Touhou: MitLoF ~ Makai Mix (Game Over)

[pieguyn]

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[pieguyn]

now with that out of the way

1. I have town on notsci, Om, and purple

2. @Ankamius: why is beeboy scum?

[pieguyn]

I'm not even townreading me

I can point out why I think you're town if you want

[pieguyn]

Also, how am I not town?

if you want my read on you, your posts look town on a gut level, but there's really nothing specific I have that points to you being town

Then please do so.

scum wouldn't make an attention-whoring entrance that's designed to draw a shitton of votes onto themselves, especially when they're aware they'd probably get at least 2 people who they are familiar with to death tunnel the shit out of them as a result

nothing he posted gives me any reason to second guess the read, and if he's town, I know he'll keep up the trend really well, so I feel fine putting up an early townread here

[pieguyn]

if i had a million day vig shots

i would use all of them

on caledhydra

why?

So, you're saying the guy with townish posts isn't town based on some guilty-until-innocent logic, and the other you're saying is too scummy to be scum?

hint: I don't think NS's entrance is scummy. I buy that he thinks he'd get voted for it - this is unrelated to whether I personally think it's scummy. does that answer your question?

[pieguyn]

It somewhat answers the second half. You failed to justify your non-town read on beastcharizard.

the beast read is entirely gut at this point so I don't feel good about it. I don't like putting anyone as town just based on "gut", just via policy.

[pieguyn]

wait, he did?

fucking hell

I don't know if this changes anything

[pieguyn]

so @notsci: you're saying this was a reaction test?

also what did you like about her early stuff? I don't remember thinking any of it was town, but I didn't particularly dislike any of it either.

[pieguyn]

That she's actually here and not lurking

I'm not going too heavy on a mollie read D1

I'd rather work with her and reassess later

I need to go back and take a look at xenosaga, but I remember her play in that game consisting mostly of deathtunneling zmuffin and trying to act as confident as possible about it. her most recent post gave me similar vibes.

And no, this is me excited for a game

bingo. hence why I town read you based off it :/

at least this response makes me feel a bit better, since I doubt you'd be excited for another scum game after that

[pieguyn]

^it took me at least 7 or 8 tries to post that

[pieguyn]

wait, he did?

fucking hell

I don't know if this changes anything

I don't understand the context behind this post.

that was in response to notsci using this same entrance in a scum game of his, when I thought he was town based off it

I still have him as town, but for slightly different reasons

[pieguyn]

fwiw pieguy in said RVS I told everyone that GIF accidentally put the scum in my role pm and selfvoted

then when someone told my buddy to bus I said "Can I bus instead" and voted said buddy

I did see that part

best bus I've ever seen \o/

[pieguyn]

No seriously the angle that beast is going at about the vote on alch is ridiculous. Like ridiculous and makes no sense for him to go about it as town.

~M

Do not use the black spoiler

IT looks like he's still in RVS

^fwiw, I agree with both of these posts. if I scumread beast, it would be for other reasons

[pieguyn]

completely unrelated: part of me thinks I should just turn p-edit off for this game, bc jesus fucking christ

I have to leave for a bit. I hope there's not 10 more pages by the time I get back

[pieguyn]

Also, five bucks on Sakura

do you mean to say Sakura is scum?

bc if so, I know what your reason is and I believe she's been busy all of today. if I scumread her, it will be after she actually starts posting

btw, why do you have beast as strong town?

[pieguyn]

also I didn't like Feirei's entrance. too many safe stances and absolutely nothing that could be seen as controversial - I get the feeling they're actively trying to not make any waves in the game

@Feirei, why is notsci "bet-the-game" town at this point?

[pieguyn]

Also its how laid back he is rn

agree with this. you are saying this is a town trait for him?

[pieguyn]

townhunting ns = town

my entrance in games is always shit.

p-edit: keep hands, feet, and all other objects inside the hydra at all times, sonic.

-F

that really doesn't have anything to do with what I said

your entrance consisted of calling a shitton of ppl town and claiming you "hope x and y are town", followed by calling one person scum (who you had been pushing as scum previously). the rest of your posts have been more of the same - reads very heavily as scum attempting to buddy everyone and not make any waves in the game

the fact you haven't scum hunted at all since then supports it. why haven't you done anything to pressure Dreams, or push him for more info, who is supposedly your only scum read?

[pieguyn]

VOTE: Dreams

because your name is too long.

-F

It's gonna be one of those games...

purple, is there a reason you hate our guts right now?

ns is town again? Good to know!

mollie I hope you're town this game

beast is town

dreams is still scum

purple is meh

so is everyone else.

p-edit: hi mala!

-F

there's something quite obviously missing here. why did you develop your scumread on dreams, and when did it transition from RVS into legit scumread?

[pieguyn]

@Alchemist: I'm not sure from a meta standpoint. this is a motivation based read

@notsci: are you serious, or are you trolling? if srs, why?

[pieguyn]

pieguyn you've spoken with alchemist earlier in the game but i dont recall you giving a read on him? whats your opinion?

gut-town, don't have a formal read yet

what's your opinion?

[pieguyn]

I feel like this is is similar to touhou fei

disagree. from what I remember, Feirei's posts from that game came across as tonally strong, and you can tell he was scumhunting

I don't get that feeling in this game - moreover, I really don't want to factor meta into this. in my experience this kind of meta is so weak that it could fail either way (see: what happened with tn in o569)

p-edit:

caled and i haven't conversed at all. perhaps you forgot the number one rule of hydras: WORK TOGETHER. wait until her and i had a chance to talk about it.

this does explain the lack of scumhunting so far. we can proceed for now

[pieguyn]

I think town too.

why?

btw, do you still think beast is scum?

[pieguyn]

I could see mollie scum here. I feel like that one post where she posted "bullshit" in big text and voted me, despite the fact I wasn't there to witness notsci's play in PVZ, was her overreacting on purpose.

that said

@mollie:

why did you vote me earlier, when I wasn't even in PVZ?

[pieguyn]

it sounded more like an excuse to me.

~Wis

the first time GIF and I hydra'd after my semi-break, we mostly did townhunting and had fun in the early game and didn't start scumhunting until a few RL days into the game. I could potentially see a similar approach from Fei/caled and, speaking of tonally strong posts, Fei's one post to me counted as one.

I don't think they're town, but if I scum read them, it prob won't come until a bit later once they start doing shit

[pieguyn]

I asked first.

You voted first.

~Wis

^this

[pieguyn]

no, that's not how it works

if you think someone is scum, you should explain why

p-edit: @haj

[pieguyn]

facepalm

[pieguyn]

So this is another one of

those

games. :sigh:

do you really not have anything else to say

[pieguyn]

haj, if you're town, you need to be more cooperative

this is a team game; you can't just order people around to do things. if you think someone is scum, the burden of proof is on YOU to explain why, not everyone else for disagreeing with you

this is why Wisdom is asking you to explain your vote

it is also anti-town to refuse to cooperate, which you are doing by actively refusing to provide content

so, wanna try again?

[pieguyn]

pie, I get that you're super towny and all but you don't have to spout this baby talk to try and coerce me into playing how you want to. As soon as he talks, I talk. You can wagon me because of Curiosity's refusal to eat his ego and answer a simple question, but that'd be REALLY stupid of you! In my opinion, at least. There are better things to do.

OK, here's a hint

is it really just me who's trying to "coerce" you into playing how I want you to?

it's pretty obvious that I'm not the only person in this game who is not satisfied with your play, as indicated by Wis and Fei both being visibly pissed off at you. this is because *gasp* the way you're playing is extremely anti-town, and all three of us know that and agree about it. so, wanna try again?

[pieguyn]

I don't particularly think the way haj is playing is particularly scum at the moment, just dumbfuck

I'd be willing to vote him to make it stop, but at the moment that's it

[pieguyn]

hi Sakura <3

@MS:

I'm curious as to what "scumslip" you think you found. moreover, if you think I slipped, why is beeboy a stronger scumread than me?

[pieguyn]

wait where did you catch up?

brb finding it

[pieguyn]

You make me sad, no question directed at me.

I can't exactly sort you when you have nothing to sort and aren't caught up or even present in the game thread. I was waiting for you to catch up before sorting you.

what were you expecting me to ask?

This doesnt sound like the pie I know...

if it helps you sort me, I don't have any strong scumeads

what were you expecting me to sound like, knowing full well I'm in the process of burning my "pie is aggro all the timeas town" meta? I'm not exactly going to hard push anything until I feel sure about it.

Wait what, since when was ok for an hydra to explain their lack of scumhunting with "I haven't conversed with my hydra partner", I haven't seen nacho all day and that doesn't deter me from scumhunting.

they aren't scumhunting, but they are townhunting

it's not like they're doing nothing at all. my scum read on them came from them not making any waves in the game - however, this can be explained by them not convening at all up to this point. as an example, remember o569 how GIF and I mostly just posted townreads on ppl for the first RL day or so of the game? we didn't really do anything controversial in that game until a few days in, either. their recent posting has also looked better.

That's what i'm thinking.

if it helps, one of the main problems I have with MS is dumbfuck players who never cooperate with anyone or who do stupid shit for no reason

I tried to take a more "nice" approach this time around. as you'd figure, it didn't work

--------------------------------

why are you scumreading haj independent of "scum theater"? I don't see how you went from the one quote you brought up in your catchup to asking "what is town about anything he's doing", although I haven't read the past 3-4 pages yet. also, do you have any other scumreads?

[pieguyn]

Nothing, but no one's gonna even lynch him anyways so why bother.

p-edit: opportunist.

-F

you are aware Alchemist actually voted mollie a while back and voted again solely bc GIF missed his vote change, right?

[pieguyn]

I dunno, considering you'd know i was in the game i'd be expecting you to find your usual "Hey Sakura what do you think about X" or "Hey Sakura what do you think about Y's way of saying Z" or stuff like that.

I can't exactly ask you stuff when

1. you're not here
2. you haven't caught up with the thread yet

do you disagree that if I had asked you anything, it wouldn't have gone anywhere at that point?

I am fully aware that you're changing your playstyle, but im getting scumvibes from your current "unknown" playstyle because i dont recall seeing any "town" or "scum" version of your current "unknown" playstyle, as on Hope+5 you completely went full tunnel on Bulge like you usually do.

you are aware this game hasn't even been open 12 RL hours, correct?

my tunnel on Bulge didn't come until the game was well underway, and if you'll remember, it started off as a weak "bulge is avoiding the thread". it wasn't until he showed up and started being scummy as fuck that GIF and I started railing on him.

to put things in perspective, at this point in RL-time in o569, that Bins lolwagon right from the start of the game was in full swing. the game was still very heavily in passive territory for me until Titus came in and we started pushing her.

Then why didn't you bring this at the time instead of saying "Oh hey they haven't talked in hydra, so ok, that makes sense".

I did ._. go back and look for it, it's there

did you miss it or smth?

When i agreed about "scum teathre" i was referring to the way you and hej were interacting. The more "nice" approach could very well be because you know his alignment regardless of what it is, and that's what pinged me

well yeah, I was explaining why I took the "nice" approach here

what was the thing that Om said that bugged you? and what are your thoughts on mollie?

[pieguyn]

@sakura: here vv

it sounded more like an excuse to me.

~Wis

the first time GIF and I hydra'd after my semi-break, we mostly did townhunting and had fun in the early game and didn't start scumhunting until a few RL days into the game. I could potentially see a similar approach from Fei/caled and, speaking of tonally strong posts, Fei's one post to me counted as one.

I don't think they're town, but if I scum read them, it prob won't come until a bit later once they start doing shit

[pieguyn]

Why does the time open from the game matter for you to start doing your thing? and Bulge was away for most of the game on V/LA to begin with.

the time open by itself doesn't really matter, that was part of the analogy

the point is, this early in the game, there isn't much serious content from each player to go off of, and so no one's done anything to give me that strong of a scum read (just like how in o569 the main wagon was still a lolwagon based around mostly RVS votes, since no one had done anything serious)

even in o569 when we started scumreading Titus, I never hard pushed that read because I was never sure about it. the closest I got was that one wall case I made on her. even with Bulge, it took a little bit for me to build up to the point where I was legitimately deathtunneling him, and it happened because, almost immediately after we started pushing him, GIF and I both spotted what we perceived as contradictions, which is a pretty sure sign of someone being scum. this game hasn't yet reached the point where I can feel particularly sure about a scum read.

Maybe yes, Maybe not, the way I look at it, I was inviting you to interact with me from my very first post and you blatantly ignored it.

I was taking that as you poking fun at the fact we would always 1v1 every single game

it didn't occur to me that was you reaching out to me :/ I figured we would start working together as soon as you did show up.


I approve of the Om post that bugged you, as well as the rest of what you've said. what do you make of the point that mollie is very good at overreacting to things as scum? (or are you saying she was overreacting a lot in PVZ as town)

[pieguyn]

anyway, based on recent pages, haj and beeboy look town

TOWN (S->W): notsci, Sakura, beast, purple, Curiosity <gap> Gaiden, Jazukure, beeboy, haj
{Saki, Kagami, DOAA, Time, NPAU, Om, Alchemist, Ankamius, Jingle}
SCUM (W->S): AD, mollie

vote: mollie

[pieguyn]

Don't like that post much

get the hell out of my head

[pieguyn]

Also I disagree. See how mollie attacks Mala but shut up when I came into the thread? She's scared of pushing me.

~Wis

btw she did this with me too

she's pushing me as scum, but literally hasn't interacted with me at all. she also backed off her vote on me for no reason.

speaking of said vote,

@mollie:

@mollie:

why did you vote me earlier, when I wasn't even in PVZ?

[pieguyn]

how the fuck did we get 15 more pages overnight

I don't feel like reading this right now. I'll do it later

[pieguyn]

although I did see someone point out haj might = Wake

if it is, I'm fucking policy'ing him

[pieguyn]

@pirate mollie:

@mollie:

why did you vote me earlier, when I wasn't even in PVZ?

[/quote]

[pieguyn]

Pie is suspicous null-town

due to his recent posts being goof but first ones were not

how did you go from here:

Pieman - recents posts are pro town

, Nommynommers - first or one of the first to start scum hunting, Charizard - gut read op

to there, given I hadn't made any posts in between?

[pieguyn]

oh that's a typo

caaaaaaarry on

[pieguyn]

beeboy looks town recently; Kagami voting beeboy for 746 feels way too easy, given someone defending themselves via "who's my partner" is more of a newb trait than a scum trait.

can someone run me through why they think Kagami is town? nothing she's done so far has town motivation. what are ppl seeing that I'm not?

I'm more or less townreading mollie at this point cos her posting during the entire Curiosity shitstorm came off genuine. it would also be pretty low to put personal problems to leverage your attack on someone as scum, and I don't think she would do that. I also liked DOAA's psoting recently, namely the way he was trying to throw himself into Curiosity x mollie and break it up - esp him saying it would be better if they got sorted via night actions, that was p genuine

that's... literally all I got from those 15 pages. I feel like I have too many townreads atm

vote: AD

TOWN (S->W): notsci, Sakura, beast, purple, Curiosity, beeboy <gap> Gaiden, mollie, haj <gap> Jazukure, DOAA
{Saki, Time, NPAU, Om, Alchemist, Ankamius, Jingle}
SCUM (W->S): Kagami, AD

[pieguyn]

also, where the fuck is NPAU?

he obviously confirmed, but has done jack and shit

[pieguyn]

brackets = null/unsorted

[pieguyn]

how are you all interpreting 1157 as a 3rd party claim? I disagree with the idea that him asking about that = 3rd party.

I could potentially see Jingle as scum. I don't like the way he's just sitting there doing nothing either

@Sakura: what are your thoughts on Kagami and AD?

[pieguyn]

Null and Null, neither of them has done anything memorable, and specially AD has done a whole lot of nothing.
It could be because of the massive ammount of posts has drowned their voice, but I can't really recall anything of importance from either except Kagami saying that beeboy saying "Who are my partners?" is a scum tell (to which i disagree)

both of them did practically nothing and Dan in particular feels like he's deliberately trying to not make any waves in the game

do you think Kagami believes that angle about "who are my partners"? it looked fake to me and I think she would have at the very least at least one better idea than pushing an associative before the actual flip.

do you think there is a scum between the massive lurkers (Saki, npau)?

can I get a rain check on that? I don't wanna make that call just yet.

[pieguyn]

has NPAU even posted since game start?...

nope

[pieguyn]

oh god what you just said reminds me of Bulge from o569 .-.

no response to my question?

p-edit: @sakura

[pieguyn]

Her angle seems to be genuine but the way she's pushing it seems to be fake, i dont know if im making myself clear with this, it's like she's pushing it way harder than it should, when at best it should be something null on beeboy's part, and I dont like how she didnt like what Dreams said afterwards earlier, it seems like she's trying too hard, but then it reminds me of her previous games with me too so >_> I'm having a hard time with this one.

for me it came off "forced" as opposed to "trying too hard"

like, I have a lot of difficulty believing she came in and that's the best thing she saw, given it was tbh a really shallow angle to push and something that's ultimately null

and I didn't like the way she backed off and moved onto DOAA either - it just felt really fake

I'm getting really weird vibes from her

[pieguyn]

backed off

well this is kind of an exaggeration, she didn't really back off beeboy, but the point is I didn't like the way she accused DOAA

[pieguyn]

oh also, the main reason I'm townreading jakuzure comes from their treatment of haj. "I guess he's town, but I'm still gonna call him out on his shit". I can def relate to that kind of attitude where they're frustrated at how much of a dumbfuck he's being and want to just yell at him.

I do agree they need to do smth that isn't just townreading and defending everyone. I thought their early play looked like textbook scum trying to buddy everyone and avoid antagonizing too many ppl early game.

[pieguyn]

actually I looked back at it again

jakuzure was calling haj's vote "opportunist", when there weren't even any votes on jakuzure. it feels more like a bullshit scum excuse than anything

feirei never explained his thought process there?

[pieguyn]

sureeee

vote: Kagami

[pieguyn]

Dont like the Kagami wagon. Don't see any case on him. Votes going in too fast for the amount of reasoning provided.

why is the last sentence a valid reason for not liking a wagon?

also, I'm aware you were just skimming, but there was at least one case (albeit small) made on her, by myself: namely, her reasoning in 746 was way too easy, and I don't believe the best thing she could come up with is an associative before the flip that is ultimately null. it makes perfect sense for scum-Kagami, though. do you disagree with that, and what are your thoughts on Jingle's case?

[pieguyn]

yo MS

wagon Kagami with us

[pieguyn]

Kagami's reaction to being wagoned is quite possibly the scummiest thing I've seen in this game so far. I'll explain exactly why later, but in the meantime, can someone tell me why they think her most recent posts can come from a town player?

beeboy's vote is fine. Alchemist's vote is the worst, but I imagine regardless of Kagami's alignment, there'd be at least one scum bussing her, don't you think?

[pieguyn]

btw re: Jingle's case, the first point is p much the exact same reason I was scumreading her. the rest of the case is kind of a stretch, but I don't exactly think it's disingenuous

if I scum read him, it would be for other reasons. I sure as hell prefer a Kagami lynch right now

[pieguyn]

Explain?

there is a distinct lack of town motivation in any of it

it was basically just her trying to shrug the wagon on her off

her scum reads supposedly consist of 3/4 ppl who wagoned her, and then beeboy. the OMGUS is strong in this one. yet, despite that, she didn't seem to care at all about interacting with anyone on the wagon - like the part where she thinks Jingle's case is supposedly so ridiculous and that he's scum, but puts 0 effort into dismantling said case and showing why it's disingenuous/comes from a scum agenda/etc. I don't understand what she was trying to gain with her question towards beeboy (1402), and it feels more like scum trying to spin the narrative that the wagon on her is unwarranted as opposed to anything town would ask.

do you disagree?

[pieguyn]

was this Nat?

if so, I'd love to hear why you have a scum read on me

[pieguyn]

Yea those were Nati. She's going to bed though so gotta wait till tomorrow!

tell her to get in here and explain why she's scumreading me when she gets back

cos if she's reading me the way I think she is, she of all people should know better than to do that

[pieguyn]

also I disagree with "xxx isn't obvscum as scum" logic, just via principle

someone who plays a nightmare scumgame one game can suck ass the next scumgame. so, just because Kagami reacted in a weak way to her wagon doesn't make her town. I agree it's possible she is just apathetic this game for some reason

however, when you discount that and look at the motivation, it's still scum motivated. so yeah

[pieguyn]

In 1080, he votes me for the "easy" beeboy vote, which is itself the easy vote given the gamestate.

1. I voted AD in that post, not you. I voted you when Om/sakura/me decided to wagon you.
2. iirc, I was the first person to call you scum and point out that beeboy vote was easy, and the one who was mostly pushing you as scum as opposed to following along. so, how is that an "easy" vote or otherwise an easy stance to take?

He mentions jingle's case in 1293 implying that it's something that he agrees with and is worth considering. It's not, it's a terrible case. I don't think it's possible for anyone actually looking to divine alignment would consider it citation worthy.

errrrrrrr

you are aware the whole point of that question was to get NPIAU to take a stance on Jingle's case, given he had mentioned earlier there wasn't enough reasoning for your wagon? I don't particularly agree with the rest of Jingle's case besides the first point. my scum read on you comes from the reasoning behind your beeboy vote and your subsequent reaction to being wagoned.

that said, care to explain why you believe beeboy defending himself via "who's my partner" necessarily has to be a scum x scum interaction as opposed to him being a newb? also explain what you were trying to accomplish with 1402.

[pieguyn]

btw what is projection? I've seen that term used before but I never found out what it was

[pieguyn]

btw what is projection? I've seen that term used before but I never found out what it was

somebody answer this plz and thx

[pieguyn]

Re: 2- By the same logic, I was the first to push beeboy as scum despite all the rubbish that newb-poster somehow means town. Being first isn't what "easy" means. An easy stance is one that has little risk of retaliation from the town, and often an original stance that is speciously reasonable is the easiest stance.

errrrrrrr no

you were definitely not the first to push beeboy as scum. iirc, when you voted him, not only did he have a wagon on him, a lot of ppl were in general skeptical about him. correct me if I'm wrong about this

an easy stance is one that requires little to no effort to push, which is more likely to come from scum than town since it's easier to fake things that require no effort. the beeboy vote falls under that bc your reason was an associative tell that isn't actually true if you think hard enough about it. what you're talking about is what I usually think of as a safe stance.

either way, how exactly does pushing beeboy not have a low risk of retaliation, given a lot of ppl were suspicious of him? also answer my last 2 questions in 1641.

[pieguyn]

what do you wanna talk about?

[pieguyn]

Unvote
Vote: Jingle

Back to this I suppose, I still don't see pie-scum... and now i dont see Kagami-Scum either...
Which means imma have to revise my reads...

disagree. the way Kagami is pushing reads here is very indicative of her being scum. I don't really know how to explain this (the best way I can think of is, in general, she is flippantly ignoring evidence that might contradict the arguments she wants to push and trying to act like it never existed, as opposed to fitting her reads to the evidence at hand - it's really subtle, but she's done it enough at this point that I think it's coming from scum), but I don't think anything she's doing at all is genuine in the slightest.

also, I still think 1402 was a scum post designed to spin the narrative that her wagon was unreasonable - the fact that she just proceeded to come in and go "there is not a single reasonable vote on my wagon" supports it

[pieguyn]

most of what Curiosity has posted resonated a lot with me - there are a lot of examples of this but the most recent one is Wisdom's thoughts on Kagami are basically aligned with mine perfectly. and I don't particularly see anything scummy in their play to make me second guess the read

why do you think Kagami is town?

[pieguyn]

And here it is again. This is exactly what pie-scum does and here he is doing it again. I haven't ignored anything.

you are objectively wrong about, at the least, the points in your "case" on me (e.g. the part about you being the "first" to push beeboy). I pointed out why you were wrong, and your response to that was to....... ignore it and continue pushing me as scum

so yes, you are ignoring evidence that is contrary to the angle you want to push

town who are forming reads will take into account new information as it comes in and evaluate accordingly. scum who are pushing reads will generally have a pre-made conclusion in mind, and will ignore evidence when it is inconvenient for them. what you are doing here is the latter

also, answer my first question at the end of 1641 instead of dodging it

No, it was a very simple and straightforward question designed to force newbscum to generate associations. Of course, it doesn't bother you that he ignored it.

let's get smth clear first. do you have reasons for scumreading beeboy that weren't his scum x scum interaction with Ank? if so, what?

[pieguyn]

yo notsci

you've seen scum Kagami before, right? what do you make of her reaction to pressure in this game?

[pieguyn]

The only time I've seen scum-Kagami is in Inuyasha where I wasn't actually paying the most attention

didn't you link me a Kagami scum game in the mason QT in touhou upick 2?

I'm asking this cos I remember you telling me scum Kagami was really OMGUSy, and I looked at the game you linked in there, and her response to pressure in this game was very similar to her response to pressure there - namely, her ISO from there was full of cheap potshots and discredits like the one at the end of 1759. there were other posts that fit with this parallel.

[pieguyn]

i just cntrl+f "kagami" in curiosity's iso and i came up with jack shit

it was "oh lol, kagami's scum" along with a bunch of one-liner pushes
, i' m not sure what you read that
SO RESONATED with you

i'm calling bullshit

re: Kagami, it's the overall trajectory of the read that resonated with me:

they started by telling her she shouldn't do associatives before the flip (809), and then being skeptical of Kagami finding scum motivation in that one post by beeboy (815), which they were correct to do. then when everyone backed off for...... no reason, he was there to point it out (1520). then his thoughts on the wagon itself (1552) also aligned with mine, then I also agreed with 1690.

this is...... for the most part, exactly what I thought about her. is it 100% evidence they're town? hell no, but they hit all the right notes in the way they handled the read.

that's not the only thing they did that resonated with me, either - basically everything they're doing this game resonates at that level. if you want I can pull up all the things from them I liked, but it'd be a very, very long walk and I'm lazy .-.

[pieguyn]

This is scum. It's obvious scum. It's defended by scum.

^speaking of cheap potshots, here's one

care to respond to my latest post instead of ignoring me?

[pieguyn]

Also, did someone other than MS softdefend kagami? I seem to remember that.

Time did too, iirc. in that one post he made he said smth along the lines of not getting the Kagami wagon

[pieguyn]

misremembered. he said this:

Can someone explain the Kagami wagon, please?

[pieguyn]

she's still scum. what did you like about her latest posts?

[pieguyn]

btw why doesn't AD-scum work with Kagami-scum? I still think he's prob scum and dat RVS vote. Kagami also had a town read on him the majority of the game.

[pieguyn]

she didn't actually have a point. a lot of what she was saying was objectively wrong. then when I told her why it was wrong she ignored it and continued trying to push me as scum.

[pieguyn]

that was just her explaining what projection was, which is null

[pieguyn]

projection = a scum player calling other ppl out for what is scummy about their own play

it's not that definition in this context. unless you're saying I figured out a way to do that in mafia?

[pieguyn]

Kagami said me calling her beeboy vote easy was a projection bc my push on her was supposedly the easiest/safest thing to do at the time

which I obv disagree with

p-edit: WHY DO WE KEEP NINJA'ING EACH OTHER

[pieguyn]

no shit

technically it would be, but it's still a stretch. she never explained why she thought her reason was a valid reason for voting beeboy either

p-edit: @Sakura

[pieguyn]

when she gets back tell Nat I wanna talk with her. plz and thx

[pieguyn]

hey NPIAU

you were clearly paying enough attention to the game to see there was a wagon on Kagami. moreover, I see you called the Jingle wagon a "wagon of awesomeness". is there any particular reason you would think this, given you supposedly were far enough behind to not post any reads?

I'd also love to hear why you think this:

The fact that people are refusing to give the reason too leads me to believe this is a bad wagon.

is a good reason for not liking a wagon.

[pieguyn]

I think the way NPIAU came back into the thread and went straight for asking about the Kagami wagon, looked like scum who was unsure if they should bus or counterwagon their partner. he was happening to pay enough attention to notice a wagon on Kagami growing, but didn't post any reads or thoughts on the game; with scum-NPIAU town-Kagami, I don't see why he would randomly pop in to check on the mislynch wagon of the day instead of just waiting and coming back with a better looking post.

[pieguyn]

And I think it's town-driven

yes, this is the part I'm asking about

you supposedly thought the ppl on the wagon were town, but never felt like posting those reads anywhere? (well save DOAA, but the point still holds with om/Ank)

Yes. Sketchy as fuck

yes, I want to know *why* it's sketchy as fuck

[pieguyn]

Om is a gut town I did not mention yes. Don't really know who Ank is

do you have reasoning besides "gut" for reading Om as town?

I feel like the people on Kagami's wagon is pushing like mad fuck for her lynch and condemning anyone who thought otherwise as her scumbuddy. Is that sketchy enough?

let's back up a second. do you think the Kagami wagon is scum driven, or town driven but misguided?

[pieguyn]

Pie does need to be lynched. He's scum.

Wisdom needs to be lynched. He's scum or the most toxic and terrible town scum could hope for.

Beeboy needs to be forced to make associations. He's newscum.

^^^ any reason you didn't list off Jingle here?

[pieguyn]

er..... I explained that I wasn't actually endorsing his case already

anyway, I feel like this Kagami lynch is specifically designed to mislead the fuck out of everyone. this feels way too easy, and I do not believe scum Kagami wouldn't roll over and die without having some kind of plan going. I'm thinking back to Jingle's case and I think it's possible the reason it was so much of a stretch at various points was bc he was bussing her.

(no, I do not want to lynch Jingle atm)

[pieguyn]

by itself that's a null tell

as I said before, her play is still scum motivated - the fact that it hardly took any effort to get this wagon could indicate either she's being bussed or she is just apathetic for whatever reason, or anything else. it is never a good idea to write anyone off either way with that kind of logic

p-edit: @MS

[pieguyn]

like you weren't in the first mafia in the land of fantasy were you

what happened in that game was scum Gaiden got lynched D1 and I was sitting there going "HE CANT BE SCUM, THIS WAGON IS WAY TOO EASY" and pushing Varsoon as a counterwagon really really hard. turns out zmuffin was just bussing him the whole time. so, yeah

[pieguyn]

meanwhile, kagami is stronger than her scumteam


kagami busses her scumteam

not the other way round

that won't exactly work when she's the one who got flashwagoned

what I'm saying is we wagoned her, then the scumteam started bussing her in response to that

[pieguyn]

ok if kagami is scum, she's getting the shit bussed out of her

who's doing it and why?

Jingle was initially like the 5th vote on her. after that the wagon exploded. after he made that case, he can't exactly back off without a good reason.

it's a huge stretch and I don't want to call this without a flip, but both Jingle and Kagami being scum here would also explain why she'd get bussed really hard, since scum doesn't have any other option.

[pieguyn]

and the more I think about it, the more I think Jingle x Kagami is scum x scum

scum know that they are correct, but not why they are correct. thus, when scum bus their partners, the push they end up making will often end up being completely ridiculous. the way Jingle initially went about the Kagami push reads as a case of this - especially the last few points he made seem like they're coming from a typical POV of scum who are seeing scummy things about their partner's play that aren't actually scummy.

@p-edit: yo notsci, what do you want to see from me that you aren't seeing?

[pieguyn]

also is that L-1

brb checking

[pieguyn]

His flavor is confirmed.

Those who were in Touhou 2

Was varsoon confirmed as cirno or am I forgetting something?

p sure this was in the first touhou upick but not the 2nd one

[pieguyn]

the last one had that mechanic where the votes got locked on Varsoon/Feirei, fwiw. I just ISO'ed FG in that game and didn't find a flavor confirmation anywhere

and yeah, it is L-1

[pieguyn]

mollie's naughty pile:

kagami
jingle
nacho/sakura - completely dependent on how nacho interacts with me
om
alchemist

pie who else is in your naughty pile?

TOWN (S->W): Sakura, notsci, beast, purple, Curiosity, beeboy, mollie <gap> Gaiden, DOAA <gap> Jakuzure, haj, Ankamius
{Saki, Time, Om, Alchemist}
SCUM (W->S): Dan, NPIAU, Jingle <gap> Kagami

I don't like the way NPIAU so happened to be sitting there paying enough attention to the Kagami wagon and apparently nothing else. moreover, he kept claiming there was "not enough reasoning provided for that many votes", which is a kinda bullshit excuse for not liking a wagon. I didn't have a problem with his explanation, but I think the overall narrative here points more towards scum than town. I also thought the way he asked about the wagon the second time looked like scum who was unsure to bus or not, so they ask a probing question in order to gauge how serious the wagon is. (note: idk if this makes sense with a Kagami x Jingle team, but I'm not gonna guess the entire scumteam on D1)

Dan's play this game leans scum who is just sitting there coasting and deliberately not making any waves in the game. most of what he's posted has been extremely safe.

if Kagami is town (ftr I'm >90% on her flipping scum), Ank is def scum bc of the way he treated her wagon - saying he doesn't like the wagon, but only giving a vague reason as opposed to having arguments or disliking someone on the wagon (iirc. correct me if I'm wrong here) it's what scum do when they want some town cred when a mislynch goes through. however, I'm not interested in pursuing that atm

I don't ever explain this ever but jesus christ you obviously need it.

fwiw, it was not even remotely obvious that was what you were doing. please, there's no reason to get annoyed over it :/

[pieguyn]

oh btw @Sakura: what do you make of Gaiden's lurking? iirc he lurks as scum a lot, but idk if he does it as town too

[pieguyn]

index/railgun are both fucking amazing

4 seasons in total (2 seasons of each). you should enjoy it :3

[pieguyn]

plz explain why im less town than gaiden

Gaiden is Sakura's read, full stop. however I don't know how she's going about reading him so he's not in my top town group.

[pieguyn]

haj, why did you hammer?

[pieguyn]

index would prob be better to watch first, so you can get accustomed to the universe

you can watch railgun S1 after index S1 (and I recommend doing so). S2 too

[pieguyn]

there is quite a huge difference between a L-1 vote and a hammer vote

the latter ends the day and cuts off discussion

I don't particularly mind, but meh

[pieguyn]

index S1 -> after that it doesn't matter. I just recommend railgun first cos it's awesome and I liked having a change of pace :3

[pieguyn]

So you don't mind, but "meh?"

it would have been nice to, you know, get a claim and not end the day until everyone is ready

but I prob would never have fixed the read, so yeah

[pieguyn]

{Dan, Jingle, Ankamius, +2}. maybe jakuzure now that I think about it

tis as far as I've got

[pieguyn]

I'm watching Strawberry Panic. I have nothing else to watch ._.

[pieguyn]

well it could still be NPIAU. he basically did the same thing Ank did

p-edit: WISDOM STOP NINJA'ING ME

[pieguyn]

AD is town.

if you get the chance, summarize why?

[pieguyn]

she's flipping town. part of me wants to hope she's just trolling the fuck out of everyone, but twilight doesn't lie.

and yes, I think NPIAU and Ank were WK'ing her

[pieguyn]

why is jingle town, besides him not being scum with me?

why is Time town?

[pieguyn]

He made the effort to make a crappy case against me. Yes, it was silly, but he didn't have to do it. There's not really any scum motivation to do so, and it kind of sounds like he believed it. That's a somewhat weaker read.

disagree. there is absolutely scum motivation in making up your own, original case in order to add to the reasons someone is scum. Jingle is also fairly good at scum and I'd rather not write him off as town bc it sounds like he believes his case. do you disagree?

[pieguyn]

@Kagami:

disagree. there is absolutely scum motivation in making up your own, original case in order to add to the reasons someone is scum. Jingle is also fairly good at scum and I'd rather not write him off as town bc it sounds like he believes his case. do you disagree?

[pieguyn]

Kagami, your list is missing Jakuzure (and notsci). what are your thoughts there?

[pieguyn]

and can we fucking not spam the thread?

there's a time for this shit. twilight when we're getting reads from a dead player is not one of them.

[pieguyn]

I think she's gone

riiiiiiiiiiip

[pieguyn]

Kagamiiiiiiiii

Kagami, your list is missing Jakuzure (and notsci). what are your thoughts there?

[pieguyn]

hope u enjoy it

you should, it's really fucking amazing

[pieguyn]

Railgun or index?

both

it's the same series, railgun is a side story. both are fucking amazing :3

[pieguyn]

I got to episode 4 of SAO and then never felt like continuing

the same thing happened when I got to ep 8 of lucky star. pls don't hate me .-.

[pieguyn]

what do you mean by "lateral"?

[pieguyn]

I would think noragami might be your cup of tea if you like the To Arus

never heard of it, I'll check it out owo

Saki Zenkoku-hen
Imocho
first 4 episodes of SAO
ARIA The ANIMATION
first like 5 or 6 episodes of Ouran HSHC (notsci was watching it with caled and told me to watch it but then they got way ahead of me and I got bored and quit)
Strawberry Panic

^everything I've watched recently. I don't watch very much ._.

[pieguyn]

I think I'd take NPIAU over Ank. there were a few Ank posts I really liked, compared to NPIAU who hasn't done anything town.

regardless of Jingle's alignment, I think scum were more or less split between the 2 wagons. I can't tell if it was WK'ing, or them lining up a second lynch.

[pieguyn]

am I the only 1 who loved attack on titan?

haven't seen it

I've read the first like 3 or 4 chapters of the manga, but that's it

[pieguyn]

based on reasoning, Jingle is the worst offender

I'm trying to remember what jakuzure's reason was. and now that I'm thinking about it again, NPIAU was at least able to point out specific names on the wagon when I asked him about it.

Ank didn't have good reasoning either, but looking through his ISO he had a town read on you the majority of the game so it makes a bit more sense (although I want him to tell me the basis for the town read)

[pieguyn]

Alchemist didn't have much of a reason either, iirc

fuck me that's basically everyone. I'll think about it more later

[pieguyn]

Jakuzure was just sheeping. not only that, but posts like 1986 could be taken as buddying at the same time. I feel like if someone was pushing the wagon using Wisdom as a cover, it's them, but I haven't looked at anyone else in depth at this point.

I'm about to faint any second now. anything else you wanna discuss?

[pieguyn]

vvvvvv
CLAIM: REIMU (PC-98), MASON. I AM TOWN. VOTES OFF

^^^^^^

I'm still betting DOAA is town and either got redirected or scum have a framing type of role. there's no reason for him to fake a guilty on me to get me lynched when he was townread by most anyway. more incoming

[pieguyn]

Ugh i hate bus drivers...

could potentially see this. makes the most sense and is the only role that makes any sense really - either that or an old-school redirector

I'm like halfway through this and so far I don't like anything Dan did this game day - it's all pointless filler. it's also noted that he sees soft guilties on both Jakuzure (I'm assuming that's who this is) and me, yet doesn't vote Jakuzure and votes me immediately.

Ank's treatment of my wagon reads scum WK'ing and p much fits with what he did yesterday with Kagami.

it's noted there's like no votes on Jingle after the wagon the previous day. after being unsure if Jingle was getting half-assed bussed or not, I wanted to observe if he got wagoned again today and he didn't, but idk if this means anything

p-edit: you are saying you faked it?

[pieguyn]

if you did I can't particularly say I mind even though I'd rather you wouldn't have. I was expecting to get wagoned at some point anyway .-.

also, now that I've outed this, there's another (really obvious to anyone who's paying attention) reason Dan is scum. a certain someone in this game should catch on to what it is

[pieguyn]

it's p fucking obvious Dan thought haj was softing a guilty on Jakuzure. yet he doesn't vote them, and votes me immediately

it's not really that strong given MS supposedly got an actual guilty on me, but it is noted

[pieguyn]

You got wagoned as soon as i voted you when alchemist was being wagoned does that mean anything to you?
I mean you used to talk about there always being coutnerwagons to scum and what not

timing of the wagon doesn't particularly matter here given it was supposedly the result of a guilty

I could potentally see Alchemist as scum though. I haven't solidified the read there either way yet

I liked neither Om's nor NPIAU's jump onto your wagon. What are your thoughts there?

haven't read too much into it yet although I liked one of NPIAU's posts today a lot (although at the same time I reread overnight and thought he was prob scum)

[pieguyn]

The opportunism is real.

Look at the end of the pieguy wagon. There's def scum in there.

you're aware I kind of sort of had a guilty on me right?

also why were you townreading Kagami yesterday?

[pieguyn]

I liked neither Om's nor NPIAU's jump onto your wagon. What are your thoughts there?

what didn't you like about either of them? there was no reasoning attached to either one

I also think scum are more likely to hedge in this scenario given they 100% know whatever result DOAA got has to be wrong (discounting any kind of SK/multiball), whereas town are less likely to care about putting up any reasoning when there's a guilty on the table. this isn't exactly a strong reason given it's not hard at all for scum to fake it, but I think both of them were null

although I just remembered something, let me check again

[pieguyn]

and the point with the other thing is, I would expect town to be more likely to vote me or do anything instead of..... actively trying to derail the wagon. Ank didn't jump on the wagon, he was defending me.

[pieguyn]

I didn't like the lack of reasoning, which showed lazyness IMO. I also didn't like the blatant disregard for how quickly you were getting to those numbers.

It would have been rather easy for scum to jump onto that wagon and hammer then try to pin everything on MS the next day.

there's a guilty on the table

who is more likely to be lazy in that scenario, keeping in mind the guilty means pressure is off of town for a day?

Why would scum try to derail your wagon. I'm seeing optimal situation from the scum POV of you getting lynched before you can claim, flipping town, and then a flashwagon on MS for 'faking' a guilty. That's two days of minimal discussion and myslynches, while they get to NK whoever is the scariest.

meh

I see what you're saying, but in a scenario like this I wouldn't expect one scum trying to derail the wagon to change anything. if there was a scenario where I would get flashlynched, it would happen regardless of if Ank was WK'ing me or not.

p-edit: also, what Wisdom said

[pieguyn]

beast might be scum actually

I don't like the way he disappeared for a large majority of D1 after notsci announced he had a townread on him - that is generally more likely to come from scum who are manipulating their meta. it also makes the notsci kill make more sense although he was a valid kill regardless of what beast is

btw, the

in your post didn't work

[pieguyn]

when the hell did they fix that? I meant to write [ area][ /area]

[pieguyn]

And no AD is a terrible lynch. Leave him alone.

MS's argument for AD being scum is actually the exact same as the argument I mysteriously referenced earlier. (that, and AD's play this game being coasting scum 101)

that said MS if you're going to rail on him for not claiming you should rail on me too

[pieguyn]

TOWN (S->W):

Curiosity

<gap> Sakura, purple, beeboy, mollie, DOAA <gap> Gaiden, haj, beast*
{Saki, Time, Om, NPIAU*, Alchemist*}
SCUM (W->S): Ankamius*, Jingle, Jakuzure, Dan

* = reads I'm fluctuating on a lot. I liked a lot of Ank's posting throughout this entire game, but his treatment of both me/Kagami read as scum trying to gain towncred when a mislynch goes through (and he would have gained a lot if I got quicklynched and he was sitting there trying to stop it). I didn't like the way he was posturing based on "opportunism" either, it read as scum setting up for a push the next day on the off chance I did get quicklynched.

Jakuzure's D1 pushes basically consisted of sheeping mollie on Curiosity and then sheeping Wisdom on Kagami. the rest of her play has consisted of a lot of buddying and safe stances, especially their early game - leans scum trying to avoid antagonizing anyone or making waves in the game. the fact that their pushes were.... quite literally entirely sheeping other ppl reinforces that

the rest of Jingle's case on Kagami was indeed a hugeass stretch. I don't particularly think anything else he did was scummy though

there is probably at least one scum who proceeded without taking a stance either way on my lynch - this would necessarily be true if they were planning on getting me flashlynched

[pieguyn]

sure

vote: AD

[pieguyn]

in this position you can either follow along with the wagono or say "THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE, ABORT"

most of the players in the game did that - they took a stance on the wagon

however, you can also take a third option and choose not to commit either way. if the scum team was trying to get me quicklynched, at least one scum would necessarily fall into this group, since they'd have to wait till the hammer vote to vote me.

I'm aware MS does fake guilties, but he confirmed later it was a legit guilty. I don't specifically have a problem with that reasoning, I'm just saying

[pieguyn]

@Ank:

what in Jingle's recent play did you find scummy?

[pieguyn]

WTF

are you and Dan doing the neighbor->mason gambit, or are you all actually masons?

moreover, if you are doing the neighbor->mason gambit, was it Dan's idea, or yours?

this is a very important question, please answer it TRUTHFULLY. if you are gambiting, it is in no way pro-town at this point to continue doing so.

[pieguyn]

we are not

now answer the question. this is actually really important

[pieguyn]

thx

we're lynching Dan today

[pieguyn]

no, we are fucking going to lynch Dan

him getting beeboy to claim masons with him is explicitly scum motivated. Wis is right that if he had this as a legit idea for a gambit, it would make more sense to decide it at the start of the game. he probably wasn't expecting a set of actual masons in this game. it makes more sense that he invented it as a half-assed gambit to get through and coast the entire game (which, incidentally, is consistent with his play being coasting scum 101. SEE A PATTERN?)

[pieguyn]

townreads based on neighborhoods should ALWAYS be reevaluated, by the way

scum who play neighborhoods will explicitly target them in order to avoid suspicion from their neighbors

believe me, it's happened before. you think you can resist being manipulated, and then you find out your entire neighborhood was scum and go "what the fuck"

[pieguyn]

I haven't yet looked into who explicitly avoided taking a stance, and yes, Curiosity is my partner

I honestly don't give a shit about the possibility of MS being scum. his play looks town and I think I figured out what role he has where he'd get a positive result on me. I don't remember him faking a guilty firsthand but anti and some other ppl were referencing suburban warfare where he supposedly faked a guilty. what is the scum motivation in deliberately rushing a lynch on me to get me to publicly out my role, when they could instead just sit back and watch as everyone continues to be suspicious of me?

(and when I say guilty, I mean a positive/implicating result)

[pieguyn]

btw, early massclaims are really not as bad as you all seem to think

in several cases, the info gained by putting everyone's role on the table, as well as forcing scum into certain fakeclaims early on, is worth it. a lot of the time it's not and you won't know until you try it though

[pieguyn]

2ndly I never voted you

this is true; paaaaardon me. I still think you're scum though

(also, the point with the other thing was if you're in a neighborhood it is not unreasonable to guess there won't be a masonry in the game)

[pieguyn]

This is also a really strong bus if dan iis scum no one bothered to defend him but me which i dont like

not strictly true. I know Ank is at least defending him. there might have been others, but you have to keep in mind whether someone defends someone back on D1 won't be relevant here.

[pieguyn]

if you haven't taken a look at who specifically did not take a stance then why are you saying that scum are in the 1s who did not take a stance?

cos it's true? if scum were leaving themselves the option open to quicklynch me, there is necessarily at least one scum who was not voting me but didn't call me town either.

if you don't remember metal faking a guilty firsthand then why did you bring it up in the first place?

cos it's true? Anti and some other ppl had literally just mentioned he had done that in suburban warfare.

what's a WB cop?

[pieguyn]

er, what I'm saying is, given you knew there was a set of neighbors in this game, it would not be unreasonable for scum-you to think you could do a neighbor->mason gambit and go unCC'ed for the entire game. and even if there were a set of masons in the game, it would still allow you to get to wherever it gets revealed without much effort

and even if you do get CC'ed, it doesn't mean you're automatically scum, so I don't get why you're trying to claim you would foresee this happening as scum as a defense

p-edit: @Dan

[pieguyn]

I prefer to go after a guilty then a neighbor

you're aware I'm not actually guilty right

[pieguyn]

This reminds me of Gundam Seed mafia where i had a neighbor and i treated him like a Mason in thread (and hinted as such), but got paranoid later and decided to claim neighbors instead (in the end we were both town anyway)

that game

[pieguyn]

@Curiosity:

Give me the reason you were townreading me yesterday.

Give me the reason you are scumreading me today.

the first question seems very unnatural given you're asking it to a claimed mason. what were you trying to gain with that question?

[pieguyn]

lol.

TO clarify Curiousity and Pie are Masons?

yes

yo Sakura, what do you think about Ank? I'm really conflicted on the read I'm getting from him and I'm stuck at university for a while so I wanna compare notes.

(also, I am somewhat disappointed you thought I was scum earlier ;w; just out of curiosity, why?)

[pieguyn]

~if~ Jingle is scum, I think it implies NPIAU and Om town; his interactions with me right after I claimed would have been coming from an angle of redirecting my attention onto the town on my wagon (aka NPIAU and Om). I don't particularly think either of those posts were scum motivated, but meh

btw, just out of curiosity, why did you think I was scum this whole game?

[pieguyn]

also @Sakura: haaaaalp

yo Sakura, what do you think about Ank? I'm really conflicted on the read I'm getting from him and I'm stuck at university for a while so I wanna compare notes.

[pieguyn]

Haj is still on my scumlist but he's been lurking. How the hell am I supposed to gauge any useful info with him not even here?

er

you say this, but when we wagon Saki for being a giant lurkfuck you try to stop it. why?

[pieguyn]

can someone talk to me about NPIAU? I'm really unsure on like all of my reads. there's a bunch of things I both liked and disliked about him.

-bee is newb alright lol. Not too confident town or scum but he got some weird reasoning though that doesnt look coming from town

this came across ridiculously wishy washy

Holy shite, are you scum?

I didn't like this, since it read as typical scum deciding whether they needed to jump on the mislynch wagon of the day (Kagami) or continue WK'ing her; it came at a point where the wagon could have gone either way.

Because that feels like a scum-motivated wagon, probably to direct attention away from Scum-beeboy, and scums don't need reason

What's that? Easy vote? Jingle's bs case? Trying to scumhunt? Nah

If you're not able to point out a damning case, just admit it plz. You're the one pretending.

Om is a gut town I did not mention yes. Don't really know who Ank is

I feel like the people on Kagami's wagon is pushing like mad fuck for her lynch and condemning anyone who thought otherwise as her scumbuddy. Is that sketchy enough?

@Pie:
Not really. I feel that he's probing the game and his voting is consistent
Both. Mono, Wisdom and Mollie prolly misguided. Jingle and someone from the back end may be scum

I didn't like this either. he first called the Kagami wagon scum driven, and then flip flopped to calling it town driven. moreover, his reason for the wagon being misguided-town driven was people pushing like mad fuck for her lynch while not actually having a damning case, when he was previously using "scum don't need reason" as a reason for it being scum driven, which is basically the same reason. the scum motivation here would be that he's trying to WK Kagami and inventing whatever reasoning he can for it.

---

meanwhile, the main thing I liked about him is that the reasoning for his reads, when he laid it out, has actually been pretty solid and observant in a way that makes me think he is legitimately trying to game solve. the post about haj (2513) was actually the post of his I liked the most in this game (he did get the first part wrong but the rest made a lot of sense). I also liked the way he backed up his beeboy read (end of 1848) when he was asked about it, I can see why he would find those posts scummy and I buy that he believes it.

so yeah. idk where I'm even at here

[pieguyn]

yaaaaaay

it's more a call to help towards everyone in general, since I'm unsure atm

[pieguyn]

it's not particularly hard to find haj or beeboy scummy or find individual, disjointed scummy posts of theirs

the thing was the beeboy read he had wasn't exactly disjointed. all the posts he brought up basically fit in from the POV of self aware scum.

although now that I think about it, self-awareness is more of a newb tell than a scum tell, and he outright admitted beeboy was a newb, so I see your point here

the haj reasoning I felt was just a good thing to pick up on and I found myself agreeing with it to some extent - I didn't like the way haj had basically shut down and stopped doing anything throughout the second half or so of D1 either, and it would make sense from scum knowing the mislynch was going to go through no matter what.

I take it you agree with the things I didn't like?

[pieguyn]

jingle was a scumread all along apparently because jingle didn't give reasons on kagami, i guess? but, other than that, what's the thrust of this? i don't know.

agree with this

he has an unexplained scumread on Jingle and then ends up voting him right at the points where it looks like he'll get wagoned, while still not explaining it. seems legit

[pieguyn]

>the over-reactive saki whiteknighting
>the whole "your not voting me" argument, which is stupid and serves only as a psych-out

I don't ~really~ have a problem with his explanation for defending Saki. I agree the 2nd thing is stupid, but I've incorrectly pushed a bunch of ppl in the past for that when it turns out they just somehow think it's a valid argument.

you think NPIAU is scum with haj?

[pieguyn]

I'm not exactly sure what motivation he'd have for specifically WK'ing Saki; the way I'm looking at it, if he is scum here, he probably would have reacted the same way to it as town.

however, at this point, I feel better about him being scum anyway. I also think it would imply haj-town

[pieguyn]

i think scum are more likely to have a big stick up their ass over nothing

could potentially see this

what did you find to be awful about his reads list?

[pieguyn]

Ok i'm around.
My Ankamius read has been going on and off, first i felt like he was just being inactive and throwing potshots, but now it feels like he's been contributing more, I still don't see what reason he could've had for defending Kagami yesterday, could be because he knew Kagami was town because i don't remember him ever playing with Kagami.

neither do I

I remembered liking a lot of the other things he did D1 though. and I liked his D2 play quite a bit too. which of his contributions did you like?

Hey pie do you think this is the same Saki as Tit for Tat, or is it more like the Saki from Ikaruga?
Thing with Saki is that if i remember correctly in Ikaruga he hasn't voted a single thing since game start, and hasn't posted any content, which saves him from possible VCAs and could be because he doesn't want to be involved in anything (like scum).

Also im totes gonna be a revel and post from my main until Nacho decides to come and post

I wasn't in Ikaruga so I can't particularly say anything about that. I remember Saki in Tit for Tat actually doing shit. I don't like the fact he's literally doing fuck all and pdodging every single post in this game, as opposed to dropping off any thoughts at all while he was actually here. that kind of lurking is generally more likely to come from scum ime, but idk if he would do that as town too.

speaking of that, do you still have Gaiden as town? I thought I remembered his scum play being essentially the same thing (lurking and doing absolutely nothing), but idk

also I wish I was at home to change my avatar

[pieguyn]

like iirc Saki was a giant lurkfuck in the first GIF touhou game too. I need to go back and check that again

[pieguyn]

I gave him a summary of what had happened in D1 and then he did nothing with it and proceeded to continue to do nothing.

I can see this. looking at his posts from the first GIF touhou game, he only had 11 posts on D1, but you can tell he was at least trying to poke around and accomplish shit in the game.

inb4 NPIAU x Saki team and that's why he randomly defended him for no reason

p-edit: @Anti: the thing is town who lurk at least try to do shit during their limited time in the game thread. however, in my experience, when scum lurk, they do absolutely nothing and it ends up looking a lot like what Saki is doing here. I agree about them being POE'd at the end, but I have way too many town reads so I wanna at least consider it for the time being.

[pieguyn]

what did you like about 2624/2625? that's one of the things I explicitly disliked

and that wasn't really a serious suggestion although I am considering the possibility

[pieguyn]

mono and om's places on here are pretty undeserved

my meteoric fall in the reads list is pretty fucking lolz

beast's place in the list is a joke, as is Dan's

Sakura is actually p town (although usually I can 100% townread her, which I haven't been able to do in this game, so I'm nowhere near writing her off like I usually do). your meteoric fall in the reads list is consistent, but his reason for it in retrospect was fucking rofl

and I do agree about Om and Dan. speaking of Dan, have you liked anything he's done this game?

[pieguyn]

Remember when i said earlier about the wagon on you suddenly raising when I voted you?
Something like that, and I have the feeling that Ankamius had the same gut feeling about the wagon.

er, wasn't this also what he thought about Kagami? he mentioned he didn't like the speed of the wagon and the general sentiment towards Kagami being not town.

[pieguyn]

The Kagami wagon didnt reaise nearly as fast as yours?
Also Kagami didnt have someone yelling "Guilty" and trying to rolefish Curiosity >_>

I'm not sure I get your point here. at this point he's either scum WK'ing both of us or he figured out both of us were town. he can't scum-WK Kagami while being town figuring out I'm town.

then again I'm tired as hell right now so I might be misinterpreting this

what did you think of 2855?

[pieguyn]

also jesus fuck this exchange would look amazing if I had my new avatar with me

[pieguyn]

Is there anything else you want to ask me before i go take a nap?

nah I'm good for now. I'm tired as shit and can hardly think anymore anyway @_@

[pieguyn]

pagetop

[pieguyn]

Before I do anything else, why is AD being wagoned?

his play this entire game has been essentially coasting

he played a really safe D1, there weren't really any hard stances or anything controversial anywhere in his ISO, there was a lot of filler that served no real purpose other than to look town. D2 was more of the same till he got called out for not actually being a mason and now that that's over he's starting to do it again.

I'm still taking the mason gambit as a point against him although it's not exactly very strong. in ISO, 922 also read as buddying.

[pieguyn]

also I don't particularly think Saki is scum

idek anymore

[pieguyn]

anything controversial

well, I guess strictly speaking, the WK'ing Kagami could be seen as controversial, but that's the most controversial thing there and it still makes a lot of sense to do from a scum POV, so yeah

[pieguyn]

look harder

[pieguyn]

Here's my problem with this case: This is almost exactly what happened in LoL Mafia... where he was town.

He was significantly townread very early on in D1, but he basically just started coasting and got scumread pretty fast for not being useful for multiple day phases until he was flashlynched at deadline on Day 3. He was more useful there than now, but this game is also a fuckton harder to follow too, so I don't see that as very telling.

I wish Nacho was here right now.

you are saying the way he played there was the same as here?

cos I'm taking a look through his ISO from that game and I can already see a huge difference. it's basically night and day actually. in that game you can tell he was taking stances and trying to accomplish shit in the game, as opposed to his ISO here which is mostly filler and doesn't seem to be aimed at accomplishing anything. I don't ~really~ want to get caught up in meta, but at the very least I don't particularly think this is good evidence against him being scum.

[pieguyn]

so MS how'd you like index?

[pieguyn]

That game was infinitely more readable and easy to follow, since the main things that were preventing people from being able to read anything were shitfest 1v1 arguments and wallposting. Getting a grasp on the game based on what was going on at the time was easy and a very significant amount of his contributions were based on that. It's a lot harder to do that here when we have a lot of instant messaging conversations in forum form, so having less concrete stances and more just responding to whatever's trending at that exact moment is more plausible.

this would be fine if anything he contributed actually added anything to the game whatsoever.

look at what he did this game day:

-calling attention to haj having a soft guilty
-2563. I don't even know how what he's asking about would tell him anything about the alignments of either player
-more calling attention to haj having a soft guilty
-asking me for a full claim
-2966 defending NPIAU
-wondering when haj gets back

with all of his posts, I find myself asking what he's trying to actually get done and accomplish in this game, and I come up with fuck all. the dynamic of the game does not change the fact that you should be expected to do things that actually accomplish shit.

[pieguyn]

btw

@Ank: D1 you said Kagami was town and her points against me made a lot of sense. how did you go from there to WK'ing the shit out of me D2? it seems very unnatural to do that when you had previously said something that implied you thought I could be scum.

[pieguyn]

I thought dan did that every game

I don't ~really~ want to get caught up in meta

i love you

what is the thought process here, btw? you're essentially saying you don't want to get caught up in meta, but then claiming Dan lurks every game.

[pieguyn]

yo MS how'd you like index

[pieguyn]

the first episode of to aru kagaku no railgun already had some NC16 rated stuff, lol

i am sad to say that i cant get it out of my head

you're ~sad~ to say you can't get it out of your head? just accept it. and if you need an excuse, you can't properly comprehend the relationships between the characters without it =w=

I generally liked railgun more than index, although I obviously liked index a lot already. fair warning, the second half of index S2 gets kind of boring at the end. and yes, index is cute :3

[pieguyn]

That would be equally bad, as he's also town

~Wis

why do you think Dan is town anyway

[pieguyn]

holy fucking shit I never even thought about that

owo

[pieguyn]

is it sad that I never looked at it that way? I feel like at some point or another, I should have.

[pieguyn]

there's one in railgun too

she's not exactly invisible, but is very similar