Inorganic Chemistry [GAME OVER, SCUM WIN]

[mastin2]

Hey, everyone.
This time, let's NOT lynch me.

Because I swear to you, I'm organic, just like last time!




...Wait.

[mastin2]

(No, but seriously, lynching me D1 is a bad idea. It really would be fitting for the game, sure, but objectively it'd be godawful.)

[mastin2]

(Not that that'd really STOP you guys from lynching me ANYWAY given MY luck. )

[mastin2]

You're not my supervisor.

I am, and I say: stop taking the bus; cars rule.

[mastin2]

Vote: mastin

I really think it will work this time.

Deja vu.

Vote: Sonic Boom

.

Because let's face it.
It's Metal Sonic.
And Titus.
METAL SONIC.
And TITUS.

Is there ANY universe where they

aren't

scum here?

[mastin2]

(^Scum bussing, btw.)

[mastin2]

(But you didn't hear it from me. We need the votes, so don't tell them that we know they're bussing.)

[mastin2]

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

You joke, but 'fun' factoid: I regularly search for mentions of my name. Some of them reference previous events, e.g. "In Mastin's Unbalanced Game". Some of them are misapplying my out-of-date mafia theory in newbies. (Quite a lot, actually.) The rest are referencing previous events as incidents, mimicking my style intentionally, and/or calling a player an alt of mine.

Yes, I read them.
Know how many of those are seen fondly?
Well people seem pretty fond of Hilariously Unbalanced 2, but other than that?

Not so much. My reputation, in fact, is almost at me-from-2009-levels. (Not

quite

that bad, but...pretty close.) Like,

Oh and VOTE: mastin for being unbalanced but not hilarious.

You said this as a joke, too.

...You have no clue how much it isn't. Ever heard the term burning bridges? I don't just burn them. I do this to them:

...Except with less heroism involved.

There's a reason I'm using like half a dozen alts these days: because I'm progressively finding that I don't WANT to be mastin anymore--rather, the baggage I have as mastin is too much to carry. One of the main reasons I stick around is that I'm STILL waiting for that one scumgame of mine to show the world, "HA! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY I AM A COMPETENT SCUM PLAYER!" Plus I love the community. (I'd never leave it, but I could in theory disappear as Mastin. I have enough established alts that nobody would know.)

Mental instability, I'll admit, does affect my alts, but to such a small degree it's virtually invisible. Mental instability on ME, however......yeah. Not so much. :/

I wouldn't fake a townslip as scum.
I just wouldn't!

(Actually, I said that for entirely different ~reasons~.)

[mastin2]

ty for not spam. its honestly the last thing i want here

[mastin2]

Mastin, on a scale of 1 to 20, how upset are you that I'm apparently discrediting your scumgame before you've even gotten the chance to sink your claws into this one?

Is 0 a possible answer? Because I'm pretty sure you've done nothing but flatter my scumgame so far.

Oh god, mastin already started with the unreadable walls.

Just the one, and it's a bit personal soyeah you can skip it.

[mastin2]

That Antihero wouldn't be so reckless as to not give scum fakeclaims?

[mastin2]

ok my motivation is back.

Isn't that because Tere is apparently effectively a mollie-alt?

yup. she's gorkington.

But so are you o.o

I decided to crash and burn my reputation by cheating.

(No, Anti, I really, really didn't, please don't lock the thread and waste time investigating the obv-joke.)

Who should I vote for and why Gorkington?

you could vote for mastin because she hasnt thrown reads at people yet.

Actually, I have. Just far more subtly than normal. (You'd be surprised how much you can convey in the RVS.)

[mastin2]

Jingle's sick and I'm going on vacation, so we'll get to this in a bit.

Have a nice trip! Hope your travels are productive.

[mastin2]

Is this where I claim Mason before we waste the next 20-50 pages blueballing my lynch?

No, because if it was, then I'd be calling you town before you claim, remain ignorant of your claim while I'm behind and continue to defend you against old attacks.

BTW tere, you will wan tto do your best to avoid sonic boom.

Or we can lynch them!

[mastin2]

Is this where I discredit your townplay instead now?

Not if you want to have any chance whatsoever of getting on my good side.

[mastin2]

Interesting is a dumb cop-out word.

Yep! There's a reason I say, "define 'interesting'" every time someone uses it.

A man should take advantage of a young woman!

(Remind me to no-context this post-game.)

bins replaces gorkington! thanks!

BINS! <3 <3 <3

(Please don't be scum.)

[mastin2]

i also think that mastina is town

I wish the feeling was mutual.

Btw, Mac's town.100%. Not saying why. If you can't figure it out, just trust me, okay? (I'll need to take a look at that wagon to see where the scum are in it.)

Mastin has posted quite a bit but hasn't actually done anything.

Oi!

Not so.

I've just been doing things subtly. (Rather, not so subtly, basically all-but-explicitly-but-technically-not.)

[mastin2]

Ika, Titus, Marquis , and mastin2 have played with me before, but the game is ongoing, so I don't really know if they'll be able to offer any insight at this point.

Not under your name I haven't. I pretty much assumed you were an alt, but I don't know of who and I'm pretty sure I'd remember playing with you if you were using this name.

so many townreads from people
so little reason

Well in my case it's for good reason. I have plenty of reads, but the Mac read is a pretty dang important one given that he's being wagoned and I'm certain he is town.

Also, ika's full of it. His iso's longer than mine; skimmed my

ass

.

[mastin2]

mastin2: I'm not an alt, and you're part of a hydra in the game.

Oh.

Key word, part of a hydra. That answers your questions there. (I'm practically nonexistent in my hydras, and I recently discovered why. Within reason, the more games I'm in, the more motivation I have to log into an account. But because hydras I play in are only in one game at a time, and I absolutely LOATHE hydra-slipping [often only doing so either to make a point or because I'd probably not make the post otherwise], that means my motivation to actually log into the account I'm playing as is virtually nil.)

So no, I am definitely not familiar with you. Never read a word of what you said I don't think.

Mac is popular with the votes because your strongest town read put together a circumstantial case against him that some people agree with.

And I am telling you, Mac is town.

VOTE: Mac

I've beat around the bush on this, but I'm dead serious when I say that Sonic Boom is scum. (Okay admittedly the vote started as RVS because I didn't have any better ideas, but I figured there was a good chance it'd be a good vote anyway because--like how I am never scum--Titus is never town, and Sonic is, well, Sonic. )

There are many reasons for it (mainly that they're both playing like their scum selves), but this in particular is a highlight. I was very, VERY clear in saying Mac was town.

Whichever head it is, Sonic, Titus, doesn't matter. (It's more egregious if it's Titus, but I think it was Sonic.) Them ignoring that and voting Mac is very, very much a scumclaim.

[mastin2]

Just did a quick search for the votes.

Unvote. Vote: Mac

Meh vote. Could be town, could be scum.

I'm at school. Probably going to vote Mac.

pseudo-vote. (Bins, please don't be scum.)

If scum is on our wagon, it's Mac. This post reeks.

and yeah, sure, page 4 i have decided to bus shakira
you got me
good job!

VOTE: Mac
-Flum

Admittedly not a terribly-reasoned vote, but utterly wrong.

VOTE: Mac

First vote. More likely than not town.

I also see in Anti's iso a Flubber vote (will need to check where; Search didn't find it) and the Sonic Boom vote which was terrible.

Soooooooooooo,
Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed, Wickedest, pseudo-Bins, Sonic Boom, and Flubber.

Frankly the only name on there I wouldn't lynch right now is Ankamius.

[mastin2]

HAHA, I'm not dead! I'm gonna spend what time I can today reading the thread, but I'm working and it's Comiccon two blocks away, so I'll probably be busy.

I imagine traffic's a...

killer

.

Cool. Is it working?

I'd say so, yes. Pretty sure this approach to the game will be far more healthy than norm, not to mention, productive.

Cerb is town. Titus is scum.

I agree with this sentiment.

The only question is whether it comes from town or scum. (I originally thought the latter, but that's been weakened. Not reversed, but weakened.)

look, only scum will wagon our slot d1. like seriously how many times must this theory be proven right

When I skimmed Anti's iso, I saw you got at least four votes, perhaps more littered throughout the thread that were taken off too. Who's the scum in them? (Okay, admittedly Shakira is among them.)

[mastin2]

Mac is giving me some horrible vibes.

If Mac and I are still both alive by oh, saaaaaaaaaaaaay, D4, you have my permission to revisit things.

'Til then, just shut up; he is town.

Doesn't she seem irregularly absent?

Actually I'd say my investment is

slightly

greater than norm. Mostly because we don't want to repeat history.

Cerb's early posts just feel

off

to me, and I'm not sure I can explain why.

My feelings there are meh-at-best. I've got no problems with Cerb, and frankly don't like the wagon there.

Unable/Unwilling to sort:
ZZZX

Hrmmm:
Mac
Sonic Boom
Jaqen Hghar
Flubbernugget
Ankamius
Bins

Scum:
Cerberus v666

ZX I'm *decently* sure is town, here, but not absolutely sure. Mac is town, Sonic Boom scum. Give me time on Jaqen. Flubber's a figure of interest, and Ankamius a weak townread. When it comes to Bins, her predecessor I know has a style which apparently is similar to my own. And this entire time during the game, I was thinking, "Okay, his style is supposed to be like my own...and I can see it in his posting. But if I were him posting like that...I'd be scum." Bins is sweet to look at, but her in-game actions haven't done anything to convince me otherwise--and have actually sort-of reinforced that.

And I really don't see the Cerb case.

For a start.

[mastin2]

If someone is thinking Mac is scum/town may you present something a simple person like me can understand? I have not seen anything worthy of both from him tbh

Reasoning? Because I said so. There.

[mastin2]

Mastin, why is cerb town?

Gut? Like, I don't really have a handle on Cerb from any objective standpoint, but the wagon on him just

feels

wrong.

VOTE: mac
if he flips scum cerberus just failed at chainsawing

This, btw, mastin. It's kinda terrible.

Oh.
Yeah, that's pretty awful.

[mastin2]

*Clarification: my feelings about a wagon ON Cerb are meh-at-best; my feelings ABOUT Cerb are meh-at-worst.

[mastin2]

Jingle. sthar's still in Mexico or wherever.

Lazy bastard's taking a vacation in the middle of our game.



(<3 sthar.)

[mastin2]

mastin, lying cat is scum. Thoughts?

No.

also how come you don't care to sort me?

Forcing a sort never goes well. It just kinda...well,

happens

. Or doesn't, in which case I'm screwed, but

generally

it happens. (The times it doesn't happen are the times where I am a no-reads lategame deadweight unable to sort through the mess and get something coherent. Frankly, I'd take being wrong over being so crippling indecisive, but fortunately, it's pretty rare. The indecisiveness, that is. The wrongness, sadly not so much. I'm not

bad

, but I'm far from the levels of good I once was.)

@Mastina, why should I trust you on Mac when I know you cannot read me. Since that is your proudest read, why should anyone trust your reads now? You have been parked on my ass since the start out of policy.

You would, if town, trust me on Mac because me saying Mac is 100% town should be enough to make you trust my call--maybe not permanently, but enough that you wouldn't flagrantly ignore it and go on to immediately vote Mac.

I voted you initially as a "sure, why not" vote. Like, "You know, they're probably going to be scum anyway, so I might as well give them the formal greeting they deserve." of sorts. It was just a random vote, though, at the time. Your actions, like this, have since made it solid. But the Mac townread is much stronger than my scumread on you--I didn't say you were 100% scum, now, did I?

My point exactly.

did you conveniently ignore how i unvoted mac and put it on cerb like 20 posts later

Irrelevant. I had already, well before the vote in the first place, said Mac was town. The timeline isn't, "Vote: Mac", "Mac's town", "K, Vote: Cerb"; it's "Mac's town", "Vote: Mac", "No, seriously, Mac's town", "Unrelatedly, Vote: Cerb".

Speaking of which, you still on there? 'Cause I hate that wagon, y'know.

[mastin2]

I'm back here, but don't have the time to read at the moment.

Mod: V/LA for the next two weeks or so.

College finals and whatnot, including me here trying to, y'know. Not totally and utterly fail my class which I'm on the verge of.
Particularly, I shouldn't have even been visiting the site on Tuesdays (today), or Thursdays. (But here I am because I am a MORON. At least I'm smart enough not to tackle the nine pages?)

[mastin2]

Good

god

, this game really

is

gonna be a repeat of the first.

Wouldn't surprise me at all to find interest in lynching me, maybe even a wagon right now, because I've been posting elsewhere on the site but procrastinating here a bit because it's too much of a workload to tackle in a single sitting and I'd prefer to get it done in one and all that. But I really do swear, I'm going to get caught up in the game. Not right now, but

maybe

later today (don't get your hopes up; family night is a shot in the dark: sometimes I can, sometimes I can't), and yes it will get done.

I did mention I'm V/LA (I should officially banner it) for good reason. College stuff and whatnot, less time to work. Should be done come Wednesday, but until then my hands are pretty tied.

[mastin2]

Good news.
College graduation = more free time.

Bad news.
Depression from other events + busy day = it's 2:30 in the morning right now and I aint catching up tonight. I'll do it tomorrow, though, since I can. (I don't THINK I have any other obligations other than work, but work's in the evening rather than morning/afternoon tomorrow.)

[mastin2]

Hey, let's play the bad news good news game again.

Bad news: I probably won't get fully caught up. It got late fast. Time flew way faster than it should have.

Good news: I know that if I don't start doing

something

tonight, I'll not get it done at all.
"Uhh...that doesn't sound like good news."
Well, no, it's absolutely terrible, but the thing that makes it good news is that I'm actually going to be doing something to stop it from getting worse at the very least. Get as much done as I can.

...Worse news, though: I have completely disassociated myself with the game. I don't remember a thing.

I remember where I was, though, so I'm continuing reading from 22.

[mastin2]

Reading Wicked as prob-town for what it's worth, though. (Which means he's almost certainly scum. )

Mastina you are not a scumhunting god, not since your hiatus no

Right. Sonic Boom is scum. I remember that, too.

Not that I'd need to since this series of posting would be enough on its own.

(Wouldn't surprise me at all if Metal Sonic's quoting the evil overlord list in his topic. )

Also, pretty dang sure this is ZX as town. (But Sonic Boom pushing them this way as scum certainly contributes to some of that.)

At the surface, this sounds really arrogant.

Not arrogance. Experience.

There are certain things that when they happen.
You just fundamentally know.
That either the player is scum.
Or something has gone horribly,

horribly

wrong.
The former being the infinitely more likely of the two.

This is one of them.

(Still think Shakira is a Sonic buddy.)

[mastin2]

Why so sure the cat is innocent, mastin?

Because I'm arrogant.

VOTE: Cerberus

Aaaannd, the votes I don't approve of continue.

(Also, Flubb MAY be scum. Hard to say for sure.)

also, I'm pretty worried that the players on the wagon on my slot right now mostly *looks like town*

Well there's always Shakira to bus you!

[mastin2]

One thing i am interested in is mastin's read on me. What is going on there?

Don't question the mastin. It leads to bad things happening.

Bins
Sonic
Cerebus
ZZZX

Well, half aint bad.

Also, Jaqen's not a concern of mine to sort. Not right now. That'll happen later. Basically, the way to read Jaqen is reads getting better = town, reads getting worse = scum. Gun to head would be town though. (Though that's also aided by having too many scumreads. How many scum are there in this game again? Four? Five? I think I have at least that many suspicions. )

[mastin2]

Mastin, Jingle says you're town. Is he being dumb?

Nope! I'm just hoping that

I'm

not being dumb in trusting

you

to be town.

She just seems fake in a lot of posts. Is anyone town reading her?

Huh. Funny you mention that. The bit about seeming fake.

There are players in this game I'd apply that to, but I'm certainly not one of them.

lmfao, hiplop's vote is terrible as fuck, kill it

Well, yes. I admit that means between you/hiplop/Shakira that means it's unlikely you're all scum too unless you're going all L4D on us, but I happen to think that of the three, you're the most likely to be scum and from there I can figure out which of them is likely to be a buddy.

Sonic Boom - 6 (mastin2, Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed, Tere, Jaqen Hghar, hiplop)
Thoughts on the above? i see two of my stronger town reads(shakira and jaqen) voting for my other strong town read. Ank is nulltown, hiplop nullscum, mastin null null.

(Psst. It means your read on Sonic is wrong.)

[mastin2]

(BTW in case it wasn't obvious Ank is also a townread of mine, and while I don't remember what my thoughts were on Tere I THINK they were positive, so that's why the wagon save for Shakira and hiplop looks good.)

Spoiler: Woe is Me/Non Game Related

If anyone does care about my lack of presence, I was sick enough to miss work for the first time in 2 years last week and I haven't been taking the time to actually get better because one of my friends with a history of severe depression and suicidal thoughts is going through a divorce.

Take care, and be safe.

Least happy with hiplop, Bins and Sonic Boom at the mo, but not clear enough on a read to have a vote sitting there unattended. Will look again properly on Monday.

Yeah, Tere's town.

^scum setting up compromise lynch

Very well could be, yes. (The alternative is scum theatrics.)

(Also, as much as I <3 Bins, it should be obvious, yes I do think she's scum. )

Sonic Boom - 6 (

mastin2

,

Ankamius

,

Shakira Confirmed

,

Tere

,

Jaqen Hghar

, hiplop)

I'll admit to being a bit mystified on the Sonic wagon. Jaqen votes them for being dismissive. Mastin's sure because they were not trusting her on make, which is interesting. Ank's case seems the clearest, Sonic misrepping ank and saying he's being a sheep. Shak appears to not have shared any reasons, although I get the feeling it's the Ank thing from what goes on in the thread there. Tere votes for "little things". And Hiplop's already been discussed.

Of this, I think that Ank is probably town. The outrage at being misrepped feels more likely from town than scum and I'm reading it as very genuine. Shakira's vote feels like buddying Ank, and honestly Shakira or hiplop is probably the scum there if there's scum on the wagon. I liked early mastin in this game. She seems to not be able to explain anything she's thinking, as opposed to not wanting to, which is minor townfeels. That and my super secret mastin-and-sthar8 tell didn't give me scumvibes. Tere's interactions with ika make her town and ika slightly on the scum side of null. Overall, this feels like a townled wagon. Which doesn't necessarily mean it's right, but is reassuring as to it's validity.

Which means you should have no problem sheeping me on it!

[mastin2]

VOTE: hiplop
cherry-picked case on tere is awful

Yeah, not interested in lynching hiplop today.

Bins - 3 (Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)
Cerberus v666 - 1 (Flubbernugget)
hiplop - 3 (Sonic Boom, vezokpiraka, Mac)
Sonic Boom - 4 (mastin2, Ankamius, hiplop, Sharkira Confirmed)
vezokpiraka - 1 (ZZZX)
Not Voting: Bins, Cerberus v666, ika, Kari, Tere

That Bins wagon is actually really, really strong. Like, legitimately scarily strong. I mean, the other big wagons are good, it's just that they don't have the same magic attached to them.

VOTE: Bins.

/40. Should stop here, though. I'm losing my mental energy.

[mastin2]

Think I can compile a readslist, though.

Mac
Lying Cat
ZZZX
Ankamius
Tere
Cerberusv666
Jaqen Hghar
Wickedestjr
vezokpiraka
Kari <--This is the nullline.
ika
hiplop
Shakira Confirmed
Flubbernugget
Bins
Sonic Boom

I'll continue tomorrow.

[mastin2]

Hiplop is mega desperate for a cw.

Pretty sure hiplop

is

the counterwagon. To Bins and Sonic Boom.

That those wagons fell apart (particularly the Bins wagon), and the hiplop wagon didn't, tells loads about it.

Like I said.
Yeah, hiplop's posting is pretty awful. I just don't think he's scum.

On the other hand, when it comes to Bins, on the one hand her posting is more friendly (which is why I don't want to lynch her), but on the other hand I really think she's actually scum (which means I have to ).

The hiplop wagon was interestingly fast, and cropped up in response to the bins one. That means hiplop is probably town, and at least one of Bin's partners is involved in pushing the wagon.

Oi!

Stop stealing my content before I can make it mine!

(Did I mention Lying Cat is town?)

aaaand this looks like a super backtrack because of the bad vote above.

Vote: Shakira Confirmed

#924 looks like some really good analysis from the jingle head of lying cat; happy to say there are town for now at least.

No argument here! (Even if I wasn't already, this post alone would be enough to call Mac town.)

Hiplop is mega desperate for a cw. Interestingly won't sheep the sonic wagon

>desperate for a counterwagon
>won't vote the two big wagons either side of him
something doesn't add up.[/quote] (Like, seriously, this is just town.)

This is one of those situations where I can simultaneously understand why hiplop has so many votes, and yet the fact that this one point

got

so many votes makes me wonder if it's really a scum case.

My feelings exactly. (Did I mention Ankamius is town?)

So bins you and hiplop are both scum?

(Note that Flubber's on hiplop at this point.)

[mastin2]

I reaaaly hate LC's interaction with hiplop. If hiplop flips scum LC is next.

Very important question: still hold this belief?
Very important question #2: If you haven't stated it already, what's your read on me?

Does this seriously worry no one else? Push on bins>wagon on hiplop grows.

*raises hand*

Flubbs may be scum here, BTW.

Pretty much, yeah.

Marquis is posting exactly like he is in Large Theme Signs and Void. Punctuation and all. I told this to Titus in our pt. she confirms the read, though we were holding it close to our chest because we are definitely getting chainsawed if we get so many scum right.

Good point. Hadn't really thought of that particular one against Shakira.

[mastin2]

If Mastina is being pretty clear then clue us in as neither Sonic or I know what she is doing.

Oh, I'm being pretty clear in what I'm doing alright. It's just that if anyone thinks that there's anything scum in it, they're either scum or horribly,

horribly

wrong. (I don't have the game experience with ika to tell which'd he be. If we had more games together, definitely the former, but since we don't, could be either.)

VOTE: hiplop
i got cold feet earlier but realising that the entire wagon is town driven (sans cerberus) i am okay with this. maybee it could be a mastinwagon that happened in organic chem. i don't know. town can certainly be wrong, but more often than not they are right

Jaqen, you want a player being cheeky,

this

is a player being cheeky.

[mastin2]

Mastin's posting is ew

Substantiate this. I'm not interested in anyone else's answer before Flubber's by the way.

Frankly, I don't care about Flubber's response.

It's

Sonic

taking the same stance that is.

[mastin2]

Sonic super readslist @ Page 51

STRONG Town

Sonic Boom (Metal Sonic + Titus)
ZZZX
Tere
vezokpiraka
Jaqen Hghar
------- <---- dont lynch above this line

Town

Ankamius
Flubbernugget
Wickedestjr
Mac
------- <------ line of maybeness

UNSURE/NULL

ika
Lying Cat (sthar8 + Jingle)
mastin2
Kari
Cerberus v666
--
Shakira Confirmed (Marquis + Fluminator)
hiplop
Bins

Scum

God

damn

it, Sonic.

Every fiber of my body is telling me that this is you, somehow, being scum. That either you're bussing a lot or my other reads are wrong. That you're making a list to look good. Every bone in me. Especially considering Titus. And knowing that you're you, that you're perfectly capable of pulling something like this and getting away with it.

But goddammit. This post alone is making me think, no. It shouldn't. Given the above I should still be thinking, scum. But I'm not.

...Do me a favor and vote Bins for me, though?

[mastin2]

I assume these playing have a lot of time they've spent together so there's probably some sense to the claim of knowing what mastin is doing...

Nope! Frankly, there's...well, nobody in the game really who has the game experience to just, "get" me. The closest players are the hydras, Lying Cat (both)/Sonic Boom (both)/Shakira Confirmed (Marquis) in that order, but the playerlist is just filled with people who know me more by my reputation in a game than for the actual play I do in games itself. ika included.

No, I was saying that it came across as arrogant that the reason you claimed to scum read them was because they didn't blindly sheep you instantly on Mac being 99% town.

And my statement stands. Not arrogance: experience. Them not following me means either they're scum or something went horribly, horribly wrong.

If you're town, please be useful.

Bluntly, I'm being more useful than (almost) the entire rest of the town combined. (A few players like Lying Cat give me a run for my money and some others have solid contributions in spite of not working well with others. Butyeah, for the most part, I can say with no arrogance, few players match my usefulness in the game right now. Sure,

yeah

, for the massive stretch of the game where I was inactive, I was deadweight, but now that I'm here, not so much.)

Which players? The same as your scum reads?

No, my strongest townreads.

I'm interested that Mastin is the second person to claim we are buddying Ank.

What.

I mean, I've been calling you scum since the beginning of the game, but I'm pretty sure you buddying Ank was not among the charges.

She's also coincidentally scum reading all the biggest wagons when she comes back.

No, I

made

one of the largest wagons, and I would have scumread the wagons before they existed. In fact I did. I held suspicion on Bins before she was Bins. (It's there in my iso, clearly identified.) Hiplop I also showed vague suspicion to before the wagon there developed.

See also: I'm one of THE most influential players in the game.

[mastin2]

Thing is, in my perspective the wagon is by all town. You don't think ZZZX is town, but I do.

Why? Legitimately. I want to know why in particular each member of the wagon is town.

Yea, I haven't seen anything to make me think he's town yet. VOTE: Hiplop

So... Why vote him? He hasn't done anything town. But you also don't share what makes him scum? Why wander blindly onto a lynch you don't actually care about instead of, you know, pushing someone you think is scum? And before you mention the rest of your post, why are either of those scummy? Cause you didn't say shit.

^Valid.

I'll spoil it for you. You'll continue to townread us for today. Tomorrow, you're gonna have doubts, but dismiss them. Day 3 you're gonna paranoia scumread us, and then N3 we get shot, and you kick yourself because we were obviously town the next day.

Sounds about right!

Jaq higher, Z and Cerbs lower.

Jaqen and above was basically my, "from here up, these are pretty strong townreads" point.

Hiplop is probably a designated mislynch, given how fast that wagon formed with roughly fuckall of a case to push it.[ I expect the wagon has two scum. I'm also waffling hard on Titus.

Now I remember why I get paranoid of you being scum.

Because, dammit, your thoughts are just too much like my own.

[mastin2]

I see you posting elsewhere.

And I have said many, many times that this is a null tell. MANY. times. Don't make me get the expletive-laden caps-wrought misspelling-filled rant out again.

(Hiplop's posting is "Pretty awful" but you don't think he's scum).

Yep! Pretty much.

Town:
vezokpiraka
ZZZX
Tere
ika
Cerberus v666
Ankamius
Bins
Null-town:
Flubbernugget
Sonic Boom (I'd rank them town, but Marq makes me less sure)
Null:
Mac
Kari
Wickedestjr
Lying Cat
Null-scum:
Jaqen Hghar
Scum:
mastin2
hiplop

Btw, these reads are pretty awful.

Justsayin'.

[mastin2]

Also, Mastin's "Good point. I haven't thought of that!" to a person saying they have a meta scum read makes no sense.

Fail to see how it doesn't. It's a valid point. It doesn't mean you're scum, and even if you are it doesn't mean Sonic's town (though it could be a potential indicator of townness), but that doesn't lessen how valid a point it is.

Don't be intimidated by her, "people scum reading me are scum "

Actually, it's the other way around. Everyone I'm scumreading me OGMUSed me

after

my scumread had been there. You, Titus, who else? I had early scumreads on you two, and Bins's slot, and Flubber. (Oh, him too.)

If we play the quote-the-post-number game, you'll lose. By a very large margin.

[mastin2]

mastina, I

dont

freaking

trust you.

And therein lies the problem:

If you were town, I'm having extreme,

extreme

difficulties comprehending how you WOULDN'T be trusting me.

[mastin2]

The closest players are the hydras, Lying Cat (both)/Sonic Boom (both).

(BTW, this is basically why my suspicion of Sonic Boom exists. Lying Cat, made up of Jingle and sthar8, both players with extensive experience with me, are working well with me, synching up with me near-perfectly, having almost exactly the same reads and reasoning and whatnot, and are just sort-of "getting" me. Sonic Boom should be able to do the same, with both heads having extensively played with me, knowing what makes me town and not-so-town, understanding where I'm coming from, and just having "got" me...yet neither has. And the one who is closer to having done so is Metal Sonic, when frankly it should be TITUS who's closer to getting me than Sonic.)

[mastin2]

It's the thought that goes
"Hey, mastina is wrong on me, what's preventing him from being wrong on the rest of his reads?"
Credibility down

You were the damn FOCUS OF THIS. EXACT. SUBJECT. in Team Mafia.

I made it clear then.

My townread on TTH was 100%.
My scumread on DV was by comparison closer to 95%.

Later, though,
My scumread on DV was 100%,
In comparison to my townread on you being closer to 90%.

And I made this ABUNDANTLY clear back then, and CRYSTAL clear here: my read on you in this game, at the time, was a WEAK scumread, spawned more from a joke/policy than legitimate concerns, whereas my townread on Mac was much more than that...and you brushed it off, treating it as if the two reads were equal when they were, explicitly, NOT.

[mastin2]

Mastin is not sonic's favorite brand names

Well I can understand not being THE favorite, but not being *a* favorite, I can't.

[mastin2]

I've read all of mastin's posts

and I'm not sure who she's scumreading. Although she's townreading half the game. Can you post a reads list mastin?

Liar.

It's pretty abundantly clear who I'm scumreading, especially since I've multiple times hammered it in. The readslist I already made in particular.

I just find it funny how she says she's the most useful player to the town when she doesn't do anything but buddy a couple people, do a bunch of gambits that don't accomplish anything, and scum read at least one person who is town.

Normally I'd have some sort of better response here. But this is just so wrong that there's literally nothing that can convey my thoughts more than that emote.

Mastin- just because someone who knows you doesn't take your word on reads doesn't mean they're scum. I don't always trust you.

But it's the WAY in which it's done which is so concerning. If I say I have a strong townread on someone, let's say 80-95%, then disagreeing is not impossible, but it's something worth having a long discussion about--not flagrantly ignoring mind you, but having a talk about. If I have a read which is 96-100%, then even the talk shouldn't happen; it should just be an, "Okay, Mastin, if you're wrong, this one's on you" thing. The only case where it'd be okay to blatantly ignore my read is if the read is weak...and even THEN doing so is not ideal; there should instead be them trying to persuade me I'm wrong.

Again. None of this happened.

Also, I'm roughly 80% on Sonic and Z not being scumbuddies, so I think they deserve a reread.

Well I have ZX as town, so.

[mastin2]

Just the fact that you have to tell her that people not instantly sheeping her reads is not a scum tell makes me bang my head.

Big gigantic misrep of the whole situation.

Also, Lying Cat is wrong. I'm not sthar8. Nor am I Majiffy. I can and have worked well with them. There was a point in time when I could perfectly synch up with Majiffy if we shared the same alignment in a game, and Lying Cat is no slouch in working with me either (as shown by us having basically the same reads/reasoning this game). But I am not them. Nor am I mollie, who I also once worked well with. Nor am I Nacho, who was the first person I hydraed with to the point where I at one time could make a picture-perfect imitation of his posting, confusing people as to which head had posted. Nor am I AP, the poster closest to being me at many times throughout our career. Nor am I ETL, who I helped teach. I'm CERTAINLY not Bulbazak, nor a player like F-16.

I am me. I mean, everyone is their own person, but nobody is moreso than me, being me. Literally. nobody. else. Changes as much as I do. (The closest player to being me? DrippingGoofBall, with all the bad and good that comes with it. Alternates between spamposting and wallposting, mistress of VCA, arrogance, humbleness, crazy, charismatic, wildly inconsistent, you get the idea. So if you want to get a handle on my alignment, go read a DGB game or ten.) Tells for other players don't work on me, though vice-versa isn't always the case. (Basically, a tell which works on me can and will work on others; there's a reason I use things

I

would do as scum as a metric to read others, because I know that I have an A+ scumgame that is in top-form. A tell which works on others doesn't work on me, though, because I've outgrown such weaknesses, such limitations, in my game.) Heck, a good 90% of the "tells" people THINK work on me don't, and have been proven many times why not. (For instance, the lurking = scum tell has caused my death a great many number of games...with one of them being scum, yes, but dozens of them being town. For every scumgame I lurked, ten towngames with lurking exist, because lurking is a real-life tell, not an alignment-tell; if I am lurking, it means things aren't going well in my life and I'm busy. I could go into a great many deal of links to previous games of mine to demonstrate why this is so. It's a trend that existed back in the days of Mastin, continued into the early days of mastin2, and exists to this day as me. So in any point in time, I can show it.)

The townread is correct, but his reasoning is almost certainly wrong.

[mastin2]

She can't beat me.

Maybe not by official records, but I still claim the moral victory for the first Antihero game where I nailed your entire scumteam. (Shame I was a mason so my death wasn't noteworthy.)

Here, she's refusing to provide anything that resembles a fully fleshed out read.

Really now? I'm pretty sure I've explicitly said why I've held my stances this game, on both town and scum.

With one or two exceptions, of course, but mostly it's there.

She is refusing to get on Hiplop for no reason. She thinks his posts are terrible but refuses to vote.

Yep! Blatantly so!

That town game from Mastin looks just as awful in that game as this one. She seemed to be just as wrong in that one too.

Yup, confirmation that you didn't pay attention to that game at all. I scumread ika, Shaft, PeregrineV, vonflare/theamateur, Marquis (note that if the town had listened to me we would have had a perfect victory by lynching Marquis), and slightly Aeronaut. Plus 4nxi3ty (a 3p, but not harmful like Marquis/Aeronaut). The only scum I didn't scumread was Flubber, but he was a nullread not a townread.

My reads were god-tiered that game.
I'd happily accept a repeat performance of THAT game here.
(Thing is, though, that

was

the exception to the rule. I'm normally not

that

good. If I was, you'd be seeing me nomed for a best scumhunter scummie, yet here I am without one because nope, not a scumhunting god. That game shows what I CAN be. It is an absolutely horrible representation though of what I AM. That's a mediocre scumhunter: I get good reads, especially if I say explicitly that they are to be followed. I also get bad reads, reads which I typically don't push that hard because I don't have absolute belief in them. Sometimes it's higher, with a great amount of accuracy save for a few faults. Often, it's lower, with a few good things worth listening to but having gotten off-track. If I was consistently that good, then the game would be much easier for me. But I'm not. So I make do with what I've got.
...Still nail scum more often than not, though.)

If she's made herself a reputation of being super arrogant, she's obviously going to act the same way as scum.

Fun fact: I'm not actually that arrogant. I get delusions of grandeur, but I fully recognize them as delusions of grandeur, dreams of being the scumhunting god I know I am not. For the most part, I actually don't hold much confidence in my abilities. However, that means that the few times that I DO hold confidence, the few times I DO push things hard, I expect to be listened to, ESPECIALLY by those who know me well. (Thus, the Sonic Boom doubt, because both of them should recognize this. There was zero arrogance in MOST of my reads...but the confidence I got in some of them shouldn't have been ignored.)

Fun fact #2, though, you're actually right on this one: as scum, it's ridiculously easy for me to hide behind arrogance, but I hate arrogance with an absolute passion. You might see it in my posting, but that's because you haven't seen what my actual arrogance looks like. "Oh, yeah, they're scum" is basically the worst I've done this game, and if you think that's arrogance...you've got another thing coming for you later.

[mastin2]

From what I knew of Mastin outside this game, she always struck me as humble, maybe a little self deprecating even. This seems so fake that I can't fathom a genuine thought process behind this.

Your impression is correct. I am humble, even self-deprecating.

But if you think 534 is arrogance?

I don't know what to say other than, lol.

I meant it when I said: not arrogance. experience. Arrogance is thinking that I'm infallible, that there's no way that I could be wrong, with no prior experience to back that up, no knowledge, no wisdom, that shows what I'm saying. Experience is knowing I could be wrong...but all the circumstances off of my prior experience are telling me, through my collective knowledge and wisdom, that what I'm saying is most likely true.

[mastin2]

*Clarification on the arrogance thing. Me not being arrogant only applies to my towngame. I am, 100%, absolutely, arrogant about the quality of my scumgame, for dang-good reason. Mac said it himself on this page as to why. I've pulled some incredible feats of amazing scumplay. Anything Goes, Left 4 Dead (I hardbussed all my buddies and them me and each other...but JUST soft enough that none of us would be lynched, then on D2 when I saw a guilty on me unclaimed from Molla but clearly existing I claimed scum in-thread to troll and throw the validity of said guilty into question, ultimately culminating in a free mislynch down the road and us being able to kill the unprotected cop), Attack on Titan (don't let the townwin fool you; all three scum were the three leading wagons D1 when I came in, and I managed to entirely reverse that around), Paranoia (where I had to deal with a modified mafia usurper [GreyICE, no less! With AP, yes, THAT AP, hunting me!] with ME as the target, all the while ALSO dealing with the town...and won), and other such things. When I am scum, I basically own the game. So I'm quite proud of my scumgame and will talk with extreme arrogance about it, but it's justified arrogance because I've EARNED that respect. (I may have not won, but I've once or twice been nominated for Don Corelone for good reason.) So while I'm not arrogant as town, and generally am not arrogant as scum (because I despise that tactic--it's so pathetically easy to make work it's laughable), I do TALK about my scumgame with arrogance.

Mastin: If there's a small part of the game that I should go back and reread, what would it be?

I dunno, don't really have any.

Maybe 30-40? I seemed to have a lot of content in there when I was catching up.

You can never go wrong with rereading the RVS, though, so 1-10 might be a good idea.

[mastin2]

Well I've done it before and it served me well.

notscience in the second Antihero game being a good example of one I just kinda ~got~ and if I hadn't let go of would have let us win.

[mastin2]

@Lying Cat/Mastina, Why am I supposed to belive Mastina being OMG super right when I threw her off the majority of Signs and Void?

Because you didn't. You'd have the proof if we decide to release our PT. The townread on you was initially mainly because of needing an ally as I told pie, and then grew into frustration. I didn't townread you off of you, I townread you because I was frustrated at others ignoring me.

@Mastina, Yeah, I get it, you lurk because real life. Irrelevant. If I see you avoiding this thread, I start to think scum.

The two are one and the same. I lurk because of real-life. I avoid the thread yet post elsewhere as part of that. It's how my mind works. Period. When I said this was proven countless times...really do mean it, countless times. The first game, Organic Chemistry, in particular. I was so involved with Tales that I neglected that. People

thought

it was a scumtell, but it wasn't. It was me prioritizing very, very poorly because that's how my mind works.

I come to games when I come to games.
When I come to a game has no relevance on my alignment in the game.

Until you give me a reason why you're not voting hiplop, I'm presuming you're buddies with hiplop.

And I'll continue calling you scum for it. I'm not voting hiplop because in spite of seeing how bad he looks, it looks scummy yet I don't feel he's actually scum. Go brush up on my theory if you don't understand what the distinction means for me.

[mastin2]

Basically?

Yes.

The text-based adventure in my signature I keep putting off because I always fear coming back to it. Mindstate.
Half-way through the speakeasy poll, I avoided reading it at one point because I was too busy and there were a number of pages. I posted in other speakeasy threads that were faster to do, and came back when I had the time. Mindstate.
I have alts that I sometimes neglect because there's too much work to do between them AND my main, so they get at risk of being prodded. Mindstate.
I post elsewhere but not here because I make the determination that either (1) I have enough time so I can do the game whenever I feel like it, or (2) I don't have enough time so I'll do things that I DO have time for so that next time I come there's less work to do. Mindstate.

Is it a good mindstate, no, but is it how I think?
Yes.

If you haven't figured that out by playing with me by now...then you really don't know me at all. Because, duh...it's there everywhere in my posting?

[mastin2]

I just don't see any town coming from vote parking us all game, not reading, not having solid reads, not acting consistently with how you're feeling and then pushing those who highlight this.

...

VOTE: Titus.

[mastin2]

Huh.

Coulda

sworn

I posted more recently than that.

But back on 56. Too busy to catch up right now (I didn't log in to play this game, I logged in for other reasons that'd take less time to do than 8 full pages of reading/responding here would), but I'll do it later if I can. (Depends on my availability, which I don't know right now. Might have more time than normal, might have less.)

[mastin2]

So my view-latest thingie says I'm on 68, but my last post was a declaration that I needed to catch up. The

actual

page I'm back on is 56.

Saw the flip, though.

VOTE: Sonic Boom.

[mastin2]

Probably my last post before I catch up.

I'm anticipating today being very busy, so it'd probably be best to avoid trying to get caught up today, as much as I need to.
Tomorrow's Father's Day, which I'll be celebrating with my family, so obviously I'm not going to be around then.

However, work is shifting to a Summer schedule, which means that my hours change come Monday...leaving my afternoon entirely free. I should be able to catch up then.

[mastin2]

I'd be kinda a jerk if I went to comment on other games and sign up for one or two without paying attention to one I'm already in.

It's late (12:15 am), well, lateish, so no guarantees on how much I'll get done, but I can stay up late tonight because I'm doing nothing tomorrow, if I go to bed without finishing there's always tomorrow, and whatnot. Meaning I'm about to get as much done as I can. No promises I'll get it all, though.

[mastin2]

Mastin, if you're town, can you please stop making every post a rave about how good you are at this game and actually post something meaningful or relevant?

Everything I say is relevant, except when it isn't? (And the division between the two is very, very obvious. If I started rambling about, I dunno, traffic I had in my commute in a single post or a series of posts right next to one another that stop right then and there, probably fluff. I start ranting about road conditions in several posts strewn across a wide timeframe, probably not irrelevant.)

Like, why are you spending time saying, "The scum I was town reading in that game wasn't actually a town read, I was just pretending she was."

If someone is discrediting me THIS game by using evidence from a PREVIOUS game?

Heck yes I'm going to defend it. (Yes, I'm back here. I told you I was behind. I'll get as much as I can done.)

Mastina: Show me a detailed reading that's more than someone disagreeing with you.

Everywhere in my iso? Like, I've been calling the same people scum for quite a long time.

I've kinda...forgotten all my reads except that you're so totally scum, so I don't even remember who else I was scumreading (other than the incorrect read on Bins ), but it's still there all the same.

[mastin2]

(Speaking of Bins, happy scumday, Bins, and I'm sorry that I scumread you? An apology counts as a mafiascum present, right? )

[mastin2]

There was a scum inventor in the last game anyway, IIRC.

Pretty sure there was. I thought yesterday that with the reduction to three, all inventors might be town, but it may be possible that with Bins flipping her role that there's a scum one again.

you call the 6 votes on me rvs?

No, I call the six votes on you (almost, maybe entirely) all town.

look at how fast sonic and hiplop got

Yes, let's.

The Sonic Boom wagon had a steady build--though some of it was RVS, it held a strong earlygame presence, built gradually.

The hiplop wagon formed basically overnight. (The Bins wagon by your own admittance never grew as much.)

/60.

[mastin2]

has mastin explained her supertown read on me yet?

No, but it's not D3 yet.

(Also, Tere is seriously town.)

It's happening!
VOTE: Sonic Boom

^For the record, I think that hiplop's town (very, very strongly as of 1634 too), and with Bins being town, that means that the scum didn't care which of them would get lynched.

However

,

this

wagon DIDN'T rise up, and that has me thinking scum *did* care about it.

Also, 1604 looks town.
Flubber's sorta kinda scum, and I THINK Kari could be. (Not absolutely sure.)

/D1. (68.)

[mastin2]

IF there is an inventor in this game giving out doc shots, the person you gave your shot to is either bad, scum, or had something interfere with their action.

Bins being vulnerable actually isn't a big surprise. I mean, if I was a protective-type role, I'd give my protection out to a large townread like, say, LC, rather than on someone under heavy suspicion. The mafia kill them, fine, they don't, also fine.

[mastin2]

ftr: Bins neighborized us last night
Coincidentally we got a weak cop invention last night. That would be a game winning combination
Good thing our cop target was town! Otherwise we would be in shite
shakira confirmed town

Did I vote Sonic Boom?

I'm pretty sure I voted Sonic Boom.

This post would make me vote them alone, though!

(Also, Ank is town.)

[mastin2]

Sthar go screw

What about Jingle going to SKrew himself?

Does anyone see any flaws with this logic right now?

I think there's a big flaw with any planned coordinated actions, but I'm not absolutely sure (I haven't run my head through the math yet) and even if I was I'm not sure there would be a way for me to properly verbalize it in a manner that wouldn't potentially be anti-town to say out loud. It's also kinda late (1:30 and counting), so that means my mind's not exactly up to the task; I think that basically the best course of action is for inventors to target whoever they think best to target and those who receive it should target whoever they think to be the best target (if applicable) of their invention, and if this happens to overlap with a stated plan during the day that's fine, but if not, that's also fine. People still get to be held accountable regardless the way I figure it, but this is just my mental math.

Tinfoil hat theory. Mastin is intentionally being bad so that no one trusts what she says so everyone avoids voting with her so she can vote for her scum buddies which ironically projects them.

Well then, that's all the more reason to vote with me, then! (1761 is a valid point, too. I'm willing to bet you're not a Sonic scumbuddy given your treatment of them.)

Also, the hiplop wagon was bad yesterday and is worse today.

/71. Might call it quits soon.

[mastin2]

Only got ten minutes, so we'll see what I can get.

Flubber's scum, for a start. His page 72 posting makes that clear by itself.

Kari at this point is just becoming a scumread by default too. That'd make a team look something like Sonic Boom, Flubber, Kari, and one more yet to be determined, but I can tell you rather a number of people it wouldn't be.

Under no circumstances do we want the commute inventor to claim.

Precisely, because--being unable to self-target--they're not exactly going to be a Bulletproof Doctor.

I find it unlikely a commuter could both commute and investigate someone.

I'm pretty sure Anti said that you could use all inventions at once. I'll check in a bit. The question's more on whether with it being a commute, if the weak cop would work. (Which, admittedly, I don't know about.)

yeah, this wagon grew insanely fast with no resistance at all whatsoever. Not a good sign.

True, and I'll need to check for a full list of members later, but Tere is certainly not a name on there that I'd call scum. (That'd more be like Sonic Boom.)

/72, and out of time. Sorry.

[mastin2]

hiplop - 5 (Tere, vezokpiraka, Sonic Boom, ZZZX, Flubbernugget)
Sonic Boom - 2 (hiplop, mastin2)

Someone voted Tere for opportunism I think it was?

Well, they should look here.

Tere was the

first

vote.

Sonic Boom the

third

vote. (Imagine that!)

And Flubber! Flubber, there, is the FIFTH vote on hiplop.

You want opportunism, you've got it right there. That wagon also hopped up in an incredibly short timeframe, too. Tere, first vote, at Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:13 am, in post 1767. Flubbers vote? Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:43 am, in post 1776. That's a five-man wagon, in 3.5 hours and 9 posts. Not a chance in HELL that's towndriven.

[mastin2]

Jaqen is town as fuck. Almost conftown.

Eh, I'd say that's a bit of a stretch, but yes, Jaqen is in fact pretty dang town.

We just get the commute each night, and check whoever.

Yeah, the commute-inventor would have to be a real idiot to give YOU the commute.

Titus, I'm rather disappointed that you still don't know how I operate as scum.

(Psst. She's scum. She's [probably] not going to scumread the majority of her scumteam, so she's [probably] going to need to fake scumreads

somewhere

, and you're it*.)

*(Did I mention Ank is town?)

[mastin2]

One thing good coming from a bad Bins wagon is that a man is pretty sure all (with exception to hiplop since Bins was his counterwagon) on the Bins wagon are probtown because scum aren't wanting to be on or Bins would have been mislynched.

wut

Eh, I think it possible a scum is on there, but I see Jaqen's logic. Especially given the names. LC's not scum, I'm not scum, Jaqen's not scum, and hiplop's not scum. The only possible scum there is Wicked, and I don't really think he's scum. (Granted, I don't particularly think he's town, either, but that's beside the fact.)

The only thing that sort of bugs me about it is Mastin may be town if Cat is scum and I really hope her to be scum.

'Course I'm town. There's basically no scenario in which I'm not, especially when it comes to Lying Cat interactions for ~reasons~. (Incidentally, LC is as I said very likely town, soyeah.)

The commute inventor gives it to their choice every night, unless cop inventor claims, in which case they target them. As for the cop, my thought is this. We cop you tonight. We cop whoever cops you tonight tomorrow. Etc. If someone in the chain flips town, we've got a bunch of conftown. Person who cops #3 or 4 should be a strong townread of cop inventor.
And the massive flow of associative tells without flips is hilarious.

Sounds 'bout right to me. Small question, though. If an inventor gets the weak cop invention and fears their target is scum, do they deviate from the chain or risk their life?

[mastin2]

vezok/lying cat/ sonic scumteam

Sure thing!

So lynch the Sonic first.

Also, I thought of a strategy we could use to help with results:

Before night, everyone posts this:
"If I were to receive the weak cop, my target would be X", where X is a player that they decide on (if two players die, then we have a 50/50 shot at getting scum);
After each night, they post, "If I was the recipient of the weak cop, my target would have been Y" (Y may or may not be the same as X).

Does anyone see a flaw in that idea?

[mastin2]

(Also, Flubber continues to be hilariously scum with posts like 1888.)

Also, gut says Cerb's town, soyeah.

LC, why didn't the commute inventor gift bins, since bins claimed a day power which wouldn't be affected by commuting, and hhad a decent chance of being the first nk? Can you think of town motivations?

Dozens of motivations in fact, but listing so much as one would be anti-town.

I personally think SB might be scum, but I'm more than willing to let the cop sort them out.

If we get universal agreement that the recipient of the cop do so, short of the recipient being an inventor (because in my opinion, if an inventor gets the weak cop investigation, it'd be a bad idea to investigate near-certain scum), then yes I can agree with this. Otherwise, I figure just save the investigator's life and lynch them today, start a new chain tomorrow. (Ideally, the chain involves players that are decently likely to be town yet aren't going to get nightkilled. If someone is a scummy scumbutt, bad idea for them to be part of it, which is why the person who gave Sonic Boom of all people the invention has my deep ire.)

If you're voting sonic boom you need to explain why lc's weak cop idea is shit

I have concerns about it. If/when they're addressed then I'll change my vote. (To you in all likelihood, of course.)

/77.

[mastin2]

How do you reconcile the implication that this wagon is on town with the fact that it could have easily and reasonable been pushed into a lynch, yet wasn't? All 4 scum were already on the wagon? 3 and the one left didn't want to associate? 2? 1?

Because Sabotage Mafia called; it wants its D1 back. Same situation here. Or if you'd prefer, Signs and Void's D1's second half (CDB and Esp). Titus if she were town would have realized this already.

I'm getting close to caught up, but when I'm caught up, I still have work to do.

I want hiplop dead. It would solve so many interactions.

This argument will never, EVER hold weight unless the person making it backs it up with hard, HARD links on a large number of players for

both

alignments.

For instance, how a hiplop townflip means Sonic's scum thanks to their wagon falling apart when the wagons on Bins and hiplop did not.

[mastin2]

Lynch hiplop. Lynch Jaquen. Lynch Mastina. Lynch Cerb. That should end the game or be damn close.

Yep! Sure would!

I mean, with that many

mislynches

, it'd be hard for the scum

not

to end the game in victory!

Bins - 5 (Lying Cat, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar,

Wickedestjr

, hiplop)
hiplop - 8 (vezokpiraka, ZZZX,

Flubbernugget, Sonic Boom

, Tere, Ankamius, Bins, Cerberus v666)
Shakira Confirmed - 1 (Mac)
Sonic Boom - 1 (Shakira Confirmed)
Not Voting: ika, Kari

So you think there are at least two scum on the hiplop wagon. No scum on the bins wagon and two scum in {SC, Mac, ika,

kari

}

Yep! Pretty much.

I mean, it's theoretically

possible

for there to be a scum on Bins, it's just not particularly probable. There's a minimum of two scum on hiplop, chance of more. (My reads on basically everyone there except Tere and Ankamius aren't very strong.) Shakira's probably conftown in spite of Sonic Boom being scum (I don't think they'd lie about their target/result given that Titus likes to gambit with as much truth as she can, and Sonic might do the same if not for that reason than for his petrifying fear of trackers/watchers/jkers/rbers all of which are possible for the town to have depending on the third inventor), and I'm still saying Mac's town. But that's a very solid pool we've got there with the bolded. Fits nicely.

[mastin2]

Mastin, I would be fine with a flubber lynch.

Like I said, I'll move there if LC's plan is valid and the cop targets them tonight.

[mastin2]

Scum see that town want to target scum. Block the scum. Magic presto confirmed scum as town.

Weak cop != hider. If the cop gets no result back, then we've got good reason to scumread the person the no result is on.

You should know this, given that, y'know. YOU HAD THE POWER LAST NIGHT.

(Did I mention Sonic Boom is scum?)

[mastin2]

Town Mastina investigates, you haven't investigated at all?

I've been doing nothing BUT investigating.

Everything says the same thing: that you're scum.

So let me ask you, what do you think of the scenario

when

I flip town?

Well if you flip town, I go mope in a corner, go home, rethink my life, try to reconcile it, drown my sorrows, throw out all my reads, start from scratch, and figure out where I went horribly, horribly wrong. (Probably not in that order.)

Fortunately, that won't be a problem since you'll be flipping scum.

[mastin2]

No one should know WHO is getting the cop. We should all know who is being checked.

And nobody would.

My plan wasn't, "If I were the cop inventor, I'd give my invention to X."
My plan is, "If I were to receive the cop invention, I'd target X."

Assuming everyone did so before going into night, then if two people died, we have the proof we need of one scum. (Or a reasonably good guess at least.)

[mastin2]

So your plan just narrows down the cop inventor every time someone claims they got a cop inventor.
Don't think so.

Says the person who, by claiming they got the cop invention, narrowed down the list of people who could be the cop inventor.

My plan isn't to go, "Hey, I got the cop invention, and I targeted X" either.
My plan is, BEFORE THE NIGHT HAS BEGUN, "Hey, if I were to receive the cop invention, I'd target X."
They die, then we've got a guilty.
They live, sure, them claiming will narrow down who the cop inventor is, but every. plan. suggested. today. is doing nothing different. If anything, my plan is helping to OBSCURE who the cop inventor is.

[mastin2]

I think the only person taking you seriously right now it Lying Cat? If you were town, wouldn't you care no one is listening to you and you'd change your strategy?

To the contrary. Tere is to some extent listening. Jaqen most definitely is. Lying Cat, too. That's three of eight just right then and there. I've been appealing to you by pointing out how you keep saying Sonic Boom is scum and that's the slot I most want dead now, which would be four of eight. Half-way there. Ankamius may be receptive, and I've appealed to him. If I were to get him, that'd be five. Hiplop has a vested interest in helping me. Six.

The frustrating thing is getting the last two, since...
-Vezok's not cooperating (though may not be town),
-ZX's not cooperating,
-Sonic/Flubber are definitely scum,
-Kari is probably scum,
-Mac and Wicked are both frustratingly inactive but I'm not going to go screaming, "HEY, COME POST HERE AND HELP!",
-And Cerberus is just doing his own thing. (Ika is an automatic ninth, so really all I need is one more. Which I've been trying to get.)

The votes aren't there yet, but I'm trying to get them there. The only question is whether they'd be on Sonic or on Flubber. My preference being on Sonic.

I've done PLENTY to get people to follow me. Literally everything I've been saying, all the evidence I've been saying, all the "psst, that's because they're scum", the VCA, everything in my iso, is to that purpose.

[mastin2]

Didn't she say she does this as town in one of her wallposts? Working with the town or something?

Yep! Which is why I'm doing a rather

excellent

job of working with the town players. Just not quiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite there yet in getting them all together. But I'm working on it!

[mastin2]

Actually, Wicked might be the fourth, though that'd be a minor Flubber bus if so.

[mastin2]

(2000, mainly, being the post. But not sure. Just my best guess right now. See if you can figure out why. This one, I'll admit,

is

a no-exposition read, but that's because I mainly am not sure if it'd be a good idea to point out what the potential tip-off was. It's the kind of thing where I want to be wrong, but I'm kinda afraid that I'm right.)

[mastin2]

Pedit: what is my own thing that I'm doing?

If I remember correctly, you're basically doing a bunch of random stuff, but while it looks fairly town and I think it's driven by town, I don't see it actually going anywhere. I could be remembering wrong (mainly, if you're voting one of Sonic/Flubber, that's what you need to be doing), but that's what I was more or less referring to.

Like a me, that's not being focused, I'd say. Kinda hard to put into words.

[mastin2]

mastin2 - 3 (Wickedestjr, hiplop, Gorkington)
Shakira Confirmed - 4 (Flames682, vezokpiraka, ZZZX, Mac)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Shakira Confirmed, Flubbernugget)
Not Voting: Cerberus v666, ika, Jaqen Hghar, Lying Cat, Tere

Note these wagons here. RVS, right? Well...

Shakira Confirmed - 5 (Flames682, vezokpiraka, ZZZX, Mac, Flubbernugget)
Sonic Boom - 2 (mastin2, Gorkington)
Not Voting: Cerberus v666, ika, Jaqen Hghar, Lying Cat, Tere

Flubber's switch from Sonic Boom to Shakira says otherwise.

Mac - 3 (Shakira Confirmed, Flubbernugget, Sonic Boom)
Shakira Confirmed - 3 (Flames682, vezokpiraka, Mac)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Bins, Ankamius)
Not Voting: Cerberus v666, Lying Cat, Tere

And here is where things begin to get serious. The Mac wagon forms (again with Flubber on it, I would remind you), the Shakira wagon is on its way out, and the Sonic Boom wagon has become a notable wagon again.

Cerberus v666 - 3 (ZZZX, Sonic Boom, Lying Cat)
Shakira Confirmed - 3 (Flames682, vezokpiraka, Mac)
Sonic Boom - 4 (mastin2, Bins, Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed)
Not Voting: Cerberus v666, ika, Tere

And grows with Shakira joining. (The Cerberus wagon doesn't exactly look good for Sonic Boom for the record, but I don't hold it against them particularly. It is noteworthy, though.)

Cerberus v666 - 3 (ZZZX, Sonic Boom, Lying Cat)
Shakira Confirmed - 3 (Flames682, vezokpiraka, Mac)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed)
Not Voting: Bins, Cerberus v666, ika

...Yet we lose traction here. Admittedly, though,

Cerberus v666 - 3 (Lying Cat, Sonic Boom, Flubbernugget)
Sonic Boom - 4 (mastin2, Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed, Tere)
Not Voting: Bins, Cerberus v666, ika

Tere joins the wagon in Bins's place.

Between that votecount (Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:55 am, post 735, with the actual vote obviously being some time earlier), and the next jump of votes,

Sonic Boom - 6 (mastin2, Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed, Tere, Jaqen Hghar, hiplop)
Not Voting: Bins, Cerberus v666, ika, Kari, vezokpiraka

...Here, we have Jaqen's 823 vote at Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:49 am, and hiplop's 826 vote at Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:21 pm. While that is a jump in votes by two, in a narrow window, the gap between 826 and Wednesday at 12:21, to Tuesday June 2nd at 755 AM in 735, is a rather notable gap, especially early in the game.

The Sonic Boom wagon was thus, gradually, built throughout the early phase of the game. Exactly what you would expect on scum. And it lasts to the next votecount, too...but then it falls apart. In its place?

Bins - 3 (Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)
Cerberus v666 - 1 (Flubbernugget)
hiplop - 3 (Sonic Boom, vezokpiraka, Mac)
Sonic Boom - 4 (mastin2, Ankamius, hiplop, Sharkira Confirmed)
vezokpiraka - 1 (ZZZX)
Not Voting: Bins, Cerberus v666, ika, Kari, Tere

Bins - 3 (Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)
hiplop - 5 (Sonic Boom, vezokpiraka, Mac, Tere, ZZZX)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Ankamius, Sharkira Confirmed)
Not Voting: Bins, Cerberus v666, ika, Kari

BOTH the Bins AND hiplop wagons.

In which, we get the downward spiral.

Bins - 3 (Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)
hiplop - 7 (Sonic Boom, vezokpiraka, Mac, Tere, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Cerberus v666)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Ankamius, Sharkira Confirmed)
Not Voting: Bins, ika, Kari

Bins - 3 (Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)
hiplop - 7 (Sonic Boom, vezokpiraka, Mac, Tere, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Cerberus v666)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Ankamius, Sharkira Confirmed)
Not Voting: Bins, ika, Kari

(First hiplop wagon peak.)

Bins - 2 (Jaqen Hghar, Lying Cat)
hiplop - 6 (vezokpiraka, Tere, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Cerberus v666, Sonic Boom)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed)
Not Voting: ika, Kari, Wickedestjr

(Mini-peak.)

hiplop - 5 (vezokpiraka, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Cerberus v666, Shakira Confirmed)
Sonic Boom - 3 (mastin2, Ankamius, Tere)
Not Voting: ika, Kari, Wickedestjr

(Tere attempts to make a Sonic Boom wagon.)

Bins - 4 (Lying Cat, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr)
hiplop - 6 (vezokpiraka, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Cerberus v666, Shakira Confirmed, Sonic Boom)
Sonic Boom - 2 (Ankamius, Tere)

(Yet here it is, dead again. Back to hiplop and Bins.)

Bins - 5 (Lying Cat, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, Cerberus v666)
hiplop - 5 (vezokpiraka, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Sonic Boom, Tere)
Sonic Boom - 2 (Ankamius, Shakira Confirmed)

(Again, an attempt is made on Sonic Boom. Yet the wagon doesn't hold, while the Bins and hiplop wagons both do.)

Bins - 5 (Lying Cat, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, hiplop)
hiplop - 8 (vezokpiraka, ZZZX, Flubbernugget, Sonic Boom, Tere, Ankamius, Bins, Cerberus v666)
Sonic Boom - 1 (Shakira Confirmed)

...Note how at day's end, the Sonic Boom wagon has all-but faded, yet the Bins wagon is still there, and the hiplop wagon is still there.

The hiplop wagon and the Bins wagon both cropped up in response to the Sonic Boom wagon, replacing it. Both of them wavered a bit, yet always remained strong, whereas the Sonic Boom wagon which once held such great momentum has basically vanished. In both votecounts today, it's been hiplop with a ton of votes, Sonic Boom with a paltry few.

Sonic Boom is scum.

[mastin2]

So the Bins counter wagon to Sonic Boom means Sonic is more likely scum?

No.

Bins being town, and hiplop almost certainly being town, means that with both the replacement wagons to Sonic Boom being on town, that Sonic Boom is scum.

Speaking of which, another thing which made me think they're scum. If they were town, I would expect Sonic active in the earlygame and Titus active in the lategame, because that's their specialties: Metal Sonic is a better early town player, Titus a better late town player.

But as scum, that's reversed. Titus's charade falls apart as scum the later you go into the game and the more cracks you begin to see, whereas Metal Sonic is able to spread more and more mist as the game continues rather than less and less. Guess which activity pattern they're closer to this game? I'll give you a hint:

titus is handling everything well

(This is not the first time Sonic has said this. It's at least the second, if not third, fourth, fifth, or more. At least once on D1 too.)

[mastin2]

There won't be any sonic boom wagons while I'm alive.
Anyone who wants to vote sonic boom instead of hiplop is downright mental.

Sonic Boom - 4 (hiplop, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar, Shakira Confirmed)
WTF is this wagon?

(It's proof that

you

are the one mental, not me.)

@Mastin if there was something I can cooperate with I would have but I dont see anything. Hm?

My point exactly.

Mastina, you use a lot of words to try and justify your vote park but the "wagon" on us has been fueled by voteparking.

No, it's been fueled by people actively pushing you as scum, and continuing to push you as scum in the majority of their posts.

You're pretending or deluding yourself that a vote in RVS somehow makes us a wagon that is viable.

But I demonstrated that the wagon on you

wasn't

RVS. It was anything but. The wagon on you, the six votes, were all serious.

You have completely managed to dodge my question about what you would think if we were town.

Nope! Answered already.

Well if you flip town, I go mope in a corner, go home, rethink my life, try to reconcile it, drown my sorrows, throw out all my reads, start from scratch, and figure out where I went horribly, horribly wrong. (Probably not in that order.)
Fortunately, that won't be a problem since you'll be flipping scum.

You asked, you got your answer. I can't give you a better answer than that because it doesn't exist because I'm not going to go deal with a situation I frankly think is never going to happen.

You are trying to chainsaw the Hiplop wagon.

Yep! Blatantly!

Find his posts, why is Hiplop town?

Don't need to, he's just...really not scum. Like, his posting lacks scum motivation, entirely. It's devoid of scum drive. Scummy, sure, yes, I know his posting

looks

bad. But scum, no, everything (especially wagon speed and composition and general circumstances surrounding him) says that he's town.

[mastin2]

Hiplop should be today's lynch. Not checking them.

And yet if you checked hiplop,
-If he was scum by your "Bins if alive outs" plan he'd get lynched,
-If he was town then you shut down the mislynch on him,
-Plus you're objecting to the logic of people pushing YOU as a lynch when you're lined up as the investigation meaning you're invoking a double-standard.

This is why I really don't want to have Sonic Boom be checked. They're scum, so having them be checked will just waste a night, lose us a town player, and give us nothing we don't already know. (Because regardless of Sonic Boom's alignment, Shakira Confirmed is pretty much town anyway.)

[mastin2]

ok I just double checked the hood pt.
Bins was townreading you, yes. but we pushed to cop you
PLUS, she wanted you to be "conftown" so that we could have a "party" in the hood

Like.

This is classic revisionistic history. They're molding the neighborhood PT talk to be whatever's the most convenient for their stances at the moment, blatantly flaunting their flagrant contradictions all over.

[mastin2]

I obviously prefer my own plan. If anyone has a different plan, say something now, but we most definitely need to come to a consensus, before the night phase. And there is none of this follow both plans shite, because that will help narrow down the cop inventor more than anything else.

If it were anyone other than

Sonic Boom

to be targeted, then I would, absolutely, without a moment's hesitation, follow your plan. It

is

a good plan.

It's just that I really don't like the idea of wasting a night by targeting them, which'll break the chain, prevent us from lynching one scum today just to delay it for tomorrow, basically making us start from scratch and delay having anything useful. With the idea of targeting Sonic Boom and following the plan, I'm not exactly thrilled about the concept, but I will agree to it if the majority of the town comes to a consensus to follow it. (At which point, I'll switch my vote.)

[mastin2]

Hey! Mastin! SMITE Mafia.

Oh, you mean the game where the entirety of the third page of my iso is calling town town and calling 2/3 of the scum scum? Where I had vast reservations about the serial killer? Where I developed a groundbreaking plan which was one night short of outing the third scum? (Because if I had lived with my Esp guilty and Drixx didn't shoot, bam, I out everything and powerlynch him.)

That SMITE mafia?

Yeah, you're not gonna be able to use that game to shame me.

I told you then, I'll say it again. I'll accept the shortcomings there. (That being, I defended Drixx longer than I should have for the sake of the plan, mainly. And that I didn't push my scumreads harder and defend my townreads on TSO, Heartless, and such more.) I will not let you walk over me.

[mastin2]

Hey! Mastin! SMITE Mafia. Shut the

FUCK

up.
~Sonic

I'd also like to point out that (1) Sonic is contradicting himself at best here by saying this (in that it means he's read my posts when he earlier claimed he hadn't, when not reading my posts is a nice convenient excuse to dismiss my valid points), or at worst being strategic in what he chooses to read (in that when I make a strong point he'll post "Not reading Mastin's posts" and whenever I make a weaker point that's easier to counter, suddenly, he ~magically~ has read them), and (2) is saying I'm town here whereas he's been previously posting as if I were scum.

[mastin2]

Can you rephrase that?

My point was that I've been trying to gather allies, but some players I just can't do so with. You are one of them, because you're certainly not helping with Sonic Boom and it sounds like you're probably not willing to help with Flubber, either.

(Speaking of which: if my plan is followed, my target would be Ankamius for a bundleload of reasons not particularly hard to guess.)

[mastin2]

@Wicked: Your reads are all over the place. Why do you have sonic only as a leaning town when both me and ZZZX said he's town? And why don't you have any scum reads?
This feels like a bad readlist.

Yep! Similar thing is how Mac's a strong townread yet I can only see that coming from me thanks to Mac's recent inactivity, yet I am still in the unsorted pile.

Right now, he's my best guess for fourth scum.

[mastin2]

Don't ever accuse anyone of lying about access. It is very unethical and I am not evaluating that.

On this point, I can agree.

I mean, for me, entirely separate of this, ika's been every so

slightly

on the scum side of null for most of the game, but I refuse to believe he would lie; if he says he wasn't around, then regardless of whether he was town or scum, he wasn't around.

@mastin can you name your four explicitly for me?

Sonic Boom, strongest scumread.
Flubber, literally right behind them, pretty much tied. (Seriously, read his posts on page 86. They're all so...

bad

.)
At a distant third place is my growing scumread on Wicked, yet it's a molehill compared to the twin peaks (or should I say triple given the hydra?) above.
The fourth is just my best guess right now, being Kari. I could see it as someone else, it's just that that's what makes the most sense to me.

[mastin2]

Hey, LC. Know how you and I have kinda been buddy-buddy so far in the game? How you've been the most obvtown, threatening-to-scum-in-all-likelihood player?

Sorry. You just got demoted.

town who has no real intentions of reading the game.
TSO, who should I vote?

Here, let me give you the steps to the game.

1. Know you are town.
   
2. Know that we have already figured out you are town.
   
3. Know I am town.
   
4. Know Sonic Boom (and Flubber) are scum.
   
5. Read my iso.
   
6. Vote for Sonic Boom (or alternatively, Flubber).
   
7. If you are uncertain, read again.
   
8. If you still can't see any of the above, read LC's iso. It might be slightly longer or shorter, but still doable.
   
9. If all else fails, trudge through the much longer iso of Sonic Boom. (Or the needs-every-detail-read-to-see-the-scum iso of Flubber.)

You won't regret it.

[mastin2]

(Not necessarily in that order, but you get the idea. Applies to TSO, too.)

[mastin2]

If there's no interest, then I'll happily switch to hiplop, but I think this is much better.

Right, I should talk about this.

Nacho, TSO, you absolutely CANNOT join the hiplop wagon. He's the scum's designated mislynch for today. Basically the only resistance is me + LC, and the wagon is there with incredible ease and speed. If you're too lazy to read my iso, if it's too much for you, then take at least that much away from me here now, please. If you join the hiplop wagon, he will get lynched, and he will flip town.

[mastin2]

Mastin was also certain Bins was scum even after she claimed a power role,

Point of clarity, I didn't see Bins's claim. If I

had

, I wouldn't have believed it, mind you, because the way she went about doing so was not how an inventor would go about it, and that's the only role that I would have believed her to be softclaiming. So you're not exactly wrong, but you're also not right.

Also, I wasn't certain Bins was scum. In fact, Bins was my compromise-wagon. I did a check of my iso yesterday to confirm as much, and, yep. I voted her because there was greater support for her lynch than there was for a Sonic Boom lynch, but Sonic Boom was my preference. So I wasn't sure she was scum. I thought she was scum, yes, but I wasn't

certain

she was; it was mainly stuff from her predecessor (that being, posting which looked like what I'd do as scum) and her own play being what I saw as not being town and eventually VERY dodgy. Which it was. She was being vague, she was being fairly elusive. A little bit near the beginning of the game is all good and fine; it makes for some excellent 'crumbing. A lot of it near the END OF THE DAY, not so much. Of course I scumread her; that's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do as a PR.

she was certain I was scum for reasons she never actually said except for quoting a couple posts made by others saying "That's a good point." or "I agree".

Also wrong on both points. I wasn't sure you were scum and was debating it. I thought at least one of {You, Sonic} was scum, but I wasn't absolutely sure, and of the two of you, Sonic was a much stronger read. I also did plenty of reasoning as to why; it's literally strewn across my iso in everything I said. At the beginning, said things were vague, with me only hinting at it. (E.g. "scum bussing" had a reason why I thought your post was bussing Sonic Boom, but it was more I thought you were scum and Sonic was scum rather than that the post itself was scum-bussing post, though I don't remember what it was which made me conclude that.) But they progressively got more and more detailed as I began messing around less and less, taking the game more seriously.

Sonic said, "I have a meta scum read on Marq." and Mastin responded by saying, "That's a good point, I didn't think of that."

Not exactly. Sonic provided a reason for Marquis to be scum, using a game I was a part of. The point, therefore, was valid in my eyes: "He posted like this when scum, and is doing it again". Thus, yeah, it was a good point (albeit wrong), which I hadn't thought of but which was true (albeit wrong) all the same.

I bring this up because Mastin's last post looks incredibly manipulative, and not even close to the whole story.

Pot, kettle, black.

You might be town but that doesn't mean you're not being manipulative.

[mastin2]

I'll just assume you don't have any reasons for now.

Oh, he has a BUNDLELOAD of reasons for me to be town.

Can you expand on that for me?

Yes he can (and so could I), no he won't (because no duh); the equation doesn't change. There's many reasons why I am town, and explaining the majority of them would be anti-town.

Yeah we're uninformed masons and i'm pretty sure she is too.

Sorry, but I'm pretty new at this so I don't know if this is a joke or not.

If you can't tell the difference, then it doesn't matter if there is a difference; the end result is the same. LC's town, and so am I. The how is irrelevant.

I think scum would be best copying Mastin if she's town.

And who, other than LC (in which it'd be impossible to say either of us are copying the other because we're both doing it to the other to the point where it's mutual synchronization), could that possibly be?

...My point exactly. Nobody's scum copying my reads. That means scum are defying my reads, ergo, I'm onto them. I might not have all of them. But I'm bound to have at least one or two. Especially the one.

If he's the scum designated mislynch, which members of that wagon are scum Mastin?

Sonic Boom, THE driving force behind the lynch. Nobody else cares to have hiplop dead more than they do.

Flubbernugget, the opportunistic wagon-hopper who is there because he can get away with it.

And Wicked, who did a good job of obfuscating himself yesterday, but his stances today have made it progressively more and more obvious that he is scum.

And that's just the people I've got a firm scumread on. Kari's not even a strong fourth; I could be wrong about her. It could be someone like vezok.

So damn right hiplop's the scum-designated mislynch.

Who else, other than Sonic Boom, has been wagoned today?

...My point exactly. There is nobody. No-one. Other than hiplop. No pressure elsewhere. No strong push. If hiplop were scum, you'd expect two or even three counterwagons to crop up. Nothing. The Sonic Boom push has been hard-pressed to get further than it has, in contrast to the hiplop wagon which continues to gain support. That's because nobody cares if hiplop dies, yet the scum are doing their damnedest to save Sonic Boom.

It was that way yesterday, too. Sonic Boom was the first major wagon of the game. The replacement wagons for Sonic Boom were Bins (which we know to be town) and hiplop (who I am certain is town). No other wagons formed. Yet there's a key difference. When the Sonic Boom wagon fell apart, several different wagons attempted to crop up...exactly as you would expect from a wagon on scum falling apart. The Bins wagon falling apart never produced a series of counterwagons, nor did the hiplop wagon ever fade. That's because they were both on town, scum didn't care to save them, and thus no strong wagons formed other than them.

[mastin2]

Can't say I remember Flubber doing much pushing though.

Pushing, no, but being obvscum, yes. Aside from his horribad posting, there's also the sheer, blatant, OPPORTUNISM present in his iso. After I'm caught up, I'll show you why. But basically, Flubber has been on essentially every single major wagon, right as it was gaining traction, and left, right after it has lost it. So in this case, it's the LACK of a push that's the problem. Everything from leaving Sonic Boom to voting Shakira (Shakira wagon had a fair amount of support, I think around four or five) to the absolutely horrendously bad Mac vote (Flubber was the fourth) and all that just in his early iso. Cerberus vote when there's a Cerberus wagon...it goes on and on. His "reasoning" isn't really reasoning at all. It's just excuses to go here, excuses to join there.

[mastin2]

The resistance to a hiplop wagon is unreal

What

resistance? Mine? LC's? That's about it. All I see is more and more people voting hiplop mindlessly, half effectively just because he wasn't lynched yesterday.

And Esp called.

He wants his Signs and Void almost-mislynch back.

That's right, I went there, hiplop is this game's Espeonage: someone who looks like scum, almost got lynched, continues to be under suspicion, but. isn't. actually. scum.

[mastin2]

I think wicked, kari, mastin and flubber are scummy with no correlation to the hiplop flip. .

So...you

agree

with me that 3/4 of the people I suspect look bad...and you have me as the fourth?



And it isn't at all alarming to you that half the people there are pushing hiplop? (With the third absent from the game but expressing interest in voting there too.)

[mastin2]

@Town- I feel like a lot of my posts have been ignored, I would appreciate if this one could be read carefully.

Wicked's frustration seems pretty solidly town, even still lacking context.

What frustration?

I don't see any from Wicked.

From Jaqen, sure, yeah, I see plenty, but from Wicked, I see none.

[mastin2]

(For that matter, I see an extreme LACK of frustration from both Titus AND Metal Sonic. If they were town I'd expect them to be

furious

at me, but instead, they're ignoring me, bashing me, saying I am weaker than I am, just to mitigate my presence, just so that my voice has less impact than it by all rights should.)

[mastin2]

What is your case for hiplop-town?

I don't need a case for hiplop being town. Frankly I don't really have one minus the circumstances around him. But he WILL be flipping town, so he WILL be a mislynch, and frankly if you decide that reading the game is a worthy endeavor, then you'd agree with me. Maybe you don't need to read. Maybe you just need to see how the pressure on hiplop keeps building the way it does. The point is, I don't need to tell you that hiplop's town. It's evident enough. What I DO need to tell you is to not impulsively VOTE him before you see this, because you

are

prone to it, and you

would

regret it down the line.

In short? Hiplop being town will come to you without me saying anything. You just need to not vote him before then, because if you do, then he'll end up dead. You've seen how little resistance the wagon has, you've seen how much it's growing. So you know I'm not lying when I say that your vote will push it over the edge. Which is why I'm begging you not to make it.

[mastin2]

read his ISO.

Feel free to! Because it is painfully,

painfully

obvious that hiplop entirely lacks a scum motivation in his posting. Yes they look, objectively, bad. Yes he looks scummy. But where's the intent? Where's the motivation? What is the driving force behind his posting?

There's literally nothing there that, even remotely, so much as hints at him being scum. Everything there is just town, albeit town that is playing in a not-exactly-stellar way.

[mastin2]

vezokpiraka - Near global town read I think?

Has been dangerously close to falling below the null line for me basically the entire game.

Aristophanes - Mac didn't really do anything other than scum it up in the first few posts.

Town it up, actually.

Lying Cat - Lots of people are scum reading them, myself included.

And yet, they are town which I have been pushing since D1.

Flubbernugget - He went on the hiplop wagon pretty early yesterday too.

Not really. He went onto the wagon, but it wasn't exactly early; he did so

right

as it was beginning to gain movement.

I just know we

already have

with boom and flubber. I'd be fine with either of their heads, and thats why I'm lacking in things to say!

...Okay.
So I

suppose

there

is

one player that has sheeped my reads and in theory COULD be scum buddying me, and that player's hiplop.

But, well, y'know. He's the mislynch and I've been his strongest defender, so it makes sense his alignment regardless. Point still stands, though. Scum not sheeping me = scum are fighting me = I am on the right track.

[mastin2]

I've done no such thing.

I've said that explaining why I am

town

would be anti-town.
But I've done PLENTY to explain my thoughts.

Speaking of thoughts, I should update them on my plan, the one that is the alternative to LC's.

If I had any power short of vig, including the weak cop, my target would be Nacho, because NACHO.

[mastin2]

^And people wonder why I townread hiplop.

That

, m'friends, is why.

[mastin2]

I believe the plan is for the cop inventor to not claim until tomorrow at the earliest, though I don't remember the reasoning as to why.

Personally, though, I think that the cop inventor should only claim if they think their life is in danger be it lynch or nightkill, or they have information to reveal to the town. That'd allow the commute inventor free range of movement to continue protecting players likely to be nightkilled, rather than being locked on one player.

[mastin2]

So I'll continue from the top of page 93, but basically, if you read my blog, you'd know why today has been not exactly fun for me and why I'm not exactly feeling up to playing. (What's not on the blog though is follow-through; I stated the problem chewing symptom and my parents instantly declared it a sinus infection. Still going to the doctor tomorrow to get a professional second opinion, but they're probably right. And frankly, given what bad things can come from an earache, a sinus infection is a fairly benign thing to have in comparison.)

[mastin2]

Still need to read 93-95. Doctors

say

it's Swimmer's Ear, not sure they're right, but we'll see; they gave me medication and I'm taking it, and I'm due for another dose fairly soon. (4 times a day is a pain. In the ears moreso. Especially with the obligatory waiting 5 minutes on my side bit.) So far still not feeling better, but at least I'm not feeling worse?

[mastin2]

Mastin the thing about hiplop is that the original reason for scum reading him didnt go away. Did everyone's reasoning mean nothing to you?

Oh, it sure did!

It meant that hiplop was town because there really

wasn't

one!

[mastin2]

Mastina, that is the biggest wall of woah is me, ever. Your argument is also circular. You're griping that no one is following you because it is scum resistance. Then you argue because of scum resistance no one is sheeping you.

And the same cant be said for you in regards to me?

(And, again, this is why hiplop is town.)

[mastin2]

VOTE: flubber
there, then. Everyone agrees this guy is scum. Lets just end this shit

I'll vote there if I can get more support there than on Sonic.

(For that matter, I see an extreme LACK of frustration from both Titus AND Metal Sonic. If they were town I'd expect them to be

furious

at me, but instead, they're ignoring me, bashing me, saying I am weaker than I am, just to mitigate my presence, just so that my voice has less impact than it by all rights should.)

you are a bit delusional

Oh, those posts? You mean those posts where you deride my talent, try to lessen my voice, effectively silencing me? Where you are basically trying to make me feel bad about myself, by pointing out my past failures? That?

Yeah, that's not frustration. That's derision.

Yo Mastina, reads if we're town. It will save you time to do it now.

This is again a scum tactic. This is the third time you've said this, yet my answer hasn't changed.

[mastin2]

Wickedest, I care about finding scum. I just know we

already have

with boom and flubber. I'd be fine with either of their heads, and thats why I'm lacking in things to say!

You know that Flubber is scum? Interesting because four days ago you said;

Mastin, I would be fine with a flubber lynch. I dont think ANYONE sees him as town

which is a much weaker stance. You never said what bothered you in-between. You've pretty much ignored him for the whole game, besides repeating that you suspect him. If you have such a strong scum read on him, you should explain why. Simply voting for him does nothing to make me think you're town - it does, however, increase my suspicion that you and Flubber are partners.

Oh, Flubber's certainly partners with

someone

, but that someone aint hiplop; it's

you

.

This is basically an entirely BS reason for joining the hiplop wagon, and if anyone is displaying this sort of behavior, it's Wicked, not hiplop.

[mastin2]

Pictured here:wickedest trying to fabricate something incrediblyntiny into something larger, while also defending pressure off of flubber
I think we're dealing with a flubber/wicked team. (Maybe sonic? Less sure there)

Like, seriously, this is town.

[mastin2]

Caught scum's best position is to either a) not give reasons at all or b) make the reasons so complex no one gets them.

Huh. Funny. Guess who I think is doing this against hiplop?

[mastin2]

moonshine? how much of a redneck do you think i am?

Uhh...don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to?

A man is reading and is asking a yet unanswered question because of that blog...

What question would that be?

Wicked is wicked good at finding slips....
....I'll see myself out

I don't really like this cheerleading post at all.

Vote: Flubbernugget

Screw it, it has Nacho's backing and I'm pretty sure it'd get LC's backing, too.

I don't need anyone else yet I'd probably get them, too.
VOTE: Flubbernugget.

[mastin2]

Which is actually surprising coming from you.

(Psst...that's because they're scum.)

[mastin2]

I'm active town, and willing to vote things, we just have lots of time to do so. As I said before, I'm quite content with either a hiplop or flubber lynch today, but I suppose a hiplop lynch does more for town, as I said before.

Vote: hiplop

Active with lots of time to vote things is mutually exclusive with a hiplop vote.

[mastin2]

at first i was scared of being scumread for doing this
then i realized im scumread all the time so it doesnt matter
VOTE: hiplop
i know this aint hammer
if hiplop flips scum,im going after mastin.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, Kari cements her spot as the fourth.

[mastin2]

im town.
scum team is boom/flubber/vezok/????

If one of Kari/Wicked somehow isn't scum, then Vezok is. But basically, this, yeah.

[mastin2]

I'm pretty pissed about that L-1 and hammer, it would have been lovely to have been given the opportunity to do something.

(Psst. That's why it has scum motivation. The scumteam's most likely targeting you for the nightkill to silence you before you get a chance to do stuff like confirm me as town.)

[mastin2]

Super interesting how fast that happened, from stable at six to lynch in 2 hours? I understand that I'm one of those last 3 votes, but nobody voted(or really did anything) for quite some time, and boom, lynch. I guess we'll figure out more when we see if we made a mistake or not.

THIS IS WHY.
I TOLD NACHO NOT TO VOTE HIPLOP.

You weren't the target audience, but you should have listened all the same.

I knew

damn

good and well what would happen with so much as one extra vote.

But on the bright side, at least we've got confirmation that Kari's scum beyond simple POE.

[mastin2]

I'm starting to think that I was wrong about Cerberus... He makes a lot of sense as Flubber's partner.
*fingers crossed*

This is scum, setting up the next mislynch, because he KNOWS that the lynch was on town.

VOTE: Wickedestjr.

Flubber's his partner, too.

And Kari.

Fourth I'd say maybe vezok.

(As for Sonic Boom...well we can do this the mature adults way or the "you were wrong" "no, YOU were wrong" way which leads to an auto-ignore on both ends. Your call on which, Titus/Sonic, but personally the former seems a lot better an option for having no drama and keeping things on point and civilized.)

[mastin2]

pedit the invention I received

Btw, just sayin', I sincerely doubt the aforementioned invention would be the commute, so with the weak cop claimed, Shakira's the only confirmed town player to know what the third invention is. (There would be two total if the inventor is themselves town, but if the inventor is scum, then Shakira is the only one that's claimed what it is so I'm basically making an assumption here that Shakira's the only town player to have received it.) That doesn't elevate them in importance READS-wise (because frankly if they were a threat reads-wise they'd be dead under the pretext of killing conftown. No offense, Shakira, but you know it's true), but it puts them on a VERY high pedestal importance-wise in having an influence as far as I'm concerned. So they're now a one-two punch of (1) conftown, and (2) town who knows the third invention.

[mastin2]

Incidentally, I'll need to take a look at ZX's iso when I get the chance.

[mastin2]

hiplop - 9 (vezokpiraka, Flubbernugget, Sonic Boom, Shakira Confirmed, ZZZX, Wickedestjr, Cerberus v666, Kari, ika)

Titus.

Your thing is VCA, right?

So tell me.

How many scum on here? None? Heck no, despite some similarities, this game has ventured past the point where it'd be Organic Chemistry.
One? Two? Three? All Four?

I might not be right about it being all four. But I look at that wagon, and know what I see? That you're there, Shakira's there, ZX is there, and Cerberus is there as town, but I would literally vote for anyone else there. That ika--who's still on the wrong side of null--is the one I

least

want to lynch (because he will lynch someone at L-1 automatically his alignment regardless) should say something about Vezok, Flubber, Wicked, and Kari.

I maintain that it was a scumdriven lynch.
Yeah I know that it's unlikely all four are on, unless they went reverse-Organic Chemistry. (Which I could totally see them doing btw.) But bluntly, I don't see myself realistically ever voting a name outside the hiplop wagon until we've got at least two scum dead from it. I absolutely REFUSE to believe there were less than that there.

[mastin2]

Assuming Sonic is town than I've gotten 3 for 4 reads correct, which is more than you so far.

What, by one? I townread hiplop, VERY strongly, so strongly that bluntly that read should count for at least two if not three reads. I townread Cerberus. Assuming LC is town (which is a safe assumption), that's at least a third.

*computer spits out "Too early to compute"*

Alright, here's a computation for you. Instead of showing you the names on the wagon, let's show you the names off!

Cerberus v666 - 1 (T S O)
Flubbernugget - 2 (hiplop, Nachomamma8)
ika - 1 (Lying Cat)
Sonic Boom - 2 (mastin2, Jaqen Hghar)

Not Voting: Aristophanes

TSO hasn't done anything town, so admittedly that's a bit of a concern, but Ankamius was very, very much town.
Hiplop is confirmed town.
Tere was very, very, VERY town, one of my strongest townreads consistently, and Nacho has not only done nothing to decrease that read, but a ton to INCREASE it.
Lying Cat is as good as conftown to me right now because, bluntly, if LC was scum, then I would be dead right now, yet here I am.

That basically only leaves as, even THEORETICALLY, Jaqen and Aristophanes. Both of which I have a townread on, strong for Aristophanes and weak on Jaqen.

Mastin, what are you seeing which a man is missing in Wicked?

An extreme lack of town motivation and fairly obvious scum motive.

[mastin2]

I’m convinced you aren’t even reading my posts. Because nothing I accused hiplop of applies to me.

Yes, it did. Your stance on hiplop, at the time of the vote, was much stronger than earlier in the day. (As shown by such various factors as your vote having been on Jaqen over hiplop.)

Read the reason why I was starting to doubt Cerberus - it’s largely based on him looking like Flubber’s partner.

Yes, just like your reason for scumreading hiplop was at least partially if not largely based off of him looking like Flubber's partner. (Or maybe that was Jaqen? Maybe it was both. Point remains, though....) Yet in spite of that,

you never voted for Flubber

, which is

especially

egregious because there was interest in a wagon on him.

So I repeat.

It's scum setting up a mislynch, who's been foiled by Cerb being the one getting the invention and thus being untouchable. If he didn't, you'd be gunning after him today.

I made my effort to read you. In fact I originally had you as town. Yet nothing you've done. Has actually shown a town drive.

[mastin2]

You know what, I think it's time.
VOTE: Mastin

Good luck with that.

So far sc and lc have been gifted commutes?

If SC claims to have gotten the commute, then innocent from Cerb be damned, I'd power-lynch them. And then probably Cerb after that just to be sure he wouldn't be scum covering for a buddy.

Not a chance in hell the commuter gave the commute to Sonic Boom, the. freakin. target. of the cop investigation.

[mastin2]

Derp.
I read SC as SB.

...Point still stands though, albeit of a lesser strength; I would not believe SC claiming to receive the commute, even though that would require an SC/SB/Cerb scumteam.

[mastin2]

So, three inventors. One weak cop, one commute, one unknown. ZZZX's death combined with his town read on the recipient of the weak cop N1 increases the likelihood that the weak cop is indeed coming from town.

No argument here.

Is there any reason scum would give an invention to someone who is/was likely to be conftown?

Simple: the towncred it would give them. I believe the scum inventor last game did so once or twice in an attempt to save themselves. (It didn't work.) That being said, too early to say for certain whether the third's town or scum. My opinion would frankly depend on who the third is. (That said, even if it turns out to be someone I'm convinced is scum, they'd still be off the lynching table because forced optimal town usage of their role > chance they're scum.)

Now, the commute.

Frankly, the commuter is obvtown, giving to players likely to be nightkilled. LC was the target D1, and the target for D2 would probably be someone like, say, Nacho. They're going to be using it as a doc protect, so no, not scum.

I feel like a scum inventor is likely.

It's possible. Really depends, though. If we have any town power outside the inventors aside from Bins, it's a near-certainty. If all we have are Bins + the inventors, then frankly we need all three inventors to have anything resembling a chance against the scum. Since now would very obviously be a Very Bad Time for any existing PRs outside inventors to claim, though, that's something we're not gonna deal with. At least not now.

I think the recipient of the commute should claim it every day, but I'm not positive that there's anything good for town in doing that.

Since the commute power is known, I don't think it's as important as the third invention in regards to claiming. The third power, unless SC tells us differently, could be from scum. The commute, rather obviously, is not.

[mastin2]

2. If Lying Cat is scum and you are town there is not a chance in hell he'd kill you.

No, if Lying Cat were scum, I am the ONLY player he would nightkill N2.

I'm still here, ergo, LC is town.

Also, thanks to the commute inventor.

VOTE: Shakira Confirmed.

[mastin2]

VOTE: Mastina
I can do this. Sonic needs to see Mastina's scum.

I repeat: good luck with that.

[mastin2]

You make a lot of leaps and conclusions here.

Nope, not really!

[mastin2]

(Okay, maybe I am with regards to my scumreads, but with regards to the inventors, no.)

[mastin2]

I don't care what results there are on you.
You claim to get the commute invent, then you'll lose a 1v1 against me.

[mastin2]

*Rather, claim to have gotten it either T1 or T2. (Whenever the exact timing of inventions are received.)

But,

Unvote

.
Let's get this very clear.
Did you, or did you not, receive a commute, on N1?
Did you, or did you not, receive a commute, on N2?

[mastin2]

Shakira Confirmed:

Let's get this very clear.

Did you, or did you not, receive a commute, on N1?
Did you, or did you not, receive a commute, on N2?

I don't care whether it's

Fluminator

or

Marquis

.
Clear answer. Now.

[mastin2]

Lying Cat is as good as conftown to me right now because, bluntly, if LC was scum, then I would be dead right now, yet here I am.

Why is this true?

Because there is a very specific dynamic between LC and I that you don't get, and frankly it's better off that you don't know about it.

[mastin2]

i don't know if he was trying to pull a gambit or something but we didn't get a commute

Okay then.

Proceed as normal.

VOTE: Wickedestjr.

i'm fairly sure the commute inventor is scum though setupwise and choice-of-target-wise tho lol

Because a town having no protective power is totally a good idea, and the commuter giving it out to likely nightkill targets is totally a scum-motivated move.

[mastin2]

but not impossible, or even unlikely with a

weak cop INVENTION

around

Weak cop inventor INCREASES the need for the commuter to be town, not DECREASES. If the commute inventor wasn't town, then (1) the results from the weak cop would be borderline useless, nullifying THE ENTIRETY OF THE TOWN'S POWER, and (2) without a breaking strategy being made (which Antihero, I imagine, would try his hardest to prevent), it would be fully possible for the town to lose a BUNCH of town players to unclaimed investigations. As in, a bunch of players investigate scum, without claiming their target in advance, because they don't KNOW about the power in advance, and die as a result, in addition to the scum nightkill. That didn't happen this game, but it was something that COULD have happened and it's ridiculous to think that Anti wouldn't be aware of it.

1) and yet not actual nightkill targets so this is kind of fallacious by the odds

There are dozens of reasons why the commute inventor wouldn't gift to Bins, and you'd have to be INSANE to think that the commute inventor would EVER have gifted to ZZZX.

So not stopping the nightkills is entirely reasonable. Give it time; sooner or later, the commute inventor is going to get it right.

The commute inventor is town.

[mastin2]

a commute inventor has massive utility for scum

(1) so much utility that IT'D OVERPOWER THE SCUM, (2) they wouldn't target town (and yet LC claimed it D2) as to remain anonymous, (3) and would take as many steps as needed to make sure the power was secretive, (4) SPECIFICALLY TO MESS WITH INVESTIGATIONS LIKE THE WEAK COP.

Flaunting it out by giving it to likely nightkill targets?

Again. Not scum.

[mastin2]

Back on page 103.
Just here to say, if you're following my blog, you'd know why I'm saying...hold, please.
Technical difficulties on my end = I'm not playing today. (Like, right now I'm doing something very, very sketchy and basically relying on Opera's

built-in blocker

because adblock and adblock plus are both not working. But I needed to say so on-site since nobody here actually READS my blog, soyeah.)

[mastin2]

Might as well post here, too.
No, no posting today.
Yes, I'll post tomorrow. Problem got fixed, should have the time, and I'll be back in the game.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

[mastin2]

Vote: Aristophanes

How do I explain my feelings there in a way that'll make sense?

Hmm...

I'm not sure there's a way to convey the message to you, Nacho. Let me try though.
This isn't Steak Sauce. This is Squirtle. So please don't vote Aristophanes?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ika

Could lynch that.

Certainly wouldn't be my first choice and I'm not particularly thinking he's scum, but I could lynch that.

I think it's worth noting how little traction there was with regards to Flubber's lynch despite him being a near-universal scumread.

Yep.

If someone starts a wagon there, I'll not only join but spearhead it.

[mastin2]

Wait, I'm not sure it was Squirtle.
It was a pokemon, but dangit, can't remember which one now.
So the reference I'm trying to make might be lost on you. (Not that you were in the second game, though you were in the first so might know what I mean by Steak Sauce.)

[mastin2]

Vote: ika

Aristo, any thoughts?

Though bluntly, this makes me more receptive to the idea of voting Aristo and less receptive to the idea of voting ika by sheer virtue of it being

Wicked

who's doing this.

[mastin2]

Also, the game would be pretty broken if both the commuter and cop are town.

The game would be broken if the commuter was scum, as has been discussed. Seriously. This is a 17-player game with four scum. That is scumsided by itself; town needs some serious power to counter it, and giving the town the weak cop and the commute is the perfect way to get that, because they both have a built-in double-edged sword: the commuter can't be investigated, and the weak cop if getting a guilty will die, reducing the number of town players at a potentially-rapid rate, especially since the weak cop won't know to announce who they're targeting in advance because they won't know they're going to receive it.

Maybe the scum have a power role like rolecop or roleblocker, but frankly they don't need one.

Towns need roles to win games, especially in scum-heavy games.

Anti's smart enough to know this.

[mastin2]

The thing which makes me wary is that people are wagoning ika, but not even mentioning kari. This is highly suspect.

And I know I'm not right on all four of my candidates because I kinda doubt vezok-Kari makes this (very, very legitimate) point.

But I'm not sure where else I'd go.

Wicked and Flubber are basically my strong two. Then there's Kari as a middle-read. Vezok's weak, and ika's in reserve. I want to focus on those five, even though I'm not sure I can see any team combo which involves four of them that's plausible, if that makes sense.

[mastin2]

but her scumgame - i haven't seen it in play that i remember, but i know it's fairly good
and her whole earlygame obnoxiousness wrt that
actually fuck it never mind she can stay in null/nulltown, her talking about scum nightkill motivations and being kind of obvwrong and also just the massive amts of diff/wrong make me... not exactly "okay" with her being town, just. don't think i'll want that lynch for a good while.

You know I probably

should

be insulted by this, but the egotistical narcissist in me is thanking you for the compliment about my scumgame.

I mean, I should

probably

lie and tell you that I'm not REALLY that good, but to be fair, I probably actually am and you're right, I totally could pull it off as scum.

...Still town, though.

VOTE: aristophanes

Aaaaaaaand...any and all motivation to join the Aristophanes wagon evaporates. Just like that.

[mastin2]

tempted to vote mastin out of spite. thinks they're the god of mafia or some bs like that

You'd be surprised how far off that is from the truth.

Yep, pretty much. I mean, I can get fairly good reads at times, but I'm only occasionally good. I'm ~feeling it~ this game, not so much in regards to scumreads anymore, but in regards to my townreads. Basically, I don't think I'm right on all five of my suspects (I can't be; one has to be town by the setup), and probably aren't even right on four of them, because while they each individually make sense as scum, I'm not seeing much of a scumteam, aside from Wicked and Flubber.

Yet what I DO think is that my town POE holds fairly solid. It's not absolute, yet it has a very strong basis. For instance, LC being conftown to me, and the probability that Nacho is town. (We'll see, though. Basically, there's something that if it happens, Nacho's probably scum, and I'll tell you about it if it happens. Until then I'm going on faith that he's town.) Things like that.

Each game is different, sometimes I get both sometimes neither, this game being POE rather than scumhunting.

[mastin2]

I'm fairly sure mastin knows what she's doing here. LC might too, but I feel a lot better about mastin than I do about LC, to be honest.

I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, too, but I'm not infallible.

That being said

, still insisting LC's town. Again, I'd be dead otherwise.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you were saying that at your prime, you managed to lynch a mason as scum?

I have no memory of this.

Pretty sure though that I bragged I COULD. (Which, to be fair, I probably could, and still can. I mean, I lynched Mac when he was borderline conftown, and it's not too hard to lynch a cop inno when scum, you just have to be creative about how you go about manipulating people's paranoia to your favor. A process, though, best left unsaid in a game where...well, y'know. We have cop investigations. I'll tell you if I see a player I think is using this, though*!)

*Jaqen, who I think you're trying to make a point about, doesn't count.
Know what Jaqen is?
Jaqen is PV to Molla.

He's town, not scum, he's just helping scum.

[mastin2]

if he's helping scum, why should we keep him alive?

Because town players are town players, regardless of how much you want them to not be, and thus lynching them is bad.

Yeah, Kari's scum.

[mastin2]

Lynch who you like, but when Sonic is fooling you in end game, just remember- I told you so.

Oh believe me, I've not

entirely

let Sonic Boom off the hook. I just think it infinitely more likely that they're town than "Cerb is scum covering for Sonic", "Cerb is town and Sonic is a godfather", or "Cerb is town and there's a scum busdriver" and the like. They're not impossible, but they are extraordinarily improbable.

I'll be using my best judgment for as long as I live, and my best judgment tells me they're town.

[mastin2]

I'm not sure what we're waiting for. Hip fucking lop flipped fucking town. Fuck

No

shit

he flipped town.

That's what you get for ignoring me and/or calling me scum for it.

Reason I said we could do things the mature adult way or the "You were wrong", "No you were wrong!" way.

The mature adult way is considering the options, which mind you I have been.

I'm not sure all four scum are in these four names. But I think that at least 3 are in {Wicked, Flubbernugget, Kari, ika, vezokpiraka}. You want me outside there, it's gonna take some very heavy convincing.

[mastin2]

I am willing to vote Kari, LC, or Flubber.

Well, 2/3 aint bad. (LC is town. Seriously, trust me. This is a beyond-hiplop level of read and I was right on hiplop.)

If we investigate you tonight one of us dies and then we lynch you. I'm not okay with that. That's why I want you dead today.

Hmm...this seems strangely familiar...

OH YEAH.

WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I WAS SAYING THIS?!?

(Yeah. Not lynching Cerb.)

[mastin2]

That's what you get for ignoring me and/or calling me scum for it.

Genuine question. Are you trying to be as aggravating as possible?

No, but I am

extremely

bitter about that lynch.

I was saying, ever since D1, that hiplop was town.
Very, very strongly saying it.
Raising some fairly decent arguments for it, too.
Hiplop could literally not have been more obvtown than he was.

And after he DID get lynched, Sonic just goes and says, effectively, "Well, not MY fault hiplop somehow wasn't scum!", completely avoiding the responsibility when YES IT FREAKING WAS HIS FAULT.

Which is why I was so ticked off. Instead of accepting he was wrong and moving on, he just brushed it off. When in contrast, I've been here, fully willing to admit that yes I was wrong and that I was trying to move on.

Reason that I kinda want Jaqen to be right about them being scum, role clear be damned.

[mastin2]

Ika is probably town, but there is one case I can see where he is scum. That would requite the Commuter being town and other things though.

The commuter is town.

I'll probably check Mastin if we get the cop tonight and I encourage others to do the same. I'm almost at the point where I don't care if I'm wrong about Mastin.

Problem with this, though, is that you're already conftown. You're in the chain already, via Sonic Boom's original investigation. The cop inventor handing the weak cop to you would, effectively, be abandoning the current chain to start a new one, in which case we'd be required to lynch Cerberus to confirm the old chain.

I'm presuming you (and the weak cop inventor) don't want that, so the only way I'm getting cop investigated is if the weak cop inventor hands the investigation to me, I live through the night, claim my result on Cerb (likely an innocent), and the next cop inventor target then is free to check me.

/Gonna maybe watch Terminator4 right now, so this is where I'll have to stop for the moment. (Depends on the pricing of the film I guess.)

[mastin2]

VOTE: kari

Vote: Kari

Vezok's presence makes me a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit uneasy, but sure.

Vote: Kari

.

Still would prefer Wicked, though.

don't care if we do kari or this
but we should do one

Well I'm saying not Aristophanes, so.

/117.

[mastin2]

LC has been a POE-scumread for a while now.

@nacho, mastin
This doesn't jive with 'maybe a lurker, but lets give them some more time.'

Well I have a scumread on Wicked, so no argument here!

/117. (I meant to type ONTO 117 last time. This is finishing it.)

[mastin2]

Ahh yes, I remember you defending him quite clearly since the start.

I didn't say since the start.

I said ever since D1.

And that's true.
Every post that you selectively did NOT quote was me defending him. Even as he was that far down in the readslist pretty much, he was not my focus. Quite the opposite in fact.

Who cares about following a chain.

Oh, you know, just about THE ENTIRE TOWN who agreed to the plan yesterday?

/118.

[mastin2]

I miss your old avatar Ika.

Eh, I find his current avatar appropriate.

lc: if mastin is town shouldn't there be other town tells than the one secret tell you could use to explain that they're town to us?

Sure thing!

I'm not LC, but I can give you this.

Here, for your reading pleasure, might as well quote this.

I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.

Actually...I have.

I've been meaning to post it, too. It's about a year out of date, though, but I started compiling a way around Mafia with the Quickness 2 called, "How to read Mastin: the flowchart".

Spoiler: Stuff about it

The flowchart, while half a year old in its latest version, still applies more than it doesn't, by the way.
I'll condense it down for you, though:
If Mastin is scum, accept the loss; she's going to win regardless of what you do. So treat her like town.
If Mastin is town, then she is town. Treat her as town. If she wants to be listened to, listen to her and trust her instincts. If she doesn't tell you to listen to her, take her words with a grain of salt; they're reads but not solid ones.
BAM.
You now know how to treat Mastin.
Will work out for you nearly every single game.

Summary. I think I realized my problem with Mastin. Her reads are changing very quickly and they're moving on a very, very wide scale.

Helpful hint, you have absolutely no reason to trust me on this right now, but this is a MASSIVE towntell for me. On the "how to read Mastin: the flowchart" I made (I need to track down the most up-to-date version), it's one of the primary items, in fact. The reason? Town Mastin doesn't have a clue what's going on. Her reads are in a state of constant flux, specifically because of that, and her own self-doubt, paranoia, and whatnot betrays her, as she constantly second-guesses herself and reevaluates, rethinks, and redoes stuff. In contrast, scuMastin has absolute control of the game. Whereas town-Mastin is defined by inconsistency, scuMastin is defined by consistent, solid, controlled, calculated play. She keeps the same reads as much as possible, because it serves to antagonize the least number of players. She is calm, collected, and cool. She is strategic. She is focused. Her thoughts are logical and precise, because she has a good handle on the game, and thus, her mind does not betray her.

Or in short, the difference between town and scum is the difference between chaos and order. Now, obviously, this isn't absolute. There have been towngames where I've felt in control, rare as they may be. There have been scumgames where I was chaotic, either by circumstances or in one or two cases me faking my town chaos convincingly. But it IS a fairly solid general guideline. I know what I'm doing as scum; I'm just taking my best guess and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks as town.

I bet she has quite a few "playstyles" (and she knows, I think, why I'm saying this.)

Indeed I do. Fairly certain I said so already in this game, too, the reason why: because my play in games is fluid, thanks to situational awareness. While I might not know what's going on as town, I can generally feel out the game and have an idea for what will work best, adapting to have a playstyle specific to that game. It's mildly helpful, since it lets me hone in on scum better, but situational awareness mostly helps me as scum, because as scum, adapting my play to the game when I have more info than my town self does is

lethally

effective.

Though that does remind me, I need a point in there about focusing on scumhunting.

I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.

Right, that's another one I need to add in.

How To Read Mastin

:

Are you zMuffinman?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you AngryPidgeon?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you a player who has hydraed or has otherwise worked well with Mastin?

Yes-->You likely don't need the chart, but because you're not that familiar with her, you should probably go through it anyway as a precaution.
No-->You REALLY need to go through the chart; proceed! But fair warning in advance that it's only about 90% accurate.

Is/Are zMuffinman/AP in the game?

Yes-->Sheep them on their read! Never doubt it.
No-->Think like them and continue on.

THE FLOWCHART:

Is it D1?
Yes-->...And you're suspicious of Mastin?!?
She's town.
No-->Is it D2? Yes-->She's prob-town.
No-->Is it D3 or later? Yes-->Proceed.

Does Mastin look town?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed to next step.

Trust her as town.

What does she do?

Get paranoid of you-->She's town.
Enthusiastically work with you-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Nothing-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Milk your townread and bully you-->Proceed.

Suddenly pressure her.

What does she do?

Freak out-->She's town.
Show concern, but subdued-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Brush it off-->Proceed.

Is she posting up a storm?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she gloating how good her scumgame is?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does Mastin have delusions of grandeur?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she waffling...
...A lot?

Yes-->She's town.
Sorta?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does she look like she's trying to leave a legacy?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she antagonizing everyone?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Has Mastin rambled at all on MD theory?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making a case for why she could be scum?
Yes-->She's town.
Kinda?-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making very strong reasons why she's town?
No-->She's town.
Kinda-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

If applicable, did she 'crumb her role and/or claim it openly and immediately?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Do the circumstances behind her play and/or claim look town?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she irrational?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she spewing random illogical theories?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does her posting look intentional?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed.

Is she spontaneous, random, and/or whimsical?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is her tone flat?

No-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

(BONUS:

If Mastin is behind, does she demonstrate knowledge of the

current

gamestate she could not reasonably have at her supposed point of reference?

No-->She's town.
It's hard to say...-->She probably does know, but not much, having likely skimmed offline, not logged in, and chose not to get the full context to spoiler her as probable-town.
Yes-->Proceed.)

And finally...

Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

Yes-->She's town; defend her!
...Maybe?-->You've gotten this far and the best you've got is a "maybe"?!? You dummy, run through it again! (But she's probably town anyway.)-->All other factors equal, if you're having this much trouble reading Mastin, just freakin' assume she's town. (She likely is, anyway.)-->FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, SHE'S TOWN, DANG IT.
No-->She's probably scum...but you should run through the flowchart one more time just to be sure, as a precaution.

Is Mastin's posting wildly inconsistent?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
No-->Proceed.)

(Oh, and I think rambling in-thread's already there*, but if not, it should be.)
*Relies on scum having daychat. Scum have daychat, in-thread rambling = decent towntell. Scum don't have daychat, rambling = prob-null, maybe slight townlean. Scum daychat ambiguous, assume slight townlean.

(Oh, should be noted. Last scum, rambling in-thread gets upgraded to major towntell, since scuMastin typically keeps rambles to the scum QT about why she's screwed.)

Totally should just, in general, take this policy about me.
There's a flowchart that I plan to publish that will give better tells for reading me in general, some of which are timeless, others which are in contemporary site meta, but valuable all the same. Until it's actually published, though, the general policy I have on reading me is, increasingly, becoming:

Just assume I'm town until you have a REALLY solid reason not to. You'll be right the VAST majority of the time, by sheer probability alone.

(In fact, beyond probability. Probability says I should be scum a minimum of 25% of the time. 2014's been something like half that overall.)

It'll save you a BUNDLELOADS of headaches.

(Should be noted that my record was 34 games IN A ROW as town and my scumgame remains STILL below statistical probability in numbers.)

"If you're townreading Mastin, lynch her. She's scum, having successfully predicted your movements and is manipulating you. You fell into her trap, hook, line, and sinker.
If you're scumreading Mastin, she's town; save her from the lynch. She's probably either really onto something or really lost. In either case, she needs your help, either to sheep her or help her develop more accurate reads."

Some of them are out of date thanks to contextual meta shifts, but most of them still apply.

(Note of course that the flowchart is never 100% accurate. It's impossible, literally impossible, to display all of them in a single game since many of them are in fact slightly contradictory, but the point is to see as many as possible and if the majority matches town or scum. This chart has been in play for quite a while, now, and to this date, in spite of no active attempts to uphold it and some attempts as scum to subvert it, remains highly relevant to my play. It goes to prove my point, though: scuMastin always has this laser-like focus. Anything Goes in particular, until I faked having my confidence shattered, I was pushing for a specific lynch. In games like Resistance where I was the last living scum in lylo, I wove a narrative specific to one player being scum because I held focus. In my entire scumgame career, holding focus has done nothing but serve me well. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. Because guess what? People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a lynch. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to mislynch anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. So damn fucking straight. Maybe someday I'll flail as scum. It could in theory be this game. But in practice? Fuck no. As scum I'd push a lynch through; as town, here I am without a clue.)

(I really need to also add a section in there about explicitly blowing up. I don't think I've ever thrown f-bombs around as scum freely, aside from some trolling in L4D when I literally claimed scum in-thread once I realized Molla had a guilty on me. As town, you'll note, I go absolutely ballistic, and for damn fucking good reason. Lynching me has never done a town favors, ESPECIALLY not in the lategame.)

I still don't see the reasonng behind the commuter being town

Aside from me saying so, there's the fact that the commuter hilariously overpowers the scumteam, yet a town withOUT the commuter is hilariously UNDERPOWERED, ergo, the commuter is town.

[mastin2]

VOTE: Ari
Yeah, Kari's not on the lynchable list.

[mastin2]

Mastin: your setup spec could be wrong, stop it.

Could be wrong, yes.

Is likely to be wrong, HECK no.

Especially given that I'm ME. You might not know this, but setups are just kinda what I DO. I might not do consistent gamebreaking with them, but I hold a scarily good grasp on them the VAST majority of the time, and am on the Normal Review Group for good reason--I have an eye for knowing balance and more than that, I also have been in a fair number of Antihero games. So while I'm not infallible, I'm reasonably reliable, so I can say these things with a good degree of certainty.

You don't even know the alignment of any of the inventors.

Again, 13v4 games generally are going to be incredibly scumsided unless you beef the town up with some serious power. Weak cop + commute are perfect for that, giving defensive and investigative powers which feature a double-sworded edge.

WDPT

You mean the game I only started playing heavily during, what, lylo?
Of course I'm not going to be accurate in a game I haven't played in.

But in a game where I've been in there from the start, I'm going to have a much firmer grasp on things.

Work from the world you know, the world as it is, not the world as you imagine it is.

The world as I know is that the commuter is giving the commute to probable nightkill targets, and thus is town.

I didn't read your flow chart. Does it say you are town?

Essentially?

Yes.

Go read it yourself. It's pretty dang accurate. Not foolproof, but a solid guide to reading/interacting with me. A roadmap to the way my mind works as town and as scum, as it were.

Are you still saying Mac is 100% town? Now might be a good idea to say why if he is.

There were actually two reasons. I want to hold off on one for as long as humanly possible (even though the longer I hold off on it the more infuriating it's going to be), the other I want to hold off on until tomorrow at the earliest. (A while back, I read my own iso and I said D4 originally, not D3. Plus our D2 was effectively an extended D1 anyway, soyeah. Not today, tomorrow, for that one.)

/120.

[mastin2]

Unvote. Vote: Kari

(L-2) which might as well be L-1
Claim time.

Goddammit.

Kari's town, isn't she?

VOTE: Wicked.

There's still time to do this.

I'm not voting for ika--he could be scum, he could be town, I'm not making the call either way.
I'm not voting for Aristophanes--he is town.
And now I really, really don't want to vote for Kari, either.

I'm not sure who the scum are.

But dammit. Wicked's one of them, and this was NOT a bus-vote.
So Kari is town, Wicked's not.

And yes I'm aware there's an incoming deadline. Like I said, Wicked's scum.
I could maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayybe vote for Flubber, but while Flubber's probscum, he's not defscum.

Wicked just...everything about him SCREAMS scum.

[mastin2]

Still would prefer Wicked, though.

I still don't really see what I'm missing in Wicked.

I'm not sure how you

can't

see it there.

It's just...there's no town motivation there at all. His posting's strategic, precise. Opportunistic. I'm not really sure how I can describe it. It's just...really not town. I don't see genuine thoughts at all. All I see is just...scum.

[mastin2]

The lynches I would endorse today are Kari, Ari, Vezok, and you with you and vezok far behind the first two.

Vezok right now is pretty much on the same tier as ika, btw. He could be town, he could be scum, I really can't tell right now, but I'd massively, MASSIVELY prefer to lynch someone who's without a doubt scum, and that person's Wicked.

(And Cerb's off-limits, too. Leave him for the weak cop tonight.)

[mastin2]

Mastin: Woah! Hey Bro. That's awesome we're scum together. Cat: No way. That's awesome. We're going to win this. Mastin: You want to do something crazy that will go down in the history books?!! Cat: What??? Mastin: Let's blatantly buddy up to each other in a way so obvious and form a town bloc based off [redacted]. After that, we'll dominate the conversation and buddy the heck out of people who have similar reads to us, and attack the credibility of everyone who disagrees with our reads.

Meh.
Been there, done that.

"...Huh?"

Yeah, I did

that exact thing

(almost down to the exact dialog) in my first extremely-infamous scumgame, Anything Goes. I basically went, quite literally, "Nice! We're scum together! That's awesome. I've got this radical idea: how about this game, we form a townbloc made exclusively out of scum? That is, every single member of the townbloc is scum, allowing us to dominate the game. Nobody would suspect it because nobody does that these days!"

I mean, circumstances dictated that it didn't

quite

work out to plan (our entire scumteam was called out by AFB, and me as the last scum got called scum correctly by a living lylo player Brian Skies for having townread every single scum name after they had died and we still lived), but ultimately we DID end up winning anyway.

Incidentally, I also basically managed it in Attack on Titan, albeit not winning the game. (That game was a solid game by both factions, so I'm

proud

I lost to that town. We didn't lose because we were weak, we lost because we were strong yet the town was

slightly

stronger, in particular having one lategame replacement who ended up being the one who most decisively called the otherwise-widely-townread scum to be correctly scum.) All three scum lead wagons D1 prior to my entrance-->"Screw this, we're going to have to work as a team to win this game"-->we did-->we put up a solid fight and ALMOST won. (Shame the rollback ate it.)

Generally as scum, I never utilize the same strategy twice. I might use something similar, but one of the things about my scumgame is that it's so. dang. GOOD. that one of the reasons I deliberately change it is simply for the challenge to make things interesting. I've developed a full repertoire of Boring But Practical scum moves, yet they simply don't appeal to me anymore because of that, and excessive buddying is exactly that. (Generally nowadays my scumbuddies will be in various middle spots in my reads, never too high and never too low, because I find I have the most flexibility that way.)

[mastin2]

3. Mastin is town for a different reason than I am. Though we

are

uninformed masons. I uninformed mazonized nacho's slot last night too, I'll choose TSO tonight.

Nacho, please tell me if this is true. You haven't commented on it.

Fluminator.
Let me be the first to say.

You are an

idiot

.

What if both flip town again??

This is basically what I'm thinking, now. We're having a BinsVhiplop situation again; neither candidate is scum. (Or, if you prefer, Snowstorm vs. PeregrineV in comparison to AA9 vs pidgey vs displaced in Sabotage; townVtown on a later day compared to townVtownVtown on D1, which is what Sonic Boom vs. Bins vs. hiplop was.)

So if Kari flips town, you'll drop your suspicion on Wicked? I'd make a town case on him if I thought it would help, but.

I'm assuming you meant Kari flipping scum here, but no. It doesn't look like a bus, but it

could

be one. I don't think it is one, but Kari flipping scum wouldn't clear Wicked. Why? Because the vote itself was the problem. I'm not sure how to explain that. Basically...Wicked's vote looked like scum, period. It looked a lot more like scum voting town than scum voting scum, but scum bussing's not impossible. It just doesn't look town.

[mastin2]

I’ve already explained why this is wrong, you ignored me.

No, I accurately pointed out no sane doctor (which the commute inventor serves as) would EVER have protected ZZZX (one nightkill), and there are DOZENS of reasons why the commute inventor wouldn't have protected Bins (among them being: not townreading her, not seeing her claim, not thinking she would be nightkilled, thinking someone else--Lying Cat--was far better a target, etc.), the other nightkill. We have a sample size of two. In short, just because the commute-inventor hasn't stopped a nightkill yet doesn't mean they won't. Sure, doc saves in games are pretty dang rare thanks to sheer probability and the doctor not being in the know, but if the doc lives long enough, then it's BOUND to happen sooner or later.

You have played with me more than any other player on this site. You should know that this is how I

always

post.

No, it's different. Your posting is...ahck. The words aren't forming in my mind. The thought is there, but I'm struggling to get it out. It's different. I'm having trouble describing why it's different, but it is, and you insisting it isn't is part of why you're scum.

All my other votes have been attempts to start bandwagons or compromise votes for Bins/Kari because nobody would follow me on the other votes.

It's simple flow prediction. You've been going where you've predicted the flow would go, early on. That's the way I can best describe it. Sometimes, it's wrong, and you end up being the only one there (like voting Flubber), sometimes, it's right. But that doesn't change that it's still opportunism all the same. You don't have to be near the end of a wagon to be opportunistic. You don't even have to have much of a wagon at all to be opportunistic. The important thing about opportunism is sensing a weakness, latching onto it, and getting in while the going's good. Precise movements, well-executed, but still scum-driven.

If you were town, then you should have a slight reservation in your mind (I know because I’m playing exactly how I always play).

I have. For most of the game, I've been saying, "Wicked's probably scum, but I'm not sure". Basically scattered throughout my iso, it's there. That sensation that you are scum, but not very strongly so. Yet it's continued to grow as your scumplay has progressively more and more shown. The more scum things you've been doing, the more you've been making it obvious. And now, there is no doubt in my mind. There

was

, but your Kari vote killed it.

You are scum, who now thinks they can latch onto the recent(ish) wave of Mastin hate to get me lynched, which you were broadcasting in advance. (Your read on me has continued to shift downward, making it obvious where you'd place me, in a rather OMGUSy way: the read degenerated as my scumread grew, so now that I've begun to push you as scum for certain, you figured you might as well strike back.)

mastin has played with me more than any other player on this site, yet she has the worst track record when it comes to reading me.

Which I acknowledged early on...when I townread you. At the very beginning of the game, I quite literally said, "Wicked looks good, which means he's probably scum". To wit,

Reading Wicked as prob-town for what it's worth, though. (Which means he's almost certainly scum. )

Bins - 3 (Jaqen Hghar, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)

That Bins wagon is actually really, really strong. Like, legitimately scarily strong. I mean, the other big wagons are good, it's just that they don't have the same magic attached to them.

Bins wagon strong with Wicked on it-->Wicked is a strong townread.

Bins - 5 (Lying Cat, mastin2, Jaqen Hghar,

Wickedestjr

, hiplop)

So you think there are No scum on the bins wagon and two scum in {SC, Mac, ika,

kari

}

Yep! Pretty much. I mean, it's theoretically

possible

for there to be a scum on Bins, it's just not particularly probable.

Think no scum're on Bins-->Think Wicked is town. (Albeit the only name on the Bins wagon who could be scum.)

So yes.
I was wrong on you this game, too.

When I

townread

you.

[mastin2]

At the point in the game you were at, it was super easy to(and I'm assuming you did this) just look at all the flips so far, and see that the setup everyone was assuming had to have been wrong, when the game didn't end with BB's lynch.

That's where you go wrong. You have to understand that there were specific dynamics going on in our hydra--Voided was more or less the tether to the game, the person most able to give the history, the status, the overall feeling of things. Bulbazak was the person I most trusted to handle the setup spec because he's basically one of the only people that I trust to be better than me at it. (For the record, sthar8 is on that list too.) I was working on basically trying to fill in the gaps that game. I wasn't really "in" that game. Not even when I was 'in' it, even though I was in it the entire time. (If that makes sense.)

I just know that in my limited experience with you, you proved unwilling to reevaluate given new information, and that's what I'm warning against.

And the new information is that the commuter is even more town than before.

Wicked - your sudden attack on mastin doesn't particularly gel with your post, which mainly explains how mediocre you feel mastin is at reading at you. If mastin is scum, this isn't a misread, so it feels like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

^That. I repeat, Wicked is scum.

I could definitely see Wicked-scum, because based off the one scumgame I remember him in this seems pretty similar.

Yep.

Yeah, Kari is just as good a lynch as Aristo. Nothing said recently alleviates this, and #2806 in particular makes me want her dead.

I feel both of them are equally bad lynches, though. Why not Wicked?

[mastin2]

is almost an exact replica of Exhibit A. Read the quotes from that game and tell me I'm wrong.

I admit.
I've considered specifically going to a previous game of mine, as scum, and deliberately using/subverting it.
Multiple times even.

But I'm talking big time games of mine.
Like Tales of You levels.
And used on players of that caliber. Like Nacho at least, if not AP levels. (Actually I think the idea spawned from me being desperate to find a way to subvert zMuf's accuracy on me.)

That recreation.

You...are none of those things.
I remember the game.
I remember the general way it happened.
I remember none of the specific individual posts in it.
And I certainly wouldn't be damned to look it up.

It's just the way I talk as town. So by trying to make a case for why I'm scum...all you've done is proved the opposite.

The more you push mastin as scum while explaining how she's always misread you as town, the more uncomfortable I get, Wicked.

^That, too.

This is the first time since Tough Guy where she has expressed absolute certainty.

Which I repeat, is blatantly ignoring the early game...

where I had uncertainty in my townread

...and basically all of the mid-game...where I had a lack of conviction in my scumread.

Wicked is now spinning a narrative convenient for his agenda, one that ignores the facts in the thread.

-She has told me that she didn't forget about Tough Guy.
-She nominated my scum team for a scummie after the other game ended.
No way she is ignoring those games if she is town here.

Thus the uncertainty early-on, which you conveniently ignore.

Read my articles on meta for more detail, but basically, my approach for things is to mostly take things game-by-game, yet always have awareness of what things have happened before. And while I'm certainly aware of what has happened before, and held great caution in the read, here I've grown increasingly certain that you are scum.

[mastin2]

you guys are idiots.

Or maybe the

second

person.
(LC and I mindmeld = goodthings if memory serves me.)

Maybe she is stubborn, but she has shown that she's not

this

stubborn as town;

Last time I played with mastin, this game, she was in the Horrifying Hero hydra and had a very very strong scum read on me starting from the bottom of page 1. I've never played with somebody so certain that I was scum, even though I was town and eventually forced to claim cop. Granted it was a few years back, but I have a hard time believing mastin forgot.

Actually...I didn't. That's the same reason I haven't voted you. (Well,

aside from the votes already on you

.)

Also bolding an important thing.
Circumstances, different games, etc. Context is key--I didn't vote Wicked in part because there were others suspicious of him, which made me think better of the idea.

Here it seems like people are hard-pressed for Wicked pressure.

Mastin, what changed between the post quoted by wicked and now to make you certain you were wrong, when you are well aware that you have what appears to be a very low chance of reading him correctly?

The course of the game.

Like I said.
Wicked's shown a very specific narrative convenient to him.

Which ignores the vast majority of the game.

[mastin2]

flum is pretty obviously town, confirmed status aside.

Yep. Pretty much.

Has Mastin been right all along?

Hey, it's happened before!

And believe me, I'd love that more than any other person!

But I'm pretty sure I'm horrendously wrong this game at least on some things, if not present then past.

Not on Wicked, though.

[mastin2]

(tl;dr on Wicked, btw.
Iso me.
Control-f Wicked.
Look for what I say about him.
Compare what is there, in my iso, about him, to what Wicked is

claiming

.
Then, vote Wicked.)

[mastin2]

You don't think there's a protective role in the game? That's... strange.

Yes! It is!

What do you think that strangeness means?

I'm confused why this attack in particular is the one that's just one too many, though. She seemed to attack you with the same confidence in most of those games; is 6 wrong reads just the magic number or something?

There isn't any good reason why this attack is one too many. Everything about the attack is just plain wrong. Which is why he's scum.

[mastin2]

So I'm back on 130, but...
Right now posting to say that I'm taking a bit of a V/LA: not really in the best mindset to play tonight, my family's celebrating my birthday tomorrow (the only time we can celebrate it as a family even though it'll be six days early), and then there's my standard weekend V/LA.

[mastin2]

I'll get to this game when I can.
Just...really not in the mindset to play, here.
I don't even remember where I was. I'll iso myself tomorrow and go from wherever I last was.
Did see the flip, though. Just to make it explicit though, if there isn't a claim of a player investigating Cerb, Flub gifted to scum.
I believe the plan was to lynch the person receiving the last cop invention for a conftown chain, and if there isn't a claim today, to have it be Cerb, but honestly, not sure how I feel about it. Chain wasn't exactly supposed to end so soon and all that. 'Sides...a Shakira/Sonic/Cerb team kinda seems unlikely.

[mastin2]

Ran out of time today; agreed to work and will be getting ready for it soon, so catchup will have to wait a bit.
Sorry.

[mastin2]

Uhg.

Swear it.

I'll get back up on my feet...soonish. Might be an opportunity Friday-Sunday (I know, I'm normally V/LA, buuuuuuut) since my parents will be on vacation and thus there's no family gathering, but that's not a guaranteed and it's a bit far from now. So I should try for sooner than that. It's just that...right now I don't think I have the energy. It's 1 am. I should be in bed already. Sorry.

[mastin2]

I'm in that mode where I'm basically trying to do ten different things at once.
This game among them.
I may forget some (hopefully not, though), but I'm trying to get everything done.

[mastin2]

...Okay I'm going to be honest.
Like. I want to catch up.
It won't be hard.
But...well, I don't really

want

to catch up.
Basically, while it won't be hard, there will still be effort involved, and...well, I kinda don't feel like putting it in right now.
I'll figure out a way to make myself feel like it. Don't have much choice; this is an obligation of mine. (It's not just here, either, btw, but this game's the place it's most pertinent.) But I'm seeing myself make up excuses. I'm seeing myself drift off to do other things, purposefully, to avoid the thread, as 'justification' to avoid the catch-up. Like, just seconds ago, I was about to begin work on refining the game I'm thinking of running after Hilariously Unbalanced 3, something MONTHS away if not longer which I can do at LITERALLY ANY TIME, instead of the something that I need to do right now, here, in the contemporary game. And the only, ONLY reason I didn't? Is because I caught myself, realized the above, realized myself that I was in denial about all of the above, and came to realize, to know, all of the above was true.

I need to fix it. I'll figure out a way. Kinda have to.

[mastin2]

Uhg.

Priorities.

Why do I suck at them so bad?

It's 2:30 AM. I get up in...well, frankly, I'm supposed to get up in six hours.
I'm not even half-way finished with my mafia routine, though.

But...guh. I wake up tomorrow, get ready for work, leave for work, go straight to a parade, and that parade starts at 7 PM, going lord only knows how long, effectively meaning that while I don't have family night, I have something JUST as time-consuming in its place if not moreso, and definitely far more exhausting. Plus a weekend V/LA. I think I can post Sunday.

Just...uh...hold on until then? It would be a Very Bad Idea (TM) for you to lynch someone before I get caught up in the game, m'kay? Because I'm still working on yesterday. I know the flip. I know nothing else. I haven't done anything for this game, which means my options are to do things blindly or to get caught up and I would vastly prefer the 'get caught up' option. So, uh...please wait for me just a little bit longer?

[mastin2]

(Worth noting that I also have stuff to do before going to bed. Like, half an hour's worth of stuff. And this game alone is probably that much at minimum. Probably closer to an hour or two. Soyeah. I should be logging off, not playing. I'm sorry. I'm really turning into a repeat of the first game, only worse. I'll fix it, I just can't fix it RIGHT NOW.)

[mastin2]

So it's 3 AM in the morning, I should really be getting to bed, but honestly, I'm not feeling tired right now, and I am actually feeling ~motivated~ right now, for the first time in a while, and said motivation might not be here Sunday so best act on it now. (Even though I probably won't finish so much as this game, yet alone, my other mafia duties.)

Unvote. Vote: Kari

I made it clear that I was going to switch back to this, if mastin didn't get any support. But if I see behavior that I think is scummy, then I'm going to pursue it. Everyone not voting Aristo or Kari needs to be... Kari is still a much better lynch than Aristo, she is scummier and she has already claimed VT.

It has been unfair to the players here and to Anti, and thus I am replacing out. If it were going to get easier for me to contribute in coming days/weeks, I'd have remained, but it won't.

No worries, man. You weren't the original slot to replace in... Hope to play with you again.

This interaction in particular screams scum-scum, btw.

VOTE: Wickedestjr.

/starting point.

[mastin2]

Regardless of the commute inventor’s alignment, mastin’s reason for town reading them is seriously flawed. That’s my issue. The commute inventor, if scum, can very easily protect the players that they know scum will not kill. Townish players receiving commutes is not telling… Am I wrong, Nacho?

You continue to ignore the very, very valid point that the scum's targets have been players that the commute inventor would never target in the first place.

Who the hell was townreading Flubber? Flubb was up for being mislynched, on multiple days. Commute inventor can't have predicted that. Who in their right minds would ever protect ZX? Nobody. There are many, MANY reasons Bins wouldn't be protected, from not seeing the claim to not believing it to not thinking scum would kill her.

The commute inventor hasn't stopped a kill yet...but given the very, very pro-town choices the commute inventor has been making, to protect players of value to the town that were likely to die, you can be assured that they are doing their damnedest to try.

Wicked when two people in a row call your argument bad maybe it's not so good? Just a thought

I discussed with Cerb and convinced him that I had a valid point.

...Off of a misrep that I then proceeded to utterly destroy in my response. Let's see Cerb agree to your point after

that

.

He needed more info, alright...to see how full of shit you were.

[mastin2]

She has basically just taken the opposite position to whatever I argue.

You argued hiplop was scum.
Damn right I'll take the opposite stance of you. I won't do so deliberately, of course. That'd be spitefully playing against my wincon just to mess with you. But I

will

stick to my own reads, especially when the offer to work together and figure out a common ground has been, repeatedly, rejected by you.

Even the wrong ones.
No regret. No shame there.

But if the commute inventor was scum, and they knew that scum wanted to nightkill Bins, what is the disadvantage of giving the commute to Lying Cat? They know that the commute isn't going to prevent their nightkilll! They look good by giving the commute to a townish slot.

As has been previously discussed? Outting the existence of the commute invent. Using it on town rather than on scum to hide from the other inventors. Confirming players as town who claim the commute in a town manner and manage to use it effectively. Basically, it'd turn a SUPER-POWERFUL SCUM WEAPON into something that can only benefit the town. All for the sake of towncred they're likely not to actually get?

No.
Just no.

The commute inventor is town.

Could you give me an example of a post/comment that shows scum wording?

If I could, I would have already! Like...it's just the general things. The pushing, the way, the stuff you're saying. Just...not town.

I haven't seen any point from you that is correct or strong enough to justify your certainty.

I don't need a single point. Having so many smaller points along with that overwhelming sensation should be enough.

Okay so you acknowledged it early on, but you are ignoring it now.

No, acknowledging that I suck at reading you means, basically, I suck at having my original read on you. Scum in the original Organic I believe the whole time, scum in Tough Guy, and then later begrudgingly town, only here the other way around. That's me not ignoring it, it's me recognizing it and using it. I thought your early posting was good--which means that it was probably scum. Just like in those games.

[mastin2]

Oh and what is this vast majority that I have ignored?

My iso.

It's nearly 200 posts long.

The wicked suspicion?

Takes up maybe 25% of that, all near the bottom. At most.

That's 75% of the game as either a townread or a non-contributing factor.

Wow, I didn't realize how close we were to deadline. Now I'm starting to get worried.

We have (expired on 2015-07-17 20:30:25) left !

Spoiler: Votecount

Aristophanes - 6 (Flubbernugget, T S O, Kari, Sonic Boom, Constantine, Cerberus v666)
Kari - 4 (Aristophanes, vezokpiraka, Nachomamma8, Wickedestjr)
Constantine - 1 (Jaqen Hghar)
Wickedestjr - 1 (mastin2)
Flubber nugget - 1 (Lying Cat)
Not Voting: ika

Jaqen, Lying Cat, mastin - vote for somebody that actually has a chance of getting lynched today. Preferably not Aristo, because that bandwagon is still garbage. Inventors, get your inventions in. ika get ready to hammer.

This post is also terrible because (1) Anti would have given a deadline extension for the three replacements (Aristo requested replacement but was lynched before one could be found), (2) it advocates for a Kari lynch over Aristo, and (3) just is entirely not the Wicked that he says he is as town. (Not sure I can explain that? Just...look at what he says about him and compromising compared to his hard-line here. Doesn't really add up.)

Plus, on a side-note, it's kinda bossing the inventors around, when frankly, the first priority of an inventor should be in figuring out who to submit their invention to, long-before the day is anywhere near completion, making the order unnecessary. (Though this is assuming, of course, the inventors actually are around in the early stages of the day phase. If they're absent and basically just prod-dodging, goes without saying that there's a risk they may not have submitted something yet because they're waiting until they can get good info. This particularly applies to the commute inventor, whose job it is to predict the next nightkill, thus, necessitating them being caught up in the thread. The action can always be changed, of course, but there's the matter of blindly sending it to someone who might not be trustworthy, and the day ending before they have the chance to figure that out. Pretty much the only players that the commute inventor can safely avoid that on are the conftown players, but that's assuming that they haven't already been protected when that is a probability, since giving it to the same conftown twice or arguably even to conftown twice might not be effective because scum are expecting it meaning that the shot is wasted.
...The tl;dr of all the above? Basically, it's essential for the commute inventor to be caught up. They need to submit an action, as informed as possible, and the more time that is given for that, the better. Not sure I'm describing that adequately enough.)

[mastin2]

Aristophanes - 8 (Flubbernugget, T S O, Kari, Sonic Boom, Fluminator, Cerberus v666, Nachomamma8, Jaqen Hghar)

Kari - 4 (Aristophanes, vezokpiraka, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)
Wickedestjr - 1 (mastin2)
Not Voting: ika[/color]

Btw, realize I'm shooting myself in the foot with this suggesting particularly given I'm among the names, but radical idea, here.

How about we look entirely outside the Aristophanes wagon for scum?

Given that he flipped a rather vital scum PR (the only way Aristophanes wouldn't be a valuable scum PR is if the scum had reason to believe they had found every inventor--yet with their ZX vanilla kill N1, I can't see how they

possibly

could have found all three), chances are significantly higher of no or minimal bussing, correct?

Such as, saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy, Wicked?

/4 AM. NOW I'm getting tired, and the beginning of D4 seems like a good place to stop for the night. Hopefully I can keep the motivation up come Sunday. (Not anticipating anything on Saturday.)

[mastin2]

(Basically, I'm looking at a Wicked/vezok/ika scumteam right now, if it wasn't clear.)