WWE Believe in the Shield

[penguin_alien]

Sorry, I thought I'd have more time today to catch up on the thread. I should be fully in the loop by tomorrow, by which I mean in < 24 hours.

At present, based on what I've read (which is mid-40's to current and 1-15) I'd put ArcAngel9, Amethyst Actor, and Svenskt Stal as townish. The Krab Bucket jump on Ravenpaw was godawful scummy. Skullduggery was scummy at the start, but posts in the more recent section of the game come from a pretty towny mindset to my reading.

Interesting that GoodCopBadCop was dismissing the wagon on Skullduggery as too obvious to have scum on it. Not sure if that was coming from a place of him wanting to deflect scum hunting there for the sake of his team or something else.

[penguin_alien]

Sorry, still not caught up; Mother's Day was busier than I anticipated.

Mutleyddmc, why not have any town reads? You have a vote where you think scum is and that wasn't a read that came about by telepathy.

[penguin_alien]

Because I'm asking specifically why he feels he can give a scum read but not a town read. I don't get a jokey feel from his posts. As far as time, I have a few minutes to post and figured I'd rather follow up on something that's a current issue than read page 23.

[penguin_alien]

I like that...as of this past Friday...you've actually stated cases for why people are scum, instead of just criticizing others. But I really wanted to bold the above. You know...in case I end up dead.

Why? Do you assume that as scum we would nightkill you?

*blank stare*

No. It's just that you keep saying that you're going to kill me. It makes me uneasy.

I really didn't like this post, however. If you're going to rolefish with a Goat, try using something bright and shiny, like a tin can.

Thing is, I agree more with xMALCOLMx than Goat here: going on about how you could be dead and so you have to emphasize your points doesn't track. If you flip town, either post-lynch or via NK, at some point people are going to look back to determine what motivation might have existed. Fear-mongering doesn't make things more valid. It does make you look like you're pretending to run scared.

I see Mutley as posting a lot of filler to disguise a lack of case-making. Mutley, you think ferretlover is scum based on his reaction to the GCBC flip. But you don't seem to be pushing in a useful way for his lynch. Saying, "can we kill ferret" isn't a persuasive case, and it seems like a good excuse to stay off an eventual wagon. WRT ferret, you say:

So a 1-Shot Day-Vig I'm assuming? Dammit RoleCop gone. That sux man.

Hate posts like this. Scream scum to me.

Those posts as fuzzy said are scum tells. They are over forced etc. although he was wrong on the fact that it was a bad thing for the town. If it was town cop say. We know its bad no need to say oh darn. Just gloating really

So where does the plural 'posts' come in in #1184? The mistaken ID of GCBC's flip as a town PR is of zero use for scum, either group. Sure, maybe some WIFOM, but he wasn't under any pressure really. Why take a risk with that kind of comment?

Darthe, do you have a more comprehensive case? Looking back over the VCs, you were voting there for a while, and you seem inclined to put your vote back on ferret.

Amethyst Actor's posts read town overall, and I'll buy Nero Cain as likely town. I'm not sure about MonkeyMan576; first he wants to scum-hunt on the Krab wagon, then he's voting Krab himself. From what I've seen in other games he can be a bit distracted, and having played in more games where he was scum than not, I do wonder if it's a scum trait of his.

Boils down to:
VOTE: Mutley

[penguin_alien]

PA, what is your Goat read?

I don't have a town read on him right now but he's not my first choice to lynch. His posts are deteriorating a bit from early game in glancing through his ISO, but it's not clear to me that his interaction with GCBC was way scummy. If that fake vig claim had tipped him off about GCBC being rival scum there were less conspicuous ways to crumb his support of the triple power jump to his teammates without leaving himself on the wagon. It actually seems like 25 pages go by between GCBC's fake action and the daykill. If The Goat knew his faction had the option to eliminate GCBC during the day, why jump so quickly?

I don't like his latest posting on how he thinks if people say their playstyle is scummy they should get a pass. If your playstyle looks scummy and you can't make it work for you, change it or accept that you're going to spend a lot of time on defense. Like I said, my vote's not going there, but I'm not inclined to grump at people if he ends up being lynched.

[penguin_alien]

What changed between these:

No one looks like they are moving from the Krab wagon(cause it's a scum driven wagon and they are mostly scum), so if we want to lynch someone else the rest of us are almost going to all have to agree to get something through.

Mutt's claim doesn't mesh with what Krabs was trying to soft claim. Mutt/Krabs is town

Malcom isn't ordering people around because Malcom is not Nacho, it's Nacho and Kise and I don't even think Nacho has posted recently. Further more, Kise has been ordering people around

Krabs was opportunisic, Krabs gave off Scum AtE, Krabs attacks are absolute shit and their targets of choice is obv opportunistic, there are various reasons on scumkrabs, no reason for townkrabs and the fact that he may be your top suspect but won't vote because you have other people on that wagon you don't like is complete shit.

Monkey, why do you have Krabs as town you didn't answer that question, no one is.

I have Krabs as town because of my perception of the Krabs wagon vs. the Malcolm/GCBC wagons.

Instead of looking at hydras why don't we look at people on the Krab wagon and figure out which of those are scum since the Malcolm wagon was gaining steam when GCBC was killed.

I'm not saying scum are "crowding" the Krab wagon, but I'm willing to bet 3 or 4 of them are scum.

The connection between the Krab wagon and the Malcolm wagon is that they are competing wagons. One is likely town and one is likely scum.

What I need to do is reread the thread and figure out who was defending GCBC.

And

If mutley isn't scum than he's just stupid.

Unvote:
Vote: Mutleyddmc

Yes, Mutley made a lot of noise, but you were pretty gung-ho on Malcolm and the idea of finding scum on the Krab wagon. If you thought he was town, his spouting off doesn't seem like a lot to go on to change your mind.

[penguin_alien]

I'd specifically like to hear from ArcAngel9, Fuzzyman, and Jebus as to why they weren't voting at the end of the day. With people indicating an interest in lynching The Goat, those who moved to that wagon are less suspect to me. Jebus said he wouldn't mind a Goat wagon, and his lack of follow-through is even worse than ArcAngel9's avoiding the issue. Then Fuzzyman voting over a fairly obvious jest and unvoting without any follow-up is equally lousy.

Given that xMalcolmx apparently didn't follow through on their intent to kill The Goat, it doesn't seem as shady that they'd try to get The Goat lynched yesterday.

VOTE: Jebus

[penguin_alien]

So....it looks like Malcolm and Goat are scum buddies for sure.

Malcolm said he was going to kill Goat, Goat is still alive. If Goat was town, I'm pretty sure Goat would be voting Malcolm right now and not Mutley.

It's suspicious that you are 1) Attacking Arc so hard 2) Not voting for her 3) Not on the major wagon.

Yet you're voting xMalcolmx. And I don't see how this works, that because Goat should be voting Malcolm, the latter is scummier than the former. Looks opportunistic to me, having failed to push a viable case on Malcolm before. This kind of singular focus with shaky reasoning reminds me of scum-MonkeyMan576.

UNVOTE: Jebus
VOTE: MonkeyMan576

[penguin_alien]

Yeah, I would be. Which is part of why I was good voting Jebus. But you present a case for why town-Goat wouldn't behave as he is and don't change your priorities; no mindlessness would be involved.

[penguin_alien]

Yeah, Monkeyman576's response to the daykill makes me want him lynched more than before.

VOTE: Monkeyman576

[penguin_alien]

Desperado, if you think xMalcolmx is to blame for the lack of a lynch yesterday, do you see him and Mutley as buddies? I know you initially said xMalcolmx was more problematic than Mutley, but xMalcolmx's reaction seems to have changed your mind.

And how does that whole situation compare to the case on ferretlover? You mentioned you liked Darthe's case and wanted ferretlover strung up. Given that GCBC was apparently game to lynch the Mutley slot and ferret, does that affect anything?

[penguin_alien]

Scum to town:
MonkeyMan576
Mutleyddmc
Jebus
ferretlover
Fuzzyman
The Goat
----------
PeregrineV
TheEsquire
Mac
Ravenpaw
Desperado
----------
Amethyst Actor
ArcAngel9
xMalcolmx
Darthe
Nero Cain
petapan

Some of the middle of that list is pretty weak reads, but the top six town reads I'm pretty sure on. And I'd lynch anywhere in the top six scum reads right now.

I'm not getting this push on ArcAngel9. Her reactions don't seem in line with her scum play and seem way more like her reactions as town. Nero Cain, what's your take there? P-edit: you obviously have her as town as well. I assume you'd agree with the first part of this paragraph, then?

[penguin_alien]

Some of the middle of that list is pretty weak reads, but the top six town reads I'm pretty sure on. And I'd lynch anywhere in the top six scum reads right now.

You mean this line?

I think despo is scum scum scum. Ditto for peta. Can you explain those.

...yes, I mean that. petapan's sense of irritation throughout his ISO feels genuinely town. My take is that scum wouldn't explicitly say that they hadn't bothered reading. His voting The Goat over Mutleyddmc comes from specifically not wanting Mutley as the lynch, which seems more definitive than he needs to be as town. Desperado just isn't nearly as scummy as my top six scum reads. He's in the middle, and depending on how my brain's firing on any given day, those middle reads might reorder slightly. But he tries to engage with people who aren't engaging with him in a way that goes beyond what it seems he'd feel compelled to do as scum. Much more pro-town than MonkeyMan576's awful reaction to daykills, or Fuzzyman trying to lynch you on a jest, or Mutleyddmc being scummy himself and in a horrendously scummy slot, or Jebus throwing around votes with no interest in engaging. The Goat's reactions to xMalcolmx bug me, and I think there's some merit to the cases presented on ferretlover. So I'd lynch any of them over Desperado right now.

[penguin_alien]

Wow how did nexus pull it through and get the subs :O

I see despo as town again and would love to see a monkey lynch. A monkey lynch wood give us a LOT of info.

I just got grounded from the computer so yeeeeaaaaahhhhh.

...what information do you expect to get from such a lynch? Sounds like you're more looking to hop on and conveniently not have a real reason the next day. Which makes me skeptical of the wagon, as I don't see MonkeyMan576 reacting quite like he has as scum in the past. Multiball may change that, and I wouldn't rule out their being opposite scum factions.

mastin2 looks good (although my context for that is that he didn't come in and insist on one person as scum [cough, Mini 1413 bussing]), and in conjunction with him not thinking MonkeyMan576 is scum,

UNVOTE: MonkeyMan576
VOTE: ferretlover

I don't like his faux-confused reaction to the Skullduggery daykill, but I think I'd rather see ferretlover hang today. And I'm not liking the ArcAngel9-ferretlover pile-up on Desperado.

ArcAngel9, my sense is that in games where you're town, you tend to appeal to other people who you think are town to try to get them to agree with you. Yet here you have no town reads at all (yourself doesn't count) and have a huge pile of players in neutral and null, whatever the difference is there for you? What gives?

[penguin_alien]

^ Not only does that read as fake, but it also comes directly after a prod and is on someone who isn't going to die this close to deadline.

...deadline got extended. I see no reason why a lynch can't happen in three days. Yes, I was prodded. What does that have to do with anything?

[penguin_alien]

....

*checks vote count*

*checks penguin's last post*

vote: Penguin_alien

I'm ok with this and I didnt knew i was voting peregrine who i havent even seen a post of rofl.

I mean, in penguin's last vote, he is voting for a player for attacking a player that he himself was voting for and im sorry but that screams getting off the wagon early, just because people were expressing monkey was town.

I already found ferretlover scummy. The way he went after MonkeyMan576 in light of MonkeyMan576's recent postings and points brought up by others, especially mastin2, are making me less certain of my scum read on Monkey and more interested in seeing how ferretlover reacts to more pressure. MonkeyMan576 could still be acting confused about the daykills to throw people off track about whether he's part of a scum group responsible, but that meshes less well with his straightforward reaction to being wagoned.

As far as having < 3 days to acquire a lynch, if that was your absolute top priority, one would think you'd a) have known where your vote was, having made a dozen posts already, and b) be jumping on a wagon with more than two votes. So your jump reads fake to me.

ferretlover, what's going on with this series of posts:

Desp's actions seemed towny until recently. I would be happy with a Desp lynch today.

Not sure if I have done this already so

VOTE: Desperado

Wow how did nexus pull it through and get the subs :O

I see despo as town again and would love to see a monkey lynch. A monkey lynch wood give us a LOT of info.

I just got grounded from the computer so yeeeeaaaaahhhhh.

I could see scum motive in a few of desp's posts.

What's bad about that?

What was so drastic that made you discount Desperado's towny actions enough to make you happy with his lynch, and then see him as town again? And I assume the last of these posts was you discussing your earlier willingness to lynch Desperado?

[penguin_alien]

So you are saying that the way ferret responded to monkey is making you more sure about monkey being town and ferret being scum... in fucking MULTIBALL of all things... you'd at least think you would found both of them scummy since you WERE voting monkey...
Oh but wait, after you called monkey town on your other post when you voted that one other guy, you are now calling him an "actor scum".
Yeah this is scum cleaning his hands sorry.

I never called MonkeyMan576 town--other people have. I said that I thought he was less scummy than ferretlover. I specifically noted that we're in multiball and so one of them being scum doesn't preclude the other from being scum:

Wow how did nexus pull it through and get the subs :O

I see despo as town again and would love to see a monkey lynch. A monkey lynch wood give us a LOT of info.

I just got grounded from the computer so yeeeeaaaaahhhhh.

...what information do you expect to get from such a lynch? Sounds like you're more looking to hop on and conveniently not have a real reason the next day. Which makes me skeptical of the wagon, as I don't see MonkeyMan576 reacting quite like he has as scum in the past.

Multiball may change that, and I wouldn't rule out their being opposite scum factions.

mastin2 looks good (although my context for that is that he didn't come in and insist on one person as scum [cough, Mini 1413 bussing]), and in conjunction with him not thinking MonkeyMan576 is scum,

UNVOTE: MonkeyMan576
VOTE: ferretlover

I don't like his faux-confused reaction to the Skullduggery daykill, but I think I'd rather see ferretlover hang today.

And I'm not liking the ArcAngel9-ferretlover pile-up on Desperado.

ArcAngel9, my sense is that in games where you're town, you tend to appeal to other people who you think are town to try to get them to agree with you. Yet here you have no town reads at all (yourself doesn't count) and have a huge pile of players in neutral and null, whatever the difference is there for you? What gives?

Emphasis added.

[penguin_alien]

Probably faster for me to give you the links: Open 459 (Mafia), Open 468 (SK), Micro 122 (Mafia), Newbie 1304 (Mafia), Street Racers (Mafia)

I think I overlapped with mastin2 in Street Racers, although we weren't alive at the same time. The only game I recall being in with mastin2 where we interacted was Mini 1413 (Town)

[penguin_alien]

Syryana, I addressed my take on Desperado in #2195. MonkeyMan576 was acting like he didn't know what was going on with the daykill, an odd reaction since it had happened the day before with flavor both times. AA9's lack of any town reads doesn't jive with her town play, but it doesn't match her scum meta. As for my take on pidgey, his talk about needing to make sure we don't fail to lynch felt disjointed. Doesn't make him scum or anything, but it was fearmongering and artificial to tell people to vote their scum reads, like an overemphasis on how pro-town he is.

The claim from Darthe is horrible; flavor without role is OTT scummy. And then a jump to Mac...on what grounds? That can be lynched; if other hammers don't show I'll hammer before deadline.

[penguin_alien]

VOTE: Desperado

[penguin_alien]

Cause i don't get the case.

it's a meta read. syryana and i hydra together so i know him decently well blah blah blah
and if you quicklynch him, shield doesn't get a kill.
so please hurry up.

If that's the case, surely you can give us something to go on?

[penguin_alien]

Claim time: I'm Daniel Bryan, VT. I'm not scum of any type, nor am I responsible for the kill. Although given the flavor change, either the Heyman killer has changed or Heyman isn't the ones killing the last two nights. I doubt pidgey is scum either, given that the flavor of triple-bombing implied at least one three-man scum team, which makes it likely the Heymen are equivalent in size. That in turn suggests we have one scum team member of each faction left, making a fake claim from scum-pidgey very sub-optimal. And if I were Shield I'd've daykilled before making this post.

I don't know what role besides busdriver could have given pidgey a false result, but then I'd never heard of a self-watcher before Darthe's flip, so who knows what else the scum might have.

I'm not sure who I think is most likely scum anymore, given the speed of the last two days. I'd be inclined to reexamine some earlier suspects who've faded from notice, but I don't know who off the top of my head.

[penguin_alien]

No, I was going for someone who was dangerous to Syryana working under the assumption he'd make it further than me.

Nice game, town. I can't comment on the GCBC daykill choice since I wasn't in yet, but Skullduggery was for looking unlynchable.

Thanks for modding, Nexus. Still have no idea about the flavor, but the set-up was pretty cool.