Committee Mafia - GAME OVER

[pablito]

I'll

vote: chamber

because last game I played (Wigu) he had great instinct on scum. I'm definitely good with Glork starting as mayor though.

[pablito]

vote: mariyta

[pablito]

cool, I foresaw the "I scum" statement the second it happened.

confirm vote: Mariyta

for that slip

[pablito]

I voted Mariyta because I have psychic abilities.

I agree that the original typo did not deserve a vote, but I vote Mariyta because I just wanted to, no reason at all.

Mariyta's overraction may just be the way that she usually reacts though. It's a path worth pursuing.

As for Max, it may be a wasted lynch, but if the role is so much that it's an extra killing group and we already had, what was it, five deaths? It might not be a bad thing to lynch a killer. Even if Max is some type of altered-vigilante, there are so many killing groups that crossfire alone can help replace this vigilante. Nonetheless, our discussion should focus on discovering scum. I'd like to see more people pursued today instead of a cut and clear "lynch Max" plan.

[pablito]

unvote: mariyta

because I do like the mariyta mayor plan.

vote: masterchief

for an unusual obsession over all things mariyta.

[pablito]

Seeing that the Mariyta for Mayor plan isn't as good as it initially seemed, we should also discuss whether we even want to have a Mayor for the next day. I think we need to have one and that we should discuss it today. Seeing people's reactions about possibly having to be Mayor (some roles may not want this position) may incite some information that is helpful.

[pablito]

Even when MC didn't have pressure, he had a few lapses in logic and judgment early in the day. I don't think pressuring him is going to give us anything new out of him.

[pablito]

unvote: masterchief (RIP) vote: lordy

why not.

[pablito]

Aren't chances high that Vaughn won't really last long in this game? He's already being pointed to and it seems he rarely lasts to endgame, so what makes him so worth saving today? I think a similar argument can be said about Glork. The fact that Glork was voted mayor means that many players wanted him alive at least to the first day. I don't see how Glork as town will last to the next day this game. These same players, if anti-town, will now want him dead. Thus, I will not support a Glork lynch nor a Vaughn lynch.

And Max already claimed. We can keep track along the way and see what he's supposedly doing. Like collecting stamps or something.

And why the hell do we need to direct the vigs again? If we decide to let a vigilante who must kill remain in the game, I think the vig should get a chance to decide who she wants to vig. Mariyta has every right to include our advice whether she asked for it or not, but I do not see how we as a town have a mandate to direct the vigilante/s.

[pablito]

checking in, will read now. just got in

[pablito]

Okay, I can volunteer myself for vigging if it so appeases everyone. Yeah, that was pretty bad logic that I used in my argument. Mostly I was trying to say something so that I could try to confuse stupid scum into not NKing Glork or Vaughn, but I see the inconsistencies now.

Nonetheless, I haven't jumped on bandwagons and I'm not really adding too much to the day.

I will claim and it is (in simplified terms) cop. I can give my night choice and we can see how it matches up to someone else's *cough* claim today.

[pablito]

I don't get why there was only one result. You explain that to me, Yaw.

[pablito]

but please don't get yourself modkilled

[pablito]

Yaw. Here's the problem. You speculate that you maybe should/could have received more than one result but knew you got only one. Maybe someone openly speculated that Yaw should have gotten more than one result and this is why Yaw says this. I can't be asked to search for that quote. But if Yaw is asking why he didn't get more than one and no one ever mentioned the possibility before - then I don't get it.

[pablito]

I know why he got one result last night, but I don't know if I can reveal more because of the ubiquitous mod killing anvils. But Yaw doesn't want to reveal the one choice. And I don't see why it would harm us to reveal especially if it's an innocent result.

Looking back at Yaw's posts, it does make sense that he doesn't know how the results are given and why there was only one choice. And if Yaw thinks about the result he received, if he's telling the truth, it should make a lot of sense why he was only given one result.

I'm expendable, do what you need with me. But I think that I should either help confirm or discredit Yaw now that I'm outed. If Yaw is telling the truth, then we need people helping to ensure that Yaw remains alive.

[pablito]

I don't know if I can confirm nor deny that. And I don't really care to find out if I can reveal that as I don't see the pertinence of discovering the information for game-purposes (aside from verification of a person).

[pablito]

I agree, I think I'm a decent option for lynching today. I can't say I'm worth saving even though I know I'm innocent. I'm just against not getting the proper information from me before I'm gone. I think the town can get more information through a night phase soon. We're on page 33 on day one still.

[pablito]

I actually did ask, just waiting now.

[pablito]

So basically we're all suspecting me because of one really bad post I made and we're just going to stick with it because there's really no other better plan (and subsequently all other better suspects have better roleclaims). If someone still truly suspects that I'm scum, I'd like to hear some insight into how I've defended myself regarding my "I don't support a Glork nor Vaughn lynch" stance. We all seem to be still on me only because of the original post but not how I've acted since then.

I really don't like Drummer's "let Pablito off the hook" statement. I mean seriously, when all the votes were racked up on me, I was away for maybe a day or two and then I came back. I think I was an easy target and quite easily some scum were adding onto my wagon.

Also, should I (and when if so) reveal my night choice and what is Yaw's opinion on this?

[pablito]

Uh...you do know that attempting to divert attention onto another player is scummy, right?

Yes I know. I don't deny that I've appeared scummy many times today. At least you've explained why I still remain appearing scummy in others' eyes.

[pablito]

For Yaw, should it happen that there is a tie cop vote - multiple investigations occur between all highest vote getters. Oddly, there was no tie vote last night and that's why you received only one investigation (if you really are the cop information receiver). Personally, I would've thought that with no basis to go on, there would have easily been multiple investigations. Why you received only one result makes me weary. And it's partially why I suspected you earlier. But I doubt scum would've known that there existed a cop information receiver, so I'm not going to doubt you anymore. Or it's not worth it to me to doubt you. But the whole mafia masonry comment earlier makes me doubt your sense of logic. Of course, maybe unless Yaw really is mafia and is on the cop committee. But I don't think it's worth it to chance it.

As for the cop tie vote thing. Suppose there was no one that received more than one vote, this means there would be many multiple investigations (to my understanding). This can be advantageous to the town. I had hoped that last night we would've gotten that, but we didn't - according to Yaw.

If you've got more questions or if you want me to reveal my night choice, please let me know. I hope this jumpstarts the game again.

[pablito]

But I wanna know why pablito considers himself expendable.

I thought that there were possibly more than three cops. If there aren't, then no I'm not expendable, and plus the more cops there are (or at least an even number of them), the more chance we have for tie votes. Nonetheless, the day seems to be going nowhere so I felt that night needed to come even if it came at the cost of me. I'd rather not be lynched anymore though.

[pablito]

I hope I'm not the only.

[pablito]

yeah, most votes.

What do you guys think about me making my night choice public before twilight? that could possibly prevent a tie from happening, but it also might give too much information to scum, etc. But it could also help confirm me for the investigation receiver.

[pablito]

Will not then. Just thought I'd throw the idea out there.

[pablito]

unvote: lordy, vote: mudbuck

You really come out of the blue to suggest really opportunistic vote wagons don't you. Other than that, I really don't know what mudbuck does in this game.

[pablito]

ow.

unvote: mudbuck, vote: Glork

:p

[pablito]

It's actually something I've wanted to do for a while today. You just seem a bit off. My gut says you need to be pressured.

[pablito]

Try to do something productive.

The bureacracy in this town and the claims make every single move inefficient and relatively unproductive. I think the most productive move this town can make is to lynch someone quickly now - even if it ends up being me.

[pablito]

I don't think vanilla townies would become replacements, if anything, I would rather think they'd be called the backup-committee. I find this role claim highly questionable - but of all claims today, this is the most expendable.

@slaking, is there any mention of what happens to the original committee if the "vanilla townie" who replaces into the committee dies? Also does this mechanism extend to anti-town committees?

[pablito]

Thanks for the clarification. hrm.

[pablito]

vote: slaking_master

Since you've said there are no true vanilla townies in this game, I don't feel bad voting for you. Even if you are telling the truth, I wouldn't want you, a risk for vig NKs and lynches, to be "randomly chosen" as the sole replacement for a doctor or cop.

Also, regarding the cop committee I claim to be in. Only one cop was killed. The other was a special cop called the County Sheriff. This gives me hope that there still exists at least one other cop. Or that the County Sheriff had nothing to do with the results that Yaw gets.

[pablito]

consider lordy as a lurker worth vigging. he says he's always scum anyway.

[pablito]

Glork, it is my opinion that Rosso was not the cop result receiver, although it sucks if he was. You are entitled to your opinion. I still hold reservations on Yaw being cop result receiver because I still find it highly unlikely that there was only one cop investigation yesterday - but based on what Yaw has said, I see a possibility that Yaw has completely told the truth of his role.

[pablito]

I'm not getting such a good vibe on Nightson, I'd like to suggest him as a vig target.

Nightson was quick on the Mariyta wagon I started and both he and Masterchief gave me bad vibes for how they jumped onto the wagon.

I think we should consider having both Borge and Maritya target seperate people. This would establish if there was any difference in kill methods, and it would also validate both of them and not allow a scum to hide behind a actual vig. Afterwards we can switch them back to targeting the same person.

While this would possibly "validate both of them", it's at a loss of two people - likely pro-town, and I think with so many early kills, this was a bad suggestion back then and still is now with so many roles revealed.

Well, I just thought Pablito was being a little strange, but after PJ's post I'll vote: Pablito

He was on my bandwagon, and those people are evil I say, EVIL.

I just think that his timing for everything has been impeccable and convenient more than anything else.

[pablito]

Okay, let's forget the whole number of roles revealed. Any plan which advocates more killing by supposedly pro-town claims is not necessarily a good idea. Especially if we're trying to figure out who's lying. There is now way to validate a role if we're trying to figure out if someone is scum or not. Scum can always lie. And considering that we were having trouble figuring out vig targets back then as we are now - such a plan for separate vig targets was bad.

While it's likely Masterchief could be pro-town, it's still unproven.

[pablito]

It would be nice if Masterchief was scum and got himself modkilled.

Nightson, the main thing I had with you was not your arguments at face level, but the fact that you always seem to come in at the right time with moves that advance people toward inevitable lynches. And then you pretty much disappear without a trace until the next opportunity arises. You arrive only to poke and then you hide before someone hits you back. It means you instigate. And that feels scummy to me.

And, Nightson, who is your suggestion for vigging?

[pablito]

Also - is anyone going to bother to vote for a mayor tonight?

[pablito]

Mod

how many to lynch? Page 1 says 20 alive, 19 to lynch. This page says 20 alive, 9 to lynch.

[pablito]

I will reveal my night choices if Yaw is willing to reveal any.

[pablito]

raj can be totally telling the truth about getting the spyglasses and investigating whomever, but it can never prove him to pro-town. Scum can even receive items from an inventor. Nonetheless, raj sounds legit about his spyglasses.

[pablito]

I'm extremely worried about Yaw getting only one result. There's no reason why we should be having ties both times. This leads me to believe that either Yaw is lying, the cops are mostly targetting the same person, I'm the only cop left or I'm lying. I know option four is not true. I'm thinking option two or three is the most likely answer. I think by the end of the day, we need to resolve this one result thing. But I think it should slide until later today, since it's likely this will always be an issue.

The lack of deaths means that people with night choices have chosen wisely. This makes me feel better.

I'm also not happy about the 9 to lynch thing. I think having a mayor in the future may be a good thing to have normal number for lynch.

[pablito]

Vote: Glork

this is a holdover from last day. I don't really have a reason either, just my gut.

[pablito]

1.) Yosarian2 - Town Vigilante - I said he was probably town (CORRECT)
2.) Bogre - Town Vigilante - I said he was probably town, because I didn’t like the way people were jumping on his wagon (CORRECT)
3.) Masterchief - RoleBlocker - I said he was probably town, because I didn’t like the way people were jumping on his wagon (CORRECT)
4.) Slaking_Master - Scum [Syndicate Goon] - I said I wanted him dead (CORRECT)
5.) Lordy - Scum [Syndicate Goon] - I directed the Vig on him during twilight (CORRECT)

I don't sense that PJ is anti-town or Coron is anti-town at this very moment, but I feel the need to interject before PJ's runs too far off with this hubris.

I'll give you numbers 1-3 with little reservation. Nonetheless, there were other bandwagons yesterday in which you stayed with the bandwagon even though we did not lynch these people (Yaw and me particularly). If you felt that the way that people were jumping on these wagons were justified, then what made them so different from the other wagons? If you were able to sense this, then perhaps we should all go revisit these bandwagons to see if there were particular people whose votes were the most scummy.

#4 - well if hypothetically you and slaking were scum partners, or anyone with slaking for that matter - I would say that you'd want slaking dead as well, because he particularly didn't have a good claim and wasn't defending himself perfectly. Wanting someone dead may show pro-town intentions, but it can't confirm towniness.

#5 - yes you did. but lordy was lurking. He wasn't participating and if someone had to be vigged, it seemed the general consensus is to vig someone who wouldn't add much to the game. lordy was shown to be the worst lurker out of everyone. Your spidey sense did not see that lordy was scum, statistics of who had been posting more is what got lordy vigged. Again, if you were scum partners (which I find highly unlikely), it's a worthy bus moment. And if you get to point out that you directed Mari (or whomever vigged lordy) toward lordy, I'd like to point out that I voted lordy in the day and was THE FIRST to suggest lordy as a vig possibility. I'd have pushed further if I hadn't gone on the warpath against Nightson and mudbuck.

PJ, your record is impressive in this game. But I just want to point out that it's a bit of a botched statistic, because we can't prove towniness of other people you've defended and we still can't prove towniness of other significant wagons yesterday (Yaw and me). You were extremely vocal on Yaw (and I am still as well), but if Yaw is pro-town, that shows you haven't been batting 1000 yet. It's just that you're lucky that everyone who's dead is exactly the same alignment you said they were. Yeah, and you REALLY wanted me dead too. I know you're not batting 1000, because I know I'm pro-town. You have a great record compared to all others in this game, but as Coron already pointed out, there's a possibility of multiple scum groups. People who take out scum may really just be on an opposite scum group. Nonetheless, I feel PJ is likely town and at the least has been acting extremely pro-town and should not be a lynch target any time soon. Nonetheless, we can't prove his towniness through his past actions...yet.

[pablito]

Glork, you're not worth it to save yourself. Why are you so much more important that you'd roleblock the vig just to save yourself? You haven't proven yourself as pro-town and I don't see why you're so exceptional. Having only one roleblocker is decent for the town, we don't particularly need two right now.

I will not reveal my night choices now that Glork has asked for them. I would've before, but not when one of my top suspects requests it. I urge Yaw to follow suit. However, I would not mind if Yaw alludes to the nature of his night choices or his reactions to them. But I do not want Yaw to give names, as I will not.

Nonetheless, If Glork isn't lynched or vigged today, I won't whine. Maybe Glork can try to confirm himself by blocking Mariyta if he wants, it'd be a waste of roleblocking though. I find it questionable why he's so sure that blocking Mariyta will stop her action though. So far it's still not completely certain how her role fully works. And I don't see how Max (as his current claim outlines) is another killer, pro-town or anti-town.

But Glork, how can you attack Yaw but deny me the honor of being attacked as well? Weren't you the first to be attacking my flawed logic last day? Why is it that you seem to be setting up Yaw as scum but fail to add me in as a possible scum buddy who will fake results to make Yaw look better? I would've thought that could be one of your possibilities.

[pablito]

That probably has to do with the fact that you're a cop and not a roleblocker. I'm rather sure of how my role works. I'm rather sure of how my commitee works. Thus, I'm rather sure that if Mariyta is roleblocked, she will not kill me. Is that really so hard to understand?

I know this is just wild speculation, and I can't be bothered to re-read Mariyta's claim, but there is still possibilities that she's unblockable, that her vigs go through an intermediary or that she is unwittingly part of a committee and that she's just been lucky to have voted with the majority both times. There's still a lot of things that might allow a Mariyta vigs Glork to go through despite you successfully roleblocking Mariyta. I'm kinda getting at the point that there's no way to speculate how other peoples' roles work in this game and thus we shouldn't be making hasty assumptions. Right?

Glork please get over yourself this game though. You're a little too arrogant for my tastes and maybe it's just your passion to find scum (which would be indicative of pro-towniness) but I find it offputting and misguiding.

[pablito]

If I die, it'll be via lynching or a mafia nightkill.

But I'll be DAMNED if I die before I find some more scumbags.

And it all starts with Yaw.

How can you say that Glork is acting pro-town when he (see underlined) is playing the game for himself and only secondarily for the town? I thought this game was about the town trying to find scum. If this game was "everyone help Glork find scum so he can claim moral victory", I might not have signed up. Note that this is consistent with my "expendability" statement yesterday about myself. I wish Glork would show a little more humility than this.

I'm keeping my vote, but my view on Glork is now toggling despite this latest display.

[pablito]

Drummer, before you finish your claim, do you want to revise it to include information that's been given out about other roleblockers first? Or shall we just assume that you know nothing about the other roleblockers and are trying to frame Vaughn?

[pablito]

Also, Pablito's argument against Glork saving himself is silly.

Yeah, but if by some chance he's a mafia roleblocker, I think it's worth a try to anger him enough to get himself offed. I know, tough chance, but it's worth a try.

You wouldn't be the first to feel disgruntled with my playstyle.

Mildly disgruntled, I still like you Glork. And PJ too, but PJ today has definitely irked me more today.

We don't need to test Yaw today by him revealing any results. I'll explain later.

[pablito]

Yeah, but look, we're flush with roleblockers these days! We can afford to lose one or two or so.

Btw, shouldn't Max confirm the Raj glasses sometime soon?

[pablito]

Guess I never said it explicitly, cops do not receive results. And I trust Yaw. I can't confirm him, nor do I find it necessary to try, but I trust him.

[pablito]

1) Do you think you're the only cop left?
2) I understand Yaw's line of thinking about giving not giving RESULTS (scum get a target list), but is there a reason not to give out who you'll investigate in the coming night, assuming the answer to #1 is no?

1) My opinion is no.
2) Read what Yaw said above. And plus, I am only one in a committee. The committee decides who is investigated, and even if I announce my night choice, there is no guarantee that what I vote for is what the cop result receiver will get. The other cop votes can override me.

[pablito]

Is it already a forgone conclusion that Drummer's dead? If so, are we voting for a mayor tonight?

[pablito]

Cool, I've never heard of that role before. It must be AWESOME. Please tell us how it works.

[pablito]

Please do Drummer. As long as you don't mention any flavor. I'm sure you can at least tell us how the role works. I did it for you. Your turn to reciprocate. It'll be fun!

Also, what's your "role simplification"?

[pablito]

Just for that, Drummer, I'd unvote you if I was actually voting for you.

[pablito]

Pro-town or anti-town, if Drummer's the only parasite, it might be best for the town to get rid of the role while we can. No need for previous roleclaims to change. Anyway, stealing Drummer's role was stupid, Vaughn.

@Vaughn, can you tell us when you "stole" Drummer's role? AND WHY DRUMMER?


Glork: Yaw might be full of shit, but from what I've read, I doubt Rosso was the result receiver.

That probably has to do with the fact that you're a roleblocker and not a cop.

If he was, "county sheriff" was a very bad role simplification on the count of the mod.

Even still, I might've figured out one of Yaw's results based on his actions, this is what makes me trust him. And it would also explain why he might've gotten just one result on that night.

[pablito]

unvote, vote: Drummer

[pablito]

Oh Glork, thank you for apologizing for NOT outing Vaughn, one of few people you protected from claiming. No wait better yet, just recognize that your scumdar has been off days one and two because you ended up outing a cop or doc (ME - you pushed my wagon) which is exactly what you were trying not to do day one. I will not trust your instincts this game anymore.

Drummer needs to be lynched and Vaughn vigged. There exists the possibility that the parasites are not a cult and its just what they describe and maybe even they're pro-town. Nonetheless, we cannot take the chance of Drummer getting another night choice and we need to take out Vaughn for security purposes in the case it's a cult or worse. Furthermore, Mariyta does need to make a choice anyway and Vaughn's a good a choice as any.

And I'm very certain that one of Yaw's results matches up with one of my night choices. I'm taking a big chance that my senses are right, but I do not see how it doesn't make sense. I have to trust Yaw until he proves me wrong, and so far he has.

Also, Glork, one of your points is that the county sheriff seems like the person who receives the cop results, but isn't it also possible that the county sheriff gets the results of a tracker or gunsmith (or any other information role) committee perhaps?

[pablito]

Ha ha,

I have to trust Yaw until he proves me wrong, and so far he

has

hasn't

.

[pablito]

vig Vaughn, please. He's at risk for being infected plus if he is a roleblocker, we might be able to find out more about mudbuck's and Glork's claims. I think one or more scum are on the roleblocker claim and it's better to weed the scummiest. If Vaughn turns out not-roleblocker, then I can feel easier about keeping Glork alive. Plus, the town already has a roleblocking action through voting for mayor. The roleblockers have the most expendable night action. If Vaughn is a pro-town roleblocker now, we aren't losing much. Plus he already said he's won, so he'd be at peace with being removed. It's a no-lose situation for us. If he already won, he's at no interest to help the town win.

I suggest we do not have Mariyta be mayor. I think Vaughn should be dead and we need to be sure of it. Mariyta needs her night choice tonight. I think I might vote pj for mayor. I don't think he's certainly town, but I wouldn't mind if he has a higher lynch limit for tomorrow.

[pablito]

Well Mariyta, it's better to keep options open for you as remaining not-mayor, but good point. But with dwindling numbers, mayors are good. I'd suggest Glork for mayor again, but I think he wants a night choice. Max for mayor doesn't seem like a horrible decision either. Who knows if he's actually going to pay attention and submit a night choice anyway. I'm just trying to gather support around a mayor no matter who it is so that we actually get one.

[pablito]

Wait, WTH, what's the vote count? Let's spring into action people. PJ might've just hammered.

[pablito]

I'm thinking mari's right and she might be the right choice for mayor. We just need her to vig today, tomorrow's still far off.

[pablito]

We're almost to the point where night should happen. We just need to all synchronize ourselves. (and to give an opportunity to deal with the Max business)

[pablito]

oh, and raj should comment about the day too, considering he has an innocent result. So Max and raj are the only two issues we hadn't yet dealt with.

[pablito]

I said it before, and I choose to retain this option:

I will not reveal my night choices now that Glork has asked for them. I would've before, but not when one of my top suspects requests it.

Just because Glork gets to be quoted on the front page of the newspaper, it doesn't mean I trust him more.

[pablito]

vote: raj

let's do it.

there's still a lot to be discussed today, though.

[pablito]

I didn't want raj to be investigated last night.

[pablito]

Why do I have to explain it to you, of all people?

[pablito]

For Glork. A hypothesis.

In a hypothetical situation, let's say Glork is a roleblocker and let's say Vaughn is a parasite who turned into a roleblocker (of whose win condition we are not sure).

Glork votes to roleblock some random person, let's say it was PJ just for now.
Vaughn votes to roleblock Mariyta to protect his win condition or to confirm himself (which is a theory we can throw out now).
mudbuck doesn't vote to roleblock (to be discussed later).
all remaining roleblockers either forgot to vote or helped tie up the choice.

There's a tie vote. Well I'm not a roleblocker so I don't know how this all works, but let's hypothesize that if there's a tie roleblocker vote, all night choices are roleblocked.

That means PJ (or whoever Glork voted) and Mariyta were successfully roleblocked. That would mean Vaughn is still alive.

Now, I've said before that the roleblockers are one of the most expendable night choice committees (sad but fact) since the mayoral position can act as a quasi-roleblock, albeit one with obvious drawbacks. So the roleblocker committee could feasibly only have three members instead of more like the other regular committees because they don't have as much power.

I think Vaughn is lying about his no-action and mudbuck/Glork is lying about being a roleblocker. That is one possible theory of how Vaughn is alive. The only other way is by some other blocking mechanism (Max or some other role) or by doctors inexplicably choosing to protect Vaughn or by Mariyta lying about her role.

Fact is, Vaughn is alive and that means someone with a claimed role lied. Mariyta has claimed two scum kills, so I'm more inclined to believe her. Vaughn lying is the more likely possibility - but that means that either he has some sole power that he used himself or someone manipulated the roleblocker committee to help him.

[pablito]

Yes I sent raj as my night choice. I didn't think we'd get a guilty, but I thought it necessary to confirm his alignment before he revealed his spyglasses results. That's my reason.

[pablito]

WTF? Try saying that again, mudbuck. And give reasons.

[pablito]

thanks for claiming, chamber, but still, not cool.

mudbuck, WHY BLOCK GLORK? especially after you claimed him as innocent earlier. There needs to be very good logic behind that night choice.

[pablito]

unvote

numbers are getting too high too fast. we might be at lynch -2 or something already.

[pablito]

I think Vaughn is lying about his no-action and mudbuck/Glork is lying about being a roleblocker. That is one possible theory of how Vaughn is alive. The only other way is by some other blocking mechanism (Max or some other role) or by doctors inexplicably choosing to protect Vaughn or by Mariyta lying about her role.

It seems as though you've pulled it up out of nowhere.

Honestly, I did. Just don't shake my hand. But it happened to elicit answers to the roleblocking night choices - which I find surprising. Vaughn chose nothing, Mudbuck chose you, You chose MBL. You're barely a committee even when a vig says they'll take out one of you. I suppose if Mariyta in the future says she'll take out one of you again, she'll actually get through because you guys can't coordinate with each other to protect the committee. Or, as I am currently hypothesizing, Mudbuck is scum and is backtracking now. And that's why you guys can't coordinate a roleblock. I thought one of you guys was scum and you couldn't figure it out.

Even with raj at five votes, I won't add my vote back on. (Thanks, nightson) I think there's still more to discuss today and I don't want a repeat of yesterday. Please read yesterday before lynch, where I panicked and said I wanted answers from Max and

raj

. And you guys thought I hadn't chosen raj for investigation?

[pablito]

What? It's not alright if I don't want to reveal my night choice because Glork and Nightson wanted it that badly? I only gave up when Yaw demanded it too. I wanted to see their reactions to how I did things, and I think I elicited some reactions at least.

I wanted to see who would immediately trust Yaw and who wouldn't.

[pablito]

So if we think that Vaughn is cultist, we need to kill him sooner than later right? I think we need to settle this Vaughn situation now before we go to night.

[pablito]

Vaughn, are there any restrictions on stealing roles. IE: were there any roles that are unstealable? or conditions that would make it so that Drummer couldn't have stolen a role (had he stayed alive)?

[pablito]

so chamber? what's the reasoning behind saving Vaughn?

[pablito]

What's the use in investigating Vaughn? If we keep him alive, he's at the top of Mariyta's list anyway. No matter what we find out about Vaughn, he's either going to be an easy lynch sooner or later or an easy vig target sooner or later or if he's investigated as innocent, he's an easy mafia kill sooner or later.

Raj needs to be taken out because we could possibly get rid of one night kill. The only reason why I've wanted to see some discussion on Vaughn was to see who might want to distract from the more obvious raj lynch.

I have to doubt that Vaughn is a cult leader or anything of the such.

[pablito]

we get to find out whether or not there's a cult running around.

Well, if you agree that there's two anti-town killing groups (with neither being an SK), you'll find that there's too much scum existing to have a cult around - that would make a town win impossible.

But I don't know how much scum there are. Maybe raj can enlighten us.

[pablito]

If you want to believe that I'm cop, I would prefer to not investigate chamber. I do not see how his play seems scummy. I could be convinced though.

Glork, do you really believe that I'm going to listen to you for investigation help? Nonetheless, I can always be outvoted by other cops.

[pablito]

Heh, honestly though, I might actually go re-read Glork to see if the argument on Nightson is as strong as he presents. I'd find a Nightson investigation more worthy than a Vaughn one.

[pablito]

Sheesh, it happens again. what's with this Nightson-Sarcastro link. There's gotta be something I don't know about.

[pablito]

I really want someone to unvote raj.
We are not done discussing this day and we need leeway.

We need to decide a mayor at least, and that requires more discussion. I suggest Vaughn. It's clear that if Vaughn needs to be lynched, pretty much everyone would be willing to vote him out, even other scum groups. And that prevents us from needing to roleblock him all the time. It gives us Mariyta's forced vig kill back. I'm also undecided on who I want to vote to investigate tonight although it seems that circumstance once again will choose for me instead of my gut.

Thank you Glork for that argument.

[pablito]

ah, they've sandwiched me! I've lost all sense of which one is which!

[pablito]

if there's a forced vig, the target is obviously Vaughn. he's the best choice as any. It stops confusing our roleblockers and he's likeliest to be scum.

[pablito]

Hehe, Glork's inadvertently trying to stay alive.

Anyway, Glork, when did I become pro-town with you?

[pablito]

One thing I do know, though, is that Pablito should *NOT* reveal his investigation target beforehand. It gives the scum a pretty easy target, depending on who Pab picks to investigate.

If I'm on the record, I'm investigating Vaughn
If I'm off the record, I'm investigating myself to see the cop sanity. And plus, other cops that are out there would want to vote me anyway since I look so damn suspicious.

[pablito]

So discussion, Mariyta for mayor again? Or Vaughn mayor-blocking plan? or re-elect Glork?

Last time I mentioned someone for mayor during last second, he got killed. So maybe we can get rid of one of my suspects tonight.

[pablito]

actually, good point on the vacation stuff.

all we got to do now is decide whether we want to lynch vaughn or raj.

Also Yaw, last chance for input on who or other cops may choose.

[pablito]

vote: raj

[pablito]

Thanks Glork

[pablito]

If you still need confirmation on me, I can give you Yaw's N1 investigation results.

[pablito]

Let's all talk about Vaughn again!

Vaughn what was your night choice?

[pablito]

This is what you get for making it obvious who you're going to investigate the day before, Pablito. I don't know why you got a guilty on me, but I assume that one of the mafiosi has a framing power.

I'd like a little more explanation to this, Sarc. What do you hypothesize happened regarding my night choice and what the mafia did to change things around. I've never heard of framing powers before, so I'm a bit confused right now.

Also, chamber, let's hear more from you. You did something odd yesterday and I'd just like to know if you intended to do something similar today.

[pablito]

Less votes, more conversation. I mean, come on, we've been waiting how long for night to be over with and now we're trying to go back to night all over again?

[pablito]

On the plus side, if there are only 7 scum total (2 parties of three and the parasite), we're down to one remaining. Seeing there have been fewer and fewer NKs even with dwindling doctors, I'm hoping this assumption is correct.

When's a time for mass-claiming anyway?

Also, let's clear up some chamber and Vaughn business today. Are we going to ignore it forever or are we seriously considering that one or both is scum?

I have to believe chamber is pro-town. No scum has shown any extra abilities so far. And chamber admitted to having some extra ability. And so far the cop investigations have gone through every single time - so the possibility of a mafia roleblocker is near nil.

I worry about the existence of a GF since the dead mafia are listed as "syndicate goons". I don't believe that the innocent investigations were GFs though.

As for the mayoral race, considering that scum aren't as influential in lynches anymore, we might not need a mayor tonight. The decreased 'votes to lynch' isn't going to hurt us as much as before.

[pablito]

Errr...armlx, why aren't you pushing harder to vote off Vaughn if you still believe there's a parasite cult?

[pablito]

when have we confirmed this?

[pablito]

When have we confirmed that Vaughn is a recruiter and when have we confirmed that the claimed roleblockers are actually roleblocking? I see your point, but there's no 100% certainty.

[pablito]

But I want her to vig people...come on, Yaw. Hmm...but I suppose a late-game vigilante is the most worthy of protecting right now.

[pablito]

goon vs. godfather - that's how I came up with that conclusion, Glork. I've only seen mafia listed as goons when there's an hierarchy involved. I might be assuming too much, but I feel it's better to assume the worst earlier than later.

I think a Vaughn and chamber vigging can clear up a lot of uncertainty the town might have. I'd rather not waste an investigation on them because I'm certain it's not going to do us any favors (ie: likely innocent). At the same time, they're clearly not helping the town at all and there's a chance they're parasitic or covering up their true alignments right now.

[pablito]

We're just missing chamber and mudbuck right? everyone else has posted?

[pablito]

I'm guessing we're going for a Mariyta for Mayor and Block Vaughn campaign.

Any input on the cop investigation? I'm kinda lost for this one.

[pablito]

please unvote. let's wait for the prods to go through before Sarc tries to pull a slaking self-hammer.

[pablito]

Ha, funny, because that's how I landed on Sarcastro. Except I kinda changed everyone's name to Sarcastro temporarily and manipulated the list so there was only one entry and I made a one-sided die in my mind...because I realized that a one-sided die in reality would've been too tough to make if I wanted it to stay on the table.

[pablito]

so Eon, who do you suspect, you haven't said much this entire game. Or at least most of your suspects are either dead or on their way to death already.

[pablito]

No the list isn't accurate, Vaughn is a claimed ex-parasite now roleblocker.

Goat, why bother even ask that question, I don't get what you're thinking and what you'll accomplish if I even bother answer the question.

[pablito]

there have been four investigations idiot.

[pablito]

I want goat's fourth choice and I want the other cop to come out, it's not like we're all at risk of being wiped out on the same night either.

[pablito]

Well it's because you're scum.

[pablito]

Goat, as I'm currently interpreting you, we have you/Blackberry investigating:

N1 - you'll find out
N2 - Coron
N3 - Glork
N4 - Nightson

right?

If so, that makes me think a little bit more.

Can we all agree to not lynch someone until the third cop comes forward? We need to settle this now before we go to night. I see possibilities where Goat is telling the truth, but I just see more where he's lying. I need the third cop's night choices to know what's going on. Yaw should NOT reveal any of his night choices or allude to any more until Goat, me and the third cop figure out what the night results were. I fear that the Goat is just fishing for some innocents and Yaw saying anything might give it away. All we have to do is figure out if the third cop's results match mine.

I find no reason to completely doubt the Goat until I hear the third cop's results. And we can wait right?

[pablito]

We haven't head more than two deaths per night since N1, we are at no risk. We must settle this before we go to night and we lose a claimed cop. Because then we can't figure everything out correctly.

We can figure things out today before lynching, we don't need to rely on night results to get the same thing. There should be no reason why we can't out the third cop.

[pablito]

The Goat, can you at least confirm for me which night you investigated people or at least tell me if this is correct:

N1 - waiting for mod confirmation
N2 - Coron
N3 - Glork
N4 - Nightson

Because then I can definitely trust your words more if I know the above is correct.

[pablito]

good. I'd still like the third cop to come forward because I don't want scum to suddenly claim that part tomorrow before the real third cop comes forward. I'm just trying to prevent a scum cop-counterclaim tomorrow.

[pablito]

I see no benefit to keeping the third cop hidden anymore. If people really thought about the nature of the cop committee, it's better to get everything into the open sooner than later.

[pablito]

Maybe it might help if people claim "not cop" that way we can isolate the third live cop sooner than later.

From our records Vaughn, Glork, mudbuck, Yaw, Mariyta and Sarcastro already claimed not being a cop. And pablito and The Goat have claimed cop. That leaves Nightson, olio, chamber, armlx, MrBuddyLee, Eon and al_kohaulec.

[pablito]

So we're down to olio, armlx, MrBuddyLee or Eon for claiming cop or not-cop.

[pablito]

2) Pablito: are you absolutely, positively sure about the bolded part?

For Yaw, should it happen that there is a tie cop vote -

multiple investigations occur between all highest vote getters

...

Yes I'm very sure about that, why does it make a difference to you?

Also I'd like to know the reasons behind your investigation choices, I wouldn't be against sharing my reasons for investigation choices either.

[pablito]

damn, that's a rare tag mishap from pablito.

[pablito]

I'm only confirming N3 and N4 for now.

olio and Goat's choices make no sense at all. I'm guessing it's a scum gambit, but it's a fairly stupid one if it is. Otherwise we don't all understand our actual roles...because I know Yaw knows that I know both of his unrevealed choices. He's hinted at both of them before, and we both communicated to each other the N1 choice by our actions. And I picked up on his subtle defenses of his N2 result during D2.

But there is no doubt in my mind that Yaw did not get their results. I have an alternate hypothesis, but I want to see what others say before I mention it.

Yaw should still not reveal results until we talk about the alternate hypothesis.

[pablito]

olio why Sarcastro on N4 btw?

[pablito]

Glork, don't worry, 12 hours and I'll deliver everything you want.

[pablito]

But please don't get modkilled for revealing flavor, because you'll want to see the fireworks when I post later tomorrow.

[pablito]

I will reveal all before we go to night.

[pablito]

Hm, with two extra "claimed cops" what are the thoughts on a mass claim - pretty much half of the town has already outed themselves, might as well do it at this crucial point.

[pablito]

Also if anyone else wants to unvote right now, that might be helpful. There's just way too much to process before we go to night. I'd rather we extend this current discussion.

[pablito]

Mariyta, Yaw knows that the person I chose N2 was partly so that I could prove myself as cop. It was a choice that was made to purposely get a tie vote and it's a choice that only I could've done (therefore scum would've never been able to guess it and fake their night choices).

The only thing I worry about is the suggestion that the Goat brought up, which is that Yaw chooses which one result he gets. But it doesn't make sense why Yaw would've chosen my choices each and every night (because my N2 was a selfish choice). But I am now doubting that and have an even better suggestion. Let me just refine the post that I already made last night.

[pablito]

Well Glork, I'm pretty much going to mass-claim for everyone anyway. So I say the rest should fill in the blanks because they'll have a storm to explain once I'm done.

Olio and The Goat have to be cops for two reasons:

1) Why would olio post such discrepant night choices from mine when he knew what my N3 and N4 choices were already. Scum couldn't be so stupid to admit to night choices that were so different from my proven guilty results. There was no reason why olio or the goat as scum wouldn't have admitted to investigating raj on N3.

2) Having only two cops and one cop result receiver is a bit weak when it's already been shown that we already have had three vigs and four doctors and four roleblockers (an assumption). Yes we have had three vigs: Yosarian, mariyta and Bogre. They three each targetted separate people N1 and that's what cause 5 deaths - 3 forced vigs and 2 killing parties. With Bogre and Yosarian dead by N2, we only had Mariyta vigging for us and that's what caused less deaths and a better kill vig rate. (side note: Max's inventor gifts were one-shot abilities he could give to anyone - when he targetted Pooky it would have given Pooky the ability to RB someone that night or in any future night)

3) We still have some unclaimed roles, but we've never resolved Rosso's role by the way, and I think I know why...

I think that Olio and The Goat are cops and it's quite unfortunate that their cop result receiver Rosso Carne was killed early on. This is why their investigations have never gone anywhere. Or...even better...we still might have a second results receiver STILL ALIVE. If the other cop result receiver is still alive, that could give us an added hit in endgame. Therefore, I suggest Olio and The Goat don't reveal further night choices until we have someone claim second cop result receiver.

Kanaga and I report to Yaw and that's why Yaw has only received one result each night despite the scatter of all three cops. Furthermore, it's why only I have known his investigations. I've also lied a bit and said that I thought that there were a few more cops. I've known for a while that Yaw has been receiving my results only. It makes sense that there were two cop committees (probably the other having a different sanity) because if all cops reported to the same receiver all scum would have to do is take out the one receiver.

I decided to act a bit questionable and act as if Yaw's results didn't come from my night choices so that scum would purposely target Yaw instead of me. Why? Because Yaw was likely doc protected and scum wouldn't want to kill me because I'd still be a possible future lynch - plus they thought I didn't know Yaw's results so Yaw was higher priority. But being the only one sending in choices for Yaw's results, I knew that if either of us ever died, it would kill the only investigation team around. Furthermore, I was lucky enough to received a first aid kit from Max the inventor the night he died. I haven't used it yet, but I intend to use it on someone tonight. Max likely believed that using an invention on someone would mean that Max targetted that player with that ability. Rather, Max gave someone a one-shot. He might've thought that he gets to RB Pooky, or that he gets to investigate raj, but it wasn't that way.

Therefore Olio and the goat are cops and they have not lied. At first I believed that their timing was perfect because mafia planned to kill off Yaw tonight (due to another doctor dying...which is what they've done every single time a doc dies and thus we always have one less kill that night) - and they wanted to put themselves out there so that they can confuse the town and make sure that the town doesn't believe me. But now I'm very certain they're cops, no one knows where their results are going. Nonetheless, they're pretty much confirmed innocents in my eyes.

(to be continued)

[pablito]

Now here's where I point to three people I believe to be remaining scum (aside from the fairly obvious Sarcastro). If we can assume that chamber and Vaughn are not anti-town (at least for now), then that leaves us with a list of Nightson, armlx, MrBuddyLee, Eon and al_kohaulec. Luckily my short list of investigations yesterday consisted of: armlx, al_ko, Sarc and mudbuck. Sarc is a goner, I'm still reluctant to believe mudbuck is a RB but the numbers tell me he likely is. I believe Eon, al_kohaulec and armlx are likely the remaining scum.

I will provide evidence which makes me believe that three remaining scum are on that list of five.

I believe

Eon

is scum if for nothing else but this post:

Hrm its hard to say on which side he is but its going to be a bit bad, if Sarcastro is going to turn up doc that is. But well investigation told he might be the one...
This day wont have much discussion, because its already clear who is going to be lynched and why.
Vote:
Im going to believe Yaw on this, but if he is going to end up being doctor, that will be just sad!

Normally a blatant post like this is usually dripping in sarcasm. But then again this is Eon and there's still some language obstacles. Eon is putting on an act way too much and he's trying to look disappointed that we're lynching Sarcastro. He's reluctant to put his trust into us. I believe it's because he's scum. But then again, there isn't an abundance of evidence on him. But it's obvious Eon's not emanating pro-town vibes at all. Nonetheless, I don't get why he suddenly has distrust of Yaw even though raj was lynched as scum yesterday. Either bad pro-town or bad anti-town.

Also don't forget he did this before:

Hrm i guess i have to vote against someone ok then for now i will vote someone will less votes

/vote: rajrhcpfreak

Sorry but i have to vote =

That's likely distancing. I think Eon's the remaining syndicate goon, so why not lynch him today instead of Sarcastro. I think we can get rid of a NK that way. Also Eon has been pushing the idea of the "parasite cult" or "parasite committee". That's a bunch of bullshit, there is not a committee or a cult this game. There's a parasite or two, but scum keep pushing this agenda so we can get rid of them instead of focusing on the now fairly obvious scum.

al_kohaulec's

next. Earlier today I noticed that al_ko was way too helpful in early days and has kinda fell to the background as of late. He still helps but he's so under the radar. Even before I asked for suggestions of who to investigate, I knew I was going to pick al_ko anyway. Re-reading his posts in isolation, here's what I get:

Yaw, that logic would probably hold true if the vigges each hit randomly each night, and if the mafia randomly hit somebody not being hit be the vigges or in their own group. However being a vig allows for them to make an educated guess on who's likely to be scum and so whether they hit scum or town isn't entirely statistical. If 3 or 4 of those kills were all vigges, I'd say town has a very strong chance of winning. But I also doubt that that's so. I'd guess probably 2 at the most were from vigges, unless if somebody was given a one-shot kill. Two still might sound like too much though.

That above post makes sense and is logical. I even managed to explain it above that we had three vigs (pretty sure, but can't go 100% certain on that). But the fact that al_ko happens to fixate himself on this info probably means that he has something to do with those kills and he's wondering if that mass scatter-shooting will tend to hit scum like it did before.

Yes, we do need to discuss the vig situation, and possibly the mayor situation before we go to night. So far we've discussed making Mari mayor tonight, if we choose to have her vig a player, then obv we'll have to choose somebody else as mayor. If we don't decide on a player to elect vig tonight, we can just do Mari. If we find somebody to vig, then either

a.) If we decide not to lynch Yaw, then I'm assuming it's because the majority of the town believes his role, and it'll protect him from losing our cop results. Or
b.) We elect no mayor, because otherwise at this point I don't think I see a player trustworthy enough of the role.

al_ko manages to doubt Yaw and try to support voting him for mayor in the same post. While making Yaw mayor would've protected him, he would've been blocked from receiving results as well. Either this was good subtle manipulation or he was talking from a perspective where he doesn't care about Yaw (why? because al_ko's scum)

Also, revealing only one innocent result in this game isn't as bad in most mafia games IMO because the scum groups will either think:
a.) There's plenty of other scum groups to kill off that one confirmed player, or
b.) More than one scum group will target that player, and we'll likely get more than one kill directed towards that player, thus reducing our total deaths for one night.

the mayor thing would essentially work as a roleblock, and unless we decide on a player we truly want to be mayor (if we let Yaw live, I'd say Yaw), then I think you should be elected mayor to work as a roleblock, also because we don't know if we have roleblockers, and if we do, it'll leave them open to block other players.

Can't remember if I have yet or not, but

unvote: Yaw

elect for mayor tonight: Yaw

elect as possible runner up: Mari

(Just to make public mayor votes stand out before we vote for them at night.

With Yaw as mayor, (I can't remember, if you're in a group with say, the mafia, did it mention anything about still being able or not being able to talk with them?), then if he's an SK or something, we might be able to tell from the DP, and if he's what he says he is, it'll protect our cop results.

al_ko manages to fish a lot without looking like he's doing it. He tried to get Yaw to reveal his N1 result. btw, al_ko has been on the Yaw wagon...and then unvotes and then moves to blackberry/notforsaken/thegoat then later to me.

There's no point in risking killing a cop if we can test him first. As for SM, there seems to be some good points for voting him, but I'm going to have to try to look up some myself before I decide, but I'd rather see him lynched than the cop, even tough I left my vote on there for so long.

Back in D1, al_ko was justifying the length of his vote. No one was really suspecting so why did he say it back then?

In D2, al_ko kinda comments on PJ/Coron, which in retrospect is kinda funny since they were both on doctor committee. al_ko still pushes for Yaw to be vigged or lynched or looked at. al_ko couldn't let it go, which in my mind is more a pro-town tell.

Ah, I see what you mean by the rolestealer screwing up investigations. But as long as it passes amongst protown players, I don't see it hurting us any. I don't know if alignments would switch with this role or not, but if it does, the parasite role could be very devastating if a mafiate is targetted. He turns into a town aligned parasite... actually this would be reasoning to suggest the mafia don't know themselves either, which could mean mafia could accidentally kill themselves at night. I was going to say said mafiate could point out all the scum in his group, but since he can't if he doesn't know them, he can still point out the new mafiate since that person would've stolen his role.

I never liked this stance. al_ko as scum would've wanted a Drummer lynch because it distracts from mafia searching. Later, al_ko still pushes the cult idea.

I don't see how a cult would be responsible for those deaths, but there are many variants of a cult. Anyways, as for the extra deaths being due to Mari's role, I'm not entirely convinced that her role alone (or the multiple vigges) is what did it. I might be forgetting what our past vigges have claimed (who are now dead), but from what we know about committees, it sounds like we have only one target per committee. So since we know for sure (or pretty sure, since some people may argue this) that we have 2 mafia groups and a vig committee, I would assume that the other two kills from N1 were due to Serial Killers.

Well here's a very good scum tell. Despite al_ko previously resolving the number of deaths by counting vigs, he now conveniently changes his mind. Also al_ko was still pushing for me and Yaw to openly confirm each other. Fisher.

Hmm.. I'm starting to see Glork's reasoning here. Before I wasn't thinking about a cop investigation on Vaughn, as I was mostly seeing it as mostly a waste of an investigation. But I am seeing your point, and although I don't fully like the idea of using an investigation on Vaughn when I think an unkown is better, I will accept it, it probably is the better option. I will refrain from HAMMAHing though, since we still have a lot of discussion to do.

Glad I didn't investigate Vaughn. But that was subtle to try to convince me to investigate Vaughn - or even better to keep open the possibility of a cult.

someone (actually Nightson)
olio
chamber
armlx
mrbuddylee
eon
thegoat

This is the big one. I thought this list looked so wrong. One, because I don't really feel that Nightson is scum and also because in retrospect he's placing armlx and Eon down low. Furthermore he doesn't include Vaughn.

While there's no damning evidence on al_ko, my gut says he's trying too hard to appear town but he's subtly moved the town in ways to get us away from focusing on his scum group (Pooky's I believe).

Finally

armlx

PJ: I would have been more helpful, except I forgot the game existed for like 20+ pages Sad.

This whole exchange between Coron and PJ just seems odd to me. I've never seen Coron react in this manner, tho PJ does this a lot. That seems about enough for a vote for me.

Vote Coron

Also, FOS Glork for voting Raj. See my reasoning on the last page about this, especially that we are now working on actual good lynches.

Pseudo-Edit: I'm 100% sure Coron just madea huge scum tell. Since when was there 2 mafia groups? I think he was the first to mention it.

It's the pseudo-edit part that gets me. Attacking someone for that type of scum tell is generally a scum tell. Especially when that person is revealed as town. And he wasn't the first to mention it. Also that FOS was just odd. I don't think raj and armlx were partners, but I thought Glork was also voting Coron earlier that day, so I would've thought that Glork would've had more points in armlx's eyes.

The parasite role just seems odd and slightly cultish. It should prolly be looked into further soon, as if it is a cult the more time we give it the worse it gets. Right now I'm thinking something like the exact cult I used in Muppets mafia. It would explain the extra deaths N1 as well.

scum really like to push this cult thing. We've also explained the five deaths N1. Three forced vigs with no unity = scatter-death. Dead vigs yielded less deaths.

I think we should just get Vaughn out of the way. If he somehow manages to get one more night of recruit in, its automatically worse than a single mafia kill Raj would get. I'ld rather not take chances.

Just another point against Vaughn's role: If he stole a mafia's role, what would stop them from owning their old team?

I believe now that Vaughn was converted into pro-town. armlx pushing the cult thing further is only benefitting mafia.

Not to rain on your parade, what you are saying is in a 30 person game, less than 1/4 people is non-town. In a normal mini, I'm used to 1/3 being scum, and the same goes for large games. With 2 mafias, the amount is even larger. I'ld be willing to bet theres at least 4 mafia per side, the parasite cult, and at least one other neutral of some sort.

I attacked this post earlier. the parasite cult underpowers the town. What, we have a vig, two cops, one doc, one RB, one inventor and you expect us to take on 2 families of 4 PLUS a parasite cult? Unlikely.

Scum have taken the parasite cult rhetoric so far so that we leave them for later.

So if we take three scum alive, one in the noose and four dead plus the parasite we have 9 non pro-town players. Out of 30, that sounds about right. Therefore I believe we do not have a committee of parasites, and at most we had two parasites total in the game. If we had a second, we're on rough ground, but if we had a second one, they would've already hit a good role or a confirmed role. And that hasn't happened yet, so I doubt the existence of a second parasite. I hope that there aren't any SKs that have been refraining from killing lately. I'm taking assumptions on killing groups based on how many deaths we've had as of late.

I'm still unconvinced on chamber and mudbuck, but I think that there's enough on my list of three that I think we're good. I would've questioned Glork's existence up to this point still...but I've dropped him ever since he delivered on Sarcastro. The only way I see town losing is if Glork or mudbuck have embedded themselves so far in the town that we've completely oversought them.

But I feel very confident on al_ko and armlx being scum that I made this post just to show that.

And I think Eon is also likely scum.

Oh and so far no mafia have shown abilities, and furthermore Sarcastro was way too quick to come to the "framer" hypothesis. If he was telling the truth, he would've been more surprised and would've never come up with the framer hypothesis until someone else mentioned it.

[pablito]

it reveals flavor

[pablito]

the Goat, look at the N3 and N4 choices that have already been confirmed and give me a hypothesis that make sense unless I'm the only one that reports to Yaw.

I'd rather not play "let's match up PMs" because I don't like doing those kind of things. I'd rather we settle this with logic and intuition not let's hint as much from our PMs as possible without actually quoting it. Ruins the integrity of the game and I don't want to further reveal anything else about my PM.

No one else chose raj N3 but Yaw came out IMMEDIATELY and said that he got a guilty that night. That smells like a pablito-Yaw pair right there. Sorry, but it's the only way it can make sense.

[pablito]

EBWOP:

*No one else but me chose raj N3

[pablito]

Ah if Yaw is willing, I can confirm all four of his results and it could end your confusion, the Goat.

[pablito]

Also, if as I theorize we are different sets of cops, our PMs may be different, so that ruins your plan. And as I said, no one else chose raj N3 so it confirms that I'm the cop...unless of course you want to believe that someone else chose raj and there's a choice switcher or another cop out there.

[pablito]

If Yaw was the only results receiver and all these cops survived all this time, we could theoretically have investigated everyone already. But no. That would overpower the town. But by having two results receivers, if one dies, it neutralizes those cops and it makes sense.

Sof if Rosso was not your results receiver, then by my theory we still have one alive. Which is good. So there.

I'm sure that after Yaw sees the night choices from you and olio, he'll believe my hypothesis immediately.

I'll do it right now actually.

...Other stuff...

No, I'm not going to reveal innocent investigations at this point. It doesn't help the town to put targets on

two people's heads on day 2

.

I assumed the cop committee would receive their own results, because that's the normal cop setup. It's an assumption. I have no way of knowing. Only pablito (and any other cops remaining) knows for sure, and he has never said one way or the other.

Drummer's claim, at least about Vaughn, has two serious holes on its face. First, as we know from the front post, a blocked killing role could be a vig. Second (and far worse), since we attempted to direct the vig kills last night, that alone can account for the reduced number of kills (through players being targetted by vigilantes multiple times).

Anything else I'll deal with tomorrow, since I'm exhausted.

and

Also, I can make this day really easy on everyone. Vote: rajrhcpfreak The investigation on him turned up guilty (the two previous ones were both innocent, so that means the cops are sane). Still have to figure out the next night's vig target, though.

So on D2 Yaw knew that both of his innocent results (two separate people also) were still alive on D2. Both Blackberry and Fatty Acid investigated people who were dead by D2 (Rosso and Masterchief). This confirms that olio and the Goat's results have never made an impact on Yaw's results. Also the other post confirms that Yaw received the raj guilty on N3.

[pablito]

And based on Goat's latest posts, I never said that Rosso

must've

been your cop results receiver. I hypothesized so because it made more sense to me. But I believe and also previously stated that your cop results receiver may still be alive (originally only stated to trap scum...but now it really is a possibility). But my latest post proves that Yaw and I know each other's results and I used logic to deduce that olio and the Goat's N1 investigations never affected Yaw's results. And the Goat based on his assumptions is telling us that we still have another cop result receiver still alive - which can make sense and is very very good for the town.

[pablito]

This may help:

Time line:

N1 - Rosso (FA's N1) is killed; Kanaga is killed; Pablito submits choice; FA submits choice; Blackberry submits choice [Yaw gets pablito's N1 as innocent; other receiver gets MC result]
D1 - MC (Berry's N1) is anvil'd - Yaw and pablito have claimed

N2 - pablito submits choice; olio chooses raj; goat chooses coron [Yaw gets pablito's N2 as innocent; other receiver gets a raj/coron result]
D2 - Yaw admits both of his INNOCENTS are alive.

N3 - pablito chooses raj; olio chooses Eon; goat chooses Glork [Yaw gets pablito's raj as guilty; other receiver gets a Eon/Glork result]
D3 - Yaw immediately announces that he got raj is guilty

N4 - pablito chooses sarc; olio chooses nightson; goat chooses sarc [Yaw gets pablito's sarc as guilty; other receiver gets a nightson/sarc result]
D4 - Yaw immediately announces that he got Sarc as guilty

Based on night choices, Yaw has only gotten my choices; it's the only explanation.

[pablito]

goat - you said that you've been worried that you've been cancelled out on every single night choice...but olio chose raj N2 and I will admit that I did not choose raj N2 - that either means that I chose Coron N2 (which I admit I didn't) or else Yaw received only my night choice - as I've been saying all this time.

[pablito]

Well I think I figured out Rosso's role - if he wasn't a cop result receiver, then he was probably a townie with information on the cop result receivers' sanities. I've seen that role before. And it would make sense why Rosso was called a county sheriff.

[pablito]

Shall we ask Eon for a claim today?

[pablito]

One, there should be no question anymore whether I'm telling the truth about the two cop result receivers - the question is whether Rosso was the result receiver or not. Then a follow up question is whether we want him to claim if he's still alive.

Two, we might not have a doctor, but I stated before that I have the first aid kit that Max gave me. I fully intend to use it tonight on someone else.

Three, Eon is basically taunting us so let's put some votes on him and force a claim, then let's all unvote and lynch Sarcastro, because even I wouldn't want to take a chance on letting a confirmed guilty go one more day. Maybe I'm even wrong and Sarcastro is the last syndicate goon. Or who knows, maybe all the syndicate goons are dead. But Eon's last post is in no way pro-town, he needs pressure now.

[pablito]

Was that your claim? Because it sounds pretty genuine.

Eon, you haven't had a posting streak like this before...and now you're finally coming into the spotlight. Is it just a coincidence that you're participating more now that you've been defending yourself?

Also, Eon, if you'd been paying attention, we've been Vaughn all this time. The fact that you assume that we'd block you with no hard evidence now pretty much confirms that you're scum with a likelihood that you're a lone scum in your group.

I still want pressure on Eon, but I don't want to lynch anyone but Sarcastro today.

[pablito]

Well Sarcastro claimed doctor, so we can test him tonight (highly unlikely, but on the off chance he has an added mafia-doctor ability, we might be able to get him to use it). Eon is scum, but we would still have to analyze everything to see if he truly is the last syndicate goon or if he's just a mafia thug. I am up for either Sarcastro or Eon as a lynch, but I'd only be more willing to lynch Eon if we are absolutely certain it can cut down a night-kill.

Eon as one-shot vigilante (especially when Mariyta already claimed that vig before it even happened) is so incredulous that it's kinda fun to push Eon more just to see what more he'll claim. So....Eon, why didn't you say anything earlier about you killing lordy? And is this just WIFOM so you make us think that you were not on lordy/slaking's scum team?

Also, armlx, we need more on your neutral role. Does your win condition require that you just be mayor on the last day? Because I find it hard that it is a win condition because it's so hard to know which one is the last day and also there are some possible scenarios where it may be impossible for you to be voted mayor. And you also need to answer why you hadn't been intent on being mayor or even showing interest in being mayor until now once you've claimed.

And Nightson, we haven't heard everyone yet claim "not cop result receiver". I can count at least three people who it might be but haven't said anything either way.

[pablito]

Why choose now? Why stifle discussion, Nightson?

[pablito]

Would it be worthwhile to get a chamber claim sometime soon? Since chamber was willing to massclaim, it might help to get him to claim now.

Also al_ko, where's that reply you intended to write?

I'm for the "vote against the incumbent" plan. But I don't know how I feel about fully trusting armlx. I'm definitely in favor of keeping him around until later though since his claim seems alright.

[pablito]

Well then,

unvote, vote: Eon

for good measure

[pablito]

Eon's point is null, all character names so far seem to be male.

I wouldn't mind looking into this Mariyta was roleblocked discussion.

Nonetheless, Eon claimed vanilla townie at first (what he claims to be now) but then claimed one-shot vigilante after some time. Also no other person has claimed or shown one-shot-edness. Furthermore, the only one-shot abilities I've seen have been given by the inventor. And we know that Max was only able to give to Pooky, Raj and Me, so therefore Eon was not given his one-shot by Max.

[pablito]

Oh wait, Max was an Evelyn. Females exist in this game. But Eon's point is still not valid because character names yield gender, not the real player's gender - since we know that Max is male.

[pablito]

Eon, you mind finishing yourself off?

Also, will the no-shows eventually be prodded?

[pablito]

Okay, I'm confused. I had initially been confused by the roleblocker claims because they seemed so unfounded, but I was wrong on which RB was scum. I did not think Glork was scum.

On the other hand, six down, one identified...possibly one or two scum to go?

And if I'm correct on the cop theory, Yaw would be able to safely reveal last night's result. That should confirm me as the only "productive cop". However, Yaw should probably not reveal it yet, at least until we get feedback from everyone.

here's a list on everyone's status - that should help our replacements

confirmed scum: Sarcastro

almost certainly town (due to night choices): Mari, Yaw, pablito, olio, the goat

claimed something: starkmoon (rep. armlx), TSQ (rep. Vaughn)

thereby leaving only these as publicly unclaimed: alko, MBL, nightson.

Before lynching someone today, I'd like to see at least one of those last three to claim their full role if not all three of them. And I think I have a better idea on who the last scum is now.

[pablito]

Just read over Glork's posts.

Glork was not on the same team as Sarcastro or otherwise that was some blatant bussing. Therefore Sarc is the last syndicate and then we just have to find out who Eon and Glork's scumbuddies were.

I also don't think that armlx's claim - now starkmoon - is anything pro-town.

And also thanks Sarc for offing Glork. I knew there was some benefit to lynching Eon first.

Since it appears that whatever inflicted Vaughn hasn't been going much further, can we assume he was converted pro-town or is this something that needs to be addressed still?

[pablito]

anyone want to claim any of the kills?

[pablito]

I'd be willing to answer your question when I have time, but in the meanwhile, you can also try to see all posts from Vaughn to get a quick answer.

Offhand I remember it happening during D2 - the one where Drummer was lynched

[pablito]

I already sent in my mayoral vote, who's still holding it up?

[pablito]

day 2 break

Vaughn confirms Drummer's role

day 3 break

day 4 break

pablito's cop theory

armlx's claim

[pablito]

any specific agenda for discussion for today?

[pablito]

I offer up armlx/starkmoon as a target. last time we got a "neutral" role it came up different colors and therefore I don't trust neutrals anymore because they sure don't help us.

Sometime today I also hope that olio and goat decide what they'd like to say about what might have happened over last night.

[pablito]

the hell, are we still thinking there's a cult or something? If there is a cult, I'm sure we would've seen one NKed by now.

tsq should find out from the mod what his night choice was if he didn't make the decision himself.

[pablito]

true, looks like our plan worked, they're both alive.

they cannot confirm each other's night choices, and unless we know about who their results receiver was (and if alive, that person should not come forward yet), then their night choices cannot be confirmed either. there is nothing that can be truly confirmed about them.

however, they both breadcrumbed well enough about the role early enough to make their claims likely. also their night choices when viewed together and in context of my night choices, it's all so incredibly discrepant with what Yaw received, that the simplest and most likely explanation (occam's razor) is that they must be cops as well but that they do not report to Yaw. olio's night choices came last and if he was scum, he would've chosen some guilty results (like raj or sarcastro) to be more in line with me. the fact that no one else chose raj N3 shows that their night choices are not scummy.

that's how they're somewhat confirmed. also...it's currently hypothesized that there's only one scum left in each group (with a possible SK) that they're probably not faking results together anymore.

I think the best plan is to lynch sarc and vig starkmoon/armlx right now. I think those two have already claimed and are the best options in light of all else. Also, that should prevent at least one night kill tonight and perhaps two in the future. However, I think we oughta spend time figuring out everything else before we go for the lynch.

[pablito]

armlx's claim

Hmm...I totally forgot about the lynch-immunity part. Didn't see that before. On second thought though, that may be a SK perk or it might be an actual part of the role.

I'll have to rethink armlx/starkmoon again.

[pablito]

also, that testable lynch-immunity is something that we can save for later when we're certain there are fewer NKs.

I'm still up for lynching sarc, but I'll be starting to think about a good alternate vig target. I've got two people at minimum that I could set up a good case for. I'll post a case when I have time. Likely to arrive after Thursday.

[pablito]

on second thought, what if starkmoon is an unlynchable SK? I wouldn't want to have to rely on a mafia group to off starkmoon.

[pablito]

Interesting. I look forward to the analysis.

[pablito]

I can't wait for al_ko's analysis coming up sometime this week. I think we have game already. I don't see this game going on further than D6 anymore.

[pablito]

I agree with that plan. You three are the only "unclaimed" and I think I know which one(s) of you are scum, already, so I doubt that the claims will change my mind on youse.

I think the dice roll is the fairest thing to do so I'll get it started

1. al_kohaulec
2. MrBuddyLee
3. Nightson

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

[pablito]

Nightson, looks like you're first then.

[pablito]

We're unsure of which one of two targets is better to vig tonight rather than later. And two people have made it known that they certain that they already know who seems to be the most likely scum.

Unless we're sure of who we're vigging tonight, I think we oughta get more clarity on some of the unknowns.

But I'd also like to know more about the mayor results, but I think it's pretty much null since our mayoral candidates aren't huge lynch targets either.

[pablito]

Could you let us know who hasn't replicated their mayoral votes or perhaps PM those who didn't?

[pablito]

al_ko, do you promise you're not scum, because if you're not I know who scum are.

Also, in the meanwhile, here's a safe discussion topic: do we think there are two three or four scum left?

[pablito]

yeah, I'm counting all scum still alive at this point.

Meaning at least Sarcastro plus one, two or three others.

[pablito]

Mariyta, you said that N2 you believe that Yosarian2 was responsible for killing lordy. Then who did you target and why? And do you believe that extraneous circumstances affected the outcome of your night choice?

Also, what do you think about the fact that we had three NKs last night (N5), but that you were mayor-blocked? Or did you submit one of those kills and it accidentally get through? Or do you believe there's another vigilante-type person?

[pablito]

Time to list why this game is likely done soon:

(11/30)

2. Nightson (Replacing Someone)
3. Olio (Replacing FATty ACid)
8. Mariyta
10. Starkmoon (Replacing armlx)
12. MrBuddyLee
16. Thestatusquo (Replacing Vaughn)
20. al_kohaulec
21. Yaw
24. The Goat (Replacing NotForsaken (Replacing Blackberry))
26. pablito
28. Sarcastro

Claimed and night actions have confirmed (2): Mariyta, Yaw
Claimed and night actions likely confirm (1): pablito
Claimed and night actions present an unlikely case for anything but a scum pair (2): olio, the goat
_____________
Claimed parasite which he said was pro-town, but turned out to be neutral, but has said to be pro-town now (1): Vaughn/TSQ
Claimed neutral (1): armlx/starkmoon
Confirmed scum (1): Sarcastro
Unclaimed (3): Nightson, MBL, al_ko

On paper it looks like we have 5 nearly confirmed pro-town out of 11. That seems safe if we can reduce NKs. That means even if we mis-lynch/mis-vig we can still win by process of elimination.

By deduction, I may be able to take down that number.

PookyTheMagicalBear, Justyn Leontius, corrupted mafia thug, brains splattered Night 1
Kanaga, Wolfe Wallace, cop, sniped Night 1
AmeliaSlay, Maurine Halberton, doctor, beaten Night 1
Colonel Kurtz, Stephan Chandler, doctor, exploded Night 1
Rosso Carne, Orville Green, county sheriff, drawn and quartered Night 1
Bogre, Harmon Darien, vigilante, anvil'd Day 1
Masterchief, Curt Callahan, roleblocker, anvil'd Day 1
slaking_master, Zimri Jaasau, syndicate goon, lynched Day 1
lordy, Deonne Elvin, syndicate goon, rifled Night 2
Yosarian2, Val Parker, vigilante, bashed and slashed Night 2
Drummer, Harley Terrell, parasite, lynched Day 2
Max, Evelyn Arlette, inventor, closed down Night 3
petroleumjelly, Tyrik Shelby, doctor, pierced Night 3
Pie_Is_Good, Carolyn Shelby, sex object, collateral'd Night 3
rajrhcpfreak, Haydee Xanthe, syndicate goon, lynched Day 3
Coron, Isolde Xenia, doctor, brain dead Night 4
Eon (Replacing marc.six), Chloe Artanna, corrupted mafia thug, lynched Day 4
chamber, Almira Oldham, doctor, flipped over Night 5
mudbuck, Janice Ina, roleblocker, disposed of Night 5
Glork, Cymone Jossman, corrupted mafia thug, burned out Night 5

N1 - 5 kills
N2 - 2 kills
N3 - 2 kills
N4 - 1 kill
N5 - 3 kills

N1 - Mariyta claims Pooky, (four of the following five sources killed someone: thugs, goons, SK, Yos, Bogre)
N2 - Mariyta believes Yos killed lordy, someone else killed Yos then - seems like a lot of attacks may have been doc-protected for Yaw.
N3 - Mariyta vigs Vaughn. chamber protected Vaughn/TSQ. (two of three following sources killed someone: thugs, goons, SK). I think it's likely goons killed Max. It is likely Coron and other doctors protected Yaw.
N4 - Mariyta mayor-blocked. one of three following sources killed Coron: thugs, goons, SK. Others may have attacked a doc-protected Yaw or were role-blocked.
N5 - Mariyta mayor-blocked (right?). three sources successfully killed: thugs, goons, SK. If there were more, they may have tried to kill a doc-protected Yaw, but I find it highly unlikely anymore considering the low number of N2 kills. I think Sarc (the pyro) killed Glork, Glork wanted mudbuck dead because mudbuck was ruining his RB claim and was actually RBing him, and the SK killed chamber because the SK figured out he was a doctor.

I hypothesize there are three killing groups left. Six suspects left - I think we're at 50/50.

What does everyone think about having three killing groups left? Do you believe it's just two or could it be up to four?

[pablito]

Mariyta, any ideas on who you think should be vigged?

Also, do our replacements feel ready to chime in yet?

[pablito]

vig starkmoon (formerly armlx).

I think it's safe to say that neutral-appearing roles are not worth keeping at this time. Especially when a neutral-role claims to be lynch-immune.

Now that I think about it, I've never heard of a lynch-immune neutral role. Sounds unique though. But I think it's best to eliminate this possible risk even though I'm not so sure that starkmoon is scum. But I think we need to take the opportunity to get rid of starkmoon while it's still possible.

[pablito]

Then say what you think is going on. No one talks, no one does anything. I'm trying to get this game over and done with since we're so close.

[pablito]

Before we lynch, I want the opportunity to put in the case for the last scum. Based on scum on scum interactions, I think I can outline a good case. Just in case I'm NKed that is.

[pablito]

Claimed and night actions present an unlikely case for anything but a scum pair (2): olio, the goat

Oh, right. I was supposed to tell you what I think...

...I think you're a bit deranged.

But in context, I've also made a clear case that I don't think a scum pair exists anymore - which is why you two are above the line and essentially cleared.

I think The Goat or olio are only scum if they're a pair, or if they were scum on independent teams who made a risky gambit and both outed themselves jointly to counter-claim each other. But the possibility of that happening is so low that no one thinks you guys are scum anymore.

I thought you were refuting my whole argument, not just that little bolded part that I just found. Now I understand where The Goat's coming from, and it's justified.

Nonetheless, unless someone tells me within the next 24 hrs not to do it, I will reveal my thought on who the third scum may be (out of the three unconfirmed), but note that in doing so, I may prematurely role-claim for one, if not all three, of those unconfirmed: al_ko, MBL and Nightson.

[pablito]

Hm, I'm lying. I'm gonna do it by tonight - within 8 hrs because I'll be gone tomorrow.

[pablito]

We currently have six suspects. I truly believe there is three scum left.

The current plan is to lynch Sarcastro (confirmed scum), and then vig someone else (I suggest starkmoon). That's down to four, then.

Vaughn/TSQ plus the three unconfirmed (MBL, Nightson, al_kohaulec).

Time to explain why it's unlikely that Vaughn/TSQ is scum at this moment. That way we can concentrate finding the last likely scum within three people.

Here's the simple explanation.

So far only Masterchief and mudbuck have been confirmed as roleblockers. There's gotta be at least one more out there. Vaughn (formerly Drummer) claimed to be a roleblocker. Therefore, I think this claim - especially when confirmed by two people - is likely true. I don't see why Drummer would have faked the RB claim if it didn't have some stance in reality. Also, pretty much all dead scum have pushed the cultist agenda and probably have kept Vaughn/TSQ alive because they know it's one of the last doubts the town has.

Next post concentrates on the link between Glork, Eon and one of the unconfirmeds.

[pablito]

Guess who I chose: It's Nightson!

Well, from what Yaw has posted I'd place my money on him being a serial killer. And as such I'm going to vote: Yaw

That's the 12th vote on him, the next one will lynch FYI

Furthermore, Nightson didn't just say that Yaw was scum, but an SK. That was too specific for my taste, but also, Nightson never comes back to a SK hypothesis and shows he was probably just pulling the SK-card out of his ass that early only to try to get a strong power role lynched.

Then it also took him a long time to become convinced to unvote and was very resistent to a non-Yaw lynch.

Interesting to note that upon Eon's entry into the game, Nightson was the one who comment first.

Sorry but i have to vote =

Have to?

Should I claim at this point?

Early D2. A nice gesture, but I don't get it. Also, if Nightson is not scum, he'd be willing to claim before going to night.

So what do we make of the difference in death numbers? Night 1 had 5 kills and Night 2 had only 2. Borge being dead would account for one, so I guess the other ones must have been doc protects. Good job docs.

Isn't this one of those scum tells or something? Congratulating the cops, that is.

Also, FOS Glork for voting Raj. See my reasoning on the last page about this, especially that we are now working on actual good lynches.

Glork gives a long post with his reasons for not voting PJ or Coron, and you don't even mention them when you fos him?

It seems to me that usually these arguements spring up between two protwon people and are then used by the town to get at least one of the arguers lynched. And this doesn't seem very out of charcater for either of them from what I've read of their other games.

Here's a fairly blatant defense of Glork.

What I want to know is if Vaughn knows he's protown, and he's really a roleblocker, why didn't he block Maritya? We even talked about it yesterday concerning Glork. A protown roleblocker should block the vig if they know the vig is coming after them. And a mafia roleblocker could be expected to do the same thing. But as it would be a lot stupider for a mafia roleblocker to not block, I'm inclined to think Vaughn is protown.

A D3 quote. Too much assumption that both mudbuck and Glork were RBers and that they made a difference.

Concerning pablito's reluctance to say he targeted Raj:

I found this to be really scummy, it basically seemed like scum who was going to be forced to commit to a yes or no answer and was afraid of answering the wrong way.

When both he and Yaw said yesterday that they would not reveal their results it set off alarm bells for me. Yaw seemed to drop that as soon as he got a guilty result, which makes sense, but pablito's continued reluctance was strange.

Concerning Vaughn and the parasite role:

It's probably best to kill him just to be sure he isn't a cult leader. But on the other hand I really don't see a cult leader coming forward to vouch for one of his initiates. Especially since he didn't get him off the hook at all. Vaughn's actions don't really seem consistent with a cult, but that's all WIFOM. As his claimed role isn't vital, I think we should consider killing him. Plus if he's telling the truth then he's already won so it doesn't matter. Very Happy

Classic, Nightson is trying to keep as many options open as possible.

So, we lynch Raj. Glork and Mudbuck both block Vaughn. Pablito picks his investigation target, people have been offered up, I personally still think Vaughn is the best choice.

We also need to consider that there might be one more forced vig, if so we should probably offer up a target. Dunno who to suggest for this.

Too much direction.

As far as I go, I think the remaining scum are hiding somewhere in here (not in any order)

10. armlx
12. MrBuddyLee
19. Eon
24. The Goat

As I didn't find anybody really suspicious, I worked backwards and crossed off everyone I think is town.

Interesting. a decent list I think. But unfortunately Eon exploded. But it appears from Glork's actions that Eon was going to be sacrificed if any pressure was put on him during the next sday.

Pablito- List or confirm all night choices

Yaw- Likewise list all results you recieved. What does your PM say about getting multiple results?

You can't go fishing that late during D4.

In the end though, I just think that Eon's lynch was a prime example of some scum bussing.

[pablito]

I'm pretty sure that Nightson is scum and is avoiding the thread, but for his benefit of a doubt he did post this in limited access:

Finals are killing me, I'll hang out in scumchat but don't expect anything from me in games for at least the next two days.

Also I'll be on vacation from December 26th-January 2nd

[pablito]

I doubt we're going to get a response from Nightson, but I don't mind going to night before he responds. Since he's not the lynch or vig target, I think he's alright for now. Also, could starkmoon just do us all a favor? Since you're going to be vigged and since you're probably the SK, could you just put in a kill on Nightson so we can end this game?

Well if I happen to be NKed, I'm fairly certain that the remaining players can mass-claim and it'll be pretty clear which of the unconfirmeds are remaining scum. Otherwise, if I survive to D6, I'll keep information on my night choices and my theories so that we can end the game D6.

unvote, vote: Sarcastro

[pablito]

we have olio, Nightson, Mariyta and me so far. Two to lynch.

[pablito]

*let it rain...let it pour*

[pablito]

Vote Count

Mariyta (2): al_kohaulec, olio

Not voting: Mariyta, MrBuddyLee, Thestatusquo, Yaw, The Goat

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[pablito]

Final Vote Count

Mariyta (5): al_kohaulec, olio, olio, MrBuddyLee, Mariyta

Not voting: Thestatusquo, Yaw, The Goat

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

MoS has been notified of the lynch. He'll post scene.

[pablito]

Mafia had it rough, then again, town had it almost as bad considering how much scum groups existed. 10? Although, almost every single scum had a solid tell and that was keeping the myth of a cult alive.

But really, bad, bad town. I did a lot of work for you guys and of all the unconfirmeds, I never once mentioned MBL as being scum because I knew he had already been investigated (Yaw had a tell in D2 when he talked about lynching a lurker, but not someone absent who might be at burning man). But all other unconfirmeds, Nightson and alko were scum. al_ko was even one of my original top 3 suspects after the mass cop claim. Plus, didn't we already establish in D1 that there was no back-up committee/role after slaking_master claimed it? Argh.

Maybe I should've confirmed all my results with Yaw or announced them, because I was wrong on the cop set-up, but I think even I still had the first three investigations, so I don't think it was a wrong hypothesis.

But still, at one point (D4) we were 1 receiver, 3 cops, 1 vig, 1 doc, 3 RBs vs. 2 SKs, 3 mafia A, 1 mafia B even after a good lynch/vig record, I think there were just too many scum in this setup.

Then again, There were 6/7 lynches on scum and town still lost. I think that sucks. Furthermore, vigs correctly targetted 2 scum as well (including the unlynchable SK!).