doc should just sit back and let us do this lynch (imo)

[Vecna]

mayhaps, I just think 9/10 times any scumteam is not going to trot out a heavily scumread player. Yes, you are correct that roles can affect that logic but I still think my point is solid.

Also, why not have the heavily scumread do it thats likely going to die at some point anyway? Better than to risk your more solidly hidden person (even though theyre ofcourse also less likely to be roleblocked).

[Vecna]

No nero, I didnt - im just responding to your concerns.

[Vecna]

Hammer-hammer-hammer-hammer

[Vecna]

Like, wth - you were just voting for Gorkington but now he's suddenly a townread? How come youre not trying to do anything against me if youre scumreading me? Why were you appealing to me earlier for tunneling you? These actions youre having here literally make zero sense to me. I know how you've engaged me in Code geass while you were actually scumreading me. Wheres the venom against me, the attacks, the call-outs of suspicion for [reasons]?

His tone and his posts and his response really seemed towny.
Not really trying to do much because Yuri's flip is the flip of interest.
And for some reason I got tunneled on you like a mad scientist because NC was like "Hmmmmm, Vecna could be bussing off the wagon." "hmmmm, Vecna doesn't seem like how he was playing in deathnote" and then I stopped when NC was like "Hmmmmmm, Vecna seems to be aware of issues he just doesn't really want to talk about them and that's fine."
This game is a little similar to Code:Geass for me besides alignment, I wonder if you can get what I'm getting at?

Well I can interpret this in a few ways, but I think I know what you mean.

[Vecna]

Ill take a cookie.

[Vecna]

Even though I still dont see how that means we shouldnt wagon Gorkington here.

[Vecna]

Is Gorkington your current or past receiver of cookies? I was under the impression he wasnt.

[Vecna]

WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE LYNCHING GORKINGTON

HE IS TOWN

HOLY FUCK THIS TOWN IS FUCKING HORRIBLE

What reasons do you have for saying this?

[Vecna]

VOTE: Gorkington

nancy is giving me the heebie jeebies. No time to explain but Gork is also scum so....

my read on mathblade is pretty linked with my leonshade read.

i think the way his focus on me developed was potentially very opportunistic in terms of the timing of my focus going towards leonshade and the subsequent hardpush on me being scum, as well as the hesitance to actually commit to pushing there until the leonshade wagon was actually kind of failing.

i think one of the things i feel worst about with so many of these people who have called me scum is that SO SO SO many of them claimed i was obviously scum throughout my early play, but instead decided to focus elsewhere, especially while leonshade wagon was happening.

like, i just cant help but feel like some of it must have been opportunism.

i especially feel bad about math/leon pushes together because they use very very similar reasoning.
in a way that almost makes me feel like there was discussion on how to frame pushing me.

beyond that, i dont really see incredibly convincing reasoning for why leonshade has mathblade in his toptier and mathblade is constantly defending leonshade and calling him obvtown but doesnt seem to supply reasons while doing so while leonshade wagon is happening?
it just seems weird to me that he wouldnt try to convince people by saying actual reasons that he was scum vs just saying over and over again that hes town and trying to push nero who was clearly not going to happen? im just not sure if i see how that intention works.

with math theres also this really strange justification for scumreading me of "PV is scum and PV/Gork are scumbuddies"
and i just dont really get it?
like.
that was one of the first things that stood out to me this game.
that PV has like.. 200+ posts, ive only ever seen PVscum lurk and math is calling him scum?
ive asked for reasoning on this and i never got it.
and theres a lame part of me that feels like math is pushing me as an excuse to not have to rehash that [but thats probably not a good point zzz].

in terms of general thoughts on math im kind of confused as to why hes still alive?
scum grabbing vig to try and justify mathblade's claim being alive this game seems pretty plausible to me.
i havent really looked into what people have been talking about here so i would be interested in whether this was talked about at some point/if people could link me to where it was talked about so i dont waste too much time speccing over something thats probably already been talked about at some point.

in summary i just get bad vibes about the timing and justification of his scumread on me in terms of how it relates to leon who is really really likely scum and his PVread and justification of scumreading me via his PVread feels wonky and the role stuff kind of pings me too.

people townreading mathblade should talk to me like im 12 about it.

p-edit: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
please dont take the wind out of my sails just as im getting going.
at least not with generic shit like "your post sucks".
i dont think you understand how demotivating that in particular is for me.
please dont :/

There is one good point being made here actually:

Math HARD townreads Leonshade for his D1/D2 play.......Yet Leonshades reads are an EXACT copy of my reads for those entire day. He's constantly pushing the same targets and having the same reads.

Yet im a hard scumread off Mathblade.

The sense there is pretty absent, even though thats not so surprising I guess.

[Vecna]

can you link me specific posts that you feel wouldnt be fakeable by them in terms of dissonance?

p-edit: ty, you honestly have no idea how much i appreciate it after feeling shut down so much

Being shut down so much? You didnt exactly do a lot so far this game, so this sentiment feels fake.

[Vecna]

Explain to me why Gork is town when he makes up clear bullshit about me and can't be bothered to gender me correctly. I don't see it.

I am sick and tired of repeating myself and making cases that get ignored. I simply state my reads and that works better.

Gork's theory of scum grabbing vig he is pitching to try to make me sound scum versus believing it. If he was actually thinking and hunting he would say if scum picked up vig it would be for the extra kill. However what is probably more likely is that town picked up vig and scum probably picked up a doc. Only reason I can think of as to why I am still alive.

Because this wagon on him is shit and because he's genuinely trying to solve the game. Because neither he nor his preds have done anything warranting a scumread. I don't think you've stated good reasons to scumread someone here.

Thats simply not true, him and his predecessors have done a fair ammount of stuff that could warrant such.

[Vecna]

I just don't see Math being town here. I don't care about all the AtE or whatever you think it was doing with his sister. His Vecna push is questionable at best and his interactions with PV the previous day are so slimy. Not to mention he keeps trying to ride on the back of 'I would never do that with my sister' instead of, you know, being 'obvtown' like he constantly claims to be.

1) I am a they.
2) I am obvtown get over it. I'm trying to work with people but I'm not changing word choice etc for it. People can be obvTown to me and not be obvTown to everyone else.
3) Ask what questions you like then move on because we have scum to lynch and I'm not it and I want you to be able to see I'm town.

It's more it demonstrates a clear, not reading posts of someone you supposedly scumread when I mentioned it before.

As painful as it is it's the same problem I have with LUV. Just not paying attention and some things are so easily correctable.

Furthermore your post is written like a house of cards and doesn't have a firm foundation of belief. If it was actually a valid scumread you'd react differently.

Now I could take your entire post, rip it to shreds, and then have mountains more posts but people are already complaining about how unwieldy the thread is. Demonstrating the obvious (like your argument is clear shit) or repeating things (e.g. why PV is scum.) is not beneficial. No one has given me a reason to townread what multiple people (Vecna being one) called a scumclaim. PV is also demonstrating that he isn't engaging with clear thought in the thread.

The problem is you aren't reading posts for hunting you're reading them to see what argument you could make.

If town wouldve vigged PV, they would stated so by now because their wonder was useless.

If scum wouldve wasted their NK to kill one of their own, they would be using the treestump a hell of a lot more to influence us.

PV = town, drop this crap.

[Vecna]

nancy I'm town. I've just been lost since ABR flipped town and now Sondam.

I'm rarely seen in this state because as scum I'm usually a lot more town read then this and faking engagement and when I'm town and on roll via either calling a read right or strongly believing in a read I'm a lot more engaged. I just don't have anything to give other than sheep those who I think are town. I don't have the will to reread and real time interactions just get drowned out by noise. Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely right but it's such a struggle to get a wagon going on anyone and town has had no signs of teamwork since the middle of Day 1.

Ugh, this is the first type of post from LUV that mirrors his scumplay in PYP. also a pretty poor image of his own scumplay.

[Vecna]

Oh come on, you know I don't do those. Can I just meet you halfway?

I'm meeting you halfway. As always, we'll go in alphabetical order.

Spoiler: Reads

Cloud:

I'm scum reading Cloud because of his discrediting of me and his voting early on. He was hounding the people he voted for in Vecna and Notice early on to acknowledge his votes for them yet he didn't provide any real reasoning for why he was scum reading them. It smelled like scum trying to turn around the perception of his slot by trying to look town. Later on, I've come to find that I haven't liked any of his votes he's casted. They're either with little to no reasoning or for NAI reasons. His focus on Leon bothers me the most because he's just putting Leon in some sort of box and saying you fit without really analyzing any of the motivations of the posts he finds to be textbook scum.

Gork:

I'm scum reading Gork because I town read Creature and I don't see him being the time to gambit like this as scum in this position. I'm also in very much agreement with his theory on this slot being the one to have attempt to kill Night 3.

KidAmn:

My scum read on this slot mostly comes from his predecessor, Yuri. I hate scum reading people based on their predecessor but I was scum reading Yuri hard and I just can't let it go at this point. Sadly, Kid hasn't done anything to redeem the slot. Part of this isn't his fault per say due to the game being 400+ pages and the amount of time to read and properly digest it all will probably take anywhere from 2 weeks to a month but we're at Day 4 now and without a flip. Shit is what it is. I haven't like Kid's interactions with Ali. It felt more like trying to chastise him rather than trying to talk through each point and explain why he should be looking else where.

Maxous:

Probably my second weakest scum read here. I just really don't like how he was sort of role fishing by demanding I build a Wonder today to prove I haven't attempted to build any. He should know as well as I do that there is no way for me to actually prove that I built a Wonder and the Wonders that are available to build today, specifically the neighborhood one, is practically allowing him to confirm me as essentially a mason to scum.

nancy:

This scum read mostly came from your predecessor, Spiffy. I didn't like Spiffy tunneling Bee on outdated meta and the rest of his reasoning for his other scum reads were very weak. I saw him as a potential partner to the Yuri slot because of his constant derailing of the Yuri wagon. Now, what Spiffy has done is peanuts to what you have done. I understand that you play the game very differently than I do. The problem is that is there was a line that you've crossed. At least for me, and maybe for others as well. It's perfectly fine to use meta as a small part of a read but isn't fine to completely clear someone or declare someone as confirmed scum because of not only how hard of a tool it is to actually use, but simply how unreliable it is. VCA, all bias aside, is generally accepted to be a tool to use as a small part of a read, but again not to completely clear someone or to declare someone as confirmed scum. You've used both these tools to consistently give out very strong reads and I think that is more indicative to come from scum than town.

Notice:

Outside of the slip which I've gone over in detail earlier and not going to really bring up now because it will just lead to more noise, there hasn't been much to go off of here. However, there is something indeed strange about them, nancy, and Ali. I don't know if it is due to personal issues or what but it is something that I have in my notes that I felt was worth bringing up here in case one of them do flip scum. Mainly the clear of Ali off a tell. Now I've played various games with Ali and I'm willing to argue that he's much more of a fast learner than people give him credit for. I think there is no real tell for Ali yet but there could be as he gets more time in this site. Other than that, I didn't really like their vote or push on Maxous.

--

As to why I scum read Sondam, I found their read on me fake for reasons that I'm not going to go over right now and their hop on ABR. I don't recall any games of me quick hammering but again, the circumstances.

But then again, this is something he never ever was able to produce as scum.

[Vecna]

help I'm going insane.
Oh wait brb going to case yuri

Hmmmm I think I just realized what you were trying to tell me before. But even then, can you be so sure?

[Vecna]

Ok here's the thing, no sane scum team would send Glork to do the kill. Not unless they were all in an awful position, anyway, and considering how the game has been going I wouldn't exactly think that'd be true. They would likely know town had the roleblocker by virtue of not having it themselves, and you'd send your most townread in that case given Sondam's flip because there's literally no reason not to. A roleblocker is going to try to not be hitting the townread players because they could have chichen itza or something.

There, reasoning devoid of reads as to why the rb on Glork very likely was not the reason for the no kill. If anything that rb target proves it was a doc protect that stopped the kill.

Anyway, LUV, why are you sure about Vecna being town?

[Vecna]

btw Vecna what's your read on me?

It could literally go both ways. Im highly suspicious of everyone stating your town because of tone/meta. I dont agree with those assesments, because I still feel theyre different here from what ive seen in our past games.

Im not saying it means youre scum, since I havent seen a scum Alisae yet. It means im suspicious. This suspicion is increased because of the way youre continuously townreading NOTICE, while there is no reason for it. You stated Notice is obv-town because of meta, yet I did the full meta-dive and I do not see the resemblance to his usual town-play.

Theres obviously plenty of stuff that works in your benefit as well. However, youre not a townread for me. I believe you'd be able to fake this as scum. Your unwillingness to engage me several times throughout the game when I had very valid questions also really annoyed me.

[Vecna]

like I realize that Nancy/Math/Dave/Gork are all either outright bussing/definding or pushing on each other and me suggesting that they are scum together surely makes me look crazy but not a single one of them have ANY pro-town play and they all have history, well maybe mostly Nancy and Math, as Nancy's connections with Dave/Gork are just screaming that they are mislynches.

Nancy and elbrin had some pro-town play. Elbrin had some good observations about Notice Day1 that vibed very well with mine. I still had this little tingle back then that it couldve been faked though. It seemed almost too well thought out at times, too calculated. Elbrin also kept harping on when I didnt wanna answer a question of his just yet.

[Vecna]

nancy is singel handedly somewhat ruining the game by herself, shes twisting all her reads on a town preflip from what is most likely a mefia

exactly. This is scum being purposely chaotic, not town just being bad.

And in your experience, this is what scum does? Because I really dont think so.

[Vecna]

The way I see it right now:

If Glork flips town, Creature gets lynched tomorrow
If Leon flips town, one of Cloud or Glork get lynched tomorrow
If Ceasar flips town, nothing learned
If Dave flips town, nothing learned
If I'm lynched, nothing is learned

a typical luv scumpost.

Really? Can you link me to any of the games where he played scum and made such comments? Didnt see _ANYTHING_ like it in PYP.

[Vecna]

Why is Leon scum again?

Why is he town?
This is the ultimate question.

Read a bunch of my posts on the topic, I explained it very thoroughly on a number of occasions. I feel I have a pretty solid lock on the type of play that goes on with Luv with both allignments based on this and our past game. The way of thinking and approaching everything, and the way in which he doesnt give a shit about anything this game is completely different in every regard.

[Vecna]

I want to lynch Leonshade because if it flips red then Notice and Caesar are conftown.

What? Why?

Explain this to me, because Leonshade's scumread by Ceasar has felt very artifical along the lines of "I cant only have my vecna scumread for the rest of the game, so ill just scumread a teammate".

[Vecna]

LUV isn't untouchable, but I think there's enough of a chance he's Town that I don't want to lynch it right now.

Furthermore, Notice's most recent post reads to me like "We didn't send Gork to do the nightkill so he's caught for wrong reasons".

Lol.

Yeah this is scum, and was whiteknighting Glork.
There's no way nancy gets this SO FUCKING WRONG as town after everything I've said.

I feel the exact same way, and im town. So I can totally see him getting it like that. And we only have your word to tell us its wrong, but your actions really arent reflecting it very much.

All you do this game is defend a bunch of people. Youre not scumreading anyone or hunting for anyone at all. You dont have a natural progression in scumreads. none that I remember at least.

[Vecna]

Wasn't WWE multiball?

Leonshade is tonally different from all his Town games.

His tone is rather similair as scum and town from what ive seen of his different Iso's. Just as town he's very active to be solving the game, ive been totally missing that so far this game except his day1 and a little of his day2. I was townreading him for quite a long time, since we again had the exact same reads at certain times of the games (and this was the very same in Code Geass where we solved the game together).

[Vecna]

though I might as well post this here....

bought the Civ humble bundle pack so I have spare keys for Civ 3, Civ 5 and Civ 5 Gods and Kings expansion pack.

^^^^
must have steam.

I can pm the key to Nahdia so she doesn't think I'm cheating. She already has the games so she won't steal them.

Dont have civ3 yet, wouldnt mind a key to that.

[Vecna]

Read my posts, I've already covered everything. Preventing a shit lynch from going through with 9 days left to deadline =! creating chaos. Notice & Caesar do not bus, ergo if they push a scum lynch they are not scum. I am the same.

Nancy and elbrin had some pro-town play. Elbrin had some good observations about Notice Day1 that vibed very well with mine. I still had this little tingle back then that it couldve been faked though. It seemed almost too well thought out at times, too calculated. Elbrin also kept harping on when I didnt wanna answer a question of his just yet.

You're going to lynch someone at this stage in the game because of a tingle? Because he pressed you with questions? Seriously? This is a badly-reasoned read, Vecna.

It was answering a point that stated none of them had ANY pro-town play. Im not saying thats the reason I want them lynched, not at all.

[Vecna]

nancy is singel handedly somewhat ruining the game by herself, shes twisting all her reads on a town preflip from what is most likely a mefia

exactly. This is scum being purposely chaotic, not town just being bad.

And in your experience, this is what scum does? Because I really dont think so.

I see 0% town motivation in WIFOMing her reads like that. Chaotic load mouthed scum is a thing. The fact you were in Death Note and you are acting like this doesn't happen seems fake as shit.

Youre mis-understanding my point. scum generally dont reason from this place where they have logic within logic for their actions.

Chaotic loudmouth-scum? Absolutely, they exist in droves.
People that fake reads to test for reactions, and be pissed off about it that we dont understand their way of doing things? Gets done a lot less id say?

[Vecna]

@notice; huh seems somehow the text I typed there got eaten along sending it, strange.

It stated something along the lines of; Nonsense, its very plausible, wonders dictate actions most likely for scum.

[Vecna]

Nero, maybe youre right - maybe im right.....Im not saying im always correct in these matters but from where im standing I just dont really see scum!Nancy.

We have plenty else to agree on though right?

What do you think of the possibility of Leon + Gork both being scum, seeing how theyve been attacking eachother ever since Creature did his announcement? Like I already predicted creature was gonna out that one of them was the roleblock since there was a very sudden 1v1 going on between the slots where they both started attacking eachother out of nowhere almost.

[Vecna]

Also, these last 2 Nancy posts right here just scream town to me.

And I actually agree with Nancy, after my stupid ass fight with Gerry it was rather obvious the slot was town. How it got speedlynched like that in my absence while I was over the top pissed I dont know.....at any rate, he was going to be scumreading me for the rest of the game so my point that he wouldve guaranteed lost us the game later on probably still is valid.

[Vecna]

Alisae, if youre around - I think it would really help if you give me a cookie tonight.

[Vecna]

Like whoever ends up getting that new neighbourhood wonder, ill probably be a part of it.

[Vecna]

Also LUV, at this point id almost suggest you build that town-confirmation wonder today. It would probably solve quite a lot of problems in this game. Id be fine with Nero or Notice having it as well I guess.

[Vecna]

Nancy, lets not go the route of personal insults ok? I know youre pissed, but it wont help in this situation. Let cooler heads prevail, Ive already gone on enough rampages (hi-hi) to account for the entire game.

[Vecna]

Really hoping KidAmn is gonna do that notes thing based on his rereads. Some actual content that allows us to townread that slot would be nice.

Nero, and others that townread the slot, can you provide us with any reasoning for that townread that doesnt use arguments based on Day1?

[Vecna]

jesus fuck I'm drunk

I hate how I have to be on a diff acc for this because I can't just phone post anyways...

anyway, vecna your shit is disingenuous, you pull this fucking "i'm so town that the only reason I am not being nightkilled is because i claimed a useless wonder" bullshit then try to say my reason for saying it's protown for you to claim that is scum motivated is something fucking convoluted as shit. you keep declaring yourself as obvtown which you very much are not and it's so LAMIST that it's obvious you're just trying to put across that feeling through repitition so people won't try to lynch you.

pedit: and you think scum would have a highly scumread player get that wonder why? please, do tell. That's fucking nonsense, you're full of shit, vecna.
pedit2: I can confirm nancy was asleep because I fucking was too and the moment I tried to submit a post to say to fucking stop was when the thread got lynched and I was fuming. Means the sondam lynch means nothing with regards to alignment. Her shit ass read on me however? Yeah, that's AI. Nancy doesn't scumread me nor aslan ever in this gamestate EVER. Not once. She's too smart for that.
pedit3: JESUS CHRIST IT WAS A DOC PROTECT NOT A ROLEBLOCK FUCKING STOP
pedit4: SONDAM WAS OBVTOWN BECAUSE OF META BUT EVEN IF NOT, EVEN IF THE ONLY THING YOU COUNTED WAS THIS GAME,

THE SELF VOTE WAS TOWN GIVING UP

.
pedit5: Aslan if you give vecna a cookie know I don't trust him as far as i could throw an elephant. That goes for literally everyone w/ a wonder. if we have town with chicken itza I want it to be me and vecna.
peditforeverandahalf: let me post...

Ill stop with the obv-town comments. My shit, however, is very far from disingenuous. Also, this doesnt sound like drunk-posting at all.

Ive already asked to be roleblocked, its the best course of action for town to make sure usefull wonders arent blocked, and for suspicions to be laid to rest (although even that probably wont work)

At any rate, feel free to remain suspicious - its only healthy if youre town, and you can be damn sure id indeed fool the shit out of you as scum. Youre not gonna get me lynched untill lylo anyways, so whatever. Your trust doesnt matter either to me, since ill continue to scumread you. If you wanna waste more energy here, feel free. Id like you to explain how it works though with your rock-solid townread on me that you had earlier based on the DEO stuff.

[Vecna]

You didnt think it was suspicious they were suddenly all over eachother?

[Vecna]

Dude its fine, just discount all the wonder nonsense in your reads - I agree its NAI if you apply certain reasoning. Everyone here that played with me as scum can tell you however that ill focus on optimal play as scum, and I didnt need anyone to be aware of my wonder if I was scum because I already had plenty of towncred from nearly everyone.

Claiming that wonder when theres both a roleblock, tracker (which there was before my first hints) and the double investigation wonder - as scum - is very sub-par play. What am I gonna use it for that way? To clear myself against the tracker? Or to state im the same or a dfferent allignment from whoever? I dont see the sense in it.

My only goal is that people trust their investigative results. The rest is irrelevant. And yes, im fine with getting roleblocked to achieve it - whether I ask for it myself is completely irrelevant in that regard.

Anyways, Nero should be fully aware that as town Ill often identify the town use in mechanics, and then share the information with everyone.

[Vecna]

Also, this doesnt sound like drunk-posting at all.

Also, with all respect, you don't know me. I drink a hell of a lot, way more than I should, and like 2 nights(nancy?) ago I got really drunk to the point where I threw up and had the shakes all the next day....and yet I'm on it again because I'm an alcoholic but w/e, we all have our shit to get over.

Accusing me of lying about RL as any alignment is a fucking dog move.

No its not a dog-move, because stating shit along the lines of "im drunk" also serves an ingame-purpose; namely that were supposed to think your inhibitions are gone and youre freely posting away.

Its a very valid scum-strategy that ive used before myself.

The fact youre using OGI here in such a way, means its free-game for me to claim that your logical train of thought here doesnt sound like its a drunk man talking at all.

[Vecna]

You didnt think it was suspicious they were suddenly all over eachother?

you don't think its suspicious that Math has been scumreading the Nancy slot and throwing shade their way...why is your connection scummy but not mine?

If it came from anyone else id be all over it Nero, absolutely.

Sadly ive had to deal with that shit myself all game as well, since Math has been scumreading me from post 1 - either because of some shit that happened in PYP, or because youre right and the slot is scum. I honestly cannot tell which it is, but im still leaning towards incredibly annoying town.

[Vecna]

See, heres the thing Notice - youre hard townreading the slots a lot of people are suspicious of for good reasons. With that PoE pool, how are you not having townreads on the actual obvious slots and having a pretty good idea of what the scumteam should look like?

[Vecna]

Btw, calling to be investigated by the double investigation wonder with that Red Fort showing up is a bit of a scumping to me.

[Vecna]

The tracker flip was the very moment we all got our wonders. You submit them way before, and gerry was the D3 lynch with the tracker. I had no way of knowing the tracker wouldve been gone when I very openly claimed I was likely picking that wonder. Doing that as scum, while it wastes the limited slots and likely invalidates the use of the wonder, is extremely subpar play.

And id say I had quite a lot of towncred during day3 yes. Im not even sure if there was a single vote for me during the entire day, and it lasted a long long time. And that was after the ABR flip, which I was pushing hard. The people you claim that were suspicious of me, werent at that time. Alisae and you were townreading me. Only Math was scumreading me.....and later Sondam, but that only happened when I was prodding them.

As for your comment that ive had a perfect fucking game? What dimension are you living in?

[Vecna]

Also, this doesnt sound like drunk-posting at all.

Also, with all respect, you don't know me. I drink a hell of a lot, way more than I should, and like 2 nights(nancy?) ago I got really drunk to the point where I threw up and had the shakes all the next day....and yet I'm on it again because I'm an alcoholic but w/e, we all have our shit to get over.

Accusing me of lying about RL as any alignment is a fucking dog move.

No its not a dog-move, because stating shit along the lines of "im drunk" also serves an ingame-purpose; namely that were supposed to think your inhibitions are gone and youre freely posting away.

Its a very valid scum-strategy that ive used before myself.

The fact youre using OGI here in such a way, means its free-game for me to claim that your logical train of thought here doesnt sound like its a drunk man talking at all.

No, it fucking is a dog move.

I literally WILL NEVER FUCKING LIE ABOUT RL SHIT. Anyone who does for a stupid ass game deserves to be blacklisted. It's a shit move. The fact that you have in the past just means I'm going to blacklist/wotc/wotm/woto you. Because that's fucking low.

Regardless of my alignment I am drunk. I don't lie about that. To have such loose morals irl that you would lie about that means you would lie about cheating on your gf or something similar. I am not a fucking liar. I feel very strongly about lying.

....seriously? This game constantly involves lying. Pretending to be afk for whatever reason is a valid scumtactic. Pretending to be emotional is a valid scum-tactic. And theres a large large list. Just because drinking is an emotional topic for you that you'd never lie about (if at all true), doesnt mean it is for everyone else.

Get off that high horse. If you dont want out of game shit involved in the game, then dont bring it up while you go on a spree to post with more coherence than youve done at any point prior in the game.