Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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In post 2105, Nero Cain wrote:I'm going to policy lynch Infinity after Mastin and Titus flip scum.
Good luck with that, cowboy. Both parts, actually.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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No. If you'd like to discuss any read in particular I'd be happy to. But I'm not gonna say "gosh darn you're right, my reads are shit" just because you say so.In post 2111, PeregrineV wrote:
You're a townread because of Pine's treatment of you, not because your reads are right.In post 2108, Infinity 324 wrote:Scum is in {AJ, aero, pere, TWIE, molla}
Mastin convinced me that molla is possible but not that's it's likely.
Have to ISO cakez but I doubt he's in there.
Try better, please.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Nero, come on. You have to admit there have been a little more than a few points in your mafia career where you didn't give a case.In post 2118, Nero Cain wrote:As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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With aj, I don't like how he talked about being a better scumhunter on later days but hasn't really done any of that, instead he's largely defended himself and posted fluff today. I also didn't like his reaction to the heartless vote.
With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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N1 heartless gave a vig shot to someone who shot kling N2In post 2136, PeregrineV wrote:What did the Rogue Crew or whatever do night1?
What did they do night2?
N2 heartless gave someone an ability to be used N3-
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What's that supposed to meanIn post 2149, TheWayItEnds wrote:-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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I mean, not very many of them.In post 2156, PeregrineV wrote:
As an objective veiwpoint, he has been posting his reads and how he reached them.In post 2135, Infinity 324 wrote:With aj, I don't like how he talked about being a better scumhunter on later days but hasn't really done any of that, instead he's largely defended himself and posted fluff today. I also didn't like his reaction to the heartless vote.
Gin mentioned this once without a push and that's it, there's no reason why that couldn't be shade on a buddy.As for fluff, you sound like Pine
Given that I think cakez is most likely town atm, this is not very convincing. I'm not sure about the context, but I think it's definitely plausible that scum would suggest their buddy as a possible wagon.Also, Pine is trying to set him up to be the next lynch:In post 734, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:Alban, whats your opinion on the cakez wagon and do you think AJ is the better lynch or no?
Mastin is town imo, also I could definitely see those interactions being distancing.
He was replaced, so there is that.In post 2135, Infinity 324 wrote:With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.
I totally think Mastina is scum.
Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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This is so scumIn post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Of course not, but holding a vanillize shot is a huge drawback.In post 2158, Nero Cain wrote:he has this really odd stance that Molla really was vanillaized when, if its a Pine/Molla team he wouldn't vanillaize his own buddy-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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In post 2164, ɀefiend wrote:with absolutely zero reasoning.In post 2086, Infinity 324 wrote:That post was a bunch of empty analysis and busy questions
If you want me to elaborate say so (I'll probably do so tomorrow anyway). But don't say stuff that's not trueIn post 2087, Infinity 324 wrote:The question directed at cakez also feels quite fake-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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I'm sorry, but this is such a shitty mentality.In post 2167, Nero Cain wrote:Why should I not consider an Infinity lynch when he's defending scum?
"my reads are always right and people who disagree with them are suspicious"
Take a step back and look at how you're playing please, then maybe we can have some real interactions and discussions.
(this, by the way, is why I didn't vote you for rogue leader d1)-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.In post 2170, Aj The Epic wrote:Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.-
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Then spit that pill the fuck out and put it down the drain.In post 2173, ɀefiend wrote:
Yeah, the role sounds bad.In post 2159, Nero Cain wrote:
So Pine has a role where he joins the crew when he wasn't invited. Like why would he not instantly become a leading hotbed of activity?In post 2157, ɀefiend wrote:I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.
You're saying you think Pine and mastina would have planned the whole thing out from the time she was "scum-reading" him?
It's a hard pill for me to swallow.-
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Mastin was lazy/busy, pine was avoiding her. I think that explains itIn post 2177, PeregrineV wrote:Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.-
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My point is, at least I'm willing to admit I could be wrong. You suspecting me solely for disagreeing with your scumreads when you don't know those scumreads are correct is frankly just not good play.In post 2178, Nero Cain wrote:
how is this any different other than you calling me town based off meta? You're disagreeing with me b/c you think your sig is correct and in most cases its is but thats only b/c there are more town players in any given game. I mean you wankers wasted a valuable vig shot on a shitty Kling slot so don't you dare talk to me about competence.In post 2171, Infinity 324 wrote:(this, by the way, is why I didn't vote you for rogue leader d1)-
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Because it's easiest to find scummy things from people you know are scum, and that makes it look like you're scumhunting. Also it might stand out if you just ignore someone.In post 2182, PeregrineV wrote:
Why bother when he could just ignore his buddy.In post 2160, Infinity 324 wrote:Gin mentioned this once without a push and that's it, there's no reason why that couldn't be shade on a buddy.
Because his wagon grew quickly, died slowly, and was not CW'ed for forever and a day. Plus his thoughts were all over the place and seemed to be organic. (need to iso for specifics and verification on that second part)In post 2183, PeregrineV wrote:
Why is Cake a townread?In post 2160, Infinity 324 wrote:Given that I think cakez is most likely town atm, this is not very convincing. I'm not sure about the context, but I think it's definitely plausible that scum would suggest their buddy as a possible wagon.-
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I never said your mastin read flipped. I said you're setting up to flip it.In post 2187, ɀefiend wrote:
What the fuck are you talking about?In post 2175, Infinity 324 wrote:
It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.In post 2170, Aj The Epic wrote:Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.
I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.
At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.
This reaction is beyond fake.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Just because I'm townreading titus? That's so shallow thoughIn post 2189, Nero Cain wrote:FTR I do have a town read on you Infinity but why should I not consider you a possibly buddy when Titus flips scum?-
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It wouldn't make it any more likely. Scum don't tend to hard tr their partners that often imeIn post 2195, Nero Cain wrote:So if I am hard town reading AJ and he were to flip scum you'd have no doubt in your mind that I couldn't be a scumbuddy?-
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-mastin just wasn't mislynchable at the timeIn post 2193, PeregrineV wrote:
Why would Pine avoid her when he could fight her to push a mislynch on her?In post 2179, Infinity 324 wrote:
Mastin was lazy/busy, pine was avoiding her. I think that explains itIn post 2177, PeregrineV wrote:Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.
Lazy/Busy mastin with 4th most posts in the game?
Who else is Mastin treating the exact same way?
-mastin was posting tons of catchup one-liners, so yes.
-...idk-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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I'm really sorry that you got annoyed by this, I wasn't try to insult you personally. I was trying to lay the groundwork so we can cooperate later on. I guess I misunderstood your position in 2167 and took it to mean you were considering lynching me now simply because I townread your scumreads, which is what I took issue with. Sorry about that.In post 2205, Nero Cain wrote:In post 2201, Infinity 324 wrote:But after they flip scum. Not before.I DON'T SUSPECT YOU NOW AND I NEVER HAVE YOU FUCKING MORON.Your holier than thou attitude is just pissing me the fuck off.-
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Yes, that oneIn post 2206, PeregrineV wrote:This wagon?
SirCakez [7] Aeronaut, alban, Nero Cain, BBMolla, PeregrineV (as 'lil Uzi), Infinity 324, Aj The Epic-
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Ok, but tomorrow. I'm tired as shit.In post 2215, Nero Cain wrote:
fair enough. I'm sorry too. I can be...zealous in my efforts. So lets rap about your Titus and Mastin town reads.In post 2211, Infinity 324 wrote:I'm really sorry that you got annoyed by this, I wasn't try to insult you personally. I was trying to lay the groundwork so we can cooperate later on. I guess I misunderstood your position in 2167 and took it to mean you were considering lynching me now simply because I townread your scumreads, which is what I took issue with. Sorry about that.-
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Forgot to respond to this, the claim looks town actually. Also I think both those roles can exist for town.In post 2170, Aj The Epic wrote:I'm going to just full on claim JailKeeper right here. Character name Mon Mothma. I realize it's not the most productive case but I've too heavily hinted PR the last day to leave you hanging without a continuation to this and especially with infinity's pushing on why I'm interested in Rogue Crew mechanics, I'd like to just come clean with that. My wondering is if I could JK the Rogue leader and have him still distribute abilities. Fire never got back to me, which is making this kinda complicated. My two actions have been JK cakez both nights.
But also off of this I'm not completely confident with Molla's claim in any sense of the word since I am objectively more powerful than him and overlap his role heavily. But I don't know enough about setup to know if this is possible, which is part of my guiding reasons for claiming. Also, me being targeted as a semi-protect or blocker would probably help the town with some random WIFOM issues. I agree it's some really strange fucking gambit to not vanillize anyone (or have hit a VT and maybe saw no reaction...?) but as stated, I'm not entirely comfortable with his claim.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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zefiend, just because I didn't explain in a ton of detail right when you wanted me to what specifically bothered me about your catchup because I was tired doesn't make me scum. I even said you can ask me to elaborate if you wanted, but instead you just use it as a reason to call me scum.
I don't see how "scum townread player x but waffled on the read when other people disagreed to possibly set up to vote them" is as crazy as you make it sound. Scum!you probably couldn't even find any justifiable reasons of your own to scumread mastin, and sheeping or using obviously bad reasons would have issues of its own. I find it hard to believe that, as town, you would start to reconsider a confident townread after one person told you you should. There are a bunch of people saying mastin is town, why trust nero and pere over them?
Your reaction to all this is so overblown, and the fact that you think it's so obviously scummy that I didn't elaborate as much and you wanted me to and think it's so ridiculous that scum could set up to change their read is scummy in and of itself.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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I never elaborated on the original reasons, you never even asked me to. I gave reasons and said I'd elaborate on them if you asked me, and then you just said they're vague so I must be scum. I mean seriously.In post 2274, ɀefiend wrote:Your "elaboration" was inventing a reason from my exchange with Nero -- which happened AFTER you originally called me out. You didn't have shit to begin with and you just reached for the first thing you could think of.-
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Where did pere engage you? Of course you'd consider their opinion but you gave no specifics of your own about what worried you about mastin or what good points they made to make you think you might be wrong.In post 2274, ɀefiend wrote:You are focusing on my dialogue with Nero and Peregrine for the wrong reasons. They were particularly influential to me because they ENGAGED me on the exact points I was thinking mastina couldn't have bussed. Why would I NOT consider their opinion when they are saying the exact opposite?-
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You might understand, though, when the town narrative makes little sense to me then I might start thinking about a scum narrative to explain it. Whatever you say at least one person will probably disagree with, so it doesn't make sense to reconsider your original statement just because others disagree.In post 2274, ɀefiend wrote:misrepresentation. I like how you add in "possibly to set up to vote them" - this is blatant construction of a narrative that you have no idea about. Nero and Peregrine's disagreements simply caused me to reflect and reevaluate.
Also, pere didn't even engage you as far as I can tell, and people who agreed with you wouldn't need to engage with you since they agree. This whole thing makes very little sense to me from town.-
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I'll look at fire's other theme games, but I don't like that the majority of your case on molla relies on this specific assumption about the setup.In post 2280, mastina wrote:
Again.In post 2082, Infinity 324 wrote:Is this really a thing? I haven't looked at a ton of scum fakeclaims in themes/been scum in themes but how can you be so confident fire wouldn't just...save certain town roles for scum fakeclaims and not give them to town?
One, experience.
Two, because I know what's shitty.
And giving scum a fakeclaim of something they can be proven to not have?
That's shitty.
Again, doctor, hider, BP, and cop are all fakeclaims that can't be proven false except sometimes by a tracker or by a follower.-
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But doing that then joining the rogue crew? Especially when he was already under pressure?In post 2294, mastina wrote:
It's two-shot.In post 2162, Infinity 324 wrote:but holding a vanillize shot is a huge drawback.
You really think scum are going to waste a two-shot role N1, in a large theme?
That's like scum blindly using a 1-shot strongman in a mini theme, blindly, on a player who hasn't roleclaimed.
Sure it COULD happen but it'd be absolutely moronic to do. You save the shots until you have actual threats to remove.
seems unlikely-
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I...strongly disagreeIn post 2296, mastina wrote:If you think we have a jailkeeper.
AND, on top of the jailkeeper, have a 1x rolestop.
YET ALONE, a JOAT with the 1x rolestop and two other potentially useful abilities.
You're an absolutely shitty balancer.
That's NOT a combination a sane moderator would make.
I've seen stuff like doctor + joat w/1-shot roleblock in mini normals. In a large theme, there's really no reason why this is not possible.-
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Town roleblocker and doctor are meant to serve the same purpose, to block kills...I'll go look for specifics later but why does it matter what scum had to counter it? Doctor and JoaT isn't even enough power even if scum have nothing.In post 2317, mastina wrote:
Roleblocker != rolestop.In post 2300, Infinity 324 wrote:I've seen stuff like doctor + joat w/1-shot roleblock in mini normals. In a large theme, there's really no reason why this is not possible.
They're opposites.
And if you MEANT doctor + Joat with a rolestop, what did the scum have to counter that?-
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Can someone else verify this?In post 2316, mastina wrote:Maybe they change details. Maybe they omit details. Scum have an ability only scum would ever have? That might be absent from the town version of their claim. But they keep it as close to the theme material as possible. They match safeclaims as closely to the original as possible.-
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I'm pretty sure he would. You would have to know if suddenly you couldn't use your special ability anymore...In post 2326, Aj The Epic wrote:
Scum!molla doesn't necessarily know if a VT gets a messageIn post 2324, Infinity 324 wrote:I guess my main issue with molla being scum is why he didn't just claim VT. He'd still know he'd been vanillaized if he really was a VT because of the special power.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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I'm tired today again, tomorrow I'll put more effort into this game. For now I'll summarize my townreads on mastin and titus. Titus first:
For titus, I don't really see the motivation for playing dumbtown here. You know you will get at least some heat for it, and you will end up having very little influence on other people. As opposed to how I've seen her play scum, which is very manipulative, very logical, and very effective. I think a lot of times it's a guessing game whether people can correctly identify scum pretending to be dumb town, so playing that way is leaving a lot up to chance and giving up a lot of control. I don't think that is in titus's personality. This post I actually found very genuine:
For one, it doesn't seem likely that scum would alienate their townreads by calling them all bad, and this at least means titus can't really be buddying molla. Also, the first paragraph reminds me of what I would feel in her position as town.In post 2097, Titus wrote:If you fuckers are going to lynch Molla, that will make this game unplayable for me in most regards. I am bet my life levels of confident Molla is town, and I lack the time or inclination to read through mountains of garbage when the truth is obvious.
So tell me, who the fuck will take out the trash of Infinity and Nero along with them not playing Pants on Head level stupid? Yeah, I would vote that for Rogue Leader. Guess what, my townreads are also my dumb as fuck reads. So yeah, you are not getting my vote for Rogue Leader. No one is. I need to see intelligence and logical coherence, even if I disagree with it to vote Rogue Leader.
Also the interactions with pine point to her being town as pere has pointed out.-
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This should not be a thingIn post 2346, Firebringer wrote:TheWayItEnds, Drunken Piper, BBmolla,-
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I guess I haven't emphasized this enough, but zefiend is scum and needs rope. He's my only confident scumread. I will go through his first post today and explain what was scummy about it today. If you're scumreading him, vote him. We need wagons to make this game go forward because right now it's stuck.-
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You guys both ignored my reasons for tr'ing titus...
I don't see anything in nero's case that can't be explained by titus just not thinking clearly for one reason or another. Tunneling makes townies do very weird things, and I think that's what's happening to titus.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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I find this genuine btw. I'm really unsure on molla, I was gut scumreading him before and mastin explained why my reasons for townreading him were bad, but he's starting to feel town and I don't see a strong case against him other than his role.In post 2391, BBmolla wrote:like fuck man I really think you're town, mastina maybe not (?), but I really believe you are. can we talk about your worries about me and figure this shit out so we don't need to waste a lynch-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Oh, I didn't even notice at first but going from this to "oh yeah you might be right" without citing any specifics is very scummyIn post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:I do not like Nero's thoughts on mastina because his scumlean(?) read on her seems poorly or under-developed.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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This post just doesn't show a genuine attempt to evaluate people. A lot of the points he brought up are either things other people said or are very vague/waffly statements. Town would probably try to ask probing questions if they were unsure, or try to come to a conclusion on the game state. He likes nero's points on titus and likes titus's points on me. Ok, am I or is she, or are we both scum? He doesn't even try to answer these questions. In general he doesn't give a big picture view on the game, he doesn't even notice that he may have too many scumreads, he just say things about different players. The questions he asks seemed to be busy questions, the one to cakez doesn't seem to be alignment-indicative and the one to piper was already asked.In post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:OK, read the whole game. I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about many players, but at this point I am pretty confident that@mastinaand@Heartlessare town, so I would appreciate some help sorting through these thoughts and maybe pointing out things I missed.
I like@Nero Cain's points about Titus and I feel a lot of players are sleeping on her this game. However I do not like Nero's thoughts on mastina because his scumlean(?) read on her seems poorly or under-developed. I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.
However, I also like@Titus' issues with Infinity. I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning. His read on mastina also feels unnatural, propelled in part by a combination of paranoia and the general tendency of others (re: Nero & Heartless (at times)) to pressure her. On the other hand, I dislike the fact that Titus' scope and breadth of other players in the game is quite narrow. I would feel more comfortable with the slot if she attempted to engage others with more vigor.
I initially liked@Infinity's push to get the game rolling, so-to-speak, and that has always been a personal town-tell I use. I cannot definitively point to anything Infinity has pushed or pressured organically, but at the same time, he does ask beneficial questions and probe efficiently when things are "happening" in the thread. I feel uneasy about this slot, but not necessarily worried. Infinity, do you feel that Titus' game-long push on you is a non-issue?
I believe Heartless already asked this question, but@DrunkenPiper: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.
@SirCakez: You asked me to specifically look at the Pine interactions. I noticed, while reading D1, that you continually regarded the Pine-wagon as a poor lynch. You and I both know that I have been burned by reading too heavily into something like that before (re: College Mafia, where you soft-defended scum on D1). The key difference this game, however, is that the scum in question has flipped earlier than 3-way LYLO, yet nobody else seems to be calling attention to these associations (besides Infinity's VCA). What exactly were you hoping I gleaned from analyzing the Pine interactions?
The LUV/Peregrine slot is actually pretty null for me and hopefully Peregrine will contribute more.
I am comfortable sheeping mastina on BBmolla -- his content is unsatisfactory, mastina pointed out a key logical fallacy (re: SirCakez--Aj the Epic D1 voting patterns) that seemed to get buried, and the gambit actually seems quite plausible.
I would also lynch Aj toDay for a collection of pinging behavior I recall from my reread. I would have to dig deeper and review to shore up that scumread, but for now I just wanted to get my initial thoughts out there.
Not only that, he somehow suddenly dropped his scumreads on molla and AJ and his suspicions on titus just to scumread the people who are pushing him. Too much of an inconsistency to come from town imo. Also he went from not giving any big-picture opinions about the scumteam to claiming to know the entire 3-person scumteam. Yeah no. Rope.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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This is a good point actually. What do you think mastin?In post 2404, Titus wrote:Either scum had to risk a broken situation occurring by holding one of their vanillaize shots, or whenever Pine flipped we'd get 3 vanillaized claims for two shots.
Another issue I have with the molla!scum narrative is why pine would risk dying before using all his shots given the day1 wagon thing and him joining the rogue crew.
People need to engage the people they disagree with more.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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