SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[Sensei]

Intense.

[Sensei]

Just had an idea.

Unlimited lurker purge. That is all.

You've been warned~

[Sensei]

Scum can kill anyone they want N1 except for Drixx. That's a scary thought.

Same goes for most mafia games, though. And by day two we'll have better reads/more obvtown to choose from because there will have been flips and stuff.

Drixx is looking pretty town so far anyway.

[Sensei]

on other notes ABR might be town.

Why?

[Sensei]

This probably isn't the most productive line of dialogue to be having. Even if the chance of scum not knowing the optimal time to kill an MC is probably small.

ZZZX might be town, though.

[Sensei]

Is the game any good?

All this gorgeous artwork Varsoon is using for the flavor is tempting alone.

I really enjoy the game, but it can be quite difficult and directionless.
What really shines are the combat mechanics.
I also like that each character's scenario is roughly 8 hours long. You get a good feeling of 'progression' with minimal RPG grind.
I've probably returned to it more than any RPG for these reasons alone.

[Sensei]

The not-miller claim was pretty null, imo.

[Sensei]

ZZZX is the only person I think I've seen before so far and he's already posted more in this game than all my other games with him combined. I think that's a good thing?

It's good and bad.

[Sensei]

That's a mighty bold question coming from a slot who hasn't given a read in about 20 posts.

What in particular would you like my thoughts on?

[Sensei]

I gave my reads about town reading someone and I'm asking questions to help me understand them better

everything. the way people townblocking. your idea about drixx , stuffs like that ...

~Rylai

Yea you actually did give a few reads, my bad. Already said I think drixx is town and it's not at all to do with flavor.

Don't necessarily have a problem with how 'people are townblocking.' People play however they want to play after all. For me it's kinda early and especially because I'm still null on a lot of people (mostly those who haven't shown up yet) I feel like my reads won't be as well developed without at least getting a glimpse of the grand scheme of things.

DS is the only person picking up town reads that I don't super agree with atm anyway. He's pretty null.

I sorta like drunken pirates posts, zzzx posts feel unfiltered. DGB's entrance was alright, I have a tendency to read posting that's delivered in a stream of consciousness sorta way as town (unless it looks faked) if I'm nodding along with what they're saying mostly. AA9s entrance made me lol, so I'm gonna lean town there.

[Sensei]

What don't you like about the wagon?

[Sensei]

Interesting soft. I don't think this was hinted at in the rules. If it was, someone please correct me.

-Cerb

I think she thinks it was in regards to one of those technique thingys in the OP.

[Sensei]

Despair also sounds nice. Might plan a vacation there.

[Sensei]

VOTE: Fluminator

I get it now. Also his posts are pretty dry.

[Sensei]

This post makes me uncomfortable

y?

[Sensei]

Sensei, what do you 'get' now? What does dry mean? Sentinel gives me bad vibes but I'm kind of agreeing with them on how I don't like this wagon.

It clicked in my head why fluminator is scum. With the presence of a miller the chances of there being a godfather go up. So his entrance is not as null as it would be in a vacuum.

It means not wet.

hey guys have a readslist
The Cool Cucumbers: strong town lean: Hasn't done anything scummy, and cerberus reaction was super town
Drunken Pirates: town lean: Nothing scummy, thus town
Drixx: town lean: nothing scummy
Rylai and Lina: slight town lean: less towny due to a lack of scumhunting
sharky5x: null
wickedestjr: null
ABR: null: really just being kinda useless :/
Klingoncelt: null:
DiamondSentinel:slight lean scum: there's some weird dissonance. In 18 doesn't seem confident in his reads, then 243 jumps to confidence in his reads, and then in 313 he loses his confidence.
Skybird: scum lean: 275 and 289 read as rolefishing to me
I'm not a great townhunter.
I spent like 3 hours isoing all of these people, I'll get the rest tomorrow
(In case you're wondering I'm useless at getting reads without isoing so I just went ahead and made a readslist)

Thoughts on zzzx, maxwell, yos, fluminator and dgb?

[Sensei]

Basically, just don't worry much about wild longshots like "but what if he's a mafia godfather" at this point on day 1. You shouldn't seriously be entiertaining longshot ideas like that until you have a lot more evidence to work with, and they certanly shouldn't be affecting your vote.

Sure.

All I was clarifying was that when I earlier expressed flums not-miller claim as null - I wasn't really considering any outside factors.

I'm not a fan of his play so far, which is the largest contributing factor.

[Sensei]

Flum is still pretty scum.
Even discounting the fact that scum are probably fucking stacked. (spifflops role was pretty bonkers powerful and that's just the first flip we've seen) Given there's a miller - I apologize but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they've got a godfather and Flums entrance screams that.

His posts are dry. Meaning there's not really any emotion there. Even the quote walls where he's responding to pressure it's just like empty jabs at everyone scumreading him or even tossing a glance in his direction.

Even his read on me was pretty fake. "Liked his questions early but blah blah could be scum." That's not a real thought process of somebody reading my posts frankly - I've only asked like a couple questions at that point and they weren't alignment indicative.

[Sensei]

It's not guaranteed there's a miller, though. Depends on your Rylai and Luna read. What is it?

Is it bad that I sorta just haven't paid attention to that slot because it's a thing that'll work itself out eventually?
I can think of a few reasons to give them the benefit of the doubt for a day or two.
I haven't found any of their posts particularly OMGSCUMKILLWITHFIRE if that helps.

/shrug

[Sensei]

ABR is sure trying hard to derail a wagon on someone he's got no read on.

Not sure I buy the capsrage either.

[Sensei]

Think I'd rather have the MC be someone who's at least been consistently towning and moving the game along. Wicked made like 2 decent posts and bounced. Don't even have a real read there.

[Sensei]

I didn't say anything about trying hard. Towning was the key word there.

[Sensei]

@Max - What did you think of Yimmy's entrance?

[Sensei]

ABR is sure trying hard to derail a wagon on someone he's got no read on.

Not sure I buy the capsrage either.

fos:sensei

[Sensei]

On the real though it would be cool to know why he asked angel to vote anywhere but flum when like on the previous page he said and I quote "flum hasn't posted anything to make me lean one way or the other."

Smells off. Like WKing.

[Sensei]

They link to a different topic. That's more than likely a scumslip.

[Sensei]

Could be their hydra private topic.

Oh yea good point.

[Sensei]

Sensei what do you think of klingon's catch up post placing everyone that voted her in her scum pile, with Rylai, and inexplicable townreads?

It

is

pretty shit all around.

[Sensei]

Tell ya what ABR convince me on flum town and I'll join ya on kling. For now I kinda like the dueling wagons. It's ideal.

[Sensei]

So you want me to vote you for mc after your very first mention of me this game was a vehement no for Sensei going on any adventures?

What kind of punk do you take me for.

[Sensei]

You don't seem like the adventuring type. You seem like the sit on an island to read playboy type.

I laughed.

[Sensei]

Like ... why are you guys debating whether that's a slip or not?

Because we aren't as smart as you and don't know how to differentiate between whether the post lead back to a scum topic or a hydra topic?
And after reading your post I still don't. lol

[Sensei]

Hey mollie, what do you think of sensei townslipping like I said earlier

I wanted to adventure with him until he thought we had scumslipped when we really haven't. ffs I gave titus the go ahead on that post that was sitting in our hydra pt cos i told titus to sit on her fingers for a bit and that is what she did in her spare time. it was a good post I think.

I feel like sensai is coming across as placating to me to every1 in all of his posts (not making waves). I am not really seeing it as a townslip the way you are. sorry.

Hard to make waves in a tub of pudding. Ya know?

[Sensei]

Sensei: you still don't know if it lead back to a scum topic or a hydra topic. All Drixx knows is how that particular error happened, but that post could have come from any topic other than this one.

-Cerb

When your tl;dr is 'they have some explaining to do' you can see my confusion.

It's w/e.

[Sensei]

so how do you feel about mine sensei?

About your what?

[Sensei]

Luminous is an adventure place pretty sure.

[Sensei]

lool

[Sensei]

Who is BIT?

[Sensei]

K. So I'm thinking secret voter. Probs a scummy thing.

And the fact they decided to park and not join either top wagon to try and throw doubt on it is a thing.

Scum might be comfortable right now.

[Sensei]

Also less confident about CC then i was a few pages ago. His attempt to manipulate Drixx into not giving me rings, even though CC never actually has said anything about my alignment at all, seems scummy.

Yea. And I also find it weird how cerb somehow can't give reads just cuz his hydra partner isn't around.

To the multiple people townreading cucumbers. Why?

[Sensei]

What did you think of hiplops metacase thingy on them earlier?

Looking back at it now (their wall in response to mollie) it looked like going above and beyond the call of duty pretty hard.

[Sensei]

Oh spifflop. Well that was early game, I don't think it's so relevant anymore.

...What do you mean it's not relevant anymore?

It's a read conftown looked like they felt pretty strongly about that's starting to resonate with me. It's pretty relevant.

[Sensei]

To me their motives are obviously pro-town, even if their play isn't the best.

Also, if you want a good town play compared to scum play by me, compare Antihero v. Fakegod or Fire and Ice (I don't remember number, but most recent playing, more aggressive play by me than AvF) to the recently completed Metal Gear Solid (I'd suggest days 3 through 4, as 1 and 2 I was still noobish and 5 and onward was super dead.

Is the first line talking about cucumbers? If so please elaborate.

And do you always just randomly provide meta?

[Sensei]

If RaL claims the names of the confirmed town in the thread, those possessing the names would be forced to claim, even if otherwise disadvantageous to do so. The reason being is that we have no way of knowing if scum have a janitor. If the slots didn't claim and scum shot and janitored those slots, the fake claim would allow them to coast to victory. We should not depend on getting lucky in scum shooting a mason lover and the other mason lover flipping like in Stevens Universe.

There seem to be three possibilities;
A. Nothing is revealed today. The risk: RL are killed/janitor'd tonight - we lose the information.

B. Flavor names are revealed, but the players don't claim until a day or two from now. The risk: confirmed townies are killed/janitor'd before claiming and scum decide to fake claim.

C. The 'confirmed townies' are revealed today. The risk: confirmed townies are made known to the scum, they could be killed.


I could be overlooking something, but option B seems best. Scum wouldn't know who the confirmed townies are but they do now know that RL has the information that confirms them (if RL's town), so the risk for B seems smaller than the risk for A (it's easier to kill a role that's publicly claimed than it is to kill two hidden roles). Also: the risk for B is only a problem if scum have a janitor ability that they use during one of the first few nights - and we will see/know if they use it - if they don't, then we can trust the people that claim in thread. For what it's worth, I think option A is worse than option C as well: I'd rather have two vulnerable confirmed townies than potentially lose the information that confirms them.

Thoughts?

Next: providing my reads, as requested

I thought that we were trying to get them into an all town adventure so that scum would be cut off from the info altogether.

[Sensei]

Suppose that's just wishful thinking but we can definitely try!

[Sensei]

What's PC?

[Sensei]

If I was looking for a party...

drixx/yos/rylai/zzzx/diamond

would be a solid one

[Sensei]

Well on the bright side titus has decided to stop being a robot.

[Sensei]

Why's lowkey town?

[Sensei]

this is a shitty as fuck party. Why bring yos when you don't need to?

I think he's town. More than lowkey.
I'd probably drop diamond after his reaction to my list frankly.
I want rylai in there to at least try and keep whatever info they have away from scum because it's kinda valuable if they're town.

[Sensei]

Cooldog what's your read on cucumbers?

[Sensei]

Say people should move their votes from ABR as mc and put someone else as second place, I mean if ABR was to be nked drixx with 2 votes would become mc again which is something we might not want.

How do you know that's how it works?
Why would drixx be a bad mc? Besides being a stick in the mud of course.

[Sensei]

I mean, you are obviously not a popular lynch target right now. Your buddy arc is on the line right now. Flum ain't getting the lynch today, hate to break that one to you.

Wanna make it popular?

VOTE: diamondsentinal

[Sensei]

Because your reaction to being placed in a townlist was to buddy me.

And your latest posts suck.

[Sensei]

Also you get one vote and immediately OMGUS and go all vague with the 'bad things will happen' shtick.

Just bad all around.

[Sensei]

I mean lord fucking knows what role Diamondsentinal actually has so it's hard to speculate, max. But I think the softing is a bit premature given that he doesn't have all that much pressure on him.

[Sensei]

Does anyone object to me claiming partially? I don't want to let the cat out of the bag here.

If you think claiming something right now is prudent then do it.

Nobody else can read your role PM dude.

[Sensei]

I just wanted to know if there's (recent) history of scum threatening town out of a lynch. And, now that you've said that, and I think about people hinting at their roles all through day 1.. I mean, I kind of understand it. All of the roles in this game are very cool and we're all very excited about them. It's definitely anti-town imo, but I think misguided town do this too?

Misguided town do what? Get voted once and threaten some orwellian catastrophe if they get voted...9 or 10 more times with about a week until any kind of deadline rush?

Sure...I guess.

When I get wagoned and I'm town, it's rarely town driving it. So I'd be more apt to keep an ace up my sleeve and surprise scum. But I guess this supposes like a super-saint kinda thing going on and not just his entire wagon gets incinerated to dust or something. (that would be the kind of super anti-town role to claim probably sooner rather than later... but the only slot I can play is my own)

[Sensei]

If I'm not MC, I will die, and town will lose one of their most powerful assets. As simple as that.

So if we don't MC you and you're alive tomorrow is it speed lynch time?

[Sensei]

@mod

How does the MC vote work? Does it need to be hammered or is it simple majority?

Plurality at lynch.
If there is a tie, the previous MC remains MC.
If there is no living previous MC and no MC has been voted at day-end, then there will be no MC during the following day.

[Sensei]

So as it stands you're our MC.

[Sensei]

Who do think would be a good fall back?

pedit @abr

[Sensei]

Yeah. There is no way Albert's play here makes sense as a scum gambit, so he pretty much has to be town and telling the truth as he sees it.

Not confident this'll work out as smoothly as he seems to think, but let's make him MC and see what happens.

This.

You scumbutts can quit throwing shade now.

[Sensei]

Meh. The hammer thing is mostly null because it's a thing that either alignment would want to have happen (power boost) and it's next to impossible to achieve unsketchily without letting the game know ahead of time.

[Sensei]

Also since apparently flum v skybird is a thing. Think I'm liking flum more. (especially recently)

[Sensei]

You just said you agreed with what most of cooldog has been saying and he has been one of my most vocal defenders. Wha?

This line in particular just feels genuine. Like just typed out straight off the cuff. (and it's a good point too)

[Sensei]

We also haven't had a votecount in a while but if there was one on this page what you all would see is a wagon on flum that I'm thinking I'm not gonna support anymore. A wagon on a slot that's being replaced, which is wasted pressure. A shit ton of 1 or 2 vote vanities, some with potential some not. And then like 6 mofos not voting.

Sensei is not happy.

[Sensei]

What is the case on arcangel? I can't even remember a single post she's made.

[Sensei]

Maaaaaybe if it weren't halfway into day 1.

[Sensei]

Scum don't NK millers.

[Sensei]

Also keep reading you'll see why it's increasingly unlikely.

[Sensei]

Klingon your posts are making my eyes bleed.

[Sensei]

But Still between sky-Flumm one is likely scum (two powers which activating by hammering others) ITS so not town ... and I think sky's power is more townish - syphoning is so damn anti town.

No.

[Sensei]

I like the party abr.

Rylai your setup spec is bad at best scummy at worst please.

Take a look at who the mod is.

[Sensei]

I just don't think ABR promises the land of milk and honey day 1 as scum because he knows what will happen if it's not delivered. Simple as that really.

[Sensei]

Also Max are you scum?

[Sensei]

Skybird, I don't feel like digging up the post but the one that you called rolefishing is literally just me telling you how both your and Flum's roles are the same at a basic level (like the Mystic race) and that determining alignment from that makes no sense.

Unless both claim to be a

specific main character

and the game seems to only have one

fixed

~Rylai

Right but I hiiiiiiighly doubt that's gonna happen anyway. Just bad game design to give character claims to scum that will be countered.

[Sensei]

I'm still not following.

[Sensei]

Also Hi Fresh Fig.

Ooh, are you one of the spectators from PSV. (*Embarrased* for my play)

Also, seems like we are on a hot trail on a scum. So Sky and Flum are claiming the same character?

Also this is a bad post.

[Sensei]

Highly doubt there's a cult leader.

Rylai would cult make any flavor sense at all?

[Sensei]

Reading that it's even more likely drixx is town.

[Sensei]

@Yosarian I have one slight problem with Max, which I know is a problem I have as town, but others think is scummy. He's far to flippant with his reads. He's gone from scum-reading someone to a hard town-read in such short time. It honestly just looks like appeasement if they seem even the slightest bit threatening.

Which read/s are you referring to?

[Sensei]

You normally associate appeasement with townreading, though.
The most telling example would be townreading an aggressor with appeasy language and stuff.
I haven't seen max do this.

[Sensei]

Until just now kinda. lol

[Sensei]

DP is far more town than both of them put together imo.

[Sensei]

You normally associate appeasement with townreading, though.
The most telling example would be townreading an aggressor with appeasy language and stuff.
I haven't seen max do this.

I mean appeasement in the way Britain appeased Germany in the early 20th century. As in not a good way.

How is the way I described also not in a good way?
Also what?

[Sensei]

Alright Flum, you get what you want. Titus is off the party.

One slot open. Considering Cool Cucumbers or Lowkey.

What about me? I'm solid town apparently.

You want it too much.

[Sensei]

^that

[Sensei]

Sensei: Who cares about wanting it too much? Most important is that the team is comprised of town. If Diamond is SOLID TOWN as ABR claims, then there shouldn't be a problem. It's only the MC where towniness plus capabilities as leader are equally important.

I was half joking.

[Sensei]

@diamond

You can chat just fine in the thread.

There are people in this game who's insight would be a lot more valuable than yours with a chance to discuss in a scum free environment and some who also would benefit from it role wise.

Your motivations are questionable in this regard.

[Sensei]

@Titus

When did I react to a doublevote?

[Sensei]

So skybird is essentially voting you because you said something weird that looked like claiming third party and because she gets cool things by lynching you?
Oh yea that sounds town.

[Sensei]

Why are you voting skybird again though itlepip?

[Sensei]

Thought the same thing^

VOTE: skybird

[Sensei]

I don't really see itlepip flipping scum right now.

[Sensei]

^scumpost

[Sensei]

We have plenty of time what are you even talking about.

[Sensei]

This wagon kinda feels weird now.

Ugh.

[Sensei]

Okay you're voting skybird for lack of paranoia right.

Well gale seems to seems to have very little as well. Also that catchup last page was just a giant fencesit.

[Sensei]

Eh.

Worrying about constituency has gotten me in trouble before so I'll just see if things keep happening for now.

Still don't like either slot, though.

[Sensei]

If we do think DS is likely scum, we should probably ask the vig to take care of it instead of lynching him, just to be safe.

What do

you

think?

[Sensei]

If we do think DS is likely scum, we should probably ask the vig to take care of it instead of lynching him, just to be safe.

What do

you

think?

I get a good feeling from Sensei about this post.

lolwhat.
Why?

[Sensei]

Hey wqeurts when you're done typing out textwalls on your townreads that have no chance of being lynched today I'd love to hear all about that scumread you had on me.

[Sensei]

30 pages over the weekend huh.

[Sensei]

Like I've said klingons play hasn't been very impressive here.
But the speed which her wagon formed makes me hesitate.
And I've a soft spot for those who townread me. haha

[Sensei]

Hey Drunken Pirates if you could lynch 2 ppl today would you? And who would they be?

[Sensei]

Who is cukes?

[Sensei]

Does the fact that it's day 1 and there's a 'giant case wall against me' set off any alarms for anybody?
I'll respond to it if that's what the people want. Let me get my coffee first.

[Sensei]

You know Sensei, after reviewing your ISO you really are as bad as my notes made out.

Good to know you're taking notes.

His opening play is weakly town; Sensei shows that he is attempting to figure people out early on in posts like 223. What first caught my eye and looked kind of opportunistic is this:
In post 246 he questions why diamondsentinel doesn't like the wagon on flum. Then he procedes to vote said wagon (which was growing steadily at the time) using the reasoning "ah, now I see it".

Asking diamond sentinal what he doesn't like about the wagon was attempt to get a better read on him. It's a question. Your reaching by assuming my question conveyed any of my actual thoughts on flum at the time. Simply a question. There's no inconsistency.

You'd do well to try and not be completely 'transparent' all the time mate. The answer I got from DS was probably a better one than if I'd flat out punched him in the face and said "you're distancing yourself from the flum wagon while simultaneously pushing it scumbag, WHY YOU DO DIS???"

Looking at the amount of posts he has on site and his join-date it drew the conclusion he was a newbie and newbies have the tendency to silly things like this as scum. It was when I further looked into his post and saw he never joined a newbie that I concluded he is actually more likely to be an alt of someone.

No shit sherlock.

Anyway, his reasons are god awful. Read post 501, where he votes Flum because the "chance of godfathers are higher with the presence of a miller". Everyone knows this is crumpets reasoning thus I call this vote opportunistic. When people then start pressuring him for this his primary reason to join the wagon becomes "I dislike his playstyle" in post 521. This sudden change of explanation when pressured isn't good and the reasoning remains bad. It continues into 534, the reasoning remains bad but at least he adds a decentish part. The whole making up more reasons as I go along when pressured for them doesn't scream town to me though.

I wasn't the first/only person to give said reasoning for voting flum. Why am I the soul benfactor of your qualms with this?
I said his play was shit. A sentiment shared by conftown spifflop. Not "I don't like his playstyle" playstyle is a nulltell.
Making up reasons as I go along or elaborating when my points aren't being completely understood.
Guess it just depends on how you wanna frame it.

Anyway, if we assume that he really believes his twisted reasons and is being honest the following few posts could be seen as town. Post 615 is an example of him observing peoples play and finding inconsistencies which is something town should do.

Good thing you've got all these tangential shoehorned instances of you think that I'm town in here. Otherwise you might've been called for confbiasing.

Butttttt, then he makes post 1194 where he says pirates scum slipped, yet where is his vote?! Honestly it could be him waiting to see how others react to it before making a jump, it also shows he isn't convinced of the slip itself making his post false.

It was a shitty kneejerk. Don't feel great about it but town do that as well. (probably more than scum)

I've seen the same thing happen before and they turned out to be scum. The fact that hydras get a private topic slipped my mind for a moment. My not voting was more a remnant of how much I was already townreading DPs. And for a brief moment my entire overview of the game flipped completely upside down. To put myself back in the moment DP scum meant Max and ABR were likely town(people who I'd been iffy on up until that point), Rylai looked a lot worse by interactions, Dgb had some weird things that made her a decent buddy candidate. It was a lot to take in and also abr kindly level headed the situation by reminding me it was also possibly a hydra topic fairly quickly, so a vote wasn't ever necessary.

Post 1024 is also pretty bad. Here he tells ABR to "convince me flum is town and I'll join you on Klingon"...

There's a pretty good reason for this. You'll find out in good time. Competing wagons are a good thing to have without skewing VCA if you want a preview.

I also find it odd how he wants to bring diamond in a party with him in post 1524 which seems to indicate he is town reading him but, wait!, he then votes them opportunistically out of the blue without any reasons what so ever in post 1699. Well, besides some "your latest posts suck" and an unbacked claim about buddying.

Reads change. For me they can be especially rapid. "I like the way you think." Is probably among adults the highest form of flattery - and also pretty buddyish.

Shall I go on?

No thanks. Fuck long posts and you play mafia like an old man.

[Sensei]

Anyway, about Sensei - he's a Town read for me. I will not vote for him today. He might not be the strongest player, but he's not doing anything scummy.

so can you give a brief opinion about what me and cool cucumber found scummy about him?

~Rylai

Now you think I'm scummy too? jfc
That's weird because I didn't really post anything over the weekend and you were townreading me so what changed?

[Sensei]

But the speed which her wagon formed makes me hesitate.

Speed what speed

This wagon has been simmering and bubbling for a hundred pages

5 votes or so in a couple pages is pretty fast last time I checked.

[Sensei]

I really dislike AA9's iso

*questioning glance*

I concur. Didn't even notice this before.
Think Pip is null at best now.

[Sensei]

Rylai you need a new sarcasm detector and your hydra partner already called you on that.

[Sensei]

The fact that after I placed him in the party block he decided to quote it and say "I like the way you think."
Felt really yucky to me.

[Sensei]

Mollie you can answer my question now please? Might also consult titus as well.
Also yosarian and abr same question.

[Sensei]

2148 wasn't sarcasm at all ...

Even if you're claiming to be a mind reader what about the thoughts that fell previous to the 'oh yea that sounds town' led you to believe that there's no way that it could have been sarcasm?
And even then why is it vote worthy?

[Sensei]

Sensei respond to the case with the two posts after it I most recently posted, there's a reason people didn't see what I was saying in that one; my thoughts and explainations were unclear.

I skimmed it and it looks like pretty much the same thing dolled up more.

[Sensei]

Most of you complaints of my slot fall under the "why isn't this player being robotically consistent in all of their reads and being completely transparent in every last one of their posts.
The answer is because I'm not scum. lol

[Sensei]

What is it with you guys and thinking that asking questions = attacking? How does that make any sense at all.

[Sensei]

And why does my attacking of itlepip - if that's what you genuinely think was happening. Automatically make you think that I had a townread on skybird?

[Sensei]

what about the thoughts that fell previous to the 'oh yea that sounds town' led you to believe that there's no way that it could have been sarcasm?

@rylai

[Sensei]

Responding to second case now because this back forth with rylai is making me lose braincells and I've nothing better to do. lol

[Sensei]

Mollie you can answer my question now please? Might also consult titus as well.
Also yosarian and abr same question.

flum and kewldog as of right now.

what is your take on them?

No the

other

question.
Should we lynch 2 people today.
Just yes or no.

[Sensei]

2148 wasn't sarcasm at all ...

Even if you're claiming to be a mind reader what about the thoughts that fell previous to the 'oh yea that sounds town' led you to believe that there's no way that it could have been sarcasm?
And even then why is it vote worthy?

Because what you described was something town do, that wasn't sarcasm.
If it is your post doesn't add up.

How is fumbling over words and wanting to lynch something for gain without weighing at all about their alignment something town do?

[Sensei]

Also this case isn't half bad so far I suppose.
I think the biggest problem is that I've not been really giving a shit about how I'm read this game. And there's no real reason why you'd pick up on that or care frankly.

I'll still respond, though no worries.

[Sensei]

(what I'm doing right now while responding hehe)

[Sensei]

But I was under the impression that itlepips didn't actually claim third party and it was only a semantics thing.

[Sensei]

eta2: if you have a machine gun I may hate you forever cos i am very jelly <3

lol is that what it's called?

[Sensei]

Well I guess I do give some of a shit. You kinda have to care about how you're read at some level. I guess not as much as I normally would is probably a better way to put it.
I don't know why aggressiveness = scum, though.

[Sensei]

Your point is still shit because I have been aggressive at other times this game and aggression is a playstyle thing anyway.

[Sensei]

Wgeurts' attempt at fram... uh, explaining why Sensei is scum:

OH SEE THAT GUYS HE EVEN ADMITS HE'S TRYNA FRAME ME! LYNCH THIS SCUM!
Though before we get into this for real I'm actually happy you decided to push this harder. Makes me feel like at least a little bit better about your slot and you might sincirely want me lynched or something.

But like...Dude. A case wall? On a player who is obviously not really trying that hard? Like, cerb said he hates day 1. I can respect that. But a lot of how I play day 1 is to just be unpredicable and do SOMETHING to try and form reads. And if those somethings fall under inconsistent and/or not robot-like then that's the point. Ight?

Okay so he starts voting Flum here, now considering that people were mass-piling votes onto him saying "I get it now" and voting is pretty darn opportunistic... or am I mistaken? Also, since when is "Dryness" a scum tell? He fails to explain his vote or explain how any of flum's actions are more likely to come from scum.

Were they though? Was there a mass piling of votes on fluminator? I could have sworn the peak of his wagon was like 4 MAYBE 5 votes or something. So like 11 lynch that seems pretty stallish.

Dry is a term I use to describe posting that doesn't have a wetness to it. Basically posting for the sake of posting something normally follows this trend a lot. Scum do it because scums thoughts aren't real. I

guess

you could say it's a mix of gut and past experience.

So then Maxwell questions him on this and he gives this piece of crumpets. Please, everyone read this and if you don't see how this reasoning is absolute crumpets tell me ASAP as we need to have a serious talk in that case. His reasoning sucks, so joining this wagon with crumpets explanations just makes it a whole lot more opportunistic.

I don't know what crumpets are. Shit? Do you mean shit?
I've gone into more detail about this read anyway and later on you seemed to be fine with it so there's that.
Also when you throw around buzzwords like opportunistic you should at least try and explain what my scumportunity for it would be.
I don't believe sheeping the top wagon at the time with vague reasoning is something that wouldn't garner any attention or make it more likely to go through to a lynch. Do you? Because the only opportunity for that would be to push a mislynch assuming flumtown of course.

You're basically taking a preflip associative and consulting the mafiascum textbook from 2008 and using it to call me scum here.

So thank god people see how it sucks and point that out, how does Sensei respond? By ditching it and saying that the largest factor is "he is not a fan of his play". CONTRADICTION! He went from saying "It clicked that flum is scum because the existence of a miller makes godfather more likely" (this explanation makes me laugh every time that's how bad it is) to saying the "largest facor is I don't like his play". Yet he lacks an explanation of what exactly he "isn't a fan of". Changing your narrative to justify a vote is scummy and mixed with the opportunism it's down right awful.

Except that the post you quoted was the first time I expressed outwardly the weight of each the degree of my suspicioun on fluminator was?
This is reaching because you need to assume that the reasoning for my initial vote was predominantly because of the not-miller claim.
It wasn't.

People don't like his explanation... so what does Sensei do? CHANGE HIS EXPLANATION AGAIN! Suddenly some more random points have appeared he completely forgot to mention earlier to try and appease those that are pressuring him on them. They aren't even good reasons for a scum read. He makes a few statements but doesn't explain how mentioned things are likelier to come from scum. Do people not see what I'm seeing?

It's people that play like you do that keep this game stagnant and boring.
What is scummy about witholding reasoning and bringing it forward later?
If I'm not being completely understood and I feel like the person I'm voting is losing traction for something that I did then I will elaborate further.
This is me elaborating on what I found dry about flums posts. Which is what I talked about earlier. And I even said if we discount the godfather spec I still think flum is scummy.

Slow cooking your pushes can be effective if your pushes lose steam.

Here he says that DP "more than likely" scum slipped, and what do you do when you think someone has done that? Well according to Sensei that is definitely do not vote that player. This doesn't add up, and indicates he knows what he said isn't entirely as he makes it out to be. Why would town lie though? I don't know.
Why would scum do this? To see if others pile on before going after something that may fail.
It's a simple matter of looking for what one may be thinking as either alignment and which makes more sense, in this case Sensei is making a lot of sense as scum.

Addressed this already.
Also forgot to mention I don't hydra a lot.

Okay so Klingoncelt is pretty shit all around, and seeing how he hasn't mentioned flum in forever (in fact as I'll get to later he magically becomes a town read for no reason) you would expect to see Sensei following up on this pushing Klingon. Or saying why its pretty shit around. Instead we get this:

No I thought her readslist was pretty shit all around. That's just me coming around to the idea of voting her.

What.
This is just a scum post all round. Basically he is asking ABR to give him a reason to leave his current vote without looking too dodgy and he gets a chance to vote a popular target. Win win right?

There's a reason I wanted dueling wagons, mate.

Do we so Sensei questioning people to figure out their motives or perspectives?

Also the irony here is absolutely perfect. What questions have you levied at me? I can't think of any off hand.

Another example of him suddenly picking on a player who is being suspect (in this case us) but never explaining why he is also suspicious and never following up on his suspicions. Does he ever continue to interact with me or kling? No.

I've interacted with both you and kling. I asked you to provide the reason you thought I was scum. And I told kling to stop posting drivel.
I'll concede that involvement in the game now is a lot higher than it was, I guess. So, thanks for that.

Does he make it seem like his positioning himself to join a potential wagon on us if one arises? Possibly.

Why's that scummy? Vanity wagons are the devil.

He is not scum hunting. He is playing opportunistically and making the most of what we give him.

What?

But bamn, suddenly he votes him here out of the blue. Me, flum and Klingon or completely forgotten.

Yes because a sudden read change like that would be very optimal to do as scum right.
You, flum and klingon are not the center of this games universe and I don't understand why if my posts don't contain a complete readslist every hour on the hour that makes me scum.

He doesn't explain how the first comes from scum, as many others have done this (heck ABR is basically selling himself to win MC votes). Also we get another "your play sucks" like comment. These statements are so easy for scum to throw around as it makes them seem justified, while not having to make any explanation where someone could catch you out. He's not given any half-decent explanation for any of his suspicions. In fact half of his suspicions are only there while others suspect them and then they disappear.

You're taking like every opportunity to undermine my pushes and it's not cool.
I still feel that diamond being placed in a town adventure list - saying I like the way you think and then even asking for the general populaces thoughts on it in errant is scummy. I feel like town should focus on getting town in the party. But should also understand that if the only benefit there is to it is to 'chat' for themselves they would be less pushy about it. I go more into this in another post that you didn't decide to give thoughts on for some reason.

What.
Suddenly flum is town?
But I thought he was scum reading him.
I wonder what changed...

My reads changing makes me scum. We get it.

I think leaving a complete and unfailingly concrete un-contradicted trail of your thoughts on every slot you've mentioned at all in the game updated in every other post can be scummy. I think we just play the game differently.

He's gone from scum reading flum to town reading him because of this one line. Somebody please tell me you think this is genuine. You don't just flip reads for something like this, its ridiculous. You know what it does do though?
Give him an opportunity to vote skybird who was becoming a more likely wagon than flum if the opportunity arises.

How the hell do you know my read changed based on one line?
I wanted my current thoughts on record because they happened to change. And maybe the current concensus was more towards skybird than flum at that junction.
Couldn't be because flum started towning right? MUST have been Sensei being an opportunistic scum.
Like I take it back what is this garbage..

Your points seem to taper off towards the bottom to just calling the rest of my posts useless. We clearly don't scumhunt the same way. Just because you don't understand what my motivation behind asking someone if they're scum directly after disagree with a push they just made isn't clear. Doesn't mean that your way of playing the game is any more effective than mine.

Confirmation bias to a T. Friends.

[Sensei]

I've been deliberating on this for a while but I think removing two question marks from the game today at this junction would only be beneficial. Considering that there's enough of them. (I held off because I didn't think the chances of lynching two scum are all that great save for a lot of bussing but the chances of lynching at least one and maybe a third party are pretty high considering the events of today)

What I would like everyone to do is to treat L2 like it's hammer essentially. And to go about the day as though we're lynching two people.

[Sensei]

Oh and my ideal party is now.
abr
dp
yosarian
rylai
drixx

For the record.

[Sensei]

You quoted and spun scum motive to every post I've made this game.
You're too sure of yourself.
We haven't even had any flips yet.

[Sensei]

I'd like everyone's thoughts on my claim please. Don't let it get lost in the noise.

[Sensei]

We're double lynching today.

[Sensei]

No we lynch them at the same time.
I can vote every person in the game twice simultaneously.
I think there's enough question marks that this would be a good idea.
You agree?

[Sensei]

Thing is though we've got just enough numbers to pull this off Today and less than a week till deadline. If anyone can rally votes for two lynches it's you and drunken pirates, though. So I've got faith.

Also we get to analyze two flips with wagons tomorrow. Plus it's not like we've a lack of scummy slots. So more town controlled kills seems cool.

[Sensei]

WTH ?!

I call BS. You are seriosuly claiming to have an already fully upgraded gun style ?

You know ? The thing town is supposed to adventure in order achieve ? NOT EVEN RED who si the mainest of the main characters(spifflop) Had the sword techinique fully upgraded

Is this to me?
I don't get anything by adventuring and don't use guns so I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

[Sensei]

Yos what do you think?

[Sensei]

What are you even talking about?

[Sensei]

I have a regular technique as well that's totally different.

[Sensei]

Anyway, if this is a one-shot ability,we probably don't want to use it today, unless we really need Sensei to confirm his role today.

If we do decide to do it today, I guess I could be up for lynching both Klingon and Max, or Klingon and ZXXX, or something, but we should probably just wait. It's a more powerful ability later in the game anyway.

It's unlimited.
Meaning we can lynch two people every single day phase.
We have enough to go on to at least remove two questionable names without needing to rely on a vig or the like.
Let's use it to get rid of some lurkers. Is what I say.

[Sensei]

I didn't even realize you could 'upgrade.'

[Sensei]

Just because I don't get anything from adventuring doesn't mean that abr knew that and it still made me sad when he made sure to include me in the names of people he for sure wasn't bringing.

[Sensei]

Flavor isn't gonna break the game anyway sweetcheeks. I get that you're playing the game and all excited and stuff but I don't really care to divulge any more info to scum than I already have.

[Sensei]

zzzx, why are you scumreading me mate?

[Sensei]

Skybird is still a good vote btw.

[Sensei]

@Sensei

Break ? No. Assist ? Yes. I view flavour as a tool to help find scum. Like I truly believe that this is the point of it's existance or else we could just be playing a normal new York game.

For the record it can help scum as well because it can act as an indirect role claim if you know what you are looking at and you can manage to optimise your kills around that.

I personally find theme game with no character/role/alignment corellation pointless.

So having said that. Why do you want me to flavorclaim right now?

[Sensei]

ffs

I'm Annie.

And I fucking fail to see how that info helps you see that I'm town but there you go. I let you dipshits bully me into claiming more than I wanted.
I'm going to the store to take a break from this shit. bbl

[Sensei]

Titus can you please explain to the town that double-lynching is optimal.

[Sensei]

Why not?

[Sensei]

@DP

[Sensei]

One of Lowkey/DGB is probs scum btw.
Leaning towards lowkey.

[Sensei]

If it's just a hunch then I don't see the harm in giving your thoughts.
I think they're probably both scum secret voters. Or at least one is.
That do more harm then just a vote as well.

pedit: @diamond

[Sensei]

Why not?

Skybird's claim and responses look rather town to me. She's been directly engaging the thread and scumhunting. Her what the fuck with ABR early on felt really genuine to me. Look, if Skybird is scum, trust people to see it. gogurts backed off when evidence got hinky with his position on you.

Let's get unified. Flum or CoolDog?

I will discuss your thoughts with Mollie. I need to do a readwall but gotta vamoose soon for work.

Skybird is gonna be tough to read for me and her claim didn't really give me warm fuzzies or make me think scum either. I just don't like that she seems to pop in every now and then to deflect stuff thrown at her and today she popped in just to echo the sentiment that zzzx should link to the posts that he's responding to. Posts like that give me the impression that she's scum struggling with relevant things to say in thread.

I also haven't really had a problem with cooldogs posting. His activity could be better I suppose. Maybe I'll do an iso there or something and get back to you and see what all the fuss is about.

Flum to this day I still go back n forth on. lol
He also did kinda drop off after a key amount of pressure was off of him too. Would probably vote there if only given the option of the two.

[Sensei]

Well I guess I'd be lying if I said the pressure on me had nothing at all to do with it.
But I think I needed to say something eventually if I'm to try and get the most pro-town mileage out of my role.
And there's a fuckton of slots that need to die imo. Might as well start early.

[Sensei]

Not a bad idea actually.

[Sensei]

We need literally everyone in the game to work together to pull that off.

We can do it.
Go teamwork!

[Sensei]

Yea I have but you know me it's changed already.

[Sensei]

With this newfound responsibility, think I'm about due for a reread.
Wish me luck.

[Sensei]

Kewldog, please.

[Sensei]

Man with the rate this game is going we should totally go for the biggest day in large record of 4200 posts.

~Lina

You jinxed it mate.

[Sensei]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowkey

[Sensei]

Varsoon

- which deadline is correct? The VC or the OP?

[Sensei]

lmao

[Sensei]

I'm still reading that vote will most likely not stay. Unless I could get a little help? Huh? Anybody?

[Sensei]

Ight.

Double Slash: Cooldog

[Sensei]

also plz vote yourself for MC

As if I would stoop to such lows!

[Sensei]

Sensei, if you're voted MC, can you confirm that you will not bring Drixx with you on the party? We lose a spot when you die, as I explained. Who are the party members you want to go? (without you)

I'm not sure yet man. But yah I won't bring drixx.

[Sensei]

Actually now that I'm thinking about it what difference would a 4 person adventure make to a 5 person one if we're pretty sure drixx is town anyway?
I'm just thinking create the least amount of space for scum to squirm in as possible.

[Sensei]

I can put more town utility to the role of MC. Weird to ask, but I need your consideration and support.

I'm not dropping out of the race. lol

Difference being is that I know I'm town. I don't know you're town.
Let the people decide bro.

[Sensei]

I'm actually more nulltown on you now after looking over some stuff.

[Sensei]

Skybird who's scum?

[Sensei]

I don't see why this matters to you, you will die tonight.

I think the MC mechanic feels more elegant if scum have a strong man that is delayed or something.
At any rate you seem pretty sure about exactly what scum are thinking.
Just chill.

[Sensei]

Not Voting (5):

Drixx, ErrantParabola, Rylai and Lina, The Cool Cucumbers, Lowkey

UNFUCKING ACCEPTABLE

[Sensei]

We aren't lynching ABR today zulfy please put your vote somewhere else.

[Sensei]

Still don't really want to lynch klingon either so that wagon should disappear asap. Kthnx.

[Sensei]

Eh.

It's hard for me to believe this setup doesn't have a doctor.

[Sensei]

I've never had a mod tell me specifically "there's no doc" before. I guess it's something the scum team could competently infer anyway. Especially given how much shit we've outed already.
ABR has sorta set himself up to either die or become increasingly obvious if he's full of shit as the game goes on, though.

[Sensei]

The insinuation here is that you would expect a doctor to CC ABR's claim, and since no one did, it must be true. Is that what you're saying Sensei?

-Cerb

Kinda. Titus has a point that there may be other protective roles (who should use their own best judgment to CC or not if we have them). I just think doctor is the most common and would be super risky to fakeclaim.

[Sensei]

Who are these scummy lurker sheeps you speak of?

[Sensei]

It's really not. If done with a modicum of scum play, it can allow for coasting. I bought myself time in Steven Universe (large theme) because I was a doctor inventor. There was no other doctor, just a mass commuter and jailkeeper.

I'm still leaning town on him regardless of whether or not doctor would be safe fakeclaim here. It really really isn't ever and I urge people to observe what dead bodies we find the coming days especially if ABR is still kicking. That's my point. He's not a very good lynch today.

[Sensei]

Also, sensei, umm. Shouldn't you be *not* voting if you want to double vote everyone simultaneously to cause two lynches?

Too many people in this game that park on Not Voting/Vanity wagons for 2 weeks to pull that off today unfortunately.
I guess we can still try but it's kinda w/e at this point.
3 days is a lot of time, though, I guess.

[Sensei]

Yos it's time to compromise man.

[Sensei]

Who's defending klingon?

Me and DP? The two towniest people in the game?

[Sensei]

What do you mean?

[Sensei]

VOTE: Zulfy

y

[Sensei]

I wouldn't have a probably lynching any of those honestly.

[Sensei]

problem*

[Sensei]

eta: sensei, no. STAY STRONG.

?

[Sensei]

I'm not into the CoolDog wagon, sorry.

Who are you down to lynch?

[Sensei]

Why not kill him ? Having a conftown is never a good thing for scum, especially if that confotown will become immune to death.

I'm far from the best NK right now imo.
Even then, drixx getting MCed again wouldn't be the complete end of the world.

[Sensei]

If ABR and DP are scum together then I'd be pretty impressed.

[Sensei]

Yea drixx I realized that shortly after literally like 3 posts down.

[Sensei]

Uhh.

Yea sure why not.

[Sensei]

Yo cooldog better get crackin on that fakeclaim.

[Sensei]

You did not just say abr is town for having a lot of posts..

[Sensei]

It would be really cool to lynch two scum today. We can use jedi-mind voodoo to make them bus somehow.
Possibly by getting a nice big wagon on cooldog and then shifting it over to another scum - and going back n forth like that for a while until it's blatantly obvious who's holding a vote back because they're scum who don't want to participate in a double kill.

[Sensei]

UNVOTE:
for now
i want to see if things keep happening and if we could actually pull this off
cooldog just pretend that there's still 2 more votes on you