Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Toaster Strudel]

I am replacing Nightson.

[Toaster Strudel]

You chewed off my brain so it will be a challenge for me to understand how the voting works in this game. I'll have to think with all my frosting.

[Toaster Strudel]

I am reading the thread. So far, I think MoS and PJ are town.

[Toaster Strudel]

How far had you read when making that post, TS?

To be perfectly honest, I've been reading the game backwards. I am on page 49.

[Toaster Strudel]

How far had you read when making that post, TS?

Do you disagree with my conclusion? Answer quickly, don't think about it!

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't think Yos is making stuff up, I think his post made sense.

[Toaster Strudel]

I trust Yos and I will go along with his gut feelings.

unvote all: vote DragonsofSummer

- with apologies to the brave newcomer.

[Toaster Strudel]

Toaster Strudel seems to have read the thread and seems to have a reasonable read on people. Toaster Strudel, would you like to submit your top 3 suspects list at the moment?

I will - give me a coupla days.

[Toaster Strudel]

I trust Yos and I will go along with his gut feelings.

unvote all: vote DragonsofSummer

- with apologies to the brave newcomer.

TS, what do you think of LuckayLuck's playstyle? I am curious.

This question took me by surprise, and made me uneasy. Why LuckayLuck, I wondered, since this player was not part of the immediate discussion?

Very odd.

One think is certain is that LL has been active in other games, but not this one, for some 8 days now. His latest posts hinge on his following other players he feels are pro-Town and admits to skimming the game. He appears to be Mason with Glork? Did I get that correctly? He seems Townie enough, but along the lines of extreme wishy-washiness, buddying up to the more aggressive players, to the point of appearing completely subservient. I can see how this would look scummy, but together with the Mason claim... is the scum trying to pass as a Mason group? I doubt it, as there would be a chance of the existence of a legitimate Mason group. I'll keep LL in mind.

[Toaster Strudel]

Olio: This post here

You need to get more aggressive, LL. Process of elimination doesn't generally work as well as I think you think it does.


(I hope the above sentence made sense. It makes sense when I read it, but it's 2 AM and I've been reading and writing about philosophy for a good four hours.)

My targets are lame. I admit it! I'll leave the aggression to you,

mason-buddy!

I'll just keep defending people like MBL.

[...]

Emphasis mine.

[Toaster Strudel]

My first thought was that Glork might be a scum Mason. But then it would give it away if LL was revealed to be a Mason upon death.

That's settles it for me. In addition to DragonsogfSummer,

vote: LuckayLuck

Geez... anyone else I should pay particular attention to?

[Toaster Strudel]

Personally, in a late replacement game like this, I like to ease into the game slowly, but don't worry, I will catch up and catch on.

PJ, LL's behavior could go either way. I could see it from a Townie perspective as well. Granted, it's poor Town play, but in light of his Mason claim, his following of other players made sense. Maybe some of the other players he followed were unclaimed Mason buddies.

But if LL is no Mason, as is denied by Glork, then I don't know what on Earth LL is doing, but it seems all wrong, and I find the whole picture quite unsettling. Hence the vote.

[Toaster Strudel]

What are we waiting for, now?

[Toaster Strudel]

I echo Fritzler's sentiment, Gandhi and all.

SV is right, I don't think what the king has done is particularly useful.

It's time the king takes some decisive action.

[Toaster Strudel]

Will something ever happen today????

[Toaster Strudel]

I hope the next king is Fritzler, he'll take a decision!

[Toaster Strudel]

Count me in for the revolution.

[Toaster Strudel]

The king must be de-crowned ASAP.

[Toaster Strudel]

Kill the king.

[Toaster Strudel]

Mod is dead, king is dead...

[Toaster Strudel]

You guys should let me be king again. I'll execute the scums, I promise!

Quickly?

[Toaster Strudel]

Restart? Maybe.

Quesy needs to get back first though.

Just a bit of creative modding and replacing the king with someone more action-oriented should do.

[Toaster Strudel]

If I am annointed king... tomorrow will last 24 hours!

[Toaster Strudel]

Hurray for Thok!

Praise be!

[Toaster Strudel]

OK. There is a nonretractable deadline set for March 12; if somebody has not been executed by that date then King Smashy will be killed for incompetence.

Thok RULES!!!

@Smashy - CES is right. Just kill someone already. All our feet are sore for standing around for months waiting for the surprise beheading.

[Toaster Strudel]

Kill LuckayLuck already.

[Toaster Strudel]

Is there anything to do while Smashy contemplates smashing down the hammah?

[Toaster Strudel]

I did post my suspicions, so I will wait unless Smashy posts something.

[Toaster Strudel]

Pick one! Anyone! Gah!

[Toaster Strudel]

Praise be to His Royal Highest Yosarian II.

[Toaster Strudel]

Oh, I meant Royal Highness of course.

Is it just me, or is it hard to get a read on people in this game?

[Toaster Strudel]

OK then. I will get a chance hopefully tonight or tomorrow and do a full ecal on MoS. I just wanted to stay out otf the posting novels and such, but if you want one you'll get one. until then

UnVote all, Vote: Mastermind of Sin

ill prove it in a later post.

I love a good OMGUS. We got ourselves a nervous scummyscum

Oh yeah, I love it. What's a full ecal?

[Toaster Strudel]

Make stuff up it's more fun and you'll waste less time.

[Toaster Strudel]

Okay.

Vote: Zindaras, Lowell

They should probably die.

Unassailable logic.

Vote: Zindaras, Lowell

[Toaster Strudel]

Mnowax is giving me a bad vibe.

vote Mnowax

Mnowax is the bad vibe player in every game. What stood out?

[Toaster Strudel]

vote: Smashy

and I'll vote Yos too if he takes too long making up his mind!

[Toaster Strudel]

Sad.

vote:mnowax

[Toaster Strudel]

Yos, any timeline to the execution? Maybe that will motivate people. Including me to be perfectly honest.

[Toaster Strudel]

I've been prodded.

I am in favor of the king culling the herd. Anyone on the execution list is good with me, except perhaps VitaminR, which appears to be the less scummy one in the lot.

[Toaster Strudel]

I would weep if the crash lost the execution orders.

[Toaster Strudel]

I have to support PJ's argument against BM/Smashy/DR.

RafK/mnowax don't ring alarm bells. Mnowax in particular always seems on the scummy side, I think that's his playstyle.

[Toaster Strudel]

Considering how painfully long it is to lynch someone in this game, zombies are extremely annoying. They undo all of yesterday's work, krrrap!!!

I think Yos is town. MoS's overwhelming eagerness reminds me of his behavior in Bad Idea Mafia II where he was the Godfather.

And I'll support PJ's campaign. I want to test PJ, really.

vote: MoS, SV

[Toaster Strudel]

Sorry to sound so dense, so dense as to be easily mistaken for a black hole, but what does Fritz's post mean? I am afraid I do not speak Fritzlish.

[Toaster Strudel]

This latest missive from MoS is uber-weird. PRE-PLANNED PLAYSTYLE???

Gimme a break.

vote: MoS

[Toaster Strudel]

GG retention skills...

What's GG?

[Toaster Strudel]

Mod

, I'd like to know the status of Der Hammer, Fritzler, K-Scope, Voidybuns, Toaster Strudel and VitaminR.

Status: Impatient, murderous, cranky, bored.

Mood: Still here.

[Toaster Strudel]

Thesp is a genius. I am in awe.

I am disappointed that his latest missive didn't end with a vote.

Cuz I would have voted anyone Thesp voted for, after such an eloquent discourse.

[Toaster Strudel]

OMG PJ is a genius too. I am sorry but I must defer to brains that are so much more sophisticated and better irrigated than the bean-sized, oxygen-starved bit of grey matter tightly housed in my thick skull.

vote: Der Hammer

- secret handshake with Thesp, I will never wash hands again.

vote: spectrumvoid
vote: VitaminR
vote: mnowax

Love you PJ.

[Toaster Strudel]

When is Zindaras expected to act on our recommendations? The populace is eager to see a head roll into a wicker basket.

[Toaster Strudel]

89 pages, still 16 players.

EXECUTE SOMEONE ALREADY!!!!

[Toaster Strudel]

Kill someone already.

[Toaster Strudel]

How come no one has been executed yet?

[Toaster Strudel]

Gotta love the effort you people are putting into the game...

It would help if executions were swifter.

[Toaster Strudel]

98 pages, still 16 players.

The king still doesn't know who to execute, despite the valiant and commendable efforts of players other than myself.

CULL THE BLOODY HERD!!!

Argh!

[Toaster Strudel]

If it speeds things up, I welcome it.

[Toaster Strudel]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Well, executions make discussion points. Besides, kings should be the ones waving with their scepters and should stir up discussion against the people he/she suspects. I'm not seeing the king do that at the moment.[/quote]
Well said. We have some very clever players (I am not clever) that take the time to write beautiful stuff. However, since we again lack leadership, these discussions are occurring in a vacuum, as if we were sailing a boat with no captain and no destination.

[Toaster Strudel]

If I had been selected King, someone would be dead already.

[Toaster Strudel]

If I had been selected King, someone would be dead already.

This is clearly why you were not selected.

I think I might have smitten Fritzler though... it's not a bad idea you know.

[Toaster Strudel]

[quote=PJ's coat tails]2.) Post 2229 by spectrumvoid (followed by other posts) shows that SV favored killing Fritz over VitaminR. Noted. [/quote]

I don't know whether SV was distancing herself from Fritzler, or trying to look like she was distancing. The only way to find out is to kill Fritzler.

[Toaster Strudel]

In my opinion, the most logical thing to remark is that Voidybuns is defending Vitty.

That could also be true.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd be happy with an execution of Fritzler or VitaminR, because SV distanced herself from one with suspicion, perhaps to protect the other. Of the two, my preference would actually be VitaminR, now that I think about it.

[Toaster Strudel]

Question: So if scum were in a list of 3, and preferred one over the other, does that make one of the other two scum? It could be there case that the other two were town and the scum decided they better have a preference out of the two. You make it seem like simply because Fritz/VitR happened to be on the same list one of them must be scum because SV gave a preference of executing Fritz over VitR.

Possible, but not the most likely explanation.

[Toaster Strudel]

Yeah, near 100 pages, still 14 players... that's a lot of read-through. But limiting to 2 or 3 players is a good idea.

[Toaster Strudel]

Lemme start with Fritzler.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 345#443345

Claims Pookyscum is "good guy."

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 346#443346
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 900#443900
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 901#443901
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 206#445206
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 894#455894
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 438#460438
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 171#463171
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 853#471853
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 983#495983
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 181#584181
Wants to kill townie (CTD).

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 205#466205

Claims to be scum with Pooky, in broad daylight.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 697#486697
Wants to kill townie (Nightson/Vikingfan/Toaster Strudel)

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 244#511244
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 793#512793
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 171#543171
Wants to kill ThAdmiral (Olio/StallingChamp/ChannelDelibird)

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 171#543171
Wants to kill MoS

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 326#545326
Claims to know VitaminR (rep. DragonsofSummer/Phoebus) is scum.

vote: Fritzler

[Toaster Strudel]

OMG next I have to read all ten pages of MoS's literary output... yikes.

[Toaster Strudel]

you're supposed to do the two below you

Well, I am #10 on the list. Doesn't "below" me, in this case, mean #9 and #8??? That would be Fritzler and MoS. No?

It's an ordered list, not a heap of cards.

[Toaster Strudel]

Let's see who is "pwned" when you are executed, and turn up scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

Let's see who is "pwned" when you are executed, and turn up scum.

so you want to kill me and think wanting to kill townies is a scumtrait?

interesting

someone make ts king tomorrow

then you guys can kill he rthe day after

I am up for the plan.

[Toaster Strudel]

Here's my second analysis. mnowax2.

Pooky and SV were scum. Fritzler protected Pooky and claimed to be Pooky's scumbuddy. Fritzler wanted to kill CTD real bad, (Nightson/Vikingfan/Toaster Strudel), (Olio/StallingChamp/ChannelDelibird), MoS and (VitaminR/DragonsofSummer/Phoebus).

Now on to monowax2.

He wanted to kill MoS, thinks PJ is town. Defended SVscum, favoring VitR and Fritzler for the lynch. Then said he was up for an SV lynch, voted Yos and Frtizler.

I think he might be scum for defending SV, then saying he'd be up for an SV lynch, but then voting for a whole bunch of other people instead.

[Toaster Strudel]

Aye, now I have to answer MoS's questions... so many.

(1) Why did you just follow CES's votes (which had no reason) and give no reason of your own?
(2) Why did you vote Smashy without reason?
(7) What reason did you have for voting DH, SV, VitR, and mnowax2?
(4) Why did you later think mnowax was town again? (these were about mnowax1).
(6) Why did you vote SV without giving any reason for it?
(8)Why was Fritzler one of your preferred lynches, and why did you not want VitR to be lynched, even though you voted for him?

The answers are already in the the posts where I voted and expressed my opinions. For example, for (7), I was agreeing with PJ's analysis, and I clearly stated that. And I've also explained why I think Fritzler is scum quite clearly http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 679#644679 - so you and everybody can go and read my posts, it's all there.

Your questions are worded in a way to make it look like there is scum happenin' - but a lot of players might interpret things differently.

(3) Why did you say that you think mnowax gives bad vibes naturally, not as scum, and then later vote him without an explanation? That was a bit of metagaming, I was in a game with him I think at the time, and he was scummy as hell. And I think he was town.
(5) How does my behavior compare to Bad Idea II? - I didn't play that game, but DrippingGoofball tells me that the two games have different concepts, and you were Godfather, and it's not an idea to use that game to metagame you.
(9) Why is Fritz wanting to kill me evidence of his scumminess, when you want to kill me as well? I want to kill you? - It's not evidence of scumminess or not, since your alignment is unknown, but I wanted to record the fact that he ONCE posted that he wanted to kill you. Might be useful later.

[Toaster Strudel]

There is a lot wrong with this post, and I'm highly unsatisfied with TS's answers, but I'm going to sleep now, so I'll try to answer tonight sometime.

Yep, well, I didn't answer it in a manner to satisfy you, because all your questions are worded on the model of "when did you stop beating your wife" and I am not foolish enough to waste my time answering your twisted questions, especially since you can find the answers in the thread yourself, all the answers are there, and I don't need to repeat them, and I don't want to repeat them.

If I am executed, it will help the town, because there are too many players, too many pages to this game, not enough evidence to go on because of the game mechanic, and little hope of it picking up pace.

We need to cull the herd to a manageable size, and at a good clip. Cutting down on useless players like Fritzler or even myself is a good idea overall.

[Toaster Strudel]

@MoS

So I followed CES's reasonless vote. So what?

Anything

to get this game moving. For Smashy's vote I believe I was going along with the mood of impatience with his reign, I've made no secret that I am impatient in this game. For the rest, no I didn't give reasons "of my own" but I did agree with the reasons of others. Got a problem with that? I am glad that you admit your questions are "slightly" loaded - but some might think they are fully loaded. I have to admit I don't find this game particularly stimulating, some of it my own fault; we have some great players, but I don't like the Kingmaker type mechanic and I won't ever sign up for a Kingmaker type game again.

~~~~~

I do find VitaminR's analysis of Fritzler ( and his conclusion that Fritzler isn't scummy) interesting in view of the fact VitaminR is one of the players that Fritzler never mentions at all. Distancing maybe? I dunno.

Also, seeing that I already analyzed Fritzler (out of sequence, mind you) I wonder why VitaminR didn't volunteer to analyze the guy I was supposed to analyse instead of Fritzler. Maybe it was important for VitaminR not to miss an opportunity to defend Fritzler.

[Toaster Strudel]

Mnowax is even more annoying and apathetic than me.

That's quite a feat.

vote: mnowax

[Toaster Strudel]

That might be the worst example of an OMGUS vote I've ever seen.

I know, especially since I am the one voting for Mnowax...

[Toaster Strudel]

I'll be leaving out of town on Saturday, limited access is foreseen for a period of 2.5 weeks.

I don't have night choices so everything is under control.

[Toaster Strudel]

I believe PJ.

[Toaster Strudel]

Wiggle, wiggle, nope, can't wiggle.

PJ strikes me as pro-town. He's trying to find scum in earnest. He might be real smooth, but I can't believe he'd be that smooth.

[Toaster Strudel]

vote: Fritzler

[Toaster Strudel]

At this point, as I've been saying, Fritzer is quite high on my personal list of suspicion. He hasn't done much this game, and what he has done has been almost universally anti-town.

I do want to hear in the near future what everyone would think about a Fritzer execution.

Exactly correct. Uncharacteristically, Fritler IS dead easy to read in this game, because he has done nothing, but absolutely nothing that was pro-town, and absolutely everything he did do was anti-town.

I am 100% behind a Fritlzer execution and I will front the cheerleader\\ing section when it happens.

I will add that the only problem I have with PJ thus far is that he seems to go easy on Fritzler. PJ knows you can always say that Fritzler is unreadable. However this game is an exception. I expect more from PJ. If Fritzler turns up scum... and we'll have to execute him sooner or later, so might as well be sooner, then I will have to change my mind, and look at the real possibility that PJ might be Fritzler's scummbuddy.

[Toaster Strudel]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="Yosarian2"]Heh...I agree with PJ, so therefore I'm scum with him?[/quote]Agreeing with someone is a scumtell.[/quote]
Hey! I agreed with PJ, too. How come you're not including me in the scumlist? I feel left out.

[Toaster Strudel]

Will have no internet access for 2 weeks beginning Thursday.

[Toaster Strudel]

I anyone else here amused that mnowax accuses me of making "few votes"?

Yep, I'm laughing.

vote: Fritzler

[Toaster Strudel]

ADVERTISEMENT:

Make me King and tomorrow will be the shortest day ever as I execute Fritzler in my first post.

Wait! That's not all! I'll toss in, for free, at absolutely no charge, a gratuitous vote for an already-dead player!

I am not satisfied unless you are satisfied. If you are you are not completely delighted with the execution, I will happily refund your vote, no questions asked. I offer you a 100% unconditional money back guarantee.

[Toaster Strudel]

What do you think of DR/smashy/BM/second coming of mnowax, TS?

It's your job to execute him. I don't care if you use the electrical chair, a nice tight noose, or a big old needle. DeadRikamaru's "reign" does it for me, I don't know why this guy's still alive.

[Toaster Strudel]

Me? I thought it was obvious by now. MoS!

lesser to thadmiral and fritz.

You're busing AT LEAST ONE of these three players. Thanks for the tip, scumbag.

[Toaster Strudel]

mnowax wouldn't have the balls (or the chance) to bus me, because I'd bus him a hell of a lot faster than he could bus me.

You could have agreed to a scenario beforehand... but that's unlikely. More likely he's busing ThAdmiral or Fritzler.

[Toaster Strudel]

vote: mnowax

'cuz DeadRik - need I say more?

[Toaster Strudel]

ThAdmiral, can you give your thoughts on Yos2 and PJ?

Yos2: since his last kingship I am inclined to believe he is town. I don't think scum were under so much pressure that they felt they had to throw one of their own under a bus at that point.

PJ: He seems to do a lot of long-form analysis. Most of the time the layout is quite good and the content seems to be okay as well. I don't really know whether this makes him more town or more scum, but I am inclined to say more scum. Sort of a "trying to look helpful" thing. On the other hand he could just be being helpful.

:not helpful:

[Toaster Strudel]

Hey let's execute someone!

:helpful:

[Toaster Strudel]

Great apathy, people! Let's keep it up!

:goodposting:

[Toaster Strudel]

Being very result-oriented, I'd like to suggest that we execute ThAdmiral, and perform an autopsy. A sort of forensic mafia where we learn more from the corpse than from the living player.

[Toaster Strudel]

Secondly, Kingmaker 2 now has the most posts of any mafia game in MS history, passing Lights Out 2 a few posts ago.

Anoint me King and I shall buck that trend like no other ruler before me! My reign will be referred to as "Toaster the Brief" in all future history books. A leader of few words - yet vigorous with the axe, generous with the guillotine, and liberal with the handing out of death sentences.

[Toaster Strudel]

until recently I wanted my kingship to require one post and two words).

It's too late for that, but maybe your next post should be the last of your reign, and contain only two fateful words. The crowd of your adoring subjects would cheer loudly.

Just a suggestion.

[Toaster Strudel]

Ok, so it seems the King's top 3 suspects are TheAdmeral, Fritz, and TS.

TheAdmeral: What do you think about Fritzer and TS?

If the canary won't sing, hang him!

[Toaster Strudel]

TheAdmeral: What do you think about Fritzer and TS?

They both seem to want to kill people really quickly.

Your powers of observations are astounding.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS

- if you were king tomorrow, and without seeing the outcome of today's execution, what are the two words you would use in your kingship?

Just to make it exciting, and add a little suspense, it will be a random choice of "Execute: Fritzler" or "Execute: mnowax" - like you say, cuz someone is gonna have to do it.

[Toaster Strudel]

Now, why don't you answer the questions I've asked you, Mr. Scum? Stop avoiding legitimate concerns just because you're the goddamn king and get to make the execution. It's not protown to sit around and ignore other people's concerns just so that you can run the show how you want to.

Anoint Toaster Strudel as ruler of the Kingdom tomorrow.

If I feel especially cruel and despotic, I might even organize a duel between Fritzler and mnowax. To provide some sadistic entertainment for the adoring crowd of my servile subjects.

[Toaster Strudel]

Joy.

Let's take today slow and steady

. I don't think we can afford any mistakes.

Argh! Ack! AAAaAaaaaaargh! Not slow... oh please...

Just when I was fantasizing about executing mnowax quickly... talk about a bucket of cold water.

[Toaster Strudel]

Fritz, was that the real reason why you were lurking so much in this game? must have been.

oh yea

Hey, you know what's NOT going to happen in this game? King Mnowax II.

[Toaster Strudel]

Argh! If only MOS would have let me execute mnowax...

[Toaster Strudel]

oh by the way is anyone going to vote me for "evading the noose" scummy? Or the "i was so scummy that i looked not scummy, but actually was scummy" scummy?

No vote from me, you scumbag... Had MoS had the good sense to make me king, you'd be kneeling at the guillotine with your head in a basket.

[Toaster Strudel]

Congrats to PJ for looking studiously townish and fooling the pants off MoS.

[Toaster Strudel]

I

do

have a habit of getting people to take off their pants around me. I think it's more of a curse than a blessing, though.

Depends. Do you work in an old age home, or do you train cheerleaders?

[Toaster Strudel]

Toaster Strudel (rep. Nightson / Vikingfan) - useless.

Useless? I had a great program of social reforms (speeding up the day) and pledged to execute mnowax! I had the clearest electoral platform of all the players! If you would have wanted to mnowax yourself, making me King would have been your best bet.

[Toaster Strudel]

I wasn't quite lurking, but I was pretty useless. Like I said earlier in the game, Kingmaker type games aren't for me.

Votes don't make a difference. The multiple voting thing is also ridiculous, how can you really tell that someone is scummy or not, when they vote for 3 people at a time?

I felt it wasn't worth investing effort in this game, that the daily outcome was a crapshoot.

Picking the same king day several times is a bad idea - putting your eggs in the same basket.

Even then - I think this game's outcome was nearly random.

[Toaster Strudel]

...which applies to you as well, TS.

Actually, I might have felt more involved in the game if, even for a day, I had a say one way or another.

[Toaster Strudel]

...which applies to you as well, TS.

Actually, I might have felt more involved in the game if, even for a day, I had a say one way or another.

The thing is, unless you were more involved in the game, there was no way you were ever going to BE king.

It's a catch-22. Had I been somewhat more active, say, as active as you, I might not have been king anyway. I got trapped in mind-numbing boredom I guess. The pointlessness of it all.

Influencing the king? First off, the King might have been scum so what's the point, and with multiple useless votes, there was too much garbage information to go through trying to find the actual scum - and if you're right on and have actually found scum, you get nightkilled. Yawn. But then how assiduously can you go after a player, when the "evidence" is so diffuse and muddled?

The "pro" of being totally useless is that you don't get nightkilled... which in this game was not much of an advantage.

[Toaster Strudel]

The fact that you never had a say is no excuse to lurk and take potshots at people without really trying.

You can call it an excuse, I call it a reason.