Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!

[Akbar]

Vote: Raffles

for having a dog avatar. Now, that's blasphemy.

Grrr....

Vote Wizardcat

[Akbar]

Raffles. you said that the attitude of the pros in this game isn't like "Die you noob"

But what I'm feeling right now is that either people saying I'm a scum because an average townie wouldn't act like this and build a wagon on top of me, or kind of defend for me but hammering "BIG NOOB" in front of my forehand like fuldu..

And by the end of the gmae. I would be labelled being a scum or a NOOB townie only

Well, actually you’re the one who started the noob label:

My role is a noob

You can’t play the noob card to avoid being found as scum and at the same time, say you don’t want to be remembered as the noob.
Announcing your playing while drunk isn’t helping either.

[Akbar]

@Remus
What do you feel Raffles was trying to sway us to believe?

[Akbar]

First of all, I never said "get rid of reyo

because he's annoying

", so this is entirely incorrect. Go back and read what I actually said.

Is this the phrase in question?

May we please rid ourselves of this nuisance?

[Akbar]

I personally don’t think Raffles had any intention of lynching Reyo. Their RL friendship and a desire to play Mafia together make it very unlikely. With that in mind, either Raffles was picking on Reyo for the fun of it, or he really believed he had laid the “bandwagon trap.”(Regardless of it’s effectiveness or lack thereof.)

The latter 2 options being non-scummy make me suspicious of Kison jumping on him. Kison’s entire case on Raffles seems to revolve around the fact: Raffles may have used “The Bandwagon Trap” scenario as an excuse to bandwagon. After that, follows what looks like a series of grammar nitpicking in the hopes Raffles will produce something more substantially scummy.

I also didn’t like how he denied saying Reyo was scum.

Legit scum tells? So you're sure that I'm a scum then.

A scum tell is something

indicative

of scum. So no, that does not mean that I'm certain.

That seems to contrast his earlier post:

May we please rid ourselves of this nuisance?

This statement is a request to finish off the person Kison is voting for. Either he was convinced Reyo was scum at the time, or he asked us to lynch a non-scum.

Unvote:Vote Kison

FOS OverTheUnder

For trying to create a lurker-hunter party.

[Akbar]

Assuming that wasn't a scummy "we," I hope you two being RL friends wouldn't be talking outside the thread. That would be very unsportmanlike.

[Akbar]

@Reyo

I don’t think we need to stop the game for rulings on you two playing together. As long as you know the rules, that’s good enough for me. It’s not like we’re playing for money or anything else worth cheating over.

That aside, I’m curious about post 233. I don’t follow where your suspicion is pointing to.

1st you pointed out how OTU jumping on the wagon was the likely “scum entry point.” This pointed to OTU. Now you’re saying that OTU’s maneuver was too scummy to be scummy, thus making the people wagoning him the opportunists. If the wagons are filled with opportunists, why bother splitting up the votes between him and raffles? Why not pile on 1 wagon?

[Akbar]

1st you pointed out how OTU jumping on the wagon was the likely “scum entry point.” This pointed to OTU. Now you’re saying that OTU’s maneuver was too scummy to be scummy, thus making the people wagoning him the opportunists. If the wagons are filled with opportunists, why bother splitting up the votes between him and raffles? Why not pile on 1 wagon?

That's why I dun know what's going wrong. maybe i'm trying too hard to think about about the issue. i'm not suspecting of anyone right now cos the plan didnt work out.

umm...

Everything I can say has already been said. Including the point I find most interesting, in that why the many possible reasons for the "we" from reyo?

That gets a serious, serious FoS.

Please reconsider your FOS. The reasons i gave are really what I think which made me use the "we" at the time i was typing. I dun analysis my own post 15million time to make sure its not scummy viewing in every single direction.

I hope that you would believe them or not believe them completely. If you are thinking that I'm making the reasons up and they are invalid, you are assumming that I've got a "we" plan and I've been planning on sumthing with someone outside the game. Then that would mean that I'm not adhering to the game rule ( either as a scum/ a town) (

my role doesn't allow me to talk with someone in the day time

). Therefore, i think you either pm the mod to find a solution to this if you dun believe in the reasons i gave, or treat it as I've used the word 'I" if you believe in them. FOSing me means you think i has been violating the game rules.

So your role allows you to talk with someone at night?

[Akbar]

I agree with Fuldu.

@OverTheUnder, Please claim now.

[Akbar]

@Fuldu
Actually, if OTU is a special role, the "ideal" plan to prevent a mislynch would be claiming, regarless if that's what you suggested or not. Only scum would persue a lynch on a potential power role with other canidates available.

Secondly, you tell him to present a defense for himself, as if he hasn't tried that already.

Third, you tell him to make a case against who he thought was scum. Are you skimming the thread? Did you miss this?

Okay sorry for the delay I was extremely busy yesterday. I wrote this sorta quick so don't blame me for the bad grammar. :'(

My list for Scum/Neutral/Pro-Town

Scum - BattleMage, didn't give a reason for voting me but then to go on and say "I voted him for no reason" DURING the Random Voting stage. Also he never answered the question of why he voted me. Reyo, has contradicted himself by saying "I was focused on the OTU vote" but it doesn't seem that way because he isn't even voting for me. Also by his way of saying "raffles doesn't need to give an explanation" and also by voting erratically.~n9v~ voted for someone without a plausible reason and hasn't posted again or posted any of his thoughts about anyone else. al4xz, voted me for no reason other then I'm aggressive that's JUST as bad as voting for no reason. Seems like a scum jumping onto the wagon just as it's about to lynch someone. This plus his "we need more active people" when he himself hasn't contributed hardly anything to this game and neither has he been active. PBug, has a argument against me that doesn't even make sense. Just seems like he's hopping on the wagon at the end with a crappy reason to vote for me.

Neutral - Raffles, doesn't look real scummy but did sorta throw me off with the L-6 argument seeing as how it's so WIFOM-y. Akbar, has asked some good questions and has contributed to the game some doesn't seem real scummy imo.Remuissadow - He's been active has asked good questions and seems like he's reading/understanding the game hasn't done much to seem scummy. Except for the "only scum use arguments over and over again theory." Theoper raised some good points and has contributed some so he's in my neutral for right now, same with ScareCrow.

Pro-Town - Kison, took me a bit to understand when he posted the "nuisance" thing but after I understand that he seemed to be more likely town. I also have to agree with his point of spamming "End story" it does make someone look deseperate to end the discussion. Mr. Flay has also asked some good questions and followed up on them but then to pull the "lurking argument" on me when Battle mage, and others have did the same thing seemed to be like he was singling me out. I'd like to hear more about his vote for me. Mastermind of Sin - Looks town asked some good questions just doesn't seem real scummy. Remuissadow - He's been active has asked good questions and seems like he's reading/understanding the game hasn't done much to seem scummy.


Unknown - DFG : All he said was "Vote OverTheUnder" so I'd like a bit more explanation from her before I decide where I stand with her position. CDB, WizardCat, Der Hammer, Fuldu, Bird haven't really contributed much so I can't get a good tell on them.

The interesting part is you FOSing me for disagreeing with your strategy. That's fairly pompous don't you think?

[Akbar]

@Fuldu
Point taken. OTU was at lynch -2 when I posted. If he is a power-role, I didn't want him to get quick-lynched and miss his chance to stop it.

[Akbar]

This is my 2nd multi-team mafia game played. In my other game, by page 25 we lynched 3 of our own townies, including a power role that fell asleep with a wagon on him. I think we faulted by not considering how quick the mafia teams would support a mislynch. Knowing that, makes we weary of why OTU is not lynched yet. Either, he’s scum and doesn’t have the votes of his team, or the players in this thread are much more calculated in who they vote for. I haven’t voted him because I couldn’t find much scummy about him, with exception to the already mentioned opportunism.

Right now I’m concerned with PBug and Kison. I had suspicions of Kison on page 8. But, I recently noticed a voting pattern with PBug and Kison.

PBug and Kison combo votes:
Pages 1&2 on XReyoX, after the XReyoX wagon fizzles, page 6&7 hop on Raffles, both attack raffles for his “End of Story” argument on page 7&8. By page 16 both were on OTU, after OTU’s wagon lost momentum, both shifted to Remus 17&18.

That being said, I think either PBug and Kison are extremely aggressive townies, one of them is scum latching onto a townie, or they are on the same team.

Unvote:Vote PBug

[Akbar]

If you were suspicious of me regardless of the voting patterns, then why did you choose to hop onto PBuG?

If you and PBug are a scum team, it doesn't matter who gets lynched first. PBug has OTU's vote on him. Perhaps OTU saw something else in PBug that I haven't. Either way, 2 votes on 1 scum is better than 1 vote on 2 scum.

[Akbar]

In regards to the Mod scene, I don't think ESE is Cult. XreyoX already pointed out if he was cult, both scumgroups would have missed they're turn/been blocked. I can't imagine our blocker(s) getting that lucky. I also don't think its important if ESE is Mafia or Wolf group. What is important is they killed each other. That would mean they have no 1 shot crosskill immunity. If they have no immunity, that means whoever our blocker(s) is/are protected a target last night. Thus it's likely whoever was protected is town.

Thanks to Mr. Flay and XreyoX for producing the Voting summaries. These are a great help. Knowing OTU is town, it's likely more scum were on his wagon than the ones hiding from it. Right now I'm suspicious of several folks on it.

Fuldu

Mastermind of Sin

DrippingGoofball
BattleMage

Mr. Flay

Remussaidow

PBug

Scarecrow
Theopor_COD

IH

Fuldu

Post 124: Fuldu places a lot of reasoning on Raffles being suspicious. Last paragraph states Fuldu has problems with the OTU wagon, and is suspicious of Raffles involvement with it. But, he votes OTU anyway.

Post 131: Again attempting to establish Raffles is not speaking the truth, but leaves his vote on OTU.

Post 187: He tells XreyoX he's being suspicious and should watch what he says.(This could be interpreted as instruction. But in 234 he draws suspicion on XreyoX from the use "we" in a sentence.)

Post 195: Clarifies the scummy actions to XReyoX. (Apparently not significant enough to change his vote from OTU.)

Nothing till page 15 & 16 where Fuldu and I get into an altercation about saving OTU's life. Still believe he should have held out on his role-claim?

Post 507: He blames Raffles for "dissuaded OTU from claiming." Although Raffles did tell OTU to hold off, Rereading page 15, you'll find Fuldu made it clear he didn't want OTU to claim yet either and Fossed me for thinking otherwise.

Mastermind of Sin

I don't find much of any reason to suspect MoS at this time.

DrippingGoofball

Most of DGB's posts have very little information in them. A couple that stood out are Post 290 where DGB takes time out to let us know she feels Remus is town when suspicion developed on him.(No opinions were made with other suspects. This could indicate a partnering.)

Before Post 555, XreyoX asked a pretty straightforward question directed at OTU's wagoners. "Why did you vote him?"
In Post 555, DGB ignores XreyoX's question and tries to flip it back on XreyoX. DGB is not only dodging the question, but is also trying to get XreyoX to provide answers for it as well.

Battle Mage

Post 111 looks like "protown fluff."
Post 207 is somewhat convoluted. OTU question's BM's reasoning for voting him. BM's reply translates roughly to "I have my reasons, and your scum because you voted me."
Pages 10 & 11 could be interpreted as role-fishing which abruptly stops after he gets the FOS from MOS. (that has a nice ring to it-FOS from MOS)
Post 497 is BM stating he's convinced of OTU being scum regardless of any defense presented.

Mr. Flay

I don't find much suspicion on Mr. Flay at this time. There were a couple posts trying to get Raffles to tell him what he knows. This could be analyzing the "worthiness" of a NightKill target. But, is more likely just curiosity.
I can understand Raffles strategy somewhat if he's truly town. He wouldn't want to draw attention from scums while he builds his case. The downfall being of course, us losing all that information if he gets whacked before "spilling the beans."

Post 548: Mr. Flay dodges XreyoX's question somewhat by demanding specific clarification.

Post 287 is Mr. Flay attacking Al4xz, which is a plus. It implies at least Flay is not ESE.

Remussaidow

In the early stages of the game, Remus appears to be putting on a show. In post 72, he inserts a disclaimer with his vote, just incase its taken the wrong way.

Post 126 is more fluff. He announces his willingness to vote any of 3 targets:OTU, Kison & Reyo(1 being a cop), but a desire to hold his vote for now. (This could be giving time to determine where the wagon momentum will go so he can join one rolling instead of being a founder.)

Post 137, just 11 posts later, he joins in the Raffles Fossing, which was lead predominantly by Kison, one of the players he announced he would vote for. (I would feel uncomfortable agreeing with someone I would vote for.)

Post 201, Remus said "Raffles, Kison, OtU, and reyo all seem to just be convenient targets right now." Apparently that's exactly what OTU was, a convenient target.

Post 289 is remus placing his vote on OTU now that a healthy wagon has bloomed. But, his vote was again accompanied with the disclaimer:
"That being said, I'm going to vote: OtU because I think that he is the slightly scummier of the two candidates.

this vote is very likely to come off though

."
Why would it very likely come off? Why even vote at all with that amount of uncertainty? I think it's to appear detached from a townie wagon while adding to its steam.

PBug

I don't find much scummy with PBug at this time. His similar voting with Kison may just be coincidence or it could be Kison latching onto a townie. Kison being absent of the OTU lynching being a plus as well.

Scarecrow

Scarecrow gives me the impression of a Serial Killer. He hasn't really posted anything to analyze. You could really speculate any role with him. He could be bored vanilla townie, reclusive power-role or just lurking scum.

Theopor_COD

Post 211 he defends BM some which could indicate partnering.(But, in post 414 he points out BM's scumminess for fishing in 260) He FOS's OTU & Scarecrow and then declares a hunch that MoS is scum. Now that a month is passed, do you still have that hunch and if so, could you elaborate on it? Also, what does the phrase "post some waffle" mean?

Post 414 & 417 He declares Remus to be more scummy than OTU.

By post 494 he's moved back to OTU. Was this from lack of support for the Remus wagon, or did you change your mind?

Post 546, voting DGB(which I agree with), and no mention of Remus.(which XreyoX pointed out) Care to elaborate?

IH

Right now I'm having trouble metagaming that IH is town. This is my 4th game with IH. The other 3 he was scum every frickin time.

Post 110 looks like "fluffy town" post.

Aside from that, not much to analyze. Several posts are just "carrot in front of the horse."
Post 92- "Probably a pbp sometime....."
(I don't think there was anything between 111 & 242)
Post 243- "I will most definitely be rereading over the thread, as I feel detached from this game.
There may or may not be a giant IH post."
Post 264- "I'm sorry for being lax in this game, probably tonight I will give a giant post, but from post 259, I believe Reyo is town."
(I don't think there was anything between 260 & 379)
Post 380- "Meep, sorry guys. I'll try to do a little bit of a reread, as I've let this game get away from me."
(I don't think there was anything between 381 & 505)

Post 515 seems to be the 1st content-related. In it he hammers OTU which doesn't look good. However, if he was lurking scum, I think he would have known OTU would be lynched by the deadline. Therefore I believe IH genuinely believed OTU was scum and just made a bad call.(Of course that doesn't make him town. He could be rival scummer trying to get brownie points for lynching what he thought was scum.) He also attacks Al4xz which is a plus.

Vote DrippingGoofball

[Akbar]

IH, Akbar, bird1111, PBuG, a little input here???

I think Shanba is scum based on his introductory post. In a recent game that finished, Music of Capcom, Shanba replaced a lone mason townie while we were in LYLO. At endgame, I was batting .800 with my votes (Townie, SK, Mafia, Mafia, Mafia). But, an excellent Mafia player, Primate, convinced Shanba I was the last scum, and we lost the game.

The point I'm making is not to apply blame to Shanba. At the end of Music of Capcom, I wished everyone GG and that was that. My point is Shanba's level of confidence in the post. I would be at least a little unsure about my investigative prowess if I was in the same spot. Yet, Shanba seems to have no such doubt. This to me looks like prior knowledge.

Right now, I'm worried about where my vote is because Shanba placed his on DGB as well. It doesn't mean both of them can't be scum. It's just less likely. I also didn't like being accused of Role-Fishing XReyoX and would like an explaination.

Unvote, Vote Shanba

[Akbar]

@MoS
Do you mean as in 2 mafiascum.net accounts, but only 1 player?

[Akbar]

@MoS
Ok, 1st off, I only have 1 account.

2nd off, your obviously not paying attention to what I'm saying because I just told you how we lost a game, with both of us town and Shanba voting against me. That would be a pretty strange way to cheat don't ya think?

[Akbar]

@Shanba
That is the gist of what I'm saying and you still haven't outlined where you claimed I was role-fishing XreyoX.

[Akbar]

@IH
In post 805, you should have just fossed me again, because I think I'm the only one who found Shanba's post suspicious. What's interesting is you suspecting distancing/bussing between me and Shanba, and then say Fos anyone suspicious of Shanba. Hows that work?
And your right, I'm probably metagaming some, but it doesn't change what happened. I can't pretend to not remember. This certainly wouldn't be the 1st time someone made analysis of another player based on actions performed in a previous game. Much like several people are doing with BM right now. ie. claiming he's not acting his usual townie self.

The thing that I noticed in post 795 is not the Raffles slip, but BM's response to it. His reply was:

you seem pretty over-protective of him, especially considering I DIDNT EVEN MENTION HIM.

Well, MoS is about the farthest person from protecting Raffles. Hell, he led the charge against Raffles. This means that BM is just randomly lashing out with whatever sounds incriminating at the time and not reading the thread.

Also of note, DGB's defense of BM's actions right now. If BM comes up scum, it could indicate DGB's alignment as well.

Unvote, Vote Battle Mage

[Akbar]

@Mr. Flay
I don't think your paying attention to my posts. The question is are you doing it intentionally. Don't you find it ironic that your alleged distancing theory didn't surface till Shanba replaced Remus? Right now I'm suspicious of BM, DGB, and Shanba. But, its not going to do us much good if a majority doesn't agree.

If your so convinced BM is a bad lynch, then state your reasons for thinking he's town. Don't just throw some colorful analogy out there trying to solicit a response from the crowd. And would you mind going back to the "scum jumping on the fat kid" analogy you used for XReyoX's wagon. I don't kick puppies.

[Akbar]

Wow, first accusing MoS of Defending Raffles. Now, forgetting where your vote is.

[Akbar]

I think Raffles is town. I vote to remove deadline for now. I really like how the vote is fragmented too. It means we've finally woken up. And yes I realize if Raffles comes up scum, it will make me look bad. But, the whole case on Raffles appears to stem from his estimation of scum in game and the unlikelihood of a Cult. Well, I'm town, and I don't think there's a Cult either. So, I'm not convinced.

Erm, how is that an excellent point, PBug? You're making the same mistake that Raffles made. You're assuming that the result of OTU being town justifies the conclusions he made before knowing OTU's real alignment. He did not KNOW OTU was town, and there was no logical reason for a wagon to stall on a protown player without a counterwagon springing up.

In this post, you clearly stated Raffles did not know OTU's alignment. If your believe Raffles to be ignorant of alignments, how can you be so easily convinced he's scum based on his theory of ESE? More importantly, how do YOU know he didn't know what OTU's alignment was?

A deadline lynch featuring a single contender means we'll almost certainly be unable to derive any conclusions from today, if Raffles turns up town.

Why would you say it that way? Why no mention of conclusions we may gather if Raffles is scum? Do you know Raffles is town? Also, why wouldn't we be able to draw any conclusions if he's town? Are we going to ignore the fact that 4 out of the 6 people voting Raffles were on OTU's wagon as well? Of course you could just ignore these questions like the way you ignored xReyox asking you why you voted OTU.

Justified? Maybe. I'm not feeling all too optimistic about the outcome from this, but guess what? It's the closest we've got, and there's a deadline.

Yet, another disclaimer moving towards a possible townie lynch. Which is typically followed up the next day by blaming the accused for not defending himself well enough.

There is no reason to spread votes around unless there is equally good logic for all the candidates being wagoned, and the logic against Raffles is far better than the weak suspicions on the other two. As it is, if I were to be convinced that Raffles was not the play today, I would probably switch my vote to DGB as a competing wagon. The chances that I will find time to go through and look at other players and analyze them by deadline are slim, considering this is finals week for me.

Am I the only 1 here that missed the "logic that is far better than other weak suspicions?" Someone please catch me up. And if Finals is preventing anyone from analyzing players, they probably shouldn't be voting until after finals.

The only connection is that I believe there is a greater chance Raffles may be town, than scum. Incidentally, I think a Raffles lynch would be most informative, especially if he is town, because I am challenging it, and people are reacting differently to the challenge to Raffles' wagon.

To me this looks like scum latching on to a townie. If Raffles gets lynched and comes up town, DGB can use this as a shield later.

It's just that with certain subthreads taking up lots and lots of space, it's hard to get a hard read on anyone aside from raffles (obvious scum), BM (mixed -- but not having played with him, some of this may be playstyle), DGB (seems tres scummy), and a bare few more.

I agree with suspicions of DGB and BM. Could you explain the obvious tells from Raffles that I am missing? Also, in post 954 you remove your vote from Raffles("obvious scum") and place it on DGB(the "tres scummy", which I guess means average scummy). I don't disagree with your vote. But, why did you switch from a "sure thing"? In post 955 you talk about 3 scum groups. If Alex was cult and tried to recruit scum last night, what is your opinion for the lack of nightkills?

I find it more of the case that other scums are over-pushing the option 2.

In post 975, when you say other scums, who is the primary scum? As in, other than whom?
Your post 983 I do agree with. It does seems that way.

the conclusion he came to about us having at least three scum groups is not only a reasonable one, but one that I have also considered to be the most likely scenario, and we're not alone in this.

What do you believe is the cause for the missing nightkills?

[Akbar]

true, but at this point, there would be no reason for ANY player-town or scum, to not want a deadline, considering that there is only 1 real contender for lynch atm. Of course, IF you were scum, those asking for a retraction are likely your scumbuddies.

Why are you trying to convince people Raffles is the only contender but voting PBuG instead? Are you worried your hands will get dirty?

[Akbar]

DGB: You've disclaimed certain knowledge of Raffles' alignment. That's useful info, but begs the question of whether your support of him is based on day results (ie, a hunch or induction) or night results (that decreased the probability for you that he's scum without providing certainty -- I can think of several things that would do this). I don't want details in the latter case, but I'd like to know which is the case.

You don't want details if its the latter? You just asked DGB is she was a power role. WTF difference do the details make if thats the case? Why on earth would you ask someone to expose that knowledge?

[Akbar]

Right now, my favorite scum candidates are

Flay

, MoS, and memne. You guys are making it too easy, like shooting fish in a barrel.

(strikethrough by Akbar)
I would add BM and Shanba to the list though. I guess everyone voting you. Right now the town is clearly not in charge of the voting. But, your doing a great job of shaking things up. Just because MoS and his Shanbaflunky voted for you doesn't mean your getting lynched. No need for the doom speech.
In regards to the ESE "clearly not being Mafia, just because its not spelled that way." This game takes place in a town with horse drawn carriages. The mafia don't have to be pasta-eating, cadillac-driving, guidos with tommy-guns. ESE could just be the flavor.

[Akbar]

Akbar do you have anything to back up your comments, or do you find it satisfactory to defend your scumbuddies in broad daylight?

In regards to you personally or your whole team? Because several people already talked about how your acting different. It just never stuck because Mos was busy leading the charge on Raffles.
Course then MoS changed his position on Raffles and decided to bash PBuG for voting the same person. Now Raffles is "the most informative lynch" which I guess is a quiet way of keeping the vote hop going without appearing too scummy.
DGB is right about Memne's posts. I think there intentionally being written to confuse the readers. I still can't figure out how Memne got the pass on role fishing and then blamed it on the target for "volunteering" information.
Shanba's feigned attack on Memne, followed by the hand shake later, reeks of distancing.
MoS's response to my posts kinda clued me into his partner though. When I mentioned how Shanba was scummy, he jumped down my throat saying he didn't give a f*** what I thought. But, I post suspicions about DGB and it changes to, oh good point, I can see that.
About Flay, I think he's doing it on purpose for Out of Game reasons. He threatened to leave the game if activity didn't pick up. Of course I just gave him an out to use, but if we're hemming up folks lurking, as xReyox pointed out, there's plenty to choose from.

[Akbar]

did they? i dont recall that. please explain how my behaviour here is different, and im sure i can reference you to multiple games in which i have acted exactly the same.

You want me to convince you that your scum? I don't think that will be useful considering you won't be voting yourself.

Interesting. You've got it all worked out, don't you? I look forward to making you eat your words.

Yes, tonight in fact, right? That's what you'd like to say. At least when my corpse is examined tomorrow, it will show how Shanba showed up and went straight after a townie when no suspicion was on me. Flay's support of Shanba's attack was noted, though I'm not convinced he's scum yet.

@SV Hate to see ya leave, your one of the few people I trusted around here.

[Akbar]

I really, really hate the "when I turn up townie, you'll see!" argument...

I really, really hate the "I'm gonna lynch a bunch of townies and claim its for information purposes." argument.....

[Akbar]

No Akbar. I want you to prove to me (and everyone else) that i have been acting different in this game to others.

Theo, at the risk of being call opportunistic, i reccommend u reveal the reason for your votes.

If you were actually reading the thread, you'd already know what I'm talking about. But, you don't have to because your PM gave you all the answers you needed. Hell, at one point in the game, you didn't even know who you were voting for. And, you even gave reasons for switching your vote from the wrong individual. That means that your just throwing your vote out there randomly and fabricating the reasoning as you go.

[Akbar]

I really, really hate the "when I turn up townie, you'll see!" argument...

I really, really hate the "I'm gonna lynch a bunch of townies and claim its for information purposes." argument.....

Rofl, where did I say that?

OverTheUnder (11): Battle Mage, DrippingGoofball, Fuldu,

Mastermind of Sin

, Mr Flay, remussaidow, PBuG, Scarecrow, al4x, theopor_COD, IH

He did remind me of the fact that a Raffles lynch gives us more information than anything else, and I agreed with that.

[Akbar]

To those of you supporting Shanba's questioning: PBuG, XreyoX, Kison, The Greg. Are you even aware of what was asked or more specifically

wasn't

asked? I'll post the "question" just incase your not.

OK. Something very strange is going on. It looks like mneme was town, which is nice to know, as it allows me o see things with somewhat greater clarity.

However, something happened to me last night which makes me Vote: Akbar. I want to see if he can explain it first, so I'm not giving away what it is yet.

@The townie(s) that is/are curious, I have no action, day, night or otherwise, to interact with Shanba in any way, with exception to my vote, which will continue tomorrow on Shanba, MoS, BM, and Fuldu, roughly in that order.

I'm going to claim. I'm a cop, and IH is scum. Vote IH

4 games with IH, all 4 scum, when randomizing for roles, is IH hacking the program?

@BM: Were you trying to defend for IH when n9v first claimed, went silent to see how the wagon is heading, then now decide to bus him? The change of view from the last one to this one and the time gap between the two looks suspicious.

Sure looks like it.

BM: However, i think his claim can be verified, as there is one person in this game who should know almost certainly that it is true: The Cop who can detect Wolves.

I keep hearing an old Primus Song in my head. Fish On!

Vote IH

There is also a bit of other information I would like to share incase the scums take me out tonight. There is an individual among us that is delivering the Hefty Rune of Hardiness to other players in the night. I know this individual's identity, but am not sure if that should be revealed at this time.

I received the item Night 1 and activated it Night 2. It had no description, only instructions on its use and that it can be saved for later. At this time, I am not convinced of its nature. Originally, I suspected it to be some form of Bodyguard/Doctor power which is why I haven't released the source. However, after using the item there was a blue flash of light and I heard a cackling laughter outside. When I looked out the window, there was a witch flying by on a broom.(No I'm not kidding)

I was then attacked by someone the same way Alexz was attacked. They tried to stangle me from behind, but I fought them off. I can only assume the Rune protected me. After that, I was attacked again and injured but was given no description of the attack. I'm assuming this is a bad thing. Perhaps the Rune only protects against 1 kind of attack.

Since Mneme was NKed, I couldn't have been attacked by both scum groups unless there really are 3 of them, or 2 + SK/cult. If I was attacked by more than 1 scum group, that's a great compliment. The fact that Shanba knows anything about it, leads me to believe he was either the attacker or one of two groups.

[Akbar]

If IH was a Miller role, wouldn't that show up on his role tag? I think N9V is lying. As much as I don't trust BM & Fuldu, I think their appraisal of the situation is accurate.

Yesterday we trusted his claim, and were punished for it. Half a dozen of us are already dead. We don't have the numbers to be throwing away making 100% sure that N9V is scum. If we demand that the real cop claims before lynching scum, then we've allowed him to not only kill once but twice.

The only chance that N9V is innocent is if he's an insane cop. I think it's unlikely the Mod would not only give us an Insane Cop, but also only allow him to identify 1 scum group. Everyone he investigated would come up guilty except that one scum group. That wouldn't be a benefit, it'd be a curse. Couple that with the "Strange Occurrence" that kept N9V from investigating would mean the scum have a Role Blocker as well! The probability of options weighs heavily on N9V being scum.

Also of note, neither scum group tried to kill N9V. The fact that N9V is not voting Raffles instead of BM is suspect as well, considering the only chance N9V's innocent is being Insane Cop. This of course would mean Raffles is scum.

Vote N9V

[Akbar]

We know that MoS, a werewolf, did kill last night. We

don't

know who killed MoS. That means that the Mafia(the ONLY group who would want to eliminate a legit cop VS Mafia), could have attempted to kill ~N9V~ last night and been blocked by a doctor.

If mafia didn't kill MoS last night, who could have? Our Vig killed DGB. If there is a cult, then they would have failed against MoS and been killed themselves. The only thing left would be a 2nd Vig, who happened to go for MoS. Leaving mafia to go for N9V AND happened to get doc protected even though IH came up town. That's pretty thin don't ya think?

[Akbar]

I want to know why kison thinks that n9v is not scum because he investigated him because I've got a "stange occurence" yesterday and kison was in it.

Well thats definitely worth listening to. How bout it Kison. What sort of drama do you and XReyoX share?

Unvote

[Akbar]

@XReyoX
No, I still think N9V is scum. I just wanted to hear the details of your encounter with Kison.
I also agree that Bird should be forced to contribute or replaced. The Mod already said he answered his prod. He's deliberately not posting.

N9V claims cop, tells us IH is scum, we trust him and wind up with a dead Mayor. Now, rather than look at the basic evidence of the situation, we're trying to add "what ifs" to explain what happened like:

-IH is a Godfather. No, because he wouldn't come up scum.

-IH is a reverse Godfather, otherwise known as Miller. Not likely, his death certificate made no mention of it. Unlike Alex and MoS that plainly identified their faction.

-N9V is insane, it wasn't his fault. If that's true, then why aren't we lynching Raffles, the individual that received an innocent investigation?

-Now we're going off the premise he was Roleblocked. To explain lack of another investigation that could prove/disprove N9V's claim.

You put it all together and it looks like a bunch of thrown together excuses to see which one will be most believable. I think if N9V is a cop, he's a Mafia Cop. I don't think we have a real cop. The Fonz playing bully for him doesn't make much sense either considering he just showed up 5 minutes ago. The thing that has me unsure is BM wanting him lynched.

Vote bird1111

[Akbar]

I am surprised several of you are willing to give Bird1111 another day pass on this game. He doesn't need any prodding from the Mod. The Mod already prodded him in the past and told us he didn't need any more. (Post 1103 for those skimming.) Basically he spent 3 days hiding and no one blinked an eye, except Flay and XReyoX, 1 of which wound up dead.

I really don't trust The Fonz either. The way his posts attempt to move the crowd 1 step at a time seems manipulative.

Pah, he's got a guilty. Whether you feel like accepting it at face value or not, it's testable.

After no disapproval from the crowd...

He'd have to be really stupid scum to claim right now. If scum are really stupid, they tend to give themselves away sooner or later anyway. Hence, I see no reason not to test his result.

Vote: IH

After IH's lynch and some accusations get directed at N9V...

The important thing you're forgetting is, if he's not the real mafia-finding cop, THERE'S ALMOST CERTAINLY ANOTHER ONE OUT THERE. So unless and until he gets counterclaimed, we shouldn't lynch him.

Here, he's offered a trade to a real cop abandoning his cover to confirm or deny what N9V has done.

If there's someone capable of counterclaiming, they'll come out eventually or be NKed, and there's no harm in leaving N9V alive until that point.

Again, reiterating N9V should receive lynch immunity until a real cop exposes himself.

I'd suggest leaving N9V alive, but not lynching solely on the basis of his results, for a few days yet.

Here he suggests we wait a few days before deciding on N9V. Well let's see. In 3 days we've lost 8 people. We're averaging over 2 fatalities a day. In a few days, assuming "few" means 3 we will average another 7 deaths, leaving 6 alive to come to a decision.

If IH was a Miller role, wouldn't that show up on his role tag? I think N9V is lying. As much as I don't trust BM & Fuldu, I think their appraisal of the situation is accurate.

It didn't show up on Al's tag whether he was cult, mafia or mason. Why would it come up on IH's? We seem to have a limited-reveal game. Deal with it.

Massive FOS: anyone pushing an N9V lynch today

Here, The Fonz attempts to assert himself as an authority on this game's theme, ironically being a day 3 replacement. Sorry, if I don't just "deal with it" and place my vote where I'm told based on your coaxing.

Raffles may have been a 'prime suspect' but I actually think that wagon was poorly-reasoned and full of scum. By saying 'the only way he's innocent is if he's insane cop' is such a clearly beneficial strat if you're scum. You get to lynch one person not part of your scum group as a 'test', and if he comes up innocent, then you get to lynch the cop. Not buying it.

This is the 1st sound logic I've seen from The Fonz. If we're going to lynch test N9V's claim, lynching his "innocent" won't help much. Raffles being scum or town still won't confirm N9V.
If Raffles is town, N9V could be scum betting on the odds because Raffles isn't in his scumgroup or just legitimate cop that investigated correctly.
If Raffles is scum, Raffles could be the "wrong" scum group type for N9V to identify, N9V could be town and just insane, or could be Raffles scumbuddy trying to keep heat off him.

@Kison: How does n9v trying to investigate you make him not a scum?

What is it with you and the rampant rolefishing?

This is not exactly what I'd call an offhand comment. Either The Fonz believes XReyoX is deliberately fishing or not. It looks to be just thrown out there to see if anyone would run with it.

The circumstances are a million miles from 'infinitely unlikely.' IH's death scene was kinda mysterious on the subject of his alignment- good reason to suspect, etc, but no firm proof- it didn't say out-and-out that IH was town.

I find this comment to be ridiculous. IH came up with the same coloring as a Retired Cop and a Gardener. I don't know if the Mod got lazy on the other coloring or some event is preventing it, but if we're going to ignore the information from death scenes, we might as well be using random.org to finish out the game.
OTU was BLUE Retired Cop
Alex was RED ESE
Mr. Flay was BLUE Gardener
Mneme was uncolored Baker
IH was BLUE Mayor
DGB was uncolored Silversmith
Shanba was uncolored Strongman
MoS was uncolored Lycanthrope

Hence, we leave N9V alive for a few more days, but don't necessarily lynch on his recommendation. We basically ignore him for a while. We don't have to commit to leaving him alive to anywhere near endgame.

This comment implying that we won't be at endgame in a few days, which is likely false.

No! It's not! It would be lying if we could prove that IH appeared innocent to investigations, AND N9V is definitely not insane. As we cannot prove either of those things, we cannot say for sure that N9V is lying.

Only N9V and possible scumbuddies can be sure. But, I believe the Mod's coloring of IH is more credible than The Fonz's speculation.

No, I didn't. I never said N9V is definitely town. This is an obvious and blatant misrepresentation. I said, we have enough reason to think N9V might still be town that it would clearly be a mistake to lynch him today. There are positions which fall between 'lynch him now' and 'never lynch him.' Namely,

keep him alive for another four or so days, collecting investigations, then if he hasn't been nightkilled by then, we think about lynching him.

Now that the 3 day immunity has gathered little resistance, we should increase it to "four days or so." Well, we have 13 players, losing 2 or 3 a day. After 4 days of waiting, at our current rate will garner 8 to 12 casualties. Keep in mind The Fonz said "4 days or so," implying it would be just as safe to wait 5 days, yielding 10 to 15 casualties(assuming that was possible), then we can THINK about N9V lying.

Am I the only one who sees the flaw here? I'm still unsure about N9V's alignment. I can't tell whether The Fonz is protecting a scumbuddy or trying to latch to a townie and ride out the storm for his efforts. I also don't like The Fonz playing stupid about Alex being scum. His name is in Red. He had an S&M torture room in his house! What else would he be?

I did like the way Fuldu seems to be walking on eggshells on page 58. I think The Fonz's speculation has him worried. My guess is BM & Fuldu are buddies and Fuldu want's to help BM while staying out of harms way. At this point, I'd be willing to vote BM, Fuldu or The Fonz. However, I think Bird should be forced to speak.

[Akbar]

Wrong. We are not averaging over two a day.

We have had one twice, and three once. That averages to two precisely,

and one of the killing groups is dead. Assuming that there is not a fourth killing group (unlikely, given two nights of only one kill) there ought to be a maximum of six dead, with the possibility of fewer.

Let me slow this down a bit. We started with 21 players. 3 Days have passed. We are missing 8 of them. 3 times 2 is NOT 8.

OverTheUnder - Retired Cop - Banished - Day 1
al4xz - ESE Member - Strangled - Night 1

Mr. Flay - Gardener at the Estate - Dropped dead - Day 2
mneme replaces Scarecrow - Baker - Baked to a crisp - Night 2

IH - Mayor of Lupieri - Voted out of office - Day 3
DrippingGoofball - Silversmith - Bludgeoned - Night 3
Shanba - Strongman - Eaten - Night 3
Mastermind of Sin - Lycanthrope - Shot - Night 3

Please explain to mean how 2 deaths, 2 deaths and 4 deaths became "one twice and three once".

I've already explained why 'two or three a day' is false.

And 'four or so' could equally imply three as five

, yet of course you assume five.

Is English your native language? Does anyone else here think "4 or so" could mean 3?
If you don't want your statement to imply the possibility of 5, don't say "or so", just say 4. Here's a better idea. How about checking on how many people we have remaining before suggesting bogus strategy.

Alex was NOT red. In the flavour text of the death scene, the words ESE Member was coloured red, because the flavour had those words written in blood upon his membership card.

Let me see if I got this straight. Your saying that an organization that writes their names in blood on memberships cards is Town-Based? Sure.

Again, this is not true. His name was uncoloured, and he's into S&M and a member of a secret organisation.

There are non-scum explanation for this.

(

Possible admission of affiliation

) It's not like anyone's been killed in an S&M type way.

So by that logic, we can't even be sure MoS was one of the wolves. His death says Lycanthrope. Lycanthrope could be any "wear" creature. Maybe he was a Wear-Badger http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/badgers2/ and the wolves in the title are actually just Timber Wolves from Oregon.

[Akbar]

If anyone would like to see the original Mod-written Color code, they can be found at posts:
530, 532, 1212, 1320

[Akbar]

Heated argument to totally lost in 1 page? Hehe.
Actually Kison, he probably thinks his safest play is to clam up right now. Maybe, me and The Fonz arguing about IH and OTU being alive or dead will be a sufficient distraction.

I can't believe Bird is getting another pass. Flay was right. What's the point of playing if we're going to let players permanently lurk the whole game. Guess he's got friends looking out for him.

Unvote, Vote BattleMage

[Akbar]

Hmmm, I put BM in the lead with 4 votes and Fuldu switches to Bird to make it a tie. Wonder if that's just coincidence.

[Akbar]

That may be the case. But, I was right about MoS. At the moment, you and Fuldu are the best lead I have.

[Akbar]

oh and dont think i havent noticed your attempts to tie me to Fuldu. Common scumtell.

BM

Really? Hard to believe you noticed something I blatantly stated at least 3 times already.

Btw, did you just try to say it's a common scumtell to find you and Fuldu suspicious? Do the Mods on this site give you and Fuldu town roles more than other people?

[Akbar]

unvote, vote XreyoX

Yes, I know it's a bit of a dick move to vote someone who's just requested replacement. But a re-read of MoS reveals a lot of posts which could be seen as coaching, and I want the replacement to arrive under a little pressure.

So to place "a little pressure"(with a lone vote) on an unknown replacement, your removing your vote off your perceived scum? That makes sense.

[Akbar]

Who says I find Battle Mage basically being Battle Mage scummier than having a potential tie to the one confirmed scum?

Ummm, you did. Ya know, that part where you voted him? Or was that just for show with no meaning behind it?

[Akbar]

Not sure what the sarcasm is for. I'm just trying to find out your motivation. Because, it looks like you voted BM as retaliation for him going after N9V.

THat's it.

Unvote, vote Battle Mage

He has not been confirmed a liar. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

[Akbar]

I'm all for exploring new angles. That's why I voted Bird in the 1st place and look what happened. It took 4 votes just to get him to claim a reread was necessary before saying anything. So when you say your going to "pressure" XreyoX with 1 vote, I have to doubt it's effectiveness.

The fact that BM just reached lynch-2 when you switched votes could be of note as well. This brief conflict with you 2 could be distancing or you could be starting momentum on a townie wagon and jumping off as it crests the hill.

[Akbar]

@Fonz
Would you prefer I stuck to one particular subject then? You just got finished saying you liked to explore more than 1 angle. Should that not apply to yourself?

As far as Alex red colored tag, I still say your wrong. But, I'm not going to continually post that trying to change your mind. Assuming that's your real position on the subject.

[Akbar]

Applying that to myself is fine, I'm happy to answer questions about any aspect of my behaviour you like. The point, though, was that I find it suspect that you continually seek to change the subject from anything that might make you look scummy.

Talk about changing the subject. That's what you just did. Claiming that I look scummy because I'm suspicious of you is no better than OMGUS voting.

However, I still feel that there was an obvious misrepresentation, and there's a decent chance it was deliberate:

Ok, so now accusing me of misrepresenting a dead guy. I hope we don't accidentally lynch him incorrectly.

In regards to the death scenes

Again, this is pretty close to being a flat-out lie. We get role names, not alignments, and there is no reason to think a politician is particularly unlikely to be miller or traitor. Alex's deathscene did not reveal his alignment, it's as plain as day.

Your version of a lie must be any opinion that doesn't agree with yours.
Fact: Alex came up ESE Member, Mos came up Wolf, and IH came up Mayor.
What's plain as day is you trying to act like your being productive but shooting down every lead we have by chanting your mantra of "we can't be sure."

Why would IH's death be any different to everyone else's in the game thus far?

That's the point. Miller is a ROLE not an alignment. What did we get from everyone's death scenes? Their ROLES.

Again, using a non-sequitur (and arguing by repetition) to label someone else as scum.

In fact, this, combined with the attempt to strawman me with craplogic, makes me think you're a pretty good bet for scum.

Again, no different than an OMGUS vote.

Btw, you just claimed I was changing the subject frequently. Now your saying I'm using repetition to label. If your going to fabricate suspicion, you should keep track of your contradictions.

Fos me all ya want. I'm still suspicious of You, BM and Fuldu.

[Akbar]

You seem to be acting as if you have some divine right to always be on the offensive in this argument, however scummy you act during it, and then dismiss any mention of your very scummy behaviour by declaring it OMGUS.

Divine right!? Look who the f*** is talking. Telling people your speculation of the death scene is more accurate than anyone else. And you keep bringing up N9V repeatedly, (oh what was that you said about arguing through repetition to make a lie truth?), my god what a hypocrite.

Let's see, last time I was talking about N9V's cop claim is post 1481. So over 65 posts ago is your version of the "

HEADLONG CHARGE

", didn't want to miss the sensationalism you added, meanwhile my vote sits on Battle Mage.

You want to be offensive, go for it. Since apparently that's more important to you than the content of what's being argued.

[Akbar]

PBuG, your the absolute last person I would expect to make that statement. Did you forget about Night 2/Day 3?

[Akbar]

@Any town we have left still interested in playing this game.

PBuG is currently the only individual that I trust. He's the reason I'm still alive.

On day 1 I voiced suspicions of voting patterns between Kison and PBuG. I even voted PBuG. Later that night I received a delivery. It was the Hefty Rune of Hardiness. I never experienced items before, so I didn't use it.

The next day, PBuG signaled me about the delivery. He started saying something like everyone should be Hardy, and use our Hefty Swords of Justice to fight evil, or something to that effect. Anyone of our original players could have caught this if they were paying attention. The replacements won't find this because shortly after he posted it, the server outage hit. The outage washed away several posts, including PBuG's song.

After the signal, I dropped my suspicion of PBuG and didn't speak of it again. Since half of my suspicion of Kison was the possible connection, I figured I didn't have much on him either. At the time, the outage seemed like a good way to hide a power role. But, in retrospect with all the replacements, it seems a bit unfair that they can't access that info.

On Day 2 I voiced suspicions of several players. Among those, a heated argument against BM and MoS. I figured I pissed off enough people that I could be whacked by one of the scum. So I used the Rune in hopes it would protect me.

Sure enough, I got attacked. Unfortunately it was by our Vigilante. I illustrated the details of the attack for anyone to reference. The key point being attacked at home. I have no night action.

Not only did N9V verify the witch flying by, or at least something flying by. Shanba also verified the attack.

So The Fonz can try to twist our argument around all he wants. But, he can't twist the testimonies of a Vigilante, A Claimed Cop, and a Runesmith or whatever the role is.

[Akbar]

That makes me like you more, Akbar, but I think that your explaining that wasn't a very wise move. If what you're saying is true, then you put PBuG at risk.

Your probably right and it wasn't my first choice. I even withheld his identity on day 3. But, it seemed like several players aren't even here. Maybe with the release of new info it will get more people involved.

Your whole argument boils down to "A pro-town player sent me something useful, so I must be pro-town" which doesn't logically follow at all.

No, that's what you decided make it into. One of my points was being attacked at home showed I didn't have a night action. Another was attacking MoS, a proven Wolf. Another was the witnesses that attested to the circumstance. And now I have a new one. The people suspect of me are....oh look, The Fonz, BM and Fuldu. What a coincidence.

Now, if you want to make a rational, grown-up argument in response to these points, be my guest.

Rehashing the same debate and being condescending about it doesn't change anything. Isn't that what you said to BM? Repeating it doesn't make it true. The fact is, you suggested a faulty strategy, which was even self-admitted:

Perhaps four was a little strong, i thought there were a couple more alive than there are.

I pointed out flaws in it. Now your afraid how it made you look so your attacking me.
Here's another one:

Al was killed at home, and you seem to believe that he's confirmed scum. Can't have it both ways.

Anyone here see this statement contrasting with the Mod's version of the death scene?

al4xz was one of those people and he was out and about in the evening. He knew the risks of what he was doing and the risk was what made him do it. A shiver of excitement ran along his spine as he crossed the village green, on his way to the river. He hoped for a rendezvous there, and if that didn't happen, he could always help himself.

[Akbar]

@Kison
Your asking me to debate your opinion of probability. I think me being home at night, among other things is an indication of my town affiliation. If you don't think that's the case, that's on you.

[Akbar]

I can't believe you would lash out at me, PBuG. I had you covered. Wasn't it obvious I didn't mean you any harm? I found out about your role on Day 2. I stopped all suspicion and pressuring right after that. I even kept your identity secret for 2 days. And above all, your still alive, 2 days later! If I was scum, don't you think I would have taken you out by now? All you had to do was go along with it. I would have remained hidden as Vanilla Town, and you would have stayed protected.

Since tonight is likely my last night, for what its worth, I was right about MoS, and I still think BM, Fuldu, and possibly The Fonz are scums.

For the rest of the town asleep at the wheel, I'm Guillermo, the Village Healer.

@Thok
He's right, I was out of my house that night. I was protecting PBuG. His Rune did in fact protect me from Shanba's attack.

[Akbar]

At home. The first night I protected SV(now The Fonz). The 2nd night was PBuG. Tonight will be PBuG again.

Last night is the only night I was unable to protect. The Moderator has forbid me to tell you why or even hint at it.

[Akbar]

I was already defending Akbar because of the tone I got from his posts (and because of the tone I saw from his attackers)

Glad somebody noticed.

@The Fonz
Earlier you tried to say Alex was killed at home and The Mod said he crossed the Village Green headed to the river to have a rendezvous. That wasn't a lie or you misrepresenting the past right?

[Akbar]

@Kison
Good to know I was right on day 1 about you and Pbug being connected, even if it wasn't a scummy connection.

After seeing bird's name come up blue, I no longer believe the color codes have any bearing on roles. It seems like the colors are only relevant to the time of death. If you die during the day, you come up blue. If you die at night, you come up black.

[Akbar]

Vote Battle Mage

[Akbar]

@Lowell
Did your suspicion of The Fonz come from the lengthy exchange between us, or was it something else?

[Akbar]

Maybe Fonz needs more time to think of one. This won't be the first time he's ignored an "inconvenient" question.

I'm still curious to what Lowell's suspicious hunch of The Fonz is based on.

[Akbar]

Now that's the old BM. If you had been playing that way from the beginning, I probably never would have thought anything of it. But, for the beginning few days, you were quiet, courteous, very methodical.

This is my 3rd game with you. I've never seen you act like that before and it seems out of place.

I'm not the only one who mentioned it either. You just keep using the saying "prove it" over and over until folks get tired of repeating themselves and then claim the suspicion is totally unfounded.

[Akbar]

I didn't say 'bypass his turn' I just wanted Fuldu before Lowell. What possible reason can there be to want X to go before Y other than you believe X is more likely to be scum? It's a mass claim, it's not like if Lowell had anything on me (he doesn't) I'd get out of it being revealed by Fuldu claiming first.

Anyone else catch this? The implication is that Fonz is covering for Lowell asking for the skip. Instead of addressing the point, he acts confused by the question and changes it to Lowell having evidence on himself.

[Akbar]

Akbar, no offence, but your continued bullshit insinuations are REALLY pissing me off.

Well that's the difference between you and I. I'm treating the game for what it is. You on the other hand are taking it to a personal level. You even speculated we were flaming each other earlier. That means you admit to taking this personally. Until you can detach yourself from the game, your always going to feel that way.

[Akbar]

Oddly enough, i dont recall playing a game with you in quite a long time. Do you maintain the belief that over long periods of time, newbs dont improve atall?

It has been a bit and I could be wrong about you. But, right now I only trust 2 people. I'm suspicious of you, Fuldu and Fonz. Other people suspicious of you are confirmed town. When N9V went after you, it looked like Fuldu tried to save you. If you come up scum, I think Fuldu should be lynched. Unfortunately, I won't have a vote by then.

[Akbar]

I know it's a game. But that's no reason not to act with the slightest modicum of decency, respect, or indeed logic.

When you say lacking logic, if your referring to your logic your correct. I definitely don't agree with your logic.
I not sure where the disrespectful or indecent part came from. But, like I said, our logic is not the same.

[Akbar]

I think Thok is town as well now. He replaced XreyoX. In the beginning of the game XreyoX joked about being drunk. Apparently he wasn't just being obstructive. He was actually hinting his role. I don't think he would do that if he was a scum-aligned blocker.

[Akbar]

hmm, interesting info. I dont think Theo is a good lynch for today.

What's interesting is you going from asking for a replacement because you couldn't continue, to doubling your activity when Theo gets mentioned as the strategic lynch.

[Akbar]

Don't worry about BM. With N9V gone, there's no way I'm making it through the night anyways. He'll have to come up with a new excuse to lynch townies.

[Akbar]

Not sure about the lurkers. I was waiting to see what became of Raffles.

Unvote, Vote Theopor_Cod

[Akbar]

Probably because his team doesn't want to bus him and our few remaining townies are not interested enough in playing.

[Akbar]

Thanks for the help Flay.

@BM
Apparently you missed Greg's illustration of the truth in post 1819. But that's ok. It'll be funny tomorrow, watching you explain trying to get me lynched.

I don't even think Theopor is town. I think he just said that in hopes we have a lynch blocker, or the vote count is wrong. Thok's roleclaim matches XreyoX's roleplay early in the game and N9V's testimony of the roleblock. It's likely XreyoX wouldn't joke about being drunk, hinting at his role if was a scummy role.

[Akbar]

Nice work Thok. I was suspicious of Fuldu(Celtic18) & BM to begin with. Especially after BM tried to save Theopor. But, the roleblock is pretty convincing. Without Kison, they knew I'd be covering Pbug(ThAdmiral). So they had to come after me. I'd be willing to vote either one of them. What makes you think Fuldu is the last mafia?

[Akbar]

Thok's comments don't make a whole lot of sense to me. I mean, Theo came up town. So from that alone you can ascertain that we are not scumbuddies.

(Bolding for anyone interested in changing Theopor's lynch results.)

theopor_COD was lynched by the group, including Battle Mage coming back from his sabbatical to jump up and down on the lever of the gallows until it finally gave way.

Good thing

, too, since theo's hands were

dirty as sin

.

[Akbar]

BM attacking in all directions including the Masons looks desperate. As long as Fuldu is pinned down, I agree BM being today's play. The broom sounds like a defensive item, like hiding/flying, but why chance it.

Vote Battle Mage

[Akbar]

The witches have been true to us up to this point. If they were scummers, why would they give us the magic items, instead of handing them off to each other?

Vote Setael

[Akbar]

@Tarhalindur
Is scumdoc even a real role? What would they protect against besides Vigilantes?

Anyhow, these are the people the witches said were out on night 2:
Night Two : ~N9V~, Akbar, bird1111, Mastermind of Sin, Shanba, Thok

Both scum groups had a person out: bird1111(Mafia) & Mastermind of Sin(Wolf)

[Akbar]

So your suggesting the scum groups were given multiple actions per night? That'd be a pretty unfair set up.

[Akbar]

You can block me if you want. I kept the power role I identified alive up to this point. So I'm not really that important any more. I believe Tarhalindur to be the only remaining scum as well. Everyone else has a somewhat supported claim at this point. We are likely so far ahead that we can't lose unless there is 2 scum left. Tarhalindur, Thok and TheAdmiral don't really seem connected. So that leaves ESE. If they turn out to be scummers, then we're at Lylo. If we mislynch, and get nightkilled, the morning would leave us 2 on 2. Game over.

[Akbar]

The ESE can't be scum unless only 1 of them is. They could have killed one of us last night and won the game.

[Akbar]

Flay told me aside from Thok's block, I saw a witch fly overhead and land near the houses of ThAdmiral, Fritzler & Fonz.

[Akbar]

Maybe they're not a pair at all. Kison said it himself that Pbug's alignment was unconfirmed.

We are witch sisters. Nothing indicates there's a possibility that either of us are scum. On the other hand, nothing guarantees that one of us isn't.

ESE is only confirmed by each other. But, I can only think of 1 way that ESE is scum and that's if they are a cult playing it safe, afraid to be seen out and/or recruit the wrong person. Because if they recruited the wrong person, 1 would be dead and we'd lynch the other the next morning.

[Akbar]

The only thing I've lied about involved hiding my Doc role until Pbug panicked and thought I was trying to hurt him. But, someone who can twist the phrase “4 or so” to mean 3 or less can pretty much label anything a lie.

Claiming that few others had the same suspicions of you just because they didn't join the argument doesn't account for much considering the majority of our players were either inactive town or lurking scum.

[Akbar]

Sure enough, I got attacked. Unfortunately it was by our Vigilante. I illustrated the details of the attack for anyone to reference. The key point being attacked at home.

I have no night action.

Thank you for

again

illustrating my point. Lying only to hide my Doc role.

I guess anyone who can see 'ESE member' as 'confirmed scum' and 'Gardener at the Estate' as 'confirmed town' can twist pretty much anything, though.

Oh, what's this here?

2. We have a limited-reveal game, as shown by the fact that the vig came up 'strongman' and a (likely) townsperson came up 'gardener.'

Oh, it's the Fonz stating the Gardener is likely Town...

That they didn't suspect me isn't the point. That they didn't make scummy arguments and blatant misrepresentations is.

They didn't make any arguments period is the point.

Al was killed at home, and you seem to believe that he's confirmed scum. Can't have it both ways.

What was that you were saying about blatant misrepresentations?

al4xz was one of those people and he was out and about in the evening. He knew the risks of what he was doing and the risk was what made him do it. A shiver of excitement ran along his spine as

he crossed the village green, on his way to the river.

He hoped for a rendezvous there, and if that didn't happen, he could always help himself.