The game of the year: town won!

[Zdenek]

I think that RedFF is a solid policy lynch.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple of mimes on CK's wagon.

Rhinox, I'm scum and I hate your idea.

This is a possible slip.

Systemofadown has a good point about mini-librarian voting for a policy lynch of someone she's unfamiliar with.

VOTE: IceGuy

LOL

How can you even believe his lies?

This is a pretty blatant exaggeration.

I'm actually legitimately suspicious of Johhog. Does anyone else feel similarly?

Yes.

I'm actually legitimately suspicious of Johhog. Does anyone else feel similarly?

Why is that? I'm pretty null on him.

I see. Let's see how it goes, but I wouldn't mind Johhog as a late D1 lynch if we're short of other targets.

CANNOT COMPREHEND

UNVOTE: IceGuy
VOTE: izakthegoomba

This is a terrible reaction - he's scum for being okay with lynching someone's null on?

I could get behind lynching Johhog.

With the high number of scum we can expect in this game, mini's VT claim doesn't do anything for me.

If I wasn't an extremely important role I'd advocate my own lynch to get things moving.

Vague, unforced powerrole claim.

I'll vote once I've decided who probably isn't a mime.

[Zdenek]

Considering there is really no reason we should lynch TML, let's cull the retards.

VOTE: petapan

With this post and his earlier posts that make me think he was trying to take advantage of an early game policy lynch, I strongly think IceGuy is a mime.

[Zdenek]

p-edit: Johhog is not town. Guaranteed now.

100% agreed.

K good, you're derptown.

Matt, the best move for scum is to lurk d1, especially in this game. Not WIFOM claim Mime/Mafia. If you think I'm scum, you must also assume I am retarded.

I am bosstown and you shouldn't fakeclaim mime and not expect me to tunnel you to your death for it.

p-edit: Fuck you're town. I fucking hate you.

Which of his posts changed your mind?

[Zdenek]

Chronologies, why is t-bone town?

Peta's Elmo observation is spot on.

Vote: Elmo

[Zdenek]

Also, callforjudgement townslipped in 498 by mentioning the possibility of pre-game talk when mykonian obviously started the game as soon as PMs were sent out.

This is just terrible.

Oh look, a wagon I can jump on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: T-bone

I still want UberNinja lynched. If this fails, I'm hopping back.

Jumping on a wagon instead of pushing one on someone he thinks is scum.

Does this role have anything to do with you alignment? Or can it go to any alignment?

This question looks pointless.

Part of it was annoyance, and I wanted to use the same shitty logic he seemed to be using in regards to policy lynch wagons.

How could you possibly think this was a good idea?

also VOTE: Spyrex

Why?

My apologies Milk, my initial suspicion was based on your first post, where you hammered the Chesskid-mime.

Buddying.
I also still want to know why you think that T-bone is town.

BBMolla is seedy and seems a better choice than T-Bone.

My vote on BBMolla was more of a policy vote

It does not seem like that's the case to me.

Also, Tech's partner hunting is bullshit.

Anyone else willing to throw TeCh in the town pile?

Are you reading his posts?

Muffin is far too eager to call people town.

He does seem scummy though, but BB always does, so I find him hard to read.

So you are an alt?

Why are you trying to obscure your mafia experience?

And yeah sorry about your lynch in Paranoia. Should have went for Akonas in the end /sigh

Buddying.

Think that MoneyBags would play this way as town or as scum, but I'd be fine with policy lynching him.

I've played with T-Bone (briefly in one game, at least) and this is what I'd expect from him. I'd like MattP to explain his meta case on T-Bone because I don't see it.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, my read on T-bone is in reference to a game that no longer exists due to the crash, with my fortune.

Did he play similarly in his other scum games? Can you recall how his play in that game is different from his usual town game? After just ISOing T-Bone, I don't see him as being a good lynch. He's being open with reads, fairly aggressive and useful.

I don't care for Amrun's defense of UberNinja in 789. It reminds me of Amrun's play in Flash mafia 4, eaten by the crash, where she was also aggressively unhelpful. Here she's reducing the pressure on a slot that needs to provide more.

I'm pretty sure that Muffin is pulling reads out of his ass. One thing that struck me was the difference in his reads on manho and MoS, but here are all their posts at that point.

28 pages.

i will skip them all.

is there TL;DR?

ok, i lied. i've read the opening post.

but what's a mime?

33 pages in a day and a half. Fuck this shit, literally. The only reason I don't replace out right now is because I made a deal with myko and I don't think he's going to find that many people willing to replace. Seriously, I'm not going to reread a single post that I miss in this game cuz fuck you guys. Also, still V/LA.

I also think he is being far too liberal with his town reads and his scum reads are poorly justified. So that long post of his was awful.

UN agreeing with it for no reason is also terrible.

YOU ALT?

I've been asked this already, the answer is no.

Maybe try contributing more than one liners? Scumreads? Townreads? Anything that can be classed as contribution other than a vote?

From where are you getting your background on bbmolla?

I'm okay with Trevor being day vigged, primarily for his role fishing and because it looks like he'll be useless.

Vote: Muffin Wednesday

[Zdenek]

Hmm, just noticed that you idiots have managed to kill off 8 town players so far. Good fucking job, lmfao...

This is such bullshit. It says right in the first post that the mimes lost and were removed from the game. I can't see how you could have come to the conclusion that they are pro-town.

We can add the fact that muffin hammered moneybags when he (muffin) needed to reread and after essentially saying nothing about moneybags all game to reasons that muffin is scum.

[Zdenek]

Muffin is scum because

1. He has too many, unjustified or poorly justified reads. I especially think that he is too eager to call people town.

2. The difference in his reads on Manho and MoS makes no sense.

3. He hammered moneybags when he (muffin) needed to reread and after essentially saying nothing about moneybags all game.

[Zdenek]

1. Town reads are MUCH easier to get than town reads. I'm pretty sure I've said this somewhere before. As for the other reads, it's a pretty big game. I'll try to justify my reads better in the future, though.

2. Explain.

3. He claimed VT, he was likely getting lynched anyway, he wasn't really being useful, and claiming VT had already saved one person. I think my hammer was justified.

What are your reads besides me being scum?

1. Town represents a larger percentage of the total, so it's easy to fool yourself into thinking that you're right about them. Also calling people town can be subtle buddying. I think you should reveal your main account, since it should make reading you easier and perhaps lend some credence to your town-hunting.

2. I already did. Good to know that you aren't reading the thread. Why don't you explain why you read them differently?

3. I don't really care about whether you think your hammer was justified or not.
Town thought process: I need to reread and decide if I should hammer.
Your thought process: Hammer. I need to reread the thread.

I've said what I think about people as I've gone through the thread, I'll compile my reads later.

[Zdenek]

So you're saying he's scum that has been buddying so much that he fooled himself into thinking he had actual town reads?

What the hell.

No, I think that town-hunting at is stage of the game is probably illegitimate. I am sure that town-hunting like this:

Hoopla's Post 53 doesn't feel scum-motivated, at all. Her first sentence almost definitely wouldn't have been so blatant if she were scum.

Also, callforjudgement townslipped in 498 by mentioning the possibility of pre-game talk when mykonian obviously started the game as soon as PMs were sent out.

Luffy's 400 reads unnecessary and therefore gut town.

is illegitmate. There are probably other examples, but I am bored of reading.

Finally, I think that calling people town can subtle buddying. I think that is in fact what Muffin Wed. is doing, since these reasons for calling people town don't make any sense.

Manho is a slight town read because he is posting shit which should be blatantly anti-town. I don't know if manho is above (or below) the level he appears to be at, but I don't think he'd be like that as scum.

MoS did sorta the same thing manho did, but with more AtE. I think he could pull off the blatant anti-town look as scum. It's mostly null, however, because his post was based on emotion.

What the fuck is this? Someone being anti-town is terrible reason to have a slight town read on them.

Because he was a generally useless claimed VT, I know he's usually useless and I wasn't going to get a sudden message from God telling me he was town.

So why do you think that RedFF is town, and what makes you think that MoneyBags wasn't capable of doing the same thing?

Yessir VOTE: CC

This is Muffin Wednesday abandoning a vote on his top scum read for someone he's null on.

The problem here is that there are simply too many players. It's impossible to tell who's scum.

BTW, I think UberNinja is town. I simply don't see scum playing that way, and the wagon seems sort of forced.

Why do you think it's IMPOSSIBLE to tell who is scum? A large game might make it harder, but surely people can still stand out from the crowd. Just requires you to scumhunt harder.

Hmm, just noticed that you idiots have managed to kill off 8 town players so far. Good fucking job, lmfao...

This is such bullshit. It says right in the first post that the mimes lost and were removed from the game. I can't see how you could have come to the conclusion that they are pro-town.

We can add the fact that muffin hammered moneybags when he (muffin) needed to reread and after essentially saying nothing about moneybags all game to reasons that muffin is scum.

Check his wall and subsequent vote on Fritzler, another example of Muffin's potential scumminess. However I'm not sure I find hammering a claimed VT completely scummy. Your saying that no one, as town, would hammer a claimed VT that was suspected scum in a 50 player game? It seems a common sentiment throughout that the first few lynches don't matter until we wittle down to the remaining few. Something I strongly disagree with, but a prevailing attitude nonetheless, and I could see a town player doing it.

What catches my attention though is when you stated that he 'needed to reread and... essentially saying nothing about moneybags'. THAT would ring alarmbells for me. Hammering a suspected scum that claimed VT vs hammering someone everyone else thinks is scum but you have no idea, that claimed VT, is a different story. Will go back and read muffin's posts to see if this is an accurate claim.

Posts like this give me terrible vibes. Techo starts off with pro-town fluff, telling FB1 to scumhunt harder. Then he misrepresents my comment about moneybag's hammer to ask me what looks to me like a rhetorical question. He follows that up with more pre-town fluff about how he thinks that lynches matter. Finally he correctly interprets my comment about Muffins and says that he is going to go back to verify it.

No. You guess wrong. Did you even read my analysis here, post 940

Luffy, your analysis is basically nonsense because there is no reason to suppose that your scenario 2 is more likely than scenario 1 (for what it's worth, I actually think that scenario 1 is more likely because this is a very large game that's moving quickly and we've got a lot of lynches to use).

In a game this large, most/all of the big wagons will have scum pushing them.

Look at some of the smaller wagons e.g Milk/uberninja. If you're town you should jump on a slower forming wagon because all the fast forming wagons will inevitably be scum led.

Look at some of the smaller wagons e.g Milk/uberninja. If you're town you should jump on a slower forming wagon because all the fast forming wagons will inevitably be scum led.

Yes, or the T-bone/spyrex ones.

But really, look at the T-bone wagon. All of the votes are leftover votes and/or votes with no justification. Infact, if T-bone flips scum, Trollie is almost confimed scum. Theamatuer would look very bad also, for vote-sitting. He is justifying the vote now with something different than the first time when he voted him a while ago, so his vote is now looking like a lazy attempt at distancing. Right now, I honestly think that a T-bone lynch would help us out the most, and he is suspicious as hell.

Please stop. You're both crazy.

VOTE: T-Bone

I'd rather VOTE: T-Bone at this point.

So you're a kondi alt?

I like the point Chevre made about Elmo's Spyrex vote.

MoS' active lurking is making me crazy.

Techno's responses to Staeg's attack give me a gut town read on him. Especially his attempt to figure out what Staeg is thinking by considering the fact that he sheeped Spyrex earlier.

Of the leading wagon's I am most inclined to back the CC one. See Imaginality's 1097.

wait, kondi is not even in the player list.

Yea, his vote isn't being counted by the mod.

Also, people should be mass unvoting CC right about now and jumping on another wagon, because the Captain wagon is pretty much ridiculous. It would've been fine to lynch CC with one of our other 4 lynches, but using up the last one on him is stupid.

What do you think of Imaginality's 1097?

Fair enough. VOTE: SpyreX

Can we please lynch muffins? This is another bad vote from him.

The Spyrex - T-Bone relationship argument that people are getting into is stupid. Yes, there's a chance that Spyrex is scum, but if he is, it's not because of this.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, since you're sitting here. What good lynch do you think can still happen today?

We get five week for day one, so I'm not all that concerned about time. As I said, of the main wagons, I'd currently back the CC one.

[Zdenek]

Elmo wants to go 1v1 with techno, but his scum read on techno has seemed to have vanished, since his vote is "for sale." However, I can't argue with is vote on Lowman because this

But based on the part I've read I do agree with the current lynch target.

is terrible.

I'd be up for policy lynching MoS because he is intentionally playing in a way that makes him impossible to read, and he is doing nothing,

I don't understand the town reads on Hoopla and I think they are either dumb or fabricated.

Hey guys the wagon that takes one page to get to 6 votes is probably not on scum.

This is pretty terrible, since the wagon carried over from day one. Who do you think was scum on the wagon?

I have a pretty solid town read on Trevor at the moment.

It was a Lyncher team of six consisting of me, BB, DeityKabuto, shotty, Kassadin, and chesskidsgirl.

I don't understand the point of this, since you listed players who are not in the game, and basically ruined the gambit.


Most of the conversion following that annoys me, but I can see bbmolla trying to push his gambit along, This post, however, really rubs me the the wrong way.

I don't see the point in playing a 50 player game if Mimes and Lynchers that can end it with 40 players alive.

Something must be up.

I expect better from Hoopla and this failure to pick up on the gambit doesn't seem legit to me.

Spyrex pointed this out too, and Hoopla accusing him of OMGUS. This attempt of hers to dispel suspicion on her by acting as though it is unwarranted doesn't sit well with me.

Hey, can someone who is bored do ISO Zdenek, Trollie, and Chronopie, and give thoughts please? I think all 3 can fit the flying under radar scum profile.

What the fuck is this? You just gave your reads and now you're asking someone who is bored to do ISOs of the slots? Talk about poisoning the well and trying to drum up support for a lynch without pushing it.

I might read the Techno - Amrun argument carefully later, but for now, I've skipped most of it. Of what I did read, all want to say is that I want Techno to take it to heart and stop pushing garbage.

I don't understand Peregrine's vote on Trevor.

I'm bored with pushing Kondi and I'm starting here today

Vote: Hoopla

[Zdenek]

Well, I was all set to vote Trevor over the CFJ votecount fiasco thing.

Then I saw THIS scumbuffet:

Trevor dying inexplicably would be grand.

GRAND, I tell you.

I swear, UN, you get scummier every time I play with you. Eat some rope.

No vote?

[Zdenek]

Trevor, why did you unvote Peregrine?

[Zdenek]

I feel as though Peregrine just has some shitty townreads but his lists are the only thing holding me back from being 100% sure of him being scum.

because I am not really sure what you are talking about here.

[Zdenek]

Can we lynch Hoopla?

[Zdenek]

No.

I think you're scum, and even if I thought you were town, I wouldn't trust you read her correctly, so needless to say, I don't about your answer.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Luffy

[Zdenek]

Trevor, why did you unvote Peregrine?

[Zdenek]

:

To place my vote on YYR.

Okay, so what is the deal with the "lists" of Peregrine you were talking about? I don't know what you are referring to.

[Zdenek]

Everything bolded, Zdenek.

His town list is a pretty shitty reason to think that he's town.

Misinformed implies town. The scum know themselves, and are therefore informed.

But clearly you weren't thinking as deeply as I was. VOTE: BB

Why are you assuming that there is only one scum team?

I'm not moving my vote.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Kondi

I'd be willing to vote for Lowman just to see the flip, but the fact that he's still self-voting gives me pause.

Preview edit.
Trevor, wtf? Why are you so sure Lowman is town?
I'll look over UN.

[Zdenek]

I'd be willing to vote for Lowman just to see the flip, but the fact that he's still self-voting gives me pause.

Are you kidding me? Can you read people at all?

Q: Trevor, wtf? Why are you so sure Lowman is town?

A: self-voting

Except WIFOM. Treating self-voting as implying town on it's own is stupid.

[Zdenek]

I'd be willing to vote for Lowman just to see the flip, but the fact that he's still self-voting gives me pause.

Are you kidding me? Can you read people at all?

Q: Trevor, wtf? Why are you so sure Lowman is town?

A: self-voting

Except WIFOM. Treating self-voting as implying town on it's own is stupid.

Fair enough, but you seriously can't tell me you can't formulate any read on him and must see his flip. Some people have been saying the same shit all game. Lynch obvious town, we get info, lynch another obvious town/lurker etc.

A Lowman scum flip would be a good reason to go over the luffy wagon with a fine toothed comb. At the moment, the only reason I see to not lynch him is the self- vote, and that's not a great reason. Also voting/lynching lurkers would be a positive thing in this game.

[Zdenek]

So you're just not going to try to read him? Tell me right now if he's scum or town. You have as much time as you want. Give me one answer.

No. I am not going to give you a read on someone who I don't have a read on. He has six posts, and he could go either way.

[Zdenek]

^Lynch it.

[Zdenek]

Good explanation sir

10/10 would read again

LOL at you commenting on the lack of an explanation.

[Zdenek]

Holy crap Zdenek, you read kondi as scum based on the fact that you think kondi says there is only one team, but cannot put even the slightest read on Lowman?

No, I don't read him as scum for that. Have you been paying attention at all?

[Zdenek]

Apathy is going to eat this game if it doesn't become immediately clear that apathy = death.

I will shamelessly sheep all of your reads if you flip town, based 100% on this part of your post.

You still need to die though, unfortunately. Otherwise I will never forgive myself if you're scum.

Jesus Christ. This seems incredibly disingenuous. It's like you're buddying with him, in case he flips town, and setting up a rationale to not be held accountable for your vote.

[Zdenek]

I'm not interested in lynching Spyrex.
I'd be fine with lynching a lurker.
I'd still prefer a Kondi lynch.

[Zdenek]

I understand the point against Chevre for over justifying his vote on Luffy, but since this game is likely to be multiscum (despite the N1 results). I don't think that it's as good of a tell as it is when there is just one scum team because Chevre couldn't have known that Luffy was town. I understand why he came under suspicion, but I don't think that the case against him is all that strong.

but the sad truth is that scums are much less likely to self-vote than town, so i think both kondi and lowman is town.

I think that whatever town-cred they hope to pick up for this antic vanishes the minute they move their vote.

why is there so many people self-voting. it is almost always against your win con. you shouldn't be able to gain town-cred by self-voting.

but the sad truth is that scums are much less likely to self-vote than town, so i think both kondi and lowman is town.

What do you think about SpyreX's continual acceptance and desire for his lynch? Same category?

It can definitely be scum WIFOM, but Spyrex does, to some degree, seem genuinely uncaring about his lynch, and not very defensive about it. He just seems hungry for blood. Not sure how to read it.

I know this didn't involve me, but for the future, please don't answer questions directed to other people.

I didn't remember he made that are even worse. And it looks sort-of like he was trying to excuse them by pretending they didn't exist and hoping nobody would check;

Which posts are these?

I don't really care for Chevre's scum-hunting by looking at the suspicions of the flipped players especially when he missed Imaginality's at first.

Just making a note here about the wagons:

It seems impossible to get Kondi lynched.
Chevre was driven up.
A wagon on NS started.

Explain to me how overjustifying=scum.

I feel like Trevor is playing dumb here. At least some of the issues with over-justifying a vote have been pointed out, and frankly, the rationale for why you'd expect it to come from scum is pretty obvious.

lie detected

I feel like this attack against Chevre was contrived.

I hate how BBMolla shows up to vote Chevre and ignores what is actually going on in the game at that moment.

I'm not sure what MattPs motivation was in creating his own list of lurkers to die rather than just going along with Spyrex's death list.

The entire lurking=scum is dumb. Why would you lurk as scum? Posting as scum is a lot easier imo than as town. Also: people are more interested in games they are scum in. No one looks at a game and says, "Nah, I'm not interested in this game I am scum in."

I'm reconsidering my town-read on Trevor after this. He's questioning pretty rational scum-tells far too much and his reasons for doing so are poor.

1) Many people have a much harder time posting as scum than as town, and the reason is simple: as town people can basically post whatever they are thinking, but as scum they have to fake it.

2) Lurking is an effective strategy as scum because people often don't notice lurkers and choose to lynch people for actively scummy play instead, and in normal games getting the town together to lynch a lurker is often tough.

Meaning there are potentially HUGE odds of hitting town right now.

Fear-mongering.

Do you thinking that we should let the lurkers live to end-game?

I think that we need to start lynching from some of the people the counter wagons to the town lynches have been on. If we hit scum, we get insight into the people pushing the other wagons. However, I approve of the plan to off the lurkers, but I think that we should be smart about it. I do not think that post count alone is a reasonable distinguish who should die. For instance, I would not put Zajnet on the death list.

So

Unvote
Vote: Milk

[Zdenek]

In War in Heaven 3, a game of about 40 people, 5 of the 11 players who were inactive to the point of being mod killed and replaced were scum. Here the mechanic is different since players will just be allowed to lurk, but I still suspect that it's something scum will do.

[Zdenek]

Actually, it was about 30 players.

[Zdenek]

In Game of the year, a game of about 50 people, 0 of the 7 lynches so far have been on scum. All of these lynches were wagons that built up very quickly, most went through without a claim. YOu don't think it's suspicious how fast this milk wagon has grown compared to how slow the kondi wagon has been?

Well, the fact that it's been impossible to get Kondi lynched is driving me crazy, but I also see the value in getting rid of lurkers.

[Zdenek]

I'd vote for Kondi.
I don't understand the votes on Fritzler.
I think we need to continue purging the lurkers.

Vote: Lowman

I'm willing to switch if I need to, but I think this is a good choice, since he's been somewhat scummy by showing up and jumping on big wagons, and he was at the bottom of one earlier, so if he flips scum, it will be useful.

[Zdenek]

Are we still doing that lurker list thing for our lynches? Who was next?

^Very lazy,

but yes.

Bleh.

UNVOTE: Zdenek
VOTE: LowMan

Since mod has stated plainly there will be no replacements (and it'd be hard finding someone willing to replace into a 90-page game) getting lynched is my best option for leaving the game.

This account is being retired due to alt-slipping in one of my other ongoing games.

Ugh, I suspected Lowman a lot yesterday, but this probably makes him town, which is super unfortunate, considering he's obviously not going to post at all anymore.

Someone tell me why there are fritzler votes because I don't see it.

Meh, he just unvoted, to get on another big wagon, and that self-vote move is bullshit.I'm still fine with him dying.

I agree with Uber's assessment

What assessment do you agree with?

[Zdenek]

Jackal, I want you to answer my question. What assessment of UberNinja's do you agree with?

[Zdenek]

I don't even care if he is scum

vote: Fritzler

We're not abandoning the purge the lurkers plan.

blah blah blah

OH I'm sorry, did you say something?

We should this piss brained fucktard. He's not going play, and I'm pretty sure that he's aware from other games that if he claims VT and is apathetic people will get a town-read on him (I'm pretty sure that it happened in Consulmaker III, but the game was lost to the crash), so the argument that he's probably town for it is lame.

Zdenek if you are town, I want a Fritzler vote please.

I think that the Frizler wagon is stupid.

[Zdenek]

Weeping Baby Jesus on the cross.

[Zdenek]

Still think the Fritzler wagon is stupid, Zdenek?

No, but that doesn't mean that I understand it.

CALLED IT

(a long time ago)

So why weren't you on the Frizler wagon?

trevor is probtown, bad vote.

VOTE: sykedoc

in accordance with policy, this should be our vote now.

Why do you want to go back to policy when we just had a scum-flip?

Actually, this question to everyone who wanted to go back to policy lynching after Frizler's flip.

Read Zdenek's last couple posts. I'm really mixed, as no scumbuddy would be that retarded to buddy and then rely on someone to save his ass, but it's still incredibly scummy.

Okay Trevor, explain why you thought t ... ]post 2367, callforjudgement"]OK, so I just ISOed manho. His early posts are bad, his late posts are bad, his posts in the middle are pretty good, though. Not confident enough he's scum to join the wagon, but I'm not confident he's town either.

(Oh, and it seems it's Milk who's on my votecount but shouldn't be.)[/quote]
LOL fencesitting.

btw, I think I have an idea on scumteam no. 2. Care to listen?

Sure.

I agree that Spyrex's recent play has been terrible.

Unvote

because Jackal is very unlikely to be scum.

I'm out of time for now, and after the flips, I need to do some reading.

[Zdenek]

you're going to actively go against the flow of town lynch rampage just so you can say "haha he was town and I wasn't on the wagon" if he flips town?

cause explain that to me or you're next mr.

We have scum flips, and I am going to reread some things tomorrow when I get the chance. I have no idea what you want me to explain to you, since you're asking me a question about the future, and I'm not going against the flow of anything.

Read Zdenek's [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4090855]last couple posts. I'm really mixed, as no scumbuddy would be that retarded to buddy and then rely on someone to save his ass, but it's still incredibly scummy.

Okay Trevor, explain why you thought that Frizler was scum and why you refused to do so before he was lynched.

Vote: Fritzler

Just read his iso.

Way before the actual Fritzler wagon.

Telling me to read his ISO is not an explanation of anything.

[Zdenek]

Just from the way these wagons are building and from the way people have strong opinions about lynch order, I'm guessing that exactly one of SpyreX and BBmolla is scum. (And it seems much more likely it's BBmolla.)

What are your reasons for thinking that bbmolla's scum?

[Zdenek]

On the current people being pushed:

The only point about the bbmolla wagon that I think holds water is that that Rhinox was suspicious of him. The points against him dont't really separate him from anyone else.
I think Techno is scum, mostly because of his play since we've had two scum lynches and that fact that Rhinox was suspicious of him is a good poiint.
I am less certain about Spyrex. The fact that he's decided to only post hammers is annoying, and post hammer vote on Fritz is a concern.

Vote: Techno

[Zdenek]

and post hammer vote on Fritz is a concern.

Why is the post-hammer vote on fritz bad?

It's a concern because he was watching the wagon, it seemed like he was planning to hammer, he didn't hammer, but then felt the need to vote after. I think this sequence of events is weird. There are basically two possibilities he miscounted the votes or he was hoping the wagon wouldn't go to completion, but wanted to make sure that it was clear that he was willing to vote Fritz. I can't know which is the case.

On the current people being pushed:

The only point about the bbmolla wagon that I think holds water is that that Rhinox was suspicious of him. The points against him dont't really separate him from anyone else.
I think Techno is scum, mostly because of his play since we've had two scum lynches and that fact that Rhinox was suspicious of him is a good poiint.
I am less certain about Spyrex. The fact that he's decided to only post hammers is annoying, and post hammer vote on Fritz is a concern.

Vote: Techno

And you think as scum I would kill off two people who were supposedly chasing me? (even though they clearly weren't).

My play has been sus lately I agree, but only because I am less confident in my ability to read this game. I have been wrong about every lynch so far.

I would have thought I would be more useful in the final fourteen but I doubt I'll make it or have trust either way now. If you want to lynch me that's fine, because I have no strong tells anymore. Lurker lynch or those connected to the two scum is all I have to go on. I will say though that lynching from connections to the NK's is dumb, as its all WIFOM and scum would rather set townies up than leave a trail of dead bodies that point to them.

Your first question is WIFOM. As to your second point:

Next reads:

++ redff - not a fan of the one-liner posting style but I get the sense from his posts that he's genuinely thinking and questioning, so that gives me a town feel...
+ SleepyKrew - unvoting due to absence gave me a good vibe, I feel like as scum he wouldn't necessarily have bothered to unvote...
+ Rhinox - lots of strategy, and policy votes, but good reasons for both, and I like that the reads he gave in 668 weren't just sheeping other people's suspects...
+ BBMolla - in a game with 50 players and 10 to lynch, I don't think scum would be so bold to throw out the "meh I don't care if I get lynched" line
=+ Zdenek - I agree with his reads particularly elmo, T-bone and Muffin...
= UberNinja - having fun isn't a scum tell; sure Uber could be doing more scumhunting, but since this is a 50-player game, I'm happy to give players who make me laugh leeway at this point, and focus on hunting the non-funny scum instead...
= SpyreX - his playstyle always gives me a baseline pro-town sense. This game he comes off as slightly less engaged than other games I've been in with him but on the other hand the rate of posting this game is crazy so I think that's pretty null right now. Definitely want to wait til the dust settles and see how he plays when we're not posting 25 pages a day
=- Captain Corporal - more please...
- MoS - one post, no content. Dislike the "I'm not going to read anything" approach: @MoS you don't need to read the whole game, just read the last page or so and look for scummy posts there...
- Robotnick2 - first post suggests he is or at least was paying slight attention to the game, so why didn't he give us anything more than that?

Yeah, not keen on this UberNinja wagon.
Of the above players, and yesterday's, I'd be fine with a Robotnick2 wagon if we want to lynch someone low-contributing.

But right now I want to

VOTE: TeChNoWC

for his fence-sitting and buddying. He seems like he's trying to get on everyone's good side, and his posts don't ring sincere to me. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Not sure lynching lurkers will get us anywhere.

I don't mind thinning him and seeing what we get; good chance he is one of the scummy lurkers.

Unvote
Vote: Lowman

This looks like a big contradiction. Like, you just said you didn't think it would get us anywhere but you did it anyways.

VOTE: lowman

Let's lynch the lurkers. let's lynch all the lurkers.

Not sure lynching lurkers will get us anywhere. You feel it is hard to find scum in this setup, yet you think lynching lurkers will help us hit scum?

Still, lowman is a PL loving, wagon jumping, happy to kill town lurker scummy.

I don't mind thinning him and seeing what we get; good chance he is one of the scummy lurkers.

Unvote
Vote: Lowman

This is a bad post.

Do think there was any reason for the NK choices?

I'd be okay with lynching Zoraster, but I don't really want to go back to lynching the lurkers yet.

[Zdenek]

I'd be okay with lynching Zoraster, but I don't really want to go back to lynching the lurkers yet.

Blatant contradiction

It's not a contradiction because thinking that something is acceptable, and wanting to do it, are not the same.

[Zdenek]

Trevor, you still haven't answered my question about your case on Fritzler.

[Zdenek]

Trevor, you still haven't answered my question about your case on Fritzler.

Because I don't feel like explaining to you why someone already dead was scummy.

Were you bussing?

[Zdenek]

Trevor, you still haven't answered my question about your case on Fritzler.

Because I don't feel like explaining to you why someone already dead was scummy.

Were you bussing?

I would say no as both alignments. Dumb question.

I was calling him scum, asking people not voting him to read his ISO and make a read based off it. End of discussion.

So why is it scummy when someone doesn't come to the same conclusion as you?

[Zdenek]

Have I called someone scum for townreading/not voting Spyrex?

I'm not talking about Spyrex. Regarding Fritzler, you said,

Read Zdenek's [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4090855] last couple posts. I'm really mixed, as no scumbuddy would be that retarded to buddy and then rely on someone to save his ass, but it's still incredibly scummy.

[Zdenek]

I've had a family emergency. So I have to go on V/LA.

[Zdenek]

I'm back, I won't have time to get to this today.

[Zdenek]

I'm VT.

[Zdenek]

I'd vote for Kondi.
I don't understand the votes on Fritzler.
I think we need to continue purging the lurkers.

Vote: Lowman

I'm willing to switch if I need to, but I think this is a good choice, since he's been somewhat scummy by showing up and jumping on big wagons, and he was at the bottom of one earlier, so if he flips scum, it will be useful.

I don't even care if he is scum

vote: Fritzler

We're not abandoning the purge the lurkers plan.

blah blah blah

OH I'm sorry, did you say something?

We should this piss brained fucktard. He's not going play, and I'm pretty sure that he's aware from other games that if he claims VT and is apathetic people will get a town-read on him (I'm pretty sure that it happened in Consulmaker III, but the game was lost to the crash), so the argument that he's probably town for it is lame.

Zdenek if you are town, I want a Fritzler vote please.

I think that the Frizler wagon is stupid.

if it were just one post i wouldn't think anything of it but twice looks bad and he misses all the following scum wagons so this is going to be the one i go full force on

If it was so clear that Fritzler was scum, why didn't you ever explain your vote on hm, and why did you attack bbmolla's Fritzler vote?

[Zdenek]

Also, you act as though the fact that I commented about the Fritzler wagon twice is important. Would you have had me ignore UberNinja?

[Zdenek]

it wasn't really clear at all, i did not understand why he was being voted but i hammered just to hammer, as i have done so in multiple other instances

but the reaction of "no we must KILL the LURKERS" ("no zdenek, you are the lurkers." And then zdenek was a lynchee) is one i could see coming from a scumbuddy and i got nothing from you that makes me want to see you live so if you're town make your last day on earth useful

1. Then fuck you for thinking that I am scummy for thinking that his lynch was stupid.
2. I couldn't help that I had a family emergency. You don't know what lurking is, if you think I was lurking before that.

[Zdenek]

I said it in the dead qt, and my thoughts haven't changed.
Too many lynches early gave town a lot of information.
Too few scum kills made it impossible for scum to counter that.

[Zdenek]

I said it in the dead qt, and my thoughts haven't changed.
Too many lynches early gave town a lot of information.
Too few scum kills made it impossible for scum to counter that.

As an example of the power of multiple lynches, Zachtown in the mountains was a 13-3 mountainless setup where town got 2 lynches a day and it ended with a town win in MYLO, so that seems pretty balanced, whereas 12-2 mountainless with normal lynching is scum sided, and you could expect that 12-2 with two lynches a day would be town sided.

Looking at that, In terms of numbers, 7-37, ignoring the angels and mimes, this game with even 2 lynches a day would have probably been town sided, but it's close.

[Zdenek]

I said it in the dead qt, and my thoughts haven't changed.
Too many lynches early gave town a lot of information.
Too few scum kills made it impossible for scum to counter that.

As an example of the power of multiple lynches, Zachtown in the mountains was a 13-3 mountainless setup where town got 2 lynches a day and it ended with a town win in MYLO, so that seems pretty balanced, whereas 12-2 mountainless with normal lynching is scum sided, and you could expect that 12-2 with two lynches a day would be town sided.

Looking at that, In terms of numbers, 7-37, ignoring the angels and mimes, this game with even 2 lynches a day would have probably been town sided, but it's close.

This game averages out at 2 lynches for each kill. It's just that the lynches were pulled to the front to speed up the game.

I really don't think that average lynches has the same effect as weighting the lynches to happen at the start.