Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
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Have you read enough to form an opinion of mastina yet, MoI?-
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This is a good order.In post 3557, Nero Cain wrote:AJ who'd you target last night. I want MOI, and Mastina to claim. Then TWIE and Heartless.-
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As long as MoI is towards the front, I'm happy.-
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Zefiend still needs to claim flavor and who he used his character ability on.-
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We're waiting for both his flavor and action.-
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Chirrut Imwe, Rogue Three VT
Special ability is I am one with the Force, the Force is with me and it's the tree stump-
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How many scum are there?In post 3601, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Oh Nero ... come make you fake-claim ...-
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I see no acknowledgment of anyone being loved.In post 3602, Firebringer wrote:-
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I misread this as MoI saying he already used it.In post 3597, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I’m Jyn Erso - Rogue One Vanilla Townie. My character ability is “Rebellions are built on hope”, one-shot and unused. I can make someone Loved for the Day by posting in thread. Fire will acknowledge at the next vote count.
He should use it now.-
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See the previous post.In post 3617, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Well since I have not used my ability ... why would you expect to see it?-
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I'm getting him on it.In post 3615, Nero Cain wrote:Does anti still hold the view that AJ is town via setup spec?
I don't think scum having a jailkeeper would be balanced.-
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I imagine an ability like yours has a MYLO/LYLO clause.In post 3620, MagnaofIllusion wrote:The LAMIST I'd bet the game on it is pretty obv scum hoping to save their partner and get a mislynch in probable MYLO.
That's why I'm telling you to use it.-
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I have no idea where Fire got the Rogue One crew call signs by the way.-
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That's odd.In post 3626, MagnaofIllusion wrote:It doesn't.-
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I doubt anyone's lying about what their character ability is.-
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He probably was but that doesn't make me think he's town.In post 3645, Nero Cain wrote:I felt like he was being genuine when he first got waggoned as was all like "I spent hours reading this game!"-
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So who else besides Nero and zefiend do you think is scum?In post 3646, MagnaofIllusion wrote:My read on Mastin at this point is basically formed by him being pushed by my top two scum suspects since I replaced in. One of whom throws off obv scum with every post but is letting the other fight his battles for him.-
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To formulate reads.
Why would they not?-
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I don't think I would support a lynch other than MoI today.
I'll wait for Anti's verdict on the setup, but my first impression is all the claimed specials are probably town.-
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Excluding the character abilities. Obviously. >_>In post 3656, Nero Cain wrote:???? So you think we are all town? We all have claimed specials. I don't get it.-
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I was thinking about how that would work and I never got to a completely satisfying conclusion.In post 3656, Nero Cain wrote:Also Mastins claim is fake as shit. "If we lynch this random person something random (BUT GOOD!) will happen. I don't know who is is so we just gotta keep lynching" This is the same witch that offered Hansel and Gretel dinner and then tried to bake them. Don't fall for it.
Spoiler: Warning, Contains Rogue One Plot Spoilers-
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Nothing pressing.In post 3660, Nero Cain wrote:I don't really want to click on the spoil. I haven't seen the movie yet, There's nothing game relevant to it right?
Go see the movie!-
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I''ve Googled it and I'm scouring Wookiepedia right now and I still haven't found where Fire got the call signs for the Rogue crew.In post 3659, Nero Cain wrote:
I'd also like to point out that one of the reasons that PV was lynched was b/c his call sign is wrong . I understand that having two players with identical call signs isn't the same thing but I mean isn't it possible Fire just made a mistake?In post 3648, Drunken Piper wrote:(DP wonders if NEro just fucked up his claim with the Rogue Four)-
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I suppose they could've been referring to each other by these calls signs during the battle and I was just too distracted by everything else to notice.
Even so, I wouldhaveto think that some nerd would painstakingly chart that out somewhere. They did it for Blue Squadron.-
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yepIn post 3615, Nero Cain wrote:Does anti still hold the view that AJ is town via setup spec?
gotta run now and i'll get back to this but that's the short answer-
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there's a bit of town power here, but it's mostly concentrated on a few ppl. scum already have TWO known ways to shut it down (factional nk + vanillaizer). having a third way is not balanced. that is not something fire would think is ok and it's not something rc would pass.
as iffy as play may be, aj and molla are prob town.-
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Why don't you go ahead and try doing that?In post 3667, Nero Cain wrote:Basically at this point I have to convince Zfiend that he was wrong on Titus.-
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holy shit nero no it doesn't. i didn't just fall off the fucking turnip truck, i've run setups for years and i know that whenever you give GENERAL counters (like roleblockers) town power has to be high AND widely distributed. you can't have a clusterfuck of power over a few people and then give scum TWO general counter roles, that's FUCKING NUTS.In post 3683, Nero Cain wrote:@Heartless. He's the ONLY full role in a sea of x-shots, that alone should give you pause. I think it also makes a TON of sense to give scum an unlimited blocking power.
and this effect is WELL DOCUMENTED http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67307
in case you don't want to read all that, just skip down to when hoopla talks about roleblockers and how they BLOW THE TOWN EV TO SHIT
the "x-shot" point isn't good either, that would actually indicate the full power IS town unless you're suggesting hampered town roles are going up against a scumteam on fucking viagra
the 2-shot vig and dp's joat is fucking IT for fixed town power. molla's role is middling to weak and all the little shit character abilities are p much power neutral. then you have the rogue crew invention which is not guaranteed to go to town AND scum have the power to at least spy on the rogue crew for a night. add all that up and it's also a middling role.
so you're saying a large with a grand total of TWO decent power roles going up against TWO general counters sounds balanced?
no
not in any universe where firebringer wants to retain the ability to run any more games
this is not a tit-for-tat thing. the town EV in the 14:3 and 13:4 ratios is 20-30%. town. need. more. power.
scum having a full blocking ability does not make ANY sense.-
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aj, you wanna take another swing at the titus townread?
earlier, you cited the early game so i went back. i see pine made a throw away vote on the tail end of the RVS and then a "moar titus votes" post later. on titus' end... i'm not seeing anything to suggest they wouldn't be buddies.-
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and here's the reason large themes have embarrassingly low town win rates...In post 3696, Nero Cain wrote:That seems rather townsided to me-
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inventions are spent. dp said as much yesterday-
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is that right?In post 3701, ɀefiend wrote:The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum.
and what is this confidence based on?-
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In post 3513, ɀefiend wrote:We are lynching Mastina tomorrow. No questions asked.In post 3592, ɀefiend wrote:Flavor name is Saw Gerrara, rebel extremist. Haven't used 1-shot ability.
Have two full busy days ahead of me so I won't be quite active. Basically, I still want mastina dead, and MOI is full of shit. Either Titus was pocketing me the entire time and MOI just thinks it's easier to mislynch me (unlikely but possible) OR he's tunneling me like Infinity was and there's a chance we can talk it out (seems that way given his other interactions/hunting).
these are SUCCESSIVE postsIn post 3701, ɀefiend wrote:No need to convince me of anything, really. The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum. And with mastina's constant pushing on BB, it's pretty obvious who I think it is. AJ and MOI have actively engaged in vote-parking on me because I was a fairly attackable mislynch when heartless and Infinity were pressuring me hard. It's probably no coincidence that mastina constantly calls me (and other townies) scum, but avoids wagons at all costs.
mastina + MOI + AJ is where I'm at right now.
VOTE: MOI-
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holy fuck that is just heinous. hold on a sec.
UNVOTE:-
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don't give me that nero, that does not even come CLOSE to proving zefiend is town
1) the jk said in advance he would be protecting us, 2) the OUTED investigative would obviously go ahead of us regarding reads
titus being the other scum WOULD explain why infinity would go ahead of us, yes
that slot being scum STILL doesn't make zefiend town-
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WHAT IS THE DEFENSE FOR THIS, NERO?In post 3704, Heartless wrote:In post 3513, ɀefiend wrote:We are lynching Mastina tomorrow. No questions asked.In post 3592, ɀefiend wrote:Flavor name is Saw Gerrara, rebel extremist. Haven't used 1-shot ability.
Have two full busy days ahead of me so I won't be quite active. Basically, I still want mastina dead, and MOI is full of shit. Either Titus was pocketing me the entire time and MOI just thinks it's easier to mislynch me (unlikely but possible) OR he's tunneling me like Infinity was and there's a chance we can talk it out (seems that way given his other interactions/hunting).
these are SUCCESSIVE postsIn post 3701, ɀefiend wrote:No need to convince me of anything, really. The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum. And with mastina's constant pushing on BB, it's pretty obvious who I think it is. AJ and MOI have actively engaged in vote-parking on me because I was a fairly attackable mislynch when heartless and Infinity were pressuring me hard. It's probably no coincidence that mastina constantly calls me (and other townies) scum, but avoids wagons at all costs.
mastina + MOI + AJ is where I'm at right now.
VOTE: MOI-
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VOTE: MoI
Executive override of the hysterical drama king.
zefiend's move is not surprising.-
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That said,
There isn't one. Of course the "talking out" of Post 3592 didn't happen. It was never going to happen. The "read" changed as the situation demanded.In post 3708, Heartless wrote:WHAT IS THE DEFENSE FOR THIS, NERO?-
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This is not a town attitude.In post 3714, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Yeah … given your “MoI must be lynched today” what do you think this will accomplish if I am scum to you. I have two viable scum suspects. Are you asking me to call the whole team? That’s busywork.-
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Nothing about mastina's interactions with Pine was of any note to you?In post 3714, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Mastin I automatically want to scum read for her playstyle and past issues. For her to be scum the push on her by both Zefield and Nero would be bussing. Possible I guess but suboptimal play. Maybe the fact that Mastin isn’t getting pressure at all opens the door on that more … will see if Mastin joins my wagon.
I'm unsaturated.-
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And unsatisfied. That too. @_@-
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We don't disagree with your zefiend read.In post 3720, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Yes it is. Find me a game where in MYLO going out of your way to call the scum team results in good things for Town. All it does is allows for scum to make sure that any mis-reads on teams are capitalized on.
Do you disagree with my read on Zefiend? If you do and want to discuss I’m certainly down with that.
Do you disagree with my read on Nero? Same offer applies.
But don’t grandstand me for not saying “Here are the three scum BAM”. I don’t operate that way and probably you should know that regardless of which head this is …
We do disagree with your Nero read.
I'll go back to something mastina brought up a while ago.
I did some research and the short answer is "yes."In post 3414, mastina wrote:
To be honest: I need to refresh my memory on your scumgame.In post 3159, Nero Cain wrote:youKNOWthis is townNero so why would a presumably townMastin pretend like she doesn't know that?
Like.
It used to be simple.
You and Antihero both had the same tell: lurking. It was a very strong, VERY reliable tell. You lurked, you were scum; you did stuff, you weren't scum.
Tell me, does that tell still hold true?
The longer, more detailed answer is that in the recent past, Nero does appear to struggle as scum a little bit. Here's three recent town games of his: Street Fighter, Mini Normal 1829, and Mini 1839. In all of them, he was one of the top posters. Even in the mini games, he racked up a post count in the triple digits. Contrast this to recent scumgames: Dragon Age Mafia (part of the 100 Percent Ego hydra), Mini 1848, and Large Normal 199. In those, he's doesn't get beyond the middle of the pack in the activity overview. In two of them, he's below even the mod.
I looked over his ISOs from the scum games and it looks like Nero attempts to project an "aggressive" tone at points, but overall they're relatively meek. Probably most strikingly, I don't really see Nero's indignation at not being followed (Post 3511 among others) fitting into his scum game. I also don't think Nero would kill Infinity. Infinity wasn't scumreading Nero and likely wouldn't be in the near future. Drunken Piper would've been a much more immediate threat.
We think mastina is town, mostly due to her interactions with Pine. The reason I'm pestering you is see whatIn post 3730, MagnaofIllusion wrote:@Heartless – How in the hell are you floating Mastin interactions re: Pine at me with Nero’s completely scummy Day 1-2 interactions and Aero’s complete active lurking / lack of any read on Pine?youhave to say.-
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Get better mastina! <3
Health is more important than a dumb internet game.-
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he was sk there. we were looking @ single ball.In post 3755, MagnaofIllusion wrote:As for your Nero meta read – meh. He was scum in Death Note Mafia and in the top 7 posters for the entire game despite being lynched Day 1. How did this game escape your meta read?
sk meta is going to be closer to town meta than scum meta anyway-
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^what's the narrative w this?In post 3755, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I don’t see Town is his attacking everyone for suspecting Pine Day 1 and Day 2.-
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yepIn post 3755, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Do you think Zefiend and I are partners? I mean … the fact that you have your vote parked on me says you do given the above but I’d like confirmation that is what you think.-
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IN GENERALIn post 3761, BBmolla wrote:
Which interactions in particularIn post 3750, Heartless wrote:We think mastina is town, mostly due to her interactions with Pine. The reason I'm pestering you is see what you have to say.
first, in general, i don't think it's likely mastin would bus here the way she did. bussing should really only be done when absolutely necessary, when there's no way you won't get away with NOT doing it. in this case, mastin probably just would've entered calling pine town. being scum and having a buddy not be scumread is a LUXURY, one that you don't just throw away. mastin knows this.
IN PARTICULAR
i think it'd be difficult for ginpine and mastina to pull of what they did as scum theater.
here's gin's first reaction:
no mention of mastina's pine read (so it won't LOOK like an omgus, and why would he care about that? if she's town and he's scum.)In post 517, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:How do you look at blank votes and pick what is town and what isn't town?
/Gin
he undercuts mastina's process and way of going about giving reads. he doesn't go after mastina herself. he goes after her credibility. that's how you deal w a real threat bc regardless of if ppl town or scumread mastin they need to think her reads can't be trusted.
then comes pine's reaction (where he takes this almost-taunting tone... which is itself kind of telling)
In post 562, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:So continues the hilariously long history of Mastina being completely unable to read me correct. At least she's Town this game.
Pine
it's a little bit of a different approach then gin, but it works towards the same goal: get across the message that mastin's read cannot be trusted.In post 606, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:
Yeah, right?In post 579, Titus wrote:
Waaaait...Mastina's here too...In post 520, mastina wrote:
Fuckit.In post 153, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:Boring game is boring. Star Wars should not be boring. Moar Titus votes.
VOTE: Pine.
When I get a chance to lynch a scum Pine.
Yer damn right I'm gonna take that chance to lynch his scummy ass.
Why does my pc break when all the legends are here?
Which should really tell you that I'm Town. Come on, Mastina, you know as well as I do that your instincts with me are routinely backwards.In post 584, mastina wrote:
Yes I am! You, however, are your usual scumfuck self!In post 562, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:At least she's Town this game.
why use this approach and do this if they knew the read was bullshit anyway?
they wouldn't.-
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no to bothIn post 3763, Aj The Epic wrote:Heartless, do you have any reason to suspect MOI over Zefiend or care what order?-
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these things are trueIn post 3772, Aj The Epic wrote:Honestly I don't have a TWIE read because he's been so off the radar and unimportant.
BUT we were thinking
In post 1794, TheWayItEnds wrote:huh.
about day 3 daybreak.In post 1795, TheWayItEnds wrote:2 kills with dead vig is interesting.
he noted the extra kill when and if he were scum he would have already known where the extra kill came from. the double post in quick succession comes off as a genuine musing and why would you bother faking a "townslip" when only the rogue crew could've known it was a "townslip" at the time
more likely twie's town-
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do you? what about them?In post 3775, Aj The Epic wrote:3725
I like the arguments against Nero and felt that Nero not addressing more of it was sad.
i think they're a loose collection of things that are supposed to be "incriminating" but don't really make a good cohesive narrative. is the point that nero was making a concerted effort to sabotage the pine wagon? bc i'm not really buying into that. the "chainsawing" we're supposed to assume here looks a lot more like an artifact of nero tunneling mastin.-
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oh wow i am not as confident in my mastin read as i was...
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Your AtE doesn't move me.In post 3792, MagnaofIllusion wrote:So today is dragging out and I basically have little care at this point. If you are going to push through an obviously scum driven mislynch and lose the game go ahead and do so. This serves as my pre-emptive “I told you so” to Town (basically Heartless) on my wagon.
As far as I can tell, Nero is the only one townreading zefiend and we're the only person voting you that you're townreading. Hardly the situation to resign yourself to a lynch.
The sort junky people like us ask.In post 3792, MagnaofIllusion wrote:What sort of junk question is this?
Your story is that Nero "chainsawed" for Pine, but I don't think there's much evidence to sustain it. Nero didn't badger Anti, Klingon, or Infinity for voting Pine. He never called Pine town. The reason he gave for quoting mastina's Pine vote and called it "scum" was that mastina was scumreading Cakez, Nero's scumread at the time, but voting elsewhere. The narrative that makes the most sense to us here is that Nero was scumreading mastin and that was the dominant factor to his Day 1 pushes, not a defense of Pine. The fact mastina was scumreading Pine seems coincidental.-
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yeah what could that possibly be...?In post 3781, ɀefiend wrote:Seems like a really dumb reason to claim. And in my opinion, it is most certainly not possible for yours and BBmolla's claimed roles to both be town, unless scum has some gigantic ability.
In post 0, Firebringer wrote:Imperial 2 Shot Vanillizer-
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and how did you arrive at the moi read, precisely?
In post 3592, ɀefiend wrote:Flavor name is Saw Gerrara, rebel extremist. Haven't used 1-shot ability.
Have two full busy days ahead of me so I won't be quite active. Basically, I still want mastina dead, and MOI is full of shit. Either Titus was pocketing me the entire time and MOI just thinks it's easier to mislynch me (unlikely but possible) OR he's tunneling me like Infinity was and there's a chance we can talk it out (seems that way given his other interactions/hunting).
i see no progression between these two posts. suddenly moi is scummy for voting you but he was voting you/calling you scum all of yesterday so what's suddenly scummy about it now?In post 3701, ɀefiend wrote:No need to convince me of anything, really. The dispersion of powers and claims makes me fairly confident about my guess that one of AJ/BB is scum. And with mastina's constant pushing on BB, it's pretty obvious who I think it is. AJ and MOI have actively engaged in vote-parking on me because I was a fairly attackable mislynch when heartless and Infinity were pressuring me hard. It's probably no coincidence that mastina constantly calls me (and other townies) scum, but avoids wagons at all costs.
mastina + MOI + AJ is where I'm at right now.
VOTE: MOI-
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6296
- Joined: August 8, 2014
/sigh
we're really doing this?-
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6296
- Joined: August 8, 2014
i guess
what was the game?-
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Heartless Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6296
- Joined: August 8, 2014