Mafia in La-La Land (Game over!)

[Konowa]

Sorry for not posting yet, was away over the weekend. I wil read through and post at some point in the next few hours.

[Konowa]

Okay.

Vote: Mehdi2277

I can't say that I agree or disagree with the kondi wagon as I did not follow the links provided by Matt.

[Konowa]

Oh right.
He's obvscum. Thanks for the heads up!

[Konowa]

Sweets do not work any better than votes. Needless to say, I think he is scum.
Also, Blastoide is prob scum for 163.

[Konowa]

People need to stop being derps and remove their newb-tinted glasses regarding Mehdi.
Blastoide should also explain why he voted Bitmap over Shamrock, when it reads as if he has a stronger read on Shamrock.

[Konowa]

You guys are cute.

Read Mehdi.
Now tell me, despite the massive amount of garbage he has posted thus far, who he has taken a stance on.
All he has done so far is ask “questions” and posture. His vote of Reck in 103 is obnoxious reaching and a pointless “pressure vote” that scum can easily hide behind.

Shamrock hit on what I was referring to in regards to Blastoide in post 203. At time of his [Blastoide] post, I feel that there is a disconnect between reasoning and vote.
He lists Bitmap for sheeping.
He then explains how Shamrock deconstructed Mehdi’s obvious pressure vote.
To me, his reasoning at time looks to be stronger for a Shamrock vote.

More later.

[Konowa]

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, but no what isn't?

[Konowa]

Your entrance post is not scummy, to me at least. That kind of post can easily come from town as well as scum. So yes, calling your entrance post scummy is reaching and he self-admittedly said that it was also for pressure reasons.

Besides that, what do you think of Mehdi not taking any stances so far? His play feels like new scum asking lots questions to gather a general consensus to hide the fact that he has not said one thing yet.

To that point, Mehdi who do you think is scum?

[Konowa]

When you point it in terms like that, yes I suppose I see why in a vacuum your post can be viewed as scummy. I guess what my point is, is that I read posts like that as null and then later review once said player has started playing.

unvote;

I still would like for Mehdi to provide scum reads.
I also am waiting on Blastoide to address the disconnect I pointed out.

[Konowa]

This is the first real large I have been in since I returned to site (currently playing in a 15 player game, but I really do not consider that a large). First time around on site, I had trouble keeping up in larges and could not get reads off of anyone D1. So I decided to try and create a flash in the pan in an attempt to help me get reads.

Reck is town.
Gut says that Shamrock is town.
Matt is leaning scum (his condescending attitude is likely influencing this). Drops off the kondi wagon and is now in tunnelvision mode, ignoring kondi completely.
Staeg I am unsure of. I do not see why originally he would prompt me for reasoning and now that I have provided he questions why I waited.

Shamrock, regarding Blastoide I know he said why he voted Bitmap over you at the time. However, my point is that when reading that post it still seems that he has a stronger position on you being scum than Bitmap. I do not follow the train of thought here is all.

[Konowa]

Unvote: Staeg

Vote: Konawa

I actually think his change of mind is the scummiest thing so far in his play, because first, it shouldn't have been so hard to see what Mehdi could find scummy in the post, and he could've just asked Mehdi about it in order to better understand him, so I doubt Reck saying what he did would change Konawa's mind as it appears to have. Also, I think just the way he changes his mind is really scummy. Instead of "ugh yeah, sorry you're right", he gives the whole reading posts as null and later reviewing them thing, which sounds like scum trying to have an excuse for the whole thing, except it's a really bad one.

So you are saying that townme would have said gg no re Mehdi? What about my position on Mehdi do you disagree with?
Matt, what made you change your mind on Jackal, given 150 where you express doubt over someone elses town read on Jackal?

[Konowa]

All of your statements are wrong.

1)Yes it is accusatory. That is the point.
2)Was asking Reck to clarify his statement since what I said was two parts.
3)It is not negligable. I view Reck's entrance post as null, so for someone else to see it as scummy and combining the fact that said person has not said anything worthwhile so far it is relevant.
4)Yes I am asking for scum reads from Mehdi because he hasn't said anything yet. Why would this be an afterthought?

[Konowa]

DV, I will clarify. You believe that townme would have said “Yep, you guys are right. I was wrong.” instead of actually explaining my read and thought process? Right now, I am null on Mehdi. I was asking since you disagreed with my scumread, why? Or rather, what has he done to make you think he is town? All I see are posts.

Also,

I think that scum may be less likely to attack a popular townread, but I can see scum doing it in the way that Konowa did and I think that how he went about the whole thing and the way that he changed his mind are how scum would act.

This is crap. Why are you talking out of both sides of your mouth?

Also, Konowa, what is your opinion on people finding you town for attacking medhi?

To be honest, I do not know why you are asking

me

this question. Unless I am mistaken, Shiidaji is the only one saying that. Others have said that while they disagree with reasoning, they can see why I would say that.

peta, I tried to create a flash in a pan by withholding my read and being obnoxious about it.

261 is cheering from the sidelines and is scummy.

Vote: PMysterious

[Konowa]

Rephrase the question so as to be not loaded and I will answer it.

[Konowa]

Simply put re-assessment. I have already explained why I thought Mehdiscum. However, since no one agrees with that, I am obviously doing something wrong.

I would like kondi to explain why he has gone quiet since my wagon has taken off, but has been active elsewhere.

[Konowa]

@Mod and all: Will be V/LA from Friday afternoon until Monday morning due to work.

[Konowa]

I explained in 226.
Moving forward from those reads, Matt is leaning scum (complete abandonment of kondi wagon and lack of recognition of kondi jumping onto my wagon. Again, his attitude might be influencing this some). DeasVail is leaning scum for talking out both sides of his mouth ("scum aren't likely to do this, but I [DV] can see scum doing it the way he [Konowa] did). PMysterious is scum for the cheering on from the sidelines. Staeg I am still unsure of (prompting me for reasoning and now no comment on said reasoning, but asking why I waited. Feels like he is content to let his vote site as long as it is safe.)

[Konowa]

I will answer once you clarify.

-221 is something that I do think is scummy because of

"I guess what my point is, is that I read posts like that as null and then later review once said player has started playing."

, which I feel is just careful justifying of his unvote.

What are you referring to here? Better, which post do you believe I am referring to?

[Konowa]

Okay, for some reason I thought you were referring to something else. What I don't know. Give me a minute and I'll answer.

[Konowa]

Also, Konowa, what is your opinion on people finding you town for attacking medhi?

Other people have stated such, yes. I find nothing alignment telling out of it.

I didn't think you were referring to Reck's post, because I do not see what point you are driving here. Like, I do not see the disconnect you are trying to push. I attacked Mehdi for two reasons. One, attacking Reck's post and then backing down as soon as Shamrock applied some pressure on him. Two, he did not at that point provide any reads. All he did was ask a bunch of non-alignment motivated questions.

[Konowa]

And no Matt, I am not looking for towncred by saying my read of you is emotional. I find you scummy because you dropped your meta case on kondi (which, while I still haven't followed the links it looked like you were genuinely pushing it) and have yet to mention anything about kondi's disappearance since my wagon started or kondi's hop on my wagon. However, you are being an asshat and it is affecting my ability to read you.

[Konowa]

What?

[Konowa]

Explain what your quoted makes me scum. Especially how the two scenarios you are quoting are vastly different, but are the same thing to you.

[Konowa]

If what you said is true, then wouldn't following your logic you be stating Shamrock and Blastoide.
The only thing kondi has done that is scummy to me is disappear since my wagon took off. I believe that PM's cheering from the sideline is scummier though.
I have no read on Bitmap, other than he is low-content.

[Konowa]

I don't think I can be more specific that I had to re-assess. I would like to think that I am fairly decent at catching scum, so [insert reason here of why I thought Mehdi was scum]. So the fact that no one else saw what I saw as scummy, I had to take a step back.

[Konowa]

No. No.

[Konowa]

Blatant appeal to you. Lynch

Houdini

kondi today instead?
Vote on PMysterious is useless asis.

unvote;
Vote: kondi2424

[Konowa]

Because I am not fully vested in my read on Matt due to him being an asshat earlier.
kondi's continued disappearance every since my wagon took off is starting to drive my read up on him.
Still think PMysterious cheering from the sidelines is scummier, but vote on him is useless right now.

[Konowa]

Family emergency. Will attempt to post later tonight, tomorrow at latest.

[Konowa]

4nxi3ty, you still have not explained why I am scum. All you did was point to theoretical bullshit that happens every game. Please explain what you quoted in 316 makes me scum. Also, explain the lack of continuation of your train of thought regarding what you quoted (regarding Bitmap/Shamrock/Blastoide).

Cause PV is more likely to flip scum. I agree with his aggression looking forced and kondi's last post gave off townvibes. Also the fact that pm, bitmap, and konowa are all sitting comfortably on the kondi wagon kinda invalidates it imo.

I’m confused now. You’re worried about me “sitting comfortably” on the kondi wagon, but you quote

me

when you reference your PM vote. Forgetting/not mentioning that I was voting PM and not referencing it. This is twice now where there is major dissonance in your train of thought. Please explain.

[Konowa]

Matt, what do you think of DeasVail?

[Konowa]

I included Shamrock because I think you are trying to invent bullshit. If you actually read what you quoted, I was not potraying Bitmap as scummy in that post. I was questioning Blastoide on why he would go lack of reasoning vote on Bitmap over what looked like strong reasoning vote on Shamrock. So either you are trying to falsify my reads or you can not read. I'll go with the former and would like you to explain why?

[Konowa]

Please follow.

You said I am taking someone scummy (Bitmap) and trying to tie him to someone else (Blastoide). How the hell in what I quoted remotely even makes sense? I was questioning Blastoide why he voted Bitmap

over

Shamrock.

Again with the loaded questions. Why? I am engaging

you

at the moment.

[Konowa]

I understand that the two are not mutually exclusive. They haven't done anything worthwhile to comment on/question.
PMysterious is still scum. I do not understand why people are writing him off as a VI.
kondi's last post was so stupid, I have no comment on it. I still think his complete drop off the face of this game as soon as my wagon went off is the scummiest thing to date.

[Konowa]

Keeping vote on kondi.
Would gladly switch my vote to PM in a heartbeat if needed.

[Konowa]

@Mod and all: Will have limited access the next two days due to annual bar competition. Then I will be out of town with only phone access until Tuesday morning for vacation with the family.

[Konowa]

Whatever at this point. I'll lynch kondi or PMysterious.
Saying we are running out of time when we have four plus days left and deadline has been suspended until all replacements, likely Inox at this point too, is a cop out Matt, and you know it. Only reason my wagon has more momentum than kondi is because dropped off the face of the earth as soon as mine took off and now he is being replaced and site meta nowadays is to "give the replacement a chance" bullshit.

[Konowa]

Nothing about his early play gave me any sort of read either way. I think the drop of activity here and continued activity sitewide is a big scumtell though.
Blastoide is still someone I'm unsure leaning possibly scum. Still not a fan of the early voting for Bitmap over Shamrock thing. Doesn't jibe with me.
Mehdi is null. I honestly am confused as to why people still find him town. He falls in the grouping of writing PM off just because he is a VI.

[Konowa]

unvote;
Vote: PMysterious

Having a hard time garnering any sort of umph for this game.

[Konowa]

No that's clearly fence sitting/cheering on from the sidelines.

[Konowa]

My wiki is up to date with all the games I have completed or am currently in since I returned to site this summer. I remember having a few scum games back in 2010 before I had to leave site. I’m not sure if they were tigereaten or not, not really going to go look either. As for my ability to play scum, sure I guess.

Are we claiming dreams?
I’m down with a Jarvis (who replaced kondi) or N (who replaced manho) lynch.

Vote: Jarvis

[Konowa]

It's not really a Jarvis over N vote. I'm willing to lynch either of you today. Right now though, competiting wagons and all that shit.

[Konowa]

I think that if we lynch either of you today, we will hit scum.

[Konowa]

Join the rank of people, myself included, who will be disappointed at a town flip.
By the way, how'd you reach that conclusion?

[Konowa]

I'm not ruling out the possibility that dream claim can come from scum, since all players have the ability to dream.
As far as manho and kondi, I can see the probability there. manho sheeping Matt so he wouldn't have to manufacture a read on kondi. He even tries to discredit the meta case by asking if Matt is 100% sure about it.

[Konowa]

It is not contrived, nor do I think it is a poor conclusion given that kondi was at seven votes at the moment. There is plenty of motivation for scummanho to "support" a scumkondi case while throwing down a vote on the other leading wagon. I have already said why I am voting you over N (competiting wagons). I have also said that I would lynch both of you today. You have absolutely no idea that N has a

far greater

chance of being lynched today since the day just started. As for that quote, I know that I am playing like shit so far. I am trying to turn that around.

[Konowa]

KoC read will have to wait until I get to a computer. So probably Monday.
DV I already answered that.

[Konowa]

Perhaps I didn’t explain this enough earlier when I said why to Jarvis. Jarvis and N are both likely to be scum. However, a Jarvis scumflip increases the chance of N being scum much moreso than the other way around.

scumflipJarvis <---

manho's

N’s reaction to Matt’s case

makes more sense from a scum motivation sense than

Jarvis <--- scumflip

manho

N’s reaction to Matt’s case

I’ve also already said why I think N’s reaction to Matt’s case is scummy and indicative of both being scum. At the time, kondi was at seven votes. I believe this is a critical juncture given that it takes eleven to lynch. manho attempts to undermine/discredit Matt’s meta case of by asking him [Matt] if he was 100% sure. This tries to create an air of doubt around the case without having to actually give any original input on the kondi wagon. So, yes, while I think they are both scum Jarvis being scum is more likely and also increases the chance of N being scum.

As far as KoC read, I didn’t answer at the time because I hate phone posting anything that requires substance. Without fully reading yet all I remember is that he pushed PM first as a policy lynch and then said that some of his behavior is scummy. Without reading it looks as if he wanted PM out of the game no matter what. If he [PM] was scum, it was just bonus. Having played with PM before, I can understand the motivation behind this. I don’t think it is indicative of alignment though.

[Konowa]

Jarvis you still haven't explained how what I am saying doesn't make sense from a scum motivation sense.

[Konowa]

I'm not attacking any players that are out of the game. I am giving my analysis of why the two slots are scum together. What are your thoughts on Jarvis, because earlier it appeared as if you were saying that

kondi

Jarvis and I are buddies.

[Konowa]

I know I haven't.

[Konowa]

Stop being intentionally dense. The slots are still scum. Neither yours or N's play have changed this.

[Konowa]

I know I haven't posted. Work and study all weekend. Now I have regionals for Bar Flair competiton (Luck with me). Short post today.

DV I thought most people would understand when ibposted before that one oost that it nade more sense to vote jarvis over n if I thought they were scum together.

[Konowa]

Meaning I thought 771 was self explanatory of why outside wagons of jarvis over n if both were scum together.

[Konowa]

Still town here even though I understand I'm probably going to be lynched today. Will do my best to get solid reads out soon.

[Konowa]

Honestly was suprised I wasn't vigged given my crap read on KoC so I didnt bother to read. But given that read and gamma's "defense" of me, yeah.

[Konowa]

Reads. Two scum down, likely two mafia left + SK (not thinking Vig as I think a competent Vig would have shot me last night while a competent SK leaves me alive to push for lynch. Again this is assuming competency).

Whoever replaced Reck, Kimor?, is probably the SK based off of his comment on D2 opening regarding Shamrock kill.

Reading KoC in isolation N comes up a lot. I feel that based on D1 comment 563 N is likely scum. Gives N the same read as PM, but goes down the PM policy path. D2 early vote of N is likely bus. Reading N in iso provides nothing legit as he really hasn’t provided anything really, until now I suppose.

Now N being scum falls into my personal theory of Jarvis and N being scum based on interactions D1, however I think this beginning to fall into confirmation bias.

If not Jarvis scum, Notch, who replaced Blastoide is likely to be the final mafia. This is based on D1 voting regarding reads and post 850 where he tries to push KoC’s vote on PM as semi-serious.

I suggest I’m taken off of L-1 so more people can post before anyone decides to GAVEREADSHAMMA me.

[Konowa]

Vote: N

[Konowa]

I was actually leaning more towards Blastoide/Notch as my vote, interactions to scum being more reliable than interactions from scum, but N's reaction to what I said swung my vote that way.

What about pushing N as scum is bad?

[Konowa]

Also, this post by Gamma.

[Konowa]

Jarvis, when I flip town who is scum?

[Konowa]

All I am asking for is people who are calling me scum who have not listed other scum reads to do so before someone hammers.

[Konowa]

Vanilla.

Blastoide/Notch is likely scum. Reasoning (which can be expounded on if neccessary) can be found in this post.
Equinox is town.

[Konowa]

All I ask is that when I flip town to recignize my Notch/Jarvis/N/Kimor scumreads.

[Konowa]

Well I was town. Notch/Jarvis/N/Kimor are my scum reads.

[Konowa]

There really was no point in me posting. I gave my reads earlier in the Day.
Still doesn't change that I'm town.