The real folk blues [Canceled]

[Mirhawk]

First!

[Mirhawk]

Wow. I'll be back tomorrow, so I'll catch up then.

[Mirhawk]

Things, I'm still fifteen pages behind.

I'd guess rb as the scumkill as he was p/obviously town.

Vifam claimed in the PT for what it's worth, but his kill flavor seems kinda strange.

[Mirhawk]

I get townvibes from ascended masters, their demeanor strikes me as trying to solve the game.

[Mirhawk]

Yeah, my bad. I got behind over the weekend and catching up was kinda overwhelming.

[Mirhawk]

@FA: is that kill flavor on vifam indicative of one sort of kill, or two?

Also, would vifams gunsmith have worked on the individual with the katana/explosives/biological warfare?

These are good questions. I was assuming that it was one kill not two, but in retrospect two makes more sense.

I would tentatively guess that a gunsmith can't catch those, but I dunno.

[Mirhawk]

lol nvm then.

[Mirhawk]

I'm caught up and stuff now. I think things about people.

Maybe it's because there were so many posts in such a short period of time and I'm reading it after the fact, but I don't really see the Masters being in a position where I would call them responsible for the lynch. They weren't really even involved at the end. Some examples of what you think Nacho did that made them the driving force for this wagon would be appreciated.

I'm split on scrub. His posts are extremely reactionary and he doesn't seem to be scumhunting. But a quick meta dive revealed that that isn't indicative of either town or scum for him. I'm leaning scum as it seems like he's putting in less effort to finding scum then in some of his other games, and I think playing scum is harder then playing town which would be a problem in a game this dense. But that's largely circumstantial so eh.

People think things about Rach. I have to admit that I skimmed a lot of stuff while catching up, and that included Rach.

[Mirhawk]

3), cerb. Lurkers need to not lurk.

Spoiler: activity overview hereto

Insulting, I'm not even on there.

[Mirhawk]

idk. just interesting. the scum value shutting down discussion over prhunting?

Maybe, but unlikely. I'm not sure why scum would think that trying to reduce the number of posts will help them in a game this large, there's lots of other people to carry on the conversation still.

[Mirhawk]

I think it is Kraska Rach SpyreX and Kraska are all some kind of nefarious entity.

Mirhawk*

That means I'm included on the above list right?

[Mirhawk]

hey huh thats weird
gunsmith wouldnt detect katana or explosives? if those two were scum kills then what even is the point of the gunsmith

gunsmiths detect mafia as positive no matter what. They also detect cops as holding, and some other killy roles like vigs.


gunsmith is a weaker cop

Maybe, but not sure. Whats the point of separate kill flavors if people are identified as having guns when they make their kills without them?

I probably wouldn't make the assumption that all scum have guns in this game.

[Mirhawk]

Actually nevermind. Seeing as how the gunsmith's dead it doesn't really matter anyway.

[Mirhawk]

Ohh wow lukers making light of it im sorry dgb

VOTE: mirhawk

Ohh god an.effort post coming

Not to be pissy about this but you realize I was only actually gone for what? Three and a half days? I thought I'd have lots of time to catch up. Turns out I didn't.

[Mirhawk]

Is that directed at me? I'm scum with math? What gives you that impression?

[Mirhawk]

Guys join the masters wagon
Look at how they entered the thread
They didn't even acknowledge the maker flip or the wagon forming on them

Weak tea. Neither of those are explicitly scummy. Even added together its barely even meh.

If you're looking for something on Masters that I'll listen to talk about how they were strongarming the wagon yesterday. I still don't really see how they're any more guilty of that then several other people who were pushing that wagon.

[Mirhawk]

eeeeeh, I don't really like taking someone else's word on another players meta.

I mean I respect it as a reason you might be scumreading him, but your mileage wont go far with me on a meta based argument unless its something I've noticed myself as well.

[Mirhawk]

Nah, not listening to other players meta is kinda my jam.

I'm open to discussion on the strongarm thing.

[Mirhawk]

Man I already read like seventy pages today.

Ugh.

[Mirhawk]

Yeah so I went over Imperiums ISO as well as Masters and I'm not entirely sure what you're saying is similar about them. Its not the day two reaction thing you were saying is classic Nacho seeing as how Imperium died night one. Imperium spent a lot more time fluffposting and stalled having an opinion by spending a lot of time talking about snarky. Not really the same vibe as Masters.

That being said I did notice in reading Masters ISO that they aren't maybe as squeaky clean as I had thought. They are seemingly not very committed to either the Rach or Maker wagons (the rach wagon in particular feels poorly justified which is maybe odd seeing as how they were okay with flipping back to it at any time) and they have a suspicious pencheit for defending House (and to a lesser extent scrub).

pedit:
Ah! wtf's with all these posts goddamnit.

[Mirhawk]

Verifying that Vifam did state his intention to check Kraska for a gun in the PT.

[Mirhawk]

One of the main people, if not the main people. They barely considered alternatives.

The first half of this statement is incorrect, the second half is true.

[Mirhawk]

It's how they forced the wagon to Waco and shot down any alternatives that's the big similarity I'm seeing

God. Why didn't you just tell me what to look at specifically in the first place.

Not cool.

[Mirhawk]

How is it incorrect?

To be fair both your and my thoughts on this are really more opinions then facts. In either case I don't really feel that Masters did very much to push Makers wagon really. They actually felt kinda waffley the whole time. They stated more then once that they would rather be voting Rach, and I was under the impression they only flipped to Maker to suit some of their townreads.

I thought it was obvious, mb

No big.

[Mirhawk]

Skrub...doesn't look town to me.

[Mirhawk]

Drixx is a town poison doc.
Drixx is part of a scum ream which has a poison doc/protection of some sort, ehich he may be the possessor of.
Drixx IS the poisoner.

I think a town one would claim/not use their action.

So the other 2 are more likely.

I find Drixx kinda scummy (mostly due to some of House's behavior near the beginning of the game though) but I also think you're a little off base on that.

If either scum had a poisoner or if there was a third party poisoner I don't think they would fakeclaim Poison doc. Doing so would only leave them open to a possible CC from an actual poison doc, which they would know could exist in the game due to their own role being in the game.

Which means if Drixx is fakeclaiming poison Doc, it's likely that there is no actual poisoner in the game.

It also means that Lynching Drixx is pointless. There will eventually be a poisoner kill, which will to a certain extent prove their role. If after two or three nights there have been no poison kills we can safely assume it was a bullshit claim and he's scum.

[Mirhawk]

UGH. Klingoncelts posts between 2001 and 2006 are all terrible.

Are you reading the game?

[Mirhawk]

As far as I am concerned the possibilities for at least 1 of our dead mans are - 2 different bad guys in the neighborhood(kraska may or may not be their buddy), 1 bad guy in neighborhood and kraska bomb passive, 1 random shot and kraska bomb passive, 2 random shots on the same guy.

I don't think math is scum. Kraska could be. But we can save that for later and test any claim, I want to start with cleaning up the neighborhood of either mirhawk or davesaz. Both are lurking, both had inside info on vifam.

Frozen Angel confirmed that the kill on Vifam was a single kill.

I was actually going to rip on this post a lot more until I realized that you didn't know that.

[Mirhawk]

anyway im a 2 shot pgo, vigging me isnt an option like i said so lynch me today.

Why didn't you claim this day one? You weren't really doing anything that made me think you were trying to draw a scumkill either.

Also what is your characters name?

[Mirhawk]

VOTE: Expedience
Protection of Cakez feels really odd.

I actually find Cakez rather towny.

[Mirhawk]

Well yeah, flavor, let's break the game with it, because it's important. Or the kills wouldn't be seperated like that.

Jason would give each person with a killing ability different flavor, so you could know if the same person did the kill.

But, despite any wording, they were all standard kills blocked by bulletproof or detectable by Gunsmith.

I bring this up since we already had a Gunsmith flip.

My own reaserch on beebops flavor (I had to look it up, it's been so long since I saw it it makes me feel old) leads me to believe the katana kill was likely groupscum and was performed by Vicious. Who is kinda the big bad. His subordinates likely use guns.

The gun vig kill could have been the cowboy dude (whatisname), but realistically it could have been any number of characters from the show.

I'm not sure about the explosives/biological weapons as that doesn't really mesh with anyone.

[Mirhawk]

You don't believe kraska's claim?

It seems like the best way to explain the kill patterns.

What kill pattern?

it was 1 night.

If kraska is lying, there has to be scum a, scum b, vigilante, serial killer, since there are two kills on Vifam. kraska being PGO makes much more sense.

There are not two kills on Vifam.

[Mirhawk]

I seriously think we should lynch mirhawk today, he seems scummiest of the 3 neighbors who's alignment I do not know. I think getting the scum out of the neighborhood should be the highest priority. I feel that kraska was scummy or whatever, but I feel that at best this is a town with backwards priority on a testable claim.

I see??

[Mirhawk]

I seriously think we should lynch mirhawk today, he seems scummiest of the 3 neighbors who's alignment I do not know. I think getting the scum out of the neighborhood should be the highest priority. I feel that kraska was scummy or whatever, but I feel that at best this is a town with backwards priority on a testable claim.

I agree with all of this

I don't have strong reads in the neighborhood, I think it would be safest to leave it for later

when we can lynch RachMarie or Nero now

. Some of the neighbors are going to get picked off later, narrowing the pool.

Okay this is bad. It sounds like you're just desperate to lynch anyone who isn't you. Why would we lynch outside of the people in the PT?

VOTE: kraska

It's probably better to get Kraska first and if he flips scum then we can try to find out who her buddy is

Scrubs probably scum.

Ultra opportunistic.

[Mirhawk]

Vote: Mirhawk

You realize this brings up the sum total of your content today to asking someone to join your townblock and a naked vote right?

[Mirhawk]

Kraska: What is your kill flavor? How many shots of PGO do you have remaining?

Vifam claiming to investigate Kraska overnight doesn't make Kraska scum so the votes there are fairly nonsensical. The rest of the neighborhood looks good to decent, Mirhawk looks horrible.

Oh nevermind I missed this.

The votes on Kraska aren't nonsensical, your logic sucks. Kraska's kill flavor is pretty obviously bombs/biological weapons, the only way for it not to be is if Vifram was roleblocked before being killed.

Also I appreciate the strong stance on me, thanks.

[Mirhawk]

Like I don't have a lot of time right now but the reasons for killing kraska seem like moonbeams when we have confirmed scum in the neighborhood. If your scumbuddy saw a town PR claiming to investigate

anyone

, friend or foe, wouldn't you kill the shit out of that town PR?

The PGO claim doesn't really make sense as a claim coming from scum in this position. I'll have more to say once kraska answers the previous questions.

Confirmation of scum in the neighborhood only makes sense if Vifram WASN'T killed by the PGO. Which is probably not the case.

[Mirhawk]

Actually.

Hey bebop members: what exactly did vifam claim? This is very important.

The exact claim was Jet Black, Gunsmith. He then stated that he checked if people had guns.
Thats it.

[Mirhawk]

Cakez alignment is irrelevant to whether expediences protection feels odd or not.

If scum, defending buddy.
If town, white knighting.

Important thing is whether or not the protection makes sense etc.

Ja I feel you. I mostly just wanted to make a note of the fact that I'm finding Cakez pretty town. The bit with Expedience was actually kinda coincidental to that.

[Mirhawk]

Are you reading the game?

Well I'm certainly not.

At least you're up front about it.

Also kinda jelly.

[Mirhawk]

Pedit mirhawk, read my recent stream of consciousness wall, I sorta identify who thr explosives/bio weapon faction is.

I see it. Were there any named characters in that faction though? My knowledge about the flavor is mostly from reading up on the wiki, which game me some ideas about who it could be but I'm not totally sure.

I concur about vicious.

[Mirhawk]

That's cool. Seeing as how she part of a group or terrorists though we'll just lynch her if she claims that. The thing in particular that I'm looking for is to see if she claims a character who makes sense for her kill flavor who isn't a villain. If she can't come up with one we turf her.

[Mirhawk]

/Whoop whoop whoop

I'll actually catch up tonight.

[Mirhawk]

Geez, I was hoping to come back and realize that the conversation had somehow evolved to something useful in the last couple days. But nope, it still sucks. I don't even want to read the interveneing pages becuase I'm almost certain nothing of note happened on them.

Has Kraska given any sort of reason for not warning that she was a PGO on day one? Or perhaps a reason her iso looks like she's trying to draw a visit from town more then scum? As far as I'm concerned if you're not going to try and draw a scumkill as a PGO you're kinda obligated to warn town about your role so you don't end up (for example) murdering the town gunsmith.

Also some of you guys seriously need to skim Scrubs iso's from some of his completed games, It's super obvious he's mailing it in here. He isn't a new player and apparently he actually does things like "actually look for scum" in his other games, even his scumgames. The only reason I can think of for him not doing so here is because he thinks he doesn't have to, which feels like a scum attitude because his current reads are garbage. His literal top scumreads are on lurkers FOR LURKING. So weak.

[Mirhawk]

Also since I've gone too far to take back the interveneing pages thing you guys might want to reiterate any questions you were asking me.

[Mirhawk]

Maybe, what's the pamphlet about?

[Mirhawk]

The most common complaint against me in my games is that I don't scum hunt enough. I always try to do it, but I guess I suck at doing it properly. I don't know how you can say I'm not scum hunting though when you and half the people in this game aren't doing anything at all. It's weak that your only attack against me is meta.

You have four scumreads as of a couple pages ago right? why are you scum reading those particular players.

The thing I see in your meta that I don't see here is justification and you actually pushing your reads. The reads were what? Two lurkers, me (the lurkiest player in the neighborhood) and Kraksa (who I don't think I've ever seen you post reasons for thinking she's a good vote).

You account is an alt so I don't know if you get accused of that on your main, but you other games on this account do actually look like your trying to find scum. I just don't see that here, I feel that you're more just trying to look present.

[Mirhawk]

Yeah I'll buy into that.

Vote: Scrub

I don't have to be at the center to support it right? I like to do my charity work from a distance.

[Mirhawk]

I am judging you by your actual content this game. I'm also comparing it to your other completed games that you've played with the same account.

You never actually answered my question about your scumreads there. Seeing as how that would be something from this game that I'm asking you about why aren't you interested in that?

You seem rather defensive. You've spent most of the game making reactionary posts to players who have either criticized or voted you, why is that.

[Mirhawk]

That's one I suppose, What about the others?

[Mirhawk]

Your wagon is WELL shot of what it needs to go through. You've been defensive from the get go, even over one or two votes.

Your reasons for thinking dgb and Dandy are scum appears to be solely limited to one or two comments that they aren't posting much. The closest thing for a reason for PK seems to be.. omgus? You never actually explained anything for any of them.

@SpyreX
That is the dream.

[Mirhawk]

You're shifty Angel, but I like your moxie.

[Mirhawk]

Asking people why they voted for you isn't being defensive. And if you're just going to say whatever crap you want and act like its fact then you shouldn't even bother posting. I've explained myself five times over

I'm not calling you defensive because you asked people why they voted for you. I'm calling you defensive because you've almost exclusively focused your conversation on people who are scumreading you or have expressed doubt for you.

If I'm making stuff up then prove I'm lying, whining about it isn't going to make me go away.

[Mirhawk]

This is super scummy. Nacho never lurks like this as town.
Putting it in huge text because they are being allowed to coast for no reason

I've lynched him before for not playing the way I thought he should be playing and have gotten burned for it. Also, Nacho does lurk sometimes.

I dunno, I don't feel like they're going to be lynched anytime soon, but they are being kind of scummy and there are so many lurksack vig targets that they'll never draw a NK from either scum or the vig. I would call them best either investigated or saved for later.

[Mirhawk]

Hey Radical, welcome.

[Mirhawk]

3) There is scum in our hood and Mirhawk keeps insisting it is not the case and posting terribad bullshit in there.
4) SypreX hard defended Kraska and Mirhawk ruined my reaction test because Mirhawk likely knew something was up.

a) What I keep saying is that there is no evidence one way or the other to there being scum in the hood, the reason it keeps coming up in conversation is becuase I think its irresponsible how you're assuming that there is with no proof.
b) Maybe next time you want to do a reaction test with information I have access to you should maybe, i dunno, tell me you're doing one instead of assuming I'm going to use my amazing mind reader powers to realize why you posted information that wasn't correct. Also seeing as how you're scumreading me for doing this I don't see why you keep acting like you got no information out of it.

[Mirhawk]

There is no way that Skrub is a bus with all this people scum.

What does this even mean?

Realistically speaking I expect that there is likely at least one scum on the wagon, but It's not like the scum team are going to all bus at the same time.

[Mirhawk]

Math posted something that was discussed in the neighborhood incorrectly as a reaction test, I corrected it before anyone else had a chance to discuss it.

Gimmie a minute I'll find it.

[Mirhawk]

That took longer to find then I thought.

In 1867 I confirmed that Vifam intended to check Kraska last night.

I posted it in response to Math's 1854 because Math implied that Kraska was likely guilty because Vifam had been scumreading Kraska. Whereas he had actually stated explicitly that he intended to check Kraska.

I thought Math had made a mistake so I corrected it, Math doesn't see it that way.

[Mirhawk]

A PGO claim D2 is bad, yes. Absolutely agreed. Anti-town as fuck.

But there is quite literally no other (good) reason for anyone to think they're scum, once people extricated their heads from their asses and realized there was no reason to assume scum within the pool of kraska+hood.

Dunno I personally find her ISO to be the most damning thing on her. She decides as a PGO to not claim D1 to try and draw scum, that's fine. Or it would be if she didn't spend day one looking like she was trying to get Vig killed. I mean what part of her day one looks like she's trying to draw a skumkill?

[Mirhawk]

I don't think I've played with math before, I take it this is usual?

[Mirhawk]

I've already talked about this, but I believe the Kraska claim(or at least I'm willing to test it)

Who's volunteering to test it? It's more or less untestable seeing as how trading a PR for confirming a PGO claim is not worth it.

[Mirhawk]

What's the argument against me again? I can't remember what it was

I doubt anyone on your wagon actually knows.

Do you wear earplugs when you chainsaw?

[Mirhawk]

Panzer and davesaz: you guys agree with

3) There is scum in our hood and Mirhawk keeps insisting it is not the case and posting terribad bullshit in there.

?

Neither of you have seemed interested in pushing Mirhawk in thread so I'm curious if you agree with math's take here, or if you think they're just wrong, or if you think they're bullshitting.

I've already talked about this, but I believe the Kraska claim(or at least I'm willing to test it), so as a result of that, I do not currently believe that there is a scum in the neighborhood. I think this varsoon counterwagon is scummy as hell because I believe it's beating a dead horse.

Math's argument against Kraska is basically that she was scummy d1 and played her claimed role wrong therefore she is scum -> which makes Mirhawk her buddy who gave her the inside info. My counterargument is sometimes people play bad, man. I play bad all the time because I am bad. So if Kraska is bad town then Mirhawk probably isn't scum cause the most damning thing is gone.

I'm in on Skrub, Varsoon,or Exp for now. If something convincing comes up, I can be coerced into going a different direction. I 100% will not be on (another) Mirhawk wagon today.

1) They
2) One key element is missing from the above that is damning but if I share it Y happens and Y is bad.
3) Just stawp. Mirhawk's post in the hood said Mirhawk was faking caring about the game.
4) Of the reads Mirhawk did give after being poked do not make sense.
5) People play bad yes. However as soon as Vifam died the first post out of Kraska's mouth should have been "I am PGO. I killed Vifam." Then I would believe bad d1 play but to only claim it under hella pressure is fake as shit.

a) I've never been prodded, also what makes no sense about my reads? I want to hash out anything I got wrong so be specific.
b) Sarcasm is a thing, I understand it's hard to read sarcastically but still. I should think that it was obvious.
c) I actually kinda agree on the Kraska bit. It's a bit muddied by the fact that she said she didn't know that the biological weapons was part of her kill flavor but the explosion is still kinda a giveaway. A town player using Biological weapons in self defense does sound like bullshit though.

[Mirhawk]

The correct statement is there could be scum in our hood. It's not a masonry, but no guarantee there is scum either.
I think the sensible approach is to consider lynching the last one standing after the rest are NK'd, unless there is some town confirmation before that point.
The only rush lynching within the hood would be to clear it for safe conversation, which I would not call a priority.
Of course if we had an actual guilty and not circumstantial evidence, I'd be on that already.

This more or less sums up my current thoughts on the hood. I like having people around to sound my theories off anyways.

[Mirhawk]

The other argument is that I'm defensive when people form wagons on me

Hey Scrub, who's scum and why? Anyone other than Kraska.

[Mirhawk]

The beebop character wiki talks about some dude who was trying to kill everyone with some kind of nanomachine virus or something like that. Kraska is claiming to be that dudes girlfriend.

He's basically a terrorist and they're kinda associated with bombs in general so maybe that's a thing. I dunno.

I haven't watched the show in forever so I can't actually remember if the girlfriend actually has anything to do with what he's doing, or with bombs in general though. The wiki implied that she wasn't a part of his plot, but we all know how accurate wikipedia is, so eh.

Has anyone here actually watched the show recently?

[Mirhawk]

Civ V was the death of the series for me.

I only ever played I-III

I played a lot of 1-3 as well. I tried 5 briefly, but ended up finding it frustrating and quit soon after.

[Mirhawk]

Admitting you have a problem is the first step Ex.

[Mirhawk]

placeholder

You're the worst one. Yes you.

[Mirhawk]

Hey, mirhawk, try reading the game. I've already said that you're scum and explained why I think that over and over again.

Oh right OMGUS, I forgot.

Do me a favor and explain it in more depth. While you're at it explain your scumreads on Dripping Goofball, Varsoon, and Pisskop.

[Mirhawk]

Thad part of the reason why I don't believe Kraska is a pgo, let alone a town pgo

I personally subscribe to the theory that she's a Serial Killer PGO.

[Mirhawk]

I do not watch Japanese porn cartoons.

See Scrub, this is defensive. Now I don't believe Nero either.

[Mirhawk]

This attitude is why they're being allowed to coast
No let's not let them go to endgame, let's hang their asses now

I'm okay with this but where are you going to find another thirteen people? That's why I said I don't see them being lynched today.

[Mirhawk]

Wtf is wrong with you? It's not OMGUS. I called you scum and voted for you way before you voted for me. And if you want the explanation look through my fucking ISO. I already explained it 5 trillion times. Why are you turning me into a broken record?

If you want to get all factual on me then yes, you did vote me before I voted you. I however did express that I found you suspicious in both 1755 and stated that TAM had a suspicious tendency to protect you in 1863. You responded to that with a vote on me in 1864, which was the first time you'd expressed any thoughts of me being scum at all. Also I'd like to point out that I spent the first while of the day voting for nobody at all so I'm not sure how me voting for you afterwards matters.

Also the sum of your case on me is you stating that I gave you a "bad vibe" (your actual words) in 1864, and maybe you saying that you agreed with Jager that lynching in the neighborhood was the most important thing to do and that I was the scummiest person in the neighborhood in 2107.

It's possible that you think that constitutes as an actual explanation for your read, so I'll give you a hint... It's not.

[Mirhawk]

I subscribe to theory that we've had enuff talk about me today and ppl should mayve start looking for a scumzer

Oh, and also the poisoner.

So a Serial killing Paranoid gun owning Poisoner.

[Mirhawk]

I really hope that you're not serious.

I'm sorry to say that I'm actually a little bit serious about that.

[Mirhawk]

Also fyi I agree with the poisoner about the readslist. At the very least I should be listed as being more scummy then dandy or dgb who he has listed as his solid scumreads.

[Mirhawk]

Buddy

Friend

[Mirhawk]

I think there's scum in the hood. You did absolutely nothing on day 1 and spent the entirety of this day death tunneling me using weak reasoning. You've misrepped me and tried to doubt cast me countless times. In my eyes all of this points to you being scum. I notice that you decided to completely ignore me when I asked for your other scumreads.

You asked for my other scumreads? I don't actually remember seeing that. They're Kraska, (though I don't think she's groupscum) and to a lesser extent Masters. I tend to not make readslists but I thought my scumreads were fairly obvious. I don't talk about Masters much though so it would be easy to miss that.

As for the rest of this.

[Mirhawk]

Buddy

Friend

Chumchum

Tuna?

[Mirhawk]

I really hope that you're not serious.

I'm sorry to say that I'm actually a little bit serious about that.

So wait.

Let's get this straight.

You think there is a serial killer (by definition a person aligned with themselves) in a 32 person game. So you're saying someone has to face 1v31 odds?

This might be true for some mods (Varsoon likes to do this, but with closer to 1v19 odds), FA is not a bad mod. (No, Varsoon. You aren't a bad mod either. You just like to give people ridiculous odds). I will eat my shoe if there is an SK in this game.

Yeah its hard, but being a serial killer is always hard. In all honesty the odds of being the last player alive are only a little bit lower then in a 13 player game.

Don't ask about the math its almost certainly wrong, but I still think that I'm correct.

[Mirhawk]

Isn't there a claimed poison doc already? Aren't poisoner all Self-aligned?

I've never played with one before, bit I'm given to believe they can be any alignment. I would imagine they would make shitty Vig's though.

[Mirhawk]

I see we're back up. I'm probably not going to be able to catch up until tomorrow.

Til then.

[Mirhawk]

Yeah this is another dodge. Sorry for not being around, today will be the day, for real this time.

Masters is okay I guess, though I was never so much getting a scum vibe from them so much as a distinct lack of a town vibe. Have there been any developments in the reasons for voting them or is it the same as before?

[Mirhawk]

And wait, we're voting nos?

Seriously? Ugh I hate lurker lynches, he should be shot with a vig, not lynched.

[Mirhawk]

This stinks like compromise, gross.

We'd be better off lynching masters and shooting nos.

Or skrub, I haven't read the intervening pages yet but I'm sure he never stopped being scum.

[Mirhawk]

I likely will tomorrow. I still want to catch up on what I missed first.

[Mirhawk]

I don't quite understand how you went from claiming PGO and fully expecting to be lynched and then not getting lynched to whatever is happening now; from what I understood when you originally claimed, you figured that you'd have to die eventually (understood why stuff surrounding you looked weird), you seemed reasonable and normal and now you've shifted into full troll mode. From where I'm standing, it looks like you know you're not really going to live through until endgame so you're just having fun and being crazy until that point comes.

Been catching up, this is the first thing I've seen in a while that seems still kinda relevant. Partly out of hope that i think there still might be a chance for a Kraska lynch today.

This is actually something I noticed myself in Kraska's posting with the addition of the amount of time she spent aggressively defending.

She started off with the acceptance phase in which she looked as agreeable and accommodating as possible, stating that lynching her today was the right thing to do and that she was okay with it. When this attitude started paying dividends in townreads and it became apparent that she wasn't going to be autolynched for her claim her attitude did a 180 and she began aggressively defending against continued attempts to lynch her. Now (as of page 140) she's coasting.

At the time I thought it kinda odd that she went from understanding that town had to lynch her slot for safety to hard defending herself so I guess I'll just use this opportunity to remind everyone that shes a SK.

[Mirhawk]

Unless we want to not lynch her in hopes she shoots scum I guess.

[Mirhawk]

Vifam claimed in the PT for what it's worth, but

his kill flavor seems kinda strange.

Could you talk about this a bit? I'm not sure what you mean by strange sounding kill flavor; did you think it sounded town initially? The only thing that actually makes sense for this is that you thought it was two kills, but you never actually thought it was (as evidenced by your response to Cerb later on).

eeeeeh, I don't really like taking someone else's word on another players meta.

I mean I respect it as a reason you might be scumreading him, but your mileage wont go far with me on a meta based argument unless its something I've noticed myself as well.

Hard not to love someone shooting down Cakez's meta of me!

They are seemingly not very committed to either the Rach or Maker wagons (the rach wagon in particular feels poorly justified which is maybe odd seeing as how they were okay with flipping back to it at any time) and they have a suspicious pencheit for defending House (and to a lesser extent scrub).

I was serious when I said that the best way to play a game this large is to produce bodies quickly and reanalyze from there; this game seems depressing as hell since I've been gone and I don't think that the natural dance of "back and forth and back and forth and back and forth" when you have doubts is exactly good for game health. I wasn't really scumreading Rach or Zanos; I went with Rach because Vifam, and I went with Zanos because SpyreX. I thought that Zanos's opening in particular was kind of funky but I liked his response to me when I attacked his case there.

The votes on Kraska aren't nonsensical, your logic sucks. Kraska's kill flavor is pretty obviously bombs/biological weapons, the only way for it not to be is if Vifram was roleblocked before being killed.

Or killed before he had the chance to investigate.
Killing is before investigation on NAR.

Mirhawk, I don't really understand why you're scumreading Skrub - you make some mention of me defending him tying into it but you don't seem to suspect me particularly strongly, so ????

Specifically the thing that stood out to me was that he wasn't killed by a gun, not the possibility of dual kills. I don't think I considered that a possibility until someone else pointed it out.

I like to shoot down other people's cases if they're based primarily off meta so don't feel too special here . Meta is a useful tool, but I don't put much stock in most peoples unless it's my own pretty much because its almost impossible to conclusively prove to another player that your meta information is correct without a outrageous amount of research done by the person you're trying to convince.

That third bit I dunno what I think of. To an extent it is important (especially at the beginning of the game) to make some bodies to talk about, but if there isn't enough discussion while doing that there still won't be enough to talk about later. This is kinda unimportant theorycrafting, but I still kinda wanted to address my opinion on it. I was kinda of the opinion that you were pursuing those scumreads of your own initiative rather then following someone else, but then I'm also not very interested in talking about them so I guess I don't care that much.

I don't really know the order for NAR, so I'll take your word for it. But the fact is Kraska claimed the kill on Vifam anyways, and claimed that her kill flavor involved explosives as well. So even if she is lying, it would just be because she's scum.

I honestly don't recall all the specifics of my case on Skrub. It involved his lack of scumhunting and defensiveness when under light pressure, but I don't recall the rest of it. Do you still want me to look it up? I wasn't holding anything back, the whole thing is in my iso.

[Mirhawk]

Why did you dislike the readslist? Just because Skrub was scumreading a lot of lurkers earlier?

Oh yeah and there was that readslist too.

Problem wasn't that he was scumreading lurkers, but rather that his top scumreads were lurkers over some players that he seemed to actually have reasons to scumread.

[Mirhawk]

Yeah I know, I'm just super behind y'know.

[Mirhawk]

I assume Mirhawk wouldn't have made that comment without some kind of evidence, which puts you at a priority over a scumteam to me, because I know who you are. Don't try to frame lynching 3P as defending the Mafia. Both of 'em have to die before we can win, what difference does the order make?

I should clarify that I have a theory, not evidence.

I can lay it out though, basically it goes like this.

First of all a town player who defends themselves by blowing people up with biological weapons sounds super friggin sketchy in the first place. I haven't seen far enough into the show to confirm if this is something that the character she claimed to be would do, but using biological weapons for self defense sounds like horseshit.

Secondly, bulletproof serial killers aren't that uncommon so I don't see a SK with some sort of protective ability as being too unlikely. In fact if Vifam hadn't said who he was targeting we never would have know it was her at all, which does kinda make it a defensive ability.

Lastly, there was no kill last night that I would attribute to either a second scumteam or a SK so it's likely that Drixx's poison doc claim isn't fake. I mean if Kraska wasn't targeted there would have only been two kills last night, which isn't much for a game this size. Also since poison is kinda related to biological weapons so there's a tie in there (though kinda tenuous).

We're probably missing a kill from the poisoner yet, so I'm guessing that the poisoner is both Kraska and that shes a SK.

[Mirhawk]

I KNOOOOOOOOOOOOW .

I have to stop responding to old stuff, but I just cant help myslef.

[Mirhawk]

If she were a serial killer, that would imply that she killed them out of self-defense, which meant that she was parley to the neighborhood. Which she doesn't seem to be.

Nah I was thinking a PGO and a SK at the same time, which wouldn't require access to the neighborhood.

[Mirhawk]

I'm fairly certain I'm going to keep shitting it up, but on the topic of TAM and Nos I suppose I can at least elaborate on what I'm thinking.

Nos sucks and should eat bullets tonight. But lynching him is useless seeing as how regardless of alignment there isn't going to be any way to tell who was lynching him because he was a shitty lurksack and who was bussing him becuase he was a shitty lurksack.

Masters is okay I guess, I would rather lynch a couple other people but I have not yet seen any reason to not lynch them. Have they claimed? They should, seeing as how they are at the moment the only viable lynch over Nos, and lynching Nos instead of shooting him is stupid.

[Mirhawk]

I don't know a lot about how balance is done but I'm not sure you're right on that. We're talking about one (or two) extra kills that very well might never happen that have more or less equal chances of targeting either side (assuming that there are a decent number of scum PR's).

Anyways we more or less have to lynch her at some point. We're essentially talking about a player who has admitted to killing an investigative role last night without claiming PGO on day one. We have no way of ever confirming her role short of shoveling another PR into her and even that would only confirm role, not alignment. Vig's would die too so that's not happening. Are scum going to kill her at any point? Nope, they have a perfect reason not to, she'll be in the endgame guaranteed. At which point the remaining players are just going to have to have this same conversation over again with the caveat that if they choose wrong they loose the game.

[Mirhawk]

I enjoyed the adventures of birdkop.

[Mirhawk]

Someone shot Grapes, no way scum or a SK would have bothered with him seeing as how he was hardcore lurking.

[Mirhawk]

Idk if there is other support for a wagon on her, let's do it. Just seems like it's me and you.

The lack of support for an Expedience lynch tells me that Scum aren't getting on that wagon, so now I'm even more convinced that she's Scum.

Alas, if the votes aren't there that lynch won't happen today. Maybe some kind-hearted Townie will Vig her tonight or maybe we can lynch her tomorrow.

Of the others, I think Kraska's lynch will give us the most information. So I'll go there.

I'm always bemused when I see someone claiming that the reason that their favored lynch isn't going forward is because its on scum. Nevermind the fact that at least half the players are town and they obviously don't agree with you either, which would in reality make the person bringing it up the real reason for the lynch going nowhere seeing as how they're the one failing to convince others that they're right in the first place.

But nope, its a conspiracy, the black helicopters are circling the thread and are forcing everyone to not take your read seriously. #Tinfoilhats

I don't actually have an opinion on Expediance, but I saw this post and immediately felt like sharing.

[Mirhawk]

Hi. Where the heck did this nosterafu wagon come from?

Who do you think is a better lynch between me and Nosferatu? Why?

Probably you. It's pretty obvious that nosterafu's wagon is mostly comprised of scum. The wagon fell out of nowhere and got 9 votes in like 5 minutes. Nobody has even provided a case on him yet. Everyone is just like "he hasn't done much so let's lynch him". I don't know if nos is actually scum and the people on his wagon are from another faction or if he's a mislynch, but I'm just not comfortable with with quickly that all came together. You're a better lynch because you're the only other option

This is quite possibly the most legit post I've seen from Skrub so far.

[Mirhawk]

Camel?

[Mirhawk]

So you're not really able to make that stretchy connection to Kraska, and it bugs me that you tried.

Sorry?

I mean I said I have no evidence and the connection is only really a side effect of the words poisoner and biological weapons bouncing together in my mind and me thinking that they seemed sort of similar.

[Mirhawk]

Thanks.

I don't think it's a black helicopter thing so much as I think dumbass Townies want to lynch everyone that won't take each Day to a hundred pages, no matter how useless the fluffposts.

Whatever. We'll lose 4 more Townies today/tonight. Go team us.

I've always kinda thought its a symptom of people forgetting that this is in fact a team game.

Vanity wagons and refusals to work together push people into the last bit of the day. Then a compromise that everyone (just barely) agrees to is hammered out.

[Mirhawk]

These are more or less the same question so I'll address them together. I already said some of this earlier but deal with it.

We'd be better off lynching masters and shooting nos.

Walk me through that logic.

And wait, we're voting nos?

Seriously? Ugh I hate lurker lynches, he should be shot with a vig, not lynched.

Why? The "blah blah information" stuff is an inherently bad argument that doesn't actually make sense, is that what your getting at here?

First the logic is that lynching an obvious target like Nos means that every person on or off the wagon more or less has a fairly valid reason for being there. If he's scum there's no functional way to determine which people were lynching him for lurking and which ones were bussing a lurking teammate. Or alternatively if he's town there's is realistically no difference between the groups at all.

Even the people who don't vote him as either alignment are pretty much in the clear since they just have to say they didn't want to lynch a lurker. Which is a pretty easy argument to make seeing as how apparently half the town feels that way.

Now specifically in regards to you nachocheese I find that statement pretty stilted. I mean this is a pretty solid survivalistic move from you. My opinion of you as a player more or less requires me to assume that you already understand both sides of the argument, and that you are rallying for the side that there's no such thing as one lynch having more information then another solely to make sure you're not lynched.

[Mirhawk]

I'm undecided on Masters and I don't think Nos is worthwhile. I'd pile on masters if I had to but really what are people thinking about Kraska? We actually DO have to lynch her eventually.

[Mirhawk]

The whole thing. Every word.

I agree, that sounded like a big steamy pile.

[Mirhawk]

I could see Nos flipping some sort of third party or second scum team but there is definitely scum all over this wagon

I more or less completely agree with this. Weather Nos is Town or Scum that wagon is dirty.

[Mirhawk]

hiho?

I've said several times I think she's a SK, so I'm not sure how that implies that I'm calling myself scum. I suppose she could just be a scum PGO though. Not sure why you seem to think I shouldn't make note of that just because It makes me look bad, that isn't really the way I play.

@Math
No sweat, we actually have a lot of time remaining considering how active this game is. In either case I don't see much of a chance of anyone switching, but I still wanted to throw that out there to see if there were any bites.

[Mirhawk]

I can't believe we didn't lynch Skrub, what is this town doing?

[Mirhawk]

Thank god. I've been wanting Drixx to say something about the friggin poison doc for literally ever.

Anyways, seeing as how there hadn't been a miracle surge of Kraska votes i the last fifteen minutes I'll go where the buffalo roam.

Unvote
Vote: Masters

Masters is obviously superior (for reasons previously stated), besides the vig can still shoot Nos and we get both of their flips so everyone wins.

[Mirhawk]

On a scale of one to ten how embarrassing would it be for me to admit I was kinda serious?

[Mirhawk]

Okay that's good, I was worried about my image.

I was at least half serious.

[Mirhawk]

Nobody was willing to compromise so I had to give in

There's a huge TAM wagon right now though?????

Hi. Where the heck did this nosterafu wagon come from?

Who do you think is a better lynch between me and Nosferatu? Why?

Probably you. It's pretty obvious that nosterafu's wagon is mostly comprised of scum. The wagon fell out of nowhere and got 9 votes in like 5 minutes. Nobody has even provided a case on him yet. Everyone is just like "he hasn't done much so let's lynch him". I don't know if nos is actually scum and the people on his wagon are from another faction or if he's a mislynch, but I'm just not comfortable with with quickly that all came together. You're a better lynch because you're the only other option

This is quite possibly the most legit post I've seen from Skrub so far.

I didn't see this post from Skrub, ya it's awesome.
I would still lynch him tho.

I am beginning to lose faith on the Drixx slot again

It's like everything you say is custom made to make me think you're town.

Get out of my head!!