Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Vote: Tammy

~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Okay UN, you had your chance to explain the vote on Tammy"Town"

Unvote; Vote: UberNinja

I'm holding off on other comments until I've spoken to Pere (#firsthydra)
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Pere's still not checked in...

Okay UN, you had your chance to explain the vote on Tammy"Town"
Unvote; Vote: UberNinja

I'm holding off on other comments until I've spoken to Pere (#firsthydra)
~AV

Reading through, it first struck me as odd that TSH would withhold comments on most things abritrarily, and then post a sentence pointing out the fact that he is withholding comment.

What['s] odd [about it], and [is it] bad? If so, why?

If you think it comes from scum, please say so. Using a word like odd feels.... weasely. It allows you to say something without really making a stance.

FoS: Magister Ludi

---

Tammy, explain to me why you went from "IDC" to "FFFFFFFUUUUUU-", and from "lolI'dselfvote" to "UGH FINE IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT /SELFVOTE"?
I think your RAEG is feigned. Why should I believe it's genuine?

---

I was going to hold off on switching my votes for a bit to avoid the whole "he's switching his vote because he's getting flak for it!" bullshit that's inevitably going to erupt from

somebody

's mouth before I realised that I don't give a fuck.
Mentioning this means that nobody's going to use it against me right right?

Overly concerned with the appearance not being concerned with appearances.

FoS: Nikanor

---

@UN, at what point after placing your vote did you think Tammy was town? At what point did you start thinking Tierce was scum? Who did you think your vote was on at that time - Tierce?

~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@ TSH

I think you are smart enough to know there is a difference here, and no try and twist my words. I take issue when someone says, "x statement is odd", and leaves it at that. For you, I clearly illuminated what I thought was odd with you statement, the fact that you were actively posting nothing for reasons undisclosed, but then also making a point to show everyone... that you weren't posting for reason's undisclosed. It struck me as off, and if you would like to debate that, please do. I would have gone with a slight TSH is scum, but given you only had two posts and I couldn't decide one way or another, I made a point to point it out so I could come back to it later.

+++ You criticize nikanor for 'being overly concerned with appearance', well that's exactly what you're , "we're not posting" thing looked like as well

RE: +++ How so? I thought Hydras were meant to discuss things before posting?

What's odd about it? I don't see how the reasons are undisclosed. I disclosed my reasons - see above.

Let's debate.
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@Ludi, no, I don't think it's more scummy to say what I wanted to say when I said it, but hold off on the rest (i.e. townreads, other stuff) until I've talked it through. Scumreads and the like are more time sensitive. If I'd waited until Pere got on, then the stuff that I wanted to say would have been old news, and thus I wouldn't have been able to get what I wanted out of it.
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

AV is on vacation, and I'm a few pages behind. I'll come in tonight and drop some Hippo wisdom.

-Peregrinev

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

AV is still gone, so I get to be the lone Hippo. I also get to vote my way until he gets back. And I caught up, so let me grab my quoting gun.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

It starts with toastys 273, where the three top vote-getters are all suspicious together. And part of the reason was a "connection" there. A suspicious connection.
Which can be made at any point between players.

But, moving on,

1) Ever consider that I may just be lazy town? Oversoul already mentioned how this game was going to be one I put like 50% effort into.

looks like trying to divert away from the fact that he's supposed to be lazy, but just read Tammy, Tierce and Uber and FOUND CONNECTIONS. As of right now that 217 posts between the three of them. I know if was less back then, but if you've done that why come represent yourself as lazy? I feel like you mean to pull this up again if your feet are held to the fire to produce actual scumhunting.

Then, Shmugen comes in with 1003, and I like. Reads, and reasons.

Then I get to 1072

Null15. MathGirl277: Who? Hopefully replacement posts soon.

.
So somehow, Toasty missed the 800 word Shmugen essay.

And since its my hippo for now,

Vote: Toasty

Also, @Magua of MaggyIll fame-

To be entirely fair, Magua-head has never been scum, a record that remains unbroken to this day.

I know of at least 2 games where you were, so not sure of the purpose here.

FoS: GreyIce

For not reading the playerlist and knowing that this asshole was in the game

-PeregrineV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Hey Crack Hippo, do you think this game is multiball?

Normally, based on size, I would think so. But, I think the whole balance thing could be done with scum only needing select townies instead of a whole bunch. It would fit the flavor more.

I do think there can be a third-party of some sort (survivor, SK, etc.) and still be within flavor.

So right now, figure town + 1 scumteam + 1 or 2 independents.

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@TSH - You bring up Toasty missing Shmugen's essay of reads. What is the point of pointing that out as part of your case against him? Do you think that's something likely to come from scum?

Well, I believe that town has to read the thread to find scum. Skipping a huge wall o' reads seems unlikely to come from town. And not commenting on it is OK, but he called out MathGirl/Shmugen for not posting.

@Shmugen-

Code: Select all

Toasty (mine)
Ludi (AV)

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Of all the people to call out, he chooses Shmugen?

Explain.

<Reads snipped>

15. MathGirl - That's me!
<Reads snipped>

<Reads snipped>

Null

15. MathGirl277: Who? Hopefully replacement posts soon.
<Reads snipped>

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Still not a fan of the MoI wagon and Toasty is town so his wagon is worse.

Agree on MoI wagon (not good), and would like to know why you think Toasty is town?

~P (here and above)

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

I really reall think Teleporting Speed Hippos is a good lynch for today.

His posts are really empty, they're not accomplishing much in the way of reads or clarity, not attempting to convince anyone of anything, (like trying to convince people to hop on toasty or etc. because they think that particular slot is scum.), and there's not many of them. I already explained why I think toasty is town, and they didn't seem to have a problem with my line of thought, so I'm not sure why they're asking someone ELSE why they think toasty is town. Plus, it looks like they just threw my name in the ring because I've been on them for a while.

And that's just their recent spat of posting.

I find Duplicity to be town, and has made posts reflecting many of my thoughts. It makes sense to ask him to explain a slot I find scummy to be town. You, no.

And AV is a big fan of your scumminess. Since we're a hydra, one for me, one for him.

And that's just my recent spat of posting, after I caught up and engaged in the game.

TSH that isn't even a goddamn explanation

Shit, I don't know if I can simplify it any more.

Player A: I'm player A. Blah 800 words.
Player B: Where is Player A? Why they no post?

@UN- Since I disagree, why?

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Not sure I approve of the MagIll wagon.

However, I am curious.

@MagIllusion- In comparing the other game where you were town, I noticed a difference in your posting quantity. In the other game, at about this stage (page 50 or so), you had three times the number of posts you do now. Also, your voting is also greatly reduced. While not an exact science, it indicates a contrast that is noticeable. Do you have an explanation for it?

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

So I'm back but I've not read the thread yet as I'm relying on Pere to update me on whatever's happened in my absence.

He's not convinced by the MoI wagon, so if people want some tender hippo love over there, y'all are gonna have to point your magnets at me and set them to Super XXL~

I might ISO MoI in the meantime.

Oh yeah, I noticed something about codes in here. What's that about? Did we get anything conclusive from it?
Pere said Timeater asked us to do it, I ISO'd the Alchemist and I like what I see, I'd sheep it but it's on MoI and as above etc etc.
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

On the off chance you are town, I know your slot could be a powerful force for the town.

Why do you think it's an off-chance? I've seen hardly anything in a ctrl+F of your ISO to suggest you really have a strong scum read on MoI. Your only real expression of their scumminess is that they voted for you, and your biased to think they must be scum. That doesn't seem like the sort of conviction to make someone say it's at best an "off-chance" that they're town. Especially combined with the claim you make in the very same post above that you're joining it mainly to stir discussion and get town out of the weird place they're in.

So a couple of catch-me-up buttercup questions.

What's this "bad mojo" that will happen if day goes on too long?
Can someone post a concise case against MoI? I asked Pere and he says he can't find one.
Why did the Toasty wagon crumble?

I'm going to put all of these concerns together in a simple action:

Unvote; Vote: MagisterLudi

I already think ML is scum from before my holiday when he used the word "odd" after calling someone out for using the word "odd". That's been solidified by his claim that Pere only put ML in the FoS list because he's been "pressuring us," when if anything he's only on us because I called him out earlier in the game. Then there's his latest post which YUCK.
Alchemist tells us that there is support for this lynch amongst enough players to make this a real possibility for the near future. That takes care of bad mojo.
The lack of a convincing case against MoI makes me wonder why the wagon is so large, and if a lot of those votes are apathetic/day-ending, they would do just as well on ML which is a far superior lynch given what Pere has said to me.
The ToastyWagon (which Pere is on) isn't likely to go anywhere any time soon, so I think our slot's vote can be better used.


[I just searched for a Hippopotamousse image to finish this post, but sadly, I can't find any. This short note to symbolise the hippo-shaped hole that has been left in my heart will have to suffice.]
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

What do you want quotes for? Your lack of suspicion substantial enough to warrant calling MoI an "off chance" town? I can't quote things that don't exist.
I'll quote parts that suggest you're not confident of him being scum.

Do you also need me to quote the place where I FoS'd you?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Gamma's 447 is also a pretty good find. I don't think singersinger really knows what she is saying here. She puts down a vote on Tammy, and then a few hours (~15) later seemingly forgets where it is, calls tammy super town, and decides to call SpyreX, who was also on the Tammy wagon, scum, and Magua, scum, (who knows why) but doesn't shift her vote to either of them.

You don't see MoI scum.

And MaguaoI is harder for me to give a solid because they voted me, I'm biased in thinking anyone voting me is scum pushing for a mislynch. Of any wagons with multiple votes, this is the one I would join.

The only reason it seems you find him scummy is because he voted you. As a result, you say yourself here that your read isn't solid.

You talked about getting short and to the point in one of your posts, could you do that in explaining what about MoI-scum I, and a few others, are misinterpreting

You don't see MoI scum.

Combined, it isn't easy to get big liquid wagons going. The MoI wagon has taken a long time coming, and it's only at L-3 or so, and it actually doesn't look like it's going to be a lynch. I'm not as sold on their scumminess as I am on others, but I was willing to vote the wagon on the basis of getting something going and getting some meaningful reactions, and lynching someone who isn't in my null section or above.

It's been a long time coming but this is the first real place you've stated a solid suspicion, and even then you're "not as sold" on it. Doesn't sound like there's only an "off chance" on him being scum, does it?

---

Pere's still not checked in...

Okay UN, you had your chance to explain the vote on Tammy"Town"
Unvote; Vote: UberNinja

I'm holding off on other comments until I've spoken to Pere (#firsthydra)
~AV

Reading through, it first struck me as odd that TSH would withhold comments on most things abritrarily, and then post a sentence pointing out the fact that he is withholding comment.

What['s] odd [about it], and [is it] bad? If so, why?

If you think it comes from scum, please say so. Using a word like odd feels.... weasely. It allows you to say something without really making a stance.

FoS: Magister Ludi

...Oops, did you not think I could actually back up what I had to say?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Responding to the most derp points you've made before I leave:

4. I wanted you to quote what you're talking about here, but alas you didnt. I join wagons to lynch people I think are scum, primarily. All else is secondary. Never stated differently.

"I was willing to vote the wagon on the basis of getting something going and getting some meaningful reactions, and lynching someone who isn't in my null section or above. "

"Getting something going" was the first (primary) thing you mentioned.
Coming after "At this point in the game, we've entered a weird sort of zone that is making it hard to get things done.", yeah, you did say your vote was mainly to push us out of a rut.

6. Biggest lie in the game. Your slot posted #257, and then I expressed suspicion of you in post 318, well before you CAN BACK IN and fos'sed me in 355. Please use facts.

Says the guy who thinks we only included him in the Suspect list because he's been "pressuring" us when it's clear that I FoS'd you way before any real pressure on your part - and fuck off, you can't say "odd" expresses suspicion when "It allows you to say something without really making a stance." This is EXACTLY the hypocrisy I was talking about earlier. So kindly eat hemp.

The rest if necessary I will speak about later.

~~~

If this was a "nightly" scum kill I'd expect the day to change.
Spy's suggestion of a country claim is interesting. There should DEFINITELY not be a name claim - hasn't someone already suggested this?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Unvote; Vote: Quilford

@ML, waa. Waa.
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Vote: MagisterLudi

~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Still not really understanding hte massive amount of Ludihate. Can someone please bullet-point the reasons he is scum?

AV's made quite a few posts about it.

Spoiler: Ludi scum

On the off chance you are town, I know your slot could be a powerful force for the town.

Why do you think it's an off-chance? I've seen hardly anything in a ctrl+F of your ISO to suggest you really have a strong scum read on MoI. Your only real expression of their scumminess is that they voted for you, and your biased to think they must be scum. That doesn't seem like the sort of conviction to make someone say it's at best an "off-chance" that they're town. Especially combined with the claim you make in the very same post above that you're joining it mainly to stir discussion and get town out of the weird place they're in.

So a couple of catch-me-up buttercup questions.

What's this "bad mojo" that will happen if day goes on too long?
Can someone post a concise case against MoI? I asked Pere and he says he can't find one.
Why did the Toasty wagon crumble?

I'm going to put all of these concerns together in a simple action:

Unvote; Vote: MagisterLudi

I already think ML is scum from before my holiday when he used the word "odd" after calling someone out for using the word "odd". That's been solidified by his claim that Pere only put ML in the FoS list because he's been "pressuring us," when if anything he's only on us because I called him out earlier in the game. Then there's his latest post which YUCK.
Alchemist tells us that there is support for this lynch amongst enough players to make this a real possibility for the near future. That takes care of bad mojo.
The lack of a convincing case against MoI makes me wonder why the wagon is so large, and if a lot of those votes are apathetic/day-ending, they would do just as well on ML which is a far superior lynch given what Pere has said to me.
The ToastyWagon (which Pere is on) isn't likely to go anywhere any time soon, so I think our slot's vote can be better used.


[I just searched for a Hippopotamousse image to finish this post, but sadly, I can't find any. This short note to symbolise the hippo-shaped hole that has been left in my heart will have to suffice.]
~AV

Gamma's 447 is also a pretty good find. I don't think singersinger really knows what she is saying here. She puts down a vote on Tammy, and then a few hours (~15) later seemingly forgets where it is, calls tammy super town, and decides to call SpyreX, who was also on the Tammy wagon, scum, and Magua, scum, (who knows why) but doesn't shift her vote to either of them.

You don't see MoI scum.

And MaguaoI is harder for me to give a solid because they voted me, I'm biased in thinking anyone voting me is scum pushing for a mislynch. Of any wagons with multiple votes, this is the one I would join.

The only reason it seems you find him scummy is because he voted you. As a result, you say yourself here that your read isn't solid.

You talked about getting short and to the point in one of your posts, could you do that in explaining what about MoI-scum I, and a few others, are misinterpreting

You don't see MoI scum.

Combined, it isn't easy to get big liquid wagons going. The MoI wagon has taken a long time coming, and it's only at L-3 or so, and it actually doesn't look like it's going to be a lynch. I'm not as sold on their scumminess as I am on others, but I was willing to vote the wagon on the basis of getting something going and getting some meaningful reactions, and lynching someone who isn't in my null section or above.

It's been a long time coming but this is the first real place you've stated a solid suspicion, and even then you're "not as sold" on it. Doesn't sound like there's only an "off chance" on him being scum, does it?

---

Pere's still not checked in...

Okay UN, you had your chance to explain the vote on Tammy"Town"
Unvote; Vote: UberNinja

I'm holding off on other comments until I've spoken to Pere (#firsthydra)
~AV

Reading through, it first struck me as odd that TSH would withhold comments on most things abritrarily, and then post a sentence pointing out the fact that he is withholding comment.

What['s] odd [about it], and [is it] bad? If so, why?

If you think it comes from scum, please say so. Using a word like odd feels.... weasely. It allows you to say something without really making a stance.

FoS: Magister Ludi

...Oops, did you not think I could actually back up what I had to say?

Responding to the most derp points you've made before I leave:

4. I wanted you to quote what you're talking about here, but alas you didnt. I join wagons to lynch people I think are scum, primarily. All else is secondary. Never stated differently.

"I was willing to vote the wagon on the basis of getting something going and getting some meaningful reactions, and lynching someone who isn't in my null section or above. "

"Getting something going" was the first (primary) thing you mentioned.
Coming after "At this point in the game, we've entered a weird sort of zone that is making it hard to get things done.", yeah, you did say your vote was mainly to push us out of a rut.

6. Biggest lie in the game. Your slot posted #257, and then I expressed suspicion of you in post 318, well before you CAN BACK IN and fos'sed me in 355. Please use facts.

Says the guy who thinks we only included him in the Suspect list because he's been "pressuring" us when it's clear that I FoS'd you way before any real pressure on your part - and fuck off, you can't say "odd" expresses suspicion when "It allows you to say something without really making a stance." This is EXACTLY the hypocrisy I was talking about earlier. So kindly eat hemp.

The rest if necessary I will speak about later.

~~~

If this was a "nightly" scum kill I'd expect the day to change.
Spy's suggestion of a country claim is interesting. There should DEFINITELY not be a name claim - hasn't someone already suggested this?

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Haven't heard from AV, but since I don't have any suspects of my own, will keep my vote where it is.

@Gamma- if you are asking for reads, I can give you mine, but they mostly involve who I think it town enough to not vote for at this point.

And I have to ask, so if the answer is obvious, just answer and don't be an ass about it, but considering all of the town in the game, why would scum kill Wyrd?

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

For town, I like:
1. Alchemist (as an alt of Timeater)
2. Teleporting Speed Hippos (AurorusVox + PeregrineV hydra) replacing AurorusVox pregame
5. Duplicity (Regfan + Shift hydra)
7. Glork
9. Hinduragi
14. MaguaofIllusion (MagnaofIllusion + Magua hydra)
24. Tammy
25. Tierce
27. UberNinja

For more-town-than-null I like:
3. Debonair Danny DiPietro
4. dramonic
6. Gammagooey
8. Avenging Angel replacing Haze N1
15. Shmugen replacing MathGirl277 D1
22. singersigner
23. SpyreX

None of these have been discussed with AV, so these are mine only.

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

I agree with most of Pere's town reads. I agree more with the following (but am willing to trust him on the rest):

1. Alchemist (general tone of posts suggest legit scumhunting + he went batshit at OS and blue numberings)
2. Teleporting Speed Hippos (sexy hippo dancing)
5. Duplicity (Pere called it a strong town read way back in QT and what I've seen I've very much liked)
14. MaguaofIllusion (don't buy the wagon against him yesterday + townposting against Katsu - see below)
24. Tammy (am I right in thinking Tammy became somehow confTown yesterday?)
25. Tierce (as above: Tierce is confTown? Otherwise remove her from this list. I don't like her lack of vote)
6. Gammagooey (gutread here)
8. Avenging Angel (I only remember one thing about the post of hers I've read and that was that I liked it)
15. Shmugen (strong townread for Pere (a'la QT) and he's voting ML)

---

As for scum reads, I still think ML is scum

I also don't like Katsu's half-assed "counterclaim" comment - it's leaving too many options open. Plus since MoI is a townread, and he says there are essentially extenuating circumstances, it looks highly unlikely it could be a legit cc to me, and I hate the idea he'd be willing to lie about his role to get MoI lynched. In Möbius strip logic it also strengthens my townread on MoI; I don't think MoI would complicate a fakeclaim if Katsu's cc'ing. I'd be willing to throw a vote down over there.

The other scumread that I'd talk about is LLD. I didn't like her vendetta against Oman yesterday. I think I've seen her play like that before as scum (Memento Mafia?) and it's crap to say but it feels like she's using GI relations to obscure her alignment. "Oh no I'd get pissed for this regardless of alignment" style.

~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Also Shmugen scum flip

How about the fact Shmugen was steadfast trying to lynch me all of today?

Scummy post. But as others have said, you've been :townposting: in other places. Fuck you.

Can we all take a moment and look at TSH's ISO please?

Lots of votes with little explanation, a bit of fluff posting and that's it.

Why didn't you vote us then? Scumbag.

MoI VCA post
You said scum won't be bunched up, thus confirming HazeTown: why then did you leave out the post ML made about the Implosion-TSH-Schmugen 1-2-3 votes on ToastyToast which follows the same logic?

I'm happy with this:

Unvote; Vote: Nexus

~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@ML: from Vi's Comprehensive Modding Guide
The other preferred precaution is to deliberately leave out main characters and use them as safeclaims for the scum groups.

Fuck

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Being prodded means I can't really wait any longer for Pere's input on this, but based on what he said in the QT I think we're good to go...

We do not believe Nexus' BG claim

Why?
Because

we

have a BG role which works a little differently from his.
It is a small difference, but it matters enough to make us think that his claim is fake.
In fact, if it were HUGELY different, I might be more inclined to believe it was real.

Now, I am willing to clarify this difference. I don't know about Pere.
But I won't go into any more detail unnecessarily.
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Full credit to Pere for spotting this btw.

SCUM GETTIN' DESTROYED YO
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Anybody disagree with SpyreX's recounting of that incident? I am not going back to read it and I am going to accept 2650 on face otherwise.

It sounds pretty accurate.

Re: DDD
The thing I noticed and pointed out in the QT was why was DDD on all of the leading wagons at all points in the game EXCEPT Nexus?

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

MoI, did you know you were fakehammering?

Pere and I were "._." about the quicklynch, I don't really see the rush when the bluedeaths APPEAR to be from the SK who is now dead.

(D1 - daykill; N1 - 2 kills; D2 - daykill; N2 - 1 kill)
Numberwang wants me to say that the bluedeaths are SKs, and the scumkill N1 was from something else (what though?). A sadistic part of me wants to see what happens if the day DOES continue - since it took out scum D2, I'm not convinced it's necessarily a blue number of doom, more likely SK, potentially alternating day vig/scum extra kill?

Need to ISO DDD, will also talk to Pere, and would be interested in the confirmable ability but not necessarily today; DDD's apparent confidence that the wagon wasn't from a guilty speaks towntell for me since he was so cocksure about it and look how it got walked back (or was never even here). Potential GF but I'm ~eh~ on the wagon for now

Would immediately vote: UberNinja (sheeping Tierce) or Nikanor (sheeping Hindu).

SpySpy: your take on Nikanor?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Vote: UberNinja

I need to trawl through his ISO to give conclusive proof but I'm sure he's contradicted himself several times regarding his stance on the DDD wagon now.

Been reading along on my phone. I watched with ABSOLUTE HORROR as Tammy needlessly name claimed. I have a gut scumread but that could be out of pure disgust. Like, it looks more like scum in the ultimate AtE than town legitimately pissed, but it will work itself out in the wash. Shame that Hindu Lovered himself to her really. Oh yeah, and I don't like the way that Tammy has been reacting to Tierce, like, Tierce has had WAY MORE than just the point Tammy has fixated on and to treat it otherwise is suspect.
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Vote: DDD

for the lulz I guess (mostly because Nik said so, Glork not so much), but I want to actually try to get into the game and be useful at some point, so if somebody would explain to me like I was a raw fuckin newbie, that'd be perfectamundo

Playing the ignorant sheep.

I, like SpyreX, see no smoking gun on DDD and nobody's pointed it out to me.

This has been pointed out already but here he complains that he hasn't seen any reason to be on the wagon he's CURRENTLY ON.

Hey Tierce that's a really cool vote, and I'mma let you finish, but DDD's one of the coolest wagons of ALL TIME.

I recognise the pop-culture reference may mask the seriousness of the point BUT NEVERTHELESS he calls it one of the coolest wagons of ALL TIME implying he at least sees a reason to be on it. This contradicts BOTH the previous points.

When did Spyrex stop being your Number 1 100% sheepable Town read?

Why not mention who are your actual scum suspects on your wagon? Just saying "everyone is suspect" when 3 Mafia and 1 likely SK are already dead looks like scum not wanting to lay down reads.

When he showed absolutely no interest in trying on D2; he was and is still town but it wasn't useful to follow him since he wasn't going anywhere.

Because I'm going to somehow get this wagon taken apart without having to claim and playing "these are my final reads" just gives some lazy asshole off my wagon permission to lynch me; permission denied.

Unvote: DDD

Unvotes DDD. Matches #2, not #3 though. At this point I

could

buy that he never really believed in DDD scum (#1 and #2 support this) but then why not unvote sooner? Why call it a cool wagon if he didn't believe it was on scum? Why explicitly unvote based on something DDD says (implying THIS POST BY DDD

CHANGED

his mind - presumably from SCUM to TOWN)? Okay fine. From "null" to town but then does that match #3? No. Because a wagon on a nullread can't be worth Tierce voting it as one of the coolest wagons of ALL TIME.

HERE'S THE KICKER THOUGH

idk anything about them right now so i couldn't in good conscience vote either

they don't seem as cut-and-dried as the ddd case did at the beginning of the day (also, you ain't no nikanor)

explain both cases pl0x and i'll give you some lovin'

OKAY

So here we have UN claiming that he doesn't know anything about kkb/dram and so couldn't wagon them.
BUT
Didn't he wagon DDD whilst explicitly not knowing anything about it? (quote 1)
In which case, HOW was the DDD case cut and dry and the beginning of the day?

And WHY does he need to wait on having the case explained BEFORE voting, when as you can see from Quote 2, he kept his vote on DDD

DESPITE

the case on him not being explained to his satisfaction?

RESULT
UN is scum, KKB is probBuddy.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

PS you can vote yourself now.
~AV (and above)

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

You explicitly said you needed DDDscum explaining to you.
Shame you didn't keep your end of the bargain on the self vote though.
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Just stopping in to say Pere is out of action for a while, I have THINGS to say but I just want to run them past him first.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

We targeted DDD last night.
We did not block his death, or we wouldn't be here.

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Hippo power killed threadsplosion...

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

WILL HYDRAPOST THIS SHIT LATER ON PHONE AND VERY IMPORTANT

DO NOT LYNCH GREY
OUR ROLE CONFIRMS HE IS IN THE GAME

It's the same reason MOI died - we can only protect certain roles OF WHICH GREY IS ONE.

ABORT LYNCH ABORT LYNCH

Ps this means we DID protect moi while he was alive.
It's also why I tried to hold off on revealing this yesterday - keep scum in the dark about our prs limitations.

But now we have our target, we are home free.
Unless you bellends lynch him.

Pedit: if we called for a mass name claim, we can only confirm a minority AND if there is more than one that we can protect, we still can't protect every rolename claimed at once?

Quote tag fixed. ~Vi

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@hindu, lynchees have nameclaimed as appropriate. Let's hold off on this questioning until necessary.

Lld should probably out her result before we end the day since we'll obv be on grey tonight etc

Also, can people calm down on the "hurry up and claim tsh" stuff when the thread had only been open for a couple of hours. I was asleep, and things like how much of our role to reveal is something Pere and I should discuss.

If this thing with grey hadn't happened we'd have had to ditch the ambiguity left open by us NOT claiming our protects. Not that it matters now but I think the reason lld wasn't killed last night was because scum thought we'd be on her.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Lol at time suggesting we're scum.

@rhinox whilst nothing in the pm confirms greyice is town, his role (apostle sanaki) gives the name apostles army. I believe this basically tells us grey is town.

@tammy, we couldn't protect lld. I figured our leader would be a pr so discounted vt claims. I also thought she'd hint the role so discounted those who hadn't claimed (or softclaimed). Ddd claimed confirmable pr, I wondered if it was because he knew someone was searching for him.

ps I'm trying to remain ambiguous on the topic of how many protection targets we have so that scum don't know how much of a threat we are.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

^^^^^^^^Rhinox is probably scum.
We claim APOSTLE Sanaki is IN THE GAME and you call into question whether she could be scum?
Sounds to me like someone forgot that Apostle's Army is the name of the TOWN faction.

---

Time, why would GreyScum = TSH scum? Explain that crooked logic to me because it weighs heavily on how much I believe your CC.

Atm, I think Grey has more REASON to fakeclaim Sanaki than Time does BUT Time's attitude towards our confirmation that SANAKI IS IN THE GAME is bonkers if he's really Sanaki himself, and is making me doubt it.

I'm going back and forth on whether less information regarding our knowledge of role info harms town more than it harms scum...

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Time, why would GreyScum = TSH scum? Explain that crooked logic to me because it weighs heavily on how much I believe your CC.

I dont like the connections you've been implying with Grey. Can you perhaps restate a few things concerning your role interactions with Grey and the name Sanaki?

I've implied no connections, what are you smoking?

All I've said is that we know Sanaki is in the game and that our BG works on her.
Given the town is the APOSTLE'S ARMY, the role (Apostle Sanaki) HIGHLY suggests that whoever has that role is town aligned.
Grey claimed the role, hence I wanted to stop him being lynched because at the time there was no reason to doubt that Grey was telling the truth.

Work with me here because I am more likely to believe that GreyICE was trying to draw the CC or get himself off the hook, than you (as scum) are giving yourself a death warrant.


NOW
As for the idea that scum must kill only the country leaders.

How many leaders (or "important people") are left alive, do we think? If there's ONLY Sanaki, then this could very well be an Alchemist scumgambit. But that would still not account for the missing kill. Given that Alch claimed the block on GI, in the scenario where it was a scumgambit to CC, it suggests Alch KNEW Grey was Sanaki (if the RB claim was to try to get GI lynched). In which case, why not just shoot GI last night?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

ALCH:

When

did you get whatever power you got?

IIIIFFFFFF we wanted to be super cautious we could lynch Rhinox today, Alch RB's Grey again, and I'll protect Alch, whilst LLD investigates one of them?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

No, he's saying it's doesn't matter if they have fakeclaims; if Grey is scum, he claimed Sanaki to draw the CC. Like scum claiming Doc looking for CCs for their team, even if doc isn't a fakeclaim.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

That's also bugging me, actually: I do think that Grey would have claimed it as "Apostle Sanaki" if he was legit.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

And Rhinox~

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Someone protect me please.

wut

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

I mean seriously, Alch. Explain that please.

Why request that "someone" protects you when you know it'll be the hippo of love?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Our role confirms Sanaki is in the game. So stop the jibberjabber ToastyScum.

Vote: ToastyToast

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

PS on the subject of LLD

Why would the cop be a Miller?
Doesn't being a miller kinda suggest there'd need to be SOMEONE to get a skew-whiff result from it...?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

PPS I haven't read the last two pages and I won't until tomorrow as it's now beddybyes time.
Please don't spam overnight. I will read on the bus but if there's any DESPERATE HIPPO NECESSITY then please wait for it to be forthcoming.

@Gamma, oh yeah, non-role flips~

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Our country is Bengion.

We can claim as soon as Glork is done with his thing.

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

@Tammy- If you are a thread hider/leaver, and Hindu is parasitically attached to you and suffers your fate, then how was LLD able to target him, considering you weren't here?

Or did I miss something on the way Hindu's role works and your role works?

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Hippo Love Targets

N1-3, MoI - did not work as MoI is not protectable by us
N4, DDD based on his supposed "confirmable claim" (and because LLDcop was not protectable by us)
N5 + ...no target. "Chaos" took our BG away from us. We were holding off on the claim whilst Alch was alive as a kind of WIFOM protection for him. I imagine we attracted the RB last night anyway, even though it wouldn't have had any impact.

I suspect chaos' interference means scum are getting closer to fulfilling their wincon.
It's scary because, well--even though we're way ahead in numbers, it might not even matter.

DDD's countrycop list is laughable. He's today's lynch.
Toasty can also die for being no-kill-blocked and useless (I don't care about modkills, you should submit at the start of the day and change if necessary).

On that note, however, Glork the issue with your plan ("Toasty blocks X if DDD flips Y) is that Toasty must submit his target before the flip.

...and on a tinfoil note, does anyone else think Tammy's power is...too unbelievably powerful for town? Perma BP that scum need to kill. Or is vi relying on wifom to have us lynch him?

@Hindu </3

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

All people who have already flipped, claimed, or been targeted by LLD?
You're a mafia country cop who's offering up ONE country that we don't already have~

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

What's confusing? You have a Country Cop power, but you're not giving us your real results.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Hmph. You mean "I believe Benmage, at least partially" (left deliciously ambiguous, but you could argue this refers to the blue colour)
I can see that BUT if he's scum faking country cop, he'd still believe Benmage, at least partially, right?

@Tierce, "unfair" is a strange choice. I find it suspicious that his claimed targets are basically already out there.
I could go for a toasty lynch today if there's anti-paranoia.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Do you think scum wouldn't capitalise on getting three flips in one go?
We obv disagree so don't answer that.

But before today I thought DDD was probTown enough to put our protect there, so I don't really see how this is confirmation bias >_>

Hipperpderp

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Lecture received.
Aaaand actually, 2x Town Country Cops makes sense if LSD is a miller.
Because as I said earlier, cop-miller is a little strange without another cop.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Skimmed iso hippo reaction to the sanaki stuff was pretty bad

He'd sooner believe GI over one of his supposed "townreads" in alchy.

How so?
We immediately believed GI when he claimed.
When Alch claimed, if you actually read, I specifically said that I wanted to believe ALCH but he was being bonkers.
I said it MORE THAN ONCE that I thought GI had more reason to fake the claim than Alchemist.
So take this trash away.

---

I've felt quite uneasy about TSH for a bit now, but I'm willing to accept that's paranoia on my end.

I don't know why they were unable to protect Alchemist and not sure about the Chaos thing.

We were unable to protect Alchemist because of the Chaos mechanic. I believe this mechanic limits town PRs, but I'm not sure how: it'll either be based on time (possible, but least likely), claims (is it more than coincidence that our role became redundant after our target claimed?), gamestate (town PRs scaling down as scum are killed off), or it's the RB from the scumteam.

Do bodyguards typically get told when they're bodyguarding abilities would no longer work?

Being told has nothing to do with us being a BG, and everything to do with us being caught up in the chaos mechanic.

Why would they assume they had been roleblocked anyway?

Because I don't think scum risk killing Alch unless they knew we were not going to be a factor.

Also, why are they trying to either fish for more information on my ability or say that wifom was included to lynch me? If they assume they've been roleblocked, then they know my ability has limitations. If I am on the list, and scum has a roleblocker, all they have to do is block me - I can't leave - and then kill me. That hasn't happened, so either I'm not on the list or they don't have a roleblocker anymore. And, I'm rather inclined to think that GreyIce was the roleblocker.

I wasn't aware your ability could even BE blocked - surely the fact that you can LEAVE prevents actions occurring on your slot?

But, this could be paranoia talking.

[REDACTED]

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

2. Teleporting Speed Hippos - TOWN
3. Debonair Danny DiPietro - Country Cop (#2) - ProbTown based on LLD-Miller
6. Gammagooey - ??? - I've not really noticed much of anything from GG. Was he town from D1 play?
7. Glork - Seeker/Psychiatrist - Town from play (+ anything else?)
9. Hinduragi - Oneway LoverMaker (Mr Bombastic) - claim makes him probTown
11. Katsuki - ??? - Why has there been little talk about KatsuScum? Have I forgotten something?
12. Lady Lambdadelta - Country Cop (#1) - Possible town with DDD based on MillerCop claim, but thinking about it, she has yet to catch scum OR be killed. Possibly suspicious?
13. Magister Ludi - ??? - I sometimes forget he's in the game
17. Nikanor - Crimea, claimed from LLD - Hindu wants to lynch him; was there a reason why this hasn't happened sooner?
22. singersigner - self vote ._." - probably not eager to lynch it today though
24. Tammy - Kilvas leader/Day or Night Commuter - claims can be blocked (doesn't make sense with Commuter claim) - hasn't been blocked OR killed yet? Ehh.
25. Tierce - VT - probTown
26. ToastyToast - RB and Neighbourizer - been blocked on 2 nights of NKs (I think?) - strange CC to Alch though. Hmm.
29. danakillsu replacing Zdenek D1 - confTown from MoI, but not yet killed (strange?)

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

I'm happy to defer to judgements of townTierece here re: players being town.

RE the no deaths of:

LLD - okay, I understand that she's not gonna be on the kill list
Tammy - claimed a country leader, and hasn't died yet - but I can put this down to not wanting to waste a kill (or maybe actually wasting it - see no kills) - so okay
But Dana? How do they know Dana isn't on the kill list? Has Dana claimed? :s

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Dana is still confTown and doesn't get lynched barring extreme bastardmod, I just find it a little strange is all and felt it was worth a mention ._."

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

26. ToastyToast - RB and Neighbourizer - been blocked on 2 nights of NKs (I think?) - strange CC to Alch though. Hmm.

No, only one. How was my CC strange?

I mean, it would be strange for you to CC Alch as scum. I think it's a towntell on your part.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Yeah, I don't think you being left alive is alignment indicative anymore~

Blame being high on Steam Sales.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

AV is semi out. I'll catch up tomorrow.

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

1. Toasty
2. Gamma
3. ML
4. Nik

Nice list, but I want to add Kats in there too~

There cannot be 2 country cops. There just can't. I won't subscribe to that BS.

Why would you be countryMiller without another cop?
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Because we think scum will try to push us as possible scum based on the fact that our BG disappeared, resulting in Sanaki's death.
In addition, if Chaos is a scum controlled ability, then PermaBlocking us in this way increases the likelihood that scum will push on us for the fact that Alch died.

Plus your take on our reaction to the Sanaki claims is terrible.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

-If anyone is reading the thread, who claimed first out of DDD/LLD? Anyone have the post numbers handy?

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

ddd claimed confirmable role day 3, then claimed country cop today although he HEAVILY crumbed his targets on several days since then.
lld claimed d3 to get spyrex lynched because she got a no result on him n2, and claimed results on nik n1, me n3 i think, hindu d6, and i forget the rest.

AV said something about Miller cop.

~P

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

I could lynch Ludi today, if only for D1-suspicion-developing-into-incorrect-townread paranoia. I'd much prefer Ludi over LLD or DDD since I think they are both TownCountryCops.

Why do people think Kats is town, again?

And are the last few pages worth reading? Or is it more LLD saying DDD is scum cuz, and DDD saying he's not cuz, and etc?
~AV

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Vote: MagisterLudi

Are we time sensitive again?

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Also, Vi games are required to make sense. They're complex, but they're not shitty and arbitrary. Throwing three roles that figure out countries and countering them by making them effectively useless is not remotely competent game design.

Three? >.<"

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

Vote: LLD

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

We could definitely have gotten LLD lynched today Glork.

[Teleporting Speed Hippos]

I mean, the LLD-Toasty combo you suggested in your hammerpost is much better than the "DDD as scum crumbed his investigations all game, but cornered himself into claiming country-cop today, and also LLD is Daein without any other country cop out there" theory.