SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Drixx]

I have a rather ridiculous amount of catching up still to do. I'll attempt to have myself inserted into the fun within a half day or so. (Trying to be realistic).

[Drixx]

I've made it through the first 4000 posts (not in depth reading, but skimming and speed reading). I have to get some work done but I'll be back to finish speed reading and skimming. I'll ask questions if there's something that doesn't make sense to me. I almost didn't replace in, but I really enjoy SMITE (bought the all gods forever pack in beta for super cheap!). The community has way less blowhards/jackholes than the LoL community. I couldn't resist a mafia game themed on it. My eyes are a bit irritated with me atm though.

[Drixx]

Okay. My brain is fried. This thread is erm ... interesting. Can someone give me advice on how far into the thread I should start to do real reads on the living? I really don't want to ISO people (unless I find reason to dig deeper in detail) or take notes on nearly 7k posts if I can help it. Is current day start far enough back?

[Drixx]

Magua, with all due respect, I'm going to do it right replacing into this game. After I've got my notes down on the living players, I'll decide what I want to say with a proper intro into the game. It's very possible I'll tell you lots of what I think about mastin2 and ZZZX. I'd appreciate it if you could give me some guidance RE #6848 so I can get on with it and be productive in here this evening. Thanks in advance.

[Drixx]

I've read my neighborhood QT. My sense of things is that the other people in my QT have strong evidence for being townie. I don't believe I've seen anything that confirms anyone as townie without me making at least one or two assumptions. I also feel like my brains went through a blender reading this thread, so I may perhaps be being overly cautious.

[Drixx]

Let me be slightly more specific. The neighborhood I'm in worked out a pretty convincing and well thought out plan on how to trust each other. I can't poke any specific holes in it and I rate the evidence and interactions there to be very highly probable that my neighborhood is town. This thread was a behemouth to consume in a single day, and I'm trying very hard not to screw up the game by having overlooked something I ought to keep to myself. I apologize if me being cautious and trying not to screw up everyone's SEVEN THOUSAND POSTS of effort is a minor inconvenience to your day.

[Drixx]

She has made no secret that she's dealing with some real life serious problems at the moment, which should probably be kept in mind.

- I have seen plenty of people legitimately not realize a deadline is approaching, especially when playing in multiple games. Day phases on this site are very long, so I don't think mixing up or missing the deadline is necessarily something not to believe. I can buy that.
- Given my own knowledge of my actions/abilities, I wouldn't be surprised.
- Mod error is a thing that happens, even with the best mods. That has a lot more to do with the mod than Mastin. I tend to try and be super meticulous when running a game, and I like complex games but I'm not sure I would expect myself to make zero errors in this particular game.

In short, I see no reason to be suspicious of Mastin at the moment.

Can you

please

tell me whether doing a non-skim reading starting at this day phase will be sufficient or whether I need to go back further? After speed reading / skimming the entire thing, I've got a lot of scrambled thoughts and I really want to do a proper read and make notes so I don't mix people and claims and reads up.

[Drixx]

Last question: mastin getting a report on tso despite nonactioning?

I never bother to read any of a game when I replace in, and I don't recommend you bother either.

There are a few things I've seen that lead me to believe that a delayed report isn't at all unlikely. My own ability set has some tradeoffs that would require me to not do some useful things in order to do something else useful at a later time. I don't see why Mastin can't also have something in that vein. I mean ... this game has featured some crazy role stuff that's already in the thread.

[Drixx]

I'll be more specific about things from my neighborhood after I actually get done talking to my neighborhood and they've answered my questions. You'll get an answer then Magua.

While it is REALLY appealing to just read from when I replaced in, that feels like it's not really good play and certainly disrespectful to all the players who have been here since the start. I feel obligated as a replacement player to form good reads and all I really need is some informed opinion of how far back I should go to ensure I come away with reliable reads.

[Drixx]

So that's confirmation from T S O that the info is correct, and the only question is whether Mastin was honest about how it all happened, or has some reason to obfuscate. Would said reason necessarily be bad? (I'd like honest answers as an unclouded view from someone NOT having read my neighborhood thread should be helpful to me decide how much trust to put in said neighborhood's members).

[Drixx]

I love the avatar TSO. I'm guessing you'll recognize mine.

I feel like maybe the neighborhood mechanic has led this game into an awkward game state. I understand it, because I'm not really willing to say more than I'm pretty sure my neighbors are town. I'd say like 90-95% sure. It was kind of an interesting replace in, heh.

I will compliment the game mod on this though: This is about what throwing all the SMITE gods together ought to feel like. A+ for authenticity.

I have a bunch of notes from reading all of this day phase. I'm going to do what mastin suggested and go back a bit further to that point and see if anything changes, and then I'll share my thoughts. I don't expect them to be world shattering or anything, but perhaps fresh eyes will be helpful for some of you?

[Drixx]

can we lynch mastin?

I'd prefer if we didn't. I have strong good reasons to prefer this.

[Drixx]

I'm sad I didn't get on this game from the beginning. I've now caught up and have some notes and thoughts. It looks like the rest of you are pretty much agreed on going for Ank today. I think I can get on board with that, although I'd like to review my notes from my reading and do a couple of ISO and context checks to be sure of my thoughts. Thanks for giving me the time to get acclimated.

Also, as an aside, some of the stuff you guys got up to in this game was hilarious to read as a replacement. Thanks for that

[Drixx]

Isn't self voting playing against your wincon? Suiciding and self-voting always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

*Cue the "that's what she said!" crowd*

[Drixx]

That was a pretty thorough analysis. If I am reading it correct, then it is VERY likely that one of {Ank|TSO} is scum, and Ank earlier self voted himself to L-1. I see no reason not to give him his wish, and at least it helps PoE.

VOTE: Ankamius

[Drixx]

Bleh. That should say "At

worst

it helps PoE".

[Drixx]

I haven't played a lot with TSO yet, but I'm gonna have to agree that the TSO that people around here

revere

doesn't strike me as the sort of figure who would make #7144. I would expect to see TSO (the townie) doing everything he could to help his wincon, so that even if the whole strange mod error thing ended up getting him killed, he would have left valuable game winning sorts of stuff behind as a sort of legacy to the rest of us.

Mind you, I don't really know TSO ... but when someone has a bit of a legendary persona that lots of people know and refer to, it kind of builds them up in the imagination, you know?

[Drixx]

I am in Mastin's neighborhood and still waiting for the resolution of the plan we have in place. I do not believe it's possible for me to know for sure that nothing interfered with it, but if I understand everything from my reading after replacing in, we

should

be able to basically function as a mason team at this point in my neighborhood. I'm waiting for Mastin to show up and confirm everything worked as expected and then I will want to go through all the logic myself to make sure I've not been duped.

In other words, I won't be endorsing Mastin's claims without being convinced myself, and seeing as I'm in the neighborhood and know everything that has been kept close to the vest, I'll be quite happy to answer questions if Mastin shows up with some obvious dodge, and unless She has some amazingly believable reason to ask for

yet another day

I would almost certainly be on that wagon.

All of this is pointless speculation until Mastin shows up though. So far there's nothing in our neighborhood for today.

[Drixx]

At what point should I start being suspicious of Mastin? I'm in her neighborhood and there's a ton of stuff in there between her, ZZZX and the prior player on my slot that was all supposed to culminate in a super useful reveal today. I've been asked not to share the details of what we were doing and what we were trying to accomplish ... but this absence is really shaking my faith.

@Metal Sonic - Where is the reasoning for your #7277? Why is that conjecture more likely than FT assuming they might have tried to break his BP or just assuming that the dead person was killed by scum? I mean, there was intent stated in the thread to kill him already, so it seems like it might be a smart play, especially given that it has you making assumptions about three level protection that might not exist. The scum could have made the play that way just to set up a situation where they can take you out when you think you're safe.

I mean, that's just conjecture on my part. Is #7277 more than conjecture on your part?

[Drixx]

I think Mastin is overselling how OP the role is a bit. It requires some very smart play and a little luck to be super strong.

[Drixx]

mastin's grand reveal was not so grand after all.

i am going "meh" rather "wow"

meh

It would have been staggeringly impressive if she hadn't had the night 2 snafu and we had been able to do what we wanted to a guilty result. It would have conftowned our entire neighborhood since the plan called for all three of us to do our part. I don't really want to say any more because it's still possible to make it work and ensure a town win.

[Drixx]

This game feels weird for some reason. If I had to guess, it's probably because of scum hardcore lurking and town fighting amongst each other.
- TheWayItEnds ( 5 days 22 hours )
- Espeonage ( 2 days 11 hours )
- theaceofspades ( 8 days 0 hours )

You really think the entire remaining scum can all be found among the lurkers? That seems kind of like a really bad plan. I think more has been posted in the last 8 hours than the rest of this day phase. Might be a little bit of bias in our minds about activity ups and downs? I think it might be prudent to poke these folks to check in either way. I would just be surprised if the scum team just team lurked.

(And all of them have posted elsewhere but not here since day start. Espy has all but disappeared from this game while posting elsewhere on site, which is annoying.)

This is really dirty. I've been watching the game, and there were all of a sudden

pages

of posts since I checked last night. Before that the posts were just dribbles. If things are slow and then there's a short term spurt of activity, you're always gonna have people who weren't interested during the dribbles. Why are you looking to ding people for being inactive in a game that was, until quite recently, kind of barely sputtering along?

[Drixx]

*tap tap tap* - Does this thing work? I feel like I'm the invisible player in this game or something.

[Drixx]

I think ZeL1nK just did more to convince me that it's scum than any amount of posts by other players could.

[Drixx]

I think ZeL1nK just did more to convince me that it's scum than any amount of posts by other players could.

Fantastic. Quite honestly, I do not care what you think because I don't think you're a competent enough player to know what you're talking about, as evident by your awkward defense of lurker slots for no good reason.

I would show you the meter that measures my care factor for your opinions on this game, but it's so far below zero that it's busted the meter.

Oh dear. Nobody has ever insulted me before. What ever shall I do?

If you insist on blinding yourself to logic, that's your problem. This game has been stagnant for quite some time. Not only that, but assuming that you'll find scum amongst people with ridiculously long idle times in the game is just like asking to lose the game. The fact that you misconstrued what I was saying as a

defense

of anyone or anything is just proof of your idiocy. Do you

really

think scum are going to have 8 day lurking spells? On what planet does it make sense that someone gets randomly assigned to the informed majority, which most people admit they enjoy far more than being assigned as town, and then lets himself get outed by a huge period of lurking in just the one game while participating in others?

Did you even think about it at all before you decided to insult me, or do you routinely just flail around making random guesses until you, like a blind squirrel, stumble upon a nut?

[Drixx]

ZeL1nK that's rather poor form. If you think I've overlooked something important, the rational thing to do is point me to it. I take exception with the claim that I was

defending

anyone. I just found the idea that the remaining scum would all be super idle to be unlikely.

When I defend someone, you'll know it. It will look a lot like when I defended Mastin earlier.

[Drixx]

Also I don't care what is or isn't poor form.

Your input so far this day phase has been... suggesting that lurking isn't necessarily scummy.

Yay. Thanks. I wasn't aware of this before, but now I am. Where we would be without you?

Do you know why I suggested one of the people not providing any content be vig-killed instead of suggesting we should blindly lynch one of the lurkers? I'll let you take a while to think about it and come up with an answer yourself.

In the mean time, if this is all you have to say about the game, then I really don't care about your input.

I don't care if this sounds harsh. I'm fed up with dealing with awful arguments in this game.

TSO should have been lynched already. He is plainly and obviously scum.

I agree with you that there has been a lot of useless drivel in this thread, which is why I'm not really too suspicious of the lurkers. Please feel free to check my on site posts. I

despise

lurking. In this case, I can understand checking out of this game,

especially

with the quality, or lack thereof, in the time since I replaced in.

That said, I would

much rather

that my neighborhood does our thing and gets a confirmed guilty on TSO (or one of the other two people we've narrowed it down to, but TSO seems like the obvious most scummy one), so that we can do our thing and create a trusted conftown group out of the three of us. I get that you might be skeptical of Mastin, but I'm just explaining why my vote isn't on TSO yet.

I've been trying to figure out via TSO's associatves who his scum buddies are so I can provide a viable alternate lynch that people will agree is scummy. It's just taking awhile in this gigantic threadnought.

[Drixx]

Vezok ... this day phase was going along quite slowly and without much of any merit UNTIL the past 24 hours. Are you really trying to argue otherwise?

@ZeL1nk & @ooba - There is a very specific reason I want to know

for sure

that TSO is scum, before he dies. I do understand that it appears most of the game doesn't feel like waiting, and if nobody is swayed by me saying I have good and sound reasons, then I shall simply try and find another way to do what I want to do with TSO. I will vote for him if the people I view as most probably town believe that's the right play today.

[Drixx]

Okay ... that makes sense. What I see from TSO is more inconsistent than necessarily things I read as scummy. I will ISO him and do my thing where I assume he's scum and see how much sense his play makes and then assume he's town and see how much sense his play makes. If I feel like he's more likely to be scum at that point, I'll vote him and give my thoughts.

[Drixx]

Note to self: do not let ZZZX into LyLo ever.

ZZZX has really good reasons to believe what he does. Obviously it's possible that Mastin or I have tricked him or he has tricked us, but I don't think so. Obviously the neighborhood chat has a lot to do with that. As someone else early speculated, it seems like having scum in every neighborhood would be a really easy failure mode for a game, so at the moment I'm reading my own neighborhood as almost certainly having no scum in it.


@all - I feel like TSO is playing far too townie for everyone to really believe he's scum. His posts, especially in ISO, are all reasoned and there's some very genuine frustration on his part that nobody seems to be evaluating the game and evaluating what he's saying. He isn't flailing at all. I'll grant that it's possible that he could just be

that good

as scum, but I'm not getting that vibe from him at all. Even though it feels like his lynch is inevitable, he's legitimately scum hunting and trying to help town. That's a really strong indicator to me.

I

am

; however, wondering why Vezok has so much town cred. I've seen some scummy posting just today (timing and content both).

[Drixx]

Can a few people give me a rundown of what happened day one? Feel free to add personal bias, and feel free to call out the bias in other people's summaries

All this is from memory so pardon me if I get this wrong.

D1 - We start off on some neighbourhood speculation. Some people breadcrumb or outright claim neighbourhoods. Xombie gets a smallish wagon for 'jokey' posts and other reasons - but that dies down because his responses seem town. Ace of spades is the wagon that dominates much of D1. It dies down close to deadline because people just don't 'feel' it. AP is a compromise wagon.

Luckily he flips third party so it's not a wasted day.

Your wording here is interesting. Wouldn't the day not be wasted if you lynched town, because of knowledge gained from the flip? Sure it would be better for a 3rd party to flip, but the day wouldn't be a waste if you lynched town, unless it was a flash lynch

D2 is more useful because
- We have a day vig who claims and asks for shots - Those reactions will be useful
- He hits scum so reactions to that will be useful
- We have a gladiate used between three players. I don't consider the wagons particularly telling but still - it's action packed as opposed to the snooze fest that is D1
- Then one of the wagoned claimed a 1-shot ult vig.
- I won't spoil the rest of the day but it has a modkill, scum flip and town flip

Overall: It's a minefield of interactions.

I shall go back and read day 2 tomorrow morning

If you get lost in there, we'll send a search party! I should have listened when I replaced in and they told me not to read everything. I'm still not sure I ever

really

made it back out of this thread. It could be the case that I'm still stuck somewhere in there and it's just sort of simulating my life for me now.

Also, the last page has been hilarious. Can I be Sweeden?

[Drixx]

I gotta agree with you Magua. This game has stalled pretty hard. Wanna work together to jump start things? I think that TSO is almost certainly gonna be lynched today, right or wrong (and while I personally am reading him town, I'm considered n00b and unrefined by most MS veterans, and for all I know, I am).

Let's perhaps look at others and see if we can make some headway, yes? There seem to be a lot of people who are comfortable with just prod dodging the way through the day, content with the inevitable TSO lynch.

[Drixx]

God TSO should really have claimed sooner. That's just a mess. If he is telling the truth, and his ult (presumably) does what he's describing, that's a huge loss of potential game swing in our favor. TSO, you're better than that man.

[Drixx]

Espy I'm really really really sure zelink is town.

I'll eat my hat if he's not.

Will you want some mustard with that? Regular or horshradish hot?

(I'm not actually convinced Zelink is scum but ... my gosh there is some scummy mcscumerson posts out of him today).

[Drixx]

That happens with us all TSO. This is a game where skill is subjective and being good requires a wide variety of skills. To make it worse, there are many competing ideas of how to go about certain things. I have found, so far, that the people who are drawn to forum mafia as a hobby tend to be on the above side of average intelligence and are usually well educated, well spoken, and tend to have the commensurate high opinion of themselves. I am not excluded from this analysis. This is why I try to keep my own mafia pay rational and leave emotion at the door.

The upside of that is that you can have quite a lot of fun with these games, apart from the intellectual challenge aspects, as most of the folks who stick with it long term can be like mental whetstones.

I haven't slept due to grading exams, so perhaps this will make no sense. Perhaps it will.

[Drixx]

Can someone please explain to me why we think Vezok is town? In ISO, he looks like the very definition of a modern major scumgeneral.

[Drixx]

I'm a bit curious as to where ZeL1nK is going with this:

VOTE: TSO

[Drixx]

Well, while I've got your attention ... why shouldn't I be voting for Vezok again? Interactions with known scum plus fairly bad logic being used to say he's town, plus him only dropping in occasionally to say something useless ... seems like a lot of reasons to have my vote there. What did I miss on my catch up read?

[Drixx]

Sine Arcshot: TSO

Again? Really?

[Drixx]

Interactions with known scum

Elaborate.

Is that based on actually analysing all the interactions and arriving at the conclusion he's scum or is the interaction you're talking about, "he claims to have used his role on Pumbaa"?

If it might actually convince people to think about it, I'll dig back through the ISO and pull stuff out in context and show why he reads scummy to me. That's an awful lot of work in an 8,500 post game if I just missed some reason whereby everyone is sure he's town, and thought I'd, you know, ask first.

[Drixx]

This is the game that doesn't end; it goes on and on my friends;
some people started playing it, not knowing what it was;
and now they'll play forever just because ... {Go to Beginning}

[Drixx]

When I replaced in, I was

not

given my predecessor's actions. I had to ask what "I" had done. What just happened when TAOS slot was replaced was pretty harsh and over the top. I'm glad to see that reason prevailed.

@Magua - I'm sorry you don't find my contributions to be enough. I replaced late into a game with coming up on 9,000 posts. What my slot has done ties in heavily with a plan being undertaken by my neighborhood, and I've been asked not to interfere, whether I agree with that plan or not. Hopefully I'll have a very useful contribution in the next day phase. I will just pull a Mastin and say that the wait will be worth it.

[Drixx]

We're arguing a bit about whom we think is scum. Every time I see Vezok poke up and post he looks more scummy, but there's some contradiction there. I am approx. 50% of the way through looking at him in context for the entire game. (Holy HELL this thread is crazy and long). I may end up concluding that he's solid and should never be touched ... just something has pinged my scumdar with him so while the game thread has been nonsense lately I've been doing that. Sorry I haven't been more communicative. I figured the case one way or the other would be more appreciated than a post like this.

[Drixx]

Wow ... that was a phenomenally scummy move. That seems like a pretty scum oriented ability on top of the super scummy posts.

@Magua - I don't use my vote very casually. It's a relic from the site where I played for years. I use it when I can't get someone to answer me and need to try and put pressure on them to engage, or when I'm reasonably sure someone is scum. You aren't the first to wonder about it, so maybe after the game is over you could brief me on the expectations here at MS as far as vote usage goes?

Also ... was that a one time thing or would I lose my vote if I put it on Heartless?

[Drixx]

Yeah ... I don't see that as a very townie ability, nor was the way he went about it and the surrounding posts very townie looking to me.

@Heartless - What do you have to say for yourself?

VOTE: Heartless

[Drixx]

Magua! I already told you that I had to ask for my own actions when I subbed in. This whole "Claim all your predecessor's actions right now" thing only works if you can be sure the person actually has access to that info, and you can't.

[Drixx]

I think Heartless should probably be the lynch for a ton of different reasons. I am going to prod mastin in our neighborhood to see what she's thinking.

Someone eluded to it earlier, but at this point, our neighborhood is about as completely trusting of each other as a mod-confirmed mason group, because {reasons}. I'm amused that Mastin is protected and scum don't know why and thus we get to keep working towards what we think is a very broken (and unintended) mechanics based game win. I probably have said more than Mastin would like, but at some point (toMorrow I hope) we're going to end up delivering scum on a platter and probably explaining it at that point or soon afterward so... yeah.

[Drixx]

These days the days seem to go on for days and days.

[Drixx]

If it makes you feel any better Magua, Mastin was

convinced

you were scum, which means you played scummy looking enough that you wouldn't have drawn a night kill without being copped as innocent.

[Drixx]

Magua ... I just assumed you wanted to get night killed out of this game that's gonna go well past 10k posts and is taking FOREVER. Seemed like Mastin did you a favor on that count.

[Drixx]

Okay oh reluctant ones. This is a simple exercise.

Either Heartless is scum or he isn't. I read heartless as scum because of the

way

the ability was used and what it has done to the game. I ask myself who benefits from the game stagnating and nobody doing any real scumhunting? Easy answer.

On the off chance that Heartless

isn't

scum, he still has to go because of the reality that we will always be questioning him over what he did today. If he makes it into a hypothetical end game, he's mislynch bait. I don't see how I would vote anyone else left in the game right now over him if we got down to a spot where MYLO/LYLO was a concern ... so that means that rationally I should vote him right now ... which I have, I think. But just in case...

VOTE: Heartless

[Drixx]

Thus that last line where I say I think I already am voting heartless, but just to be sure. It can't hurt right?

There's such a thing as making a point too ... which apparently sailed over your head mate.

[Drixx]

Skybird ... I've been scum reading Vazok, but you're basically suggesting that he tried to kill you, and you let it through and didn't deflect it, and yet you are alive. This seems to defeat the suggestion that Vezok tried to kill you, right?

[Drixx]

I know what Mastin did, and because of what happened during the night and the claims right when the day started, her action may have snared scum. We'll see when she shows up.

[Drixx]

town:

Magua
Ollie
Ooba
Zelink
Mastin2
Metal Sonic
Mnemonic
Otolia

These players will not be lynched throughout the course of the game unless mastin claims what makes ZZZX and Drixxx actual confirmed town. Lynch order is likely Skybird to TSO to Espeonage to ZZZX to Drixx to vezok to TWIE. If Drixx and ZZZX confirm themselves, they get into the town block and push Otolia and Mnemonic near the end. If they just kind of confirm themselves, they make it to the end of the lynch list.

you cant have someone in a town block and have someone he confirmed to be 100% town outside of it you know.

that and the fact that there is a REASON we dont give you the info. We gave you what mastin does for now so dont ask for the impossible.

Just so you're aware, in case you missed it, the only slot here 100% confirmed to be town is us. Magua is close to being the other one.

You guys can stop futzing around and promising stuff that has yet to come and give us information, and confirm yourselves if possible. I'm not really interested in holding out for more empty promises.

If you guys have caught scum and can help contribute to the game, do it. I'm really not interested in excuses or anything else.

Look mate... I already told you that Mastin should be here with info. Just chill. If she did what she said she was doing last night, we should have at least one scum and possibly a 2nd scum or can conftown another person. I'm not sure why you have to be so impatient. We told you that we needed Mastin's results and you keep on pressing and trying to throw doubt on ZZZX and I for no apparent reason.

Just because you got mod flipped and then resurrected doesn't mean you have the game any more figured out than the rest of us. So stop with your sudden "I am the only conftown so I can be a jerk and people can deal with it" crap. You know that Mastin has issues and isn't around much on the weekends, but you're being a total dick because we

FREAKING NEED MASTIN'S RESULTS BEFORE WE CAN TELL YOU THEM

.

[Drixx]

I mean seriously. It's not like Mastin's signature says "Permanently V/LA on the weekends" or anything; oh ... wait. It actually says exactly that.

Saying crap like "You guys can stop futzing around..." when I already said we needed to wait for Mastin to get the results is just asinine.

[Drixx]

There are extremely good reasons for ZZZX and I to keep some things to ourselves and keep the scum guessing. I'm completely convinced that Mastin is town and I've got really solid reasons why I'm convinced. If the night happened the way it appears to, then our plan will finally bear the fruits it is meant to. After that, once we've given out the stuff we haven't talked about, it will take help to keep our particular combination of abilities in play, but it will be worth the effort.

I recently learned what the Amished tell is, so while I'm aware that I'm "giving" it here, let me say that I'm not just blindly doing what my slot's predecessor did. I read through the neighborhood and I read through the game (my GOD that was a horrible experience). I made a decision for myself to trust my neighbors based upon {stuff} and I'm just asking you to reserve judgment on ZZZX and I until we actually explain what we've been up to. It was Mastin's idea, and it's really quite clever and I have very strong reasons for believing that it likely pays its dividends today.

Now might be a really good time to place bets on who tried to kill Imperium. Also, I am interested in your actual reads Imperium, since you are literally 100% mod confirmed town. That doesn't make you right, but it does mean you don't have some scum agenda. I'd really like just like a sentence or two from you guys on what you think. For example, I basically put the hardcore lurkers from yesterday into my probtown pile because the scum team took heavy losses early on in this game and would need to avoid being singled out for being lurksacks. My thinking isn't nearly as trustworthy as yours at the moment though, so I'm interested in what you two think.

[Drixx]

I knew Mastin had Bees on Imperium and was expecting us to get the killer, but the interplay of abilities requires a whiteboard and several minutes at this point to try and keep straight.

We now have Vezok popping up in a couple places that don't make sense. I've thought about it for the last few minutes and nothing occurs to me that explains the info we got today. I'm biased because I've had a gut scum on Vezok for the last couple weeks real time. Can someone who doesn't have a strong read either way maybe look at the info and try and make sense of it? Like ... Vezok being scum could maybe explain it, but I'm trying to figure out how Vezok targeting Skybird but not killing him also results in Vezok with the bees? My best theory (again, biased by my gut scum read on him) is that he used an ability and also performed the kill?

I'm off to get some sleep. Hopefully this will make more sense in the morning.

P-Edit: Ahh ... Mastin has more. Mastin ... care to share in the neighborhood? I'll check after I brush and floss and such. Curiosity is killing the Drixx.

[Drixx]

So.
I went into night knowing my investigation was 90% likely to be worthless.
Today makes it 100%.

Yesterday, I had bees on Imperium, soyeah.

Lol. This is funny.

Not really. ZZZX and I knew that already which is why I was hopeful we would have caught the killer in the act. I'm not sure what Mastin still has up that sleeve though and it's time for bed. Perhaps my hopes aren't dashed after all?

[Drixx]

Yeah, as far as I understand you have to have bees to give bees.

Do bees ever leave?

Those given bees through whatever means: zzzx, mastin, tso, magua, us.

So, in order for vezok to have bees, one of those five people had to target vezok.

Lol wasn't us, look at our role pm.

As far as I understand them (Mastin can confirm), the Bees have to be wiped by a special ability (this the previously pointed to Bees that got taken off).

Mastin has to target during the day, so maybe give her a little slack on the "Mastin is the worst ever blah blah blah" crap please?

I'm gonna give out a little more info, and my neighbors might be irritated but it should still be pretty WIFOM enough not to screw us.

One of ZZZX and Myself can provide immunity or reflectiveness, at will. It is not the ultimate of whichever of us can do that.

One of ZZZX and Myself can super hammer (Vig on steroids; cannot be blocked, redirected, stopped or undone like last night's kill was) someone. This

is

an ultimate which has had it's necessary condition met since the 2nd day and cannot be unmet at this point. It's also re-useable but has a short cool down because of what it is and what it takes to use it.

So the plan is for Mastin to keep on spreading the bees around to people who (at the time) seem like good targets. Hindsight bias has made you all criticize her choices but they were all pretty sound at the time they were made, for various reasons which will be clear if you all read our neighborhood chat after the game. ZZZX and I, by our powers combined, keep the group together and will execute scum with extreme, lasting and unstoppable prejudice.

That's the plan, in basic for, without detailing the actual abilities ZZZX and I have (aside from the icing on the cake one which is now unstoppable unless scum can figure out how to get the right one of us without reflecting a kill onto themselves or just fizzling their shot, LOL). Once we have a guilty and we pull off the super vig, I expect we can do a full ability claim if the demonstration of my truthfulness isn't enough, as the game is starting to stretch into late game territory and I'm not sure we'll get to use the ability twice. Scum are gonna be after us now already since I talked about it, but I'm kind of not okay with people bashing Mastin when she took our basic skills and realized we had a foolproof way to win the game if we could trust each other and stay the course. The early part of the game was spent confirming each other, sadly.

I mean, in hindsight it's easy to see why we trust each other, and I replaced into the gamestate with the work which resulted in that already accomplished, but it would be nice to have those particular actions back and we might have already demonstrated everything I just talked about and we could theoretically even have met the recharge and be ready to fire again.

So you can bitch at us for being secretive if you really want to. You can pile on Mastin because she made choices which both ZZZX and I agreed with (so pile on all three of us please), if you want. But really, what this comes down to is this:

1.) If you think there are scum among the three of us, then we have to all be scum. This is true because the early time in the game was used to confirm each other via bees (and something else which we won't be sharing until the game is over, because we're paranoid it might be a clue that could let scum get mastin instead of killing themselves, and that would just not be worth any amount of people reading us slightly more townie).

2.) We've already given out enough info that it makes it considerably harder for us to catch scum in the act. I am personally of the opinion that we've already hampered scum's ability to act with our actions, now that they know about the bees. It would have been way cooler if we could have kept the bees and how they work secret because there could be scum with bees that are just unable to act but being town read or something.

2a.) Of course, in the case of scum who are constrained ... as long as Mastin stays alive, and we kill more scum, eventually they will be forced to act and Mastin will know and then we win. So there's that.

Long, stream of consciousness style post. I know it's a wall. Sorry. Just super irritated at the barbs being lobbed at Mastin. She, ZZZX and I have done this together as a group. We all weigh in on each other's choices. If you want to criticize, then you criticize us all.

Now ... get your petty sniping over with and let's get some scum killed. I see there's some request to trust and vote TSO? Do we have some reason to be really sure about that?

[Drixx]

I want to emphasize that last question:

Do we have some reason to be really sure about TSO being scum? Like ... is the reason we should vote him solid enough that it would prompt you to tell us to trust you and vote him in a "lynch scum or lose the game" situation?

[Drixx]

When should we have used it? Think critically about such an ability. Do you think it comes at no cost? Do you think there's no downsides to using it?

Further, people have been pushing Mastin for info about why they should town read our group and consider us masons. Don't you think displaying the ability to find and execute scum would be a pretty convincing display of why?

[Drixx]

I want to emphasize that last question:

Do we have some reason to be really sure about TSO being scum? Like ... is the reason we should vote him solid enough that it would prompt you to tell us to trust you and vote him in a "lynch scum or lose the game" situation?

I'm pretty sure TSO is still unkilable so all your votes are kinda useless.

If there's sufficient and convincing reasons to kill TSO (read: convince Mastin, ZZZX and myself that he's scum), we

can

kill him. There's no amount of invincible that stops something that can't be blocked, redirected or undone. I suppose there's a slight chance of an irresistible force meets immovable object style conflict but no... I'm pretty sure if we have reason to be willing to call the storm, the target will be all like

[Drixx]

Drixx, I appreciate your post giving us more info on what has been going on with your neighborhood. You have to remember though, you were in the know. From the outside looking in, much of what mastin was claiming seemed like smoke and mirrors due to the length of time this has gone on. Who are the three of you scum reading? Through all of this do you have consensus on anyone?

Honestly I'm not sure it's worthwhile to lynch TSO again. Didn't he claim that he would die two or three periods after being lynched? If that is the case, he will either be dead at the end of today or dead at the beginning of D6.

If he was being honest about the whole "I only temporarily escape" thing. I suppose he's a good alternate usage for our sekret weapon. I'd really rather pull off the plan Mastin hatched though. It was really quite genius on her part and as much criticism as she's had lobbed at her, I'd really like to have the payoff be spectacular. I'm all like

invested

now.

As for consensus ... on a lot of things. I'm not sure if ZZZX and Mastin are as convinced as I am that we already have scum hemmed in with the bees. I think it's just a matter of time and continuous pressure at this point. I imagine the scum PT is buzzing (pun intended) right about now, heh.

[Drixx]

The problem I have with you two is that you're calling pushing us to reveal things that help scum "trying to get stuff done and cut through the bullshit". I've now said more than I should (and irritated my neighborhood in the process) so you can understand why we weren't super keen on just claiming outright.

Like ... given the amount of roles we've seen flip that have to do with votes and stuff, I should think that us obfuscating to protect an ability that is immune to all that and is an unstoppable way to kill scum is super reasonable. It has been pointed out in my neighborhood that the way I phrase my reveal may have given the scum the information they need to pick us off, despite me trying to give zero indication as to who is doing what in our grouping. If I got us killed trying to satisfy your impatience, I'm going to be annoyed with you a bit.

And yes, one of us can do the equivalent of an unstoppable Vig shot. The ability actually seemed underwhelming when it was first posted to the neighborhood and we discussed it but in light of some of the recent stuff that has happened, it appears to be balanced specifically with other abilities in mind. That's why I said we've been trying to ensure we have a confirmed 100% guilty without a doubt scum to use it on. Once it has to be charged up again, it may never become available for a second use, so it's not something we want to do lightly.

I understand that it's frustrating when people feel like the best play they have is to be secretive, but surely you can understand, just from what I

have

revealed, why we are playing this close to our vest, yeah? And certainly you can see how Mastin's bees ability will continue to box scum in and if we keep her alive long enough, we can PoE the scum because of it. And surely you would agree that it would have been better for scum not to realize that trying to come after us could result in them killing themselves, right? The info is out, and that makes it a little less likely to kill a scum, but now they have to make a choice between two bad options:

A.) Let Mastin keep on spreading bees and boxing them in, sooner or later catching the killer in the act, and all the while further and further constraining them from free action. Eventually, if left alive, her power results in a pretty solid PoE victory.
B.) They can try their luck on killing one of us, but the wrong choice results in them killing themselves instead.

I think overall we played our situation about as optimally as possible. I'm sorry that you have questions whose answers would help scum. Satisfying your curiosity (which will be completely satisfied once the game is over) is a way lower priority to me than winning the game. Satisfying your curiosity at this point gives scum the info they need to take out the utility that my neighborhood brings to the table. So I've said as much as I'm willing to say, which was already considerably more than my neighbors felt was safe to share.

[Drixx]

The whole "We're town, trust us" thing pre-dates me. My only irritation was with the posts attacking Mastin during the weekend when she's V/LA. That's it. I've given info because I feel like folks have been waiting for awhile to know what prompted the things Mastin said early on. You should now have a pretty good picture of what we're doing. There's evidence enough to confirm Mastin does what she says she does based upon other people confirming results she gave as being accurate. Out of the three of us, I would say Mastin should probably be on most people's town list, but that's my read on it.

All I can say as far as ZZZX and I go is that Mastin and ZZZX worked out a pretty decent way for us to be like 99% sure we can trust each other at the start of the game. When I replaced in, I read up through everything and evaluated it for myself. I'm personally satisfied that there are no obvious holes in logic or anything like that. I trust that they are both town. The only real scenario where that isn't the case is if they are both scum and the early part of our neighborhood PT is a snowjob to fool me. I am pretty sure that it's not, but it

is

a possibility. I would wager a good amount that they're both town. Too much of what I saw in catching up on the game reinforces the read. It's possible they conned Xombie and me, but not very probable.

So yeah, my "rant" as you put it was only because you were attacking us for not giving info that we literally couldn't give because Mastin is perma V/LA on weekends, and it just didn't sit well with me. It's possible I just had indigestion and read something into it that wasn't. I don't think there's any reason to carry on fighting about it. You have a bunch more info now, and I think enough to evaluate whether or not Mastin was justified in saying she had a very good plan to win.

You are conftown becuase you were modflipped and rezzed. Magua is probtown if you believe Mastin is town. I'm almost certain that we have bees on at least one scum who is now constrained from acting without giving himself away. I think we're in really good shape.

Also, I've already given my gut scumreads. This is a huge thread and making cases is a pretty huge task. If you want me to give you more than my gut reads, can you maybe be specific? I don't fancy going through 9200 posts again if you only care about what I think about 2 people or something.

[Drixx]

Is there any way to satisfy whomever wrote #9180 (aren't hydras supposed to sign their posts with which person wrote them?)?

There was nothing at all ranty about my last couple posts. I gave out info, I pointed out the thing that struck me as uncool before (attacking the lack of info when Mastin is on V/LA permanently for weekends). I even went so far as to say that I probably read more into it than was meant and that it was my bad.

You ask for information, so I give you information and offer to give you whatever other reads or information you would like, and you need only be specific ... and your response is to insult me, say that I'm illiterate, claim that I've "devolved" (a word that means I am less than human) into "hysteria" (what at all was not calm and rational about my last few posts?). Where's the rant in those posts?

In a single line you decided to call me illiterate, subhuman, mentally/emotionally unstable and then misrepresented me as icing on the cake. What on earth did I ever do to you?

[Drixx]

I'm probably just hypersensitive to things atm. It's probably more me than anything. I played a newbie game (now completed) where one of the players went outside of the newbie queue (as required by the rules) and people treated him like complete crap, way way over the top, and then in the newbie game when I said something with a little snark he unloaded on me and vented his entire frustration from it onto me. There's something else recently too that has me a bit on edge on this site.

I'm perhaps old fashioned, but I don't see any reason for attacking each other in a forum game. I know it's the internet and most people younger than I seem to be of the opinion that one should only foray into the internet fully prepared to endure anything that comes their way ... but I don't think there's any reason to leave civility behind. That's about all I have to say about that, I guess.

[Drixx]

I've been scum reading Vezok on gut reasons, but there's some things from earlier today that make me feel like I need to update my thoughts and maybe re-read the early part of the game again in his ISO.

ZeLink came across as super scummy early in yesterday's day phase. Skybird and TWIE are the other two that I suggested to Mastin might snare scum. I am town reading a couple slots because of the long inactive stretches they had. Given the three anti-town who got killed in the first two days, I don't think the remaining scum would just give up and go inactive. That's subjective and based upon my own feelings about mafia in general. I would never just abandon a game where I got assigned scum. I looked at those slots to see if either looked particularly scummy and maybe one of them was a scum just throwing the towel in but nothing stood out. I'm not sure how to remove my own personal bias from analyzing that particular bit. Like, there's nothing logical or rational about me feeling that way. All of the super lurkers from yesterday could be scum, rationally speaking.

This game just feels so big and unwieldy at the moment. Let me know if you want me to go diving into the thread to pull out the posts that pinged my scumdar with Skybird, TWIE and ZeLink, and I'll try and set some time aside after I'm done lecturing tomorrow to give you more than gut reads.

[Drixx]

I'm encouraged that our reads are partially in alignment, since Mastin gave the all clear on you. I'll try and go deep diving into the thread after classes are over tomorrow and come up with some useful quotes and thoughts. Send a rescue party if I don't surface by tomorrow night... this thread goes pretty deep.

[Drixx]

Thanks. As for scum in my neighborhood; while it's possible, it would mean both Mastin and ZZZX, because they co-ordinated the stuff that got our neighborhood trusting each other. I'm not God's gift to mafia, so I'm not dismissing that possibility, but I would look a lot of other places first. I think we have a pretty decent list of suspects to work through just between Magua and Your thoughts. You might not be right, but at least I know you're not trying to snowjob me.

[Drixx]

Blergh. Another day that's going to drag on forever? When did Lynch All Liars stop being a thing?

VOTE: TSO

[Drixx]

Not that I think I was asked, but three shot candidates:

1.) Vezok - I read him scummy. I get that he's doing something townie but can anyone honestly say they've never seen scum use an ability to masquerade in plain sight? His posts just ooze scum. Read and judge for yourself.
2.) Otolia - There's a slip from him today. It

could

just be confusion upon replacing into this game. Still, no real reason to say one thing that contradicts another when there's a pretty graphic that has the abilities stated on it in the role pm.
3.) Zelink - Yesterday's play looked an awful lot like scum trying to run the game.

----------------------------------

Just as a general food for thought question to everyone: This game is really dragging the last couple day phases. Not a whole lot of us are actively playing even every day. Where are scum likely to be found in this gamestate? Are they among the really active, the prodge level active, or just being lurksacks at this point?

[Drixx]

Yeah ... I don't expect a blanket statement to magically find the scum team. Let me see if this makes sense to you guys.

The game has been going on a long time. It's a complex game. Scum play involves creating a narrative that allows them to simulate being town while staying hidden and getting (or letting) the town to kill each other off. At this point, I would expect any scum who have been active participants to have some narrative threads that were started and then abruptly changed or were abandoned in light of game events. In order to avoid trying to read 9,200+ posts again to try and find that, I'm trying to sort and look where other indicators suggest I'm likely to find the inconsistencies I'm looking for.

Some people are really good at finding scum by looking at voting patterns. I look for the places where narrative and actions don't align, or where something happens and someone's reaction doesn't fit. It has been very useful for me, but I'm kind of intimidated by this thread size. I've already started a few times and just gotten brain fried. {For context, the site where I've played for years has a RECORD for longest thread, and it was like 1600 posts or something ... most games concluded well before 1,000 posts.}

So when I ask questions, you could laugh and say "Silly Drixx, you can't find the scum that easily" and I totally agree ... but that's not really the point of the question.

[Drixx]

Is that avatar from "The Last of Us", TWIE?

[Drixx]

I've been pretty free with my observations on who I see as scummy, pretty much in real time. I'm particularly good at going back and spotting things that don't make sense in light of new information.

As for Mastin and ZZZX ... it's like I said yesterday, I'd probably bet the game that they're town, but if they're not they're both not because the way our neighborhood came to trust each other was based upon things they devised. So yeah, I could sheep them. But really, just because someone is town doesn't make them right. It just means you can trust their motives. You know they aren't trying to deceive you. Sometimes we have a tendency in mafia to blindly follow people who we are sure are town (For me that list is Imp, Magua, Mastin, ZZZX at the moment), but the problem with that is that they could be quite well motivated but sincerely wrong.

But yeah, the odds are way in our favor at the moment magua. I'd hate to be looking back at these posts in like 5 or 6 day phases and regret that I didn't go digging for inconsistencies today.

[Drixx]

Given some of the roles we've seen ... I'm a little worried that a scum TSO could want to be lynched again. Magua is probably right and he's just super negative utility town, but I wouldn't rule out scum with some kind of trick up his sleeve or some reason behind the play.

I also wouldn't rule out TSO just being a lurksack scum who gave up on the game after the first couple of days.

[Drixx]

Is there any town explanation whatsoever for what Ollie is posting today? Like ... any?

[Drixx]

Can you reflect a kill to someone like Skybird claimed?

[Drixx]

So if he wants a vig shot, why not just say so? If he has some confirmation that TSO is scum, that might explain some things and make things click into place.

[Drixx]

Okay, so either a really clever fake claim or that's really townie looking. Almost all of the town roles that have flipped have vote related abilities. Also, BP on the town side seems probable given that the scum team originally had at least one steady extra kill on their team.

Skybird's claim is starting to look kinda shady to me. Skybird claims getting notified of an incoming ability (and what it is?) with the ability to let it through, block it or redirect it wherever? Add a little godfather flavor to that and you've got a recipe for a scum role that would make sense in power level with what we have on the town side.

Am I overthinking this or?

[Drixx]

Skybird, I'm totally cool if you want to point out a flaw in logic or something, but don't cherry pick or misrep me. I started my post by pointing out the possibility that it was a fake claim. We don't know the setup spec for this game, but we have seen quite a lot of flips, and a lot of the town has the ability to modify voting in some way or another. From what we know of spec, that fits (so it could be honest, or it could "fit" because it's a fake claim). I get that you want to discredit that post because I go on to point out that we know scum

had

a regular extra kill that they lost early and thus abilities that can stop kills on town side make sense. Abilities that let you re-direct anything that targets you to anyone else you choose; however, seem custom made for scum, especially with the vig shots that town has.

You claimed a role that can re-direct anything (investigate, vig shot, etc...) to whomever you want. In the context of what we know, that looks an awful lot more likely to be a scum ability than a town one. It struck me as a little odd when you claimed it, but then when we had a more standard kill block claim from another player and I started looking at the two claims in context of what we know about the spec, yours stood out as pretty scummy by comparison.

That, of course, assumes that you both claimed honestly.

[Drixx]

Yeah I'm pretty sure Skybird is scum. Town doesn't need to intentionally twist what someone is saying beyond all recognition. Let's go through the scum tells in just #9388 alone:

1.) I never said that all town roles had something to do with voting. There's a very clear difference between "a lot" and "all", but you are flailing now so you gotta exaggerate.
2.) I didn't say that your role was scummy because it lacked any vote impact power. That wouldn't make logical sense. Just because a lot of town roles have vote related powers doesn't mean that they all do (as can clearly be seen by the list of dead), nor does it imply that a town role must have something to do with votes. Interesting how you misrepresented my thoughts for the express purpose of pointing out again that your role does, after all, have vote related powers. You misrepresent my argument so that you can later say that the thing you claim I scumread you for not having is something you actually have. In effect, you have manufactured something I didn't say, pretended like I did, all so you could try and "clear" yourself. This is really really really scummy behavior on your part.
3.) Earlier you said that you had the choice to allow an ability through, block it, or redirect it to anyone you wanted. Now you are walking that back and making a general "my other abilities allow me to protect myself" statement. Re-directing is both a defensive and offensive utility. You can re-direct a vig shot to kill me, for example. You could re-direct an investigate to someone else so you don't get caught guilty.


The really sad thing is that for a fast minute there I was thinking that your re-direct ability could explain the odd scum kill choice. If they tried to kill you and you re-directed to Imperium, then it would seem way less odd. But you clearly said that you allowed whatever targeted you last night to go through (I went back and looked because for a moment I thought maybe you might have been targeted for a night kill and thus be pretty clear, but you were very clear that you didn't re-direct).

So yeah ... you just committed basically the cardinal sin when it comes to me. I make a rational argument using info we have and what people claim. If you see a problem with the logic, then you can point that out and I'll go back and try to figure out where I went off the rails. Instead, you chose to misrepresent me once. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and gave a more detailed walk through of what I was thinking, nothing that I was considering both you and Otolia. You then completely (and intentionally) put a whole bunch of words in my mouth that aren't anything remotely resembling what I said in an attempt to clear yourself.

unvote

VOTE: Skybird

Folks, I think we've got an honest to god scum here. You know what to do.

[Drixx]

To be fair, I commented on Otolia only really tangentally. I wanted to know if he could re-direct like Skybird or not. He said no. Then I got to thinking about what we've seen as far as confirmed abilities and concluded that Otolia could have faked that claim just from what we've seen on confirmed flips plus what Skybird said. I mean ... there's considerable discussion that he might get vig shot today. What better claim than he can activate BP and the shot won't work? Otolia is by no means clear ... but he didn't respond to my thoughts by trying to misrepresent them.

I'm totally open to rational discussion. If you see a problem then feel free to point it out.

This line of conversation began with me just speculating that the ability to choose whether to let an ability hit, gets blocked or re-direct it to someone else seemed like a role that would fit scum from what we've seen. That was just speculation on my part, trying to figure things out. Then Skybird started desperately flailing and misrepresenting me and just outright making shit up. It's the response that I'm reading as scummy.

Do you find that sort of reaction townie Zelink? Is there some reason you want to speak up for Skybird?

[Drixx]

Zelink ... I said that Otolia's claim looked like either a well crafted fake claim or legit because it lined up well with the flipped town roles we've already seen (noting in particular the many vote impacting abilities). I compared his straight up claim of block/bp (which could be just an attempt to keep the vig shot from being fired his way?) to Skybird's claim of being able to re-direct/let in/block anything that comes in. I speculated that being able to re-direct would make sense as a scum role.

Skybird then tried to say that I scum read her becuase town roles must have vote related skills and then proceeded to "remind" us that she has a vote related ult.

On what planet is that "Basically never happens when people say it's happening."?

Zel1nk and Skybird scum partners? Are you even bothering to read ZeL? This isn't exactly a complex back and forth here.

[Drixx]

Thanks for the smarmy insult. You're free to disagree ... but if you have to resort to insults, I think that speaks for itself. I'm off to sleep. Enjoy the night everyone.

[Drixx]

I don't understand why Drixx finds Otolia's claim townie really.

It's not an either/or choice between the two of them. Otolia's claim lines up really well with prior flips and claims. It also conveniently allows him to evade a vig shot that seemed at the time of his claim like it might be aimed at him. I didn't say that I found him townie ... I said his claim lined up. Wasn't the first thing I said something about it possibly being a fake claim? I'm pretty certain that it was the first possibility that occurred to me.

I can't really read Otolia because he is kinda lurksacking it and not responding to things. We could shoot him and see if his claim is true? If it is, no harm but if it's a fake claim to try and dodge a vig shot, maybe we score a scum kill?

As for Skybird, it's more the response (and spec that an ability to let something hit, block it or re-direct it, paired with the ability to nullify being lynched {claimed she totally would never do that though} kind of seemed particularly tailored for scum). I wasn't speaking another language or something when I pointed out that it was specifically that ability that concerned me, and yet Skybird tried to shift the entire conversation to be about whether or not town roles had to have vote modifying ability (which is absurd, since we have town flips who don't). I clearly never said that and it was very clear what I was speculating about Skybird's role. Her response is what was/is scummy more than just me speculating on the role claim.

Speculation is just speculation. People reacting with what looks like panic and start flailing to speculation, that sets of alarm bells to me.

[Drixx]

Mastin getting killed is almost certain a direct result of me giving out info that I shouldn't have yesterday. Mastin was worried I would get targeted because it looked like I hinted at myself having the unblockable kill. I felt like just keeping Mastin alive would be a guaranteed win (as you can see her abilities were quite good). We talked about whether or not to put our group protection on cooldown last night but I assumed the scum were likely to go after the Vezok/MS grouping more than us.

I'm mad at myself for even saying anything about it yesterday, because I don't think that scum realized that Mastin was really an automatic win condition until I explained it. I'm also irritated at my call about protection. I'm also trying to figure out why the kills went from seemingly aimless to nailing Mastin. Finally I'm paranoid about the Vezok/MS pairing. I can't decide if there is scum there or if scum are leaving them alive in hopes that the vig shots that MS has claimed he has will speed up the game and help them ... or both?

I need to go for a walk or something. I was really hoping for a dead scum as the sole flip and I'm pretty sure it's my fault Mastin is dead instead.

[Drixx]

Didn't they appear halfway through the day last time? It like happens at night and protects from kills or something, and lasts part way through the day. I'm unsure of the details. The last time it happened was before I replaced in.

You didn't see me expanding by a lot the info about what we had up our sleeves yesterday? I talked about the fact that we had reflective protection and that we have an unblockable kill ability. I also speculated that Mastin already had bees on scum and that it was potentially preventing them from acting freely (they would spread bees to new people if they roleblocked or something, for example).

I'd like to know why Ooba wanted us to mislynch TSO yesterday, btw.

We also have a fairly decent townblock forming. Magua is officially town with Mastin flipping. Her flip also confirms ZZZX to me. When Imperium gets back, he can weigh in on Espeonage (hopefully they actually talk and Imperium comes back with a solid read).

@Metal Sonic - Were you confirming that you are third party racist? You say you can win with the town ... what is your actual win condition?

[Drixx]

@Skybird - The big question mark about Vezok is why is he still alive? Scum are off randomly killing people like Imperium and leaving him alone. Until last night, none of the recent kills seemed to make sense at all.

[Drixx]

Well, between ZZZX and I there's a neat reflective protection (with an ability to multi-protect with a cooldown), and an unblockable kill, which has to be recharged but can be used more than once. So our plan was to find scum and execute them. The details on who did what were the part that wasn't really necessary to share. Bees were on so many people that maybe another day phase or two and I don't see how it would have been possible for scum to act at all without spreading bees. Mastin was keeping a list of potential targets to put bees on who she could clear and who would likely spread them to other targets she could check. She was on top of using it to maximum effect. The limitation was in figuring out why people ended up with bees on them that shouldn't have and in the one investigate per night.

[Drixx]

Then he must have left during the night, which Magua suggests is a town indicator?

[Drixx]

I'm open to a full claim today. I would like Metal Sonic to go first though, since he sort of confirmed that he's third party. I'd like to know his win condition and whether he was in a separate chat with the other Racist(s). Presumably mass claim time is come to {insert deity here} time for those folks yeah?

@Magua - If Metal Sonic is indeed another third party Racist, as some posts from yesterday seem to indicate, how does that impact your analysis? Also ... why do unprompted claims read as town to you? I've seen that a lot as a scum tactic to try and get town cred.

P-Edit: That's a pretty convincing post Magua. If MS is indeed third party, does that impact the expected scum remaining at all?

[Drixx]

If Vezok is scum and people he claims to protect come up scum and town ... doesn't that make his actions basically a crapshoot to try and read? This is kind of why I'm interested in Metal Sonic coming really close to just claiming third party late in yesterday's day phase. Mostly Vezok has just struck me in the gut for some reason. I did read a metric ton of posts when I replaced in though and that rushed reading could just be leaving me with a false feeling like his play was staged a bit.

[Drixx]

I try not to view someone as probtown because it would take what looks like a co-incidence from my viewpoint for them to be something else. There's too much that has gone on with abilities passing in the day and night that we don't know, and a lot of it from the early game we can't know but only speculate based upon the flip cards. ZeLink is spot on to avoid falling into a trap, although I think he's super misguided if he thinks ZZZX pulled a snowjob on both Mastin and me. {I'm more leaning on Mastin's rep there than my own}.

[Drixx]

Magua came up innocent. And yes she copped Imperium. Hindsight bias makes that seem bad because we saw Imperium flip and get resurrected.

[Drixx]

Oh right.

The n2 I forgot to cop someone.

She's flipped and confirmed. It's totally crappy that she didn't use the ability that night, but certainly she's beyond the point of being suspected for it yeah? Also doesn't seem like there's any point in mocking someone for an obviously unintentional site flake.


@ZeLink - I totally take the blame for Mastin being dead. I gave the info yesterday and it's easy to say today that it wasn't necessary, but just look at the end of yesterday where people were seriously talking about lynching us soonish. Mastin said to protect me last night for a specific reason which I'll share if ZZZX says I should in the neighborhood PT. We considered whether to use the ultimate protect but I misjudged the situation. I thought since the kill kept not coming our way and there was some heat starting to build up against us because of that, therefore we had a relatively safe night. I thought we would need the ultimate protection this coming night. We talked it through as a group, as we always do, and the protector made the decision and didn't post what the final decision was, as has generally been the case.

My thoughts were actually going in a different direction. I wanted to know who found out just yesterday that he got Bees as that would possibly indicate a need to kill Mastin where before the bees maybe weren't a problem. Also, one reason Mastin wanted to protect me was because when we gave out the info yesterday, we slipped. Anyone paying attention knows which of us has which abilities, because of how Mastin revealed the bees info. She viewed me as the likely target if scum were paying attention. I didn't think we would be targeted at all for the reasons I mentioned above.

[Drixx]

She's dead so we don't have results. The last post she made about who she was going to cop was TSO (if he survived) or Vezok. Presumably she copped Vezok.

[Drixx]

We talked about who to cop during the day. I suggested Metal Sonic but Mastin was pretty firm about clearing up TSO (because of the mystery bees I think) or Vezok.

I'm pretty certain Mastin put the bees info in this thread. If there's any days missing, let me know which and I'll check the neighborhood PT.

[Drixx]

We talked about everything (as you will be free to read post-game presumably). I don't think Mastin confirmed who she was copping because I don't think any of us expected her to die. Like, I didn't press to know the final target, but I'm not sure it would matter if I had. What matters is who we were trying to check and why. I'm pretty sure every action all game has been talked about in our neighborhood.

Mastin wanted to cop TSO because the bees on TSO were unexplained, but his flip with the bulletproof provides a clue. I've been marking down on my whiteboard who had bees when to see who could have given TSO bees, because that's possibly a kill attempt in light of his flip. The backup was Vezok because Mastin felt knowing his alignment would be the most helpful. I suggest Metal Sonic, but that was before MS made the post(s) late where he seems to admit being another Racist, but claimed to win with town.

If someone wants to help me figure out if TSO getting the bees could be a result of his BP eating a kill, that would be appreciated. Remember that the original interpretation was that TSO had visited someone and there was some talk of mod error, but looking at her card flip, it looks like someone going after TSO with an ability is what would explain him having Bees, not the other way around.

Does that make sense?

[Drixx]

@Magua - Bleh, I thought maybe that route would be helpful.

@ZeL1nK2 - I already told you that the final decision on protection was never posted in the neighborhood. So if the protector is scum, then Mastin could be killed at any time. If the other one of us were scum, we intentionally set it up so that there would be no way to safely target one of us if there was a really convincing traitor in our midst. The only thing we couldn't prevent was scum knowing who does the protecting, and if we had scum in our neighborhood, that person would presumably have died a long time ago since reflecting a kill is ridiculously dangerous to scum. When I told you that I completely trusted Mastin and ZZZX, it wasn't naivete on my part. The entire gameplan was worked out as flawlessly as possible.

[Drixx]

Counterpoint: They didn't kill mastin N2 or N3 despite (presumably) knowing that she was a cop.

I believe that he thinks either ZZZX or me is scum and that the neighborhood was compromised, and if his premise were true, scum would have at least known about the reflect. That's why I don't for a second think ZZZX is scum; if we were compromised, we would have gone down a long time ago.

[Drixx]

I think I've already talked about who I suggested every night since I've been in the game. I suggested TWIE and ZeL1nK two nights ago. Last night I suggested Metal Sonic as my primary suggestion. We also discussed Imperium, Vezok and Espeonage as targets. I did a quick ISO on Mastin to check the parts of the thread where that was being discussed, and I think that's everyone. Mastin seemed really sure that TSO was scum to the point where we almost decided to kill him yesterday.

I'm gonna wait for ZZZX to show up and check the neighborhood PT, and let him give his own thoughts on his input for investigation choices.

[Drixx]

VOTE: Vote Otolia

If anyone disagrees with lynching Otolia just just tell me who you'd rather have & I'll shoot them tonight & you vote for Otolia anyway.

Also can everyone tell me who I should mark for the lynch tomorrow & I'll mark whoever gets the most votes.

We'd get a shit load of info from all this as well.

We can collectively use my role as a weapon to win.

Didn't the prior player on this slot get his shot back when he fired at the tunnel thing? Ollie apparently didn't "get his shot back" despite claiming to have done the same thing. That doesn't make sense. Ollie shouldn't need us to vote for whomever he wants us to today in order to shoot tonight, but he does. That strongly implies that his shot last night wasn't actually at Espeonage or Imperium but actually directed somewhere else. What's the motive to lie?

[Drixx]

I'm sorry; I saw at the start of the day phase some reference to FourTrouble earlier shooting and getting his shot back or something. I assumed it was the same situation (shooting when Espeonage took someone out of the game) because of the context of the question, and the expectation that Ollie should get his shot back. I'm gonna quote those posts from the day start after this post so you can see what I was looking at.

[Drixx]

I shot Espeonage...

Espeonage - Fine. My preferred shot, really.

Yes, iirc, Dram posted that they can't be targeted by actions when in the "hidey-hole".

Yep, see dram post 995.

It was a matter of determining if Espeonage left during the Night, or at the end of the Night. I asked dramonic but he said I didn't know. Ollie's claim to shoot Espeonage suggests it was the former (during the Night).

Ollie, do you still have your shot?

So from what I gathered, the prior player (FourTrouble) tried to shot Andro when the same effect was triggered by Espeonage, and was refunded the shot. Ollie apparently was not refunded his shot. This doesn't make sense and I notice that I am confused.

@Drixx:

tbqh, I do not like Zelink's "I do not think Mayans are all town, but I don't think either of them are scum"

I wanted to investigate ZeL1nk for awhile. Today's mass suspicion just looks super scummy, especially when He refuses to be specific, even when prompted. His response to your prompt was to mock you.

[Drixx]

It is too hard to understand, because nothing has changed for the past oh, fuck, I don't know, month, except for TSO dying and mastin dying.

Previously you've been "eh, neighborhood" and that's it. Now it's time to stop that.

If you don't actually have any scumreads because you haven't been reading at all, then fucking say so and spare me the outrage of you being called out for not having any scumreads on pg 388.

I don't think he's around at the moment. There's a short post from him earlier in the neighborhood, and I've got some speculation and thoughts there for him to look at. It takes a few assumptions but the timing of Mastin getting killed may be useful for PoE. As annoying as TWIE has been with his schtick, He wasn't wrong to think things through and be suspicious of the timing. It's natural to first consider a rat in the neighborhood, but I'm very convinced that ZZZX isn't and he's convinced I'm not.

His paranoia got me thinking about some possible reasons for the timing, since I felt like the Vezok/MS pair or Ollie or Imperium would have been higher priority targets. I put my thoughts on implications into the neighborhood and hopefully ZZZX gets back soon so he can add his thoughts and answer a few questions I asked and weigh in on whether my assumptions and speculation make sense. I will also poke him to post his thoughts here because I totally get the whole "you don't have reads by page 388????" thing.

[Drixx]

You don't seem to care about trying to figure out which one is scum

Because what? I'm not asking them questions?

I don't need to actively question someone to try to figure them out. I have eyes. I can read.

I'm sorry. Maybe I should take your oh-so-helpful approach.

Hey Drixx. Is Magua scum or town?

Hard-hitting question right here.

Magua is conftown, with the edge case of investigation immunity. It's not exactly a difficult question, which is your point, yes?

Did you happen to work out which ability belongs to ZZZX and which to me yet? The info I gave combined with the info Mastin gave was enough to work it out, which is part of why Mastin was paranoid I was going to get killed last night.

If you have worked out which of us have the ability, then just a couple questions for you (and TWIE):

If the protector/reflector is scum, why wasn't Mastin or the Unblockable dead long before now?
If the Unblockable is scum, why wasn't the protector/reflector dead a long time ago to leave Mastin vulnerable at will? {That ability is particularly dangerous to the scum, which is a huge part of why we've been secretive about it}

Just about the first thing that went through my mind when I saw Mastin dead was to wonder if I was wrong about ZZZX, but it just doesn't make sense to me for that to be the case. I know he hasn't said a lot or been particularly productive in the thread, but I cannot imagine him flipping scum.

[Drixx]

There are also a whole bunch of possibilities for how scum could take Mastin out safely if they felt it was time to do so, without any fear of the reflect. What we have seen as far as town abilities this game isn't exactly underpowered, so why are we positing a helpless scum team? Is it possible that Mastin suggesting we protect me last night got passed to the scum team and they killed her? Sure ... but why not the night before? She was paranoid that I would get targeted the last two nights, so why would the posited rat need to wait?

I think the scum team has to be stronger than most people seem to think. The fact that Mastin or me didn't die much sooner suggests to me that ZZZX has a very low probability of being scum. I find something like a limited use strongman or a roleblock (the protector is obvious to anyone who has looked at what Mastin and I said, but only if you caught one small thing she slipped and said) to be much more plausible. Consider the roles we know about and tell me the scum team is unable to strike whomever they want at will?

Why do you think I've been viewing Vezok as scummy? It makes zero sense in a game with this many strong roles for the scum team to be unable to just reach out and kill him at will.

I also view my neighborhood composition, along with Ollie having unlimited vig shots (as long as he can get us to lynch whomever he wants), Metal Sonic presumably having multiple shots, and some of the other roles that are coming from people claiming all as very strong reasons to posit a pretty strong set of abilities on the remaining scum. That's not the first time you've argued that our neighborhood has strong abilities as an argument against the neighborhood being scum free, but that's a self defeating argument.

Everyone in the game has a role that's powerful in combination with others. Your argument is the mirror to the argument that there's likely one scum in every neighborhood. It would be a ridiculous game break if there weren't one or two neighborhoods without scum, and I don't see why ours is somehow ineligible to be one of those.

Could I be wrong? Yep. There are way too many possibilities to know for sure what happened. I just don't see any reason why scum would not have killed Mastin sooner if they had the info available in our neighborhood PT. I'm even more confused why I am still alive if ZZZX is scum. I've got the most dangerous ability, imo. That's a big part of why Mastin wanted me protected.

[Drixx]

Logically speaking, if there's only three scum left, there would have to be at least one (or two, if Otolia is scum) all-town neighborhoods so it's not an "in theory" thing. And that's assuming no scum double-ups in hoods (not counting AP as "scum" for the purposes of this). I have theories about who the all-town neighborhood/s would be, but nothing I'd bet the game on - I do, for example, currently believe Espy to be town.

Espy has full-claimed as far (as I can tell). I full-claimed everything except certain conditions on a previous day, and I claimed the conditions required to activate certain abilities I have last night because the conditions have now been met.

So you don't see a problem with your neighborhood being all town?

What makes you think 3 scum left? Would MS being another Racist impact that thinking?

Also, if the supposition that Mastin was killed last night because she was posing a threat to the scum that she wasn't posing previously, then that puts Espy on the short list as one of the most recent to get bees. Why should I trust your personal read on Espy (presumably based in part on things in your neighborhood PT) more than you trust my read of ZZZX and his of me? You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too here.

[Drixx]

Fair enough. I'm pretty sure that scum picked up on it and it's not doing much use talking around each other, so here goes:

ZZZX protects/reflects and I got bees when he protected me two nights ago. We intentionally gave the impression he had multi-protected so we could keep it open for future use (And this is why I said that generally only the protector knows since two nights ago we all knew I was being protected). Mastin slipped when she pointed out that she knew why I got bees, because there was no reason to say that. It made it clear who was the protector (since I was visited by someone swarmed) and her pointing it out as something she knew defeated the attempt to give the impression we had used the multi-protect ultimate. The fact that she slipped was one of the reasons we felt pretty safe and neither Mastin nor I saw a need to use the big protect last night. We figured the scum caught the slip, would know that ZZZX was the protector and would assume we were gonna use the ult last night instead, so we both suggested not to use the ultimate. Mastin was pretty adamant that ZZZX protect me, and as has generally been the case, ZZZX decided what to do himself. Presumably he'd have said if he protected Mastin instead of me when he posted earlier, as that would be super helpful information, but all he said about it in the neighborhood was that he was sorry and he should have used his ultimate.

I don't believe that I have any direct evidence that ZZZX can actually protect and redirect; however, I believe his claim and I believe he's town, based upon what my neighborhood did early on and the fact that I trust Mastin's judgement. Plus he's kind of OTAF in the neighborhood PT. Ergo I'm pretty certain that our neighborhood is indeed scum free. I totally get where you're coming from, but co-incidence doesn't imply causality. Sometimes good things happen co-incidentally (like those early kills you pointed out of powerful non-town roles), and sometimes bad things happen co-incidentally. If there is a specific reason scum felt like they had to kill Mastin last night, that's likely what will help find them. I've already dumped my stream of consciousness speculation on whether investigation pool or recent bees acquisition may have forced scum to move against her last night into the neighborhood and I'm waiting for ZZZX to weigh in and help me sort through what makes sense and what doesn't. That speculation will make its way here in the next day or so once we've talked about it and I can clean it up from stream of consciousness into a post outlining my thoughts clearly. I'm still thinking through things and reading parts of the thread and noting down on my whiteboard when each person got the bees, who was being suggested for investigation each night, etc... so I can try and see if there's clues in this thread (and the neighborhood PT)* that might tie the timing to a specific person.

* - Just because I'm convinced ZZZX is not scum doesn't mean I'm going to put blinders on and stop using my brain. If there's a compelling case to be made that scum moved last night because of info only in the neighborhood PT, I'll be bringing it up here, and I'm pretty sure ZZZX would do the same. I'll feel like a moron but feeling dumb in time to win is a lot better than feeling dumb when it's too late.

That said, the first thing I thought about when I saw the day opening and Mastin's card sitting there was the reasons why our neighborhood trusted each other. I just don't see the logic of ZZZX as scum. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my hat.

[Drixx]

I finally went and looked, and Metal Sonic was active in another game about 10 hours ago. I'm now suspicious that he hasn't checked in or answered the questions. I mean ... he pretty much claimed third party and said he could win with the town, so why dodge?

[Drixx]

I win with the town

That's the post I'm referring to. I thought my questions were pretty simple.

1.) Since you're not town, MS, what are you?
2.) Do you have a PT with the other third party(s)?

And totally agree with Magua on the time for fullclaim part.

[Drixx]

If you know something for a fact, doesn't it make sense to share it? Like I've been dumpster diving in the thread for the last couple hours looking at stuff and if you have some actual 100% knowledge that someone is clean and you're withholding it just so you can taunt Magua, that's pretty shitty man.

[Drixx]

You've spent a large portion of the game pushing and advocating for the deaths of players I think are most likely town. And now it's my turn, apparently.

Nothing brings me greater joy than annoying you and making fun of you for it.

Erm ... Wut?


Also ... tired of the dodging: VOTE: MetalSonic

We (as in my neighborhood) have strong reason to believe that MS is lying about being a third party able to win with the town. He might be a third party, but it's quite unlikely he's a third party able to win with town. This is already probably semi-obvious to most people as AP was self aligned, but whatevs.

[Drixx]

I win with the town

That's the post I'm referring to. I thought my questions were pretty simple.

1.) Since you're not town, MS, what are you?
2.) Do you have a PT with the other third party(s)?

And totally agree with Magua on the time for fullclaim part.

I am town
I am town

thank you?

I totally misunderstood what you were claiming. Can't blame me for being paranoid. I am also curious what the heck a "Fragilizer" is...

Unvote

[Drixx]

---

So since Magua asked, I'm Odin the Allfather

• My ult
  Ring of Spears
  is the double-voting and resource harvester.
  
• I have an activable BP called
  Raven Shout
  for a day.
  
• I have a passive based on my ring of spears stack.

This is the full claim. If the passive is Reflexive Roleblock, I could maybe see town motivation for hiding that. The missing double-vote in the name seems odd.

I just went through the flip cards in Dram's ISO, and I see a few role names that don't convey everything the character does. It seems questionable that double vote would be left out, but no flipped player seems to have more than 2 parts to his role name.

Possible? Probably. Plausible? I'm not really sure. Would reflexive roleblocker make sense for scum? It would block investigates I think, but they would get no result instead of a not guilty right? Wouldn't that effectively make that a bad ability for scum?


P-Edit: I see ZeL1nk already answered about it being possible for that role to match up with the claim.

[Drixx]

@Magua - I know you are conftown, but you're killing me with the jumping the gun and the over the top attacks today man.

[Drixx]

Over the top attack is because I want to win this game, there are multiple slots in the game that are essential blanks to me, I really felt like I had to push and hound for anything besides stagnation to happen D4 and D5, and all TWIE and Zelink do is throw shit in my face. I'd rather TWIE and Zelink be more with the helping and less with the shit throwing.

I think your read on me is a joke. I don't even care if people scum-read me (Drixx has been doing so for a while, though I've yet to see anything other than "you're scummy" materialise in terms of reasoning). But you're scum-reading me for... a drop in activity or something. Yeah. Woo. This is after you chain-lynched players I thought were town despite my protests. TSO was being legitimately useless and there was a whole bunch of circumstantial evidence that pointed to him being scum (to the point that you were basically calling him too scummy to be scum). Anamikus? No. Other than "lurking", I guess, but there was also evidence pointing towards him being town. Heartless? No. I mean, he used his role in a controversial way and that was it.

Anything I say about you is purely coming from a place of not wanting to deal with you. I do not particularly care if this bothers you. I don't value your opinion on the game. I would rather not interact with you if I can help it. So I'm not going to from now on unless I see a point in doing so.

My scumread on you is just gut. The role you have looks kind of scary but I'm willing to wait till the halfway point so your neighbors can confirm what you claimed to them. If I had anything more than your posts rubbing something the wrong way, I'd have quoted things that were scummy and done more than light FoS you.

[Drixx]

I'd really like to get ZZZX's thoughts and see what Espe and Imperium say before forming that opinion fully Ollie. For the record, I'm still of the opinion that ZZZX is town, but he hasn't said much today in the neighborhood. He clarified something for me which I was hoping would have a different answer, but that's about it so far.

And Magua I think that's the point ... a bunch of people who are in or near the town block are on the wagons. The problem with VCA is that it doesn't account for context. Since I happened to be dumpster diving through this thread again, I re-read the last 35 pages of day one, a large portion of which happened over the last hour or so of the day as the timer was running down, a few replacements came in really late, people were going nuts at each other, and the AP lynch came together basically because it was either lynch him or start day 2 in the same state of irritation/uncertainty. {In fact, the predominant reasoning that got people to go onto the wagon was that not lynching him would just be a complete and total waste of that first 3 weeks}.

The context of that lynch makes VCA on it essentially useless in the traditional sense, yeah?

@P-Edit - I agree Magua, but I don't expect we will even get everyone to post in that timeframe, let alone get them all to agree.

[Drixx]

I can't imagine that they would all be off that wagon. I'm not trying to dismiss evidence that points to a couple people I've read as scummy. I still am a bit concerned with Skybird having a role that lets her re-direct abilities at whomever she wants (seems like a really good way to protect from the vig shots) and that she also said would let her stop herself being lynched. The latter may or may not be true, but it was the way she claimed it with the added "but I would totally never do that" that bothered me.

Are we just lynching Otolia because of Ollie? I thought Otolia's stand-in player responded really transparently to the questions about his role when MS popped in with the shot and rolecop results. How did you read that ZeL1nK?

Also, when I was reading through earlier parts of the game again, it jumped out at me that almost everyone has scum read ZZZX at one point or another. How much of that early part of the game is influencing your thoughts today? More to the point, how much stock should I put in the early part of the game? Since we're kind of stalled until Espe/Imp get back, I've been re-reading and trying to update my thoughts on everyone.

[Drixx]

ZZZX was cleared by Mastin. The only edge case where he's scum is if there's investigation immunity at play, and that's the only wedge of doubt. I see that one of posts could have been interpreted as more than just paranoia about that edge case, but that's all there is. I'm just frustrated because RL has him busy and I'm trying to talk through what to do with him and he doesn't have a lot of time.

[Drixx]

The frustration is more that he's never had a lot of time. It's not a recent thing.

Yeah. It's frustrating because I'm trying to figure out how we can use our abilities to maximum effect and I really want his thoughts on some of the rough things I was thinking about, since he's as confirmed as you are via Mastin. I'm just frustrated with the game at the moment. I feel like we're sitting around waiting for Imp/Espy to get back. I can't get people to really invest into a game coming up on 10k posts (I can hardly get replies from some people), and I can't figure out a good way to get my reads better without getting people to talk more. Can't get someone to slip up without getting them talking first.

[Drixx]

Wow I'm dumb. I had to go look at the neighborhood PT and read the early part again. I could have sworn that she vouched him because of HER first actions, not his. I'm going to re-read it closely and re-evaluate my prior assumptions. I don't think it changes much, because there was a lot of reason to trust ZZZX from the early part of the PT and game, plus Mastin made a pretty compelling logical case early in the PT for our neighborhood trusting each other, and she's conftown via death flip. Doesn't make her prescient or anything, but yeah. I'll be back after I've had time to read carefully and make sure I didn't misread anything else.

For the record: Unless I come back and say something like "Wow, I have no actual reason to believe ZZZX is town except that he had the opportunity to kill Mastin any time he liked so why last night?", please don't assume me misreading the way our neighborhood confirmed each other as me wavering on my vouch for him. I had to read like 6k total posts when I replaced in or something batshit crazy like that. Unlike some others here *cough*, I actually read this shit when I came into the game.

[Drixx]

Holy crap I've been in this game for almost two months. It's like a part of my life now.

[Drixx]

Why didn't you ask that yesterday? If you wanted us to lynch one of the claimed (and now confirmed by MS) bulletproofs, wouldn't Skybird's ability to just reject a lynch (presumably on a cooldown) and re-direct a shot to wherever she likes be the scummier of the two?

I'm not really sure I'm on board with the whole trust your judgment thing. Someone we think is town is scum, and you're rising up that list like a rocket.

Also, today is a special day for me, so I'm out for the rest of it. Try not to get into too much trouble.

[Drixx]

It shows what your reads are worth if I'm rising up your scum list just because I never went for your preferred option, despite my slot being confirmed as having shot scum. btw I picked one of the two who had the most heat the previous day at night (dramonic only answered my PM quoting Magua's post which was made at the end of the day asking when I marked, after the day was over).

& lol @ you not trusting my judgement, not asking you to. I shot Magua's top scum read (confirmed town & the most invested in the game). & I'm asking for consensus on who I should mark & shoot. I've no interest in having the main say in the game. My role should be used as a collective town weapon against scum; to kill them & gain info that could implicate them.

Your response just makes you look worse. Who gives a shit if you shot a scum? What scum team wouldn't trade one member for getting another conftown? Here you are parading yourself like you're some kind of leashed serial killer. You say you should be used as a collective weapon just after being an asshole when I questioned why you didn't give the town any say before. Contradictory much?

[Drixx]

cases are scummy

ok. let me ask drixx:

Drixx, do you trust if ZZZX is town for sure?

Yes. I reviewed the PT and came away with no reason to change my belief. If we shoot him or lynch him we lose his protective reflect which the scum cannot predict who will be protected (unless he's informing them, which doesn't logically make sense given him as protector... he could have just let Mastin die after people had started trusting her vouch on him. Waiting this late into the game just makes it seem like Mastin was a huge threat and brings scrutiny to him which is a terrible strategy and makes no logical sense).

Do I have a few edge cases? Yep. Paranoia is healthy in mafia. I can think of an edge case for where Magua might be scum even though Mastin gave a clear investigative result and is confirmed in having the power to do so. But edges cases are just that; things to be aware of in the end game but generally not something to act on prior.


As for shooting/marking ... can we wait until Espeonage and Imperium get back? That might change my thoughts a lot.

[Drixx]

As Mastin stated earlier in the game, we don't generally talk about things in the neighborhood unless it's to clarify, discuss ability usages, or to flesh out something we want to say in the game but wanted an opinion from each other first, or some ideas bounced back and forth. So our PT is claims and planning and rough drafts of stuff that comes to the main thread. We didn't see the point of talking about stuff there that would never come here; even the things we kept under wraps for most of the game were always intended to be shared, including a little bit about how my mechanics work that hasn't been discussed yet, mostly for fear that the scum team might have some way to neutralize my big ability.

I don't believe we talked about Imperium resurrecting at all. That isn't really the sort of thing we talk about. Since Mastin died we haven't spoken too much, but really all there was to do was confirm who was being protected, clarify a few questions I had and then the stuff I said which I'm sure ZZZX will respond to once he is caught up with the game. Once he has, I'll be making a post with my own thoughts, impacted by anything he points out that I missed or had a logical error in. I think that if Mastin was killed out of necessity, it may be possible to figure out why. Hopefully ZZZX will lend his mind to evaluating my rough thoughts and we'll bring that into the thread. Ideally I'd like to do that tomorrow after ZZZX sleeps and catches up.

I think the most accurate description of our PT today, Magua, would be me putting up a lot of thoughts while ZZZX has made shorter posts answering questions I asked. The first post from him was just a simple apology and acceptance of blame for Mastin dying. It was probably the most town post I've seen all game from anyone. It wasn't played up or anything. If I could quote from there, I would do so.

[Drixx]

Disagree. Also LOL @ MetalSonic trying to call me scum without having the balls to just say it. I've been trying to figure out how to evaluate Otolia and Skybird's similar claims since they came about. They both claimed very similar roles and it seems unlikely for those to both be true claims and also both be town, yes? I also despise it when people do shady shit like cherry picking a tiny part of something to try and make it seem like someone lied when that someone didn't. That's scumplay or shitty town play, and I'll call it out and defend the target of it every single time.

If I had to bet the game right this moment, I would say that Skybird's claim is the likely scum between the two. If I'm wrong and Otolia flips scum or Skybird flips town, I'll gladly spit on his grave and apologize to her. Until I know for sure, it's just my best evaluation of what I know.

Yeah, come at me bro. How about we talk about your shady ass for a second? You intentionally misled the game into thinking you were a third party. I'm starting to seriously think that you made that JOAT bullshit up, and the third party deception was a gambit. You set up the expectation that you'll claim a third party role that wins with town, and then make a JOAT claim as town and you're all like "psyche!" ... but we have zero confirmation of anything other than your ability to kill occasionally and that you came up with some role names. Gee guys ... ever seen a scum role that can find out what role people have?

The sheer idiocy on display in this game sometimes is beyond shocking.

[Drixx]

Without having complete information, we can speculate endless possibilities. We aren't going to win by trying to outguess the setup here. The very unfortunate reality is the need to sink time into reading people the old fashioned way. This thread has already sucked away a significant amount of hours in the week this day phase has been going on.

[Drixx]

The problem with that is it's just WINE Skybird. I can't know and that's exactly what a scum or a town you would say.

You both claimed bulletproof as your primary role. You claimed to be able to re-direct any incoming ability to someone else, to block it or to let it through, and also added that you could give us the middle finger if we wanted to lynch you, but you

totally

wouldn't do that. How in the world do you not realize you both having bulletproof puts you in the same category of major power, and how can you really have made that claim and not realize how obviously scummy it sounds?

At this point, the fact that you claimed it so openly is the main thing that puts you as a townread, but I have this nagging doubt that you claimed to get town points, especially the part where you made a show about how we could lynch you and you could block it but you would totally never do that.

[Drixx]

Wrong! I never claimed bulletproof. TWIE said I was bulletproof, not me. He was wrong about that.

You can block and incoming ability or redirect it. How is that not a superpowered form of bulletproof? And yes, you are catching on that I'm operating from memory a lot of the time. This thread is massive. I can't go spend an hour spelunking in it just to make sure everything is exactly precise. I know what I remember and I don't need to go searching the thread to make sure I don't screw up. You even pointed out that another player categorized you as a bulletproof, but somehow feel like it's some egregious thing that I do the same? I don't recall you previously objecting to the generalization of your role in this way.

You seem to be a bit of a hybridized version of ZZZX, except that you can only protect yourself with it. When comparing claims, I'm trying to figure out what utility makes sense.

ZZZX can protect others and redirect if he chooses (but he has to specify whether or not to do so and to whom when he submits his action, I believe). This strikes me as likely to be town utility in the game based upon what we know.

You protect yourself and get to choose when something targets you if you want to let it through, block it or redirect it, and you can stop a lynch. That seems like a very likely scum utility role in a game with lots of extra killshots available and a notable frequency of vote related abilities being given to town.

But ... setup speculation only goes so far. I don't know the whole setup so I cannot make the whole puzzle fit and figure out how all the roles are balanced. As we see more and more of them, I can make better assumptions, but in the end that's all they are. As I said previously, you got a whole lot more scummy looking for your defensiveness than you did if you had just dismissed my speculation as what it is: speculation.

[Drixx]

The flaw with that plan is if a couple scum are in the top townreads. We have two publicly conftown players and I cannot imagine them living much longer. Scum would have to be stupid to leave them alive. Any of the remaining scum among the stronger town reads will cost us the game if we just follow that sort of strategy.

[Drixx]

I'd like to start lynching Otolia, shooting Metal. I'm not sure who I'd like to mark after that: if Metal flips scum, then we're chainlynching brain afterwards obviously but I think the game will be done at that point anyways. If Metal flips town, I'm not really sure I want vezok's death next

Here's the problem with Vezok. He got "conftowned" to a lot of people by early action. People are vouching for him. What does he do with his safe status? He just lurks and avoids putting any real content into the game which might harm his position as being widely town read. I couldn't put my finger on why my gut kept telling me scum when I read his posts until I asked myself why on earth we didn't have him posting reads and trying to keep the game moving forward. The obligation of anyone who ends up being viewed as prob/conftown is to help keep the game moving forward with town running things.

[Drixx]

Thank you to whichever of you had the good sense to agree with me. For a minute there it looked like everyone was going to lemming into a suicidal plan.

[Drixx]

Even supposing those are all correct, and even supposing such a plan would force scum to make kills to get themselves higher up the list ... going with such a plan gives scum the chance to manipulate the hell out of us. I am very wary of committing to a long term strategy that the scum have full ability to influence and manipulate. The more I think about it, the more I think this is going to come down to finding the scum the old fashioned and very difficult way; re-reading portions of the thread to find the inconsistency in the narratives the scum have had to maintain for months now. I mean, I replaced into this game more than halfway through the posts, and I've been in nearly 2 months now.

I'm going to just start from the scummiest reads I have and go spelunking in the thread and see if I can find the inconsistencies. They are inevitable, especially in a game with this many posts. I would encourage Imperium and Magua both especially to consider doing the same with me. You guys are conftown and what you find will be the most valuable possible reads. If I don't make it back in a couple days, someone send a search party, okay? {A little levity never hurts}.

[Drixx]

How was ooba drowning in town cred? He's a fking lurk sack with 0 reads in thread. If it wasn't for the Rez he would be my top scumread

That reminds me of something that confused me. How did he manage to resurrect someone after they flipped? I could see an ability that lets you choose to resurrect whomever gets killed ... but one that lets you choose to do it after seeing who it is and what abilities they have? o.O

[Drixx]

Drixx, are there some conditions around your vig shot that prevent you from shooting whenever you want or is there a reason you haven't used it yet (and haven't shown any intention of using it tonight)?

Reiterating, in case it gets lost

I missed it as I was reading in the thread for awhile. Yes there are conditions to my ability. There's ample reason for me to keep it to myself until I'm ready to use it. No reason to give the scum free info, especially whilest ZZZX remains alive and coming for me could literally be suicide. They just have to sit there and wait for me to make my move. I kind of wish I had used it earlier and started recharging it as I might have been able to squeeze a second usage; however, our plan as a neighborhood was to find scum, have me kill it and lure the scum into killing themselves on ZZZX's ultimate by implying I could do it again right away. That kind of went a bit out the window with Mastin dying and the heavy suspicion on ZZZX.

That brings me to the logical conclusion I came to with ZZZX: if scum kill me then either he's scum or they have an ability to bypass his protection. I trust him enough to trust his protection.

[Drixx]

As a side note, I would put a lot of scrutiny on the Zel1nk neighborhood. We have a confirmed town there. We also have a claim that their PT is nearing 1000 posts, and that bothers me a bit. We had a pretty decent amount of strategizing to talk about in our PT with the plan to lure scum into killing themselves whilest also finding and killing scum. That stuff didn't need to be in the thread for scum to see, and even with that, our PT is like 20% of the size.

What's the town motivation for so much talk there and so much lurking and fluff posting in the main thread here? Why do you refuse to answer questions about what "Fragilizer" means? It doesn't sound good. Why are you attacking ZZZX for low production while you're hardcore chainsawing for a super lurksack in your own neighborhood? If you read what you're saying and doing and pretend it is someone else, and you are honest, you would admit that you would be so far up that hypothetical self's rear end that you could floss for him.

[Drixx]

I really don't want to fight with you Zel1nk. Aside from you, I feel like the only person in the game who is still actually engaged and trying to figure shit out.

And yes, it's hypocritical as hell for you to be protecting Espy (who still hasn't posted today) and swearing he's town while you have spent most of the day going after ZZZX, when ZZZX has more than twice as many posts in his ISO.

[Drixx]

I must have misunderstood what you were saying about him.

Do you recall who has declined to claim? My brain is a bit mush after spelunking in the thread.

[Drixx]

Nice Tables. I'm Chaac, God of Rain. My ult is called Storm Call. It's not precisely a vig shot, but that's the closest analogue to what it is without divulging the entire thing. I'll be happy to do so after I Call that Storm.

[Drixx]

It seems that most of us are willing to lynch Otolia in order to give another shot. His posts and the posts of the player who played for him for awhile seemed super genuine to me, so I'm not sure we're going to get any more than another vig shot out of lynching him. I suppose that will at least speed the game up and if our protectors are all indeed town, then we should be able to narrow down scum super fast.

It might actually be useful to have Skybird swap Otolia. We can just re-vote him after and that confirms her claim yeah? Swapping a single vote is different than moving all the votes on a player.

I want to clarify something. Please see post #9144, where I first gave info about our neighborhood abilities. It seemed useful to let the scum think I have a traditional vigilante shot so I haven't corrected that assumption before now, but you will see there that the claim was always spot on to what I actually do. If I vote for someone and use my ultimate on them, they cannot in any way avoid their lynch. It can't be blocked, redirected, have votes moved or anything.

I don't think attentive scum would have missed that, so either we have scum who just aren't reading the game {possible/probable?}, or they were afraid to ask me to clarify for fear of drawing attention. ZeL1nK picks up town points for appearing to town slip by assuming vig when I clearly said super hammer and compared it to an unblockable vig shot, and then later wondering why I hadn't used it or talked about who I would use it on. The plan originally was for me to demonstrate it once we found scum with Bees. The best laid plans and all that, I guess.

This ability is why I almost immediately suspected Skybird from the moment she claimed. Her reaction just reinforced the gut feeling I got that what I do is a counter to what she does. I know some people think the roles were all given and then alignments added randomly, but as a SMITE player, the roles we've seen flip match very well with how the game plays. AP {Fenrir}, in particular, makes me suspect that the roles are specifically assigned into the appropriate factions. So me having the counter to her ability seems to me like fairly good reason to suspect her.

[Drixx]

Well, Drixx, if you think it's possible to figure out alignment from flavor names, since everyone's claimed their flavor name, why not figure out the alignments?

I've already done some speculation on what kind of roles I expect to see town have. Setup spec isn't my specialty. The defining characteristic of Fenrir in SMITE is that he is a lone wolf. Good players using him spend a lot of time accumulating xp in the jungles and usually roam between lanes getting behind enemies and ambushing them. The role given to that character this game fits perfectly.

I think god name claims compared to roles probably could be useful. A lot of the role claims we have could be true and be either alignment though. I only suspected Skybird on setup spec because my ability seems to counter hers. That's super weak evidence if it manages to rise above pure speculation at all.

[Drixx]

So, if your ult is an infinite vote.

How do you feel about my role potentially countering yours then?

I didn't say it was an infinite vote. That was speculation on ZeL's part. Is there an upside to full disclosure here? I'd rather use it and draw a night kill than draw a night kill before I use it. Telling scum exactly how it works seems like a poor choice.

[Drixx]

Wall of OMGUS much?

[Drixx]

Throwing out the baby with the bath water a bit there Zel.

[Drixx]

ZeL1nk ... you're an idiot. Sorry, but it needs to be said. You do all this speculation and think you're god's gift to this game or something when you're too stupid to ask the obvious questions. It would be literally impossible for me to use my ability in LYLO due to how the charge mechanic works. Now that you've stripped my entire utility bare and I have much less choice of drawing a night kill, is there anything else you want to fuck up?

Can we please lynch this asshole now? He admits he has more posts in his neighborhood than in the main thread. {Why is he hiding things?} ... and he wants to destroy roles and force the game into a vanilla state to make it easier for scum to win. Like ... this guy is seriously shady in the last day or so.

[Drixx]

That's a frustration post. I'm sorry if you don't like it. The last I checked there are two confirmed town players, and ZeL1nk isn't one of them. He's attempting to destroy roles. That's not town behavior.

[Drixx]

can we massclaim tomorrow?

Go talk to the people who didn't already claim.

[Drixx]

My abilities work similar to how Mastin's did (seems to be a theme of our pantheon). During the day I can mark two people of my choice. In order to use my super lynch (my vote + the ability usage ... it does NOT infinite vote ... it just stops the person from doing anything to avoid the lynch), I need X people alive with charge so I can Call the Storm. That's why I am fairly sure I can't use it in LYLO. There's a very low probability edge case where I could be in a LYLO situation and use it, but it would be pretty surprising if we go through the necessary futility to result in me being in a LYLO situation that could also have enough players alive to power the storm.

[Drixx]

I'd rather not be turned into a bullet thanks.

[Drixx]

What does that mean, exactly?

If you're expressing dissatisfaction on using your power tomorrow:

What utility does holding onto it bring to town?
How does it hurt the town if used tomorrow as opposed to whenever you plan on using it?

Ooba suggested making me tomorrow's lynch, which is basically a mechanic to give ollie another shot, ergo the being made into a bullet comment.

I'm fine using my ability today even, if that's useful. My particular ability is to overcome powers like Skybird has, so I really only held onto it in case she drew suspicion from anyone besides me. As I said a few posts back, it's super unlikely that I could use it at endgame due to the necessity of having people alive to act as lightning rods, for lack of a better way to describe it. In a 4v3 LYLO, I could use it, but 4v2, 3v2, 3v1, 2v1 situations are all ones where it is impossible to use.

That makes sense, I think, but it makes me wonder all the more about Skybird. Auto win conditions should be impossible in the end game, imo.

[Drixx]

I think this is a good time to re-visit neighbourhoods

CHINESE :

Metal

, Skybird, TWIE
NORSE:

The Mask

, Ace,

AP

MAYAN: Xombie, ZZZX,

Mastin

ROMAN:

Imperium

,

Solar

, Bitmap, TD
HINDU:

Pere

,

Farside

,

FT,

Anamikus

GREEK: Magua, Vezo,

Beast

,

TSO

EGYPTIAN:

ooba

,

ceph

,

heartless

,

andy

Revisited the MS wagon before he took his shot.

Metal Sonic (7): Heartless, The Mask, Cephrir, PeregrineV, Skybird, TSO, TiphaineDeath

Unless scum gambited for MS to kill both their mass role blocker and block their Joat for N2 for a *hopeful* dream that MS survives till the end, he is town.

Yeah. The wagon formed very organically and it doesn't like a bussing job. Also MS has been town as shit. I still don't understand why people want him dead.

I don't recall wanting him dead. I'm not a member of the "kill 3rd party roles as a matter of policy" bloc on this site. From what I have seen, most people are. I was curious because MS seemed to let the implication that he was a 3rd party stand and even gave an answer that seemed like an intentional deception to reinforce that idea. I would not be surprised if there are more third party roles in the game.

Ollie's mechanic, for example, seems like it could fit as a third party. He's basically a serial killer who needs the game to co-operate by lynching his target. Seems like some kind of hybrid lyncher/vigilante/SK kind of thing to me. I wish we had investigated him before Mastin died, as it would be super useful to be able to know for sure if he's town. I would feel way better about winning by attrition if I knew I could trust the people trying to run the game atm.

[Drixx]

You're trying to remove more people than just me. You are in a role madness game and demanding that we give up our roles because ... well, that's the question. It says a lot about you as a player that you would rather try and game the system and manufacture a win by breaking the setup instead of ... you know ... actually properly reading people and winning the way you're supposed to.

Of course, if you're scum then taking out roles you know could hurt you makes all kinds of sense.

Cherry pick me again and I'll Call the Storm on you, by the way. Town has no need to strip something out of context like you did in #10,287. You need to decide, and fast, to stop wasting everyone's time. Your bullshit excuse for play is getting tired.

[Drixx]

You aren't doing anything productive, so far as I can see. You have logically flawed setup spec and what you are trying to pass off as scum hunting looks an awful lot like what scum do when they're trying to create a narrative. Town motives don't make sense for what you are demanding of people. Scum motives do.

If you were conftown, that would be one thing. But you're not.

I particularly enjoyed your little hint that you can't be killed/lynched easily. You are busy demanding that we lay down our roles to satisfy you. Tell you what ... go sit on a cactus and twirl. I'm done putting up with your bullshit and trying to keep things pleasant. Your play is terrible. You are slinging accusations at most of the game. Your logic is awful. I've seen mentally handicapped people put up better logical thought progressions in freshman philosophy classes than some of the drivel you've posted recently.

How about you stop being a fucking hypocrite and tell us what your role does? Oh yeah ... that's right. You don't apply your own "standards" to yourself.

[Drixx]

One cannot spend weeks being an asshole to everyone without eventually pushing someone too far. I've been considerably more patient than anyone has a right to expect. The hypocrisy is staggering. The terrible logic is staggering. Tell me honestly that what you're seeing from ZeL1nk is even valid logic, let alone sound. Tell me you think that it's more likely that town motives are behind him keeping his role secret while demanding everyone else answer endless questions and then further demanding that some of use our main abilities. This is a role madness game, and I didn't replace in so somebody could act like he's God and can order me around like a slave and apply double standards to shit and make me give up my own will on when and how I use my abilities.

It's surely enough that the prick pushed me this far yes? You want I should endure some more of his bullshit?

Take a look at my ISO. Take a look at all my games on site. Tell me that I get angry enough to use profanity frequently, and I'll call you a bullshit artist too.

[Drixx]

EbWoP: I mean... this is a guy who has demanded we accept his town read on a player who hasn't made a post in nearly 17 days. If that's not enough to make you question, I'm not sure what will wake you up. Everyone has been saying there is probably scum in the town block. Well DING DING DING, we have a fucking winner. There's literally no town motives I can think of that make any of ZeL1nk's bullshit make any sense at all. The moment I assume he's scum, it makes perfect sense. You think differently? Then explain how double standards are okay. Explain why he should get a free pass on keeping something as ominous sounding as "fragilizer" secret whilest at the same time demanding people claim and expend their abilities. There isn't a reasonable explanation for these things, and you know it.

[Drixx]

I've been working on finding scum for the last couple day phases. It's not my fault ZeLink and Skybird have you hoodwinked.

[Drixx]

Oh, and don't pull the whole "secretive" card on me. That was Mastin's call. She asked for patience until a certain day very early on (in day one), and when that day came, I gave out info. We're now a couple more day phases beyond that, and ZeL1nk is being a hypocrite by demanding full disclosure from others while he keeps his stuff secret. I've gone so far as to explain how I charge and why that means I can't use my ability in most conceivable MYLO situations. I'm all about using every means to find scum and execute them.

Like I said, if you have sound reasons to believe that he's town, then share them. Otherwise I'm sorry but you being conftown doesn't make me just trust your beliefs. Unless you have some actual reason you care to share for why I should town read him, then I'm gonna stick with logic and my gut here. Town simply doesn't need to manipulate what people say. Assuming he's town just ends up with me noticing that I'm confused. Assuming he's scum makes his entire last couple of days make a bunch of sense. He clashed with Magua and browbeat him until he went to lurking instead of trying to scumhunt, and Magua is actually investigated as town. There's just not any rationally conceivable town motive for what he's doing.

So how about you either explain why he's town, or if you can't then maybe you should re-evaluate your priors?

[Drixx]

So what does the Lord our ZeL1nk demand of me? Shall I pop the ultimate on Otolia now, your highness? Or did you want me to take someone else that you feel threatened by tomorrow?

@Whomever - I haven't defended ZZZX's lack of posting. I've been quite disappointed by it and said so. At least he's actually posted this day phase though. That's more than can be said for some. And stop trying to get me to give the Amished tell. I replaced in and I couldn't give two fucks whether Xombie was active or not. I got my feet under me and dug into the game as soon as I felt comfortable, and I haven't let up since. If you look at my ISO you'll see me being tentative and trying to establish reads on people and then you'll see when I felt comfortable enough to start trying to scumhunt. It's night and day and super clear, so save your "You're a lurksack" bullshit for people who aren't stupid.

[Drixx]

I've been working on finding scum for the last couple day phases. It's not my fault ZeLink and Skybird have you hoodwinked.

I'm opening to listening to why they're scum without the attacks on his intelligence. I don't see the scum motivation in his plans, and I have like 1% paranoia on that slot, which if you knew me you would know rarely happens. I'd be super surprised if he's scum here, not only because the way he's looking at and trying to figure out the game doesn't look like scum at all, but also due to his slots interactions with cephrir day one.

In order to claim he's group-scum you'd have to believe that cephrir intended to "VIG" a teammate for town cred, and I'm just not sure he does that.

It's like the first way you learn to scumhunt. You read someone's posts and assume they are town and see if they make sense. If you find yourself confused, then there's reason to dig deeper. His play doesn't make sense from town POV. Town doesn't need to apply different standards to different people who can be lumped into the same general category. Town never needs to manipulate and cherry pick people's posts. Town has no need to manufacture a narrative. Town has no need to browbeat investigated and confirmed town into being quiet, as ZeL1nk did to Magua.

Could he be town? Sure. Is he acting like it the last couple day phases? Not so much.

[Drixx]

So you have a town read on someone from months ago and you're not at all interested in updating that read?

If ZeL1nk is town, then he needs to stop swinging his dick all over the game. Nobody enjoys being ordered around even when it's someone conftown like you or Magua. It's considerably more irritating when it's someone who has some town cred from the very start of the game. The whole "I can't believe scum would do x to other scum" completely ignores third parties as a possibility and also completely ignores the fact that scum gambits that work do so because they are actions that most people won't believe scum will actually make.

I mean, I made some crazy plays back in my live mafia days. Once when I was the godfather (in Live mafia, the Godfather has final say on the night kill, unless he's killed and then that power goes to the mob boss; the exception is if all the rest of the mafia turn on the godfather or mob boss and kill him), I killed off the last remaining mafia member besides myself at night because the people in the game were assuming she was town and I was mafia. When she died and flipped mafia nobody believed I would have done that and everyone assumed it was an attempt to frame me.

All I'm saying is that the last two day phases, in particular, ZeL1nk has been increasingly abrasive and what he's saying and doing just don't look town motivated. I already made a summarized list of what he's doing that doesn't seem townie. I'm not gonna just say it over and over again. I'm going to go watch the basketball game.

I apologize for losing my temper. I don't apologize for being irritated at how ZeL1nk is behaving, and if he doesn't cut the shit, I will likely lose my temper again.


@Metal Sonic - Where are you? I need someone sane to bounce ideas off of.

[Drixx]

I wish there was a like button for posts. I also wish I could get the lurksacks to participate. The frustration right now is over the top for me.

[Drixx]

Magua was cleared by Mastin. You have to posit "godfather" status to suggest he's scum.

[Drixx]

Two off the top of my head are Fenrir and Hades. I'm sure there are more. I'll need to think about it for more than 10 seconds. There are so many gods in SMITE that I think it would be pretty easy to avoid the really obvious ones. I was surprised when I replaced in to see Fenrir dead and a 3rd party mostly because it was such a perfect fit to how that god plays in the game and that seemed like an odd choice. The rest of the dead don't seem to have really strong alignment ties, imo, to the game.

Presuming Otolia claimed true as Odin, then that would be clearly on the "good" side. If he flips scum that would probably sink any attempt to tie deity to alignment for me. After looking at it more, it seems like Fenrir just kind of happened to match up to how he's presented and used in the game and it doesn't seem likely that it was super intentional.

FWIW, I'm Chaac, God of Rain

[Drixx]

Mark Ooba in case he's pulling a TSO. I would shoot Skybird if I could. It would be nice to know for sure.

[Drixx]

If Ooba is lying about the the whole thing where he dies after doing the resurrection, then we would want to lynch him right?

[Drixx]

Oh also, while I'm doing work I'm also listening to music. Does anyone have any recommendations because I'm looking for new music.

Check out "Boyce Avenue" on youtube. They have some decent original stuff, and something like 150 acoustic covers of popular songs. They are one of the most viewed channels on youtube, so I would be surprised if you didn't already know about them ... but if you don't, you're welcome

So now that Twin Trap is also over: my problem with Metal Sonic's activity here does not seem alignment indicative (as I said before) because he was town in that game and drove shit around and cared, and here he doesn't.

However, I still can't help but feel like his lack-of-caring here is scummy. It's how I'm wired, but there it is. He did a shit-ton D1/D2 and then less and less after that. Makes my skin crawl.

That's the same reason I've had a gut scum read on Vezok for awhile. He got some town credit for supposedly doing something, and people keep referring to that ... but all a scum Vezok would have to do is tell his team not to kill MS and do something else to MS and it would be impossible to catch him in the lie. He has basically coasted on town cred from that supposed action and seems disinterested in actually helping town figure the game out. People seem to think I'm crazy when I point this stuff out though.

[Drixx]

We're cutting the deadline pretty close here. I hope someone else shows up and hammers.

VOTE: Otolia

Wake up lurksacks so we don't have a no lynch today.

[Drixx]

@Drixx

What does this super hammer ability entail anyway?

I use my ability and then vote and it is literally impossible for any other ability to interfere. So if we wanted to lynch Skybird, for example, her ability to say "no thanks" to being lynched would be absolutely worthless. If you go back and read through how I responded to her role claim, I suspect my paranoia and instant scum reading of her makes a lot more sense now.

I'd really like to see what that Unravel thing does ... weren't we supposed to get a list or something? And shouldn't Ooba have vacated the premises?

[Drixx]

Mastin put bees on ZZZX on day one and he targeted her on night one spreading bees to her, which is I believe how she had bees on so many people so fast. The plan she had depended upon co-operation to spread the bees and give an ever increasing investigation pool. It also looks like Mastin did not use her cop ability on ZZZX on night one, because she needed to test out his ability claim and have him use an ability on her, which spread the bees to her (and then afterward she spread bees to people, including people she investigated who normally would have lost bees ... and she got a list of who those people spread bees to, which never resulted in any information that contradicted ZZZX's claim in PT). I've been pretty hard defending him because I don't see how Mastin's plan gets spun up, nor how she doesn't get a guilty on him ... never mind that she lived just long enough that her death looked like a possible inside job. It is also worth nothing that ZZZX said from day one that he would primarily read neighborhood PT and asked us to note anything important about the game in there, which we did {Except for Imperium's resurrection, because frankly I didn't see how anyone could possibly miss that, and it's

another

reason I town read ZZZX... how on earth could he not realize Imperium is mod confirmed town if he was scum and knew about the kill?}

I think it would be a very good thing if all 8 of us left alive gave a detailed read on the others. How we read them and why. I have one moderate scum read and a couple light ones at the moment, and I could argue we have a town block of 5 people at the moment. The most useful lists of this type would come from Imperium (mod confirmed town) and Magua (cop confirmed town).

[Drixx]

Oh, and possibly my thinking about why Mastin died when she did was correct. I assumed that someone had bees and had to make a night kill and would have been caught visiting the dead by Mastin. Espeonage and Otolia both had bees, I believe. The only remaining question mark is whether they acted out of desperation and got lucky or if they outguessed us on our planning for when to protect all of us and reflect the kill. ZZZX didn't confirm his protect target on any night since I replaced in; however, he

did

protect me the night prior to Mastin's death, because Mastin got that info (and referred to it).

At the moment, I'm inclined to think that the scum team felt like they had to kill Mastin or risk getting picked off when making the night kill.

@Imperium - Who did Espeonage kill while in the portal with you? That's a delayed kill that will happen tonight or at the start of tomorrow, correct? That person should be considered conftown, imo, now that Espeonage flipped scum.

[Drixx]

Well that was a complete waste of mental energy then. I had assumed that Mastin was killed because the scum team couldn't act freely because of bees. Without bees on either of the scum who just died, it seems far less likely she got killed out of necessity.

[Drixx]

Drixx, why do you keep coming up with ideas like "I could figure out which gods are scum roles by SMITE flavor" or "I bet scum killed Mastin because they were boxed in by bees" but then not doing any followthrough or basic checking of your premises?

I talked with ZZZX about the theory that mafia killed Mastin out of necessity. It seems that I was in point of fact simply wrong about Otolia having bees on him. If you read my ISO, you will see my speculation about the SMITE gods perhaps being alignment indicative going from optimistic to thinking it wasn't likely. It appears that Fenrir was a good match for game flavor but the rest don't seem to be. Otolia being Odin and being scum is the nail in that speculation coffin.

I am Cabrakan Destroyer of Mountains.

Also I claim that i am the indirect cause of vezok's death. Ultimate. On Maguna and Drixx to redirect it to vezok. (my reflect got refreshed after using ulti now which is cool)

Also Would like to say I will say more later. I am really busy right now. Hence the VLA

Good call in protection targets (I'm a little biased obviously).


--------------------------------------

Ollie shot Espeonage. The two other deaths are bothering me. Unless we have an unclaimed vig, the scum team killed two people last night. If I am understanding what Imperium said correctly, Espeonage used his ability to delayed kill while they were in the portal, and so someone is going to drop dead from that tonight (assuming last night, today and tonight are the 3 phases). That effectively puts us at 7 before we lynch. If we mislynch and it isn't the same target that Espeonage killed, then we're looking at going into the night with 6.

If the following assumptions are true, I think we're in MYLO:

1.) Scum team has two remaining members
2.) Scum team can kill two people again tonight, and succeeds in doing so
3.) We mislynch today
4.) Espeonage used his ultimate while in the portal and that person is still alive and will drop dead (Imperium said so in #10373; if he knows, he should say who it is yeah?)

That would take us down to 4 people tomorrow so two scum would endgame us. If there's only one scum left, I think we gain a day.

[Drixx]

Ollie shot Espeonage. The two other deaths are bothering me. Unless we have an unclaimed vig, the scum team killed two people last night.

I would really prefer if you read the posts made since the start of the Day.

Like, seriously, you write a whole bunch of stuff when the question's already been answered.

Sorry mate. I had a really busy couple days, including like 4 hours sleep in 72 hours before I finally got to sleep for real last night. I am a bit out of it. I'll re-read since start of day and see what I missed. Instead of berating me, you could have just told me what I apparently missed.

[Drixx]

Okay, I see what I missed. I didn't so much miss it as I read it last night before I slept and, frankly, I can't remember much of last night after how long I stayed up. So ZZZX didn't actually protect me and magua from anything at all, because ZeL1nk shot Vezok. That means scum probably just has the one kill, so we're not in nearly as bad a shape as I thought.

I guess the question is whether Espeonage actually submitted the delayed kill from the portal and, if so, whether he actually targeted ZZZX or not. I guess we'll find that out by toMorrow.

[Drixx]

I mean, all I get right now is that you're not reading the thread, which is not really alignment-relevant.

I read up through last night's posts when I got done with something that came up and kept me occupied for the better part of Friday, Saturday and yesterday. Then when I woke today I read the stuff I hadn't last night. I think my brain simply told me where I could go stuff it when I was reading stuff last night before I slept and asking it to actually remember. I should have just re-read. Perhaps you'll forgive me given how much I actually have read and re-read this 10.5k posts thread?

As far as thought process goes ... this is pretty easy I think. The question of ZZZX is a non issue now. If he drops dead from the delayed kill, then my read was correct. If he doesn't drop dead, then he's almost certainly team scum. Since the kill is delayed three phases, we'll probably see it tomorrow and that should help PoE a lot. All of last nights kills make sense now.

ZeL1nk being killed makes me think that scum were afraid of his role and the unwillingness to talk about it. Presumably fragilizer was the ultimate and was used to kill Vezok, and it makes complete sense why talking about it would have been bad. That does kind of makes me irritated a little bit though, because I got dressed down during yesterday's day phase for holding my cards close in hopes of drawing a night kill and part of that was me being told that we were well past the point where being secretive about our roles would draw a kill.

[Drixx]

Unless Imperium has mod-provided knowledge of who the kill is on (ie it has to be submitted in their portal), I have zero belief that Espeonage actually submitted a kill on ZZZX at Imperium's discretion. Much more of a belief that he submitted it on Imperium.

How would he have explained that? I was assuming he was honest about his kill target because he was being town read by his neighborhood and if he had put in the kill on one person but actually targeted another, that would have resulted in him being killed on the spot.

[Drixx]

, then he's almost certainly team scum.

May I ask how me not dying makes me scum? or am i misreading this?

Espeonage said he used his 3 phase delayed kill on you. You would die at end of day today or during the night in that case. Magua is probably right though. Given the last couple days of discussion, I could see scum Espeonage killing someone else and leaving you alone for suspicion to fester.

[Drixx]

It's probably as productive as mine was ... it may be interesting after the game to see if any part of SMITE actually impacted the setup, aside from the names of the deities and their abilities giving a general "theme" to the powers. The fact that ooba's speculation has a WiFoM loop in it is proof that he ended up in the same place as me when thinking about it. There's just too many possibilities and the most likely one is that Deity flavor and neighborhood composition aren't useful for solving the game.

[Drixx]

I'm confused Imperium. At day start you said that ZeL1nk killed Vezok, but now you're saying he used Night Terror during the day and Roleblocked him at night? Does Night Terror last multiple phases? The way it reads, it looks like it's a single phase ability ... so if ZeL1nk did it to Vezok during the day, then it should not have killed Vezok at night?

If the Night Terror didn't kill Vezok, then we're back to having a kill that doesn't have a certain explanation.

P-Edit: Oh hey look. Imperium just called ZZZX town and then referred to "the last scum" and then said that said "last scum" was in my neighborhood. Since Imperium is mod confirmed town, that's Imperium saying I'm the last scum. Interdesting.

[Drixx]

But how long does Night Terror last? If ZeL1nk used it during the day, would it still be in effect at night for Vezok to die if he tried to use an ability? That's the part that confused me because the card flip didn't list a duration for the ability.

[Drixx]

Wow that was a really strong ability if it just lasted forever.

[Drixx]

It's probably as productive as mine was ... it may be interesting after the game to see if any part of SMITE actually impacted the setup, aside from the names of the deities and their abilities giving a general "theme" to the powers. The fact that ooba's speculation has a WiFoM loop in it is proof that he ended up in the same place as me when thinking about it. There's just too many possibilities and the most likely one is that Deity flavor and neighborhood composition aren't useful for solving the game.

Ridiculous.

SMITE has five member teams like most MOBAS.

You cannot look at four scum flipping four different classes in the game and not think the last (?) one will flip Hunter.

@MS: if ZZZX can explain why he has "investigation immune" (paraphrased) in his role PM, i would rather go after drixx.

Your speculation is interesting and it fits in terms of the archtypes in SMITE. The mod explicitly said that his setup wasn't broken. Granted, he was answering about whether "Scum in each neighborhood" could be a sound approach, but isn't "scum of each archtype" the sort of broken?

ZZZX's claim is a character of the Guardian archtype, which fits his claimed abilities pretty solid, yeah?
I am Chaac, a warrior archtype.

Don't you think it's a bit of an overreaction to want to kill me because, while your speculation is interesting, I don't believe any speculation from any of us is going to be some kind of magical panacea for winning. The mod explicitly said his game isn't broken in that way. It's not a personal attack against you man. Chill a bit perhaps?

Hell, I wish your speculation could be correct. If it were, that would rule me and ZZZX out since neither of us are Hunters. I would really enjoy having a town black too large for scum to escape from.

[Drixx]

EBWOP: "..., but isn't "scum of each archtype" the

same

sort of broken?"

[Drixx]

@Imperium - Is there any actual answer from ZeL1nk about how long his ultimate stays in effect? Did he ask? Did any of you ask him? The idea of an ability that causes someone to commit suicide if they use an ability, and lasts forever, seems a bit broken. His card also says "...if that player actions, he will die" ... but Imperium roleblocked Vezok, and since Roleblock is only superceded by Commuter in NAR, the roleblock should have been in effect and prevented Vezok from actually performing an action. Since ZeL1nk's card doesn't say "attempts to action" but instead says "actions", the plain reading seems to me to mean that Vezok would have had to actually perform an action to die.

And all of this wouldn't even really matter, except that if ZeL1nk is

not

the reason that Vezok died, then we have an extra kill unaccounted for, which according to ZZZX could have been aimed at Magua or myself and redirected via ZZZX's power onto Vezok.

That seems like a really important piece of information to have, especially if there's an extra kill in play that could endgame us faster than expected.

[Drixx]

@Drixx:

Assume the worst case scenario, and then move on. It does not, in the end, change anything.

Every bit of information is helpful. For example, if "Night Terror" didn't kill Vezok, then we have reason to believe that ZZZX did by choosing to protect you and me and re-directing to Vezok. That confirms ZZZX's claimed ultimate ability and also tells us there is another shot out there that was aimed at either you or me. If I assume the worst case that I think is reasonable, then I would assume we have two scum left and that they may have some kind of limited extra kills which they saved until late in the game. If there are two scum and we mislynch today and Espeonage's shot from inside the portal hits someone still living, then we're looking at starting tomorrow in a 3v2 LYLO.

So maybe it irritates you that I'm trying to make absolutely sure that it was ZeL1nk's ability that did it ... but I kind of want to know that we might be close to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory here. If you weren't cleared by Mastin, I would seriously wonder why you are trying to stop me asking questions and trying to figure this out.

[Drixx]

Read the whole post. You were saying things as if they were fact that you can't know for sure, but since you have had your card flipped there's no reason to read those as scum slips.

[Drixx]

We have a claimed cop innocent on ZZZX, guys. As far as I can tell, the only reason anyone thinks there is scum in my neighborhood is setup spec, and because Mastin got killed, but ZZZX is straight contradicting what I thought was the protection and says that he protected her and she got killed anyway. With as much protection as is in the game, it makes some sense to posit a strongman type ability and with how much focus is being put on ZZZX right now, it makes a ton of sense why Mastin was killed even though the scum who have flipped since didn't even have bees. There was obviously no actual need for them to kill her when they did because without bees on them there would be no unexplained bees spreading to alert her nor could she investigate them. That shifts motive away from her being a threat and towards trying to mislead us into mislynches... or at least, that's what it looks like to me right now, especially with several of you focusing on someone who has been freaking cop cleared.

We are potentially like a day, two at the most away from being end gamed if we don't pull our heads out of the little dark places they currently appear to be stuffed and figure this out. Seriously ... why the bloody hell are we hammering on ZZZX who has a freaking cop result clearing him?

[Drixx]

With a kill presumably incoming from Espeonage, a mislynch today and a kill tonight puts us at 5 tomorrow. Another mislynch and night kill would make lylo. If there's an extra kill from scum, then it's game over instead. I assume ZZZX is going to die from Espeonage's shot, since thats' what Imperium reported, and presumably Espeonage was attempting to stay out of the noose.

That's going to put me up for the noose tomorrow, as things stand right now. That move could cost us the game. Given the site meta when it comes to neutrals, Mastin was pretty insistent that I never reveal the following. ZZZX has also cautioned me against doing so repeatedly, but as far as I can tell the only reason people are focused on ZZZX and I is setup spec. Our neighborhood had only 3 people and the abilities were called OP by some ... although I'm not sure we were anything even resembling OP when compared to a cop who can resurrect people.

Anyway, there was a reason that I was all over Metal Sonic when it seemed like he was admitting third party and saying he won with town. That reason is because I am third party (not sure anyone thought there was only one, did you?). I am self aligned, like Fenrir was, but my abilities are not analagous to SK like his were. The best description I can think of for my role is a Survivor/Lyncher. I am Chaac, god of Rain, as I claimed, and my abilities are as follows:

Thunder Strike: Each Day phase I can mark two people, and they become charged.
Torrent: If at any time there are ten living marks, I can Torrent and get a self-aligned win. {This is no longer possible since there aren't 10 people besides me alive}
Storm Call: I vote for someone and Storm Call on them. This prevents them from avoiding the lynch, doing anything to votes, blocking it, etc. It removes all my marks when I do it. If I lynch scum, I win.

I need three charges to Storm Call, and I currently have those. I have one chance to win, and that's if I can Storm Call scum. I would very much prefer if we could keep Ooba alive for a confirmed scum for me to Storm Call.

The role is actually pretty cool, and seems like maybe Dram was trying to make a 3rd party role that wouldn't be a policy lynch. My win condition with the marks would not have harmed the town, and I have to play to the town's advantage to win with Storm Call. Unless there is another 3rd party {which I doubt and why I was pressuring MS so much about it}, it seems like Fenrir was the anti-town one, and I'm the more pro-town one. So if you've been reading me as town but spec made you think the Mayan neighborhood couldn't be all town, you were right in both cases. I've been doing my best to figure out who is scum so I can meet my wincon. I wish I had Storm Called on Otolia but he just didn't read scummy to me.

Given my need to kill scum to win and my ability being a direct counter to Skybird, I still feel like she is highly probable to be scum.


So there... now it should be super clear why our neighborhood behaved the way we did, and why we were trying to find scum for me to kill. I am convinced that ZZZX is not scum, and Ooba's investigate confirms that.

Metal Sonic - Possible scum. I don't recall seeing a scum JOAT before, but it's possible. Least likely imo.
Skybird - My ability counters hers and her reaction to my speculation that she was scum was really scummy. Most likely scum, imo.
TheWayItEnds - Tree Stump claim. Not a lot in the ISO to read.
Ooba - Resurrected a townie. Claimed he would die then didn't. Claims to also be a cop, but produced only innocent results in list. Possibly scum ... maybe paranoia here?
ZZZX - Probtown despite being a lurksack.
Ollie - Vig gaining shots via getting game to lynch specific people. No experience with a role like this. Hasn't participated a whole lot and not a lot to read. Has killed scums though. Probtown.
Magua - Investigated as town by Mastin. Conftown.
Drixx - Third Party, needs to use ultimate to super hammer scum to win.
Imperium - Super Conftown.


If ZZZX wanders by, he can confirm that this has been in neighborhood PT since day one. He also said in neighborhood PT that he thinks he redirected a kill attempt on me, but I don't think there's any firm evidence of that (it would be super nice if there was though!)

[Drixx]

Magua, for someone who doesn't like people focusing on you or ZZZX because [set-up spec], you turn around and think I am scum because of set-up spec. Just because your ability counters mine does not mean that I am not town.

I have done everything you guys asked of me. I threw away my ultimate because you all didn't trust me. And it really pissed me off to have to waste something that might have helped town win. So please, go ahead and vote me. Please everyone lynch me now because you all refuse to see me as town. Get it over with so I can laugh at all of you as my flip is revealed. I'm in two other games now and I am totally spinning my wheels here.

I will even help you out.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Skybird

Self voting is anti-town. If you are going to give up, could you maybe wait until our claimed cop investigates you? I am only going to get one shot to win and as much as you seem like the logical target of my ability to push a lynch through protections, I would rather

know

than guess and just be stuck in the game with no way to win.

[Drixx]

What was vague about it? It's Lyncher with a faction as a the Lynchee instead of one specific person.

@TWIE - I presume I got the same thing that you got. My role PM has a flavor quote and tells me that I am Chaac, God of Rain. It gives me my Pantheon and tells me I am self aligned. It then lists my Passive, Active and Ultimate abilities, my two possible win conditions and links me to the game thread and the Mayan neighborhood topic and then the Deity card. There's nothing in the role PM that says I am or am not a threat to town. I suppose that would come down to how I use my ultimate. I've kept it charged and saved it until there is a confirmed scum to kill with it.

[Drixx]

So drixx. Why do you claim 4th party? Like. You were pretty in the clear, and I would be defending you to get zzzx down first at least. Now, I dunno, but just kind of put a target on yourself.

ZZZX, or somebody else if Espeonage lied to Imperium, is going to drop dead from that delayed kill. If we mislynch today and the kill isn't blocked tonight, then we go into tomorrow with 5, and if I were to be the main lynch wagon tomorrow, there's no way on earth I could claim my role and be believed. I probably should have claimed it right after Mastin died, but Mastin was pretty insistent repeatedly that I not out myself as self-aligned becuase the site meta is very negative for 3rd parties. ZZZX also cautioned me.

I can only win by putting the Storm Call hammer on the, presumably, last remaining scum. If I'm getting mislynched that's not going to happen. Further, if I go up to the gallows, it could result in a scum win in a game that scum has no business winning.

And you dont have a wincon like this either right?

Clarification:
The wincon for a racist would be "You win when everyone outside of [pantheon] gods is dead."

I had two possible wincons. One was to use torrent, which required 10 marked players. The second wincon was to use Storm Call on a scum lynch. My wincon doesn't state anything to do with factions at all.

@Drixx:

Full action list, including targets, please.

Also, exactly what your wincon is.

Day 1: Thunder Strike on Cephrir and Zelink
Day 2: Thunder Strike on Farside and TSO
Day 3: Thunder Strike on TWIE and Mnemonic
Day 4: Thunder Strike on Espeonage and Otolia
Day 5: Thunder Strike on Vezok and Mastin
Day 6: Thunder Strike on Ollie and Ooba

Also, Drixx, this is unrelated to the above questions (which I really want answered), but why claim? Why not just vote Skybird?

Because I'm not convinced that Skybird is scum. Her reactions to suspicion have read as both scummy and legitimately frustrated townie. I was kind of hoping Ooba was legit a cop and might actually nail an investigation and I could go for the win with Storm Call. I mean ... I could have just kept my head down and hoped to get lucky, but I think it's much more likely that town wins and that I can get a Storm Call landed on scum if I claim and town has as much info to work with as possible.

[Drixx]

Would you bet the game right now that Skybird is scum? That's basically what you're saying to me when you suggest I should have just done Storm Call and hoped.

[Drixx]

Define "scum" in terms of stormcall.

Would 3p have counted?

Like, really, what I'm asking you here is, since your only chance of winning is to find scum, who do you think scum is.

And you're shooting back with "Not Skybird."

And that's not really that helpful.

[Drixx]

Define "scum" in terms of stormcall.

Would 3p have counted?

To win with Storm Call, I must use it on someone who is

not

order aligned. I presume that means I could have used it on AP.

Like, really, what I'm asking you here is, since your only chance of winning is to find scum, who do you think scum is.

And you're shooting back with "Not Skybird."

And that's not really that helpful.

I'm open to suggestions mate. I've been getting sporadic advice from ZZZX, but otherwise I've been trying to figure this out on my own.

[Drixx]

Why do you think I pushed MS and Skybird both fairly hard in prior days?

[Drixx]

When it seemed like Metal Sonic was claiming 3rd party, I was questioning him because it seemed highly unlikely to me that there would be another one. He eventually cleared that up, and his ISO doesn't really have any of the hallmarks of scum screwing up with a narrative, and he's been consistently active enough that I would expect to find it.

As for Skybird, that's the strongest scum read (I just gave my reads list a couple pages back). It's just ... it all comes down to betting that my read of her reactions is right. If not, then I'm along for the ride. If she is scum though, the rest of us get to win.

I figured it would take people some time to process me coming clean about being 3P. If folks are up for it, Skybird is the most likely scum that I can see. I'm certainly paranoid that there's someone being viewed as probtown who is actually scum, but we're running out of time.