X-Men: Age of Apocalypse (Game Over)

[SnowStorm]

Venmar, Speaker for the Dead, Macaronis and Cheese, Majiffy and I are the X-Men.

[SnowStorm]

scum venmar would 100% have known about hoods by now.

Scum or not, anyone who reads what the mod posts would have known about the hoods by the start of the game. To believe he's town we have to believe he did not read what was posted 2 posts before his:

If you weren't already aware, the link to your neighborhood PT can be found next to the "affiliation" line of your role PM. Sorry for any potential confusion not knowing this may have caused.

[SnowStorm]

So... umm, thoughts: I have a town read on Ika and a weaker town read on RubikAshtray. I like Ika's posts in general and his attittude, idk if he acts like this as scum but he's looking pretty town to me. As for Rubik, I liked the "overwhelmed" comment, it's a feeling I relate to and which I find less likely to come from scum.

I also feel good about my fellow X-Men, well, not "good"-good, but more like "not bad"-good. Our hood is peaceful and clean with a pleasant atmosphere. If there's scum in there they're wearing glorious amounts of townie deodorant.

As for Titus and Ven, right now, I'm more inclined to think they're both town.

I have no idea who I want to lynch. :end umm, thoughts.

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, let's work backwards then.

Make a list of your total townreads.

Post a list of everyone else and your thoughts on them.

Those were my town reads. I don't feel comfortable with calling anyone else town, right now, or scum for that matter.

[SnowStorm]

Yeah but that's the point of the collective. You put a thought, people show why it's right or wrong. We move forward.

Well, that was my share for today. It's your turn now.

You can add Speaker for the Dead to my Town reads, I liked that wall.

If there's scum in there they're wearing glorious amounts of townie deodorant.

What do you think of Jiffy pushing eek for saying that Venmar RVS wasn't really RVS and Titus parroting that and jiffy ignoring that. You believe he just missed that?

I haven't given

any

much thought to that. I'm not even sure what you're talking about. Jifffy's eek push, I get, now that last part...

[SnowStorm]

You're "lucky" (really doubting that "randomness")

here eek is saying that Venmars vote wasn't random

C) That his random vote accidently hit the most powerful hood in the game.

this is also saying that Venmar's vote wasn't random.

am I reading something wrong?

I see. I don't really have any problem with that. Those are two different situations. Even though they both had the same argument, it was presented differently. According to Jiffy, Eel slipped the argument to buddy bork, while in Titus' case the argument fits naturally with her thought process and push on Ven.

I'm out now.

[SnowStorm]

other than snowstorm,

those scum reads blow

I agree.

I'm liking Brian Skies. He can be town.

[SnowStorm]

other than snowstorm,

those scum reads blow

I agree.

I'm liking Brian Skies. He can be town.

Why are you agreeing with my scumread on you Snowstorm? What are better scumreads in each neighborhood?

I'm agreeing with Nero that your scumreads blow (including mine, that's why I used the strikethrough on "other than SnowStorm"...). The only scum read of yours I could agree with would be Eek's but even that would be a pretty weak one. - and I kinda like the way he reacted to the prospect of being lynched.

As for scum reads, better or worse, I have none yet.

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, you think all my scumreads suck? Why do they suck?

Who are your townreads?

Let's see if we can talk on your nulls.

Your scum reads:
Eek - addressed in previous post;
Rubik - previously addressed town read;
Clusk - null. Not enough content to get a good read on.
Nero Cain - Nero being one of the few players in this game I've played with before, I think his behavior this game is similar with his town behavior in the game I played with him. While I don't think that's enough to give him a town read, it's enough to keep him out of my scum reads for now; besides, there has been nothing alarming in his posts content-wise.
Snowstorm - that's me.
Venmar - Already addressed. I'm still inclined to believe you're both town for now.

My town reads are scattered through my posts, they are:
Ika;
RubikAshtray;
Speaker of the Dead;
Ven;
Titus;
Brian Skyes.

We can't talk nulls, not until I give an official read on them.

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, you think all my scumreads suck? Why do they suck?

Who are your townreads?

Let's see if we can talk on your nulls.

Btw, regarding your scumreads, are you effectively scum reading all of them or are they just the players you'd pick to lynch out of their respective hoods?

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, is there more to Rubik than overwhelmed? Also, let's talk about SKOT.

Overall I get a positive vibe from his posts (Rubik). I have nothing to talk about SKOT.

[SnowStorm]

[I started typing this 10 pages ago, so there's a chance this post will seem a little time-displaced ]

Of the possible lynch candidates, from the X-ternals hood I think Eek would indeed be the best choice, given the objectives and info. I have town reads on both Titus and Brian and I feel good in general about Feu and bork. As for the Outcasts, I have a town read on Rubik and a positive impression on Rogue, Pere is absent and that leaves Toogeloo and Cloud9.

After going through Toogeloo's ISO, I don't think I'd mind his lynch. I can't really tell what it is but there's something about him that makes me lean scum, I think it's the tone of his posts and his approach. The spoiler wall feels odd, as if he's trying to fit in. Then there's this post:

mollie, we are considering a "pl" to achieve a objective...

Are we even playing Mafia anymore? If we policy lynch, we are putting all our faith in power roles winning the game for us and relying very little on our abilities to hunt scum.

By conceding a PL, all we've done is state that no one gives a flying fuck to figure out scum, scum are more than welcome to jump aboard without reason, and we'll just try to let our Night Actions give us direction down the road.

Also if this posting rate continues at this speed tomorrow I will have to slow down my posting rate cause I will have to check all the shit on the computer.

This is part of the reason I stopped playing big games. Starting on a Saturday morning hurts as well. Weekends are my worst times to get involved in Mafia.

I stopped reading at page 20.

Vote: My Milked Eek

You'd better lynch Titus tomorrow.

Seriously? Is this a roll over and die post, or an appeal to emotion? I didn't want your lynch today, but your attitude towards being lynched feels so numb, so you're either town trying to do what you (stupidly) think is the right thing to do even though there is plenty of time still to change opinion, or you are making a shoulder shrug post hoping that it appeals to people that you are doing what I just formerly posted.

Where's your fight?

The first and second paragraphs verge on those "look at me, I'm town" kind of posts. Then I don't like his reaction to Eek's self-vote. It's like he's trying to turn something that actually looks good into something bad. And the wording "I didn't want to lynch you today but... this makes me want to lynch you". He doesn't say exactly that but it is implied that he changed his mind about not wanting to lynch him and that it was caused by Eek's reaction to his possible lynch.

-----
Cloud Nine seems worse than I remembered. First of all, they have an overly aggressive tone, which I don't really like. I also don't like how he went against SKOT, he accuses him of being either scum or a dumbass, but I can't tell where the line between those two is. I mean, he makes that differentiation but he seems to be pushing stupidity and bad play as a scum tell.

I got two scum reads now. Yay!

[SnowStorm]

What the hell is going on?

[SnowStorm]

I had been asked about SKOT, so i just ISO'ed him. I don't think he looks particularly scummy. His vote in the first post sucks, but I don't feel it had scum intentions behind it. Besides that there isn't much that can be talked about...

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, were you a fringe fan?

Yes, though I still haven't watched the last half of the last season.

[SnowStorm]

The lynchpool is composed by the following players:

borkjerfkin
feu et vol
titus
brian skies
my milked eek
cloud nine
toogeloo
rogue
rubikashtray
peregrinev

I agree with this. We should at the very least try to start working on objectives.

In your first post, you agree with Rubik that we should start working on the objectives and you develop a scum read on Cloud 9.

Now you come back, say "fuck the objectives" and vote two players from the two previously unvoted hoods, but what for? If all you wanted was to push for Cloud, you could do so and you'd be trading objective #1 for a better chance to hit scum. But by doing what you just did, the only thing you accomplished was ruining objective #5 for two hoods in exchange of nothing.

So wtf went through your head to make you change your mind like that and fuck it up like that?

pedit: You were not forced to examine only that half of the playerbase. You agreed with it!

[SnowStorm]

Would scum Loo believe he could just do what he did and get away with it? It was a really bold move.

[SnowStorm]

What could justify the risk he's taking? Maybe Eek or Titus being scum? It would still be a bold move and it would only switch attentions from one of his partners to him. So, I think he'd only do this if they really didn't want us to get one of the abilities... The more I think about this the harder I find it to believe that Loo's actions were scum motivated.

VOTE: Cloud Nine.

[SnowStorm]

The gamestate in and of itself has allowed people to coast and just discuss abilities. It's near impossible to develop reads on anyone, especially those that were in the two Neighborhoods that weren't going to get voted on. You guys essentially gave everyone in those hoods a free pass to agree, disagree, go absent, etc.

I've been sitting here sifting through isos and most all of them are just discussion about setup and how best to get abilities. Hell, most of the lynch discussions have been revolving around Policy Lynching instead of picking scum. Even Eek's wagon was largely considered a Policy Lynch.

Now that Sonic/Mastina are free to be voted, you should be happy Nero. You've been harping about them being scum all game day.

The only think that bothers me with you is that you had no problem with the gamestate when you first posted. You had no problem with focusing only in half of the players and working towards fulfilling the objectives. So this change of mind comes of as unnatural.

[SnowStorm]

the harder I find it to believe that Loo's actions were scum motivated.

they sure as hell weren't town motivated.

It was apparently self-motivated as he put himself and his interests above town's.

How do you explain a scum motivation?

[SnowStorm]

bork, you're okay. I appreciated that someone else would actually try to create some town unity.

But, sadly, the playerbase nowadays is two headstrong. So I'm a top scumread now for planning, trying to convince people to follow plans, getting angry and players for ignoring me, and being absent for twelve hours.

Argh.

"It's not me, it's them"? That's your excuse for the scumreads on you?

[SnowStorm]

I don't think judging players by their flavor claims is a valid way to scumhunt.

[SnowStorm]

Well, no, but your flavor claim is certainly the weakest, especially considering Nightcrawler is also a leader of a group that doesn't exist in this game (X-Calibre).

To be fair, with twenty players in the game, we can't all be Jean Greys and Magnetos (Magnetoes?).

[SnowStorm]

Nero, we were focusing on one neighborhood. Neighborhoods are majority town. Half the game didn't even care. He reinvigorated interest in the game.

nope, other then nerfing town objectives and

giving scum a wider mislynch pool

, [...]

Why do you keep saying that? We don't know how scum is divided among the hoods, but if we assume it is balanced (we have no way to know if it isn't), then the chances to mislynch increased with the chances to lynch scum, thus staying the same. So it's not like by expanding the lynch pool he was increasing our chance to mislynch.

[SnowStorm]

What's the deal with the votes on me? Like where the hell did that came from?

pedit: Speaker, Jean Grey is a character in the AoA universe.

[SnowStorm]

Quick version of my scum read on Titus will do long version later.

Titus is not pushing things well and is constantly just screaming I am Town listen to me. Not to mention their push on Venmar makes no sense what so ever to me. Lastly and majorly is their push on Marquis. They straight up refuse to listen to any sort of logic about why Marquis wouldn't troll. Trolling is normally anti-town imo but here it would be equivalent to out right just disrupting any of the town people from getting anything done especially towards the objectives. I have also only seen Marquis troll when in the Doduo hydra.(not sure what Meta Titus brought up earlier but I didn't look at it because it said Newbie and I discredit all Newbie games as Meta anything because Newbie games have a completely different feel and dynamic about them than any other games on the site) Then there is the fact that the game started out of thread in the neighborhoods so there was already a serious feel to it. Trolling would have just been asinine.

Titus is tunneling our slot but doesn't seem to mention us for people they want lynched for the day. They always mention Eek and Venmar. Not the people who they are screaming from high heavens is scum. When it comes to us they say: "When I flip town they will be obvious scum." If they were so convinced we are scum why not vote us?

Actually I am content with this post but if you want more let me know.

-Beast

You failed to explain how those points point towards her being scum. All I see is a big post explaining how Titus is not having an optimal town play.

"Titus is not pushing things well" - What does that mean? How is that a scum tell?
"is constantly just screaming I am Town listen to me" - Again, how is this a scum tell?
"their push on Venmar makes no sense what so ever" - Since when is making no sense a sign of scum?
What's all that about trolling?
And that last paragraph, what? You're arguing that Titus tunneling on you but not being convinced/not voting you is a scum tell? Why would she do that as scum? I mean, why would she tunnel on you as scum if she had no intention to mislynch you?

[SnowStorm]

Nero, we were focusing on one neighborhood. Neighborhoods are majority town. Half the game didn't even care. He reinvigorated interest in the game.

nope, other then nerfing town objectives and

giving scum a wider mislynch pool

, [...]

Why do you keep saying that? We don't know how scum is divided among the hoods, but if we assume it is balanced (we have no way to know if it isn't), then the chances to mislynch increased with the chances to lynch scum, thus staying the same. So it's not like by expanding the lynch pool he was increasing our chance to mislynch.

'cause its very likely to be true? Unless scum are bunched up in my hood and some other hood then Toog nerfing the objective of two hoods and opening up the lynch pool seems like it would only help scum.

Well, we don't know that and I think it's a little to early to be assuming certain hoods have more scum in them than others...

do you really think macandcheese are town?

I'm not really sure regarding them

I wouldn't kick and scream against a wagon on them, but I want to pursue Snowstorm.

I don't like how he automatically jumped to the defensive with just a few votes on him

...What?

[SnowStorm]

Titus isn't helping town at all. She's either scum with bad logic or town with bad logic that's cluttering up this thread so I say utility lynch her.

But Toog/ULF/SOD are all really scummy too. and Rouge is p scummy me thinks but that could just be NS being wrong as shit.

So lets talk about Toog/speaker and ULF. What are your reads there?

Titus is town. Loo is town. Rogue is TBD, so is ULF.

As for Speaker, I was starting to really like them up until they started their anti-Aronis campaign out of nowhere. I'm still not sure what to make of it.

[SnowStorm]

What's the deal with the votes on me? Like where the hell did that came from?

pedit-

lol, trying to call me scum

I've got more town in my pinky toe than you have in your entire body

Are you under the influence of hallucinogenics? I'm just asking, why did those two players suddenly decide to waste their votes and time on me?

[SnowStorm]

1. Titus seems to believe as town they are a godsend. If this were to be true then their logic would be easy to follow. It is not easy to follow here. They find the littlest things and just harp on the relentlessly. This is a scum tell because scum have to do everything they can to get a mislynch and they have to find the littlest things to push them with.

2. This is a scum tell because most of their posts are just that. Screaming that they are town and should be listened too. It doesn't come off as genuine town frustration but scum frustration that they can't get a single person to listen to the convuluted reasons to scum-read people. They also can't back down though because that would be a scum claim because apparently Town Titus tunnels people to death.

3.There should at least be some sort of followable logic in their push on Venmar but I don't see it. I classify their push their just like the push on Marquis based on nothing but tells that aren't real.

4. Titus thinks that town Marquis should troll in every game or else they are scum. They don't care the situation or the circumstances they just want Marquis to troll.

5. Why would town scream and shout about how scum I am but yet not vote me? It is Titus being able to later come back to once again push my mislynch. They know they won't get it today so they have to reserve it for later. The tunneling part goes back to the fact that Town Titus apparently tunnels people so Titus has to continue to tunnel me or else they would no longer look town to people, in their own eyes.

-Beast

P-edit:

How is titus town?

Ok, so that's all mostly based on Titus meta and your perceptions of what scum do and don't do, which seem very generalized. For example, I don't agree that a town push has to make some logic. I don't think scum do everything they can to get a mislynch. And they don't save mislynches for later when they're more likely to get lynched first.

I think you're doing what you're describing in point 4. (Well, not exactly that, but the same principle). You're tunneling on her based on your Titus and scum meta and you're not putting any effort to contextualize it to the situation of this particular game and player. You're forcing it all into a scum read.

Titus is town because I just don't see that play coming from scum. Sure she says a lot of crap and doesn't know when to stop, but I get a genuine town feeling from her posts. I also think that she wouldn't be such a big distraction if she weren't and that the quality of her posts would be better if people would stop pushing crap on her too.

[SnowStorm]

As for Speaker, I was starting to really like them up until they started their anti-Aronis campaign out of nowhere. I'm still not sure what to make of it.

it didn't really come out of nowhere I mean you have access to the qt and this thread so

You went all anti-Aronis once you figured he was playing and it was all of a sudden. Not knowing the whole story, it was as if it came out of nowhere to me. It was a sudden shift in your game that I can't justify.

[SnowStorm]

What's the deal with the votes on me? Like where the hell did that came from?

pedit-

lol, trying to call me scum

I've got more town in my pinky toe than you have in your entire body

Are you under the influence of hallucinogenics? I'm just asking, why did those two players suddenly decide to waste their votes and time on me?

Sometimes you have to vote a player to get a read. Their both town and working together. Sometimes you have to trust them to get to the right conclusion. Don't antagonize unnecessarily. I only use it when really overtly frustrated. A misunderstood wagon is insufficient.

They started it.

[SnowStorm]

Me and majiffy don't agree on a scumread and neither of us minds if snowstorm flips

I can't decide between and so I'll just

[SnowStorm]

Oh wait it was a fake dayvig?

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN............ I was really hoping to be lazy now in dead chat

It looked as real as yours.

[SnowStorm]

How come Cloud Nine only has 2 votes?

[SnowStorm]

Not only has Toog pretty much done nothing in that span to warrant the hard townread (especially after 1121 which doesn't really jive with how sure he is that toog is town cause that should be a pretty legitimate concern), but I can't empathize with a hard townread of Toog AT ALL resulting from vote-all-the-neighborhoods-gate; once again, the possibility of setting the objectives back under the guise of 'scumhunting more' and 'putting a higher % of scum in the lynch pool' is still a pretty obvious potential scum motivation that people are just dismissing out of hand because ????

Especially because toog hasn't exactly come out and flexed a whole lot of scumhunting chops since he did that whole thing (he's made a few information relaying posts I guess). If toog came in and actually started scumhunting with a wide breadth as a result of his vote thing, that's when you can make the argument he's town for doing it.

It doesn't matter to me what Toog has done since the fuck up, it matters to me why he did it in the first place. The progression you quoted should show you my thought process, which in itself should tell you that I actually thought about it and how it affected my read on Loo instead of just adding it to my scum read on him.

Now can we get more votes on scum Cloud?

[SnowStorm]

Snow was really really wrong about Toog about how he wasn't giving scum a larger mislynch pool.

but if I say "well he's opening up a bigger lynch pool" and you say "well we don't know that there are more town in those other hoods." Isn't tat assuming that there is more scum in the two hoods that were being voted for? We know there are atleast 6 town in those other hoods so unless you want to argue that all 4 scum are in those two hoods then yea...it seems like there'd more town and thus opening us up to more possible mislynches.

I also thought he was p scummy early game when he said "I don't have scumreads on anyone in my hood" but that's when I was under the impression that this was more of a setup and not randomly distributed but even then, I guess it's still possible that scumstorm could that if he's the only one in his hood *shrugz* but I get the same feeling from him as I did in ny172 so yeah....

I still think there's much better d1 lynches in like Titus, Toog, maybe SKOT, I am SUPER surprised that cloud 9 isn't getting ran up.

I didn't follow up to that post because I don't understand the logic behind it and I still think you were making a wrong assumption. We don't know the distribution of scum between the hoods, so it is safer to assume that they're equally distributed and that the odds of lynching scum in between 10 players are the same as in 20. Yes, it is a bigger lynch pool, but it doesn't matter because the odds are the same.

[SnowStorm]

It doesn't matter to me what Toog has done since the fuck up, it matters to me why he did it in the first place.

I am in totes disagreement here. I think Toog scum could easily go "yeah, I did something with no town benefit and actually harmed the town but...I just wanted to shake things up." I equally dislike the fact that he was trying to get me to switch my focus from him/titus and talk about ULF (even though I have been despite him claiming that I haven't.) and then him not following up on it.

I don't have any Toog meta so idk, but I still think his actions were too risky for scum and not worth the trouble. The only scenario where I could see it being more worthy is if scum were more likely to get lynched before, which could mean Titus-Scum or Eek-scum and I'm town reading both of them.

It doesn't matter to me what Toog has done since the fuck up, it matters to me why he did it in the first place.

I'm just really surprised that you're just super-oversimplifying the obvious WIFOM aspect of what you're talking about in 1116-1120, especially where there are supplemental things like 1121 that should be murking up the read for you and no real evidence that 'why he did it in the first place' is actually a thing that he cares about.

As far as your own question about what is the scum motivation: you can't deny that what he did had a tangible anti-town component and by definition creates potential scum motivation, even if obviously can't be proven one way or the other.

Well, sure, I don't think his actions were straight town tells; like you say there's a WIFOM aspect to it that leaves some room for doubt, that in itself is enough for me to not want to lynch him. Besides I thought the town scenario was more likely, so for the sake of keeping it simple and narrowing down suspects, I'm calling him town.

[SnowStorm]

The bolded was my point. But of the two hoods that were originally being targeted, its not like everyone was lynchable. As bork said, its WIFOU but I think there's plenty of scum motivation to add to a pool of potential mislynches. Also, the part out not following up wasn't about you, it was about Toog who basically tried to get me to shift my focus onto UFL and then never followed up on that.

So you think there are more scum in those two hoods than in the other two? And/or that the scum there were more likely to get lynched?

[SnowStorm]

Am I the only one here who doesn't have anger management issues?

[SnowStorm]

IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER WHERE THE SCUM ARE!

We had a list of 10 people that we were going to lynch from, atleast 6 of those 10 were town. Toog voting for two hoods adds ATLEAST 6 more town and therefore increases the scum mislynch pool. Jesus fucking Christ, now I almost want to lynch you for being as dense as all fuck.

This doesn't seem like a wise decision, but I'm going to reply. SO. What if you see it from a different perspective? We had a list of 10 people that we were going to lynch from, at least 4 of those 10 were scum. Toog voting for two hoods adds at least 4 more scum and therefore increases the scum lynch pool. So, sure there are more town added to the mix of possible mislynches, but it's all in proportion with the scum added to the mix of possible successful lynches. SO the only way Toog's actions prejudice us is if there are more scum in those two first hoods, which we don't know.

[SnowStorm]

at least 4 of those 10 were scum. Toog voting for two hoods adds at least 4 more scum

bullshit. 8 scum in a 20 player game? oh fuck no.

SO the only way Toog's actions prejudice us is if there are more scum in those two first hoods, which we don't know.

nope, there's only like 4-5 scum in this game. He added ATLEAST 6 more town into the scum mislynch pool. Thanks to his actions they now have atleast 15-16 townies as where with the two hoods they only had anywhere from 6-10.

hey bork, snow flips scum? do we lynch toog or is this scum defending town?

vote:Snowstorm

...I was just picking it out from your numbers! 10-6=4... Math and balance are not my strong suit. ...And yet you decide to vote me for apparently suggesting 8 scum, when if I was scum I'd know exactly how much scum there are and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[SnowStorm]

This is actually offensive to my scum game. First bork suggests that I'd sheep Titus (I mean, of all people? Really? I'd pick the one with the less credibility?) Now you think scum me would just throw myself into your claws like this?

When did scum become so suicidal?

[SnowStorm]

wasn't this snow wagon stupid when I was the one who initially suggested it

Because I remember nero telling me my reads were shit and now he's joined the wagon I kicked off

If it is of any comfort to you, it still is a stupid wagon.

[SnowStorm]

...I was just picking it out from your numbers! 10-6=4... Math and balance are not my strong suit. ...And yet you decide to vote me for apparently suggesting 8 scum, when if I was scum I'd know exactly how much scum there are and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm voting you for being way dense here. It really doesn't matter how many scum are in each hood. Toog nerfing the other 2 hoods is adding to the scums mislynch pool period.[/quote]

Fine, whatever, you've proven your point, now go put your vote on scum.

[SnowStorm]

Fine, whatever, you've proven your point, now go put your vote on scum.

So help me lynch Titus

Titus is town. Pick someone else.

[SnowStorm]

Fine, whatever, you've proven your point, now go put your vote on scum.

So help me lynch Titus

Titus is town. Pick someone else.

I will take that as a scum claim.

VOTE: snow

And I'll take this as a dumb claim.

[SnowStorm]

@Snow and Titus-reads on UFL, SKOT, SOD and a short blurb why please.

Ugh, acronyms. UFL - Null, because I haven't seen anything from them that made me lean one way or the other. SKOT - Very weak town, because of their tone and because of Cloud's push on them. SOD - Weak town because I liked their posts until they started butting heads with Macaroni because of gluten allergy.

[SnowStorm]

Feu is town.

where i find scums (snow is a stong canidate) is merly by posts and what i see as scum many times. his "oh i now have scum reads" is a common newb scum thing they will say b/c they cant have any "real" scum reads (unless if they are bussing allies/distancing/ect)

Lol silly, I'm not a newb.

[SnowStorm]

Where's your attempt to interact with me, Jiffy? And since when did you decide to not give a damn about the PT? A couple of days back you seemed pretty interested in talking with us about the Eek vs. Titus thing and how "polarizing" it was.

[SnowStorm]

I've already said I'm tabling Eek/Titus for today, or are you not reading?

I don't interact with scumbutts.

Eww, you don't wipe?

[SnowStorm]

walk me through how he is not lynchbait material

Why do you think I'm lynchbait material?

[SnowStorm]

walk me through how he is not lynchbait material

Why do you think I'm lynchbait material?

cos you are?

ika thinks you are newbscum and from ika's perspective he thinks the game is easily solvable. it makes me lean town on ika but he is useless when it comes down to working with townreads or anything outside of his mindset. cos he simply won't.

Right.

[SnowStorm]

The wagon on Snowstorm is 100% town. I know scum generally like to keep 1 off the wagon when mislynching me... but he appears town.

Who is Snowstorm an alt of? I've never played with them.

I'm not an alt.

[SnowStorm]

Because I can see his thought process and his communication, he's been clear and I don't see his views coming from a scum perspective. Toog would be easy to scumread at this point, but Snow wouldn't do it. I'd be easy to scumread, he won't do it. Plus the reasons I already mentioned.

I don't see him being scum. Why is Snow scum?

Skating by, fence-sitting, no original thought, the usual suspects.

Nope. Nope. Nope. I'm going to stay calm and ignore the bullshit.

[SnowStorm]

That's all a bunch of

crap

subjective interpretation made to fit a fabricated scum read.

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: Majiffy.

[SnowStorm]

Now are you going to give your own reasons why I'm scum or are you just going to parrot Mollie's paranoia?

You voted me for no reason, sheeping Rogue. When you did give some reasons (just now), they were not alignment indicative. You're not justifying a vote or a scum read, you're just trying to make me look bad by accusing me of stuff like fencesitting and not giving original opinions and calling my posts and reactions bad. There's not a single instance where you appear to be trying to get a read on me.

By not giving reasons to suspect me or interacting with me you give me no way to defend myself and prove you wrong. Basically, I can't deny any of your accusations because there aren't any. And yet you're pushing for my lynch. This allows you to just keep pushing me because eventually those reasons will come. For example, saying my reaction to the votes on me was "bad", as if there was any good reaction. By voting me you expected me to react and no matter how I did it you could just call it bad; from them on it's a domino effect. You keep pushing crap on me as if you're owning this and I'll keep reacting and giving you more "reasons" to keep pushing me. It's the same thing that happened with Titus.

I'm used to this. As Speaker accurately noted, I am lynchbait and every game there's one smartass scumfuck that tries pulling this crap on me.

[SnowStorm]

Tell me why not. The ISO screams scum to me. I've already elaborated on a few reasons why.

And if you want something recent, look at how eagerly Snow decided to start conveniently scumreading me and using all of Mollie's arguments to do so.

See what I mean? Look how now you're falsely accusing me of scum reading you using someone else's arguments. This is bullshit and you know it. And nice touch with the "conveniently".

I wouldn't be too against wagoning noodles and moldy dairy products.

I think we're onto something good with SnowStorm. The entirety of reactions to the wagon has been discredit and flaccid OMGUS.

And now you pull the OMGUS card. Wow, that was unexpected. Keep going!

[SnowStorm]

Yeah after the last few pages I feel pretty good about a Titus lynch regardless of ika.

Of course you do, you're scum, lol.

[SnowStorm]

You have made exactly two comments on my play in the duration of your ISO. The first was agreeing with me in my push on Eek. The second was a direct parrot of something Mollie said earlier.

It's not bullshit. It's not a false accusation. It is empirical fact.

You're gonna have to show me that parroting because I'm pretty sure I haven't parroted anyone. I made no comments on your play, so what? I didn't have a set read on you. I got my scum read from your push on me. So what's your point?

[SnowStorm]

You have made exactly two comments on my play in the duration of your ISO. The first was agreeing with me in my push on Eek. The second was a direct parrot of something Mollie said earlier.

It's not bullshit. It's not a false accusation. It is empirical fact.

You're gonna have to show me that parroting because I'm pretty sure I haven't parroted anyone. I made no comments on your play, so what? I didn't have a set read on you.

I got my scum read from your push on me.

So what's your point?

... So OMGUS then? Cool! Glad we've settled that.

And you parroted Mollie here:

Where's your attempt to interact with me, Jiffy? And since when did you decide to not give a damn about the PT? A couple of days back you seemed pretty interested in talking with us about the Eek vs. Titus thing and how "polarizing" it was.

Conveniently right after Mollie came in storming about finding my scumbuddies.

Fuck OMGUS. I'm not going to just sit idly while I see scum blatantly throwing shit at me. Here's one more reason why you're scum, you're accusing me of OMGUS to discredit my scum read on you. Scum reading people who are scum reading me does not make my read invalid.

You're going to have to show me exactly which post I am parroting there, because I still don't see it.

[SnowStorm]

And I'm still waiting for your Eek-Titus post! Wednesday ends in less than 5 hours here.

[SnowStorm]

@Jiffy If that's parroting then I'm a duck.

I have elaborated on my read on you. I have told you why I suspect you in a very clear manner. And you just keep on painting it all black.

And now you're postponing your thoughts on that again. There's no reason for you to not have posted your thoughts yet. Know what? I don't think you had or have any actual thoughts on the subject. You were just throwing shit in our PT's walls to see if it would stick.

[SnowStorm]

@Jiffy If that's parroting then I'm a duck.

I have elaborated on my read on you. I have told you why I suspect you in a very clear manner. And you just keep on painting it all black.

Quote or it didn't happen. I'll wait.

And now you're postponing your thoughts on that again. There's no reason for you to not have posted your thoughts yet. Know what? I don't think you had or have any actual thoughts on the subject. You were just throwing shit in our PT's walls to see if it would stick.

There's actually a pretty good reason and I've already explained it thoroughly.

But again, that'd require you to actually read my posts.

I posted this an hour ago... and you tell me I don't read your posts?

Now are you going to give your own reasons why I'm scum or are you just going to parrot Mollie's paranoia?

You voted me for no reason, sheeping Rogue. When you did give some reasons (just now), they were not alignment indicative. You're not justifying a vote or a scum read, you're just trying to make me look bad by accusing me of stuff like fencesitting and not giving original opinions and calling my posts and reactions bad. There's not a single instance where you appear to be trying to get a read on me.

By not giving reasons to suspect me or interacting with me you give me no way to defend myself and prove you wrong. Basically, I can't deny any of your accusations because there aren't any. And yet you're pushing for my lynch. This allows you to just keep pushing me because eventually those reasons will come. For example, saying my reaction to the votes on me was "bad", as if there was any good reaction. By voting me you expected me to react and no matter how I did it you could just call it bad; from them on it's a domino effect. You keep pushing crap on me as if you're owning this and I'll keep reacting and giving you more "reasons" to keep pushing me. It's the same thing that happened with Titus.

I'm used to this. As Speaker accurately noted, I am lynchbait and every game there's one smartass scumfuck that tries pulling this crap on me.

Now you can quote those reasons you mention since I don't remember any and you have a much bigger ISO than I do.

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, do you have a response to the allegation that you've been parroting my reads for the most part but for Venmar?

Who alleged that? I haven't parroted anyone. I have a fully working brain to think for myself, and if I want to say something that has already been said by someone else I'll just say I agree.

[SnowStorm]

walk me through how he is not lynchbait material

Why do you think I'm lynchbait material?

cos you are?

ika thinks you are newbscum and from ika's perspective he thinks the game is easily solvable. it makes me lean town on ika but he is useless when it comes down to working with townreads or anything outside of his mindset. cos he simply won't.

Right.

I'm used to this. As Speaker accurately noted, I am lynchbait and every game there's one smartass scumfuck that tries pulling this crap on me.

"I'm not lynchbait material!"
"OH WAIT LOL SLIPPED MY MIND IM ALWAYS LYNCHBAIT THIS HAPPENS EVERY GAME GUYS LOL"

Stop twisting my words to fit your fucking ridiculous push on me. I NEVER said I wasn't lynchbait. And in no way does whatever it is that you're trying to prove with this posts make me scum!

I can't believe some people have town reads on you. You're obvscum as fuck.

[SnowStorm]

Go fuck yourself and die in the process.

[SnowStorm]

Wah scumbutt is mad cuz he's getting called out using his own obvious posts.

You pretty clearly implied you didn't think you were lynchbait by those first two posts. And then suddenly convenience! you are.

I pretty clearly made a question. You're the one seeing stuff that wasn't there.

[SnowStorm]

Wah scumbutt is mad cuz he's getting called out using his own obvious posts.

You pretty clearly implied you didn't think you were lynchbait by those first two posts. And then suddenly convenience! you are.

I pretty clearly made a question. You're the one seeing stuff that wasn't there.

You pretty clearly asked a question implying you disagreed.
You also clearly responded to the answer in a way that implied you disagreed.

Then suddenly you're agreeing.

I didn't imply anything. That was the point, I wanted her to answer me without knowing my real stance on the subject. Now why does this matter for anything?

[SnowStorm]

What the fuck are you talking about?!

[SnowStorm]

I'm done arguing with you. This is already enough to prove my domino effect theory.

[SnowStorm]

You're right. Mollie is my Jesus.

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: Snowstorm

I literally just posted where someone accused you of just following my vote, and it was a scumread no less. That question was so fucking easy to answer.

What??

[SnowStorm]

What about it?

[SnowStorm]

There's no way you're this dense and understood the townread on Toog.

NeroCain was accusing you of sheeping my reads... you've said Nuhnuhh I never parrot nor was I accused... what's your response to the allegation you parroted my townread on Toog?

I have no idea what you're trying to say with those quotes and I don't know where you're trying to get at or what you saw that made you do a 180 degree flip on your read of me.

I parroted nobody. Geez. Just because I have he same read as you doesn't mean I'm parroting or sheeping you.

[SnowStorm]

And I had already answered that.

[SnowStorm]

[SnowStorm]

...So, Titus, are you going to explain why you decided to vote town?

[SnowStorm]

...So, Titus, are you going to explain why you decided to vote town?

Snowstorm have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Objection! Leading on direct examination.

Seriously, I don't vote town even though it gets tempting at points.

You just did...

[SnowStorm]

snow thinks that I am his jesus and that makes my paranoia factor go haywire. but wtf.

I don't actually think that... I was just mocking Jiffy for thinking that I parrot everything mollie says. ...Which is really dumb considering I can't even tell your heads apart.

[SnowStorm]

Mollie's my Jesus! (This time I'm serious).

[SnowStorm]

muffin can you just say one last time clearly why you feel it is so necessary to impersonate mollie

fyi i'm in the neighborhood right now talkin about you behind your back

Obvconfscum

VOTE: Feu et Vol

Why is this obvscum?

[SnowStorm]

Titus still needs to be gone asap.

Yes because you, Venmar, Mollie, Feu and Snowstorm are the scumteam. Maybe there is one other.

Pffft, we'd totally own this.

[SnowStorm]

GROOTIFY: TITUS

[SnowStorm]

SKOT, why did you vote me?

[SnowStorm]

vote count mod

also a forwarnign if any of my scum reads reach l-1 i will hammer w/o warning (or just about anyone)

you have been warned.

Being chaotic just for the sake of it doesn't make you cool.

[SnowStorm]

SKOT, why did you vote me?

because I think Titus is town and you are the counter wagon.

...Is this for real?

[SnowStorm]

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine...

p@Mala

Snow is not as fuck town and honestly SKOT may be dumb as fuck but I don't see anything scum in the ISO.

This town has way too many "dumb as fuck" players. ...I THINK some of them might not be

that

dumb, knowwhatI'msayin'? Like you, for example, I don't think you're this dumb.

I hope I'm right, because it would be really sad for this community.

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: TITUS.

[SnowStorm]

Well you took a position I was town Titus, which is not inconsistent with calling me a vt. Now that you're forcing a scumread, I am calling you out.

As for Snowstorm, he's nothing more than a parrot

. I actually did it using your posts so I kinda figured you would remember that.

You're the one PARROTING Jiffy's shit!

Parroting is something I just do NOT do, ever. I'd rather spend the whole game quoting and agreeing with other people than rewriting their posts and presenting their thoughts as if they were mine. So enough with this parroting bullshit.

ENOUGH with this bullshit wagon! You are not going to fucking lynch me!

This nonsense has been going on for far too long and town is as braindead as ever, so I'm going to claim while we still have time.

I am JEAN GREY, my ability is EMPATHY -

If I am lynched, the next day phase will be skipped

. I'm a fucking BELOVED PRINCESS!

[SnowStorm]

Now, I want to lynch scum today and I think lynching Majiffy will accomplish that. No, I don't just "think", I'm actually pretty sure he's scum. I refuse to believe his game is coming from town, it just doesn't fit.

I'm not opposed to a Titus lynch either. I had a town read on her, but I'm not sure anymore. I thought I was able to follow her thought process, I thought I understood her. One of the reasons why was because she seemed to understand me; she seemed to have put some genuine effort into reading me and I thought she had reached a pretty accurate read. But she lost me when she turned it upside down for such dumb reasons. I don't understand how someone who could read me so accurately could suddenly change their mind with shit arguments like parroting and fences(h)itting or whatever. It makes no sense.

[SnowStorm]

You see what you want to see.

[SnowStorm]

I am JEAN GREY, my ability is EMPATHY - If I am lynched, the next day phase will be skipped. I'm a fucking BELOVED PRINCESS!

Here's my issues with the claim!

1) Your cursing looks fake. Like you're trying to convey anger but you don't actually believe yourself. The claim post looks really forced and I want to lynch you for it.

2) That's a really interesting claim. I share a similar sentiment to titus, but at the same time I don't know if I want to test it.

pedit-

I'm calling his bluff

The cursing isn't there to make the claim look more legit or angry. It's there to call attention and to show that it is important and serious information. I'm done playing and I'm ending the ridiculousness that is the wagon on me.

[SnowStorm]

So you're saying you did in fact place it in there to try and highlight important information rather than convey an emotion?

Yeah, not making it better.

Ugh, just stop it, I'm not scum. Move one!

[SnowStorm]

So you're saying you did in fact place it in there to try and highlight important information rather than convey an emotion?

Yeah, not making it better.

Ugh, just stop it, I'm not scum. Move one!

Just because other players aren't as risktaking as me, doesn't mean you get to think you're confcleared. If I had an actual dayvig, you'd be dead as a doornail.

Right, I should have been cleared much before the claim!

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, give me a case why you're town.

-I'm being attacked by scum, which I can tell by knowing the points made against me are false and are being presented as if they had any validity. It's all show and no substance.
-I've been making my own reads and I do so by thinking for myself and evaluating the people's motivations behind their words and actions. I'm not just randomly calling people town or scum for no reason.
-My own words and actions are made with my win condition in mind, which is to eliminate all threats to town, as per my role PM.

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, give me a case why you're town.

-I'm being attacked by scum, which I can tell by knowing the points made against me are false and are being presented as if they had any validity. It's all show and no substance.
-I've been making my own reads and I do so by thinking for myself and evaluating the people's motivations behind their words and actions. I'm not just randomly calling people town or scum for no reason.
-My own words and actions are made with my win condition in mind, which is to eliminate all threats to town, as per my role PM.

Every read you've had has literally been said by someone else for the same reasons. That's not "thinking for yourself".
The wagon on you has been townie.
The last is a self-vouch.

Prove it. There's always such a sureness in your posts, but I always get the feeling that you don't know what you're talking about. So go through each of my reads and quote the specific posts I'm "parroting".

DO IT! And also tell me how you can judge my reads without knowing whether they're right or wrong. Tell me how "paroting" other people's reads makes me scum, because even if you were right about it, I fail to see how it would be alignment telling.

As for the second point. Tell me how townie my wagon is.

[SnowStorm]

Toog --- Parrotted from me
Titus --- Parrotted from just about everyone

I can compare your reads to mine. If they match, you're right. If they don't you're wrong. That is unless you elaborate like Majiffy did.

Everyone who has ever voted you for a significant period of time, I have a townread on. Majiffy, Rogue, all of them all town.

That's not what I asked. I want you to read my previous post again and do what I asked.

[SnowStorm]

If you can't back up your accusations and explain them, they have no validity.

[SnowStorm]

If you can't back up your accusations and explain them, they have no validity.

nor do you? your reads are shit, i think you arent thinking for yourself, even if you are it doesnt mean you are town

I am so, but so tired of this shit. If you're town, which, unfortunately, I think you are, you do not deserve to win. Same with Titus, only that I'm not as sure of her towniness as I was before.

Idk about you, but I looked over Titus' wiki page and apparently she's played over 50 games. 50 GAMES. How can someone who's played that much still play like this! I've seen some really bad town play in the games I've played, mostly coming from new players, but even though I thought some of the, were extremely annoying and frustrating, it was nothing compared to this. You guys are straight up horrible!

You don't think logically. You don't even try. You don't listen to others. And it's not like you don't do that because you have some great intuition, because you don't; your play doesn't even show intuition, it just shows plain wrong logic. You simply don't know how to think. And you're both stubborn as hell and you can't admit when you're wrong. Worst of it, you act as if you were the best, as if all that you say is right and everything others say is wrong, no matter what they're saying.

I've been trying to get you think and see the things I'm seeing, but as I said earlier, you only see what you want to see. So all the energy I put into interacting with you is useless. I figure I'm just going to stop trying.

[SnowStorm]

Btw, I'm still up for a Majiffy lynch, which I'd still prefer over a Titus one. Anyone wants to make that a thing? Because even though getting rid of Titus would make the game much pleasant, I'm not so sure about her being scum. Majiffy on the other hand would be a sure hit.

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, ika doesn't play on logic. If you are town (which I doubt) ika is an asset because he doesn't try to play logically.

Also, I'm hardly straight up horrible. I'm one of the best endgame players there is. Just getting through the early game is the hardest part. Doubly so because scum want me dead by hook or by crook.

I also didn't want to see you as scum, but I was persuaded. It's hard to persuade town me of anything.

You can do ad hominem attacks but that doesn't make them true. I'm damn good as town because I've had scum vote park on my wagon for days and nothing.

This makes sense if the plan is to lynch me. Scum don't want the objectives, they push electing Eek. Then they push lynching me. If we suppose a nullslate on who is scum, you should look there in your neighborhood. Is there anyone who fits that bill?

I don't mind illogical players if they compensate their lack of logic with a good intuitive play, which ika is not showing. His play has just been mindless.

Well, this is not endgame, and you should not be relying on the town's ability to put up with you to survive till then.

You were persuaded because you let yourself be persuaded. Because you'd rather take what someone else is saying for right than see it for yourself, and worst is you stuck with it. You've been pushing me blindly.

Idk what the scum's plan is but if you're town they shouldn't care whether you get lynched or not because they win either way.

I don't understand that last question, but I'm pretty sure Majiffy is scum and he's in my hood so...

[SnowStorm]

Ah, wait, lemme check.

[SnowStorm]

Is there anyone in your neighborhood who was pushing to nominate Eek and then quickly began pushing my lynch?

Mac and Cheese were the first ones to suggest your sacrifice, pre-game.
Majiffy was the first to suggest an Eek lynch, after the game started. He was also the first to place his prediction vote on him.
Venmar predicts Eek, but says he'd prefer your lynch. Then says we should have predicted you.
Majiffy says the argument between you and Eek is polarizing and that it doesn't feel like T-vs-T. He doesn't explain his thoughts on this any further and later he starts pushing for my lynch.
Venmar keeps pushing you.
MAjjify says he's shelving you and Eek till tomorrow, waiting for an investigation.
Speaker replies saying both are town.
Majjify still thinks it wasn't T-vs-T.
Apparently he sees Eek scum over Titus town.

So, there wasn't really anyone doing what you described. Majiffy is still the scummiest, he's the one who keeps revolving around you and Eek, though he's now saving you both for later (well guess why? He's got another shiny town target for todays' lynch). He's the one who keeps pushing the idea that one of you is scum - which if you are both town and he gets his way will result in two mislynches. He was also fishing for our opinions on the subject - he didn't asked us what we thought, he planted his ideas and waited for us to reply. Nobody bit it though. We asked him to explain what he meant and he just postponed it till Wednesday, then to the next day phase.

[SnowStorm]

Yeah, sudden reversal on my being scum and a policy lynch 120 pages in. It makes the game "more pleasant" when townies go down without a fight. Well I'm going to fight. I'm frustrated to no end by your obviously bullshit claim and that all the other wagons on scum apparently topped out at three despite Feu and Mollie being obvious buddies. Venmar ain't getting lynched despite him playing solely to a scum wincon. Nero's pulling the same flip flop policy lynch got no other shit. ika is voting me because that's what he does every damn game.

My reversal is not nearly as sudden as yours. I don't think I have actually called you scum, I'm simply just not town reading you the way I was and I'm tired of you. And I'm not the only one.

See what I say about ika, that last sentence should tell you how bad he's playing. Voting out of habit is not logical, is not intuitive, it's brainless and it doesn't contribute to the town wincon.

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, give me a case why you're town.

-I'm being attacked by scum, which I can tell by knowing the points made against me are false and are being presented as if they had any validity. It's all show and no substance.

1. Does town never present "false" claims? Do all reads stemming from town have "substance"? Do you think all scum would stance themselves around you the same way? ie, do you think multiple scum chose you to push without substance in their reads.

-I've been making my own reads and I do so by thinking for myself and evaluating the people's motivations behind their words and actions. I'm not just randomly calling people town or scum for no reason.

2. Full reads list please. I'm talking full. I want precise reasons you feel certain ways about people.

-My own words and actions are made with my win condition in mind, which is to eliminate all threats to town, as per my role PM.

3. If anyone was playing without this (being a wincon) in their mind they would be evicted from the game. So.

1. Yes, town can present false claims. No, not all reads from town have substance. No, I don't think all scum would take the same stance. I don't think I'm being pushed by multiple scum (Though I haven't given much thought to this outside of Jiffy and possibly Titus). See, I don't think you're understanding (not even sure you're trying). I'm not saying I'm pushing for scum just because. When I said that I was mostly referring to Jiffy, because he was pushing me based on empty arguments and presenting them as if they were valid. I think Speaker has done a great job explaining why his arguments are so bad/empty, you can check those posts. Now, I can tell those arguments come from scum because Jiffy seems better than that, the way he's making the push denotes a much more experienced and smart player than the contents of the push. Those arguments are something I'd expect from some new player who learned some cool words and expressions in a previous game.

2.
Town
Speaker for the Dead - They're my Jesus.
My Milked Eek - I found them pretty towny at the start when they were up for the lynch.
borkjerfkin - I'm just going to trust everyone else and call him town. Also don't remember anything that could make me lean the other way.
Toogeloo - Still think he's more likely to be town from his objective fuck up.
RubikAshtray - I think he looked town when he was posting at the beginning of the game.
Venmar - Looked genuine.
Nero Cain - Weak town. I think his play still fits with the town play I experienced in the game we played together but I'm not ready to give a full town read on him, because I'm not familiar with his scum game and I don't want to take risks with this read.
Brian Skies - Weak town. Idk, I kinda liked his posts, but I'd be more comfortable if he posted more.
ika - Too bad to be scum? I also remember liking his unusual approach at the start.

Null
Clusk92 - not enough content.
Macaronis and Cheese - I have not reached a conclusive read on this slot and I haven't looked much into them. But I'm more leaning scum than town.
Rogue - Still haven't given much thought to this slot either. I'd say I'm leaning town.
Ultimate Life Form - Needs more content. I feel his posts have been too superficial. There's a lack of interest, engagment and thought. I'm leaning scum.
Sharpest-knife-on-tree - Dunno.
PeregrineV - As null as it gets.
Titus - I can't even...

Scum
Cloud Nine - Eh, I don't really like they're early content and they haven't done anything since then. Weak scum read, almost put it in the null pile.
Majiffy - Strong scum read, debated to death.

3. The fact that I haven't been evicted from the game should tell you something then.

[SnowStorm]

Also I want proof of your lynchbait claim

That is hard to prove and I don't know what will accomplish. Most of my complete games are off site and either unaccessible or unreadable, but you can have a look at the games I've completed here. NY 172 could be insightful. It is my most recent game (not counting my last one where I replaced into a hydra), and I was pushed by scum in a manner that is similar to the way Majiffy was pushing me. Nero, Peregrine and mastin played in this game.

Attention: If you are a vig and shoot anyone excluding Snowstorm tonight, a claim will be a scumclaim.

If I'm going to die by the hands of town I'd rather be lynched, that way you get the punishment for your sucky reads.

p-edit: i know that but what if we have no vig and its some fake claim? I mean heck, its an easy claim to coast as scum.

and as i already stated, he should of just claimed that right from start

I'm not familiar with this role. It's the first time I have it and the first time I'm seeing it in a game. I thought about claiming at the beginning but I thought it would be better to claim later, that way I could compare player stances before and after the claim. Like, I didn't expect scum to keep pushing for my lynch after it, as it would be seen as an obvious scum move, but I'd expect some town or another to keep pushing, like you did. Besides, claiming at the start is no fun.

[SnowStorm]

Care to explain how you somehow missed me in your reads list?

-Beast

It's past 5 am and I'm sleepy?

*Town
Feu - They seem genuine. For example, I liked their explanation for their scum read on Titus, which at first appeared to be just another one, but instead they showed to have put some real thought into it. I also don't remember anything that could made me lean scum on them; so they're town for now.

[SnowStorm]

If I'm going to die by the hands of town I'd rather be lynched, that way you get the punishment for your sucky reads.

My head is a mess right now. On one hand I want to lynch Jiffy and his buddies and win this game, but on the other hand... I just want to watch this town crash and burn, especially if Titus is part of it.

[SnowStorm]

You'll forgive me if I feel that your endorsement of the latter at a time when figuring your alignment is paramount is somewhat counterproductive if you're town?

I forgive you, but I also think you should have figured I'm town already.

[SnowStorm]

I thought you didn't want to lynch jiffy cos you were unsure?

I mean you did nothing to help us when majiffy tried to 1v1 us but you hopped on to titus like wildfire when it seemed convenient but he seems to be your top scumread.

what I fucking hate is that

I don't remember ever saying anything like that? I've been pushing for a Jiffy lynch since I got a scum read on him.

What did you want me to do? I left my vote on Jiffy for a long while and it never build up. I keep saying I prefer a Jiffy lynch to a Titus one and nobody says a thing about it. I changed my vote to Titus simply because nobody seemed interested in lynching Jiffy and of existing wagons I chose Titus. I've explained why I chose Titus and it was nothing like a convenient wild turn. And he's not my top scum read.

But you want to lynch Jiffy, lets do it.

VOTE: JIFFY

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, Jiffy ain't getting lynched.

He would be if more players voted him, because scum ain't bussing him unless they really have to, since his flip would make me conftown.

And I still can't believe that after all the shit that he pushed against me I am still more suspected than him. It's baffling. Do people not read the game or do they not think? Both maybe?

[SnowStorm]

Nope. People are reading. Jiffy's just town. Also, I take grave issues with you wanting a lynch on someone = conftown.

I am the only viable mislynch with the deadline on Monday. Get on me or get on Feu. It's one of us. Pick a side, town or scum. P.S. It's not too late to vote Feu for town cred.

Someone needs to explain to me how his push on me was town motivated and how it fits with Jiffy's town meta.

And I'm not going to vote Feu.

[SnowStorm]

If I was lying, scum-cheese would've probably not made that post...

[SnowStorm]

Because we're not going to move this game forward if we all just keep listening to ourselves.

[SnowStorm]

And because I think you're scum reading me only because you want to and you've reached a point where you're relying on game mechanics to show you my alignment when you could just put your two brains to work and try figuring it for yourself. That's lazy and stubborn and if you're town, that's bad town play.

[SnowStorm]

And because I think you're scum reading me only because you want to and you've reached a point where you're relying on game mechanics to show you my alignment when you could just put your two brains to work and try figuring it for yourself. That's lazy and stubborn and if you're town, that's bad town play.

^ @ Rogue

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: TITUS

[SnowStorm]

How come Titus is still alive? And why is Feu even up for the lynch?

[SnowStorm]

Do we really need to wait for Majiffy to hammer? I don't really care about getting that governor shot. And I don't really believe Titus is going to flip scum, so can we end this already?

[SnowStorm]

Ok. Wake me up when this is over.

[SnowStorm]

ETL, who are you? You included me in your list and you mention NY 172 but I don't remember you...

[SnowStorm]

ETL, who are you? You included me in your list and you mention NY 172 but I don't remember you...

I played under an alt.

That much I had guessed...

[SnowStorm]

snow, if you do a little digging, it is easy to figure out. It is, however, not relevant to this game. Can you please answer my initial post with your reads?

I just figured it! I'll get to it.

[SnowStorm]

I'd like the following people to give me 1) their rundown of major events of the day so far and 2) current, complete reads lists with a little explanation of their top 2 scum and top 2 town reads:

1) One of our objectives is to successfully predict the day's lynch, which had to be done on the first 24 hours. All 4 hoods predicted Eek to be the lynch or today. We didn't went through with it because he had a pretty town reaction. We decided to look into other players from hoods who had been already voted in RVS, which were 2, the Outcasts and the X-Ternals. (Full hood list here.) so that the other two hoods coudld still complete the 5th objective (not getting any votes). Then Toogeloo voted players in those two hoods, making it so that no hood would complete the 5th objective and that the lynch pool would be open to all players instead of just half. After that, a couple of players started pushing for my lynch, most notably Majiffy and Rogue. The votes started to pile up and I decided to claim. Meanwhile, there was shit flying in every direction. We reached the conclusion that lynching Titus was not only our best option, but also the only one, because no wagon has been able to compete with hers. She's also severely crippling us if she's town, which I find more likely than her being scum.

2) I'll give you an updated version of my last reads-post:

Town
Speaker for the Dead - They're my Jesus.

I agree with most of their reads and I don't see scum motivation behind their posts.

My Milked Eek - I found them pretty towny at the start when they were up for the lynch.
borkjerfkin - I'm just going to trust everyone else and call him town. Also don't remember anything that could make me lean the other way.

It's a pretty solid town read now. I like his approach to the game and the stances he's taken.

Toogeloo - Still think he's more likely to be town from his objective fuck up.
RubikAshtray - I think he looked town when he was posting at the beginning of the game.
Venmar - Looked genuine.
Nero Cain - Weak town. I think his play still fits with the town play I experienced in the game we played together but I'm not ready to give a full town read on him, because I'm not familiar with his scum game and I don't want to take risks with this read.
Brian Skies - Weak town. Idk, I kinda liked his posts, but I'd be more comfortable if he posted more.
ika - Too bad to be scum? I also remember liking his unusual approach at the start.
Feu - They seem genuine. For example, I liked their explanation for their scum read on Titus, which at first appeared to be just another one, but instead they showed to have put some real thought into it. I also don't remember anything that could made me lean scum on them; so they're town for now.

I should add, it's a weak town read.

Null
Clusk92 - not enough content.
Macaronis and Cheese - I have not reached a conclusive read on this slot and I haven't looked much into them. But I'm more leaning scum than town.
Rogue - Still haven't given much thought to this slot either. I'd say I'm leaning town.
Ultimate Life Form - Needs more content. I feel his posts have been too superficial. There's a lack of interest, engagment and thought. I'm leaning scum.
Sharpest-knife-on-tree - Dunno.
PeregrineV - As null as it gets.
Titus - I can't even...

As I said, I think she's more likely town than scum, but right now I just want her gone.

Scum
Cloud Nine - Eh, I don't really like they're early content and they haven't done anything since then. Weak scum read, almost put it in the null pile.
Majiffy - Strong scum read, debated to death.

This scum read is based on his scum read on me, which was based on nothing at all, but pushed with more fireworks than New Year's in Dubai.

[SnowStorm]

Hm, didn't expect MAjiffy and MnC to die. Cool.

I'd like to know how the prediction voting went in the other hoods too, and the thought process behind the picks.

AP, what's the name of your ability?

[SnowStorm]

ap why did you not vig the beloved princess?

cos that would have made the most sense if you were trying to prioritize your nk in a protown way.

your shot on mac&cheese still doesn't make sense if you read the game in its entirety and you were wanting to weed out people who were unlikely to get lynched.

Wouldn't that have been a better scum move, since it would be the expected behavior of a town vig? Killing me would have given him more town cred and would still accomplish getting a town player killed.

Unless he didn't want the towncred, because "multiball"... but idk, by claiming vig he's not exactly raising his chances of survival either, regardless of his alignment.

[SnowStorm]

Wow, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss Titus already.

[SnowStorm]

Fuck. SftD left this on our hood and told us to post it if they died tonight:

Spoiler:

F

u

c

k

w

i

t

s

[SnowStorm]

No Snow. Muffin left that. And the post should be reported for being abusive and fucking obscene.

Fuck muffin. He can rot in hell. Never want to play with such a self-entitled, ignorant jerk again.

And shame on you for sharing a completely unnecessary last bit of toxicity with the rest of us.

That was really NOT helpful.

I couldn't tell who it was, they didn't sign.

Don't exaggerate. Maybe I'm being naive or maybe I just don't take everything people say in this game as seriously as some of you, but fact is, SftD was frustrated with how last day went and I share that feeling. I also thought it was amusing. It's kind of an "I told you so", which I do think some players needed to hear. The end.

[SnowStorm]

Yay my neighborhood is now just 2 fucking people.

I have strong reasons to suspect SnowStorm might be scum, other than the obvious ULF scumread.

Do you suspect me? Do you think I should suspect you too for those same reasons?

[SnowStorm]

I'm fine with PLing snowstorm too

You're fine with policy lynching a beloved princess on day 3 with one flipped scum?...

[SnowStorm]

The problem is you need to be so town and working it so hard as to attract the NK, which you are not doing.

Otherwise, we need to lynch you before double-night takes us straight to lylo.

I'd say the choice is yours, but would like you to make it in the next 12 hours.

Lol, yeah that's not happening. And that post is really wrong if you're town. I mean, you're putting all the weight on me, as if I chose to be a BP, as if it's my fault that I haven't been killed yet or that I'm not being town read by everyone and as if us going to LyLo in the next day is entirely dependent on my play. Are you scum or are you town looking for a scapegoat to blame for your sucky play?

[SnowStorm]

Speaker claimed Commuter in the QT, not 2-shot, just commuter. I checked his ISO, he never said/hinted that he was a commuter in the thread. He said he was commuting, and then at the last second he said he wouldn't. Then he ends up dead. Me(town) and SnowStorm were the only ones to know this, and I doubt Speaker would die for any other reason other than SnowStorm alerting the scumteam that this was a night Speaker wouldn't commute. I see no other reason for why Speaker would be dead over ETL, Bork, or Ika.

I think you missed this:

I guess I could have vigged speaker so we could get the point.

don't bother predicting us btw! i think there's a decent chance we won't be killed any time soon!

Anyway, do you think I'd kill SftD and just wait for you to bring this up, instead of doing it myself and accuse you of being scum? And why even kill SftD in the first place if i knew it would lead to this? Not to mention that SftD was town reading me and thought our hood was all town; by killing them I'd be breaking the illusion.

[SnowStorm]

The problem is you need to be so town and working it so hard as to attract the NK, which you are not doing.

Otherwise, we need to lynch you before double-night takes us straight to lylo.

I'd say the choice is yours, but would like you to make it in the next 12 hours.

Lol, yeah that's not happening. And that post is really wrong if you're town. I mean, you're putting all the weight on me, as if I chose to be a BP, as if it's my fault that I haven't been killed yet or that I'm not being town read by everyone and as if us going to LyLo in the next day is entirely dependent on my play.

Yes,

with your claim

, your NK will be dependent on your play. This has been pointed out in the fact that the vig was asked to shoot you.

And unless you are lying, your lynch will lose us the game if not done BEFORE the day BEFORE mylo.

Are you scum or are you town looking for a scapegoat to blame for your sucky play?

I take full responsibility for my sucky play. But, I haven't claimed a role that will lose us the game if you are lynched too late.

You seem to be ignoring the part where I CLAIMED to prevent the double night my lynch would ensure.

You shouldn't be worried about my lynch losing us the game if you didn't think I was town. If you do think I'm scum then you have no reason to worry and you should lynch me. If you think I'm town, instead of worrying about my lynch you should be making sure it never happens.

[SnowStorm]

The problem is you need to be so town and working it so hard as to attract the NK, which you are not doing.

Otherwise, we need to lynch you before double-night takes us straight to lylo.

I'd say the choice is yours, but would like you to make it in the next 12 hours.

Lol, yeah that's not happening. And that post is really wrong if you're town. I mean, you're putting all the weight on me, as if I chose to be a BP, as if it's my fault that I haven't been killed yet or that I'm not being town read by everyone and as if us going to LyLo in the next day is entirely dependent on my play.

Yes,

with your claim

, your NK will be dependent on your play. This has been pointed out in the fact that the vig was asked to shoot you.

And unless you are lying, your lynch will lose us the game if not done BEFORE the day BEFORE mylo.

Are you scum or are you town looking for a scapegoat to blame for your sucky play?

I take full responsibility for my sucky play. But, I haven't claimed a role that will lose us the game if you are lynched too late.

You seem to be ignoring the part where I CLAIMED to prevent the double night my lynch would ensure.

You shouldn't be worried about my lynch losing us the game if you didn't think I was town. If you do think I'm scum then you have no reason to worry and you should lynch me. If you think I'm town, instead of worrying about my lynch you should be making sure it never happens.

This is weird how your not getting what I'm saying and I'm not getting WHY your not getting it.

You scummy=we want to lynch you.
You="My lynch will make 2 nights in a row!"
Us= We don't want that, let's not lynch him right now.

You will either make it to the end, or you will die.
Most people die.
1- If we kill you, double night actions, 2-6 kills.
2- If you are NK, that doesn't happen.

If #1 happens too late in the game, it is WORSE for us. We need #2 to happen.

You will make #2 happen.

If you do NOT make #2 happen, we will make #1 happen.

I don't know if you are town or scum. As the game progresses, and you remain in that ambiguous grey area, you will be lynched because if you are telling the truth, we need your negative stuff to happen SOONER rather than LATER.

So, in summary, if you=town, and you

Stay null or lurk or be scummy- We lynch you soon to minimize the negative impact of your lynch would have later in the game.
Get universally townread= scum NKs you , resulting in a single night instead of 2.

Ok, this is easily solvable. Instead of waiting for me to magically become conftown, you read the game, think for a couple of minutes and get a town read on me. Yes, it is that easy! Because I'm actually pretty obviously not scum in this game.

[SnowStorm]

Ok, this is easily solvable. Instead of waiting for me to magically become conftown, you read the game, think for a couple of minutes and get a town read on me. Yes, it is that easy! Because I'm actually pretty obviously not scum in this game.

build me a town case for you b/c your still scum to me

No, lets do it the other way around, you build me a scum case.

It's really funny, because I'm being called "really bad town", but the accusations thrown at me all paint me as an even worse scum.

[SnowStorm]

i have done jack shit this whole game lol

i am a modified watcher that choose 3 targets and know the faction of whoever shot any of the target. scum town or whatever. i do not know the faction in the role pm. it only shows up as a result. so far we have majiffy which i forgot and

the scumteam b is called "the horsemen"

or smth i dunno if thers SK or bomb that would probably count as somtehing else

When did we learn the name of the second scum team? I thought it was tied to your role, but apparently it isn't... Did I miss something?

[SnowStorm]

snow my god. read the last couple pages at least.

Oh so that's the result he got on Nero? I'm sorry, it wasn't a very clear claim.

[SnowStorm]

I fucked up yesterday. I'll tell everyone what the hood was protecting in a few minutes - something literally just came up at work that can't wait.

Going to defer this for a little bit actually based on hood discussion.

Are we going to hear about this any time soon?

[SnowStorm]

ULF, who's your character and what's the name of your ability?

[SnowStorm]

Who did you track

nobody.

want to know why?

BECASUE IM A VT AND I STILL DONT KNOW HOW THE FUCK I GET FEEDBACK AS A FUCKED UP VT. NOW LEAVE ME ALONE

Oh, for a moment I thought you were saying you had lied about the tracker claim and were saying something in the like of "I can't believe people still bother reading my posts", because you're a compulsive liar/gambiter. Then you told ETL to leave you alone, so that you could cope with your problems. It almost looked like a cry for help.

Moving on, I think I'd like to hear a claim now, from whoever sent that result to ika.

[SnowStorm]

Moving on, I think I'd like to hear a claim now, from whoever sent that result to ika

LOL I THINK NOT.

That person stays fucking quiet and continues tracking people until they hit scum.

Hm, I guess, though we haven't heard any tracking results today...

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: ULF

The claim makes a zero lick of sense and even appears to backtrack on itself to further confuse. Add to the fact that he didn't claim character or role is just sketchy as hell.

Why doesn't it make sense and how does that make him scum?

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: SKOT.

[SnowStorm]

Guess I can see it. Don't like it that Majiffy said it.

I actually like that. It's one of the few things that's keeping me from getting paranoid of Venmar.

Town
Venmar bork mollieslot rogue (begrudgingly)

Scum
Eek Cloud9

Really really really want to lynch eek.

Snowstorm and macaronis are weaker scumreads that I need to see more from.

Did this neighborhood submit Eek for their lynch choice day1? What was the vote distribution?

Yes. Majiffy was the first to suggest and vote Eek. Then closer to the deadline, Venmar, Mac and I voted in that order. There wasn't really any discussion on this.

[SnowStorm]

I don't like how OK ULF is with his own lynch, considering the perceived strength of his role.

This is what bothers me the most about ULF. I mean, I'd be willing to believe the claim and give him another shot, but his defeatist attitude doesn't feel right.

UNVOTE:

[SnowStorm]

hi

as a formality of mafia policy

i am going to put my vote on the largest counterwagon as all townies should do

VOTE: bbmolla

yo, if nobody has been contradicting my results, or CC-ing me, there pretty much isn't any valid objective reason to doubt me; all your reasons for doubting me are subjective

considering that i have watched the top 3 targets that scum would most likely visit every night; and that no scum has driven a hammer/drilled me yet because they did something that has contradicted my results, pls genuinely hold all doubt and look somewhere else.

now that the vig is dead, nobody is going to vig our "beloved princess" any more. there is no possible way to know if its a lie or not.


this is the purest essence of WIFOM: to open the box, that might contain a bomb or not?

so yea im agree with Venmar's suspicions about Snowstorm, this is me

FoS: Snowstorm

[SnowStorm]

Ugh, I wanted to hit preview... But yeah, we're definitely lynching that ^.

We should be coordinating the lynch to get the sensor, or at least any of the other abilities. What's the status in each hood? How many objectives need to be completed and how many can be completed today?

[SnowStorm]

Metal is scum and we should lynch him. There's no explanation as to why a town player would behave like this. He was fine with getting lynched and yet he took three days to fully claim. If he was ok with being lynched he would have just claimed everything then and made it all clear. Then again, if he was town and had this role he shouldn't be ok with his lynch in the first place.

[SnowStorm]

And I'm really paranoid of Venmar. I can't tell if he's scum or just really bad at this, because there's no reason for someone in our hood to think I'm scum, let alone that I'd kill SftD.

[SnowStorm]

Knowing that he has town results on people changes the game for me

Point is, he doesn't. When he first claimed he said he had no results other that the horsemen one. This is a clear move to get some town PR's revealed and/or get the other scum team to cc him.

[SnowStorm]

Metal is scum and we should lynch him.

you are being dumb.

Am I?

[SnowStorm]

Explain ourself then. Why am I being dumb?

[SnowStorm]

Couldn't be Speaker either.

[SnowStorm]

Wait, SftD was a commuter and there's strong evidence in our hood that points to them commuting on night 1. Shouldn't Metal have gotten a failed result on them, instead of the "visited by Town" result he claimed?

[SnowStorm]

unless they didn't commute. PR result > strong evidence

It's not like I'm taking a wild guess. I'm telling you it's much more likely that they did commute. Venmar can verify that. Now, you believe what you want to believe. You think it's more likely that Metal is telling the truth than that SftD commuted? I don't.

[SnowStorm]

unless they didn't commute. PR result > strong evidence

It's not like I'm taking a wild guess. I'm telling you it's much more likely that they did commute. Venmar can verify that. Now, you believe what you want to believe. You think it's more likely that Metal is telling the truth than that SftD commuted? I don't.

You haven't told me why you think they commuted. You're just saying "Oh well I think they did based on X in the hood".

That doesn't tell me shit. The info I have are a townread on ULF, his result, and your word.

1. Mac and Cheese suggested we predict SftD for N1 NK. They replied "we're not getting night killed for a number of reasons; nominate someone else if you want to achieve objectives".
2. When Cheese later explains why they suggested that. "I highly doubt we'll die any time soon. I wouldn't worry about predicting our death"
3. After the N1 flips: "We are a (limited utility in some way) commuter btw in case it wasn't super obvious via the fact we are night crawler and the multiple times i mentioned us not dying any time soon."
4. After AP's flip: "do we want to predict a night kill? once again, don't bother predicting me. i'm commuting tonight".

Those are the instances that lead me to think they commuted night 1. 1 and 2 are pretty straightforward. I don't see why they'd want to make us think they were commuting and not actually commute when they had the role. 3 is the claim. 4. The way it's written, it's telling us, don't bother predicting us because we'll just keep commuting. All their mentions of commuting hint that they wanted us to think they'd commute every night (except when they said they weren't commuting). I don't think they'd just set up a bluff and not back it up with the actual role. And I think it would be really dumb for a commuter to not commute on night 1, especially when they were generally perceived as town and a likely kill target, like the night 1 predictions tell us.

I can't find a single reason as to why they'd not commute on night 1.

[SnowStorm]

Shouldn't we coordinate this to at least try getting on of the hood abilities?

[SnowStorm]

I lied about town visiting s4td.

I just wanted to see which scumbutt pointed it out

It's called a gambit and I have caught scum

I think

OMFG! Thanks for confirming that, because I wasn't sure.

[SnowStorm]

Town visiting bork + ETL + Nero was correct. S4td DID commute n1, the only other people who would know this were the other people in his hood OR someone who used night actions on him

Considering whoever sniped a commuter n2 and (only 1 kill last night) I may or may not be confbiasing but this confirms my suspicions

When I flip town u can lynch snowstorm right? If yes I vote myself

How would you know if they commuted? Even if you got no result, it wouldn't tell you they commuted. Weird huh?

[SnowStorm]

If I were scum, I wouldn't be town.

[SnowStorm]

The problem is you need to be so town and working it so hard as to attract the NK, which you are not doing.

Well, guess what, YOU'RE NOT HELPING! I'm not getting NK'ed as long as scum see my lynch as a possibility, which it still is, since people keep going back to it.

[SnowStorm]

ETL, how do you explain MS's claim then? Why didn't he claim his results outright and clearly instead of claiming that he only got the"Horsemen shot" result.

With the gamestate as it is, town need all the information it can get and we need it all to be clear with no room for misinterpretation. MS's claim is unnecessarily confusing. It feels like a giant piece of patchwork. He kept changing it, adding stuff to it, retracting stuff from it. How does that help town? Why would he do that as town? I assume it would have been in his interest as a town player with a PR like his to make it all clear so that we could think about it and move on sooner to other suspects. The way it was done, it's scum survivalism.

On top of that, the alternative he suggests is the most anti-town lynch we could have, mine. It's not a coincidence.

[SnowStorm]

Unless you think Venmar is going to come in here and say that everything snowstorm said in 5204 is bullshit

Well, he didn't exactly agree with me in our PT, but I don't think he'd go as far as to call it bullshit.

[SnowStorm]

VOTE: MetalSonic.

[SnowStorm]

Why do I have a feeling we're heading for an NL?

It's ridiculous how we had the Metal lynch pretty much set and when we started trying to organize it to try fulfilling some objectives, votes started flying in every other direction. This shouldn't be overlooked.

[SnowStorm]

Oic.

VOTE: MS

That's pretty fuckin terrible.

So you called me dumb and dense when you didn't even know what you were talking about...

[SnowStorm]

WTF Toog?!

I got a result from someone else's role last night:

Feu visited ETL and Venmar.

The ETL part makes sense given his and Toog's claim, but he said nothing about targeting Venmar, and Venny's still alive... Feu?

[SnowStorm]

I kinda think Toog's claim makes him more likely to be town. The only part I don't understand is the one where he concludes that Feu is scum.

[SnowStorm]

Yeah, what hood is closest to an ability and what ability is it? We're going to do it proper this time.

The X-Men have two completed objectives and we can easily complete another to get the governor shot. Though I'm not very excited about it.

[SnowStorm]

Idk what's going on, what I do know is that Feu visited two players last night, and anyone even considering the possibility that I am lying scum is either scum, very (and I mean VERY) delusional or just plain terrible at this.

[SnowStorm]

Idk what's going on, what I do know is that Feu visited two players last night, and anyone even considering the possibility that I am lying scum is either scum, very (and I mean VERY) delusional or just plain terrible at this.

you dont have to by lying, you can still be scum

Yes, ika, I know you're terrible at this.

[SnowStorm]

Yep, Feu just have to be scum. They're probably frustrated because they had such a nice claim all set up.

[SnowStorm]

The track has been tampered with.

Is that possible? How would that work and how would we know it?

Our only option is to lynch Feu, not only because it's the only way to verify the claims, but because he's most likely scum.

[SnowStorm]

Die scum!

[SnowStorm]

Whatever, we got Day 4 all over again, clashing claims that indicate one of two people are lying and therefore scum. Yay.

Nope. Only thing we have is people making assumptions.

I don't think we should discard the possibility of Feu being the last of his scum team.

[SnowStorm]

What about traitors?

[SnowStorm]

What about traitors?

Traitors don't really make sense in Multiball, there would have to be two, one for each team, for it to be balanced for both teams too.

I think it makes more sense than the "bus driver / everyone around me is lying" theory.

[SnowStorm]

The 3v3vTown setup has nothing to do with the Bus Driver theory though, at least not in my world.

It does. The bus driver theory can only be true if he had another living partner. And it's the only theory that points to 3v3vtown, otherwise, most evidence seems to point at 2-man scum teams.

[SnowStorm]

The 3v3vTown setup has nothing to do with the Bus Driver theory though, at least not in my world.

It does. The bus driver theory can only be true if he had another living partner. And it's the only theory that points to 3v3vtown, otherwise, most evidence seems to point at 2-man scum teams.

And the fact that most multiball games over 20 players are at least 3v3vTown?

Wouldn't 2v2vTown + traitors + wacky roles balance out the lack of a third scum?

[SnowStorm]

Wouldn't 2v2vTown + traitors + wacky roles balance out the lack of a third scum?

No, that is a terrible, terrible balancing technique if that's the case. Stop being obtuse and trying to justify 2v2vTown, it doesn't make any fucking sense.

I'm sorry if my inquisitive mind and unfamiliarity with 20+ player game's balance bothers you! I guess I'll just sit quietly in my corner and wait for the rest of you to lynch the vig or something.

[SnowStorm]

if a beloved princess is killed does it still activate?

No, duh.

[SnowStorm]

Venmar, you keep talking about your POV and how some things you did are so town but you still list me as possible scum, when I did basically the same things you're using to defend yourself: I was the one who pointed out that SftD commuted day 1; I pushed for all of the flipped scum's lynches; I revealed a tracking result that resulted in Feu's lynch. What did you do? You "confirmed" that SftD commuted (big deal) and you voted for Feu, making him self hammer and screwing the objectives for Rogue's hood. Ok, I could buy that you think those things should make you town. What I don't buy is how you could think that and still think I could be scum when there's much more evidence that I am town, even more so when you're using some of that evidence to defend yourself. It doesn't make sense from a town POV. Then there's the stuff from our hood, which includes a pretty strong town tell from me. It's like you're oblivious to everything in this game that does not concern you, and I've been having a hard time believing someone could be as oblivious as you've been.

[SnowStorm]

You are ignoring all the evidence that I am town - the most obvtown player alive, in fact. And you're ignoring it because my claim clashes with Toog's? My claim, which got Feu scum lynched? The one which permitted you to place your oh so towny vote on him?

I think I've already said it that your suspicion on me has been unreasonable from the start.

[SnowStorm]

Not like I expected any better...

[SnowStorm]

the most obvtown player alive, in fact

Fine, we can share.

[SnowStorm]

What bothers me the most about Toog's claim was that his role usage was really anti-town. Then I've never felt very good about him. I still don't like his first posts and the only reason why I dropped my early scum read on him was because of that objective fuck up, it seemed too bad to be scum. But now, we're in day five and still not a single hood has been able to complete the necessary three objectives. There's no way this is all to blame on lack of town coordination, I really think scum has been sabotaging our objectives and hiding between our uncoordination and that "screw the objectives" feeling, so now I don't think Toog's day 1 move was as likely to come from town as I did then.

[SnowStorm]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snowstorm

Interesting. Explain the change of heart?

Makes more sense for Snowstorm to fake a track result as scum on feu than anything at the moment I think? I donno.

This really didn't sit well with me. If I'm not mistaken, that vote prevented our hood from completing objective 5. On top of that, it seemed kinda arbitrary, as if he didn't care to figure which of us was lying. And also, BB and I have actually played a decent amount of games together and while I wouldn't expect him to be able to automatically read me correctly, I wouldn't expect him to vote me just because I "could be lying". I think I'd expect more conviction from town BB.

Jailkeeping me was also odd. It was pretty much a wasted shot, even if his intention was protection.

[SnowStorm]

To be specific, I'll just claim for him.

BBMolla is a town backup who got Nero's role. Everything else is as stated in-thread and he jail'd bork last night.

Also, Nero jailed me night 1.

[SnowStorm]

Venmar's lynch sucked and I'd gladly vote off ika and SKOT from the game. Sadly I don't believe they could both be scum, so I'm gonna have to think about it more.

I'd be ok with a toog lynch too.

[SnowStorm]

What do you want those hammers for? You don't even care who you're hammering, you just want to hammer. It's dumb as hell if you're town.

[SnowStorm]

Lol, you don't even care about getting lynched, as long as you're getting the hammer. Wtf dude?

[SnowStorm]

Just as the villagers had lay down to sleep,

Magik

(a.k.a. Ilyana Rasputin) projected herself across the multiverse with this message:

"SnowStorm is as he says:

Jean Grey, Town Beloved Princess."

And as quickly as she had appeared, she was gone.

Btw, was this result from your hood's ability? Who decided and who agreed?

[SnowStorm]

I'm not interested in 1 on 1's either. Why don't you all go against each other? That could be more interesting.

[SnowStorm]

Toog looks really obvRedScum upon ISO'ing him. And SKOT is the third member if there is one.

Leaning on Cloud as possible third Blue, but I haven't ISO'ed Rogue yet.

[SnowStorm]

2 reds in mine?

i isoed too and his "no scums in mine" makes senseas red scum but i dunno bout skot (but then again hes been non-existant)

I say SKOT because he had the same attitude as Toog towards ULF, which was to vote him outright, thus directly opposing him (a.k.a. busing), which makes sense, given that ULF knew he'd get lynched in that day or the next, his partner(s) couldn't risk defending him or taking a wishy-washy stance. That day Toog also argued that he wanted to lynch the scum in your hood. If SKOT's scum, that would explain why Toog fought so strongly to lynch ULF and why ULF didn't put much of a fight, because it would "lower the chances" of SKOT being scum, thus giving him some protection. The next day he turned to his own hood and town read both you and SKOT.

[SnowStorm]

I hope that plan involves lynching toog.

[SnowStorm]

How's your Rogue vs. C9 read?

Still haven't read Rogue, but there's something about their interactions with Majiffy that doesn't feel partnerish.