Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Mafia - Game Over

[DeasVail]

thats dumb.

Really? I think it's pretty cool actually.

VOTE: Sakura

Is this vote serious or random?

Vote: DrDolittle

I think he's scum.

[DeasVail]

Hmm, Matias is kind of :/ too, but I'll stick with Dolittle.

[DeasVail]

fyi matias is town.

Why? He gets better later on, but I don't get having a townread on him at this point.

I don't understand your scumread on Beli either.

~~

Why I think DrDolittle is scum:

66 strongly suggests that he has a scumread on Sakura/is pretty invested in the wagon, and that his vote in 19 was serious. What I'm wondering though is why he didn't share his reasoning for Sakura being scum. If town are making a serious vote during what is still semi-RVS, they want to show everyone how smart they are and share their reasoning! Despite the resistance to Sakura-scum, he doesn't get very involved in trying to read her or gathering support (Matias and kanye's play around Sakura appears a lot more genuine by comparison). While I do have doubts, I don't think his play is particularly unlikely to come from scum so far either so I'm pretty happy with my vote here.

Other things:

I don't see Sakura as particularly likely scum. There are a fair few people I'd rather vote for than her. The mastin wagon is ok, but again, I'm not really feeling it.

[DeasVail]

Pie, what do you think of 20?

[DeasVail]

Why I think DrDolittle is scum:

66 strongly suggests that he has a scumread on Sakura/is pretty invested in the wagon, and that his vote in 19 was serious. What I'm wondering though is why he didn't share his reasoning for Sakura being scum. If town are making a serious vote during what is still semi-RVS, they want to show everyone how smart they are and share their reasoning! Despite the resistance to Sakura-scum, he doesn't get very involved in trying to read her or gathering support (Matias and kanye's play around Sakura appears a lot more genuine by comparison). While I do have doubts, I don't think his play is particularly unlikely to come from scum so far either so I'm pretty happy with my vote here.

Wow. So. Right.
Are you saying you somehow reverse-telegraphed your scumread on dolittle, which you first mentioned when his only post was a naked vote?
Didn't I do exactly the same thing as him, in naked voting and then reaffirming that he was a choice vote?

What do you think of mastin?

I'll say more after Dolittle next posts, but that was the best thing I could think of to attack from Page 1. If it was a random vote, then I wouldn't have considered it scummy, but if it was serious then him not saying it was serious/not providing any reasoning just makes it do nothing at all. If he had provided reasoning in his next few posts, then I would have been more ok with it, but with him obviously very much liking a Sakura vote combined with talk of white-knighting Sakura, the lack of any content behind his Sakura scumread strengthens my scumread on Dolittle.

Well at the time I just thought Dolittle was more scummy than you so I pushed him, but looking back I do think that the timing of your vote is less likely to be scummy (it's a time that I think would feel more out of place to scum) and something that again I don't really want to say before Dolittle posts, so I could see you being town and him scum (especially since I have a townread on you now).

Mastin for me is pretty much what I said before. I don't have a townread on him, but he's not someone I would want to wagon at the moment.

[DeasVail]

Uhhhh? I don't know what to think. Anyway, I think I had good reason to withhold my reasoning because sometimes people (and even I admittedly) like to vote first and then say why a bit later, so if he'd done that, well... I'd have an easier time reading him at least.

Talah, why did you vote for DrDolittle?

[DeasVail]

Ok yeah, I don't feel comfortable with this anymore. His play here is really weird compared to previous games, but in a way that's a towntell and I feel like I'm just forcing the scumread at this point.

Unvote: DrDolittle

I don't have anyone in mind as a scumread right now, and I'm going to be out for a fair bit of the day, so I'll see if anything pops out at me when I get back.

[DeasVail]

Talah, did you look at DrDolittle's previous games?

Ok so Kanye, Deaznuts, Mastin, Nat town. You guys wanna work together?

I'm not sure what this would involve, but ok! Mastin is still kind of ehhhh for me and I feel like it's excluding other people that are pretty town, but otherwise I'm fine with it. Maybe we can have code names! (Although I don't know what to think of Deaznuts )

Regarding Talah, I've actually really liked his/her play so far and think it's a level beyond what scum would bother doing (referring in particular to the DrDolittle vote and questioning of me here). I can't really understand your scumread at the moment.

Ok yeah, I don't feel comfortable with this anymore. His play here is really weird compared to previous games, but in a way that's a towntell and I feel like I'm just forcing the scumread at this point.

Unvote: DrDolittle

I don't have anyone in mind as a scumread right now, and I'm going to be out for a fair bit of the day, so I'll see if anything pops out at me when I get back.

You look extremely skittish.

Do you feel like you're supposed to have a super strong scum read right now? I certainly don't have anything major (other than Sakura, and that's on the coattails of my RVS phase) and I'm not fretting about it.

It doesn't have to be strong at all, but no one has anything that makes me excited at all about pressuring them and it's become a concerning trend for me lately.

Nachokoopa, I didn't think he was scummy and had more exciting options. My standards are probably lower now and I may consider it. I'll get back to you!

Well we didn't want you anyway kanye!

~~

Ok Nacho, do you think Mastin would really be this minimal as scum? I know that if I were to experiment with something like that I'd make sure to do it with a town game and would just do standard 'look as town as I can' as scum and I suspect Mastin would feel the same way.

Vote: Majiffy

This is the best I can think of right now.

[DeasVail]

Well I'm in the town bloc and you're not so...

Seriously though, well actually I don't know what to say. I guess I wish you didn't?

[DeasVail]

That first line should probably have a with it.

[DeasVail]

Ok then.

PEdit: Ok then!

Yeah, I don't know. Probably not scum though?

[DeasVail]

I liked the other stuff though, and 168 is very entertaining if nothing else.

PEdit: I often don't meta people because it just makes me confused, but I'm finding it hard to see DrDolittle as scum considering his play here and his play in other games. Why is it not a problem for you?

[DeasVail]

Anger it up, angrykanye.

I don't "do" meta unless it's shoved in my face and haven't played with Doolittle before.

Oh, I misunderstood, but yeah, I'm usually the same, but essentially he's diverting from both his town and scum meta so much here that I'm more inclined to think town (because scum often try to replicate previous town meta rather than change their play).

[DeasVail]

I think both you and wayne are town.

[DeasVail]

Nacho, I don't have a problem with him announcing it beforehand (he did it in Pikmin and actually put much more effort into explaining it there). You have a point about the Pikmin thing and my townread isn't super strong, but I still think he's more likely to stick to what he's comfortable with as scum.

Talah, you are great (and if you're scum, well... even moreso). Don't listen to the haters.

Pie, I think Matias is town.

So, the more I think about it, the more I love the majiffy wagon. He's generally quite a chatty guy, so his lack of posting anything here seems off. And considering this, I think that the RVS thing is just a really bad excuse, especially since a quick look at the game can determine whether or not we're still in RVS. So basically I think he's scum avoiding the game.

[DeasVail]

I didn't mean you, I meant all the elitist people going all 'wah wah you don't play the way we play so we don't like you'. It's silly.

But anyway, I don't really think she's trying to pit people against each other. The only possibly weird thing was the scumread on DrDolittle, but the Matias against Mastin thing wasn't ever actually going to pit Matias and Mastin, and even the others I don't think you'd actually expect to work in pitting people against each other, so I don't think there's much motivation for scum to try it. Town usually attack each other easily enough on their own anyway. The most important thing is that I think talah's really town in other ways, so I don't think something that's a mild scumtell at best really matters much.

[DeasVail]

Actually, I'm looking to abandon this vote on waynegg and I was thinking of asking Nati if he would be willing to discuss/vote together for a bit to get a read on him. I'm wondering now if you'd be interested in playing like that for a bit too.

I was going to suggest a couple of options - Beli, mastin, and Majiffy.

That sounds fine to me. I definitely prefer Majiffy of those three though.

[DeasVail]

would like to know reasons for a majiffy vote other than the fact that he hasn't posted, but I agree with people that he should actually join the game because his 3 posts are lame and say nothing of the game themselves.

votes probably will get him to step it up. as of this point even if we do lynch him its not like he helped any. UNVOTE:

VOTE: majiffy

I'm pretty sure I gave my reason in a recent post.

[DeasVail]

To those that seem to think otherwise, the Majiffy wagon was never, at least for me, about lack of activity, but the really awkward reason given for not posting. If he's busy as town he'll say he's busy, not make up something about RVS, which is still what I suspect he's done. To someone who's actually read my post, this should be obvious, so I think that Majiffy claiming that the wagon on him is about a lack of posts, when I think he would notice that there were actual reasons for it from at least Talah and myself, is scummy. I don't like the continued justification for it in 275 either.

I've actually got a weak townread on Nacho, and I don't think I've ever strongly townread him at this stage of the game, so I'm ok with him so far.

[DeasVail]

Majiffy:

-I'm pretty sure not posting because of RVS was the implication though? Not posting at all, and then asking 'have we left RVS yet?' before proceeding to complain about it pretty strongly suggests that you couldn't really be bothered with RVS so are waiting until it's over. For some reason I did think that you had specifically said it though, so I'll admit that it's possible that you were just asking for some other reason.
-The justification was that when you posted the post mentioned above, it was still RVS, and I think it pretty obviously wasn't.

-I like buddying/saying what I think when it's something nice to say, and I'm not going to stop just because some people seem to think it's a scumtell. More strange is the fact that you haven't complained about my buddying to Talah. I think that's much more pronounced than what is in 27?

AGar, if you think I'm wrong, please at least say why.

[DeasVail]

-I'm pretty sure not posting because of RVS was the implication though? Not posting at all, and then asking 'have we left RVS yet?' before proceeding to complain about it pretty strongly suggests that you couldn't really be bothered with RVS so are waiting until it's over.

You know what they say about assuming...

For some reason I did think that you had specifically said it though, so I'll admit that it's possible that you were just asking for some other reason.

Such as, I think RVS is dumb and generally useless to the gamestate yet people continue to insist on it every fucking game?

That might be a reason. Hey, whatdyaknow.

-The justification was that when you posted the post mentioned above, it was still RVS, and I think it pretty obviously wasn't.

You're still not reading my posts.

-I like buddying/saying what I think when it's something nice to say, and I'm not going to stop just because some people seem to think it's a scumtell.

It's about

how

you say it.

More strange is the fact that you haven't complained about my buddying to Talah. I think that's much more pronounced than what is in 27?

Are you admitting to scum buddying then?

Ok, here's what I don't understand. It was obvious from your post that you hate RVS, yes, but it's pretty easy to work out whether we're in RVS or not by just reading the posts (and there were pretty real reasons for most of the votes at the time so I'm pretty sure it was clear that we were), so it makes more sense to me that it was being used for some kind of purpose rather than asking a question that you could easily answer yourself, or a random comment that was only relevant several pages before.

I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to take, 'It should be noted that when I made this post, you still hadn't gotten out of aforementioned stage.' Please enlighten me.

So first I'm scum for buddying and now I'm scum for

how

I'm buddying. Awesome! (In case you didn't get it, I don't believe it)

Please just tell me why you didn't think my buddying of talah was worth mentioning.

~~

AGar, if you think I'm wrong, please at least say why.

1) You're trying to project your reasoning onto the rest of the Majiffy wagon.
1A) Half the wagon didn't have a god damned reason to vote Majiffy
1B) I don't feel Majiffy ever "made anything up" to avoid posting instead of saying busy.

2) I don't think you actually believe that Majiffy "made up a reason" for not posting content. He was pretty straightforward in that he felt that we weren't at a point worth putting in the effort, and he's backed that up since. Whether that's a smart play or not is up for debate, whether that's what actually happened or not isn't. You're grasping for straws to try and stretch out a wagon that, quite frankly, is shit and should be dead by now.

1) No, I think that the 'at least for me' shows that I wasn't.

2) I'm not sure why he said what he did about RVS now. Obviously he's not scum avoiding the thread, so that goes out the window, but I feel there are a few ways in which he hasn't been genuine. My scumread on Majiffy is quite all over the place right now though, but I still think he's the best bet for scum, if that makes any sense.

Do you have a townread on Majiffy?
And, if you don't think I believe what I'm saying, why aren't you voting for me?

[DeasVail]

I don't like 350 much at all actually.

Nacho, please don't leave me all alone on this Majiffy wagon.

[DeasVail]

Sorry about being away for a while guys.

I'm sorry about not joining you on Sakura, talah. I actually forgot about it, but I'd rather not move off Majiffy at this time.

Nacho, does Mac ever not do this? I'm not really up to trying to find my past games with him right now, but this doesn't deviate from my general impression of him.

~~

Townreads:

kanyeknowsbest
Belisarius
waynegg
AGar
leviathan93
talah
Natirasha
mastin2

Town with reservations:

DrDolittle
Pieguyn
PeregrineV
NachoKoopa
Matias

Leftover:

Kise
Empking
Majiffy
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Mac
Kalimar

~~

I'm worried about the leftover group being so small, but I feel pretty good about the townreads, and I think I'm actually being conservative with them if anything. A couple from the weak town group could probably even be in the higher one.

Things of note:

I agree with what Nacho (I think?) said about Belisarius not claiming the multiball thing as scum. It's just such an awkward thing for scum to do that I really think they'd avoid it. I also think his early game posting is pretty natural and not really caring about what people think of him.

Pie, look at AGar as scum in this game. Is it possible that their alignments are the same? I really don't think so.

Favoured targets at the moment would probably be Sakura and Majiffy. I don't know how to describe Sakura, but she just feels flat to me and I don't get the impression that she's actually scumhunting. Although I completely disagree with wayne's scumread on talah, I know he's kind of weird sometimes (I love you wayne!) and he seems to believe it, but just don't feel that Sakura does? I don't know.

The main person I want to talk to you about though is Majiffy! Don't let those stylish eyebrows and inquisitive bedroom eyes deceive you. They are actually a distraction from the headset used to communicate with his buddies in broad daylight! Didn't notice it before? Well now that I've discovered his mastermind plan, you shall be in the dark no longer! If that's not enough for you though:

The general thing I've been finding about Majiffy is that whenever someone says something possibly incriminating about him, he dismisses it and insists that it can't be the case, and this has happened to the extent where I actually think it's very likely that he's not being genuine.

The first thing that comes to mind is my mention of the fact that I buddied talah much more in response to Majiffy finding me scummy for buddying Natirasha. The fact that he did this in the first place was odd, possibly slightly scummy, but how he responds to it is much more scummy. First, in 336, he makes this comment about me admitting to being scum buddying, ignoring the possible conflict that I present. And when I actually properly confront him about it, in 363 he says that it wasn't worth noticing (he's calling me scum for buddying and what I said to talah was as buddy-buddy as buddying gets, so of course it was worth noticing if he considers it a scumtell). I feel that town here would have some sort of reason for thinking my buddying of talah was irrelevant (I have no idea what though), or would say something along the lines of 'hey! you're scum for that too!', while I think this would be awkward for scum. I don't like the comment afterwards either, but I'm not sure if that's scummy or just me.

Similar to this is his response to my 303, using the fact that my reason sucked as a reason for why he thought that people were voting him for his lack of posts. Much more likely things imo would be that he just looked at the vote count and didn't read reasons for the votes, or just skimmed or something, but if town thinks that someone's reason sucked, they say it sucked, so this would not be a reason why someone would act confused as to why they were being voted for.

I also think the part about how I'm buddying being a scumtell is just a bad attempt to make his scumread more sophisticated.

PEdit: No tammy.

[DeasVail]

Explain Sakura please.

If the answer is null, explain kayne if you would.

I have misgivings over the way you drummed on and on about Majiffy RVS tell. I'm thinkin you soft-attacked him.

I don't think I can say more about Sakura than I already have. Nothing outright scummy, but her posting just falls flat for me. She seemed much more town where I saw her previously.

I think when kanye's scum he doesn't appear very town, whereas here he's pretty actively involved in scumhunting and what I'd expect from town-kanye.

I'm not sure what you mean by soft-attacked, but it's probably what I was doing? Before now, I haven't had the confidence in him being scum to make a case of sorts (and I'm still not all that confident but sshh).

Love you too Deas!

Hey! How are you town reading Talah and Doolittle?

It's mostly already been explained, but talah because she is doing cool things to update her reads and figure people out, and I think it's much more effort to go to than scum would be bothered doing. I also agree with what others are saying about new scum likely to be more cautious than claiming 1-shot tracker and all that. Overall, her posting seems pretty genuine.

DrDolittle is a much weaker read, and still almost completely based on what I mentioned before about being very different from his previous games. I thought that 350 wasn't so good though because obviously those townreads that he mentioned had no relevance to talah's actual point, so he's belittling talah's argument with something that isn't related to the point at all. This is a pretty weak thing though, so I'm still putting him as town, just more concerned about him than the others.

[DeasVail]

Talah:

Kanye isn't my strongest townread (I go through players by the list on the first page), and I also can't really explain it as well as I'd like for ~reasons~, so you'll just have to have that. Looking over things again, I think I may have been a bit complacent with the read there, but I still feel he's town.

I'd much rather lynch Majiffy than Sakura at this stage, but apart from Majiffy she's the only non-townread that I'd feel alright about lynching. The others either haven't really posted enough or are people I think would be more easily read later, and with all my townreads, I think a non-townread has a decent chance of being scum anyway.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't just focusing on the RVS thing, but I agree that I probably paid too much attention to it. However, even though I've had my vote on Majiffy for a while, I have been considering other options. I just still think that Majiffy is the best.

I really hate this buddying thing. First, please don't think that I'm just saying things to make people townread me because even when I'm scum I think I only ever 'buddy' when I actually like someone's play/find someone entertaining etc. But I'm town here too, so I feel like there just really shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah, I'm not so sure on DrDolittle, and his future posting will probably affect things, but I'm still not sure why he'd be so different from usual (both town and scumplay for him) as scum.

Wayne, I go after town all the time. Not everyone who suspects me will be scum. I remember you quoted that line of questioning of talah's about my vote on DrDolittle and I actually thought that was well thought out and the kind of thing I could see myself pushing on. I just really struggle to see talah as scum this game (the bulletproof lynchproof strongman godfather might have something to do with it though).

[DeasVail]

And then to claim it D1 with like no provocation? Over eager scum, much?

I don't really think this is a thing though? I think there's a difference between claiming on Day 3, and claiming on Day 1 too.

I could be wrong on talah, but I'm more confident in my townread there than I usually am with reads in general, so it would take a lot for me to be convinced otherwise. I know I'm not scum though, so I would like it if you stopped thinking it.

[DeasVail]

that's a really weak argument, he only had 10 posts that game and he replaced out. = = I can see he was acting different, but how can you be sure it was based off alignment and not inactivity?
also why are you defending him? = =

I know he only had 10 posts, but how he's going about things while he is there is just completely different from here. And I'm defending him because I think he's town...

[DeasVail]

PEdit: No tammy.

Why are you giving me a frownie face when you have me in your leftover pile?

You either think I'm scum or are scum. Either is pretty saddening.

Townreads:

Belisarius
AGar
leviathan93

Town with reservations:

DrDolittle
PeregrineV
NachoKoopa

Oh wait forgot. Can you explain these of your town reads?

I've already explained Beli and Dolittle. (Beli probably doesn't care what people think of him and Dolittle is not playing how he usually does either as town or scum, so is more likely town but I don't know)

AGar's play this game is either really genuine or really forced. How robotic he was in La-La Land makes me strongly lean towards genuine.

leviathan... I don't know what to say except that I think he's really genuine. If he's in danger of being lynched I'll make it sound smarter though!

PV is more actively involved in scumhunting than I think he would be as scum, and there a few posts that give me a weak town feel, where with PV-scum recently I haven't found him town at all.

With Nacho(Koopa) the biggest reason was the line about white knighting Sakura later followed by calling her scum. It's not like Nacho needed to call her scum there and I think as scum Nacho would have been much more comfortable actually white-knighting if they'd said that, or more likely not making the white knighting comment at all. He's also awesome because he's voting for Majiffy!

I know he only had 10 posts, but how he's going about things while he is there is just completely different from here.

yeah that's what I meant, how can you be sure that's based off alignment and not inactivity?

And I'm defending him because I think he's town...

what are you hoping to accomplish by doing this?

also Pyrotechnics reads town for me. he's pointing a lot of things with wayne's logic similar to what I noticed w

It's more the difference between the style of his posts (I don't feel the kind of scum player in La-La goes all capsrage as scum in another game).

I'm not feeling up to reading people right now (will probably look over Pyro tonight), but I may end up agreeing with you on them. We'll see!

[DeasVail]

Pyro- If I start towntelling now would that be a scumtell though?

Pie- I said what I thought.

I'll go through Levi later today.

[DeasVail]

Ok, so regarding Levi Pyro, I think he's fairly different from here in the link you provided? 189[post], [post=200]200 and 265 are particularly genuine posts to me.

Sorry Pie, I meant that I just said what I thought when I defended AGar. I suppose I felt pretty strongly that AGar was town and thought I'd share it.

Talah, I'm becoming concerned about Matias. Are you?

I like that post, but I'm still pretty hesitant about Sakura. I can't see her being scum with Nacho though.

[DeasVail]

oh that is hideous

189, 200, 265

[DeasVail]

Hey Deas, why am I concerning to you? Feelings mutual but I want your take.

It's partly your lack of involvement (which I acknowledge could very well be due to RL reasons and that's fair enough), but the post about not having much to say unless there are questions asked of you is something I can relate to as scum (as scum you're primary focus is what others think of you, so you're priority will be with responding to comments about you/answering questions addressed to you), but not really at all as town, where I know that at least for me the priority is updating reads and convincing others of them, and I imagine it would be similar for others too. Your play this game has also not been as town as I'd have hoped from you (although this is in itself is not a huge deal) and I think 12 is slightly scummy, but that's quite weak too.

PEdit: I think there are reasons for scum to slime on other than it being a mislynch.

[DeasVail]

Why is this not a big deal to you?

In a previous game I played with Matias, he was town and probably the most obviously town player in the game, but players are bound to have games where they appear less town even as the same alignment (it's happened to me a few times), so I'm not going to call him scum for that alone (unless I don't find anything town about him, which is not true in Matias' case).

[DeasVail]

Majiffy, why haven't you tried to lynch me? Repeatedly complaining about my posts and wishing for a vig shot is nice and all, but I'm pretty sure half the game would be open to the idea of lynching me, so I don't know what to think except that it's all show and you're actually scared of me or something ridiculous like that.

[DeasVail]

Why do you like Jiffy?

[DeasVail]

Because the active cunts in the game all have it in their weak little minds that you're somehow town, which is not only beside me but also fucking retarded.

Who apart from Nacho thinks I'm town?

[DeasVail]

Oops.

Well it was his first game and his first scum game so of course it will be different. What I mean is that he has the capability of Looking. Like lost newb town when he's not.

I still think he's likely to be town here, but I'll keep it in mind.

[DeasVail]

Thanks wayne!

[DeasVail]

Yeah ok

Oh, and Happy Birthday! (I hope that's right, sometimes the time zones do strange things)

(@Wayne)

[DeasVail]

I am towning the towniest I can town, you just have your head up your ass.

Brushing me off again. What is your current read of me?

He does this all the time!!!!

[DeasVail]

I am towning the towniest I can town, you just have your head up your ass.

Brushing me off again. What is your current read of me?

He does this all the time!!!!

Oh no I meant he does this all the time this game.
Not as town.

@Nacho Unless you're idiot savant...

@Deaz Thanks! I'd hold off til the 8th to hammer you if the votes swung that way.

You're the best!

[DeasVail]

uhhhhh

I am towning the towniest I can town, you just have your head up your ass.

Brushing me off again. What is your current read of me?

He does this all the time!!!!

Not as town.

I meant he's doing it all the time this game.

[DeasVail]

Go find my reads list and poke around the posts near there. I had people questioning my read on you and no one supporting me.

You haven't answered my question, so I still don't think you care.

[DeasVail]

Guys.

I'm not usually very confident in my reads. Most of the time I'm just a big wishy-washy ball of nothing and as much as I've tried to pretend otherwise in recent games, I'm sure I haven't really fooled anyone. However, sometimes I've felt really quite confident in someone being scum and have been right about it. The example that immediately comes to mind is PURPLE LOBSTA in Mini 1472, where I felt strongly that they were not being genuine and didn't understand why people thought otherwise. Guess who I feel that way about here!

Spoiler: Dun Dun Dun...

Yes it's a great shock to all of you I'm sure.

In addition to what I've said, what has caused me to have more confidence in my read is 659. I mean, what is this? Sure, being all 'I don't have to answer your question because I think you're scum, NUH-UH!' is nice 'townie' attitude that I'm sure scum would like to emulate, but the fact that I'm challenging his obviously incorrect reason for not pursuing a wagon on me (that everyone active thinks I'm town) makes the question of quite personal interest to him regardless of whether or not I'm asking it. So, I think he's stuffed up in making a bad excuse not to wagon me and is now trying to avoid it and hope it goes away.

I'm really sorry if I'm wrong about this, and I don't mean to say that I'm some great scumhunter who you should always sheep, because I'm so not, but this Majiffy wagon isn't going to go anywhere by itself, and I feel really good about this vote.

If anyone has a substantial townread on Majiffy that they'd like to share, then I'm keen to hear it, but so far I've seen nothing particularly town from him.

~~

kanye, why Nacho?

[DeasVail]

Deas - I have a slight scumread on Majerky right now but the risk/reward of him actually being town makes him not a fantastic D1 lynch. ADDITIONALLY I wish you'd stop tunnelling him and you know, scumhunt.

I'm thinking about my other reads and considering other options, but if tunneling just means trying to lynch your strongest scumread, then I don't really mind if I am?

[DeasVail]

I'll make a proper post tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

Tammy, I'm not saying that Majiffy is afraid to push on someone that everyone is townreading. I'm saying that he's used the fact that people townread me as an excuse not to wagon me, and when I questioned the accuracy of so many people townreading me (and I'm pretty sure it was pretty inaccurate) he just makes some comment about how he doesn't care what I say because I'm scum. From this, I strongly feel that he doesn't actually care about the likelihood of being able to lynch me (despite using it as a reason for not pursuing my lynch). This is the thing I feel strongest about at this stage, but I think there are other scummy things about him too.

~~

706 seems off to me.

Pie has generally felt fairly town to me, but a specific recent thing just looking at his ISO is how he gets involved with the town bloc, going so far as to nominate Pyrotechnics (564). If Pyro's a buddy, then scum would feel incredibly awkward doing this, so that's pretty likely not the case. Pyro-town with pie-scum is possible here, but it's more initiative on Pie's part than I'd expect from scum, who I think would be more likely to go with the flow.

Tammy/Syr, what looks town about Majiffy?

[DeasVail]

!!!

I'm not saying that people were townreading me. I am saying that barely anyone was townreading me!

My whole point which no one seems to get is that Majiffy said this when I asked him why he wasn't lynching me:

Because the active cunts in the game all have it in their weak little minds that you're somehow town, which is not only beside me but also fucking retarded.

Of course it was completely wrong. I know it was completely wrong. You know it's completely wrong. I'm not that deluded.

BUT,

when I challenge Majiffy about this in 628, he responds with something that doesn't actually indicate people thinking I'm town 652, and then when I challenge him again in 654 he makes some comment about not caring about my questions because I'm scum (659). But this question is something he should be interested in! He has just ignored the obvious fact that I was barely townread at all at that time with a lovely facade of ~attitude~. If he's so confident that I'm scum that he's willing to ignore me and now that it's practically been shoved in his face that there are many people that would probably be willing to lynch me, why is he not wanting to lynch me??? Because I told him to, and he doesn't want to cave in to someone he's supposed to be scumreading? That's my best guess at this stage, but the most important thing is that it's not genuine and it's not honest. I really think he's scum.

[DeasVail]

Oh, and I didn't mean about pie wanting to join the town bloc, but the post where he suggested adding pyro to it.

[DeasVail]

but I think there are other scummy things about [Majiffy] too.

Go on...

when I challenge Majiffy about this in 628, he responds with something that doesn't actually indicate people thinking I'm town 652

When you challenge arguments for someone being scum, that shows a town-lean, if not a town-read.
When you don't support arguments for someone being scum, that shows the lack of a scum-lean or a scum read.

This isn't hard.

-Look at my posts
-No one challenged you. They asked you why you thought I was scum, and just because no one went 'WOOHOO YEAH MAJIFFY I have a scumread on DeasVail too!' doesn't mean they don't, especially since you weren't pushing my lynch.

The point is, I asked you who was townreading me apart from Nacho (the answer being no one) and you didn't actually care despite it apparently being the reason why you weren't voting for me. Even now, there are quite a few townreads on pie, so it would make much more sense to try and lynch me than him.

[DeasVail]

Your posts have all been "Wah! Majiffy won't answer my really self-evident questions! What a scumbag!"
So I'm asking you to further your case with reasons you've already stated exist. So go on, then. Lets see whatcha got.

They asked me to explain in a tone that implied they disagreed with the read. And certainly no one supported the scumread. Ergo, I'm right, you're wrong. Again. Twist it how you want, I'll still be right.

No that's not why I think you're scum but if that makes you feel better then sure?
I've been harping on about you for quite a while. I was saying things before this thing about not lynching me.

This is ridiculous Majiffy, and I'm pretty sure you realise it.

[DeasVail]

Levi, why was dopog scum?

[DeasVail]

Definitely not Beli or AGar. Emp and Kalimar would be ok I guess, but I don't have anything on them.

Why don't you want to lynch Majiffy today?

[DeasVail]

Let me put it this way. What if we lynched Nacho today and he flipped town?

Imperfect analogy but people's thoughts evolve as more information comes to light and D1 isn't the best time to be lynching experienced players I have only a mild scum-lean on. I want to see what he does tomorrow, if he's still alive.

Is there anyone else you feel is a good lynch for today?

I understand where you're coming from, but if I thought Nacho was scum as I do Majiffy, I'd be all for lynching him too. I don't think the fact that someone's experienced should stop us from lynching them.

Since my reads post, I have a townread on Sakura, and although I'm not sure of Pyro yet, I'm cautiously reading them as town. So Empking, Svenkst, AA9 and Kalimar are the people I'd probably be willing to compromise on. AA9 would be the least likely, as I think she can be pretty town when she is town, so I'd prefer to see more from her. Empking seems to be playing as he usually does, so lynching him almost feels like a policy lynch, but I'd prefer it to one of my townreads, Svenkst I would want to see more from. Kalimar's probably my second-favourite lynch, but Majiffy just seems so much better to me.

~~

Um Majiffy, you've kind of ruined any chance there was of me bending over backwards to clearly explain my scumread on you to you.

Wayne, are you serious?

[DeasVail]

Hmm, I like that post, but completely disagree with Wayne's reason for voting him. I might be open to a levi wagon, but I'm not sure yet.

[DeasVail]

Wayne, the points raised in Pyro's post have me seriously reconsidering my levi townread, so I don't think it'd be that unlikely for town to have hopped on the wagon.

I completely agree with Pie about Majiffy.

[DeasVail]

Majiffy, you do realise that you've done far more discrediting than pie has, right?

I completely agree with Pie about Majiffy.

Jesus Christ if you guys flip partners you are without a doubt the worst scum team ever.

This is where you should start thinking that we're probably not partners.

Beli, have you seen me play elsewhere?

[DeasVail]

Mastin, why do you think Majiffy is town?

[DeasVail]

Pyro has become underwhelming.

Pie, you shouldn't have claimed so early, but things should be ok. Also, I think that since scum would be able to get rid of you at night easily enough, they wouldn't go to the effort of trying to get you lynched, especially since most of the time claims happen before lynches.

Nacho, when you get here can you please say what you think of Majiffy?

[DeasVail]

Breadcrumb was ridiculously bad. Plus he's a little scumbutt.

I've never encountered a scum vig before, seems kind of weird considering scum

already have a night kill.

How about SK?

I'll say more about this later, but regardless, pie shouldn't be lynched today.

[DeasVail]

Deas ~ sorry! I think you're scum right now so it doesn't help pie from my perspective.

Do you think I'm likely buddies with pie? (even Majiffy doesn't think we are, and pie is very very likely not groupscum)

Because last I heard you weren't at all confident in reading me, so considering these two things, not being at all interested in my opinion on pie is strange.

[DeasVail]

In case I haven't made it clear enough, I think it unlikely that Majiffy went after Pie suspecting that he was a killing role, but he's still scummy for other reasons, so it's no big deal.

[DeasVail]

Oh man...

[DeasVail]

Sucks being pinned as scum by a Jiffy d1, don't it?

I guess so?

In other news, I'm less sure of my Majiffy read, but I

think

I'll still be going with scum. Don't have the time to think about it right now though, so I'll be back later!

[DeasVail]

"Quickly, quickly! Buddy him! Buddy him!"

Well now I won't buddy you.

Your loss.

[DeasVail]

Pie, why are you abandoning Majiffy?

And in case it isn't obvious, I'm ok with Majiffy again.

[DeasVail]

Hmm ok.

Unvote: Majiffy
Vote: Kalimar

Would definitely support a Majiffy wagon if it looks viable, but if he dies a bit later that's ok too.

[DeasVail]

Why the fuck is everyone just fucking claiming?

One could say the same about wanting to lynch pie.

[DeasVail]

Why the fuck is everyone just fucking claiming?

One could say the same about wanting to lynch pie.

Let's consider the facts:

- He claimed unprovoked about having a killing role. This is admittedly a pretty strong role. He wasn't in danger of being lynched - the wagons were at 4:4 between me and him at the time of claim, or something close to that.
- Since the claim, he's remained focused on Majiffy, trying to throw and throw shit at Majiffy in hopes that it will stick.
- His entire basis of attacking Majiffy has been "You knew I was a vig all along, so you wanted me to claim." Um, what?
- The crumb tells me one of four things: he's an SK that wanted to have an out early on; he's scum on a team that views him as a weakness and had him put a weak crumb in early to maybe draw a CC; he's claiming on his own and got dumb-shit lucky; or he's the worst mafia player in the history of the world. He's the anti-Andrius of claiming. The first letter of the first two lines and then the last letter of the last line? Just doesn't even seem remotely believable to me.

You're missing some pretty important stuff, but it doesn't matter as long as he isn't lynched.

[DeasVail]

Kalimar built too easily. He's probably not scum.

I feel like this is the kind of assumption that can easily lead town astray. I don't think it's unlikely for scum to feel pressured to join a wagon on their buddy, and it's even possible that the wagon is all town.

Levi, what is the difference between a 'scum on town' argument and a 'town on town' argument?

I think you'd be better off shooting someone that has claimed , but I'd prefer Sven to ArcAngel, as I've felt disappointed by ArcAngel before only for her to be obviously town a bit later.

[DeasVail]

1183 is really scummy.

I think it's best not to lynch either Kalimar or Pie today. Both their alignments will be more obvious later.

Vote: Majiffy

/hopeful

AA9 wagon is ok, but not amazing.

[DeasVail]

What I mean by 'more obvious' is that there's the possibility there for kalimar's alignment to become really obvious, and in pie's case just having some kills to deal with will give us a better idea of the possibilities (still not buying that he's groupscum though). These are both role-related (although I have opinions outside of this that I'll probably talk about Day 2), whereas I don't think Majiffy's role has the potential to reveal a great deal about his alignment, and I still think he's scum.

I don't really think pie or kalimar are going to be lynched today anyway. Those interested in lynching one of them are pretty divided, and I doubt too many are going to jump ship, so it's probably going to be something else, and I think it should be Majiffy.

[DeasVail]

This town seems pretty Weak PR-heavy, so making a policy of only lynching a non-PR-claim is a bit of a bother.

I don't think Pie is as scummy as you say he is, so I'm afraid that's not really what I'm saying. And if he's groupscum like you have suggested, then lynching him doesn't make a difference to the kills.

[DeasVail]

What I mean by 'more obvious' is that there's the possibility there for kalimar's alignment to become really obvious, and in pie's case just having some kills to deal with will give us a better idea of the possibilities (still not buying that he's groupscum though). These are both role-related (although I have opinions outside of this that I'll probably talk about Day 2), whereas I don't think Majiffy's role has the potential to reveal a great deal about his alignment, and I still think he's scum.

Kalimar's alignment probably doesn't need to become more obvious unless you're breathlessly waiting for him to lynch Nacho tomorrow morning.
Like seriously, the only possible confirmations of his role are: 1) he gets nk'd and flips town 2) he lynches scum on a subsequent day
What we know: 1) it doesn't matter if he gets nk'd and flips town because he's the Lone Ranger of daykilling 2) he will probably lynch town on a subsequent day if he gets the opportunity to do so, because he's the Lone Ranger of daykilling

I don't really think pie or kalimar are going to be lynched today anyway. Those interested in lynching one of them are pretty divided, and I doubt too many are going to jump ship, so it's probably going to be something else, and I think it should be Majiffy.

How do you figure the kalimar wagon is stalled when he's got the equal top amount of votes after they've just been reset? The vote you just laid down, again, says "I'm supporting a defunct vote". There is almost no chance of your proposed lynch being successful! So why?

Whatever, if he's got more than 1-shot, then he's very likely town, so I want to wait for clarification on that. I can see scum having a 1-shot vig maybe, but any more than that and I just don't think it works.

I think that Majiffy is a possible compromise vote. I doubt there's going to be any compromise between the pie and kalimar wagons because scumreading one probably means townreading the other (at the very least not wanting to lynch them), and there are probably a couple like me who aren't interested in either. I don't think Majiffy has a super high chance of getting lynched, but I think it may just be less defunct than your vote, and with Kalimar potentially looking pretty town, I don't think it's a smart lynch.

[DeasVail]

Whatever, if he's got more than 1-shot, then he's very likely town, so I want to wait for clarification on that. I can see scum having a 1-shot vig maybe, but any more than that and I just don't think it works.

And how do we clarify whether he is more than 1-shot? Do you think an *anytime* scum kill is a thing?

No, but I have seen a >1-shot dayvig before. And I imagine it would become clear on Day 2 whether he had anymore shots.

No, kalimar vs pie is not a thing.

Well it certainly seems to be.

Let me clarify: you are saying that Kalimar is looking pretty town.

Having just killed town.

No, I'm saying that he would look pretty damn town if he had more than 1 shot. (I also think Mastin is a rather stupid daykill to claim as scum, but I'm still open to possibilities there)

Talah, I'd much rather you voted for Majiffy than myself, and also, who do you think I expect to get lynched today?

Kanye, there have been a few votes for me today without much reasoning and a wagon hasn't taken off. Why do you think it'd be different now?

Pie should be killed because it takes away scum's obvious NK choice? Really wayne?

Sven, wayne is just weird sometimes (which is cool!). He could still be scum so vote for Majiffy. It's not a scumslip though.

Sakura, telling pie who to kill is a bad idea (group of 3 or something like that is fine, but otherwise no), and there's no real confirmation needed. If the person we told Pie to kill was dead, then it's probably safe to say Pie killed them?

Swingy games (esp. larges) are often considered acceptable.

[DeasVail]

DeasVail, we're not lynching Majiffy anymore.

Is he town?

[DeasVail]

DeasVail, we're not lynching Majiffy anymore.

Is he town?

Yep.

I've been worried about that, but I'm still a bit hung up over him being so scummy earlier, and I could still see his recent posting coming from scum. Is there a reason why I shouldn't be thinking this?

[DeasVail]

Ok, so catch-up will be quick and time for the next almost-month limited because of exams. I'll try my best to keep on top of things though. Here we go!

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen Nacho respond to me yet, so I'll say that I think Majiffy is being loud and all, but nothing that I think would be unlikely enough from him as scum to change my opinion on the posts that actually made me think he was scum.

1520 is not very town from AA at all.

1527 is better I guess.

I really don't think vigging someone that's likely town is a good idea. If a VI is really transparent and obviously town, then I'll be happy with that. Tammy, with the amount of games you've stormed with PoE (well at least 2), why are you so for vigging townreads? By the way, are you scum?

Talah, I suspect that kanye pushing for vigging Nacho with his vote on me, after me challenging his vote on me, is less careful than what scum would do, but I'm not sure of my read on him right now.

Uh, not sure where I want to be right now. AA9 wagon is ok, but not sure of that yet and there are enough votes on her anyway. So Majiffy it is!

[DeasVail]

I don't have time to check things now, but I'm sorry if I was mistaken and take it back if so.

[DeasVail]

Ok Pyro, my main problem was that you'd want to vig someone that was 'bad' even if they were a townread. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have had much of a read on AA9 in The Wire when you vigged her, and it's not like you had much of a townread on AA9 in Castle Zar, but admittedly I forgot about both of these and my point is weaker because of it (particularly the second one).

Nacho, I'll leave Majiffy alone for now, but if you change your mind... you know where I'll be.

Wayne, to be completely honest, I don't think the reason in 1376 is any good.

Kanye, I thought Wake's post was pretty town myself. I agree that Matias was probably town though.

Unvote

AA should probably claim.

[DeasVail]

or he should probably produce some content instead.

Well I don't know if that's going to happen. I'd rather get a claim.

Wayne,

to be completely honest

, I don't think the reason in 1376 is any good.

Oh. So you weren't being honest before? That's good to know. Now you're found scum. This is my favorite tell!

VOTE: DeasVail

I wasn't found scum before? You sneaky thing!

[DeasVail]

Just ignore the derp if you find it so unbearable.

[DeasVail]

Policy lynches are fine for reasons such as 'this player will continue to prod-dodge all game long and I'll never be able to read them', but when it's along the lines of 'this player is town but bad', I think it's silly.

[DeasVail]

not saying he's wrong, but definitely not right.

What do you mean?

Nacho, why did pie claim vig so early?

Wake's probably town. First Matias replacing out due to a lack of interest was more likely from town because he was pretty widely townread, so if he was scum, then he was obviously playing well, and usually when you're playing well you're pretty pleased with yourself and would be less inclined to lose interest and replace out. I don't think this is guaranteed to be true, but I think it's more likely than him being scum. Also, Wake admitting to not reading the AA9 ISO despite joining it, the major wagon of Day 1, (I think scum feel pretty self-conscious about this kind of thing) is more likely from town, so I'm not really interested in pursuing any kind of wagon there for the time being.

I'm sorry about thinking Pie was town guys. (Well done on so completely fooling me btw. I thought your play was great until you claimed vig, but that wasn't a good move, which is why I thought you were town actually )

Levi, why would you be ok with us lynching you tomorrow?

Wayne, Pie wants to stay alive. If he doesn't do what we say, then we'll obviously want to kill him, so there's no need to lynch him until that happens (and it probably won't). Ok, why are you ignoring the others that have brought this up?

Kanye.

I'm still not feeling amazing about a DrDolittle lynch, but I'd probably be fine with it. I actually think it's possible I'd be up for lynching Wayne, but I don't have the time to actually get a proper read on him now. Favourite lynch at this point would be Empking, but it's more because he just isn't very town rather than anything else. I guess I'll

Vote: Empking

but I'll switch to a more viable wagon closer to deadline if for some absurd reason people don't mindlessly sheep me.

[DeasVail]

Proper post when I have more time, but I think I've already said why I think leashing the SK is a good idea, so yeah, it's a good idea and let's not lynch Pie.

[DeasVail]

I'm still not for lynching Pie. He probably killed AA, so he's not the big bad meanie that people thought he was going to be, and if he's scum (I really don't think so though), well.. I don't really mind if it means his faction's going to keep killing who we tell them to? Also, the SK doesn't actually know who the mafia are any more than we do, so they can't actively not kill scum.

And I want an explanation from Majiffy as to why he didn't use his supposed ability Night 1. You'd think he'd use it if he could, and if he's Town I don't see why the Hell not.

If you had this concern, why were you so against Majiffy being lynched today?

~~

Town/Not wanting to lynch any time soon:

Belisarius
Pieguyn
AGar
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

Weaker town but still not that interested in lynching:

Kanye
PeregrineV
leviathan93
NachoKoopa
Majiffy*

*Probably in the list below if Nacho changes.

Leftover/scummy:

Wayne
Svenskt
Empking
Pyrotechnics

I actually still need to read Wayne properly, but he's a mixture of town-looking and scummy, and after a quick skim and think about things just now and I'm leaning towards the scummy side of things. Svenskt is just there. I don't think he's overly scummy, but he's not town either so I wouldn't be upset with his lynch. Empking is probably my favourite choice for lynch because while he is usually minimal with his posting, it usually achieves much more than is occurring here. Pyro is just really underwhelming, but I think Tammy at least is pretty obvious as town, so I'll wait a little.

Vote: Empking

[DeasVail]

Wayne, I can think of ways in which the mafia's kill could be blocked from going through. And, as I said, if we control the mafia's kill, then awesome!

Wake, can you please answer the question in my previous post?

[DeasVail]

Can we please not argue about what multiball is? Different people have different definitions. Um... yeah, that's really all there is to say about it.

Yeah, I'm probably more willing to lynch Levi with Sakura no longer defending him, but I'm surprised by the lack of interest in an Empking lynch.

[DeasVail]

I've already said why I think leashing the SK is a good idea, so yeah, it's a good idea and let's not lynch Pie.

And, as I said, if we control the mafia's kill, then awesome!

Where's the misrep Titus? If he's saying we can somehow control the SCUM kill, this was the only time he's said as much. And if that were the case, it wouldn't be preempted with "as I said. That's a legit slip.

I'll catch up properly later, but I'm pretty sure I said before that if Pie is mafia like you say he is, it's not a big deal leashing him then either, as long as we're only having him kill people who we'd probably lynch anyway.

[DeasVail]

No, I meant that in the scenario that Pie was mafia (which I think is very unlikely, but I don't agree in completely ruling it out).

[DeasVail]

I'm still not for lynching Pie. He probably killed AA, so he's not the big bad meanie that people thought he was going to be, and if he's scum (I really don't think so though), well.. I don't really mind if it means his faction's going to keep killing who we tell them to?

[DeasVail]

Titus, that quote was where I had previously mentioned that Pie being group scum would actually be no problem at all, so I think that's a pretty bad point in favour of lynching pie. I agree with Nat, essentially.

I can't say I'm too passionate about Empking vs. Svenskt but Svenskt has this semi-natural feel to him that Empking doesn't.

[DeasVail]

Talah, I don't have a townread on Svenkst. I would slightly prefer lynching Empking at this time though.
It's not Empking vs. Svenskt. I meant that between them, I prefer Empking.
The argument for Empking-scum is that he doesn't usually have such little impact on the game, and is a non-townread in a game where I have many townreads.

Sakura, I think that being manipulative is not necessarily a scumtell, and since town have more reason to be so adamant about a particular lynch and since Wake if scum would know that there's no need to try so hard to get a pie lynch (I'm saying this because he's obviously a pretty good scum player if he's scum). So, I think he's town because while it makes complete sense for scum to want the SK lynched, it doesn't make sense for them to be so obviously manipulative in order to get it unless they're new to being scum.

2702 in particular seems incredibly strange for scum to make.

Titus, I don't think you're going to stop people from arguing about Pie.

Leviathan, you have to consider that even if Pie kills town, it would be someone we would have wanted to lynch most likely anyway, so it's really not a big deal, and increases the ratio of town-directed kills:scum-directed kills.

AGar, do you have a townread on Svenskt?

Levi, why should I think you're town in this game?

Wayne, why are you arguing about how scummy Pie is? I think everyone agrees that he is scum?

~~

Unvote: Empking
Vote: Pyrotechnics

[DeasVail]

Deasvail,

Dont talk abou ongoing games

Pie is viewed as SK, not scum

SK is scum (at least in my definition). Scum (incl. SK) are scummy. Pie is therefore going to be scummy. Yes, it's a lot to take in know.

Wayne, why are you arguing about how scummy Pie is?

I think everyone agrees that he is scum

?

~~

Unvote: Empking
Vote: Pyrotechnics

And votes Pyro...

Because derple are arguing that he's town bastion instead of lynching his scumbutt. And again, that vote. That dissonance.

Pie is viewed as SK, not scum

No. For me at least he's very much viewed as scum.

I've already explained why it's not beneficial to lynch Pie.

Really though, don't you think that the vig safeclaim (which was really early to be something made up by groupscum) and the fact that he's letting his kill be controlled instead of just dying like groupscum would actually do (it's not helpful to his team to stay alive and restrict their kills to people like AA if he's going to be lynched anyway). His play and everything else just makes so much more sense from a Serial Killer.

[DeasVail]

Wayne, if he flips factional scum, I will probably actually suspect the people who have suggested that he is despite all evidence indicating otherwise, but if that is the case and you're town, then I'm sorry, but I disagree with you right now.

I'm also not sitting on any fences. I used scum as a broad term encompassing roles that are expected to be scummy, and since everyone agrees that pie is actually scum, arguing about how scummy he is is pointless, because it doesn't suggest that he's more likely to be groupscum than SK, and doesn't convince anyone that leashing him is not a good idea.

And, you can't use the fact that AA9 was town as a reason why we should lynch Pie. AA9 was someone that people were ok with having vigged. If a vig had targeted AA9, no one would have been surprised nor would anyone have cared a great deal.

Mafia PRs are really not all they're cracked up to be. First, the number of PRs that Pie could be is pretty limited considering that he didn't claim the town version of it, and I think it would have to be a pretty special PR for it to be worth all this.

Majiffy, I ask that you do not replace out considering the difficulty kdub has had in finding past replacements.

Svenskt, why do you care about Wayne's read on you?

[DeasVail]

Majiffy, I could say the same for you insisting that Pie is a groupscum PR. Unless you are lying about your role and/or are scum with knowledge that Pie is groupscum, then neither of us is really any more entitled to our opinion than the other.

[DeasVail]

Claiming night vig as groupscum and actually killing who you claim you will makes even less sense!

[DeasVail]

Wake, I'm not going to change my mind just because you don't like my opinion and will have a big whinge about it if I don't. Surely if you've been playing for 6 years you know that people won't always agree with you, and frankly this ego thing you have going makes me question your competence.

Pyro, is it really that obvious? You yourself have mentioned that you've been avoiding the thread. Why should I be reading you as town? Obviously you're not going to be town in games with me forever, so this whole I only 'suspect' you as scum thing is pretty and I'm not sure why it's a reason why I shouldn't suspect you? The fact is, when I've seen you as town, you have been really obviously town, sometimes even right from Page 1/2. I do not see that at all here.

I don't think there's much reason to be concerned about the tracker claims when neither of them is a full tracker (as far as I know) and they're both really obvtown and it's probably the kind of thing a mod would do to cause extra confusion in a game.

I'm also starting to think though that lynching the SK might be best just to stop all the drama, but I feel like we've been bullied into it, so I'm still quite resistant to the idea especially when it's based on ridiculous notions such as Pie likely being groupscum, which as I've already said, doesn't even mean we should lynch him!

Ok Stal is probably town.

Titus, why would scum be so bold as to make that post?

Wayne, Pie staying alive is not what causes the town deaths. And even his kill is only instead of the groupscum kill if that's what he is. Our lynches and other vig kills are completely independent of Pie.

Wake, I have to say it, but you're becoming a little ridiculous with this vigpool thing. And why are there 8 spots?

This would be a vote for levi, but I can't be bothered counting, so I'll wait for a vote count.

[DeasVail]

I like [Empking, Pyro, Wayne] as SK targets btw.

PEdit: Oh sorry, I meant the Svenskt one asking for breadcrumbs.

PEdit: I'm saying that what you're doing is not making me want to follow what you say. In fact it's quite the opposite, and I think it's the same for most players here, who have expressed interest in killing you even if you're town. Seriously, if you want people to take you seriously, you probably need to take a different approach.

[DeasVail]

I actually don't mind the idea of having everyone nominate three people. It was something we always did way back on my old site, and it worked quite well. I don't know if we'll manage to do it though.

Empking, Pyro, Wayne

PEdit: Titus, yeah you did, but I don't think I've ever seen scum do that, and usually when I've seen something that's too strange to come from town or scum, it's from town.

[DeasVail]

Although I do sometimes I have doubts, I still don't think that Wake can be scum.

[DeasVail]

Sakura is I think. And I'd rather not kill a townread.

PEdit: Yeah.

[DeasVail]

Yeah, the nominations listed under Wayne are mine.

[DeasVail]

What happened to your scumread on me?

[DeasVail]

(@Wayne)

[DeasVail]

Waynegg: Empking, Pyro, Wayne

This is mine, not wayne's.

[DeasVail]

Unvote: Pyro
Vote: Empking

[DeasVail]

Usually you get people to claim before lynching them.

[DeasVail]

AGar, it's quite likely that scum were unable to 'deal' with pie last night.

The reasons for lynching pie are still pretty bad, but I can't be bothered arguing anymore.

[DeasVail]

Wake, Pyro has essentially shown us that Pie is the SK and not groupscum. Please don't use the possibility of him being groupscum to support your arguments.

I also don't see much point in waiting for a lynch at this stage except for getting a claim/anything else that's obvious.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

[DeasVail]

Oh, and the order that I list players in doesn't mean anything, and there's also Pie.

[DeasVail]

I think they're both pretty town though. Wake especially seems town with his desperate need for control (seems to stem from the paranoia that anyone else leashing the SK could possibly be scum-motivated which is pretty town) and I pretty consistently get the impression that he's town who thinks he's pretty great and thinks that everyone else either sucks or is scum. Match this kind of attitude with scum, and all of it just seems so unnecessary that you wonder scum would even bother with it.

Nati is probably one of my weaker 'super town' reads (but is still a pretty strong townread because by super I actually mean super), but I think that he's generally been quite town from things like his softclaim to his pushing of the DrDolittle wagon (scum could have easily just sat back and let town just continue in chaos because that's what pretty much everyone else was doing). There are also things like 3526 that are exactly what I felt like saying, so yeah, probably one of my less ~logical~ townreads, but I feel he's pretty town!

PEdit (Titus) But I don't want Pie to feel left out!

PEdit: (Wake) I'm sure there are quite a few non-Pie scum. Why not lynch them?

PEdit (Wayne) And here I was thinking you'd changed your mind on me.

[DeasVail]

SO MANY PAGES

[DeasVail]

Yeah, I can't really do this now. Tomorrow.