Tales of You (Endgame)
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1072
- Joined: September 29, 2012
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Posts: 1072
- Joined: September 29, 2012
:TOWN (Strongest->Weakest)
- Titan is my strongest townread in the game and I actually think Tammy's distrust of our neighborhood and questioning BRO's meltdown is a1) Titan (Tammy + Ser Arthur Dayne)massivetowntell because it is not something she'd ever fake as scum or is capable of faking as scum at all. It's because I think she has a few similar tendencies to me as scum in that she'd feel incredibly guilty for questioning it and it is something she'd never do on purpose. Her read on Breakfast for viewing the gamestate similarly also occurred very organically and her asking me about my opinion on Nacho in 4418 and 4453 after hydra'ing with him as scum as well as her other interactions with me fits with the way I'd expect her to interact with me and also fits in with her "find town to bounce thoughts off of" philosophy that we've used in the past. It is the little things like wanting a second opinion about her recent townread on Nacho that I don't think she'd think to do as scum and the timing and context of it felt like it came off naturally. That's just out of the most recent posts. The earlier posts are incredibly town as well so overall, would throw my laptop out the window if she drew scum here. And I hate people for making me paranoid. Also, I'm chalking this up as a correct read and I'll keep my can-read-Tammy card if she flips town (she will) because I am at a point where it isliterally impossiblefor me to see her being scum.
- This read is based off of Pieguyn's early posts after he immediately replaced in. The confidence in Post 2585 and the way in which he pursues his reads is impossible for Pie to fake as scum. I've played with Pie in two games before and read a bunch of his scum games and there is no way he is capable of faking genuine belief in his reads. Pie also isn't the type of player to lead lynches as scum or invest himself in the direction of the day's lynch as much as he did here. It heavily, heavily reflects NY169 where he showed many of the same tendencies. Other posts like 2603, and 2654 show the same level of unfakeable confidence and pursuit of suspects that a hallmark, unfakeable feature of Pie as town as does his pursuit of Mastin based on Mastin's reaction to BRO's meltdown. It is one thing to not be convinced by it (which is understandable), quite another to believe scum-Pie is actually capable of pursuing it the way he did (which is impossible for him to do because his scumgame lacks that depth and confidence and he is as good as scum).2) Yggdra Union (GIF + Pieguyn)
- Nacho's push on Mastin felt incredibly town and very closely matches the way Nacho pursues his suspects when he is town. His later drunk posting and the way his emotions were showing through in Post 4855 isn't something Nacho would fake as scum. Not that he can't, but he3) Nachomamma8wouldn't. This continues in the next three posts 4856, 4857, and 4859 where he launches an attack on Mastin for ignoring BRO's meltdown. The major difference I saw between his push on Sakura in NY169 and here was that he only used emotion to withdraw from the attack there whereas here, he used extremely deep emotions to launch an attack on Mastin and it goes against every bit of Nacho's scumplay that I am aware of. Reading those sequence of posts, I realize there is no way Nacho is in a scum QT talking about how brilliant his posts are because he wouldn't go to that level at all and Nacho isn't the type of player to marshall other hurt feelings to drive home a lynch as scum.
- Their entrance into the game in Post 1145 mirrored a lot of my own feelings at the time because those were very similar to my reads at that point. BRO and Desp getting baited by RBD and going at it made a lot of sense from a town POV. I get that it happened around the time AP came in but I am not seeing it as very likely that BRO jumped into the game just so AP doesn't call him out. I also saw a lot of scumhunting from BRO feels like he is genuinely analyzing the game. For example, his differentiation between the core and the periphery of the game in Post 1500 and trying to figure things out from there. And then, there's the meltdown in Post 3020. I think most players are agreed that it was real regardless of his affiliation. I felt very townish to me because of why he had the meltdown. He says that RBD has been obvscum all game. He points his issues with Mastin. He talks about how Nacho saying he caused a carnival of lunacy got to him. Would he really be so upset at Nacho's words if he were scum? He'd be quite proud of it and gloating in the scum QT at causing a carnival of lunacy. He could be faking it of course which brings us back to whether he would "fake" an anxiety attack if he didn't actually have one. His pointing out Mastin's emotional harrassment of him and saying that Pie and I are his only allies also felt like it came from an incredibly genuine place.4) Just Sheep Us (Broseidon + Desperado)
- Brian's latest walls are incredibly well-thought out and his presentation closely matches what I expect from him as town. I liked his Post 4361 and the way he was townreading Pie matches up with my own reasoning and his explanation for the read going stale is what I expect from Brian considering he wasn't in the neighborhood and Pie's posting had faded out. I also really like that he picked up on the nuances of the weird interactions between MastinSSK and AP considering AP didn't. It was fairly obvious that I was talking about how odd it was that AP consistently defends MastinSSK despite the latter push on him which AP had oversimplified to "why should I suspect him just because he suspects me?" I also really like Brian's follow-up in Post 4489 and his reasoning for townreading me and PV resonates and is exactly the way I'd expect Brian to go about trying to get a read on me. His points about my meta-dive on him were things he brought up as town before and the overall level of effort and attention to detail is what I expect from Brian as town and I haven't seen them as much in his scumgames. This re-inforces my very early read on NotScience and I felt that the way he wanted to run up Titan to gauge their affiliation felt extremely genuine so putting both heads together, I am confident RG is town.5) Red Gyarados (Brian Skies + notscience)
- Their latest reads-list in Post 4950 and view of the gamestate aligns strongly with mine and I feel that we are about as in-sync as we6) Breakfast With Stalin (Ffery + Beli)canbe given our playstyle differences. I felt the paranoia of Titan was somewhat odd but makes sense with what I'd expect out of Ffery and the one time I talked to Beli, he felt natural and unforced in his reads. I am not bet-my-laptop-on-it confident because of their positioning with regard to Mastin/Rancid/AP during D1 and lack of their help or vote on any of those wagons felt odd. However, it is still something I can see coming from Ffery considering the nature of her relationship with Natirasha. It is something I'll come back to when Rancid's affiliation is known BUT I'd be pretty surprised overall if they are scum here and the latest list of reads erased most of my frustration with them as to their complete lack of scumreads and oddly structured reads lists. I'd bet the game on my top five reads being town. I could maybe let Tammy's Breakfast read influence me and make it top six but I feel it'll be more apparent once I see some flips.
7) The Fox and the Hound (cephrir + DV)- I walled about DeasVail in Post 1689 about how he is playing to his town meta. I like the way their suspicion on Rancid built up and I like the ostentatiousness of their vote. It matches up with what I expect DeasVail to do as town. Since then nothing about their posts gave me cause for alarm and I really liked that Ceph and DV decided to go back and read through everyone's ISO's again after they winded up with a lack of scumreads. The way they went through everyone and landed back with similar suspects resonates a lot and I agree with most of the reads they presented in Post 4947. I liked most of what DV posted and while the way Cephrir presents his posts make me paranoid, I've learned not to read too much into it.
- I walled about PV in Post 3003. Important points are that the way he tracked down my read on Cupcake, enquired about it, and followed up on it felt very genuine and I liked most of his interactions with me. He doesn't come off well regarding his back-and-forth with Tammy because I disagree with his push and the points he made about her old meta. BUT, him asking me what I thought and making me explain my read on Titan felt incredibly town because it felt like he genuinely believed what he was saying about her and wanted me (as a strong townread of his) to discuss the read and explain my side. Him backing off because I have a strong townread on Titan also felt genuine and I'd be more suspicious if there was a hint of subtlety in there but it felt very blatant and transparent overall.8) PeregrineV
- I explained this to PV in 1804. Nothing I've seen so far has made me doubt this read. What I didn't mention in it was a reference to Wicked mafia, a recent game I played with Katsuki as town. In it, the way he persued reads and his initial suspicion of players were very against the grain and independent. This sharply contrasts with the way he plays as scum where he either goes with the flow or predicts the flow and Anything Goes and Death Note are great games for reference. There were a couple of minor things that pinged where I felt he was going with the flow but overall, I am just not seeing the opportunistic manipulation and outguessing the town that Katsuki is well-equipped to do and often does as scum.9) Cupcake Panda
- I'm not sure what to think of recent Mara posts asking for my read on Clyton of all people and the whole "10) MagentaTheGreat (Orcinus + Mara)giving a summary to a replacement" scumtell. I guess I can buy that she genuinely believes in it. I have 0% accuracy in reading Mara defending her hard when she was scum and accusing her when she was town. Orc's posts felt town. His role felt town. And as long as Orc posts more, it should help me solidify a read there. But if I am wrong about a townread somewhere and Penguin is town, it is either here or amongst the last few townreads above.
- I'll give Penguin a fresh start and see what she comes with as I feel I know her well enough to read her. I don't feel that any of Clyton's posts made any sense overall and I was trying to figure out if it was based on playstyle or affiliation. I also think role-wise a bodyguard + watcher is rather OP but I'll wait to see what Penguin says and read her off of her play.11) Penguin_Alien
:Scum (Strongest->Weakest)
- I didn't like Mastin's initial attack on me and the way he went about it. Post 548 in particular felt incredibly manipulative and felt like he was agreeing with points that didn't make a lot of sense at all. For instance, agreeing with Rancid when they said "12) MastinSSK (Mastin2 + MafiaSSK)this post, it blows" in response to my analysis on Mac. The way he attacked Ceph also felt like he didn't really give Ceph a lot to refute which is sort of convenient because I felt the same way when he pointed out posts in a way that was mostly insubstantial and irrefutable. His points about me "raging" also felt like a disconnect from reality. His play towards the end of D1 was also scummy and I especially didn't like his portrayal of my play as bad. I didn't like the attack on Ceph saying that Ceph looked at him as a mislynch - Beli explains this in detail and I agree with it. I felt that his attack on Ffery D2 could be an attempt to manipulate people who had a growing frustration with Breakfast hoping that it would resonate with them. Overall, I feel like everyone is suspecting Mastin for the way he attacked them and interacted with them, and for my part, I certainly feel that his interactions with me were scummy and manipulative.
- Mostly went over this in my back-and-forth with AP. I didn't like his interactions with MastinSSK. I didn't feel like his suspicion of me came from a genuine place. I don't like him interjecting himself into me and Tammy discussing the neighborhood last night to make himself look good with "reasonable" looking posts like "13) AngryPidgeonthis is all you were saying, weren't you?" It feels like scum manipulating the gamestate to try and gain an advantage. I also feel like he is fishing for things to make look suspicious as opposed to genuinely trying to understand motivations and figure things out.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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This bugs me. I feel like you copied Tammy's reasoning. She has reason to feel that way about me but why would you?In post 4950, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I feel like I should have a stronger read here if he's town-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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I think you are unlikely to be scum with Mastin. I'll have to think about Rancid. You derailed their lynch but the way they were appealing to you constantly and you sending them hugs feels like you are unlikely to be scum with them either and it'll help clear my mind.In post 4964, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:
I can go into more detail when I get home. I feel like we've played enough games together now that by mid day 2 I should feel pretty confident you're town. I also feel your read of me has been hedgy. your recent reads list doesn't alleviate that. what flips would solidify your read on me and why?In [url=http://www.mafihas%20been%20greedyc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5867573#p5867573]post 4962[/url], CarbonFiber wrote:
This bugs me. I feel like you copied Tammy's reasoning. She has reason to feel that way about me but why would you?In post 4950, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I feel like I should have a stronger read here if he's town
The one time you had to read me, you struggled to get a read although had me as leaning town so I don't know if you expected the same results or better.
Your read on me is one thing that bugs me about you because I feel like I've been quite obviously town. For example, leading a wagon on Rancid and putting this much effort into collaborating with the town. I'm also the most obviously town player from our neighborhood. I am not sure why you'd expect to be read as obviously town when you haven't been. Most of it D1 has been me and Pie leading the game and later Nacho and D2 has been entirely me, you and Tammy trying to get on the same page and figuring out where to go from there and Nacho's latest posts pushing everyone towards a Mastin lynch. You are aware that your meta falls under different categories and some are easier to read as town than others. For example, AA: MFA when you led the lynch on Brian, you were fairly obviously town. I've meta'd you enough that I can catch all of your towngames but I don't know why you wouldn't want me to be certain in a game where you are not obvtown.
Your hesitation in reading me is one of the things that make me hesitate in reading you as top-tier town which is weird because you are hesitating on me because ofmyread on you.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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@ Cephrir,
1) What's alarming? The post you quoted or the Mastin's narrative?
2) Are you questioning your townread on Yggdra? Or just saying that they are town but not as obvtown to you as they are to me?
3) So, you understood why I accused Mastin and AP of bussing. But you want to know when I did this? On D1 after their back-and-forth. Your posts are a little difficult to parse because I am not sure what your positions are i.e. you say you agree with something but also disagree.
4) Regarding AP townreading Mastin, I explain it in my list of reads. Brian caught it as well. It is that I thought their interactions are weird.
5) "It would be easier to take this at face value if it weren't about yourself." - Not sure what you are trying to say here. I scumhunt attacks on me just like I scumhunt attacks on others. I think in general, it is easier for people to talk about attacks on themselves but it doesn't make it any less valid.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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To your credit, you haven't been doing it although AP has been with the way he intercepted Titan/CF conversation.In post 4980, MastinSSK wrote:It's pathetically easy. Stay out of the spotlight. Keep townblocs from forming, and induce paranoia in them. For instance, if players are absolutely convinced that they have a townbloc, just with a Thor in it (oh gods, I'm actually using that)...emphasize the need to find the Thor, which induces enough paranoia to break the townbloc into smithereens. Keep the town divided into camps, and have scum on both sides of the camp. Keep cards spread out, so that when necessary, you can chose to stack the deck.
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I'm wondering if it makes sense to just lynch AP first. If Mastin is bussing, we'll help him bus. If he's town, then good.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM TAMMY!In post 4984, Titan wrote:I'm busy today so I don't have much time, but...
Mastin - when I say that it will clear up the distraction, I don't mean the amount of posting you're doing. I've been doing enough posting of my own, but you're posting doesn't really help to clear up your alignment. And the distraction is the fact that you are a central focus of concern in this game. You are what a lot of people are focused on. I don't see that changing at all.
When I said you were a craftier scum player than me it didn't mean that I thought you just couldn't be scum here if you were getting run up, it was referring to the conviction. I would have a hard time conveying that much conviction that I'm town if I were scum but I think that you are craftier that me in that regard so it's not as strong a town tell in your case.
Regarding the neighborhood and why des frustrated me so much last night. Apparently they're towning it up in the neighborhood and raising concerns there but not doing anything here and we're all just supposed to buy they're town from it. I think neighborhoods are wonderful and can really help people get reads on each other, but when you are in a neighborhood, you can focus on manipulating those people in the neighborhood. Your "mist" can be directed in a way it can't in the game thread because you're focusing on manipulating just a small set of people and when you're not posting in the thread it raises alarms. IF they're keeping up with the game, even if it's just to say that they're falling behind, why not post in the game too? Why stay in hiding. I can't see the obvtown towniness being displayed in the neighborhood and when it's not in the game thread too I'm not going to just buy it. You can get awesome reads in the neighborhood. In NY146, I realized that MOI was trying to manipulate me in the neighborhood in a way that pushed me towards the proper decision in lylo. Without that neighborhood and seeing his behavior in that context, I might have gotten it wrong. In The Wire, I was able to get a good town read on DV based on the way he claimed to us, and we made a pretty decent town case on him that unfortunately wasn't followed after we died, but DV was also posting in the game so we weren't like "take our words he's town". Incidentally I also claimed pretty early in that neighborhood even though I wasn't convinced of either DV or Kuribo being town at the time. /
And here, the inactivity in my neighborhood was matched by inactivity in the game thread. Neither of us are keeping things out of thread while being active in the neighborhood. Penguin and I have talked a little bit more since she replaced in but it's mostly been me giving her an update of the game and asking her to read a couple people and tell me what she thinks, and she's a bit paranoid (or acting paranoid >_>) because this is her fourth neighborhood this year and in each one of her neighborhoods there's been scum who've been able to manipulate her in that way. And in this one both falcon and nacho should understand where I'm coming from that people can manipulate people in neighborhoods, not only from Viscon but from Wicked as well as both nacho and falcon were able to manipulate people in the neighborhood and then that was used as a means of getting them town read by people who were suspicious of them beforehand.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Spoiler: Breakfast With Stalin
I'll respond to this in points:
1) I don't know if Rancid will flip before the end of the game. But I hope they will and I think they will. It would be a bit scum-sided to not let us know if we are in LYLO (I think it happened in a Bork game before though) or to hide their flip for good. I wonder if whoever killed them knows about it, or if there is a role that can access the flips (CSI agent? I definitely played games offsite with roles that can find out janitored flips), or as Nacho put forth, that the role is a scum role revealed upon Mastin's flip. I don't know how but I hope in some way, we find out.
2) Why I didn't have a strong opinion that you are town: for one, your defense of RBD and calling both of us town-town felt off. I counterclaimed them and was leading a lynch on them which sort of ticked me off. Your reads didn't make sense until I saw your latest one which aligns with my thoughts pretty closely and makes me feel a lot better. When you wonder if your strong opinion was premature, you are basically saying that I should townread you or you will re-evaluate which you said isn't what you are doing.
3) I think you are town but not 100% obvtown. That's what I gather from all the meta I have on you. I have you as borderline "will bank the game on you town" vs "weaker townread" and you are pretty much in the middle. So, you are nowhere close to being a "null" read or someone I can't get a read on (or borderline between town/scum like Clyton was). My read on you wasn't this strong before your posted your latest reads-list which actually helped me see your stances a lot more clearly. Your read on me was pretty much the only thing that bugged me.
4) I don't lead lynches as scum in the manner in which I pushed Rancid. I don't because it doesn't serve my wincon when I am scum. You don't either. You know that that is a difference in your town and scum play and you don't try to fix it because burning your town meta to the ground and playing exactly like you would as town might hinder a scum agenda. I think you said it after that newbie game that I watched where you fooled Cabd. Anyways, if I were scum, I probably wouldn't have flipped out at Nacho for derailing the Rancid lynch and those are the kind of things I can't fake even if I am fully aware of them.
5) I disagree that you were as large a factor in how D1 resolved as much as me or Pie (Nacho derailed the Rancid lynch) but I am not saying that makes you scum. I'm saying if you had been, then I'd have read you as obvtown without reservations. As of now, I read you as just town.
6) I disagree that I've been undermining you in any way. In fact, I felt that you have been. I recall you saying something like "F-16 is bitching about a compromise lynch" on D1, I can go find the quote if you want. I also recall you in general undermining my reads. I'm trying to work through all that and still see that you could do it as town but it is been a frustrating endeavor that I needed to get through when you make posts like that.
7) I've done a lot to get you to vote Mastin or Rancid yesterday. I pulled every card in the book and tried to snag those votes and I rarely tunnel as hard as I did. If it wasn't the reigning Don Corleone of the site that I was tunneling, I feel pretty sure, I'd have gotten them lynched D1. I only stepped back D2 because I wanted to get on the same page as everyone else and help build a more cohesive town and bounce thoughts off of other players which I have been doing with you, Tammy, Brian, PV, and in the neighborhood with Pie, Desp, and Nacho.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Spoiler: Breakfast With Stalin
Edit: I misinterpreted the last point. I thought you were saying that I wasn't trying hard enough to get your vote on my scumreads but it turns out you are saying I am trying too hard which isn't a bad thing. But you say it is to the exclusion of everything else which isn't true. I probably spent more time delivering productive content into the thread, providing reads, questioning players, mediating, maybe leading lynches on scum (we'll have to see after Rancid flips), and most of all collaborating with other players and bouncing thoughts off of them so I disagree with almost everything you are saying.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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I agree that people form better reads through interactions and I actually value it. I generally mediate disputes only if I feel it has gotten out of hand or counterproductive or if someone asks my opinion on the player they are interacting with barring one or two exceptions. That's when I think it is best.
I am not trying to "bludgeon you" into agreeing with me. No idea where you get that from. I felt like you were trying to undermine my efforts D1 in securing a lynch. For instance, with the "bitching about compromise lynches" line instead of telling me that you disagree with a Rancid lynch but would compromise on Mastin so let's work together on securing that lynch instead of just letting the wagon build up and then voting anyone and everyone to save Rancid. I get that you gave reasons for it that I can see coming from town and that's partly why I am reading you as town but I feel like it could have been better and that's why I wasn't as sure of you being town.-
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@ Ffery, regarding AP or Mastin lynch, I am still divided. Mastin is the stronger scumread but I can't see AP-town, Mastin-scum at all. It just doesn't make any sort of sense. But, I also want to follow Penguin even though she just joined in because she is certain about Mastin being scum. I see Pieguy's certainty about Mastin being scum. I see BRO's meltdown yelling that Mastin is scum from amongst all that. I see Nacho's certainty that Mastin is scum. I feel like this should happen and I don't want to disrupt what is a great wagon that has taken days and weeks of effort and collaboration from the town to form. I don't know. If I feel confident that I could divert all the votes to AP and assure his lynch without risking a good wagon falling apart, I'd do it. I'd rather not. What are you thinking?
@ Penguin, looking forward to hearing your case. I'd also like to see where you are at with the rest of your reads. Have you and Tammy discussed BRO's meltdown post yet? I was hoping to hear your thoughts on that too whenever you are caught up and get around to it.-
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I'm thinking we should lynch Mastin.In post 5072, Red Gyarados wrote:We have also passed 200 pages. Can we lynch someone before we hit 300?-
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Just remembered why I wanted Mastin lynched that I forgot to add in earlier:
His reads changes are opportunistic as hell on a couple of levels:
1) It feels like he is trying too hard not to have "static" reads and is switching them around like crazy to feel as if they are changing.
2) The changes themselves feel opportunistic. He pushes PV but drops that suspicion when massive resistance occurs. He pushed Fox/Hound but switched after Beli gave him a load of crap for it. He pushed Ffery when some players were growing increasingly frustrated with trying to interact with her notably desp/pv/maybe me.
3) RG read actually doesn't make a ton of sense either since they were sitting on the Nacho wagon for a while and it doesn't look like scum v scum at all.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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So, you are saying you are the one that wants to lynch Mastin and Beli thinks he could be town?In post 5078, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:
I want to see what beli thinks when he catches up with the weekend's worth of posting. He and I have flipped positions in terms of willingness to lynch Mastin, but I think the differences are pretty mild. I know he'd compromise on AP as of a couple of days ago.In post 5076, CarbonFiber wrote:Also, @ ffery, I feel like he is a bigger threat than AP if they are scumpartners.
I think the lynch is basically sealed, though.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Okay. Well, yeah I was reading BRO as strongly town too so glad to see you agree with that as well.In post 5079, penguin_alien wrote:
Saw this in preview when posting my (partial) mastin thoughts. It's 3 AM, so this won't be comprehensive. Tammy and I haven't discussed it yet, except that she wants my read on BRO.In post 5069, CarbonFiber wrote:@ Penguin, looking forward to hearing your case. I'd also like to see where you are at with the rest of your reads. Have you and Tammy discussed BRO's meltdown post yet? I was hoping to hear your thoughts on that too whenever you are caught up and get around to it.
I'll say straight up that based on everything I know about BRO via playing Mafia with him here and offsite and hydraing, there's no way he fakes that. If (and that's a big if from reading 3020) he's scum, he's still genuinely upset at the way mastin is going after him. I will say that from my experience with scum-mastin, she can go after teammates in very unproductive ways (see: Open 541, where we almost blew LyLo because mastin thought it would be a good idea to push Mhork while ignoring all the planning in the scum QT).
HOWEVER.
Much as I know BRO shakes up his scum game and makes some strange plays as either alignment, this doesn't feel insincere at all, or to be more precise, coming from anything other than frustrated town. To be honest, I almost feel like just snipping this post out of my mental calculations, because it feels way intrusive for the game to have put him in a situation where he felt that he needed to share it. I won't, because it also feels wrong to disregard his forthrightness.
I'm sorry, there are some things in his ISO that I noticed while skimming for the 'meltdown' post (although I'm not really comfortable calling it a meltdown; heaven knows as someone who's dealt with issues that were hard to discuss I know exactly how painful it is to reveal that stuff, and calling it a meltdown feels condescending, to be frank) that made me think he could be scum and some things that made me think town. My very brief overall impression is that BRO came into the game excited about the player list and anticipating a fun game. There's some banter-type stuff that feels alignment-independent and so in my paranoia might make me think scum-BRO. But as he keeps posting, there's super-genuine sounding posts AND, more importantly, posts that read like the insightful BRO I'm used to watching work in-hydra when I darn well know his alignment.
I'm on the verge of conking out, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where I am. I may not be good at reading BRO as a mafia player, but I'd like to think I have a sense of his personality well enough that I know him hitting a limit wasn't staged. Maybe I'm presuming too much, given that we're more Mafia friends than 'dish about life' friends, but that's how my brain works. I'll read the other 300+ posts from the JSU hydra after I get some sleep and try to get a sense of their alignment here.
Because, F-16, as much as I respect your play and would like to work with you if you're town here, if we hadn't misread BRO in Wicked I'd have neighborized him over you-Ghatokaca in a heartbeat, and I know town-BRO can game-solve like a maniac.
P-edit: I'm sorry, I can't react to everything that's elapsed since I started writing this up...tomorrow.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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I was eagerly waiting for the day to start.
First off, sorry Mastin and Rancid if you are watching from the dead thread. My read on both of you guys was absolute crap. I know you probably hate me but I'll do the best to make it up to you and I want you to be able to chalk up another win. Mastin especially. You did everything you could. You left no stone unturned in trying to communicate with the town. More at endgame.
I have a few thoughts but I want answers to the following questions first:
AngryPidgeon, who did you investigate today and what were your results?
Penguin_Alien, we need to talk. It'll be awesome if you can provide your reads and catchup with the game. I want to hear your updated reads on everyone in the game, especially AP.
Tammy, why did you hammer AP so quickly when there were still a couple of days to deadline. It seems unlike you to vote before utilizing every second of the deadline clock. You waffled and waffled and waffled on Mastin and when he was brought to L-1, you checked with Breakfast, wanted the hammer, and hammered instantly. I want to see where you are coming from here.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Also, I strongly suspect Nacho to be scum.
Pie and I talked a lot in the neighborhood. We discussed reads, commiserated about our horribad reads on Mastin and Rancid, bounced thoughts off of each other about all living players and made some progress on solving the game. I even told Pie it was like having a faux-hydra partner as long as FourTrouble had been checked out. Speaking of which, he says he will be back soon now that his finals are over.
I suspect that someone in the neighborhood knew this and wanted to eliminate Pie because he was so useful to the town. And that someone I strongly believe is Nacho.
I asked Nacho for his reads and he sort of ignored me while responding to other non game relevant stuff (me apologizing to him for bringing up Touhou as well as venting at him) but he didn't respond to my questions about reads.
Speaking of which, ffery, you were right about Rancid all along! I should have listened to you on them.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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WHat the fuck tammy!In post 5116, Titan wrote:It's nice to know my one and only certain town read is town, and not dead so thank iomedae for that!
So, you guys gonna come out of the neighborhood now and stop circle jerking about how right you are. I still feel like there's scum in that neighborhood.
Penguins pretty much going to bat for bro being town, depending on how he plays it today I guess, but she's talking me down fro
M my des/bro bloodthirst so it's up t you boys. Do something!
VOTE: carbon fiber
I'll answer you when I'm at my computer.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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I want to explain why Titan is scum but I don;t hgave it in me. I can't do it. I thought I coulsd calm down in a bit but my heart is racing. I am in a computer lab right now eagerly awaitun for the game to start.
I talked in the neighborhood about how I thought the scum was PA/AP/NAcho/Tammy.
I told Nacho to bring it. I told him to tell Tammy in the scum QT to attack me (As a jkoke). I did not expect that at all. I reeally didn't
I messed shit up this game so badly. I let TAmy set me up forgfettng lynched after pushing so hard on Mastin and Rancid.
Mffin is probably laighing in the scum QT.
Nati as well. They warned me over and over not to collaborate with Tammy so mucj,.
I just went to restroom and tried to calm down and think of all the things why I thought Titan was scum but my mingf id blank I can't thing ruight now.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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BULLSHIT. THAT's YOUR REACTION. I WAS DAMN NEAR BREAKING DOWN ABOUT THIS AND YOU JUST TOLD ME THAT I WAS BULLSHITTING. THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY YOU ARE TOWN.In post 5144, Titan wrote:In post 5139, CarbonFiber wrote:I want to explain why Titan is scum but I don;t hgave it in me. I can't do it. I thought I coulsd calm down in a bit but my heart is racing. I am in a computer lab right now eagerly awaitun for the game to start.
I talked in the neighborhood about how I thought the scum was PA/AP/NAcho/Tammy.
I told Nacho to bring it. I told him to tell Tammy in the scum QT to attack me (As a jkoke). I did not expect that at all. I reeally didn't
I messed shit up this game so badly. I let TAmy set me up forgfettng lynched after pushing so hard on Mastin and Rancid.
Mffin is probably laighing in the scum QT.
Nati as well. They warned me over and over not to collaborate with Tammy so mucj,.
I just went to restroom and tried to calm down and think of all the things why I thought Titan was scum but my mingf id blank I can't thing ruight now.
This is fucking bullshit. On the off chance you're town and actually think there's a snails chance I'm scum, you should give up playing mafia.
Can you read the neighborhood topics you set up?-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Holy crap, you actually believe this? You actually think that I'd set you up - you who is unlynchable when town. DO you think I am a fucking MORON.In post 5150, Titan wrote:In post 5147, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Tammy why did you vote CF?
Because he started setting me up fr the hammer in his first post f the day.-
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I didn't set you up. I asked you about it. I asked you why you hammered. It seemed odd to me.In post 5154, Titan wrote:Why'd you start setting me up for the hammer in your first post?
This entire game, you were fucking with me. Everytime I ask you a question, you yell at me and tell me I'm not seeing where you are coming from. You've been making shit pushes all game. JSU? PV? Like what the actual fuck? They are town, town, town, town, town, and there is no way you can't see it unless you are fucking deluded. You are not.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Okay, I am a little calmer now. I'll explain what I thought would happen and what actually hapenned:In post 5164, AngryPidgeon wrote:
You really think NAcho and Tammy are scum together and Nacho told Tammy to push you? Why would NAcho have to be involved in Tammy's decision to push you (assuming she is scum)?In post 5139, CarbonFiber wrote:I told Nacho to bring it. I told him to tell Tammy in the scum QT to attack me (As a jkoke). I did not expect that at all. I reeally didn't
F-16: Why did you not vote at all Yesterday? IIRC, you never voted even once despite tryingto get mastin lynched from the sidelines pretty much all Day. Why no vote ever?In post 5150, Titan wrote:Because he started setting me up fr the hammer in his first post f the day.
I suspected the scumteam to be you, Penguin, Nacho, and Tammy.
I didn't expect Tammy to push me if she was scum at all. I expected her to continue to push BRO. I expected you to push me. You can read BRO 100% Pushing BRO might as well be a scumclaim. It is the same for Tammy and me. Neither of us failed to read each other correctly before.
So, you push me, Tammy pushes BRO-Desp. That's what I assumed the scumplan was. I expected to come into the game to see you vote me. I was ready for it. What I didn't expect was for Tammy to push me.
I can handle pushes from people that know me before. Nacho tried pushing me once in Micro 252, read it if you want. I responded fairly calmly and was able to get one of his scumbuddies lynched. The push went nowhere. I expected to be able to handle Nacho pushing me again. I told him to push me. I told him to show me that he was scum and to scumclaim to me if he was in jest. I even put up a show about how I am ready for him and told him to bring it on so I could see him for the scum he was.
What I didn't expect was for Tammy to open up with a vote on me. I was already feeling like absolute crap about pushing Mastin and Muffin-Nati's lynches and being a dick to ffery about how they were obvscum. I was about this close to breaking down completely. I did not expect her to vote me at all.
Her reaction is a total scumclaim after I responded to it. She didn't even ask me if I was okay although you did. I've played many more games with Tammy than I have with you. I've interacted with her a lot more than I have interacted with you. Heck, you don't even like me. And the only person who asked me if I was all right was you. Tammy just ignored it and continued attacking me which is as good as a scumclaim. As to why she wouldn't push me on her own, it is because she can read me and I can read her. She wouldn't push me unless she was sure she would win. And at this point, I think she knows that she would win. Pushing me is basically claiming scum to me.
Why I didn't vote yesterday: I was going to vote sometime before deadline. There weren't enough fucking spots on the wagon. Look at who didn't vote Mastin. Look at the non-voters. All these people wanted to vote but it only took 8 to lynch.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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I didn't taunt Nacho about it. I challenged him. He pushed me when he was scum before and I knew what to expect.In post 5183, AngryPidgeon wrote:
: |In post 5176, Nachomamma8 wrote:He said maybe we were scum together and we were going to blow our cover and mislynch him today
.....kay....In post 5178, Nachomamma8 wrote:And then he freaked the fuck out
Fucking. There have been way too many meltdowns in this game and its all starting to blur together in the 'fuck it' part of my head.
Im not sure if him reportedly expecting this treachery from Tammy/Nacho makes the emotion make more sense "I knew this would happen!!" or not. My gut is really at ends with it since if he expected it (and apparently even taunted NAcho about it), why is he so emotional over it actually going down. Or maybe its something more specific that bothers me. Like hes frustrated, but more in a "I give up" when I'd expect more anger or raging? I'm really over trying to understand all the emotions in this game at this juncture :/-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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NO, they are happy because they wanted to see me punished in some way for pushing the crap out of them. They don't want town to win anymore because of me.In post 5191, Nachomamma8 wrote:
I can't imagine they're actually happy to see the town driving themselves into a hole because people are making irrational pushes. I'm sure pie's pissed that you're making an irrational push on Tammy and Tammy's making an irrational push on you. I'm sure Mastin isn't happy that you're repeating old mistakes. I'm sure even LORD BUSINESS doesn't want to see this happening for the third day in a row.In post 5186, CarbonFiber wrote:I can't imagine how happy zMuffin and Nati are to see this. I feel so sorry and feel like crap for pushing them.
I know they were right all along. Nati called Tammy scum. Muffin called AP scum.
I KNEW Tammy was scum all along at some deep level and was partly kidding myself into townreading her because I didn't want to scumread anyone I like playing with. I never want to scumread you, and I never want to scumread Tammy.
Like this was the first game ever that I came into the game being unsure of Tammy as opposed to calling her obvtown. That's when I should have known. That was the differentiator between her town and scum games.
I spent HOURS reading every page of Stacking the Deck front to back and back to front. I read every word she wrote in the game. I didn't even ISO. I read it in context.
I watched as you took Syr down and how she went on to win the game. Her scumgame parallels yours and is truly spectacular to watch.-
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Point out a game where you non-RVS voted me ever before?In post 5207, Titan wrote:I'm not the running around calling Cassandra on him.
Is it wrong I'm feeling slightly amused that someone is declaring KNOWLEDGE I'm scum when I'm as town as I've ever been.
I mean for someone so attuned to my meta, it seems extraordinarily unlikely I'd get paranoid about someone over night. Shit how many times have I paranoid voted someone, then talked it out. For someone who knows I get paranoid?-
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WHAT?In post 5212, Nachomamma8 wrote:Aka I'm pretty sure F-16 is half me, half you.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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I am not the one voting you, you are.In post 5219, Titan wrote:In post 5209, CarbonFiber wrote:
Point out a game where you non-RVS voted me ever before?In post 5207, Titan wrote:I'm not the running around calling Cassandra on him.
Is it wrong I'm feeling slightly amused that someone is declaring KNOWLEDGE I'm scum when I'm as town as I've ever been.
I mean for someone so attuned to my meta, it seems extraordinarily unlikely I'd get paranoid about someone over night. Shit how many times have I paranoid voted someone, then talked it out. For someone who knows I get paranoid?
Point out a game where I was saying there was scum in your neighborhood, haven't had you strong town, and you looked like you were setting me up for something that I can't even imagine coming from scum you.
And just so you know this oh I knew it I knew it is completely wrong.
Like seriously, if you actually think I'm scum here, you've definitely lost the right to read me.
And nacho shut up. Yes, I'm suspicious but I'm hella far from ready to roast him over a pit.
What the hell was up with the whole "he's not playing like AoT or Wicked but still could be scum because Nacho showed him shit?"
Nacho and I were hydra'ing in your modded game. It is not like we went to a far-off island where he taught me ninja tricks or something. It all happened right under your nose. You still said I was bad as scum in the dead QT while you watched. Like seriously, what did you expect that I supposedly learned that I didn't show right in your game?-
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I personally would have hammered. I didn't expect you to hammer because it's not what you do. You wait and wait and wait until the very last second before you make a decision.In post 5140, Titan wrote:I can't believe you of all people are asking me about that hammer. It was two days until deadline. The lynch wasn't going anywhere else. The games over 290 pages long, and the most of the discussion has been after mastin and then mastin making a fucktin of walls tha weren't giving anyone a clear read on him except more suspicions. What the hell do you think was going to happen in two days especially with the only person you trust to run the town and des/bro REFUSING to d anything else besides sit in that fucking neighborhood.
It looked like you didn't want the lynch to switch to AP and wanted to grab this lynch while you can and also not let Mastin react to your vote on him.
Why did you never, ever, ever vote for days and days and as soon as he was brought to L-1, immediately claimed the hammer?-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Do you actually still think I'm scum at this point, like really?In post 5230, Titan wrote:In post 5223, Nachomamma8 wrote:You don't have to bully me
I've never?
Why are you only trying to tell me I'm wrong about falcon? I'm the one with suspicions and paranoia especially based on him setting me up for that hammer, which oh my gods was a mercy killing and the best damn thing for town at that point. I mean holy fuck.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Then why the fuck are you not reading my posts where I explained to you why I asked that question?In post 5243, Titan wrote:In post 5233, CarbonFiber wrote:
I personally would have hammered. I didn't expect you to hammer because it's not what you do. You wait and wait and wait until the very last second before you make a decision.In post 5140, Titan wrote:I can't believe you of all people are asking me about that hammer. It was two days until deadline. The lynch wasn't going anywhere else. The games over 290 pages long, and the most of the discussion has been after mastin and then mastin making a fucktin of walls tha weren't giving anyone a clear read on him except more suspicions. What the hell do you think was going to happen in two days especially with the only person you trust to run the town and des/bro REFUSING to d anything else besides sit in that fucking neighborhood.
It looked like you didn't want the lynch to switch to AP and wanted to grab this lynch while you can and also not let Mastin react to your vote on him.
Why did you never, ever, ever vote for days and days and as soon as he was brought to L-1, immediately claimed the hammer?
Um yeah I do. I once spent an entire game doing nothing but hammering. I think it's obvious if you read my posts, and my answer to this already. Was anything going anywhere? Would there have been another lynch? I was sick as shit and couldn't out up with another 50 pages of that crap. I was hoping that in the end he was scum and I'd get to hammer the scum who came after me early day one for bullshit. And holy shit I do hammer. Go read pick your power that I played with nacho. It's the one I linked that I said I wasn't so proud of. I hammered well before deadline when it was clear there would be nothing else. Someone I thought was town even.
For someone certain of my meta you sure are getting things wrong here. I just can't figure out why you of all people came after me about the hammer.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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Your pushes this whole game have been absolute shit Tammy. (And yes Mastin, Muffin, Nati I know this applies to me as well)
I posted a long ass wall explaining to you why BRO and Desp were town. You ignored it completely and continuous pushed them even though their alignment is obvious as fuck to anyone with two brain cells.
You kept pushing PV because he used old meta on you. Bullshit. You didn't stop for one second to consider why the fuck scum-PV would even bother pushing you.
You pushed Pie when he was the towniest he has ever been in his entire life of playing mafia.
Now you are voting me and the way you are attacking me still feels like you are not even trying to figure me out but just trying to justify your push and make yourself look good.
You "lean town" on Penguin which is absolute bullshit. Penguin has been scum, scum, scum. I analyzed her posts in the neihghborhood. Her push on Mastin was fake. Her role is not fucking town. There is not a bodyguard, bulletproof, commuter, and watcher in the same game. Her role if fake. Her push is fake. Her interactions with me fit scum-Penguin to a T.
You ignored her, you claim you can't get a read on AP. And you tunnel PV? and BRO-Desp and me? You are a better player than this as town.-
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CarbonFiber Mafia Scum
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If there is scum in the neighborhood, it is probably Nacho.In post 5116, Titan wrote:It's nice to know my one and only certain town read is town, and not dead so thank iomedae for that!
So, you guys gonna come out of the neighborhood now and stop circle jerking about how right you are. I still feel like there's scum in that neighborhood.
Penguins pretty much going to bat for bro being town, depending on how he plays it today I guess, but she's talking me down fro
M my des/bro bloodthirst so it's up t you boys. Do something!
VOTE: carbon fiber
I'll answer you when I'm at my computer.
I don't trust Penguin at all and I think she's scum defending town.-
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Any of which three?In post 5132, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I don't trust any of the three. :/-
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You shouldn't have claimed. Scum know to roleblock you now but at least that's one additional person we can eliminate as being scum.In post 5138, PeregrineV wrote:Dang, I was hoping for a scumflip.
I am Yuri Lowell, Town Lone Wolf (modified vig), Tales of Vesperia (you can guess the modification). I didn't shoot last night because I wanted to see Rancid's flip. I shot him night1 because he was total scum (even if he flipped green).
Going home, but want that out there for discussion. I'll try to check in tonight.
Breakfast is probtown but I don't trust AP obviously so I'm not buying the "result."-
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Okay. I didn't read this post earlier but it makes more sense to vote me once I questioned you about it.In post 5140, Titan wrote:I can't believe you of all people are asking me about that hammer. It was two days until deadline. The lynch wasn't going anywhere else. The games over 290 pages long, and the most of the discussion has been after mastin and then mastin making a fucktin of walls tha weren't giving anyone a clear read on him except more suspicions. What the hell do you think was going to happen in two days especially with the only person you trust to run the town and des/bro REFUSING to d anything else besides sit in that fucking neighborhood.
I was tired. I'd had enough. The distraction wasn't going to end and on top of that I'm fucking sick as shit and didn't have the patience for another 50 pages of the same damn thing.
I thought he might be scum and if you read any of m posts you'd know that I was a the pit that I thought his lynch would be the best thing regardless.
And your asking me why I hammered?
Spoiler: why I hammered