SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[ZeL1nK]

Hello.

I'm roughly 232 pages behind at the moment, so I'll probably need five minutes (give or take a few days) to read the game.

In the mean time, it appears there's a substantial wagon on me. I suppose this is the part where I'm supposed to yell at all of you and call you a bunch of silly-billies or something, but I've never been good at that. I would appreciate it I weren't lynched before I'm caught up, because as much fun as it is reading through over 200 pages of what I'm going to assume is mostly meaningless banter, it's even more fun when it's not all for nothing!

If you're really impatient and simply cannot wait until I've caught up to interact with me, I can perform party tricks. Pick a card. Any card.

[ZeL1nK]

It was the seven of diamonds.

[ZeL1nK]

I'm going to assume I'm town, since "Order" isn't very specific but I don't appear to have any scum buddies. Unless they haven't accepted me yet because I'm the new guy and they're playing a prank on me or something. Perhaps I have to prove myself before they take me in. Who knows?

My picture looks quite menacing, though. I think I'm like batman with breasts. A dark knightess.

It's probably going to take me a few full days of reading to catch up on this game, but it appears there's not much time until the deadline and from skimming the last couple pages the general sentiment seems to be that people are fine with my lynch. Could one of you fine people give me a run down of why I'm one of the leading wagons and any other relevant information that might quicken the process of catching up?

[ZeL1nK]

It was the seven of diamonds.

full claim

I couldn't if I wanted to. In his haste, our dear moderator has given me no more than my basic role PM, so I'm not entirely sure what actions I've taken, if any.

Unless you're just asking me to full-claim that, in which case I'm going to politely decline. Again, even if I wanted to, I'd have to check with our dear moderator to make sure of how explicit I can be.

[ZeL1nK]

I just checked, and that player doesn't seem to be in the player list.

[ZeL1nK]

'twould be a mighty coincidence if there were a player like that, and I just happened to join the game they're in.

[ZeL1nK]

Can one really know anything?

You don't appear to be voting me. May I ask why you wish for me to claim?

Do you have thoughts on the game that extend beyond your desire to know the contents of my role PM that you would like to share with me? Perhaps you could walk me through the people who you think are likely to be scum, or your thoughts on major events that have happened so far in this game, or perhaps we can just have a friendly chat and get to know each other a little better. Did you know, for example, that I can both pat my head

AND

rub my belly

at the same time

?

[ZeL1nK]

TiphaineDeath (9): Mastin2, Xombie, theaceofspades, farside22, Vezokpiraka, Ooba, The Mask, Ankamius, Ozgin, Cephrir

A question for anyone who wishes to answer.

Is anyone assuming this is an all-town wagon?
Do people think I'm being bussed and, if so, by who? Since dramonic won't tell me, perhaps one of you can.
If I did happen to be town (if it's even possible to imagine such a scenario), who would be scum here?

[ZeL1nK]

Yes, anyone can do that.

I feel like you're belittling my achievement and I don't appreciate that.

[ZeL1nK]

So you think there's only two scum in the game, and they're both currently being wagoned?

That would be rather convenient. Not impossible, just convenient. Do you perhaps have reasons for this beyond, "because I said so"? And, if it's not too personal a question, may I ask what your next goal in life is? Since you've clearly already mastered scum hunting.

[ZeL1nK]

Mafia is a convenient game.

Yes. Yes. My next goal in life is to beat Rooftop Run in under 2 minutes 15 seconds.

That seems like a rather simple goal. I don't see how you couldn't achieve that. You are famous for being rather quick, after all. Or perhaps infamous, depending on who we ask and how intimate they've been with you.

What exactly did dramonic give you upon joining the game? Did he not give you your previous night actions?

Precisely what I said he gave me (a role PM).

No actions or other information that might have been useful to know. I've been left to fend for myself in a cage full of lions. Isn't that just cruel?

[ZeL1nK]

He literally just forwarded me what I assume was the original message to TD, since it contains a time and date from two weeks ago with no additional information and says it's a forwarded message in the title.

But, yes, this is the kind of thing I'm likely to lie about, Metal Sonic. You've seen right through me. I should have known it was foolish to try and sneak past your acute detective skills.

[ZeL1nK]

Can you not post like a normal person?

No, I can't. It's a birth defect and I'm rather sensitive about it.

[ZeL1nK]

Dearest Pumbaa,

My sincerest thanks for teaching me what a productive post looks like.

Who do you think is scum?

Suppose I'd already flipped and, by some mistake, the mod flipped

my fake-claim rather than my actual role

my role (town). Who would you be pursuing tomorrow?

[ZeL1nK]

Your spot has been null/leaning scum to me so if I'm right, yes they are bussing.
Ace, Ooba, Ank, and Cephrir are all suspicious to me.

Do you have town reads on the rest of the people on my wagon, then?

What is your theory for why I'm being bussed, when Ozgin (who you may or may not think is town?) was so close to lynch earlier in the day?

Is my whole team a bunch of jerks? Is that why I don't know who they are? Did they tell dramonic not to tell me?

That's incredibly mean.

[ZeL1nK]

if I'm right.

Also what do you mean, "if I'm right"?

That suggests conviction, whereas apparently I'm only "null/leaning scum". Have I been updated to "probably scum" or do you usually assume you're right about "null/leaning scum" reads? Do you have no stronger reads than "null/leaning scum"?

Because - and feel free to call me crazy - I usually prefer lynching people I think are very likely to be scum, and - again, call me crazy - those people aren't usually null/leaning scum to me. I know, I know, I have a weird way of thinking about things. Perhaps times have changed and I haven't adapted.

[ZeL1nK]

We're just in a very awkward position today because we only have three lynches to choose from and all of them are bad.

Is this because I'm missing something and there are literally only three lynches to choose from?

Or is this like, "well, we could lynch someone else, but we're incredibly lazy, so we're just going to sit around and spam page upon page of banter to make it really hard for the dude replacing in while twiddling our thumbs because we're evil"?

[ZeL1nK]

What message/s, if any, did you receive upon what I'm assuming was F-16 linking you and Ozgin?

[ZeL1nK]

http://prntscr.com/6c69aw

The range of your skills continues to impress me. Is there anything you cannot do?

[ZeL1nK]

From what little I've read, I think FourTrouble seems like a generally likeable person and is not someone I want to lynch today, but (and please pardon my French) Ozgin does not seem like a good guy and I want to make him deadsies.

But, people seem to be opposed to this idea because they loved the Lion King. I must admit, I have a bit of a soft spot for that movie, too.

So, I don't know what to do. I don't want to read through 200 pages if the choice comes down to me or someone I don't have strong feelings about being a bad person.

[ZeL1nK]

Please don't speak Korean in game. This is an English forum.

[ZeL1nK]

Is it public information how the lynchpool was decided today? (Has someone claimed it?)

Is no lynch actually an option?

[ZeL1nK]

From a theory standpoint, it's not such a bad option to no-lynch given there's two anti-town players dead and no town players dead. The idea that you must lynch every day seems like a rather silly concept. Like putting a use-by date on sour cream. Is it really necessary? What purpose does it serve? Are they worried it's going to go sour?

Though I suppose this is dependent on whether you think there's a decent chance that either my slot or FourTrouble's slot is scum.

I'll read through FourTrouble's ISO properly and then probably vote no lynch unless something changes my mind.

[ZeL1nK]

Ah, I forgot, I'm dealing with someone who has already mastered the art of scum hunting.

Pray tell, good sir, what information do you think we'd gain if it's not even possible to lynch a scum player?

[ZeL1nK]

Ah, I forgot, I'm dealing with someone who has already mastered the art of scum hunting.

Pray tell, good sir, what information do you think we'd gain if it's not even possible to lynch a scum player?

the dead person's role pm

Wow.

I've seen the light. This is a good reason to mindlessly lower the number of people in the game, regardless of their alignment.

No wonder you have a Best Town Performance logo and I don't. I shall heed your guidance.

[ZeL1nK]

Constantly trying to point out you are town rings false to me. (re - is my whole team a bunch of jerks/I don't know who they are?) Scum are usually the ones going around constantly shouting "I'm town! I'm town".

Doesn't it follow that if I didn't list a person as suspicious that I have a town read on them?

No, it

I'm town

doesn't follow

I'm town

that you necessarily

I'm town

read the rest

I'm town

of the wagon as town.

You could

I'm town

have them as

I'm town

null reads, for example.

[ZeL1nK]

Zel1nk are you always this sarcastic?

If I answer yes, will you assume I'm being sarcastic?

[ZeL1nK]

Sorry Metal Sonic-senpai, I do want you to notice me but I don't think FourTrouble is scum.

VOTE: No Lynch

[ZeL1nK]

Because I read his posts and they don't look contrived. Do you think differently?

[ZeL1nK]

You keep saying that, so it must be right!

[ZeL1nK]

Because the scum will not find it worthwhile to kill this player, unless he has revealed himself to be a threatening Power Role

By the way, in a game where it's known there are no VTs, how many roles do you think there are that pose no potential threat to scum?

[ZeL1nK]

i'd rather lynch somebody than nobody. No lynches do nothing but give scum another night to choose their kill without any retribution.

It's kicking a decision down the road for no purpose. It's like politics, but less nasty. Kick it down the line to your successor, not your problem.

I'd rather lynch any of the 3 up there then no lynch. No lynch is bad mmkay

Other than the fact that you seem likely to be a baddie, this sort of logic would apply more in a game that isn't role madness with two anti-town players already dead and zero town players dead.

I asked Metal Sonic, who ignored it perhaps because logic is his (im)mortal enemy, but exactly what sort of setup do you think you're playing here? It's known to be role madness with no VTs - virtually every town role in the game likely has potential to ruin scum in some way. Role madness games are, by their nature, more about the night phase than the day phase. Giving scum another night to what? Potentially miss another kill but more likely get at most a single kill? Big deal?

When the alternative is lynching someone you don't think is scum, there's no upside to lynching.

Unless your argument is that you think it's likely I'm a baddie or that it's likely FourTrouble is a baddie, ergo lynching is better than no lynching. But I trust your opinion about as far as I can throw it, and I never got picked when the kids played baseball for a very good reason.

I personally think the most likely scenario (if we don't lynch Ozgin, who Pumbaa seems rather attached to) is a town lynch today, and the only thing you get out of lynching today is a flip - there is

no useful information

to be gained from the lynch today outside of that if it's a town flip.

[ZeL1nK]

Also, I don't mind (mostly) full-claiming, but that would just be to drive the point home that I think a lynch today is silly unless absolutely necessary.

[ZeL1nK]

i.e. I would not be surprised if I have one of the more powerful town roles, but I imagine most town roles are equally powerful in some way.

Needlessly culling numbers seems about as useful as a room full of potatoes. A room full of potatoes. What are you going to do with them all?

[ZeL1nK]

Probably because it's true (the point I was making about this setup). Which is why lynching for the sake of lynching and nothing else seems like not so good an idea.

[ZeL1nK]

Also, just in case anyone is wondering why I think Ozgin could very well be a baddie, I'll make the same point I made in the neighbourhood PT.

I've read over the circumstances that led to F-16's modkill and I've read over F-16's ISO (paying close attention to his stance on Ozgin).

Given the circumstances that led to 5582, 5583 and 5585, I believe it's more likely than not that F-16

did

actually have good reason to believe Ozgin is scum.

There are two possibilities here.

He received some sort of information from dramonic clarifying a query that made Ozgin more likely scum than not. Perhaps he was informed of circumstances that indicated Ozgin had blatantly lied about something. Perhaps dramonic just came home drunk one night and decided it would be a good idea to send F-16 a copy of Ozgin's role PM. Who can really know? The point is that the way it came about doesn't look to me like it was simply an unplanned gambit or lying for the sake of lying.

The alternative here is that he was simply being a massive doo-doo head (I sincerely apologise to anyone whose sensibilities I may have offended with my choice of language here, but I could not think of a clean way to express how disappointed I would be if this were true) and the clarification he received from dramonic was something along the lines of, "Oh, actually Pumbaa will die if you lynch Ozgin!" But believing this entails that F-16 did this knowing full-well that if Ozgin flips town, he'd be lynched the following day, which seems rather counter-productive. It could be argued that he was so confident that at least one of Ozgin and Pumbaa would flip scum that he was willing to take the gamble (this is the only reasonable explanation I could think of for this to be the case, but I don't see why he'd be so adamant about claiming it wasn't a lie or a gambit if this is the case). The other option is that he thought he could talk his way out of a lynch the following day, which (given how popular he was in this game) seems unlikely. Or perhaps he was secretly tsundere for Pumbaa and wanted to join him in the dead PT so they could be together forever. A lovers' suicide, if you will. Perhaps in bringing Ozgin and Pumbaa together, he himself had fallen for Pumbaa. Love can do strange things to people.

So maybe F-16 didn't know anything about Ozgin. Disregarding all of the above, I'm not seeing a great amount of town motivation in the way Ozgin has approached the game. I thought the way he went from one vote to another (4872->4956) looked less like a baddie flip-flopping and more like a good guy reconsidering . But this is the only thing I think has a town feel in his ISO, really. I don't agree with the assertion made by some players that his reaction to the lovers thing was anything but null and I think, if anything, the way he reacted felt a bit strained. The nature of this game day is making it difficult to assess a lot of his play, but outside of the posts where he justifies his position on TD or FourTrouble, the vast majority of his posts have been talking about his role, the lover thing, or generally survivalistic pleas. It's somewhat understandable as either town or scum when you're part of such a small lynch pool, but he's been in the game for what? A week and a half now? And he doesn't seem to have made an effort to do anything outside of talking about either my slot, FourTrouble or how he's so very town (just look at his adorable puppy eyes; he wouldn't harm a fly). Perhaps he's done more in his neighbourhood? Or perhaps he hasn't. Either way, what I'm seeing hasn't been awe-inspiring (and his latest post is the only indication that he's

started

thinking about other players). Also I felt his reasoning for not revealing his ultimate was awkward, but he would not be the first player I've seen who thinks his own survival is more important than anything else so, again, I suppose this could come from either town or scum.

I rambled a bit, but the long and short of it is that I don't see much in Ozgin's play that points to town. Unfortunately, we cannot lynch him without murdering a beloved Disney character, and everyone would be sad if this happened, so I don't see an Ozgin lynch happening.

Which leaves us with a choice between me and FourTrouble, and I don't currently believe FourTrouble looks like scum (and so far the only thing I've seen indicating a reason for the FourTrouble wagon, apart from a desire to not lynch the alternatives, is Metal Sonic-senpai giving a vague description of FourTrouble's play today being off - and while I trust Metal Sonic-senpai's opinion to be very accurate because he was part of a best town performance, this strangely didn't seem all that convincing).

I'd rather no lynch.

With all this said, I've just been informed that there are some voteless players tomorrow and this is a possible reason some people might be opposed to no lynch. I personally don't think it's that big a deal, even if all three voteless players happen to be town.

[ZeL1nK]

It's entirely possible he despises Cephrir so much he was willing to be lynched if he was wrong without necessarily scumreading Cephrir strongly.

So the tsundere theory?

That's so cute.

I wish F-16 and Pumbaa all the best of luck in the future.

[ZeL1nK]

Although tbh I'm a little disappointed he stuck with Pumbaa.

I think after 5893 I would have started rotating through the whole cast Lion King characters before sticking with like... Zazu or some shit.

I've never seen the Lion King, so I'm not actually familiar with the cast. From what I've heard, it's too violent for my tastes.

The only characters are know are Pumbaa and the rat.

[ZeL1nK]

I keep seeing a deep-seated hatred for the idea of no lynching, but I've yet to see an adequate explanation for why it's a bad idea.

For the Bible tells me so...

[ZeL1nK]

Is there a list of claims on the table?

Or a list of neighbourhood distribution?

[ZeL1nK]

Is there a list of claims on the table?

Or a list of neighbourhood distribution?

Particularly interested in knowing claims.

Is somewhat important in deciding whether I should claim just for the sake of having the information on the table.

[ZeL1nK]

I can assure you there's nothing mini about me, so I'd go with the other one.

[ZeL1nK]

Why do you think I'm not a good guy, mastin?

[ZeL1nK]

What do have on ZeL1nk?

I'm good at doing shadow puppetry.

Watch...

[ZeL1nK]

In that case I think I would have gone with "Pumbraa" instead.

OK. I will keep that in mind going forward because it seems very important.

In the mean time, could you please vote no lynch? I have a theory that something amazing will happen if you do.

[ZeL1nK]

Well actually it appears you're voting for a baddie, but still, I do not think it is likely he will be lynched today since (I think, but I may be wrong because I am not very knowledgeable in this area) eating pork is generally considered taboo among gods. So perhaps a good alternative is to no lynch.

[ZeL1nK]

Wouldn't it just be hilarious if all three of the lynch candidates today were bad guys, and you regret the decision to no lynch come end-game when we achieve a miraculous victory and rub it in your face for being silly-billies who listened to me?

Ha ha

Ha...

[ZeL1nK]

warty

I think that's his nose, actually.

[ZeL1nK]

The first course of action is determining why exactly people like Cephrir are scumreading me.

It could be those empty eyes of yours. You look like a serial killer.

[ZeL1nK]

I don't think I -can- anymore. This game broke something fragile in me a while ago and I haven't been able to get it back since.

Try voting no lynch. I have heard this helps in some cases.

[ZeL1nK]

Well done on a productive page of content, guys.

I think, if nothing else, that's something you can be proud of. So don't be too hard on yourself, TSO.

Now how about we all celebrate with a nice glass of no lynch?

[ZeL1nK]

I don't hate you. Quite the opposite, actually. I think you're a really nice guy and I'm sure you have many redeeming features. I just haven't figured out what they are, yet.

[ZeL1nK]

Do you think FourTrouble is scum?

[ZeL1nK]

Apologies if I broke the mood with a serious question.

Please feel free to ignore it if you feel it was out of line.

[ZeL1nK]

Ah, my question was actually directed at TSO, who was voting FourTrouble up until the crude but strong case he wrote in #5991, followed by a change of vote.

[ZeL1nK]

Oooh, oooh.

Do me next.

Please be more considerate in your choice of language. There could be children reading.

[ZeL1nK]

Is there a single neighborhood in this game that isn't convinced all of its members are perfectly innocent beings who spend most of their time doing charity work, giving blood and being generally well-meaning people?

The baddies seem to "have a good thing going" in that regard.

[ZeL1nK]

Maybe you're all right and there are no baddies left. Maybe dramonic is a sadistic mod who enjoys watching good, innocent people tear each other to shreds.

[ZeL1nK]

ooba's done at least one quite town thing that i see no reason to discuss in the event all of us are actually town, which does seem possible to me

Is this one thing role-related? (i.e. Is it ooba leaking information about his role in a way that you think is town?)

If you don't want to answer, fine. But if the answer is yes, it lends to a theory I have for why nobody seems to be scum-reading anyone in their respective neighborhoods.

On that note,

@FourTrouble,

Could you summarise for me exactly what PV wrote in your neighborhood? Especially if he talked about or hinted at an aspect of his role in some way.

[ZeL1nK]

Is there anyone -- anyone! -- that thinks Ooba is scum? Or am I the only one in the entire game?

For what it's worth, I don't think he looks town from what little I've read, but I haven't delved into his ISO in any depth.

[ZeL1nK]

The progression of his reads on you and TD over this day phase are intriguing to me. At one point, TD was among his stronger town reads, but that obviously changed and I don't remember seeing where or why.

But I likely won't be looking at this in any depth until I read the game in depth overnight (assuming I don't get lynched today).

[ZeL1nK]

Nobody is saying one scum per neighborhood.

[ZeL1nK]

Doesn't that contradict your theory that dramonic is a good mod who wouldn't make the game breakable like that?

Are the AP and PV hoods confirmed town in your eyes?

[ZeL1nK]

By the way, the point being made was that you calling your entire neighborhood town is counter-productive

IF

there are bad guys in it. Not that there necessarily must be bad guys in it.

Also, every single neighborhood in the game is saying their own neighborhood has no scum in it.

So what do you propose we do?

[ZeL1nK]

ZeL1nK, Imperium, Espeonage,

F-16

Mastin2, Xombie, ZZZX
TSO, Ozgin, Vezok, Magua
Ooba, Cephrir, Heartless, Andrius
Metal Sonic-senpai, Skybird, TWIE
Farside, FourTrouble, Ankamius,

PV

Theaceofspades, Mask,

AP

This is the breakdown of hoods as far as I can tell

[ZeL1nK]

No. A set pattern is ridiculous. Dram would do something unpredictable.

The idea that you think dramonic would do something unpredictable, but wouldn't include multiple scum in one hood seems absurd to me.

Also, I'm aware of how town blocs work. The argument being made was that it's counter-productive

IF

it contains scum.

I honestly could not care less about your hood protecting each other. The issue I see is that mastin's hood is protecting each other, snowflake-senpai's hood is protecting each other, your hood is protecting each other, my hood is full of mutual town reads (though I'm not entirely sure how strong their town reads on my slot are), I believe FourTrouble is townreading his hood.

So where's the bad guys?

[ZeL1nK]

Essentially there's 5 or 6 town blocs in this game, and they're all saying, "look elsewhere for the bad guys!!"

[ZeL1nK]

Spoiler alert: That misses the point.

Here, I'll use an analogy to drive the point home.

Let's say we have a neighborhood. Let's call it the Megyptian neighborhood just so we can give it a name. Everyone in the Megyptian neighborhood is protecting each other, and telling you not to lynch or vig anyone in that neighborhood.
Now let's say we have another neighborhood. Let's called this the Snowflake-senpai neighborhood just so we can give it a name. Everyone in Snowflake-senpai's neighborhood is protecting each other, and telling you not to lynch or vig anyone in that neighborhood.

Repeat this until you have every player in the game being protected by their respective neighborhood.

Now ask yourself: Do you care about the other hoods who are protecting each other?

No?

Then why should anyone care about your "alliance"?

Personally, if I see someone I think is scum, I'm not going to give a doo-doo (apologies for the language) that you think I should look elsewhere because you're having a nice tea party and it would spoil the mood if one of you had to leave.

[ZeL1nK]

Also with everyone protecting everyone,

someone has to be wrong

.

So I value your opinion as much as I value the opinion of every other neighborhood claiming they have no bad guys in them.

i.e. Not at all.

[ZeL1nK]

Do you or do you not think it's strange that no hood in this game (with the

possible

exceptions of the Magua hood - but I think they're mostly town reading each other - and the TAOS hood - who I'm not sure about) thinks there's scum anywhere in their own hood?

What do you think this suggests?

Because, to me, it looks like bad guys are co-ordinating how they approach the hoods specifically so they gain the trust of the other members in the hood. I think they could be doing this by leaking information about their roles or doing other such things to gain the trust of the other people in their hoods. I think people are being fooled by stuff that isn't actually town but is being perceived as town.

So when you say, "I have super-secret information that I can't share with you and it tells me my entire hood is town!" I scoff and roll my eyes.

The bad guys are manipulating some of the hoods very well at the moment. This is a fact. Your hood isn't special just because you think the rest of them are town. Open your eyes and start reading between the lines.

Maybe your hood is a special one with no bad guys in it. But maybe it isn't. Someone has to be wrong here.

This turned into a bit of a rant. I've been keeping most of these thoughts contained in my own neighborhood, but it's annoying seeing people suggest their hood is special because you're all town-reading each other. No. That's a poor line of thinking. That reasoning is almost as poor as that homeless man who sleeps in the park down the road. His name is Paul and he's actually quite a nice guy once you get to know him and is an unfortunate victim of circumstances. He used to own a Blockbuster franchise. Haha. What a poor business decision. Anyway, the key point here is that he doesn't have a lot of money and that makes him poor. Like your line of thinking.

[ZeL1nK]

tl;dr If FourTrouble wants to vig one of you, I'd actively encourage it just because you're arrogant enough to suggest your hood is special.

[ZeL1nK]

That wasn't even really directed at you in particular. It was more aimed at Ooba's #6018.

I like you and I would be sad to see you killed.

I just wanted to make the point that there's too many neighborhoods giving each other a free pass and telling everyone else to look at hoods that aren't their own.

[ZeL1nK]

Also it was a general appeal to all the neighborhoods who are giving each other free town reads.

I've been getting overly paranoid that I'm giving my own hood town reads too easily, but I'm going to be looking at this a bit closer over the night phase (assuming I don't get lynched today).

[ZeL1nK]

There are 1/2/3 scum outside my hood - aim for them.

Almost every single hood is saying this. Either directly (like you) or indirectly (like mastin and snowflake-senpai suggesting their hoods are basically masonries).

At least your hood doesn't seem to be entirely town-reading each other, but it's unreasonable to ask people to look elsewhere and not award every other hood who says this the same courtesy. Which means lynching no one. Yay!

[ZeL1nK]

I do, actually. I am not sure how long your hood is, but there was 45 pages of lovely, friendly chit-chat I had the pleasure of reading through and it made me think they're town. But I haven't read enough of the game thread yet to form a proper read on them.

If (and this is currently something I don't think is the case, but entertaining the possibility) there is scum in my neighborhood, I would guess it's Espeonage.

But I intend to solidify or question my reads here when I read the game thread overnight (assuming I'm not lynched today).

[ZeL1nK]

Sorry, I guess it's not 100%, but I'm not thinking there's scum in the hood at the moment.

[ZeL1nK]

Esp On Wage is, indeed, love.

[ZeL1nK]

Too many silly questions ("Hey, who thinks the wagon on me is all town" etc).

I've asked questions that could perhaps be considered silly. That was not one of them. Though that question was before I realised there were only three options today and I'm significantly less interested in the answer now since I don't think there's much merit to thinking about that sort of thing, given the current situation.

I have nothing to say about your comment on me being flippant, other than the fact that you're completely wrong. I'm not trying hard at all, it comes as naturally to me as being able to hang a spoon on my nose. I'm just that talented.

I'd maybe actually shoot mastin if I was going that route.

For the roleblock wifom.

I will confirm that I did roleblock mastin N1, but I do not believe this prevented the kill. For starters, I believe mastin's response, which was something along the lines of, "ha! joke's on you! I didn't do anything last night," or something to that effect. But I'm also relatively certain other possibilities are more likely.

I would also be perfectly happy with a PV lynch.

As would I day2 or 3 or 4, depending on how night goes and if it can be managed right.

I would be okay with ZeL1nk being shot because of this - I don't like Pere's tone towards Tiphaine here. I think it's scum-scum.

To be clear: Is this the only reason you think I could be a bad guy?

And what do you mean by "tone"?

[ZeL1nK]

FourTrouble, if you're going to shoot someone today, just decide on someone and ask for a claim.

I'm actually feeling ill after having to read through the last several pages.

[ZeL1nK]

I don't think he's a baddie. But I don't like the way this situation has played out.

[ZeL1nK]

The is no motivation for FT as town to have not just taken the shot by now.

Town motivation isn't so black and white. I disagree with this notion.

It's looking like there's going to a last-minute scramble to achieve a lynch, where he is going to be lynched if he hits town and I am going to be lynched if he hits a bad guy.

I suppose the latter is not such a bad outcome all things considered (though from my perspective, it is unnecessary). I don't like the former much as an option.

[ZeL1nK]

I would also argue there's very little motivation if he's a bad guy, since dragging it out and then hitting town just makes him look worse. The only baddie motivation I could see is if he isn't sure whether he should take a shot at a buddy (in a gambit to seem town) or take a shot at town (and risk getting lynched because of it), and this is why he's taking a long time to decide. But I do not really think this is the case.

[ZeL1nK]

It's because people are gung-ho about lynching someone and there's 24 hours to the deadline.

But nobody has adequately explained why no lynching is such a bad option.

[ZeL1nK]

We're not lynching Today.

I would like that, but all I can see is an angry mob yelling, "grumble, grumble, we want blood!"

And it is very hard to ask why, when you're met with a wall of, "because it is written in stone that blood sacrifices are necessarily for the longevity of our tribe!"

[ZeL1nK]

It's rather fitting actually, in a game centered around gods.

Is there a blood god in smite?

[ZeL1nK]

How?

He shoots town that the majority didn't want him to shoot -> He's scum for shooting someone that wasn't scummy
He shoots town that the majority did want him to shoot - > He's scum for not taking responsibility

Does that also apply if a majority of the town suggest a scum player and he takes their advice and shoots them?

Or is he only town if he goes rogue AND hits scum?

[ZeL1nK]

The amount of role-related 'confirming' and weaseling our way around the setup is too high. Role does not confirm alignment. Play confirms alignment.

You are very wise, good sir.

People shouldn't instantly want blood for taking bad vig shots.

In a perfect world, all men would be as wise as you, but you and I seem to have not been reading the same game.

[ZeL1nK]

yawn

Good day, Mr O.

If it pleases you, would you kindly respond to the questions I asked in this post?

Thank you.

[ZeL1nK]

Okay here is the problem with a no lynch.
This game is at 252 fucking pages on day fucking 2.

And?

[ZeL1nK]

Look at Ms.

I would rather not, in all honesty. No offense to him. I'm sure snowflake-senpai is a great guy, but I feel like reading his ISO would be like staring at the sun. It'll just burn my eyes.

But that aside, you seem to be suggesting that proper play involves shooting from the hip (and I can assure you, no pun was intended here) rather than carefully considering all options and perhaps using your head. I'll take this piece of advice on board. Perhaps tomorrow people should lynch without any discussion. After all, it is pro-town to do everything impulsively. Thinking is what bad guys do.

[ZeL1nK]

FT is just twindling his thumbs hoping to escape the lynch today.

Surely he wouldn't be twiddling his thumbs. What if he accidentally pulled the trigger while doing that?

I think FourTrouble expects there to be no lynch today, so the idea that he's holding out to prevent a lynch is half-right but half-wrong. He's not holding out

to

prevent a lynch, he's holding out

because

there shouldn't be a lynch, ergo he can take his time to decide a target.

[ZeL1nK]

I don't necessarily agree that this is optimal play, but I thought I'd explain it for the people having trouble understanding why it's not a scum-motivated move.

[ZeL1nK]

Who are my ~3 partners, ooba?

[ZeL1nK]

Or who are FourTrouble's ~3 partners, since you think he's scum now?

[ZeL1nK]

So you have/had a genuine belief that I'm scum?

Or is that just possible partners you've been thinking about if I happened to be scum?

[ZeL1nK]

Or is that just possible partners you've been thinking about if I happened to be scum?

This.

I have (or rather had) a feeling all three gladiates were town after re-analysis.

Who did you think he should have shot? I just noticed you didn't offer any suggestions.

Who were you actually scum-reading before he took the shot?

[ZeL1nK]

Wait, never mind. I found the post where you offered suggestions.

[ZeL1nK]

Yah, that's not enough to change my view

Your oh-so-strong view is that... TD hasn't said much?

OK. That's almost so convincing that you've got me thinking maybe you're right and I am scum.

[ZeL1nK]

I'm not sure what the brambles thing is and dramonic hasn't told me anything about it. It has nothing to do with my character, I think (or if it does, I haven't been told about it). When I asked him for any information relevant to me/my role, he didn't even mention it.

[ZeL1nK]

If he's town, sorry. Couldn't shake the feeling he's scum and only other shot I'd take right now is Ozgin, which is dumb because we can lynch him.

Why was theaceofspades not a consideration?

[ZeL1nK]

I like that he's questioning me to pump as much information (false or WIFOM as it maybe) if I'm scum.

That's not entirely why I was questioning you.

I'm just going to put it out there. If FourTrouble is not pulling a gambit here, he easily has time to delete the PM he sent dramonic, since it's obvious dramonic clearly hasn't picked it up. But I think most people should already be aware of this.

Because I thought this was possibly a gambit (and was unsure how much of your reaction was you playing things up because you expected it to be a gambit), I thought I'd ask you some things to see what you're able to say off the top of your head without time to carefully consider things.

Though right now I'm wondering why, if this were a gambit, FourTrouble isn't doing everything in his power to milk reactions.

[ZeL1nK]

Are you aware that you can just... delete whatever PM you sent if it's still in your outbox, and it won't go through? Or do you think you think ooba's reactions aren't town-looking?

Also,

If he's town, sorry. Couldn't shake the feeling he's scum and only other shot I'd take right now is Ozgin, which is dumb because we can lynch him.

Why was theaceofspades not a consideration?

[ZeL1nK]

outbox->open the message you sent->delete

[ZeL1nK]

Honestly, I would prefer Theaceofspades over ooba (or Ozgin, since that can be dealt with easily via lynching down the line, without the baggage of killing two people), since it's a less polarising option and the mass pitchforks and fire if ooba is town is going to ensure your lynch (which, if you're town, is not-so-great a thing IMO!).

[ZeL1nK]

My reads aren't anywhere near solid (since I have only read small chunks of the game), which is why I've been refraining from offering suggestions. I'm just noting that I do think some people (particularly Imperium) have brought up somewhat valid points for why ooba could be town, and I don't think his reactions were all that scummy (and didn't come across as fake to me, but also weren't something beyond-impossible to fake).

[ZeL1nK]

Incidentally, I also don't think theaceofspades has the highest of chances of flipping scum, but of the options that were on the table, seemed the best of them.

You can't shoot Skybird (or it's ill-advised to do this), who would probably be my first choice barring role shenanigans. I'm not sure how much of this is an issue with her playstyle in particular, but her posts read very mechanical and the thought processes she's presented don't come across as town to me. I also have other reasons I suspect her that aren't important to discuss in public as of yet, but this is not overly important since she shouldn't be shot.

ooba I'm wavering on (and will kick myself for trying to prevent the shot if ooba turns out to be scum), but I currently think he's more likely town than scum.

Ozgin probably shouldn't be touched today, which is unfortunate since he is the only scum read I have any confidence in with what I've read so far.

Which leaves, of the available suggestions, theaceofspades. I actually don't think his posts scream scum in any way, but they're just not... town-looking. He makes comments here and there that strike me as lazy, but they're also the sort of comments I could see town who is trying to stay afloat in a sea of spam making. Nothing he's done has made me super-confident he's scum (though some of his posts do not make me feel so great and his relative lack of involvement in this game looks somewhat like coasting), I just can't point to anything in his ISO that made me think, "yes, this is a town post." He is, however, someone who a lot of people think could be scum, which makes him not the worst possible shot, purely for the fact that people want to see him dead. He's just not a shot I would make if I were wanting to hit someone who I thought had a very good chance of flipping scum.

This probably sounds like a lot of waffling, but my understanding of the game is so incomplete that I can't offer anything better. I don't know who you should shoot, and I'm not going to pretend I can offer any good advice. These are just my thoughts.

[ZeL1nK]

Actually, going over theaceofspades ISO, I don't really think he's scum. There's a lot of little posts that look more town~ish than scum, even if none of them are rock-solid town-looking posts. It's mostly the nuance the posts carry, I guess.

So I really don't have any suggestions for who a good shot is.

[ZeL1nK]

Just as a quick example of what I mean by that,

i think little. hes a replacement he's reading. Has initial impressions that can change.

Nothing exciting. Posts are townie.

This sort of post is one I'd consider town~ish, for the nuance the last line carries. It was an unnecessary addition if he's scum. He could have just left it out. Nothing rock-solid, but little things like this are things I attribute as more likely to come from town than scum.

I don't want to break down his entire ISO, but little things like this are what make me think he could be town.

So, yeah... I don't know who you should shoot.

[ZeL1nK]

......
derp. idk why i did that. I never meant to.

UNVOTE:

and it's town because it's not scum. So i suppose it's null. But changing your mind isn't scummy. And is a reasonable expectation from a replacement who's catching up. Views change an evolve.

This post is another example of one that felt town~ish for the nuances in the way he describes his feelings.

Nothing amazing. It just feels like something more likely to be genuine than a fake thought process.

[ZeL1nK]

He's probably serious. Those tusks look sharp.

[ZeL1nK]

Whatever.

I'm a modified vig. If you want Ozgin dead, it's better to no lynch and tell me to shoot him. Strictly better.

I'm going to repeat my earlier request for a full list of claims on the table.

For what it's worth, I also have a killing ability (it's not a vig shot, per se, but it's like a vig shot if a lot of different conditions are met - currently those conditions haven't been met).

[ZeL1nK]

Even if that claim is serious (and that would not surprise me at all), I am still against lynching him today (or lynching at all).

[ZeL1nK]

(And also it seems rather obvious that, unless that move was coached, Cephrir is unlikely to be scum with him.)

(I would not rule out coaching 100%, but the likelihood he wants to die to take down Cephrir-town seems a little higher to me at the moment. I would not bet the game on this, though.)

[ZeL1nK]

'twould be nice if FourTrouble were to pop in and say hi and confirm he has read recent posts.

[ZeL1nK]

Order vs Chaos seems to be how SMITE is divided (like sentinel vs scourge, or dire vs radiant).

So yes, that would be a good assumption.

[ZeL1nK]

Or whatever LoL has, but honestly, who cares about that game? lol (no pun intended).

[ZeL1nK]

I don't think we should lynch zelink because he was blocked on D2 trying to target TD and I don't really think that's a scum move, but maybe I'm just crazy.

I don't really like using pieces of information to confirm myself, but even if you didn't think I am town for other reasons, this alone should be almost-conclusive evidence.

Also, do not think the likelihood of this being a gambit is very high at all (too well-acted in too many respects), so FourTrouble is also practically confirmed in my eyes.

I think Skybird is also significantly less likely to be scum based on recent interactions with Cephrir, too.

[ZeL1nK]

Also, I'm slightly more confident that theaceofspades is town than I was previously. Cephrir was advocating him as an alternative vig shot to ooba after FourTrouble cancelled the first one. Might have been a gambit, probably wasn't.

[ZeL1nK]

vezopikari probably isn't scum with Cephrir, either.

[ZeL1nK]

There are a number of other reasons vezopikari's claim makes him likely town, but yes, that happening at the start of the D2 before anyone else had claimed responsibility for the lack of kill makes it more likely he's town.

It probably isn't important to delve into right now, anyway.

[ZeL1nK]

I guess I should start assuming I'm dead. I'm not 100% sure whether I should out the last thing I have to out to my neighborhood, or to here, or not at all.

Perhaps obviously, that thing has to do with my crumbs around The Mask yesterday.

Does anyone in the Cephrir hood have any idea what this is talking about? Or, really, anyone who knows what this is referring to can answer.

[ZeL1nK]

I assumed that, but I wanted to know what crumbs he was referring to.

[ZeL1nK]

I like reading mastin's incremental catch-ups.

It's akin to showing someone the Red Wedding and watching them react when you've read the books.

[ZeL1nK]

I can't wait til she gets to the part where they're at the feast.

She's never going to see it coming.

[ZeL1nK]

She paused the episode.

You can't do that.

That's cheating.

[ZeL1nK]

Andrius and Espeonage have been removed from the game!

Right. Get an explanation for this power use D4.

There was something about Andrius not having a vote today. We didn't get a chance to talk during the night, since our dear friend left us a short way into the night phase.

The two of them being passionately in love with each other (as may or may not be obvious from reading their posts) is another potential reason. They make a good couple. I'm happy for them and I wish them the best of luck together.

[ZeL1nK]

Vote: Anamikus

I think Anamikus could very well be a good guy but I am considering the possibility of lynching him anyway.

There is merit to doing this but I'm not certain it is the best plan for today. It's still an idea that could be considered.

[ZeL1nK]

Oh. And know how I said I could prove myself today?
THAT was dependent on me ACTUALLY submitting a NIGHT ACTION which by virtue of me NOT BEING HERE, I did not.

I think I'd still like to hear what this is about and, more importantly to me, why the two people in your neighborhood are confirmed town to you.

Sonic, don't vig TSO.
I can't confirm he is town, sadly, but he IS *probably* town.

I would also like to hear what this is about, given you apparently haven't performed an action yet.

I am aware that you've claimed to be a god of scum hunting so I may be asking too much of you as someone who could only dream of being like you, but it would be deeply appreciated if you would be so gracious as to share your wisdom with the rest of us, peasants we may be in your eyes, insects we may seem before you.

[ZeL1nK]

I may be overstepping my bounds, oh Glorious One (I apologise if I am being too informal with this title), and I can only beg that you'll forgive me for my insolence, but I personally do not see you, the people in your neighborhood or TSO as very high on the bad guys' priority list of "doo-doo we have to deal with in this doo-doo-storm of a game".

For that reason, I do not see much harm in you revealing to us a glimpse of your greatness, if you would be so kind.

[ZeL1nK]

A full-claim is not necessary. Just explanations for the things that require an explanation. Explaining things is a good way to make people agree with you. What she's doing seems like the equivalent of a small child telling you they went exploring with pixies and dwarves today, and found buried treasure. It would be great if it were true, but it's hard to determine the accuracy of the statements she's making when you ask her for details and she tells you she can prove it because she has fairy dust and gold in her pockets but she's not going to show you them until later.

I'm not even interested in whether mastin can prove herself to be town, I am more interested in the other people she thinks are confirmed or probably town.

[ZeL1nK]

One of the weaker aspects of my role allows me to know that, with a 95% margin of accuracy, TSO targeted you last night, MS.

Is this true, TSO?

[ZeL1nK]

I was asking whether TSO targeted Snowflake-senpai.

I don't care whether or not TSO knows what your role does.

[ZeL1nK]

I would still like to know whether TSO targeted Snowflake-senpai (and with what).

[ZeL1nK]

Wait. I protected sonic last night, but I didn't protect-protect him. I made him action immune.

Dear Mr Pikari,

How has life been treating you lately? Me? I've been doing great. I left my boring nine-to-five job cooped up in a cubicle to start my own laundromat business. It's been a bit slow getting off its feet but I get to spend each day watching clothes spin around in circles and life couldn't get any more fun... Really.

Anyway, I'm writing to you today because I have an important matter to discuss. While I believe you to be a good guy with pure intentions, it occurs to me that you quite possibly have made the worst night action choices imaginable this game. Please stop that.

Do not protect Snowflake-senpai. Ever. While Snowflake-senpai might be a bastion of proper town play, with reads so good that he hasn't been wrong once this game (if you don't count all the times he's been wrong), I think if the bad guys want to melt him, you should let them. There are far better targets than Snowflake-senpai if your role is that powerful. You want me to give an example? How about... Anyone. Yeah, literally anyone.

Please keep this in mind when choosing future night actions.

Yours sincerely,
ZeL1nK

[ZeL1nK]

Lots of big words that mean stuff.

I agree with the logic in this post to a degree.

I am not so certain it means anything given the player in question, though. I mean no offense to mastin, but she does not seem to be the most... level-headed person in this game, if you know what I mean. She seems like the kind of person to drop a pencil in the middle in the middle of a crowded room, yell, "oops, I dropped something," quite loudly and then slowly bend over and pick it up, without understanding the repercussions of her actions or why so many men might happen to be staring at her. That is the impression I get when reading her posts.

[ZeL1nK]

I would still like to see a full explanation of why mastin's neighbors are confirmed town to her and what the TSO thing was about. Preferably with at least 95% less beating around the bush.

[ZeL1nK]

Full. Explanation.

ZZZX is one of the people I think could very well be a bad guy and I'm sick of seeing, "oh, leave him alone, he's definitely town!" when I am fairly certain most people would have a laughing fit to the point of falling down on their knees in tears when they hear you're serious about whatever information you have that suggests this.

No offense.

[ZeL1nK]

There is a limit to how patient I can be with the silliness surrounding this, "just one more day!" stuff.

It's probably readily apparent that I (and a lot of others, it seems) are getting fed up with this secrecy.

So I'm going to ask you kindly, mastin. Please stop hiding information because you think you know better than everyone else. You don't.

No one in your neighborhood is a high priority target for the bad guys (and likely never will be, with the exception of possibly Xombie, but only because he looks town, not for anything he's actually doing). If whatever information you have makes them a high priority target then, honestly, that's a good thing. Your roles are probably of no more or less use than the rest of the roles in the game and you think way too highly of yourself if you think otherwise.

We're in a good position at the moment. There is virtually no harm in revealing the information you have if it allows people to get a better understanding of not only why your neighbors are town, but why your thought processes are coming from a town mindset.

Do you actually have a reason, Or is it gut, Or is it just that I am scum in your point of view somehow?

Here is the sum total of your contributions to this game:

[ZeL1nK]

You're part of a pool of about nine people I am relatively certain contains the rest of the bad guys in this game.

Of that pool, Anamikus is probably a good utility lynch somewhere down the line just for the sake of activating FourTrouble's vig shot, so I'm not too worried one way or another about him (even though I think he's more likely town than scum at this point, this feeling is nowhere near as strong as I'd like it to be).
Two others in that pool I could see as being town, if not for small niggles holding me back.
Two others in that pool I think look far more town than you based on play so far.
One in that pool is unable to be voted today, so it doesn't matter what I think of him. And he's very charming and good-looking and I would feel bad about lynching him anyway.

[ZeL1nK]

And I may be harping on this point, but again, the sum total of your contributions to this game:

[ZeL1nK]

Copy paste fail.

[ZeL1nK]

Wait, no. Copy paste worked. I just can't see anything when I do it.

Hmm.

[ZeL1nK]

Could be PC issues on my end. Maybe I need a new computer to see what ZZZX has done this game.

[ZeL1nK]

Yes. That may have something to do with the fact I replaced into a 230-page game approximately 3 days before the deadline.

Or it may not. Who knows?

If your excuse is that you've provided exactly as much content as someone who just replaced into the game so it shouldn't matter that you have no worthwhile content to speak of, then, uh... OK. Rock solid defense, I don't have anything else to say. You're confirmed town in my eyes now.

[ZeL1nK]

Though I'd wager I've provided far more content than you (both in the game thread and in the neighborhood, but you're obviously not privy to the latter and I do not feel the need to publicly post all my opinions on the game at the moment).

[ZeL1nK]

I dunno, I cant see it on my end either.

If copy paste worked it could be a symptom of a bigger problem.

By the way, you are among the people I am not confident in calling town.

There are small things in the way you and your predecessors played that make me think you could very well be town, but nothing you've done has given me a sense of really-town-looking-posting and your interactions with flipped scum (and really, everyone) have been minimal. Which doesn't make me feel great, but then a song starts playing in my head

Da da da, da da da, da da da
That's just TWIE,
Some things will never change,
That's just TWIE,
That's just The Waaaay Iiiiit Eeeeendsssss!

I'd still like it if you, I don't know, tried looking a little more town if you're town? It would be helpful to know who you want to lynch today, for example.

[ZeL1nK]

No

[ZeL1nK]

Did you mean grating instead of great?

Similar words with

slightly

different meanings.

[ZeL1nK]

When do you start

being

town?

[ZeL1nK]

TSO,

Why do you think mastin is scum?

Also, I'm still waiting for you to respond to this, if you would be so kind as to oblige...

I would also be perfectly happy with a PV lynch.

As would I day2 or 3 or 4, depending on how night goes and if it can be managed right.

I would be okay with ZeL1nk being shot because of this - I don't like Pere's tone towards Tiphaine here. I think it's scum-scum.

To be clear: Is this the only reason you think I could be a bad guy?

And what do you mean by "tone"?

[ZeL1nK]

I agree with 6663.

Please use your actions in the most incredibly anti-town way imaginable.

Thanks in advance.

[ZeL1nK]

VOTE: Anamikus

FourTrouble, please seriously considering killing ZZZX tonight.

[ZeL1nK]

Or TSO, but I would prefer if you kill ZZZX just to make a point to mastin.

[ZeL1nK]

VOTE: mastin2

this vote is scummy

how is it scummy? i called mastin scum 100 years ago. Nothing else is really grabbing my attention. Back to that.

Why is mastin scum?

Who else do you think is scum?

Who do you think is town?

[ZeL1nK]

Because votes were going in without anyone explain wtf was going on

Who do you think is scum? Why?

Who do you think is town outside your neighborhood? Why?

[ZeL1nK]

From a theory standpoint,

Lynch->Anamikus
Vig->TSO

Achieves the same result but gets rid Anamikus, who a fair few people think is scummy anyway, and allows FourTrouble to reset his lynch target.

I am also perfectly fine with TSO today, though.

[ZeL1nK]

The downside is TSO potentially survives if there's a way for scum to protect him / roleblock FourTrouble / if he's bulletproof / any other possibilities I'm not considering.

So technically lynching TSO today is probably a better option if you believe Anamikus is town (or less likely to be scum than others).

Still fine with either, really.

Just because I can,

UNVOTE: Anamikus
VOTE: TSO

[ZeL1nK]

I don't find (mastin-town, ZZZX-scum) a likely possibility at all.

OK. I do, though. If it wasn't incredibly obvious from the way I've been talking about it (maybe the fairy dust and buried treasure analogy didn't make it clear enough), I don't think mastin has a legitimate reason to believe her neighbors are definitely town. I fully expect mastin would, if she so desired, be able to to go on a nation-wide comedy tour with the explanation she's going to give tomorrow, with a full house at every venue she performs. It will be that much of a laugh.

But I have also lost all interest in trying to interact with any of them, so I don't care anymore.

[ZeL1nK]

I do not believe mas-"AP WAS SO TOWN YOU GUIZ ARE IDIOTS"-tin would not turn on D3 and be all "lol SK is dead we're in a good position".

I'm just going to reiterate what I mentioned in the neighborhood.

There is no actual contradiction here. mastin was saying that AP (as third party) was playing like he would as town (because that's how AP would play a third party role like that one). In this sense, he wasn't displaying the same scum tells he'd display as scum and he was also probably pushed by scum who thought he was town - which, for all intents and purposes, made him town. He was still a third party, though (albeit with potential to win with town, but that scenario was very unlikely).

[ZeL1nK]

I'm also pretty clearly not scum from interactions with Cephrir and roleclaim.

Could you talk about this in more depth?

I know I'm essentially asking you to talk about why you're not scum with Cephrir, but since you brought it up, you should be able to point to the interactions you think make it unlikely.

I ask because I think the interactions make it look like you're scum together.

I expect this will be ignored like the rest of my questions to you, so I'm not expecting much here.

I might write a case detailing exactly why I think you're scum, but this only seems important if there are people who think it's possible you're town.

[ZeL1nK]

Oh wait, are you referring solely to the part after you called him "warty"?

Because if that's it, then that's also a small part of why I think you're scum together (that looked like nothing more than distancing to me).

Was that the interaction you're saying can't be scum-scum? Or is there other stuff I'm missing?

[ZeL1nK]

"Oh, TSO visited Sonic; wait, TSO did NOT visit Sonic, but I still think he did!!!"

I don't think you're this oblivious, I think you're pretending you don't understand what's going on here, but I'll spell it out, anyway...

mastin thinks that the mod error was caused because you

did

visit Snowflake-senpai, but that you were blocked (by pikari). So whatever the original result was that suggested you visited Snowflake-senpai was the error, the fact that this was retracted leads her to believe that she wasn't meant to know you visited Snowflake-senpai (because it was blocked).

There's no rock-solid evidence that this is what actually happened, but it's not exactly hard to understand what mastin is saying here.

[ZeL1nK]

It is true that the night felt very fast

After this game I'm going to make a collage of some of the deeper, wiser posts you've made this game.

This might go among them, but I'm sure there will be so many to choose from that I'll have trouble narrowing it down.

[ZeL1nK]

Can always be a scum action instead of a town one, but meh

You're like Rudolph, Snowflake-senpai.

Except it's not a bright red nose but your keen insight that guides us through the darkness. And I am one of the mean reindeer that has been making fun of you. But now I'm repenting.

Thank you for being so town. I can see why you need protection. I would fear for my life if I, too, were producing such nuggets.

[ZeL1nK]

Spoiler: A very short treatise on why Chocolate is better than Vanilla

I think TSO may very well be a bad guy and, while it seems somewhat unnecessary given how many people seem to agree he's not good, I had nothing better to do with my time than writing a case on TSO, so I did. Yes, I cannot think of anything better to do than to spend time writing a case on someone that most people already think is a bad guy, but hey, there's no wet paint around and watching paint that's already dry doesn't have the same thrill to it.

Let's start with probably the most obvious reason he seems like a bad guy. There's a severe lack of content in his posts. What do I mean by content? Questions designed to discern information about another person's alignment, statements justifying stances, comments on events relevant to the game that provide insight into your thought processes. You know... Stuff that you can look at and think to yourself, "Hmm, yeah... I can see what he thinks and why he thinks that. I can see what he's doing and what he's hoping to achieve." What has TSO done in that regard this game? Not much. He's thrown out some reads here and there very early on in the game (which he never justified) but since then has not really given many thoughts on who he thinks is scum or town. He wrote a case on TD at one point and that's the only real push I can remember him making all game (and he seemed to drop it D2 in favor of poking fun at mastin for the AP flip, so it obviously didn't mean much to him in the first place). He has been asking some questions here and there that have arguably been worthwhile, but he never seems to do anything with the answers. It looks like he's just throwing out questions for the sake of asking questions and moving on. This is everything he's done this game that could really be counted as content. Which, in a 270-page game, is lazy at best. His initial excuse for the lack of content was exams (which apparently ended almost a month ago) but I think he was providing more content before this point, so that doesn't really cut it as an excuse.

The thing about all this that bothers me the most is I just don't understand

why

he's taken any of the stances he's taken this game. Take his current mastin push, for example.

Why

? The best I can tell is that he thinks mastin's stance on AP was scummy, and there was an off-hand comment about nonchalance towards shots, but that's as far as it goes in terms of a mastin case. In all the time he's been in this game, this is as close as he's ever come to giving reasoning for a mastin suspicion which he has apparently held since D1. It's like he's just running around random streets and yelling "VANILLA IS BETTER THAN CHOCOLATE!" and expecting people to take it for granted, when he should know that's not how things work. And yes, I know this is an awful analogy, because anyone who thinks vanilla is better than chocolate is so blatantly wrong that they should sit down and reassess everything they ever thought they knew, but the point of the analogy is that only scum think vanilla is better than chocolate. Or maybe it's something about explaining your reasoning. I forget. I think the point I was trying to make here is that if he's town, he should be saying something like, "Hey guys, here's what I think and here's why you should agree with me!" But this never happens. With the exception of the TD case (I use the term case very loosely here), which was when he was trying to derail a wagon on PV.

The lack of content is compounded further by the fact that he's spent a large portion of the game acting snarky or downright hateful towards people instead of scum hunting. In the early game, a lot of his content was centered around a petty fight with House. Later on, it's been repeated nonsensical questions about mastin's AP read - which I guess is ironic, given he later suggests he doesn't like mastin justifying the stance. Why would you keep questioning her about it if you don't want to see justification? Now, by itself, picking silly fights with people doesn't necessarily point to someone being a bad guy (as evidenced by our dear, departed friend F-16 who brought so much joy to this game), but when you're doing this

instead of

trying to find and lynch bad guys, it's just an excuse to boost post count and look like you're contributing to the game when you aren't.

And this is compounded

even further

when anyone even so much as whispers that there's maybe, possibly, perhaps a chance he could be a bad guy. What does he do when this happens? Crawls into a defensive ball and suggests there's absolutely no reason to scum read him (despite acknowledging his own lack of content at one point). His defense? Well, it's a good one. It essentially boils down to, "I haven't provided enough content for you to have a legitimate scum read, so your scum read must suck!" Truly one of the better defenses I've ever seen, if I'm being totally honest. Up there with, "Nuh-uh!" Which actually seems to be his go-to defense in rebuttal of Imperium's points against him. So two very strong defenses here... Yeah. Really, it's like he walked into a barn and passed gas and you're giving him a stern stare and he starts saying, "What? You can't prove it was me. It could have been any of the animals in here!" And you're just thinking to yourself, yeah, it could have, but the sound of the tooting clearly came from your general direction and your eyes look really, really shifty, so something's clearly up here. But I guess he's technically right; nobody can prove beyond a doubt that that he's the one with the upset tummy.

Now it doesn't necessarily entail that he's a bad guy because he's defending himself. Perhaps he legitimately thinks the cases against him are so weak they'd have trouble bench-pressing a bag of fairy floss. But he's devoting

a lot

of time to arguing that nothing he's done makes him a bad guy, and so very little time actually contributing

actual

content. Even when someone directly asks him to provide content (like Magua recently), he'd rather argue with them about how his lack of content doesn't make him scum. This is far more indicative of a bad guy's mindset than a good guy's. He's using people's suspicion of him as a platform to, again, seem like he's writing content when in actuality, his posts are as shallow and empty as the lyrics to a One Direction song. And, again, if there were

any

content anywhere in his posts, this wouldn't be as much as a problem as it is, but he's simply not providing any in favour of doing stuff like this.

As far as interactions with currently flipped bad guys goes, I think Imperium did a good job summarizing what was suspicious about TSO's interactions with PV in 4582. I also think his justification for this (that he doesn't like pushing null reads) looks like a poor excuse for the awkward way he interacted with the PV wagon. This just looks like a bad guy who doesn't want to bus his buddies.

But what about Glazed Ham? Well, his only real interactions with Pork Chops can be summarized as thus: Calling him town, calling him town some more, getting angry that Mouthwatering Slices of Delicious Bacon isn't explaining a scum read on him. Yes, this is literally all of the somewhat meaningful interactions between the two. They never really engage each other, they never push each other (granted, with yesterday playing out the way it did, this isn't as strong a point as it could be), they never asked each other any meaningful questions, they never went into any depth on their reads on each other, and so on and so forth.

Yet TSO would have us believe that these interactions are oh-so-town. Because he yelled expletives and declared Gammon an unholy abomination after declaring him to be town all game? Yeah, that sure as heck could not have come from partners in crime. No way, no how.

The mental image I get from all this is TSO, covered in blood, with a knife in his hand, standing over a body with multiple stab wounds, looking at me and saying, "Well, you'd have to be crazy to think I'm the one who did this. Clearly,

clearly

I'm innocent."

And finally, but probably the most important of all my points... Look at TSO's avatar. Notice anything different? Yes, he's changed it. Before, his avatar was somewhat lighthearted in nature, if a bit serial-killer~ish. Now, though? It's full-on evil. No ifs or buts about it. Why did he change his avatar? Well, the answer seems obvious to me. Feelings of evil that developed as part of receiving a bad guy role PM in this game have overwhelmed him and this is reflected in the mindset that led to him switching to an even more evil-looking avatar.

Honestly, all of this is only the tip of the iceberg. I could break down his posts in more detail and talk about what I think is wrong with his mindset at different stages of the game, but the key point here is that there's a severe lack of town-looking content in his posts (I'd argue none at all, really, since the little content he's provided has looked like pushing a scum agenda).

This is why last night when I was discussing reads in the neighborhood, I came up with a special category for TSO and TSO alone.

It is the bottom tier of my reads, reserved for people I think are truly bad guys beyond redemption.

If you were to say to me, "ZeL1nK, my friend! How have you been? Nice haircut. Have you lost weight? Anyway, I think it's quite possible the spawn of Satan is among this otherwise upstanding player list full of great people. If you had to guess who it is, who would you say?" I would respond with, "Well, it must be..."

TSO

I write all this not just because I have far too much spare time on my hands and lead far too sad a life to have a better hobby, but because it is my hope that people not get too distracted with mastin shenanigans and lynch-bait like TAOS. If TSO is not lynched today, and doesn't die tonight, he should at least be lynched tomorrow.

I think we can all agree that the take-away from this is anyone who thinks vanilla is better than chocolate can be none other than a bad guy. You're free to have favorites that are neither, but on this critical issue, there can be no debate (if you're a good guy).

I may have rambled on a bit here, but I hope I've shown just how passionate I am about chocolate.

[ZeL1nK]

Because I'll tell you, from where I'm sitting, it really feels like you just made your "report" up

I sincerely doubt this is the case but it seems rather pointless to keep talking about this. It's best just to pretend it didn't happen.

[ZeL1nK]

But the whole reason TSO is voting / pushing mastin is because of that report.

No. TSO was pushing mastin before that.

(Also not sure what the further follow up is meant to mean, given that appears to be what mastin assumed and seems to be why mastin initially suggested TSO was probably town.)

[ZeL1nK]

(Also I don't think TSO is getting lynched today and I will probably be switching to Anamikus at some point, but voting TSO feels pretty nice and I would encourage you all to try it once. Just don't over-do it because it can be addicting.)

[ZeL1nK]

Then mastin says "TSO visited Metal" and bam, TSO votes mastin

Still the incorrect timeline.

mastin certainly did not assume that. I point you to

I don't know what you're arguing here.

You said mastin should have assumed a town role. That is (or at least appears to be) what mastin was assuming before the mod announcement...

I'm not sure what the 95% thing is about (though I assume it's related to the possibility of a role interfering with the result), but I don't see a problem there. It seems like a logical assessment of a situation where she

thought

she had information that suggests TSO visited Snowflake.

I don't really want to speculate on what happened with the mod error, but there are really obvious logical conclusions that you're not drawing here.

[ZeL1nK]

I agree with (2), it was part of my thesis on why chocolate is better than vanilla. As was the first line you wrote in 6786.

And again, I would rather the whole incident regarding TSO->Snowflake just not be talked about. Unless you're just talking specifically about why mastin outed the information in the first place. In which case, I agree it wasn't a logical move but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Seems like information she could have, you know, just kept to herself as scum?

[ZeL1nK]

I mean, again, not something I personally would have done, but if you're suggesting it's scummy because it benefits scum to know that information, then the logical conclusion is that she's either being anti-town or scum already know the information and therefore don't need to out it publicly.

I lean more towards this being a decision made with a lack of forethought.

[ZeL1nK]

Well, if you go back and look at it, there

is

some logic to it, if you squint your eyes sideways and put yourself in mastin's shoes and think like mastin (as horrifying a prospect as that might be).

Namely, this...

Also, no harm in me saying the probtown, especially considering he's on MS's shortlist.

Sonic, don't vig TSO.

I think the best way to approach reading a mastin post is to pretend you're not you and just let your mind wander. Perhaps get high on something before even attempting it. Then suddenly, all the stars will align and the truth of the universe will be revealed. But it'll only make sense to you when you're not thinking like you normally do.

[ZeL1nK]

I'm sorry it didn't please you.

[ZeL1nK]

I'm getting lynched at some stage anyway, why even continue pretending I care about this game?

That's a good attitude to take. If only all mafia players felt the same way you did.

Why does anyone even bother to post anything at all? We're all going to die eventually. Life is pointless. Black is my favorite color, emo music is true art and it's simply not goth to care about a mafia game.

[ZeL1nK]

BTW I'm paying close attention to the thread; I'm just posting in the PT for the time being.

Good sir

Are you aware there is an overwhelming demand to see your heard on a pike?

[ZeL1nK]

TSO has been in my town pile until the last few pages. Gun to my head, I would still call him town.

I had to rub my eyes and make sure I wasn't seeing things when I read this.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on what exactly made you think he was town?

[ZeL1nK]

Yeah.

So?

Please walk me through your current mindset.

People want to lynch you, so you're... actively avoiding the game thread? Is it that we've done something to offend you? Or do you just not like us?

You feel compelled to reset your reads... because you think they're wrong or something?

[ZeL1nK]

@Drixx:

Skip this game thread.

Wiser words have never been spoken.

Why didn't you tell

me

this when I replaced in?

the slot's changed, but the absolute trust has not.

Oh my gosh!

That's beautiful. It brought a tear to my eye.

[ZeL1nK]

I thought that might make TAOS town, but then look at what happened around the PV kill.

Pumbaa actively shut down most of the alternatives to PV, suggesting they were worse shots.

He seemed rather bus happy, which is strange because I don't imagine there were very many buses in the Lion King.

TAOS could be town. What you just quoted is probably not the greatest reason to think so, though.

[ZeL1nK]

Perhaps it is more appropriate to say he was willing to throw PV under the wildebeest stampede. That seems more appropriate as terminology to describe it than bus-happy.

[ZeL1nK]

Poor Mask

Even in death, you're not a strong town read of mastin's

[ZeL1nK]

I think Anamikus is town.

VOTE: Anamikus

[ZeL1nK]

How is that not the best thing to do?

This day is going nowhere. Some people are fixating on mastin. Others are fixating on Anamikus. Nobody wants to talk about other options. Nobody wants to talk about

anything at all

, really.

How about you all stop hiding in your neighborhoods and start contributing to the game?

Or just lynch Anamikus and get the day over with if none of you want to write anything worth reading.

I'm over trying to stimulate discussion when there's only two or three people who care enough to actually play the game right now.

[ZeL1nK]

Of the 17 people who can actually speak in game thread right now:

- TSO has basically given up and is refusing to provide any content (I don't blame him, though, since his team is in a really bad position).
- Anamikus refuses to give thoughts in the game thread. This is apparently a good attitude to take. Everyone should do it. The game thread is for votes and nothing else, after all.
- ZZZX, TAOS and Snowflake-senpai refuse to write any relevant content. I have only a vague idea about one or two of their reads, and no idea why those reads exist. I legitimately cannot remember the last time Snowflake-senpai wrote something that moved the game forward in some way.
- I don't know where Imperium, Farside or Heartless are and what they've been doing. Farside seems to be trying to catch up or something? Heartless seems to have a burning desire to see a couple people dead and I think this must be preventing them from writing content or something. Imperium are just... not here. I believe Imperium thinks the scum team is comprised mostly of alcohol and they're doing their best to scum hunt in their own way?
- FourTrouble wrote a post saying he'd catch up some time soon and that's his only post today.
- TWIE gave some reads then went back to being TWIE.
- pikari seems to have made it his mission to talk about why mastin is still scum in every post he writes today.
- I don't remember what Ooba has done today outside of calling Anamikus scum.

Of the rest,

- mastin is bogging the game down with walls that most people would rather not read, but at least there's content sprinkled throughout here and there (I think... I'm just guessing because, honestly, who reads mastin's posts?)
- Skybird is rather light on content, but is at least providing it and answering questions (the latter of which seems to be a long-lost skill in this game).
- Drixx just replaced in so I don't have anything to say about him, really.
- Magua is basically the only person trying to move the game forward in some way, even if he is obsessed with a longing to see mastin's bloody corpse.

I don't even think this is an unfair assessment of what's happened today. The game state is just that sad at the moment.

Everybody seems to have lost interest or doesn't care enough to write anything worth reading.

Yay. Fun game.

Just get the day over with if you're all going to be like that.

[ZeL1nK]

I believe the latter is a better option even if I am kinda rusty atm

Then

DO

something.

Because your fantastic strategy of sitting back, ignoring questions and posting zero content while waiting for people to claim scum doesn't seem to be working!

[ZeL1nK]

including my reads, reasons

Oh, really?

What are your reads? Where have you mentioned them? What reasoning have you given for any of them?

What questions have you been asking to sort out the playerlist?

What commentary have you been giving on people's posts in the form of stances?

What exactly

have you done

?

These are all of your posts since Cephrir died...

Spoiler:

Can I get why people think mastin is scum again?

CAN SOMEONE JUST FREAKING EXPLAIN WHAT THE * is going on here and not ignore me?

*SMASH HEAD BY WALL*

STOP/IGNORING/ME people...

I can confirm the tso part being said before all this crap happened (in the neighborhood)

but i dont get why mastin suddenly is considered scum suddenly

o-great metal can ou explain to me?

p-edt: but why suddenly now?

was it because of the promised action today?

It is actually interesting. Even if things were not clear its kinda surprising how fast it happened (somewhat) but I guess we should deal with TSO first.

I think you said you already had a bodyguard on you. I cant think of many town roles that would want to target another town player... right?

THe thing is even if scum targeted mastin it wouldnt end up in a simple way. Its hard to explain tbh

Ok ...
I so want to vote the mod right now. my head hurts...

Ill pretend that i saw nothing

anyway... where were we?

Yea. All became clear by day 2 when mastin tried to set his plan in motion just to figure out its not qhat he thought it is.

Honestly from the brotherhood he looks 100% legit.

Mastun didnt talk at the neighborhood until the day when it was written that he forgot to submut(his ownw ords)

But I can see his acitivty was too low recently

But from a role side he is town. But that's all I can tell you.

Its complicated but mastin doesn't need to submit foe that (according to his role)

Like 10feb

I never dull claimed. I have claimed most of my stuff early on. I got cleared at night 1 basically thou

Nope. It was an actions interaction.

And zombie was cleared d1 somewhat.

Do you actually have a reason, Or is it gut, Or is it just that I am scum in your point of view somehow?

because you say you have information.

Information = facts/reads

Facts cannot be true unless you are lying about them (which ends up in the silly silly point of getting lynched after me)

and reads... were not supplied.

The sum of all you said is... Nothing about me at all.

Note2: effort =! Alignment

Note3: I didn't see you do much good either. Just a lot of fluff

Because votes were going in without anyone explain wtf was going on

Right now I believe a tso lynch can basically clear our whole neighborhood if he was scum. Its a pretty informative lynch

Also tso. Claim?

As soon as pressure shifts from tso even slightly he just disappears.

something I know him for doing..

VOTE: TSO

Maguna's posts also indicate town.

by report do you mean action?

to be honest I cant really build anything off that.

Let me ask this but instead ask why would you vote someone who you tihnk he will be town again? for the vig? I believe thats... not the best thing to do right now.

so is getting a town read as the target for the "lynch" better or trying to read other "null" people here?

I believe the latter is a better option even if I am kinda rusty atm

I AM doing something

including my reads, reasons, and a way for players to read me (from my posts)

am I missing anything I should be doing? I am not ignoring any question and I am posting content but it is ignoring and considered just random stuff.

You have:
- Given a town read on Magua, a scum read on TSO (not really, but you voted him, so close enough, I guess) and a town read on mastin.
- Of these, you've given a one-liner explanation for one of them (TSO disappears when people pressure him) and alluded to reasons you can't talk about for why mastin is town.
- You've asked no questions of anyone except when they state a scum read on you or mastin. And then it's just, "why?"
- You directly ignored my questions in #6674.
- You directly ignored Magua's questions in #6701 and #6783
- You half-responded to Imperium in #6656 but then directly ignored their (correct) response in #6671

So yes, you have been ignoring questions. You haven't given or explained reads (with the exception of a grand total of... three people... four if you include the Xombie slot). The

only

questions you've asked have been reactionary.

[ZeL1nK]

Oh wait, I suppose you technically answered Magua's question, but the response was so vague that I'm not counting it as an answer. And you ignored the follow-up question about

why

it would clear your neighborhood.

[ZeL1nK]

I also have a 1x day vig (it's my ult and it also makes me 1x bulletproof if I kill scum with it).

[ZeL1nK]

Well I think magua reads are shit

Which ones?

[ZeL1nK]

There is one name I would remove from that town list. There are a few names I would add. Other than that, it's in line with my own thoughts.

[ZeL1nK]

It's not a "scum list", per se. It's a list that he thinks contains all the scum. It means he's confident about everyone outside that list being town. Except mastin...

[ZeL1nK]

In case it wasn't obvious, the difference between a "scum list" and a list of players that you think contains all the scum is that the latter doesn't imply you're scum reading all of those people, just that there aren't strong reasons to think they're town.

[ZeL1nK]

are you up for lynching ankamius? he became scummy.

Not really!

I know based on the interaction in the PT there is no way PV and anka are scum together so I will be very much against that lynch.

I don't think he's scum. I would rather lynch TSO. Nobody else wants to do this. I don't know why.

At the moment, nobody seems to want to do anything at all in this game and it doesn't help when Anamikus himself is being unhelpful (I don't care what he's doing in your neighborhood if there are no visible signs of content in the game thread).

I see value in the utility of his lynch even if he is town, to get rid of a distraction and activate FourTrouble's vig shot and reset his target.

Though I would still rather see TSO dead today because so many things can go wrong with an attempted vig shot.

[ZeL1nK]

- Ankamius possible scum partner - disappears from the list of scummy people after FT discloses his shot

I disagree with this. Pumbaa seems like the kind of bad guy who is hyper-aware of who his partners are and how he's treating them at all times.

If anything

, I think this sort of thing is a minor point in favor of Anamikus being town. Though this point is so minor that I would not argue it strongly, I still think my interpretation is more likely than yours.

[ZeL1nK]

Now why is Vezo a town read?

If it is not an inconvenience for you, could you please read the start of D2 and give me your thoughts on pikari's posts about Pumbaa?

While this is not the only reason I'm thinking pikari could be town, it is the strongest of them. I do not think it is absolutely impossible for a bad guy to do something like this, I think it seems far more likely to come from a good guy wanting a pat on the head for doing a service to the community (even if it was a not-so-great night action choice in retrospect).

[ZeL1nK]

Now why is Vezo a town read?

If it is not an inconvenience for you, could you please read the start of D2 and give me your thoughts on pikari's posts about Pumbaa?

While this is not the only reason I'm thinking pikari could be town, it is the strongest of them. I do not think it is absolutely impossible for a bad guy to do something like this, I think it seems far more likely to come from a good guy wanting a pat on the head for doing a service to the community (even if it was a not-so-great night action choice in retrospect).

To be clear, it's not just

what

he did, but

how

he did it that makes me think this.

[ZeL1nK]

Who do you guys think I should shoot?

I would say TSO because I think that slot needs death for a variety of reasons (among them, potentially clearing up the situation with mastin if TSO turns out to be scum, which I think is very likely, but also just because TSO has the highest chance of being a bad guy).

But I do not expect your vig shot to actually go through if TSO is your target (unless the bad guys have absolutely no way of preventing a kill on him) so I don't think it matters, really.

If you really don't want to shoot TSO for whatever reason (though I would hope this reason is better than, "he's looking up at me with those cute puppy-dog eyes and I couldn't possibly put him down!"), TAOS is a good alternative. I don't have any strong feelings that TAOS is a bad guy, but he quite clearly isn't interested in playing the game right now and that

is

the kind of player a vig role should be taking out.

I'm fully expecting TAOS to come back in another 2-3 days and say, "let's lynch mastin!" one more time without providing any real content. And that's almost, but not quite, as helpful as one of Snowflake-senpai's posts. I don't even think TAOS is reading the game at the game at the moment.

[ZeL1nK]

Just shoot someone who really shouldn't be in the game. TSO or TAOS. If it's not TSO, he should be lynched tomorrow.

I'd prefer if he's lynched today, though.

And again, just because I can and I feel like it,

VOTE: TSO

He's scum. But let's continue ignoring this and lynch Anamikus, anyway.

[ZeL1nK]

Why is it so hard to get you lynched?

It's like opening a really difficult jar. Brute strength doesn't appear to be working. There's got to be some technique to it. Magic? A contract with Satan? There's got to be some way to do it.

[ZeL1nK]

I'm sorry that I lack the experience (and, I guess by implication, the skill) to know that you are quite obviously not a bad guy.

Who should I be sheeping? You seem like a really experienced (and good) player so whatever you think is probably right.